Being 'Spiritually Loose' with Susan Pearse

0:02 A listener production. Susan Pearce is a best selling author and a leadership expert who is passionate about conscious leadership. In fact, she developed Australia's first. Mindfulness based leadership program all the Way back in two thousand, which has now been delivered to companies around the world. Outside of her corporate roles. Though, Susan is a woman who has been on a journey of spiritual seeking and self discovery for more than two decades. Her search for the answers of how to live a more fulfilled and connected life have taken her, in her words, around the world, from rave parties in Ibitha to jazz bars in New York, from traditional hula dancing and Hawaii to qualifying as a Condolina yoga teacher in Spain.

0:51 She has had quite some fascinating. Experiences when she says that instead of finding answers, all she found was rules, and instead of joy, she found judgment. So as a result, Susan came up with the term. Spiritually loose to describe her approach to life. She is now sharing her quite fascinating story and offering her spiritually Loose Manifesto as an antidote for the modern world diseases of emptiness, regret, and disappointment. She says, It's okay to be spiritual and loose, humble and confident, patient and intolerant, deep and superficial, and above all, it is perfect to just be you. I absolutely loved this conversation with Susan. She is so full of infectious energy.

1:40 I think that you will find her story just as interesting as I did. Here is my chat with Susan. Susan, Welcome to the Crappy to Happy podcast, hik. It's great to be here, Susan. I read your book Spiritually Loose. You are speaking to a fellow spiritual seeker, so I. Really enjoyed the book. First up, I have to say your book opens with you going to see quite a well known psychic in his backyard in Brisbane. Is that Jason McDonald at Nunda? Yes it was. I've been to that house. I've been to that yard more than once. So I just as I read it, I thought, oh, I know Jason McDonald. I he was my and can I say too, it's interesting that your book opened with that because my seeing Jason McDonald I reckon around the similar age as you. I was about twenty four, I think twenty three twenty four when I first went to see him in the city, actually in Brisbane.

2:38 I was working in the city, and that. Probably was the experience that really cracked me open to this whole idea of psychics and medianship and the para normal. And I've been on a similar journey ever since, although I will say it not quite as intense as yours having read the book. But you saw Jason. Anybody in Brisbane who's seen He's quite well known in Brisbane, and he told you that he couldn't see. Anything for you. What was that experience like for you at that time in your life? And I have to admit it freaked me out. I think, you know. The first thing that came out of my mouth was, oh, my gosh, am I going to die? Because I went with two other friends and one friend of my sister and they came back with all of this information. So when he said to me, I can't see anything in your future, the first thing that I thought of is not going to have a car accident on the way home.

3:30 So I freaked out. And he and but he said to me, you know, the spirits are just not giving me anything. You're a highly intuitive person, Go take your money. So he gave the money back to me, and he said, you can work out your own path. You know, your money's better spent going and having a cup of tea. I can imagine how freaky that would be. Also kind of disappointing because I had the same experience. Everybody was getting these amazing insights and really accurate predictions and I did too, by the way, So kind of a. Kind of a letdown. Yes, it was, and you know, because again it just wasn't the couple of people I went with. But as you know, Jason's got like an amazing kind of reputation. But that clearly was the message for me that day because had I had been given all of the answers to how my life was going to unfolow, I never would have gone on the search.

4:22 So Jason's brilliant. So, Susan, that did set you off on a path, or did it, because you refer to later sort of having a quarter life crisis. Tell me about that. Yeah, that was interesting because I grew up, you know, pretty typical to a lot of you know girls, where we had the whole tick list of all the things that we wanted to, you know, get in place, so you know, find the husband, by the house, you know, establish my career, get a really good job, all of those things. And I had ticked the checklist off to only find my self in a place where I was completely miserable. And it's like it happened to me almost you know, overnight, where I just kind of woke up and nothing made any sense anymore. I was feeling this deep sense of dissatisfaction, yet I couldn't explain why. And it was really that void that got me to you know, quite sort of probably reckless and courageous at that you know, young age of twenty something, where I kind of gave everything up and I went on the search for happiness and meaning. And my first stop was actually, you know, I had been a girl who had saved my money for the house and had done all those traditional things and never really through caution to the wind, I had never been overseas, and so this was my first stop that I wanted to go to New York City. And I think I say in the book that I must

5:53 have been watching too many Sex in the City episodes at the time, because I thought, you know, that's got to be the wearing that wardrobe and doing what those girls do. It has got to be the answer to happiness. So I decided I was going to New York City and happened to find because I had just established my own business, and I happened to find a conference that could also facilitate my way, you know, over there. And it just happened to be that I had accidentally signed up for a conference that was the first dialogue between the Dalai Lama and Buddhist dialoguing with the world's best psychiatrists, psychologists, neuroscientists, all on the nature of the mind. And I think this is where the first piece clicked in just understanding our brains and how they can be our best friends but most of the time our worst nightmare. Yeah that I mean, I think we've all heard of that, those of us who sort of are familiar with, like I'm quite interested in Buddhism and Buddhist psychology and mindfulness, and I think many of us have heard of that conference.

6:54 So that's kind of amazing that you got to be there kind of by fluke. It was amazing, and it was yeah, totally fluky, And you know, this was twenty years ago, just over twenty years ago, and so it really was the first time they went public with you know, brain scanning monks and seeing what goes on in our brains, you know, for the happiest person in the world, what's going on and can we actually use mind training to impact happiness. So yeah, it was like right at the start of when all of this kind of research was emerging, and it was like, really quite funny that a conference that was only sort of supporting my way to get to New York ended up being the conference that changed my life.

7:37 Giving you an excuse basically to hop on a plane and. Justify the money. Absolutely, and let's not forget that you sat behind Richard Gear at that conference. Yes, well, this is the other funny part of it, I guess is when I went to book for this conference, all of the general seating was already booked out, but it was for something and I can't remember, but it was something like two hundred dollars extra you could go as a gold sponsor. So that was a no brainer to just go, Okay, I'm going to sign up for that. And yeah, when I was lining up to you know, the gold sponsors area in front of me, was Richard Gear. Behind me was Goldie Horn. And the real clincher was that on the last day, the organizer came and said His Holiness would love to meet all of the gold sponsors. And so I end up backstage next to Richard Gear and his sisters meeting his Holiness and having some moments with him, which was just extraordinary and again really quite hilarious when you think about how I got there.

8:36 Yeah, but you quickly kind of learned Buddhism wasn't really for you. Where too, next for you? Like you talk about in the book that you've been on a couple of decades search of spiritual seeking, healer hunting, like you've had all sorts of experienced experiences which we will get to. But where did that journey take you next? And for the next you know period? I think, yeah, I think what that really showed me? And you know, interestingly enough, I still go to a Buddhist retreat and I still like love all the principles. And as I was mentioning the whole thing about taming the monkey mind, which is one of in the book, I talk about these thirteen sort of principles of how I live my life, and one of the first ones is around getting out of your head. That Buddhist teaching is still just yes, so really important. But I think the thing that got me is I wanted to dive in even deeper, but kind of saw that unless I was prepared to shave my head and wear robes and give up meat. And this is where I guess the title spiritually loose comes in. I was just searching for something where you could almost you know, have all the spirituality practices, but have them buy design for you and not have to give up joy, not have to give up being wild or any of the things that you wanted to also incorporate in your spirituality.

10:05 So there wasn't necessarily a. Next I then invested in this thing here, but I certainly went on a path of a whole range of things, some of them being things like reiki, sacred dancing, kundalini yoga. I ended up getting into Kundalini dance, yeah, you name it. I've explored astrology, yeah really, crystals and shark crass and pretty much the whole shopping. List of spirituality. I then went on to explore. And at the same time, Susan, you have maintained and continue to maintain I believe, you know, quite a mainstream corporate career.

10:49 How has your spiritual. Journey, I guess, and all of those things that you've been into and tried, how has that supported or complemented the other work. That you do? Because I think there is a perception out there that if you're into that spiritual stuff, that you're a bit of a kind of a hippie out there hugging trees and living off the land. But you are not that. So how do these two things complement each other in your life? Yeah? And they really really do. And it's interesting because I've used a lot of after that conference with the Dalai Lama that was kind of I was always in the leadership space, and that was the missing piece that kind of said to me, we're not going to achieve sustainable change as people unless we really start to work with our.

11:35 Own minds and our hearts. And so then I went on with my business partner to develop the first mindfulness based leadership program in Australia. So all of the principles were still coming with me as I was working in corporations, and now I've had that business for twenty probably twenty five years now, going into the most serious of companies, and I think we're at links in now is in the business world, we are dealing with so much change, We are dealing with so much complexity that the old ways of managing business don't work anymore. Because you know, when you think. About spirituality, that's about how we deal with things that aren't visible and tangible to us. And the business world is also dealing with very similar things and the ability in business to be able to adapt really quickly, which again comes back to the nature of our minds.

12:30 So it's like spirituality and. Business has interconnected anyway. And I think you know the other thing I do is a lot of leadership coaching, and the fact that I am constantly focused on my own self development actually makes me a better coach and mentor for other people as well. One thing that you. Talk about is discovering I don't remember the context, in an energy healing session or something, discovering that your heart was quite closed, like that you had this almost black heart. So tell me about that. What was that like to hear that? What did that mean to you? Did that resonate and I guess then what steps did you take to open your heart? That experience with the healer was like another aha moment like the one I had with Jason McDonald.

13:19 And I was in Byron Bay. It was at the time where I wrote my first book, and I was doing some sort of book signings at a bookstore and there was this poster in the window of this healer. And you know when you just have those moments where your attention gets grabbed by something, and so I've walked into this shop and I've kind of pointed at the picture and said, does that person have any sessions available? Thinking in the back of my mind it's a Saturday. There's no way that they're going to have something that's free. And then the person came out and said, are you looking for a session, come on in here. So it was one of those other things that's kind of meant to be. But as he was doing his energy clearing on my body, I could tell that he was kind of hanging around that area of my heart, and you know, I, with my curiosity, sort of said to him, what's the matter?

14:11 You know, is there something you know wrong there? And he said, oh, no, it's just your heart. I can't see it. And you know, again, I didn't know what to say, because I was like, oh, maybe I didn't have one, just trying to make some awkward jokes there, but he said, no, you've got one, but it's covered by many thick layers. And you know, when I reflect on that, I think for everyone. I was going to say for girls, because I have a daughter, but I have a son as well. That you know, from the earliest of times growing up, we have a whole range of things that make us contract in the heart area or make us cover up, put the walls up, whether that is breakups, whether that's you know, difficulties with friendship groups or whatever that might be.

14:58 And you know, I was just no different. That I had a whole heap of walls that are built up around my heart. And you know, literally as he removed that, I could feel a lightness there. And you know, just in the weeks going on from that, I could feel this thing. I could feel my heart come alive. I could actually feel flooters, all different things that were going on, which was really quite amazing. And I just started you know, when you're feeling that in your body, you just start to bring your attention to a different area. So instead of talking to people through my head, or listening to people through my head. I was actually started to listen to them through my heart, if that kind of makes sense, Just being able to connect with people at a completely different level. And it was just even in interactions, I would, once those walls kept kind of coming down, become more vulnerable in what I would share with people. But also I think again, I just became more grateful for everything that was around me as well.

16:00 I remember, even just walking out of that healing session, it was pouring down rain and I can just remember, like you know, holding my hands up and really just drinking in every rain drop, and it's just like the most simple things, just becoming more grateful for it. But I think one. Of the biggest shifts in heart opening was definitely when I had children. Every mother or every parent knows that feeling where you just haven't experienced anything like it. And my daughter was certainly I you know, say that she was sent to me as my heart opening monitor because she was just and still is the most beautiful, loving girl who was always calling for more love. So I felt like, you know, I sent a lot of angels around me to help with that process, and it's still an ongoing.

16:47 One and I think it is for all of us. And you know, I think what really kind of jumped out and not that well, whether you said it explicitly or not, but we all kind of live in this patriarchal world where we sort of man up, you know, we present with this and where everything is based on this very logical, linear kind of world and way of thinking and doing and behaving and dealing with people. And what you're talking about is very much more this heart scenteredness, and it sounds all very fluffy, but it's very much more feminine, intuitive connected to you know, our true nature, which for various reasons we all kind of shut down to get on in the world.

17:31 Definitely, and I can definitely remember my first career in organization. I think that organization was, you know, ninety five percent men of five percent women, and so of course, as a young woman, you go in and you start copying the male ways of doing things, which, as you say, it's all the logic, it's all the you know, almost putting on this business mask. And that is definitely something that I've seen change. In the world. And the more we can. Get heart scent leaders in positions of power, the more we're not going to see the abuse that's around, the environmental issues that were around you. I'm really quite passionate about that whole heart centered leadership.

18:14 I hope that you're enjoying this conversation and realizing the benefits of positivity in your own life. If you are enjoying the show, please be sure to like and subscribe so that you get notified when you EPPS drop and head on over to Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen and leave us a rating and review Susan, you had some pretty confronting, I would say, personally challenging experiences. I've done meditation retreats, and I did my yoga teacher training, and I see psychics and I read tarot cards and I study astrology, like I'm into all of it. For a clinical psychologists, people find that VeryE but it's actually I'm not the only one, right.

19:02 It's where all psychology is the study of the soul. So you, on the other hand, have done some things like spiritual intimacy and you know Cundolini dancing, Like when I read about it, I think, oh, that's crossing a line for me, Like I don't know that I could go there. It probably confronted me with how it kind of closed. I still am, But what was it like to have those experiences? Pretty mind blowing? And I think again, and this is the thing about when you start almost following the signs or listening very deeply to your intuition, you get put on these paths and you end up at these events that you kind of don't even realize how you signed it up to get there. So one of them was Kundalini yoga, which is a very intensive and very powerful form of yoga.

19:59 And and I often reflect and think I could have just gone, you know, to a one and a half hour class down the hall, you know, down the road, but instead I dived right in and decided to become a Qundalini Yoga teacher, which involved basically a week in Spain, in Spain, yes, no less. And yeah it was. It was grueling. It was you know, sometimes fourteen fifteen hours of these really powerful practices. And you know, I'd love the form of yoga, but it's not for the faint hearted because what a lot of the breathing techniques do is the only way to describe it, is it ends up excavating things out of you. So you know, we all have through our life experiences and you know also generational life experiences.

20:57 We have those things we're conscious about, but then we have those things that are buried deep in our bodies and you know. Also on that subconscious level. And Kundalini Yoga had a way of excavating some of those things, so emotions that I had never even really experienced before or seen before. So yes, it was a very very intensive time that again just showed me the power of what the human body stores for us. Is there any particular experience that you could share to that demonstrate like that what you're talking about there with that deep healing and that kind of removing it at the physical level, because as a powerful mind body connection going on there, right, Like emotions are stored in the body, and you talk about like literally having things excavated from your body. Is there anything that you could share just to demonstrate that.

21:54 Yeah, there were so many, so many kind of experiences. But on the simple side of things that would be even be things like you'd be going through an exercise and then you'd get a really weird pain, you know, just just under your right rib cage or something like that, and then all of a sudden, all of these emotions would come out, like grief and rage and loss, and yeah, all of these emotions that were like really specific to a situation. And sometimes you might see a glimpse of the situation, but other times you just have that emotional kind of experience. And so and this is the thing, and one of the one of my favorite things that the Kundalini, you know, master would say is it's like cleaning out a stinky bin. You don't need to go investigating.

22:44 And you know, when your bin is stinky, you don't go investigating what the smell is, You just clean it out. And so there wasn't a lot of focus in you know, let's line on a couch and work out what happened to you twenty years ago, or what these emotions are. It's more how can we just connect with them and let them go by continuing to do the movement and the mantra and the meditation that was going on. Yeah, I really like that, And I guess as a psychologist, you know, I'm very much of the opinion that we need to emotion to store in our body. Like all of this traditional psychology of talking therapies, it's all. That's all news. We actually need to clear things out of our body, but it's often really challenging to know how to do that.

23:28 So that's why I was interested. For you to share that, because I think there are these modalities out there that can really help to facilitate people's healing at quite a deep level, as you say, without ever having to go and sit and talk about it or analyze it or understand it, which is what we cerebral Christians who live in this logical world. We want to analyze everything, and sometimes you don't actually have to do that, but equally challenging confronting experience, though by all accounts for the way you describe. It, it is. And you know, these classes are just held very strongly by the facilitators, But if they weren't, or if you were just kind of doing this yourself and it happened you were, you were kind of there were moments where I thought I'd gone a little bit crazy with things, because you know, these things just coming out of your body.

24:20 But I think you know again, and I love to hear what you're saying. And I also know a lot of psychologists who are merging all of these pasts and I. Think it's amazing. There's a place for all of it, but just this thing about feeling our feelings, and essentially that's what was coming out in the Kundlini excavations, just feelings that I couldn't explain. But what we'd normally do in life is trying to push them down. And you know, there were times in that yoga where I'd have this pain I could you can just tell something's about to happen, and I'd want to all of a sudden my mind to be like, oh, you need to go to the bathroom, or you need to go and get a drink and try and break the process, because I think as human beings were really conditioned to doing that. We feel something, how can we stuff it down? But you know, obviously the only way through it is to really experience it.

25:15 But that takes a lot of courage. It really does. And you know, kudos because some of the things you talk about, I. Think, oh, no, I wouldn't. I wouldn't. I don't know if I'd be doing that one. But you also admit that sometimes you didn't read the flyer and you just ended up at these places. Totally my you know, again, because the Kundalini intensive was in Spain. I was picturing something really quite different, like anything i'd been to in Europe before usually had a four hour siesta and just you know, a little bit here and a little bit there. And so I very naively signed up for that thinking it was going to be a retreat more than it was going to be an intensive kind of practice like that.

25:57 But yeah, clearly I was meant to. Be there, obviously. And you also talk about I was really I loved that you mentioned that you have this kind of partner, this your friend Rachel, who goes with you, you know, to a lot of these on a lot of these adventures that you have had. So that must be really nice, I guess to have that kind of a close friend that will, you know, jump in on anything that you want to do, or she'll take you or you'll take her, and yeah, and it's definitely. Yeah, there's definitely been times where she's led me down different paths as well. And we only met. Just at a key part in my journey before I started exploring all these different things, and it was one of those meetings where we had the same thing. We were both kind of high in the corporate career type of space. We had both had issues with hardening hearts and wanting to expand that more. And I think she was a participant at a conference I was speaking at and straight into each other. She won the Lucky Door Prize, which was my book, and you know, it was just like the universe was just going to you need to Yeah, you need to venture on this together. And to this day we often say to each other, you wouldn't want to be doing this without someone else that can basically understands your experience and can keep you sane, because if you are the only one experiencing some of the stuff that we experienced after Cundolini, then as I said before,

27:28 you would definitely have times where you thought you were going mad. Can we talk about the fact that after that intense week that you went back twice? Yes, I know, like such a And I think that's something that Rachel and I both share in common. We're not afraid of the dark work. And that's the thing with you know, spirituality, there's the light work, the meditating to the light, and then there's digging dark in your shadow type of work. And both of us, even though we find it grueling, we have a little bit of an attraction to it as well. I blame my scorpion nature for that. The title of the book, Susan is spiritually Loose. Can you explain what does it mean to be spiritually loose?

28:10 After all that you've learned, that's what you've come up with? What is it? Yeah, the discussion. Actually, that title just came out of my mouth. I was away with a group of girlfriends on what we affectionately call a goddess weekend. And you know, there are always weekends where there is a lot of joy, there's a lot of fun, there's a lot of kind of pushing the boundaries, just completely being yourself, you know, more than anything. And one of the girls in the group, who's also a psychologist, she was saying, you know, I just feel really guilty. You know, I go and meditate with rimbochets, I do all this spiritual stuff. I've got my psychology practice, but you know, I've also got this wild side. And I just just came out of my mouth to say, that's so so to why I'm spiritually loose, And basically, what it means is that there's no rules around spirituality. And I think this is the thing that kept me searching that every time I found a tradition I could belong in, it always threw me out because it had too many rules, it had too much of an external guru telling me what I need to do in my life. And so spiritually loose is very much about designing your own spirituality based on your own intuition, based on your own rules, and also the acknowledgment that you are your own guru. There's not a guru outside

29:40 of you who has you know, who is the authority on your life. And I think way too many times we are outsourcing that part of our life to someone else, and we're walking away from spirituality because we can't conform to these strict rules. And I say, yeah, your own guru, make up your own rules, and you still can be spiritual as well as being joyful, being wild, doing whatever you want. Basically, Yeah, I love that as well. And I also can relate that to that idea that people are constantly looking outside themselves for answers, whether it be and you talk about this as well, like from a young age, I need to do this dart, I have to eat this particular way. I can't get my baby to sleep. I've got to follow, you know, this book and this program. Like, we constantly look outside of ourselves, and I think that is largely because we have we struggle with uncertainty, you know, we struggle with not being able to plan and predict and control every little thing in our lives. So we look for somebody to tell us, well, this is what you need to do, and this is how you do it, and this is how you get to the outcome that you want, which is really just led to us being completely disconnected, yes, from our own intuition, inner knowing, And so that's what this is really about, isn't it all of these things?

31:06 It sure is. And you know, this is the thing exactly as you say that, the more we listen externally, we've stopped the connection to listening to our intuition. Now, intuition only thrives and becomes bigger when we establish the line to it and we use it all the time. And you can't do that when you're distracted by all of the noise around you. And so I think, yes, listening to external sources, but also the busyness that exists in people's minds, you know, seventy thousand thoughts a day, twelve thousand internal conversations. How can you even hear your gut or your intuition when you've got that much radio interference going on? So and you know, this is again what the book talks about.

31:54 All the answers are actually within. You've got your own map for how you can get to your own device life, which is going to be different to your neighbors', partner's friends. You've got all the answers here, but there's too much noise and there's too much distraction for most people to actually access it. Yeah, I totally agree, which is why I'm a big fan of meditation and stillness. But I also equally understand that that's really challenging for people because it's if you've never sat in meditation. I've taught meditation. For a long time, and you know, with my clients, as I start with three minutes, and that's literally the most that most people can handle in the very beginning. But it's a skill that you have to kind of cultivate and develop because it's.

32:38 Not our natural state. Absolutely, but I totally agree that's where you connect to, you know, to something deeper. That's where you get to the answers. I agree. In all of my leadership programs, I teach very small moments of mindfulness to get integrated in your day. So if you don't have the time for twenty minutes on the cushion twice a day, then it's about the moments where you can become present. But the other thing is, and again you know sometimes we stop doing some of these things, is that there are different ways to actually train presence outside of meditation. So one for me is just more time in nature. And for a lot of us, as busy people, we're getting bound by concrete. We're not really spending the time that you know, generations before did out in nature. But I think everyone would agree that when you are walking along the beach, when you are walking in a forest, then your brain has a rest and it has it naturally comes into that kind of present state. And a lot of people will say, I feel like I've had a holiday just after that kind of nature soak. But the other thing that I'm doing a lot of at the moment is just service. So whether that is volunteering, doing simple tasks that serve other people.

33:58 I had just forgotten how much much that trains our presence as well. So there's all these things that the research says contribute to happiness. And yeah, that that thread for me is it gets us focused, and it gets us more present. It gets us out of ourselves and our own sort of petty minded often you know, sort of very self centered concerns. Yeah, Susan, I totally get the whole You are your own guru. Like you, all of the answers are within. I also believe that we sort of have to take our own path and go and explore all of those options. Like we don't have to go to the extent that you did necessarily, but it's in the search and the you know, we take from all of these different ideas and modalities or traditions or practices what is relevant and useful for us. So I guess, you know, I just wanted to highlight that that it's easy to say you your own guru. But I think also it's just about but it's okay to go looking absolute, no, to take only what is helpful.

35:09 Resonates is that the message. That's totally true. And I think you know, I would not if you rewind back to the days with Jason McDonald and I wouldn't have been able to walk out of there and go, okay. On my own guru. Yes, I'm intuitive, and like, now I've got it all sorted. It is in the search, and I often say it's reading, it's talking to people, it's listening to podcasts that magnetizes a truth within you. So it was interesting my sister. And this is the idea of writing the book, because sometimes people go, well, you're saying you're your own guru, but then you're writing your self help book. What I'm doing is sharing my story that hopefully that will magnetize something in someone else. And my sister read it recently and she said, oh, I've decided to do this practice.

35:57 I'm going to do the opposite of everything I've ever done before. And I went, oh, okay, She guys, I got that from the book. And I said, I didn't say that in the book, and she goes, no, but in the book, you're saying that everyone needs to develop their own exercises and their own paths and the things that they're going to explore. And that's really the thing. Read, listen, experience, but. Do it to magnetize what your intuition knows is the truth for you. Yeah. I really like that Susan, are you able to share with us. So from all of the things that you have learned, all of the traditions that you've studied, and the gurus that you've trained under, what now is your regular Like you just talked about service, but what's your sort of regular practice for staying connected to your authentic self?

36:49 Yeah, it's a range of things. There are these kind of thirteen principles that are my principles for how I live my life. So that's things from you know, just getting out of my head and reminding myself that you know, when I'm overthinking, when I'm too busy up here, that's not going to lead to anything. It's about things as you highlighted, like you know, leading with your heart, leading your life with joy at the front of it as well, and not kind of you know, a lot of the time we just delay joy till when we're retired, or when we have our annual holiday or when we have a weekend away. So I've got about thirteen principles that are the things for how I live my life. But staying connected a few other things for me as well. And it's doing something in the morning which reminds you of your connection, and this changes for me all the time. So I have a little bit of a morning routine that involves some yoga, it involves some meditation, it involves some music, but it changes up.

38:01 Like this week, I've been doing it more out in nature and through walking. But often I think, you know, we can wake up and just roll into our day. It's kind of like the first thought is what's on the to do list? Have a cup of coffee, and where like bang straight into motoring through our day. I think if you can do something at the start of the day that reminds you of your connection, you're more likely to stay connected for the rest of the day. So that's something that I always do. Sometimes it might be a minute, sometimes it might be half a day. Yeah, and I would concur And I have practiced meditation, all sorts of you know, mindfulness meditation, but all sorts of other weird hippie meditations as well. And I have really been focused recently, probably just in the last few months.

38:48 I'm really getting back into that regular routine because I agree it makes me feel more myself, more connected more. I don't know, I don't know if aligned is the word just aligned with like who I am what I'm about and connected to something bigger than me, like connected to the universe, call it universe, God, the Source, whatever it is, but just connected to something that's bigger. And I feel a lot more like I'm doing life in a way that is supported and you know, it's not just me trying to might make my way in the world. Like I notice more synchronicities, I notice more coincidences. I notice more things just happen to fall into place, like all of these little magical things start to happen.

39:33 And I think the more that you can. Acknowledge that, the more they tend to show up in the world. As weird as it sounds, it is true. You mentioned before about you know, the world is so uncertain, so we look for these things to grab onto. Most of those things we're grabbing onto externally, they're all uncertain as well. But you know, as a meditation practitioner, you would concur that when we go still and we go inside, we get to that place that feels stable, that feels certain, that feels grounded. And to me, that's just a reminder at the start of the day that anytime I start to feel the chaos or you get anxious about uncertainty or whatever it might be, You'll always know you've got that place that you can return to. And I don't think there is any other place that we can be in control of and is within ourselves for that certainty.

40:29 Yeah, totally agree, Susan. I really enjoyed reading your book. It is some of it is. It's really interesting, it's hilarious. You've done a fantastic job, and I really appreciate you sharing because I think everybody who is interested in that kind of thing, and maybe even people who aren't, will really enjoy it and get something out of it. So thank you for being here today. Susan's new book, Spiritually Loose, is out now in all bookstores. You can find out more about Susan's work at her website Susanpierce dot com. In other news, this week, I am running a free confidence masterclass and if you miss the live event, if it's too late for you to join, you can always catch the replay.

41:18 And if you want to make sure that. You never miss these free events that I offer, can I suggest that you get yourself on my mailing list. No spam, I promise, I'm not organized enough to spam. Anybody by email, or be sure to be following me on social media. I'm cast Done, underscore XO, on Instagram and TikTok. I usually post about what I'm doing there. You can join my mailing list on my website castdone dot com and I'll put the link down in the show notes. If you love the show, please do share with your friends, leave us a rating and a five star review. It really does help us to get into the ears of more listeners and spread the crappy to Happy message. If there is a topic you would like me to cover, hit me up by email hello at castone dot com a week and I cannot wait to catch you on the next episode of Crappy to Happy Listener