Breaking free from self-limiting beliefs with Maria Thattil

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A listener production.

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Today, I want to introduce you to one of the

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most delightful human beings I've had the opportunity to meet

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on this show. She's smart, humble, kind, and she is

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passionate about using her voice to inspire others. Maria Fattila

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was propelled into the spotlight when she was crowned Miss

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Universe Australia in twenty twenty. She then went onto place

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in the top ten of the international competition in twenty

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twenty one, and was only the third woman of color

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to represent Australia in the pageant's sixty nine year history.

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Maria is the queer child of South Asian immigrants, and

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she grew up in suburban Melbourne, so she knows what

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it is like to struggle with belonging. She now is

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a fierce activist for social causes, and she uses her

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platform to champion critical social justice issues including anti racism,

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diversity inclusion, mental health, and jeni equality. Like I said,

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she is also a delight. She invited me for dinner

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at her house, and if I didn't live in London

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and she lives in Melbourne, I would have already taken

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her up on that.

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I really think that.

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You are going to love Maria just as much as

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I do.

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Here is that conversation. Maria, Welcome to the Crappy to

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Happy Podcast.

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Thank you so much for having me.

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You've been just such a radiant ray of sunshine since

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I've just started chatting to you, so I'm very excited

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to be here.

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I'm thrilled to have you. I speak to the most

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interesting people on this show. I'm very fortunate, but I

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would have to say you are my first Miss Universe,

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so I'm feeling quite honored.

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Oh, I feel very very special being the first of

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Miss Universe on your podcast. Hope, Hope, I just make

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you very excited to speak to more Miss Universes after this.

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Indeed, I'm sure you will, so Maria on that, I

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guess you know, on the face of it, anybody looking

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at you publicly, you are obviously beautiful.

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Miss Universe.

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Got into the top ten of the Missed Universe like

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globally is my understanding, right. You have now written a book.

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You are highly educated. You are like kicking goals in

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some you know, big spaces in the world. Anybody looking

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at you would just go wow, what an accomplished, confident

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young woman. But clearly it hasn't always been that way

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for you. You had to overcome your own internal obstacles

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to get to where you are now, which is the

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topic of your new book, Unbounded, And I was fascinated

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to read your story and really excited to talk to

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you about that.

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So can we just start with Maria?

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What was your experience like I guess, you know, growing

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up as a South Asian child of immigrants, suburban Melbourne,

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sort of one foot in each of two very different cultures.

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How was that for you as a child.

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Yeah, well, I'll stop by saying that's a very generous,

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very very generous introduction to your audience, So thank you, Cass.

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I guess when I on the face of it, to

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be in miss universe Australia, that in itself is such

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a big deal as a South Asian child of immigrants,

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because you know, I grew up in the nineties and

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the very early two thousands, and so at the time

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diversity wasn't just celebrated, it was kind of only ever

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really seen through a lens of super toxic caricatures or

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exaggerated stereotypes. And so the way that I experienced the

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world was I'd go to school, and I so desperately

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wanted to fit in with my peers who were you know,

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if they were white, they were Aussie.

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You know, that was it.

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But I'd go home and I was surrounded and immersed

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in really rich culture, from food, music, clothes, the accent

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and languages that my parents spoke. But to me, it

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felt like an anchor as a child, because it was

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like the thing that was stopping me from really fitting

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in with my peers. And so you go to school

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and the way that people interpret you is through your skin,

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and so at the time, approved from the Simpsons was

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probably the most prominent representation we had, so I would

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get everything from you know, okay, does your dad own

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a seven eleven? Does your mum with a red dot?

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Do they bob their heads when they talk? And that's

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how people understood you. And when you're a kid, you think, okay,

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something must be wrong with me, because otherwise people wouldn't

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be saying it. You know, you're a naive, trial like mind.

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And I also internalized a lot of these sensibilities. So

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it made me think that in order to be Australian,

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I needed to shed my ethnicity, even though that makes

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me me that's my rich roots. But I thought, I've

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got to part ways with that if I want to

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belong and to fit in and be Australian enough. And

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so it really caused a divide between my family and I.

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When I was growing up, my cousins who are so

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close to stop speaking to them. I started, you know,

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bleaching my skin with products that, sadly to the day,

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is on the market, and it was all kinds of

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things like going blonde, wearing blue eye contacts. And at

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the time I didn't realize it, but I was trying

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to wear skin that wasn't mine because you know, growing

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up as a South Asian child of immigrants, you think

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that you need to be somebody else to be good enough.

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And I think that message of being enough, I was

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bound to so many beliefs in other areas, like you know,

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to do a sexuality with faith, things like that. That

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just basically the underlying message was here's a blueprint. If

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you don't fit it, you ain't it. So that's what

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it was like. I think I spent a lot of

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time trying to chameleon myself into a lot of different

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spaces and it makes me really sad to look back on.

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But with the book, I wrote about it because I

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think there are going to be a lot of people

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who read it, and not just kids. I think adults

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and people will read it and they will give themselves

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permission to unbind themselves from those beliefs.

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Well, you're talking about there, that whole if I'm this,

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I'm not enough is so like you said, for you,

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it was culture, there was sexuality. Obviously we haven't even

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talked about the fact that your dad was a former

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Catholic Norist and that whole. Like I mean, I went

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to Catholic school, and so I all that original sinner

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and you're just born as a sinner, and you know

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you spend your life trying to get over that.

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You would remember the chapter chapter two in the book.

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You remember something I said about prayers. How I was like,

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why are we saying this?

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Why am I saying? I'm a kid, you.

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Know, and reciting reciting the prayers, also not even knowing

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what the prayers really mean, which it's just auto pilot.

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And I also on that I used to work a

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lot in well, not that you necessarily needed to work

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a lot in Asian countries, but I just used to

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travel back and forth to Japan, career, Taiwan, places like

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that in my twenties for my work, and I used

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to see that widening the skin, widening products like all

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over the shells always seemed to me, it just seemed like,

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how odd that all of the white girls so desperately

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worked brand and all of the brown girls apparently just

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liken't torturing themselves to try to be well.

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I think, you know, there's one thing, It doesn't matter

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where in the world you are, but skin tone is

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weaponized for social privilege, and within Asian communities and brown

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communities like ours, there's a phenomenon called colorism, where social

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privilege is allocated to those with fairer skin because you know,

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historically those with fairer skin. You know, India, for example, colonized,

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a lot of those communities colonized, so there were a

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lot of anglocentric ideas about beauty. And so when you

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come to countries like this, being darker typically has been

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associated with being able to holiday and this and that

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and the other. But also there's beauty standards which change

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all the time. You know, what's in vogue today won't

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be that tomorrow. And I just think the message for

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so many people always is if you do this, you'll

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be beautiful enough. If you do that, you'll be good enough,

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pure enough, this enough. And that's the whole point of

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this book. It's to get people to identify that and go, actually,

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I'm not buying this and whatever I've got, that's enough.

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It's good enough, so I think.

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But it was only through these experiences that I was

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able to unpack and understand my own identity.

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Really, so I.

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Work with women across all ages and this concept, this

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whole sense of not being enough, like that for many

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people continues throughout their life live and are still struggling

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and you know, jumping through hoops and trying to fix

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themselves and change themselves in order to be enough, well

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into their forties, fifties and beyond. So it's actually quite impressive,

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Maria that you have come to like you have sort

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of unpacked this, and you really have really unpacked this and.

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Work this out on your own at the age that

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you have.

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I'm curious to know what was the in the meantime,

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What were the things that you were doing or trying

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to do in order to overcome that not enoughness, Like

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what were some of the things or the paths that

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you went down in life to try to be enough

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to prove yourself.

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I can very distinctly pinpoint when it started changing for

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me in my twenties, and I really value your opinion,

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I think, your professional opinion, because I know you've read

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the book and so you know I have unpacked it,

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and so I think for me, you know, yes, it

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was years of I guess, subscribing to really really really

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self limiting beliefs based on racism and homophobia and a

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lot of religious dogma, a lot of it, and another

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things as well in terms of you know, I went

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to UNI, I did super well at UNI. You know,

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was then expected to oh, are you going to do

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a PhD? Are you going to do the corporate job?

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And so the further along I started going down this

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path based on Okay, this is what people expect me

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to do and be the unhappier I was. And it

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was in twenty nineteen where I sort of hit a

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bit of a crossroads and I really think of this

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chapter in my life as being the turning point, which

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ironically was when everything fell apart. And this is where

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I hope if you're listening to this ironically or in

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the Crappy to Happy podcast, really really reevaluate and just

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open your mind up to thinking of that really crappy moment,

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because it could be the thing that changes everything.

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So I was twenty six years old.

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I was living with my then partner, who I have

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a lot of love and respect for till this day.

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We are not together anymore, but he's a good man.

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It just didn't work out, and I was closeted and

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very confused, and I was very unhappy in my corporate

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job as well, and five figures in debt, like a

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lot of debt. I just had no financial literacy, no

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idea what I wanted to do, and I was constantly

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spending money on things to buy other people's pet of me.

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When we moved into this great apartment, Oh right, yep,

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I'll put the amazing marble coffee table on my credit card,

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just because I want people to look like I have

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it together right. And so that eventually just led me

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into a very bad financial place, and I just felt

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in my gut that it was time for the relationship

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to end. I felt it for a while, but got

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the courage and that ended, and I moved back home

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with my parents with debt and a job that I hated,

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and I literally moved into the corner room of their

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house that was so small that all it fit was

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my bed and a lambshade on the floor, and I

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had two of my brother's wardrobes in there. So my

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brother often jokes, you were sleeping in my wardrobe, and like,

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for me, it was just this point of what am

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I doing? However, I goten to this point what is next?

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But one thing I was starting to do was create

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content online. And it wasn't a time when social media

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was a thing and people were getting paid all the time.

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It was just starting to come up. But I used

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to love putting out beauty content just for the fun

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of it. I just enrolled in makeup qualification and at

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the time I had also graduated from a master's degree

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with first class honors. And so while I was doing

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that makeup certification, a lot of people roll their eyes

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at me and they were like, oh, like, you're gonna

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be a makeup girl.

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Like what are you doing. You're at Melbourne UNI, why

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are you doing that sort of thing?

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And even my friends, you know, some of them didn't

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understand the posting content online. They thought it was vain

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or vapid, but for me it brought joy. Like I

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was creating all these creative makeup looks and I was

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just doing it, putting it out there, and slowly I

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started integrating messages about diversity and a lack of it

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in the beauty industry, and slowly, slowly it started to

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attract a community of people who were like, oh my god,

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me too. I haven't felt heard and that's what I think.

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I'm so glad someone's saying it. And it was almost

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like social media was this place where I had I

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didn't need anyone's permission to say the thing or do

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the thing that made me happy. And the more I

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did it, the more I attracted it community. And suddenly

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I started to think, actually.

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Where can I push this? Where can I do this?

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And it was tough because a lot of people in

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my corporate job at the time kind of look down

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on it a little bit and it was a bit condescending.

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But I had a.

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Vision for it, albeit it wasn't as big as what

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I'm doing now. I just thought I can grow it

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and then when I have a platform, I can talk

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to people about these issues and how great would that be?

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So I think it was kind of having a space

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to slowly start doing my things safely, and when it

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started to just really like spark my soul. So I

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guess for anyone who's listening, and if you're a little

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bit lost and you're like, what do I do? Try everything,

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whether it's journaling, maybe you post something online, maybe you

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take a cooking class, and if it starts to spark joy,

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just follow it one foot in front of the other,

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just follow that thing and just be open to where

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it leads you. I didn't know my stuff would lead

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me here when I was doing MEKEU qualification. I want

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to be a beauty blogger back in the day, but

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here we are doing all this other stuff. So I

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think that's the power of following what sparks you.

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I think there is so much in what you just said.

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First of all, you know, achieving at university, relationship that

279
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looks great on the outside, lovely apartment.

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I think many.

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People find themselves in exactly the same place that you

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found yourself. Mare Like, on the outside it all looks

283
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so amazing, amazing, such a shiny life. I've been there

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in my twenties, and it takes courage, like it really

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does take some courage to walk away from something that

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you know, people will look at you and go, well,

287
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what why, like what what's how can you not be

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how can you not be happy? And the other thing

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I guess is that you know, even putting stuff out online.

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I mean, like you said, social media then perhaps wasn't

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what it is now, But in fact, what you're talking

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about is probably really the best of social media.

293
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Isn't it like that when it was really just green

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and everyone was.

295
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Positive and happy in community.

296
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Now everybody's just ripping each other away.

297
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It's a bit, it's evolved a little, but it wasn't

298
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nice the time, and it was like the era of

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like beauty tutorials and it was, but it's so true.

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It's like, and you're talking about courage, It's like, I

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00:15:15.799 --> 00:15:18.120
know so many people have that where they're in the

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life that's comfortable and it's comfortable enough, right, Like it's

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comfortable enough. It's really freaking hard to walk away from

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a person you love and a life you are kind

305
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of like okay, I'm okay here, you know, for the unknown.

306
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And it's really scary to put yourself out there on

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social media in a time when one or like to

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put yourself out there on any activity, especially if those

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around you are kind of going, what are you doing?

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Like this isn't you what are you doing? So I

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think it does take courage. But do you know what

312
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was scarier to me? I think this is what pushed me.

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And I think a lot of people like, maybe if

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you can not wait till it gets to this point,

315
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I think this is a really great tip. But for me,

316
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it just got to the point where I was starting

317
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to get so miserable that the misery was scarier to

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00:16:03.720 --> 00:16:07.559
me than people judging me. Like I was so scared

319
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of looking back with regrets. I knew that the pain

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00:16:10.679 --> 00:16:13.519
of regret was going to be so much worse than

321
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the fear of what if you know, what if I

322
00:16:16.399 --> 00:16:17.440
just try something different?

323
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So I just had to change. Yeah, I had to.

324
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I was really unhappy.

325
00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:25.000
What led you to applying for Miss Universe?

326
00:16:25.600 --> 00:16:28.559
Well, truthfully, it was never something I thought I would do,

327
00:16:29.399 --> 00:16:32.240
just because I guess I had my own misconceptions about it,

328
00:16:32.320 --> 00:16:35.279
my own and my own internalized misogyny like let me

329
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just put my hand up and call myself out. My

330
00:16:37.519 --> 00:16:40.039
own internalized misogyny meant that I thought, oh, it's just

331
00:16:40.080 --> 00:16:44.320
a beauty pageant, and therefore I blanketed that perception to

332
00:16:44.399 --> 00:16:46.480
all the incredible women that go through it as well.

333
00:16:46.840 --> 00:16:48.919
And then the year before me, there was.

334
00:16:48.840 --> 00:16:52.039
A woman who won in twenty nineteen, an Indian Australian

335
00:16:52.120 --> 00:16:56.559
lawyer named Pria Serrau. She was Miss Universe Australia. And

336
00:16:56.600 --> 00:16:59.480
so when I saw one, an Indian woman to a lawyer,

337
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I was like, like, oh my god, maybe I could

338
00:17:02.679 --> 00:17:04.920
do it, you know, because at that point she was

339
00:17:04.960 --> 00:17:07.839
only the second woman of color to represent Australia in

340
00:17:07.920 --> 00:17:10.640
the pageant's sixty eight year history. I was the third.

341
00:17:10.799 --> 00:17:13.079
I was the third and sixty nine years. So when

342
00:17:13.079 --> 00:17:16.160
I saw her do it, because she was something different,

343
00:17:16.200 --> 00:17:18.200
it made me kind of go, well, maybe I could

344
00:17:18.240 --> 00:17:21.000
do it differently too, and maybe I can make people think,

345
00:17:21.119 --> 00:17:23.720
you know, differently about it. And there were people in

346
00:17:23.759 --> 00:17:25.519
my job I remember when I was a finalist who

347
00:17:25.559 --> 00:17:27.359
sort of said your pastor remarks like.

348
00:17:27.279 --> 00:17:29.400
But you're a feminist, you're smart, why are you doing it?

349
00:17:30.640 --> 00:17:32.880
My answer to them is, if you look at how

350
00:17:32.960 --> 00:17:36.200
much impact I'm having in my career now versus when

351
00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:40.680
I was in a corporate job, That's my answer. I

352
00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:43.119
did it because I knew, actually, I can take something

353
00:17:43.160 --> 00:17:47.559
with patriarchal roots and maximize it to serve this purpose

354
00:17:47.880 --> 00:17:48.880
of serving.

355
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Others and impacting others.

356
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And so it was a no brainer for me because

357
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you know what, back then and even to this day,

358
00:17:56.200 --> 00:17:59.319
no one is you know, in twenty nineteen, no one

359
00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:02.559
was running to give a woman of color or anything

360
00:18:02.799 --> 00:18:05.000
like that, to give her a platform like that and

361
00:18:05.000 --> 00:18:08.119
say you you're going to be an author, a TV presenter,

362
00:18:08.440 --> 00:18:10.599
big on social media, you're going to go into acting.

363
00:18:11.319 --> 00:18:14.839
Have you seen people like me on magazine covers often

364
00:18:15.039 --> 00:18:17.240
and doing all the things that I'm doing. It's like

365
00:18:17.440 --> 00:18:20.200
no one's rushing to hand the stuff out. So for me,

366
00:18:20.759 --> 00:18:23.200
if I see an opportunity, I'm going to take it

367
00:18:23.240 --> 00:18:25.759
and I'm going to run with it. So that's what

368
00:18:25.839 --> 00:18:27.880
Miss Universe was to me. Thank you, That's what Miss

369
00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:29.799
Universe was. And that's what you know, a lot of

370
00:18:29.799 --> 00:18:32.759
people will roll their eyes at young women or men

371
00:18:32.799 --> 00:18:35.240
who go on reality shows, but look at someone like

372
00:18:35.279 --> 00:18:38.480
Abby Chadfield who went on the Bachelor, But look at

373
00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:40.599
what she does now. So I think again, it's that

374
00:18:40.880 --> 00:18:44.640
step away from that judgment. Don't judge yourself don't judge others,

375
00:18:44.680 --> 00:18:46.279
don't judge platforms, and.

376
00:18:46.240 --> 00:18:48.480
When you're open minded, you never know what will happen.

377
00:18:49.000 --> 00:18:52.599
So true, and I think people still, you know, I

378
00:18:52.640 --> 00:18:55.079
think about Abby Chatfield and the work that she's doing

379
00:18:55.279 --> 00:18:57.960
and the career that she has, and there are still

380
00:18:58.039 --> 00:19:01.759
people who judge it. And I think that again, it

381
00:19:01.799 --> 00:19:04.680
reflects so much more on the people doing the judging. Yeah.

382
00:19:04.799 --> 00:19:13.079
No, it was like oh yeah, yeah, definitely, yes, oh yeah.

383
00:19:13.079 --> 00:19:14.279
There wasn't really a question in that.

384
00:19:15.359 --> 00:19:17.839
Wow. I'm like, you could not have said a truer statement.

385
00:19:18.160 --> 00:19:20.240
How did your life change then, Maria?

386
00:19:20.559 --> 00:19:23.240
I mean you won and oh you won in the

387
00:19:23.240 --> 00:19:28.680
middle of a pandemic like we were in lockdown, you

388
00:19:28.680 --> 00:19:29.359
were in Melbourne.

389
00:19:29.400 --> 00:19:31.839
I wasn't quening for you because let me tell you,

390
00:19:31.839 --> 00:19:33.400
it wasn't a good time down here.

391
00:19:34.039 --> 00:19:35.279
No Queensland.

392
00:19:35.319 --> 00:19:39.359
We're pretty tough with the borders. But we managed within Queensland.

393
00:19:39.359 --> 00:19:42.640
We actually, you know, we were fine. We were living

394
00:19:42.799 --> 00:19:46.279
life as usual. All the sympathy to you guys down

395
00:19:46.279 --> 00:19:49.039
in Melbourne. But you you went through miss Universe during.

396
00:19:49.880 --> 00:19:52.759
Lockdown and you know what, guys, the full scoop is

397
00:19:52.799 --> 00:19:55.240
in the book. But I will tell you this, having

398
00:19:55.359 --> 00:19:58.480
Miss Universe to sort of strive for in lockdown, and

399
00:19:58.519 --> 00:20:00.839
also let's not ignore the pre Yes, I was in

400
00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:03.039
Melbourne and it was the most lockdown place, but I

401
00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:06.039
had the privilege of all of my loved ones were

402
00:20:06.039 --> 00:20:09.480
healthy and nobody I knew passed.

403
00:20:09.240 --> 00:20:10.200
Away or got sick.

404
00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:13.240
We all kept our jobs, and I think there are

405
00:20:13.240 --> 00:20:15.279
a lot of people who were faring a lot worse.

406
00:20:16.240 --> 00:20:18.240
But for me, I just felt very grateful to have

407
00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:23.119
Miss Universe as my motivator because my competition was pushed

408
00:20:23.160 --> 00:20:26.240
back till October twenty eighth of that year, and so

409
00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:30.039
the night I won Miss Universe Australia, it was actually

410
00:20:30.079 --> 00:20:32.039
only twenty four hours that we had been out of

411
00:20:32.079 --> 00:20:35.039
the big lockdown, So I literally came out of lockdown

412
00:20:35.319 --> 00:20:38.720
the next day went to the final and it's like

413
00:20:39.640 --> 00:20:42.160
you almost the Uniforst Australia, but it was. It was

414
00:20:42.200 --> 00:20:45.359
really tough because I was competing virtually, so I literally

415
00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:48.200
was at home in the corner room, mom, dad, my dog,

416
00:20:48.279 --> 00:20:50.839
my brother at home, couldn't go to the gym, couldn't

417
00:20:50.880 --> 00:20:51.200
get my.

418
00:20:51.200 --> 00:20:53.119
Hair done in the corner, in the corner room to.

419
00:20:53.119 --> 00:20:55.000
Your parents, and so you know what I did, though,

420
00:20:55.319 --> 00:20:58.079
I took the circumstances. I'm like, right, well, I can't

421
00:20:58.079 --> 00:20:59.759
go to events like the other girls in other states.

422
00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:01.759
I'll get my hair downe go to the gym, do

423
00:21:01.839 --> 00:21:04.839
the whole glam thing. I'm just going to show them

424
00:21:05.200 --> 00:21:07.680
what they would get if they picked me. And so

425
00:21:07.759 --> 00:21:09.799
I just I shared my family a lot because we're

426
00:21:09.839 --> 00:21:12.119
very close, and my dad was in my content, like

427
00:21:12.680 --> 00:21:14.920
you know, my dad and I did our walks together.

428
00:21:15.880 --> 00:21:18.759
I did a social media series online every week where

429
00:21:18.799 --> 00:21:20.920
I created a space where I'd jump on live and

430
00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:24.480
chat to people about social political issues, current affairs, and

431
00:21:24.599 --> 00:21:26.680
heaps of people joining that series got like hundreds of

432
00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:30.079
thousands of views, and it was just using the resources

433
00:21:30.079 --> 00:21:30.519
at hand.

434
00:21:30.759 --> 00:21:30.960
You know.

435
00:21:31.119 --> 00:21:33.319
It was like, right, I don't have everything, but I'm

436
00:21:33.359 --> 00:21:35.799
just going to show them I'm a resourceful woman. I

437
00:21:35.839 --> 00:21:38.200
will do what I can with it. And it ended

438
00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:41.240
up being enough because I think they saw the impact

439
00:21:41.400 --> 00:21:43.480
and the drive, so it's like, wow, what would she

440
00:21:43.559 --> 00:21:47.240
do if she had everything at her disposal? So safe

441
00:21:47.279 --> 00:21:49.400
to say it went pretty well and I'm very grateful

442
00:21:49.519 --> 00:21:50.960
that night changed my life.

443
00:21:51.319 --> 00:21:54.160
Yeah, So, like what happens after you win a miss Universe?

444
00:21:54.279 --> 00:21:58.200
Like what happens then you have this platform for well

445
00:21:58.160 --> 00:22:00.240
a year, right while you hold the title.

446
00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:02.480
Technically, so that you almost en AFSUS Australia for a year.

447
00:22:02.519 --> 00:22:04.799
But I'll tell you, like pageant culture all over the world,

448
00:22:04.799 --> 00:22:08.160
it's different in different countries. So like Philippines, India it

449
00:22:08.240 --> 00:22:11.279
is like their national sport, like it is a big deal,

450
00:22:11.359 --> 00:22:14.279
like you have a million followers overnight, hundreds of thousands

451
00:22:14.319 --> 00:22:17.160
of dollars invested big teams, whereas Australia it's a little

452
00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:17.759
bit more chill.

453
00:22:18.039 --> 00:22:19.720
We don't really care about pageants over here.

454
00:22:20.480 --> 00:22:22.039
So what I want, Like, I don't even think I

455
00:22:22.039 --> 00:22:23.480
had a morning show interview or anything.

456
00:22:23.480 --> 00:22:24.759
I don't think anyone even knew.

457
00:22:25.240 --> 00:22:27.000
I think there were a lot of headlines because I

458
00:22:27.240 --> 00:22:29.839
was different, and so they were like, wow, look at

459
00:22:29.839 --> 00:22:33.000
this person who's won of Australia. But I had about

460
00:22:33.039 --> 00:22:36.039
eight months and you know, the directors, I think they're

461
00:22:36.039 --> 00:22:36.519
so funny.

462
00:22:36.519 --> 00:22:40.400
They were like, we weren't prepared for you because you

463
00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:41.880
run before you can walk.

464
00:22:42.240 --> 00:22:44.519
But I was like, I sent a massive email the

465
00:22:44.599 --> 00:22:47.440
day after and I said, guys, I want to make

466
00:22:47.480 --> 00:22:49.759
the most of this platform. These are all the TV

467
00:22:50.759 --> 00:22:52.359
the TV networks that I want to be on the

468
00:22:52.359 --> 00:22:54.599
shows I want to be on magazine interviews. I want

469
00:22:54.640 --> 00:22:57.720
to give the topics I want to speak on, because ultimately,

470
00:22:58.039 --> 00:23:00.559
beyond just trying to campaign for Miss Universe, won a

471
00:23:00.559 --> 00:23:04.079
really long lasting career in media and advocacy. So I

472
00:23:04.119 --> 00:23:06.839
sent them this huge email and they're like, you need

473
00:23:06.839 --> 00:23:10.559
to slow down. I'm like, absolutely not. And then I

474
00:23:10.680 --> 00:23:12.960
just assembled a team because they were in per so

475
00:23:13.000 --> 00:23:15.160
they helped me where they could. But I ended up

476
00:23:15.200 --> 00:23:17.000
assembling a team of friends who to this day a

477
00:23:17.079 --> 00:23:22.440
my creatives, photographers, videographers, stylist, and I literally like wrote

478
00:23:22.599 --> 00:23:25.160
and directed and produced my own little mini film for

479
00:23:25.480 --> 00:23:28.920
Miss Universe. We did all this, you know, incredible campaigning

480
00:23:28.960 --> 00:23:33.279
around inclusivity. Ended up doing like fourteen morning show interviews

481
00:23:33.279 --> 00:23:35.759
that year, and it was kind of the first time

482
00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:37.720
in a while that you saw in Miss Universe on TV.

483
00:23:37.799 --> 00:23:42.279
So often, like Australia kind of just dropped their interest

484
00:23:42.319 --> 00:23:44.799
for a little while. So we just worked really hard

485
00:23:44.839 --> 00:23:46.799
at it, and then I went to Miss Universe, so

486
00:23:47.480 --> 00:23:49.720
I had to have coaching on my walk. That's probably

487
00:23:49.759 --> 00:23:52.279
the most pageanty, I guess thing that I did, because

488
00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:55.640
let me tell you, I couldn't walk and there really

489
00:23:55.680 --> 00:23:57.759
is an art to it, and I love it because

490
00:23:57.880 --> 00:24:00.799
now it's not just like walking sexy a way, which

491
00:24:00.839 --> 00:24:03.200
is what people might think. It's how to walk with

492
00:24:03.400 --> 00:24:05.799
confidence in your body. And that's a skill that I

493
00:24:05.920 --> 00:24:08.599
take into every room and every meeting I walk into now.

494
00:24:09.880 --> 00:24:12.680
And so I had four days of walk coaching. A

495
00:24:12.720 --> 00:24:15.039
couple of them were on a few of them were

496
00:24:15.079 --> 00:24:17.640
on FaceTime. And the first time I ever walked on

497
00:24:17.680 --> 00:24:22.079
a stage was at the Global Miss Universe competition and

498
00:24:22.160 --> 00:24:24.759
I was like baptism by fire, here we go.

499
00:24:25.480 --> 00:24:27.519
So it was fun. I just took every moment and

500
00:24:27.559 --> 00:24:28.079
it was great.

501
00:24:28.279 --> 00:24:30.200
I think there is such an important lesson in that

502
00:24:30.279 --> 00:24:33.319
marine in that you can, you know, win the biggest

503
00:24:33.759 --> 00:24:36.519
beauty pageant in Australia, but nothing gets handed to you

504
00:24:36.559 --> 00:24:38.640
like you at some point if you want to make

505
00:24:38.680 --> 00:24:41.759
a change, you've got to harness that opportunity. Like as

506
00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:44.599
an individual, I think there's probably many people who just assume,

507
00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:46.680
you know, when you have a podcast or you write

508
00:24:46.680 --> 00:24:48.599
a book or you know, but you've actually got to

509
00:24:48.640 --> 00:24:53.599
harness that opportunity and take the lead in your own career,

510
00:24:53.759 --> 00:24:55.119
like drive your own.

511
00:24:55.119 --> 00:24:56.079
One hundred percent.51200:24:56.240 --> 00:24:57.839



And I think you know, if there are any Miss51300:24:57.960 --> 00:25:01.480



Universe hopefuls or anything like that. Listening, I get a51400:25:01.519 --> 00:25:03.920



lot of those women messaging me and they're like, you know,51500:25:04.400 --> 00:25:06.960



how did you end up having such a fruitful career?51600:25:07.000 --> 00:25:10.400



And it's like, because every single opportunity was worked for51700:25:10.680 --> 00:25:14.000



the book, the TV show, the presenting gigs, like nothing51800:25:14.079 --> 00:25:16.480



is handed to you, even as a Miss Universe or whatever.51900:25:16.519 --> 00:25:18.880



And I think in your career, same as you like52000:25:18.920 --> 00:25:22.359



with your podcast, you you know, reach out to incredible guests.52100:25:22.359 --> 00:25:24.480



You're the one doing the research and making it as52200:25:24.480 --> 00:25:27.440



good as it is. I think in life, if you52300:25:27.480 --> 00:25:30.559



ever get relaxed and start to expect things to come52400:25:30.599 --> 00:25:31.519



to you, that's.52500:25:31.279 --> 00:25:33.200



When things will change.52600:25:33.319 --> 00:25:37.079



And I do think when you take that initiative and52700:25:37.200 --> 00:25:39.279



drive in your own career and in your.52800:25:39.160 --> 00:25:41.880



Life, it's going to be incredible.52900:25:42.400 --> 00:25:44.599



You know it's and it has to be that way53000:25:44.640 --> 00:25:46.559



for that Yet, I don't think anyone hands you anything53100:25:46.559 --> 00:25:49.880



in life.53200:25:50.119 --> 00:25:53.400



I hope that you're enjoying this conversation and realizing the53300:25:53.440 --> 00:25:56.359



benefits of positivity in your own life. If you are53400:25:56.480 --> 00:25:59.200



enjoying the show, please be sure to like and subscribe53500:25:59.200 --> 00:26:01.559



so that you get notified when you epps drop and53600:26:01.640 --> 00:26:04.039



head on over to Apple podcasts or wherever you listen53700:26:04.119 --> 00:26:14.079



and leave us a rating and review. The world will53800:26:14.119 --> 00:26:17.839



push us towards doing the things that look good, you know.53900:26:17.880 --> 00:26:20.680



And it's about the money and the Instagram followers and54000:26:20.720 --> 00:26:22.720



the success and the public platform.54100:26:23.400 --> 00:26:24.160



How have you.54200:26:26.039 --> 00:26:30.200



Or guess what practices do you have or what do54300:26:30.240 --> 00:26:30.880



you do in life?54400:26:30.880 --> 00:26:32.079



I guess to keep you.54500:26:33.640 --> 00:26:36.279



Coming back to what is important to you because you're54600:26:36.279 --> 00:26:43.440



so values driven, how do you stay true to, you know,54700:26:43.480 --> 00:26:46.839



what really matters to you as opposed to being pulled54800:26:46.960 --> 00:26:50.599



away and distracted by all of that other glamorous, you54900:26:50.640 --> 00:26:51.440



know things.55000:26:52.039 --> 00:26:56.000



Yeah, that is the best question because cass I had55100:26:56.039 --> 00:26:58.839



a really big moment with that last year. So I55200:26:58.839 --> 00:27:01.759



think in the last year in particular, a lot has55300:27:01.880 --> 00:27:05.680



changed in my career. In that the book, there's been55400:27:05.680 --> 00:27:08.599



a lot more TV opportunities they'll be acting coming up,55500:27:08.640 --> 00:27:10.759



which is exciting and it's like.55600:27:10.839 --> 00:27:12.920



Okay, how amazing, Like you're chasing all this stuff.55700:27:13.559 --> 00:27:16.480



And I had this moment and you will so be55800:27:16.480 --> 00:27:19.839



able to pick my brain about this because psychologist, I55900:27:19.920 --> 00:27:22.519



had this moment of suddenly like I've always been a56000:27:22.559 --> 00:27:26.799



high achiever and very you know, passionate about doing things56100:27:26.839 --> 00:27:30.680



that I you know, just kicking goals and challenging myself.56200:27:31.079 --> 00:27:32.799



But I started to all of a sudden go, Okay,56300:27:32.799 --> 00:27:34.480



what's next, what's next, what's next?56400:27:35.079 --> 00:27:39.680



And suddenly I was so focused on chasing what's next56500:27:40.160 --> 00:27:42.240



that I was starting to lose Hang on a minute,56600:27:42.359 --> 00:27:44.359



why are you doing all of this in the first place,56700:27:44.759 --> 00:27:47.279



And also what is the impact you're trying to have?56800:27:47.319 --> 00:27:50.400



What is it actually serving? And when you're constantly chasing56900:27:50.400 --> 00:27:53.440



what's next because you're worried about how it looks, you know,57000:27:53.519 --> 00:27:56.759



like people are worried about a beautifully curated Instagram feed,57100:27:56.960 --> 00:28:00.480



Like these achievements are like a beautifully curated highlight, all right.57200:28:00.559 --> 00:28:03.519



And I felt like I lost myself for a minute.57300:28:03.960 --> 00:28:05.680



And so the way I really come back to it57400:28:05.720 --> 00:28:09.160



is one I see a great therapist to talk through57500:28:09.200 --> 00:28:11.039



a lot of the pressures of a very fast paced57600:28:11.079 --> 00:28:14.000



and changing career. Because I'm very aware that the kind57700:28:14.039 --> 00:28:15.680



of growth I've had in two years is not normal.57800:28:15.759 --> 00:28:18.160



It's a lot for any person. So I am seeing57900:28:18.160 --> 00:28:22.319



a therapist and I got home, switch off and hang58000:28:22.319 --> 00:28:25.119



out with my mom, dad, my dog, my brother, eat58100:28:25.160 --> 00:28:27.480



my mom's home cooked food, and I talk to my58200:28:27.559 --> 00:28:30.240



parents because they keep me grounded.58300:28:30.279 --> 00:28:31.119



They remind me.58400:28:31.240 --> 00:28:34.000



Of where I come from. They remind me of why58500:28:34.160 --> 00:28:36.359



I chose this career in the first place. My dad58600:28:36.359 --> 00:28:41.240



always says, leave your footprint, and suddenly I've got perspective again.58700:28:41.319 --> 00:28:42.000



And my Grandma.58800:28:42.359 --> 00:28:45.920



I pray to my grandma, so she's now my late grandma,58900:28:46.119 --> 00:28:48.720



big Mama, who passed last year, and I know she's59000:28:48.720 --> 00:28:51.880



looking out for me, but she always wanted. She was59100:28:51.880 --> 00:28:54.000



always very proud of me because of what I was59200:28:54.039 --> 00:28:57.039



doing and the why behind it. So I think just59300:28:57.039 --> 00:29:01.160



being really close to these people who were remind me me, darling,59400:29:01.240 --> 00:29:03.359



like the shiny things.59500:29:03.200 --> 00:29:03.920



Are not you.59600:29:04.000 --> 00:29:06.799



They're not even you don't even want them. So just59700:29:06.880 --> 00:29:09.799



remember that in the fast pace of it all, it's about,59800:29:09.839 --> 00:29:12.240



you know, just even that one person messaging you and saying,59900:29:12.279 --> 00:29:15.279



oh what you said or wrote or did it changed60000:29:15.319 --> 00:29:16.240



my life in this way.60100:29:16.640 --> 00:29:17.599



That's why you do it.60200:29:18.119 --> 00:29:20.519



So and I've got a beautiful partner now who just60300:29:21.200 --> 00:29:26.119



keeps me just so grounded and reminds me of why60400:29:26.200 --> 00:29:28.359



I do what I do and what that means to people.60500:29:28.480 --> 00:29:30.559



So I'm very blessed in that way to have good60600:29:30.559 --> 00:29:31.279



people around me.60700:29:32.039 --> 00:29:34.839



It did occur to me while I was reading your book, Maria,60800:29:34.920 --> 00:29:38.240



that I've actually just every other week I record a60900:29:38.240 --> 00:29:40.480



solo episode of the podcast and I talk about ideas61000:29:40.480 --> 00:29:42.559



in psychology that are relevant to people. And I just61100:29:42.880 --> 00:29:45.960



recorded a solo episode on attachment theory and you know,61200:29:46.079 --> 00:29:49.920



secure versus insecure attachment. And as I was reading your book,61300:29:49.960 --> 00:29:53.799



and you know, reading about the challenges that you had61400:29:53.920 --> 00:29:59.599



overcome in terms of belonging and religious and upbringing and sexuality,61500:29:59.640 --> 00:30:02.079



and I think, well, you know, the one thing that61600:30:02.119 --> 00:30:05.839



you it seems like you've really got is that secure attachment,61700:30:05.880 --> 00:30:10.400



that groundedness in a family that, regardless.61800:30:09.799 --> 00:30:12.680



Of how challenging it might have been, having that.61900:30:14.720 --> 00:30:19.119



Cultural kind of segregation between your Asian culture and your62000:30:19.599 --> 00:30:25.799



Australian culture, that constant message from your parents that you62100:30:27.160 --> 00:30:30.640



have that intrinsic self worth. You know, like we all struggle,62200:30:30.680 --> 00:30:33.599



we all have confidence issues, but you've got would you agree,62300:30:33.640 --> 00:30:37.240



that core kind of sense of being supported, that they're62400:30:37.279 --> 00:30:37.839



there for you.62500:30:38.559 --> 00:30:39.519



Yeah.62600:30:40.079 --> 00:30:43.119



My best friend, I remember one time, my best friend62700:30:43.119 --> 00:30:45.680



of twelve years, she would all sleep over my house62800:30:45.720 --> 00:30:47.839



when we were you know, sixteen seventeen. I remember one62900:30:47.920 --> 00:30:50.720



day my dad, he used to always do this and63000:30:50.759 --> 00:30:52.880



when I was a teenager, I was like, Dad, my63100:30:52.920 --> 00:30:55.119



friends are over, like, come on, you know. But he63200:30:55.160 --> 00:30:57.039



sat on the edge of my bed and he would63300:30:57.079 --> 00:30:59.480



come and talk to me, and it always has something63400:30:59.720 --> 00:31:02.920



why to say. He's like, he's like my mentor, right,63500:31:03.160 --> 00:31:04.480



so it's sit on there to the bed and be like,63600:31:04.519 --> 00:31:08.440



do things with purpose beta beta. In our culture, it63700:31:08.519 --> 00:31:11.119



means like darling my sweet child, So do things with63800:31:12.480 --> 00:31:15.440



purpose and in servers beta like, he'd say things like that.63900:31:15.480 --> 00:31:17.480



I remember one day he had a chat like that64000:31:17.519 --> 00:31:19.319



with my best friend and I. He got up and64100:31:19.359 --> 00:31:20.799



he left, and she had tears in her eyes, and64200:31:20.799 --> 00:31:21.519



I'm like, oh my god.64300:31:21.720 --> 00:31:23.079



I'm like, was my dad really annoying?64400:31:23.119 --> 00:31:23.759



Like what was it?64500:31:24.000 --> 00:31:26.960



Like, I'm sorry, and she said no, Like I don't64600:31:27.000 --> 00:31:29.759



think you realize how lucky you are to have that.64700:31:30.119 --> 00:31:32.839



And I realized why you're so confident, it's because he's64800:31:32.880 --> 00:31:36.279



your inner voice. And so my mom and dad from64900:31:36.319 --> 00:31:38.559



when I was little, even ten years old, I have65000:31:38.640 --> 00:31:40.599



memories of my dad scooping me up in his arms65100:31:40.680 --> 00:31:43.480



and saying, you're wives beyond your years. What do you65200:31:43.480 --> 00:31:45.200



want to do with your life? You can do it?65300:31:45.720 --> 00:31:49.480



Like I've constantly had that even with our own troubled65400:31:49.480 --> 00:31:53.200



family dynamics. At times everyone has that or like cultural issues.65500:31:53.480 --> 00:31:57.240



It was like that's a buffer that's always been there65600:31:57.279 --> 00:31:59.559



to be like, don't go too far, don't lose yourself65700:31:59.559 --> 00:32:03.680



too much. So I'm very lucky to have I'm very lucky.65800:32:03.839 --> 00:32:04.839



Yes, the sound amazing.65900:32:05.200 --> 00:32:06.960



I wanted to grow up in your family when I66000:32:06.960 --> 00:32:08.000



was reading about.66100:32:09.279 --> 00:32:10.359



That sounds so fun.66200:32:10.960 --> 00:32:14.240



Yeah, music and the food in Bite you over for66300:32:14.319 --> 00:32:16.039



a party, Puss, you love that.66400:32:16.079 --> 00:32:17.279



I live in London now.66500:32:19.000 --> 00:32:22.000



It's a long way for me to get to Melbourne.66600:32:22.039 --> 00:32:25.079



Otherwise I would be there when you and when you66700:32:25.160 --> 00:32:27.599



and Georgia come to London, then you can have me.66800:32:27.559 --> 00:32:29.839



Over, will come and visit?66900:32:30.200 --> 00:32:34.720



Yes, you, we've alluded to the whole sexuality thing for67000:32:34.759 --> 00:32:35.039



a bit.67100:32:35.079 --> 00:32:38.880



So your your brother is gay, right, Dominic's gay.67200:32:39.400 --> 00:32:43.160



You had only ever dated men, but you knew that67300:32:43.200 --> 00:32:45.079



there was an interest there in women.67400:32:45.559 --> 00:32:49.039



How how was it for you? Was was there a67500:32:49.079 --> 00:32:49.559



fear there?67600:32:49.599 --> 00:32:53.200



I guess about coming out like having a relationship with67700:32:53.240 --> 00:32:56.119



a woman, which you now do openly are in a wonderful,67800:32:56.160 --> 00:32:57.839



supportive relationship with your partner.67900:32:58.559 --> 00:33:03.839



How scary for you if it was to do that? Publicly.68000:33:04.720 --> 00:33:07.680



I think it wasn't scary to do it publicly. I68100:33:07.720 --> 00:33:09.960



was a little bit nervous, you know, interestingly, even that68200:33:10.039 --> 00:33:11.799



my parents were so supportive, I was a little bit68300:33:11.839 --> 00:33:14.440



nervous when I first introduced George to them, and not68400:33:14.480 --> 00:33:16.839



because I didn't think they would love her, but because68500:33:16.839 --> 00:33:19.559



it was the first time one they've only really ever68600:33:19.599 --> 00:33:22.400



met two of my partners, a high school sweetheart and68700:33:22.440 --> 00:33:25.079



my one really long term relationship. And I was a68800:33:25.079 --> 00:33:26.880



really good man, and so I'm like, Okay, this is68900:33:26.880 --> 00:33:28.599



the first time they're meeting a woman that I'm in69000:33:28.599 --> 00:33:31.839



a relationship with. They loved her, My dog loved her.69100:33:32.119 --> 00:33:34.799



Everyone loved her. So when I came went out publicly69200:33:34.880 --> 00:33:37.440



with her, I wasn't nervous. It was more just like,69300:33:38.039 --> 00:33:40.000



oh my god, I'm so excited for the world to69400:33:40.000 --> 00:33:44.680



see this incredible person because she is like I've never69500:33:44.759 --> 00:33:48.160



met anyone like her. And when I was younger, I69600:33:48.200 --> 00:33:50.279



don't even think it was a fear of being in69700:33:50.279 --> 00:33:51.599



a relationship with the girl.69800:33:51.960 --> 00:33:55.559



It's actually worse than that. It's even more primitive than that.69900:33:56.319 --> 00:34:00.680



When I was growing up, I did not understand sxuality70000:34:00.920 --> 00:34:04.279



beyond being straight or gay, and so when I had70100:34:04.319 --> 00:34:06.960



these feelings like crushes on my peers and you know,70200:34:07.119 --> 00:34:10.199



making out with my girlfriends at parties, I was like, well,70300:34:10.199 --> 00:34:12.440



I'm not gay, You're still like guys, so this is70400:34:12.519 --> 00:34:14.559



obviously just it's nothing.70500:34:14.599 --> 00:34:15.480



It must be nothing.70600:34:16.119 --> 00:34:18.159



But then the nothing was like a more and more70700:34:18.199 --> 00:34:21.239



and more curious inkling as I got older. So it70800:34:21.280 --> 00:34:24.320



was even worse because the lack of visibility and education,70900:34:24.719 --> 00:34:26.519



and we didn't speak about it at home or in71000:34:26.559 --> 00:34:28.079



religious circles.71100:34:28.119 --> 00:34:30.039



I was in that lack.71200:34:29.840 --> 00:34:32.760



Of education altogether meant I didn't even understand it. So71300:34:32.800 --> 00:34:35.800



I wasn't just afraid. I was like, oh, this is nothing.71400:34:36.719 --> 00:34:41.559



It's clearly not nothing. So here we are. So it's71500:34:41.679 --> 00:34:44.000



very nice to be in a place where I guess71600:34:44.039 --> 00:34:47.519



I'm just happy. I lived my life very publicly. Obviously,71700:34:47.599 --> 00:34:50.400



George and I protect a lot about our relationship, but71800:34:50.440 --> 00:34:52.800



it's very nice to know that, you know, there's going71900:34:52.840 --> 00:34:55.880



to be a queer kid, and you know, even better,72000:34:55.880 --> 00:34:57.559



like a queer South Asian kid who'll pick up say72100:34:57.559 --> 00:35:00.880



Stellar magazine from January that and see us on the72200:35:00.880 --> 00:35:03.760



cover and go, oh my god. You know, like that's72300:35:03.800 --> 00:35:07.039



okay and that exists and that's fine. Or they'll read72400:35:07.079 --> 00:35:11.039



the book and be like, I resonate with that, you know.72500:35:10.519 --> 00:35:11.360



Or I went through that.72600:35:11.480 --> 00:35:15.000



Even if you're forty fifty sixty and you're you're closeted72700:35:15.039 --> 00:35:17.039



and figuring it out, I'm sure you'll resonate with something72800:35:17.079 --> 00:35:20.840



I've written in that chapter on sexuality, because I feel72900:35:20.840 --> 00:35:24.800



like we're only very recently getting to a place where73000:35:24.800 --> 00:35:27.679



we're celebrating and celebrating and celebrating the community, and there's73100:35:27.679 --> 00:35:28.519



still a long way to go.73200:35:28.800 --> 00:35:33.920



So how was it having those religious messages about you know, sex,73300:35:34.079 --> 00:35:36.719



we all had them, sex before marriage and homosexualities are73400:35:36.760 --> 00:35:39.599



seeing your dad was a former Catholic priest. Now obviously73500:35:39.599 --> 00:35:42.800



he left the church, but he is still Catholic. Right,73600:35:42.880 --> 00:35:47.360



your parents were still very religious as you were growing up. Yeah,73700:35:47.639 --> 00:35:49.679



they're obviously, as you said, very supportive of you.73800:35:50.079 --> 00:35:52.679



They're very very supportive net well now like now they73900:35:52.760 --> 00:35:53.800



understand everything.74000:35:53.519 --> 00:35:56.920



They Yeah, and I guess and this might have to74100:35:57.119 --> 00:35:58.519



have to wrap this up in a minute, Marie, But74200:35:59.280 --> 00:36:02.519



many people who have that religious upbringing ultimately reject religion74300:36:02.719 --> 00:36:06.599



because they can't live a life that is in complete74400:36:06.840 --> 00:36:10.719



contradiction to the teachings of some of those very traditional religions.74500:36:11.840 --> 00:36:13.599



How have you come to find your own?74600:36:14.039 --> 00:36:17.639



You're still a spiritual person, So what's your kind of74700:36:17.679 --> 00:36:20.639



concept of God or spirituality?74800:36:20.880 --> 00:36:21.159



Now?74900:36:21.480 --> 00:36:23.519



Yeah, I think I understand why a lot of people75000:36:23.519 --> 00:36:25.760



completely turn away. I think for me when it comes75100:36:25.760 --> 00:36:30.880



to religion, yes, there are certain hypocrisies and things that75200:36:30.920 --> 00:36:33.400



don't make sense to me that I cannot align myself with.75300:36:33.800 --> 00:36:36.239



But in the book, just as I do with how75400:36:36.239 --> 00:36:39.840



I talk about, say, certain family experiences, I can appreciate75500:36:39.920 --> 00:36:43.159



the good in some of my religious upbringing, like the75600:36:43.239 --> 00:36:46.039



values for community and love one another, even if it's75700:36:46.079 --> 00:36:49.639



not practice that way. But I appreciate those values. But75800:36:49.719 --> 00:36:52.400



I do not subscribe to any organized religion, just as75900:36:52.440 --> 00:36:55.559



I've said, for example, I have had experiences with intergeneration76000:36:55.679 --> 00:36:59.880



or trauma, but it doesn't mean that my entire childhood,76100:37:00.119 --> 00:37:03.119



upbringing and family experiences were bad things, can you know,76200:37:03.199 --> 00:37:06.760



mutually exist? So I think for religion the way I76300:37:06.880 --> 00:37:09.239



like to you know, that's not something I subscribe to.76400:37:09.639 --> 00:37:13.719



But I believe that religion is a vehicle that humans76500:37:14.079 --> 00:37:16.719



have tried to make ancient spiritual knowledge, you know, digestible76600:37:16.760 --> 00:37:19.159



through and so for me, I think it's just bigger76700:37:19.199 --> 00:37:22.039



than that, and I in the book, I won't give76800:37:22.039 --> 00:37:23.679



away too much, but I talk about it from a76900:37:23.719 --> 00:37:26.639



mathematical perspective, which is rich for me because I hate maths.77000:37:26.840 --> 00:37:30.639



But I talk about a concept called fractals because fundamentally,77100:37:30.960 --> 00:37:36.719



I believe we're all energy and we're all interconnected, and77200:37:36.800 --> 00:37:40.800



so we are connected to everything that is, everything that77300:37:40.880 --> 00:37:44.800



ever was, and each other. And so I think when77400:37:44.880 --> 00:37:47.159



you live with that philosophy and you know that you77500:37:47.199 --> 00:37:51.079



are connected to literally the fabric of the universe, the77600:37:51.119 --> 00:37:54.480



source of everything that is, you know you're powerful and77700:37:54.519 --> 00:37:56.599



you won't just see the divinity in yourself, you'll see77800:37:56.599 --> 00:37:59.000



it in other people. And that then is your philosophy77900:37:59.000 --> 00:38:02.320



for how you should treat other peop people. So I'm78000:38:02.320 --> 00:38:05.199



definitely spiritual in that way. I believe that I am78100:38:05.199 --> 00:38:07.480



connected to something bigger and to connect it to other78200:38:07.480 --> 00:38:11.760



people and other things. And you know, I still talk78300:38:11.800 --> 00:38:15.679



to my grandma, and so that's where I'm at now.78400:38:15.920 --> 00:38:17.679



I like to practice a lot of the values of78500:38:17.920 --> 00:38:21.119



forgiveness and love and non judgment and things like that.78600:38:21.480 --> 00:38:24.280



But yeah, no religion for me, but I look back78700:38:24.280 --> 00:38:25.760



on certain parts of it fondly.78800:38:26.000 --> 00:38:30.719



Yeah, I love that Maria congratulations on everything that you78900:38:30.760 --> 00:38:33.480



have achieved. I will say for anybody who is interested79000:38:33.480 --> 00:38:35.679



in the book, it is a great book, and it79100:38:35.760 --> 00:38:39.960



is really a not just your story, but it is79200:38:40.159 --> 00:38:43.000



a tool that anybody who picks it up can use79300:38:43.199 --> 00:38:46.039



to reflect on themselves and their own story and their79400:38:46.079 --> 00:38:48.480



own journey. Like there is so much kind of at79500:38:48.480 --> 00:38:50.800



the risk of saying, you know, self helpy kind of79600:38:50.840 --> 00:38:54.199



in there, Like it's inspiring, and it's what I love most,79700:38:54.239 --> 00:38:57.559



I think is the practicality of it, you know, like, Okay,79800:38:57.599 --> 00:39:01.199



now you go and ask us off these questions. Yeah,79900:39:01.559 --> 00:39:03.760



go on, journal on this, you go and reflect on this.80000:39:03.880 --> 00:39:07.119



So I think it really is. It's a really valuable80100:39:07.159 --> 00:39:10.320



resource for anybody, apart from being obviously really interesting stories.80200:39:10.320 --> 00:39:13.320



So congratulations. Thank you so much for being here today.80300:39:13.679 --> 00:39:16.119



That was so generous. It literally fills my heart with80400:39:16.199 --> 00:39:18.719



so much joy. What I hear people describing what they80500:39:18.760 --> 00:39:20.880



think of the book, and especially you ca as I80600:39:20.960 --> 00:39:23.360



respect you and your work and your expertise so much.80700:39:23.440 --> 00:39:25.440



That means the world to me. Thank you for having me,80800:39:25.480 --> 00:39:27.000



and thank you to everybody for listening.80900:39:31.119 --> 00:39:34.440



Maria's brand new book, Unbounded, is available right now in81000:39:34.480 --> 00:39:37.440



all bookstores You can find out more about Maria at81100:39:37.440 --> 00:39:38.559



her website Maria.81200:39:38.320 --> 00:39:39.280



At theatill dot com.81300:39:39.320 --> 00:39:43.320



She's Maria Fatil on all social media platforms. If you81400:39:43.519 --> 00:39:46.960



love crapy or Happy. If you enjoyed this conversation, please.81500:39:46.679 --> 00:39:50.519



Do give us a rating and review. Please clickly follow.81600:39:50.320 --> 00:39:53.119



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I'm on Instagram Cast done, underscore xo, facebookcast done dot XO,81900:40:00.199 --> 00:40:02.639



and I can't wait to catch you next week on82000:40:02.679 --> 00:40:12.159



another episode of Crappy to Happy Listener