March 6, 2023

Breaking free from self-limiting beliefs with Maria Thattil

Breaking free from self-limiting beliefs with Maria Thattil
Breaking free from self-limiting beliefs with Maria Thattil
Crappy to Happy
Breaking free from self-limiting beliefs with Maria Thattil
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Season 9Self-ConfidencePersonal Growth & HealingCreativity & Self-Expression

Maria Thattil was propelled into the spotlight when she was crowned Miss. Universe Australia in 2020. She then went on to place in the Top 10 of the International Competition in 2021.

She was the third woman of colour to represent Australia in the pageants history.

Maria is a fierce activist for social causes and uses her platform to champion social justice issues like mental health and gender equality.

Connect with Maria: https://www.instagram.com/mariathattil/?hl=en

Connect with Cass:

www.cassdunn.com
www.instagram.com/cassdunn_xo

Contact Crappy to Happy:

Email: hello@crappytohappypod.com
www.crappytohappypod.com
www.instagram.com/crappytohappypod
www.tiktok.com/@crappytohappypod


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Transcript
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A listener production.

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Today, I want to introduce you to one of the

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most delightful human beings I've had the opportunity to meet

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on this show. She's smart, humble, kind, and she is

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passionate about using her voice to inspire others. Maria Fattila

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was propelled into the spotlight when she was crowned Miss

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Universe Australia in twenty twenty. She then went onto place

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in the top ten of the international competition in twenty

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twenty one, and was only the third woman of color

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to represent Australia in the pageant's sixty nine year history.

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Maria is the queer child of South Asian immigrants, and

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she grew up in suburban Melbourne, so she knows what

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it is like to struggle with belonging. She now is

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a fierce activist for social causes, and she uses her

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platform to champion critical social justice issues including anti racism,

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diversity inclusion, mental health, and jeni equality. Like I said,

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she is also a delight. She invited me for dinner

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at her house, and if I didn't live in London

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and she lives in Melbourne, I would have already taken

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her up on that.

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I really think that.

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You are going to love Maria just as much as

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I do.

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Here is that conversation. Maria, Welcome to the Crappy to

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Happy Podcast.

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Thank you so much for having me.

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You've been just such a radiant ray of sunshine since

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I've just started chatting to you, so I'm very excited

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to be here.

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I'm thrilled to have you. I speak to the most

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interesting people on this show. I'm very fortunate, but I

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would have to say you are my first Miss Universe,

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so I'm feeling quite honored.

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Oh, I feel very very special being the first of

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Miss Universe on your podcast. Hope, Hope, I just make

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you very excited to speak to more Miss Universes after this.

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Indeed, I'm sure you will, so Maria on that, I

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guess you know, on the face of it, anybody looking

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at you publicly, you are obviously beautiful.

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Miss Universe.

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Got into the top ten of the Missed Universe like

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globally is my understanding, right. You have now written a book.

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You are highly educated. You are like kicking goals in

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some you know, big spaces in the world. Anybody looking

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at you would just go wow, what an accomplished, confident

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young woman. But clearly it hasn't always been that way

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for you. You had to overcome your own internal obstacles

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to get to where you are now, which is the

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topic of your new book, Unbounded, And I was fascinated

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to read your story and really excited to talk to

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you about that.

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So can we just start with Maria?

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What was your experience like I guess, you know, growing

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up as a South Asian child of immigrants, suburban Melbourne,

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sort of one foot in each of two very different cultures.

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How was that for you as a child.

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Yeah, well, I'll stop by saying that's a very generous,

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very very generous introduction to your audience, So thank you, Cass.

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I guess when I on the face of it, to

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be in miss universe Australia, that in itself is such

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a big deal as a South Asian child of immigrants,

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because you know, I grew up in the nineties and

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the very early two thousands, and so at the time

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diversity wasn't just celebrated, it was kind of only ever

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really seen through a lens of super toxic caricatures or

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exaggerated stereotypes. And so the way that I experienced the

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world was I'd go to school, and I so desperately

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wanted to fit in with my peers who were you know,

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if they were white, they were Aussie.

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You know, that was it.

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But I'd go home and I was surrounded and immersed

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in really rich culture, from food, music, clothes, the accent

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and languages that my parents spoke. But to me, it

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felt like an anchor as a child, because it was

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like the thing that was stopping me from really fitting

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in with my peers. And so you go to school

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and the way that people interpret you is through your skin,

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and so at the time, approved from the Simpsons was

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probably the most prominent representation we had, so I would

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get everything from you know, okay, does your dad own

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a seven eleven? Does your mum with a red dot?

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Do they bob their heads when they talk? And that's

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how people understood you. And when you're a kid, you think, okay,

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something must be wrong with me, because otherwise people wouldn't

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be saying it. You know, you're a naive, trial like mind.

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And I also internalized a lot of these sensibilities. So

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it made me think that in order to be Australian,

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I needed to shed my ethnicity, even though that makes

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me me that's my rich roots. But I thought, I've

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got to part ways with that if I want to

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belong and to fit in and be Australian enough. And

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so it really caused a divide between my family and I.

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When I was growing up, my cousins who are so

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close to stop speaking to them. I started, you know,

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bleaching my skin with products that, sadly to the day,

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is on the market, and it was all kinds of

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things like going blonde, wearing blue eye contacts. And at

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the time I didn't realize it, but I was trying

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to wear skin that wasn't mine because you know, growing

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up as a South Asian child of immigrants, you think

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that you need to be somebody else to be good enough.

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And I think that message of being enough, I was

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bound to so many beliefs in other areas, like you know,

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to do a sexuality with faith, things like that. That

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just basically the underlying message was here's a blueprint. If

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you don't fit it, you ain't it. So that's what

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it was like. I think I spent a lot of

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time trying to chameleon myself into a lot of different

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spaces and it makes me really sad to look back on.

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But with the book, I wrote about it because I

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think there are going to be a lot of people

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who read it, and not just kids. I think adults

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and people will read it and they will give themselves

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permission to unbind themselves from those beliefs.

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Well, you're talking about there, that whole if I'm this,

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I'm not enough is so like you said, for you,

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it was culture, there was sexuality. Obviously we haven't even

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talked about the fact that your dad was a former

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Catholic Norist and that whole. Like I mean, I went

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to Catholic school, and so I all that original sinner

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and you're just born as a sinner, and you know

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you spend your life trying to get over that.

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You would remember the chapter chapter two in the book.

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You remember something I said about prayers. How I was like,

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why are we saying this?

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Why am I saying? I'm a kid, you.

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Know, and reciting reciting the prayers, also not even knowing

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what the prayers really mean, which it's just auto pilot.

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And I also on that I used to work a

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lot in well, not that you necessarily needed to work

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a lot in Asian countries, but I just used to

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travel back and forth to Japan, career, Taiwan, places like

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that in my twenties for my work, and I used

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to see that widening the skin, widening products like all

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over the shells always seemed to me, it just seemed like,

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how odd that all of the white girls so desperately

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worked brand and all of the brown girls apparently just

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liken't torturing themselves to try to be well.

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I think, you know, there's one thing, It doesn't matter

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where in the world you are, but skin tone is

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weaponized for social privilege, and within Asian communities and brown

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communities like ours, there's a phenomenon called colorism, where social

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privilege is allocated to those with fairer skin because you know,

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historically those with fairer skin. You know, India, for example, colonized,

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a lot of those communities colonized, so there were a

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lot of anglocentric ideas about beauty. And so when you

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come to countries like this, being darker typically has been

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associated with being able to holiday and this and that

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and the other. But also there's beauty standards which change

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all the time. You know, what's in vogue today won't

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be that tomorrow. And I just think the message for

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so many people always is if you do this, you'll

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be beautiful enough. If you do that, you'll be good enough,

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pure enough, this enough. And that's the whole point of

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this book. It's to get people to identify that and go, actually,

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I'm not buying this and whatever I've got, that's enough.

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It's good enough, so I think.

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But it was only through these experiences that I was

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able to unpack and understand my own identity.

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Really, so I.

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Work with women across all ages and this concept, this

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whole sense of not being enough, like that for many

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people continues throughout their life live and are still struggling

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and you know, jumping through hoops and trying to fix

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themselves and change themselves in order to be enough, well

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into their forties, fifties and beyond. So it's actually quite impressive,

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Maria that you have come to like you have sort

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of unpacked this, and you really have really unpacked this and.

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Work this out on your own at the age that

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you have.

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I'm curious to know what was the in the meantime,

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What were the things that you were doing or trying

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to do in order to overcome that not enoughness, Like

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what were some of the things or the paths that

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you went down in life to try to be enough

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to prove yourself.

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I can very distinctly pinpoint when it started changing for

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me in my twenties, and I really value your opinion,

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I think, your professional opinion, because I know you've read

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the book and so you know I have unpacked it,

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and so I think for me, you know, yes, it

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was years of I guess, subscribing to really really really

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self limiting beliefs based on racism and homophobia and a

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lot of religious dogma, a lot of it, and another

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things as well in terms of you know, I went

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to UNI, I did super well at UNI. You know,

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was then expected to oh, are you going to do

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a PhD? Are you going to do the corporate job?

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And so the further along I started going down this

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path based on Okay, this is what people expect me

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to do and be the unhappier I was. And it

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was in twenty nineteen where I sort of hit a

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bit of a crossroads and I really think of this

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chapter in my life as being the turning point, which

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ironically was when everything fell apart. And this is where

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I hope if you're listening to this ironically or in

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the Crappy to Happy podcast, really really reevaluate and just

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open your mind up to thinking of that really crappy moment,

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because it could be the thing that changes everything.

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So I was twenty six years old.

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I was living with my then partner, who I have

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a lot of love and respect for till this day.

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We are not together anymore, but he's a good man.

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It just didn't work out, and I was closeted and

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very confused, and I was very unhappy in my corporate

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job as well, and five figures in debt, like a

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lot of debt. I just had no financial literacy, no

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idea what I wanted to do, and I was constantly

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spending money on things to buy other people's pet of me.

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When we moved into this great apartment, Oh right, yep,

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I'll put the amazing marble coffee table on my credit card,

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just because I want people to look like I have

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it together right. And so that eventually just led me

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into a very bad financial place, and I just felt

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in my gut that it was time for the relationship

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to end. I felt it for a while, but got

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the courage and that ended, and I moved back home

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with my parents with debt and a job that I hated,

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and I literally moved into the corner room of their

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house that was so small that all it fit was

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my bed and a lambshade on the floor, and I

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had two of my brother's wardrobes in there. So my

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brother often jokes, you were sleeping in my wardrobe, and like,

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for me, it was just this point of what am

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I doing? However, I goten to this point what is next?

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But one thing I was starting to do was create

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content online. And it wasn't a time when social media

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was a thing and people were getting paid all the time.

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It was just starting to come up. But I used

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to love putting out beauty content just for the fun

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of it. I just enrolled in makeup qualification and at

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the time I had also graduated from a master's degree

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with first class honors. And so while I was doing

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that makeup certification, a lot of people roll their eyes

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at me and they were like, oh, like, you're gonna

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be a makeup girl.

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Like what are you doing. You're at Melbourne UNI, why

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are you doing that sort of thing?

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And even my friends, you know, some of them didn't

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understand the posting content online. They thought it was vain

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or vapid, but for me it brought joy. Like I

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was creating all these creative makeup looks and I was

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just doing it, putting it out there, and slowly I

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started integrating messages about diversity and a lack of it

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in the beauty industry, and slowly, slowly it started to

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attract a community of people who were like, oh my god,

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me too. I haven't felt heard and that's what I think.

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I'm so glad someone's saying it. And it was almost

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like social media was this place where I had I

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didn't need anyone's permission to say the thing or do

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the thing that made me happy. And the more I

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did it, the more I attracted it community. And suddenly

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I started to think, actually.

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Where can I push this? Where can I do this?

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And it was tough because a lot of people in

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my corporate job at the time kind of look down

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on it a little bit and it was a bit condescending.

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But I had a.

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Vision for it, albeit it wasn't as big as what

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I'm doing now. I just thought I can grow it

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and then when I have a platform, I can talk

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to people about these issues and how great would that be?

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So I think it was kind of having a space

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to slowly start doing my things safely, and when it

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started to just really like spark my soul. So I

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guess for anyone who's listening, and if you're a little

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bit lost and you're like, what do I do? Try everything,

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whether it's journaling, maybe you post something online, maybe you

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take a cooking class, and if it starts to spark joy,

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just follow it one foot in front of the other,

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just follow that thing and just be open to where

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it leads you. I didn't know my stuff would lead

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me here when I was doing MEKEU qualification. I want

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to be a beauty blogger back in the day, but

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here we are doing all this other stuff. So I

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think that's the power of following what sparks you.

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I think there is so much in what you just said.

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First of all, you know, achieving at university, relationship that

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looks great on the outside, lovely apartment.

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I think many.

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People find themselves in exactly the same place that you

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found yourself. Mare Like, on the outside it all looks

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so amazing, amazing, such a shiny life. I've been there

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in my twenties, and it takes courage, like it really

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does take some courage to walk away from something that

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you know, people will look at you and go, well,

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what why, like what what's how can you not be

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how can you not be happy? And the other thing

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I guess is that you know, even putting stuff out online.

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I mean, like you said, social media then perhaps wasn't

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what it is now, But in fact, what you're talking

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about is probably really the best of social media.

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Isn't it like that when it was really just green

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and everyone was.

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Positive and happy in community.

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Now everybody's just ripping each other away.

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It's a bit, it's evolved a little, but it wasn't

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nice the time, and it was like the era of

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like beauty tutorials and it was, but it's so true.

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It's like, and you're talking about courage, It's like, I

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know so many people have that where they're in the

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life that's comfortable and it's comfortable enough, right, Like it's

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comfortable enough. It's really freaking hard to walk away from

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a person you love and a life you are kind

305
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of like okay, I'm okay here, you know, for the unknown.

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And it's really scary to put yourself out there on

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social media in a time when one or like to

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put yourself out there on any activity, especially if those

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around you are kind of going, what are you doing?

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Like this isn't you what are you doing? So I

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think it does take courage. But do you know what

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was scarier to me? I think this is what pushed me.

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And I think a lot of people like, maybe if

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you can not wait till it gets to this point,

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I think this is a really great tip. But for me,

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it just got to the point where I was starting

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to get so miserable that the misery was scarier to

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me than people judging me. Like I was so scared

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of looking back with regrets. I knew that the pain

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of regret was going to be so much worse than

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the fear of what if you know, what if I

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just try something different?

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So I just had to change. Yeah, I had to.

324
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I was really unhappy.

325
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What led you to applying for Miss Universe?

326
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Well, truthfully, it was never something I thought I would do,

327
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just because I guess I had my own misconceptions about it,

328
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my own and my own internalized misogyny like let me

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just put my hand up and call myself out. My

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own internalized misogyny meant that I thought, oh, it's just

331
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a beauty pageant, and therefore I blanketed that perception to

332
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all the incredible women that go through it as well.

333
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And then the year before me, there was.

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A woman who won in twenty nineteen, an Indian Australian

335
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lawyer named Pria Serrau. She was Miss Universe Australia. And

336
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so when I saw one, an Indian woman to a lawyer,

337
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I was like, like, oh my god, maybe I could

338
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do it, you know, because at that point she was

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only the second woman of color to represent Australia in

340
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the pageant's sixty eight year history. I was the third.

341
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I was the third and sixty nine years. So when

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I saw her do it, because she was something different,

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it made me kind of go, well, maybe I could

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do it differently too, and maybe I can make people think,

345
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you know, differently about it. And there were people in

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my job I remember when I was a finalist who

347
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sort of said your pastor remarks like.

348
00:17:27.279 --> 00:17:29.400
But you're a feminist, you're smart, why are you doing it?

349
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My answer to them is, if you look at how

350
00:17:32.960 --> 00:17:36.200
much impact I'm having in my career now versus when

351
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I was in a corporate job, That's my answer. I

352
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did it because I knew, actually, I can take something

353
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with patriarchal roots and maximize it to serve this purpose

354
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of serving.

355
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Others and impacting others.

356
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And so it was a no brainer for me because

357
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you know what, back then and even to this day,

358
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no one is you know, in twenty nineteen, no one

359
00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:02.559
was running to give a woman of color or anything

360
00:18:02.799 --> 00:18:05.000
like that, to give her a platform like that and

361
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say you you're going to be an author, a TV presenter,

362
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big on social media, you're going to go into acting.

363
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Have you seen people like me on magazine covers often

364
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and doing all the things that I'm doing. It's like

365
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no one's rushing to hand the stuff out. So for me,

366
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if I see an opportunity, I'm going to take it

367
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and I'm going to run with it. So that's what

368
00:18:25.839 --> 00:18:27.880
Miss Universe was to me. Thank you, That's what Miss

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Universe was. And that's what you know, a lot of

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people will roll their eyes at young women or men

371
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who go on reality shows, but look at someone like

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Abby Chadfield who went on the Bachelor, But look at

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what she does now. So I think again, it's that

374
00:18:40.880 --> 00:18:44.640
step away from that judgment. Don't judge yourself don't judge others,

375
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don't judge platforms, and.

376
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When you're open minded, you never know what will happen.

377
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So true, and I think people still, you know, I

378
00:18:52.640 --> 00:18:55.079
think about Abby Chatfield and the work that she's doing

379
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and the career that she has, and there are still

380
00:18:58.039 --> 00:19:01.759
people who judge it. And I think that again, it

381
00:19:01.799 --> 00:19:04.680
reflects so much more on the people doing the judging. Yeah.

382
00:19:04.799 --> 00:19:13.079
No, it was like oh yeah, yeah, definitely, yes, oh yeah.

383
00:19:13.079 --> 00:19:14.279
There wasn't really a question in that.

384
00:19:15.359 --> 00:19:17.839
Wow. I'm like, you could not have said a truer statement.

385
00:19:18.160 --> 00:19:20.240
How did your life change then, Maria?

386
00:19:20.559 --> 00:19:23.240
I mean you won and oh you won in the

387
00:19:23.240 --> 00:19:28.680
middle of a pandemic like we were in lockdown, you

388
00:19:28.680 --> 00:19:29.359
were in Melbourne.

389
00:19:29.400 --> 00:19:31.839
I wasn't quening for you because let me tell you,

390
00:19:31.839 --> 00:19:33.400
it wasn't a good time down here.

391
00:19:34.039 --> 00:19:35.279
No Queensland.

392
00:19:35.319 --> 00:19:39.359
We're pretty tough with the borders. But we managed within Queensland.

393
00:19:39.359 --> 00:19:42.640
We actually, you know, we were fine. We were living

394
00:19:42.799 --> 00:19:46.279
life as usual. All the sympathy to you guys down

395
00:19:46.279 --> 00:19:49.039
in Melbourne. But you you went through miss Universe during.

396
00:19:49.880 --> 00:19:52.759
Lockdown and you know what, guys, the full scoop is

397
00:19:52.799 --> 00:19:55.240
in the book. But I will tell you this, having

398
00:19:55.359 --> 00:19:58.480
Miss Universe to sort of strive for in lockdown, and

399
00:19:58.519 --> 00:20:00.839
also let's not ignore the pre Yes, I was in

400
00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:03.039
Melbourne and it was the most lockdown place, but I

401
00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:06.039
had the privilege of all of my loved ones were

402
00:20:06.039 --> 00:20:09.480
healthy and nobody I knew passed.

403
00:20:09.240 --> 00:20:10.200
Away or got sick.

404
00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:13.240
We all kept our jobs, and I think there are

405
00:20:13.240 --> 00:20:15.279
a lot of people who were faring a lot worse.

406
00:20:16.240 --> 00:20:18.240
But for me, I just felt very grateful to have

407
00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:23.119
Miss Universe as my motivator because my competition was pushed

408
00:20:23.160 --> 00:20:26.240
back till October twenty eighth of that year, and so

409
00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:30.039
the night I won Miss Universe Australia, it was actually

410
00:20:30.079 --> 00:20:32.039
only twenty four hours that we had been out of

411
00:20:32.079 --> 00:20:35.039
the big lockdown, So I literally came out of lockdown

412
00:20:35.319 --> 00:20:38.720
the next day went to the final and it's like

413
00:20:39.640 --> 00:20:42.160
you almost the Uniforst Australia, but it was. It was

414
00:20:42.200 --> 00:20:45.359
really tough because I was competing virtually, so I literally

415
00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:48.200
was at home in the corner room, mom, dad, my dog,

416
00:20:48.279 --> 00:20:50.839
my brother at home, couldn't go to the gym, couldn't

417
00:20:50.880 --> 00:20:51.200
get my.

418
00:20:51.200 --> 00:20:53.119
Hair done in the corner, in the corner room to.

419
00:20:53.119 --> 00:20:55.000
Your parents, and so you know what I did, though,

420
00:20:55.319 --> 00:20:58.079
I took the circumstances. I'm like, right, well, I can't

421
00:20:58.079 --> 00:20:59.759
go to events like the other girls in other states.

422
00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:01.759
I'll get my hair downe go to the gym, do

423
00:21:01.839 --> 00:21:04.839
the whole glam thing. I'm just going to show them

424
00:21:05.200 --> 00:21:07.680
what they would get if they picked me. And so

425
00:21:07.759 --> 00:21:09.799
I just I shared my family a lot because we're

426
00:21:09.839 --> 00:21:12.119
very close, and my dad was in my content, like

427
00:21:12.680 --> 00:21:14.920
you know, my dad and I did our walks together.

428
00:21:15.880 --> 00:21:18.759
I did a social media series online every week where

429
00:21:18.799 --> 00:21:20.920
I created a space where I'd jump on live and

430
00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:24.480
chat to people about social political issues, current affairs, and

431
00:21:24.599 --> 00:21:26.680
heaps of people joining that series got like hundreds of

432
00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:30.079
thousands of views, and it was just using the resources

433
00:21:30.079 --> 00:21:30.519
at hand.

434
00:21:30.759 --> 00:21:30.960
You know.

435
00:21:31.119 --> 00:21:33.319
It was like, right, I don't have everything, but I'm

436
00:21:33.359 --> 00:21:35.799
just going to show them I'm a resourceful woman. I

437
00:21:35.839 --> 00:21:38.200
will do what I can with it. And it ended

438
00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:41.240
up being enough because I think they saw the impact

439
00:21:41.400 --> 00:21:43.480
and the drive, so it's like, wow, what would she

440
00:21:43.559 --> 00:21:47.240
do if she had everything at her disposal? So safe

441
00:21:47.279 --> 00:21:49.400
to say it went pretty well and I'm very grateful

442
00:21:49.519 --> 00:21:50.960
that night changed my life.

443
00:21:51.319 --> 00:21:54.160
Yeah, So, like what happens after you win a miss Universe?

444
00:21:54.279 --> 00:21:58.200
Like what happens then you have this platform for well

445
00:21:58.160 --> 00:22:00.240
a year, right while you hold the title.

446
00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:02.480
Technically, so that you almost en AFSUS Australia for a year.

447
00:22:02.519 --> 00:22:04.799
But I'll tell you, like pageant culture all over the world,

448
00:22:04.799 --> 00:22:08.160
it's different in different countries. So like Philippines, India it

449
00:22:08.240 --> 00:22:11.279
is like their national sport, like it is a big deal,

450
00:22:11.359 --> 00:22:14.279
like you have a million followers overnight, hundreds of thousands

451
00:22:14.319 --> 00:22:17.160
of dollars invested big teams, whereas Australia it's a little

452
00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:17.759
bit more chill.

453
00:22:18.039 --> 00:22:19.720
We don't really care about pageants over here.

454
00:22:20.480 --> 00:22:22.039
So what I want, Like, I don't even think I

455
00:22:22.039 --> 00:22:23.480
had a morning show interview or anything.

456
00:22:23.480 --> 00:22:24.759
I don't think anyone even knew.

457
00:22:25.240 --> 00:22:27.000
I think there were a lot of headlines because I

458
00:22:27.240 --> 00:22:29.839
was different, and so they were like, wow, look at

459
00:22:29.839 --> 00:22:33.000
this person who's won of Australia. But I had about

460
00:22:33.039 --> 00:22:36.039
eight months and you know, the directors, I think they're

461
00:22:36.039 --> 00:22:36.519
so funny.

462
00:22:36.519 --> 00:22:40.400
They were like, we weren't prepared for you because you

463
00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:41.880
run before you can walk.

464
00:22:42.240 --> 00:22:44.519
But I was like, I sent a massive email the

465
00:22:44.599 --> 00:22:47.440
day after and I said, guys, I want to make

466
00:22:47.480 --> 00:22:49.759
the most of this platform. These are all the TV

467
00:22:50.759 --> 00:22:52.359
the TV networks that I want to be on the

468
00:22:52.359 --> 00:22:54.599
shows I want to be on magazine interviews. I want

469
00:22:54.640 --> 00:22:57.720
to give the topics I want to speak on, because ultimately,

470
00:22:58.039 --> 00:23:00.559
beyond just trying to campaign for Miss Universe, won a

471
00:23:00.559 --> 00:23:04.079
really long lasting career in media and advocacy. So I

472
00:23:04.119 --> 00:23:06.839
sent them this huge email and they're like, you need

473
00:23:06.839 --> 00:23:10.559
to slow down. I'm like, absolutely not. And then I

474
00:23:10.680 --> 00:23:12.960
just assembled a team because they were in per so

475
00:23:13.000 --> 00:23:15.160
they helped me where they could. But I ended up

476
00:23:15.200 --> 00:23:17.000
assembling a team of friends who to this day a

477
00:23:17.079 --> 00:23:22.440
my creatives, photographers, videographers, stylist, and I literally like wrote

478
00:23:22.599 --> 00:23:25.160
and directed and produced my own little mini film for

479
00:23:25.480 --> 00:23:28.920
Miss Universe. We did all this, you know, incredible campaigning

480
00:23:28.960 --> 00:23:33.279
around inclusivity. Ended up doing like fourteen morning show interviews

481
00:23:33.279 --> 00:23:35.759
that year, and it was kind of the first time

482
00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:37.720
in a while that you saw in Miss Universe on TV.

483
00:23:37.799 --> 00:23:42.279
So often, like Australia kind of just dropped their interest

484
00:23:42.319 --> 00:23:44.799
for a little while. So we just worked really hard

485
00:23:44.839 --> 00:23:46.799
at it, and then I went to Miss Universe, so

486
00:23:47.480 --> 00:23:49.720
I had to have coaching on my walk. That's probably

487
00:23:49.759 --> 00:23:52.279
the most pageanty, I guess thing that I did, because

488
00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:55.640
let me tell you, I couldn't walk and there really

489
00:23:55.680 --> 00:23:57.759
is an art to it, and I love it because

490
00:23:57.880 --> 00:24:00.799
now it's not just like walking sexy a way, which

491
00:24:00.839 --> 00:24:03.200
is what people might think. It's how to walk with

492
00:24:03.400 --> 00:24:05.799
confidence in your body. And that's a skill that I

493
00:24:05.920 --> 00:24:08.599
take into every room and every meeting I walk into now.

494
00:24:09.880 --> 00:24:12.680
And so I had four days of walk coaching. A

495
00:24:12.720 --> 00:24:15.039
couple of them were on a few of them were

496
00:24:15.079 --> 00:24:17.640
on FaceTime. And the first time I ever walked on

497
00:24:17.680 --> 00:24:22.079
a stage was at the Global Miss Universe competition and

498
00:24:22.160 --> 00:24:24.759
I was like baptism by fire, here we go.

499
00:24:25.480 --> 00:24:27.519
So it was fun. I just took every moment and

500
00:24:27.559 --> 00:24:28.079
it was great.

501
00:24:28.279 --> 00:24:30.200
I think there is such an important lesson in that

502
00:24:30.279 --> 00:24:33.319
marine in that you can, you know, win the biggest

503
00:24:33.759 --> 00:24:36.519
beauty pageant in Australia, but nothing gets handed to you

504
00:24:36.559 --> 00:24:38.640
like you at some point if you want to make

505
00:24:38.680 --> 00:24:41.759
a change, you've got to harness that opportunity. Like as

506
00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:44.599
an individual, I think there's probably many people who just assume,

507
00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:46.680
you know, when you have a podcast or you write

508
00:24:46.680 --> 00:24:48.599
a book or you know, but you've actually got to

509
00:24:48.640 --> 00:24:53.599
harness that opportunity and take the lead in your own career,

510
00:24:53.759 --> 00:24:55.119
like drive your own.

511
00:24:55.119 --> 00:24:56.079
One hundred percent.

512
00:24:56.240 --> 00:24:57.839
And I think you know, if there are any Miss

513
00:24:57.960 --> 00:25:01.480
Universe hopefuls or anything like that. Listening, I get a

514
00:25:01.519 --> 00:25:03.920
lot of those women messaging me and they're like, you know,

515
00:25:04.400 --> 00:25:06.960
how did you end up having such a fruitful career?

516
00:25:07.000 --> 00:25:10.400
And it's like, because every single opportunity was worked for

517
00:25:10.680 --> 00:25:14.000
the book, the TV show, the presenting gigs, like nothing

518
00:25:14.079 --> 00:25:16.480
is handed to you, even as a Miss Universe or whatever.

519
00:25:16.519 --> 00:25:18.880
And I think in your career, same as you like

520
00:25:18.920 --> 00:25:22.359
with your podcast, you you know, reach out to incredible guests.

521
00:25:22.359 --> 00:25:24.480
You're the one doing the research and making it as

522
00:25:24.480 --> 00:25:27.440
good as it is. I think in life, if you

523
00:25:27.480 --> 00:25:30.559
ever get relaxed and start to expect things to come

524
00:25:30.599 --> 00:25:31.519
to you, that's.

525
00:25:31.279 --> 00:25:33.200
When things will change.

526
00:25:33.319 --> 00:25:37.079
And I do think when you take that initiative and

527
00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:39.279
drive in your own career and in your.

528
00:25:39.160 --> 00:25:41.880
Life, it's going to be incredible.

529
00:25:42.400 --> 00:25:44.599
You know it's and it has to be that way

530
00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:46.559
for that Yet, I don't think anyone hands you anything

531
00:25:46.559 --> 00:25:49.880
in life.

532
00:25:50.119 --> 00:25:53.400
I hope that you're enjoying this conversation and realizing the

533
00:25:53.440 --> 00:25:56.359
benefits of positivity in your own life. If you are

534
00:25:56.480 --> 00:25:59.200
enjoying the show, please be sure to like and subscribe

535
00:25:59.200 --> 00:26:01.559
so that you get notified when you epps drop and

536
00:26:01.640 --> 00:26:04.039
head on over to Apple podcasts or wherever you listen

537
00:26:04.119 --> 00:26:14.079
and leave us a rating and review. The world will

538
00:26:14.119 --> 00:26:17.839
push us towards doing the things that look good, you know.

539
00:26:17.880 --> 00:26:20.680
And it's about the money and the Instagram followers and

540
00:26:20.720 --> 00:26:22.720
the success and the public platform.

541
00:26:23.400 --> 00:26:24.160
How have you.

542
00:26:26.039 --> 00:26:30.200
Or guess what practices do you have or what do

543
00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:30.880
you do in life?

544
00:26:30.880 --> 00:26:32.079
I guess to keep you.

545
00:26:33.640 --> 00:26:36.279
Coming back to what is important to you because you're

546
00:26:36.279 --> 00:26:43.440
so values driven, how do you stay true to, you know,

547
00:26:43.480 --> 00:26:46.839
what really matters to you as opposed to being pulled

548
00:26:46.960 --> 00:26:50.599
away and distracted by all of that other glamorous, you

549
00:26:50.640 --> 00:26:51.440
know things.

550
00:26:52.039 --> 00:26:56.000
Yeah, that is the best question because cass I had

551
00:26:56.039 --> 00:26:58.839
a really big moment with that last year. So I

552
00:26:58.839 --> 00:27:01.759
think in the last year in particular, a lot has

553
00:27:01.880 --> 00:27:05.680
changed in my career. In that the book, there's been

554
00:27:05.680 --> 00:27:08.599
a lot more TV opportunities they'll be acting coming up,

555
00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:10.759
which is exciting and it's like.

556
00:27:10.839 --> 00:27:12.920
Okay, how amazing, Like you're chasing all this stuff.

557
00:27:13.559 --> 00:27:16.480
And I had this moment and you will so be

558
00:27:16.480 --> 00:27:19.839
able to pick my brain about this because psychologist, I

559
00:27:19.920 --> 00:27:22.519
had this moment of suddenly like I've always been a

560
00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:26.799
high achiever and very you know, passionate about doing things

561
00:27:26.839 --> 00:27:30.680
that I you know, just kicking goals and challenging myself.

562
00:27:31.079 --> 00:27:32.799
But I started to all of a sudden go, Okay,

563
00:27:32.799 --> 00:27:34.480
what's next, what's next, what's next?

564
00:27:35.079 --> 00:27:39.680
And suddenly I was so focused on chasing what's next

565
00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:42.240
that I was starting to lose Hang on a minute,

566
00:27:42.359 --> 00:27:44.359
why are you doing all of this in the first place,

567
00:27:44.759 --> 00:27:47.279
And also what is the impact you're trying to have?

568
00:27:47.319 --> 00:27:50.400
What is it actually serving? And when you're constantly chasing

569
00:27:50.400 --> 00:27:53.440
what's next because you're worried about how it looks, you know,

570
00:27:53.519 --> 00:27:56.759
like people are worried about a beautifully curated Instagram feed,

571
00:27:56.960 --> 00:28:00.480
Like these achievements are like a beautifully curated highlight, all right.

572
00:28:00.559 --> 00:28:03.519
And I felt like I lost myself for a minute.

573
00:28:03.960 --> 00:28:05.680
And so the way I really come back to it

574
00:28:05.720 --> 00:28:09.160
is one I see a great therapist to talk through

575
00:28:09.200 --> 00:28:11.039
a lot of the pressures of a very fast paced

576
00:28:11.079 --> 00:28:14.000
and changing career. Because I'm very aware that the kind

577
00:28:14.039 --> 00:28:15.680
of growth I've had in two years is not normal.

578
00:28:15.759 --> 00:28:18.160
It's a lot for any person. So I am seeing

579
00:28:18.160 --> 00:28:22.319
a therapist and I got home, switch off and hang

580
00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:25.119
out with my mom, dad, my dog, my brother, eat

581
00:28:25.160 --> 00:28:27.480
my mom's home cooked food, and I talk to my

582
00:28:27.559 --> 00:28:30.240
parents because they keep me grounded.

583
00:28:30.279 --> 00:28:31.119
They remind me.

584
00:28:31.240 --> 00:28:34.000
Of where I come from. They remind me of why

585
00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:36.359
I chose this career in the first place. My dad

586
00:28:36.359 --> 00:28:41.240
always says, leave your footprint, and suddenly I've got perspective again.

587
00:28:41.319 --> 00:28:42.000
And my Grandma.

588
00:28:42.359 --> 00:28:45.920
I pray to my grandma, so she's now my late grandma,

589
00:28:46.119 --> 00:28:48.720
big Mama, who passed last year, and I know she's

590
00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:51.880
looking out for me, but she always wanted. She was

591
00:28:51.880 --> 00:28:54.000
always very proud of me because of what I was

592
00:28:54.039 --> 00:28:57.039
doing and the why behind it. So I think just

593
00:28:57.039 --> 00:29:01.160
being really close to these people who were remind me me, darling,

594
00:29:01.240 --> 00:29:03.359
like the shiny things.

595
00:29:03.200 --> 00:29:03.920
Are not you.

596
00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:06.799
They're not even you don't even want them. So just

597
00:29:06.880 --> 00:29:09.799
remember that in the fast pace of it all, it's about,

598
00:29:09.839 --> 00:29:12.240
you know, just even that one person messaging you and saying,

599
00:29:12.279 --> 00:29:15.279
oh what you said or wrote or did it changed

600
00:29:15.319 --> 00:29:16.240
my life in this way.

601
00:29:16.640 --> 00:29:17.599
That's why you do it.

602
00:29:18.119 --> 00:29:20.519
So and I've got a beautiful partner now who just

603
00:29:21.200 --> 00:29:26.119
keeps me just so grounded and reminds me of why

604
00:29:26.200 --> 00:29:28.359
I do what I do and what that means to people.

605
00:29:28.480 --> 00:29:30.559
So I'm very blessed in that way to have good

606
00:29:30.559 --> 00:29:31.279
people around me.

607
00:29:32.039 --> 00:29:34.839
It did occur to me while I was reading your book, Maria,

608
00:29:34.920 --> 00:29:38.240
that I've actually just every other week I record a

609
00:29:38.240 --> 00:29:40.480
solo episode of the podcast and I talk about ideas

610
00:29:40.480 --> 00:29:42.559
in psychology that are relevant to people. And I just

611
00:29:42.880 --> 00:29:45.960
recorded a solo episode on attachment theory and you know,

612
00:29:46.079 --> 00:29:49.920
secure versus insecure attachment. And as I was reading your book,

613
00:29:49.960 --> 00:29:53.799
and you know, reading about the challenges that you had

614
00:29:53.920 --> 00:29:59.599
overcome in terms of belonging and religious and upbringing and sexuality,

615
00:29:59.640 --> 00:30:02.079
and I think, well, you know, the one thing that

616
00:30:02.119 --> 00:30:05.839
you it seems like you've really got is that secure attachment,

617
00:30:05.880 --> 00:30:10.400
that groundedness in a family that, regardless.

618
00:30:09.799 --> 00:30:12.680
Of how challenging it might have been, having that.

619
00:30:14.720 --> 00:30:19.119
Cultural kind of segregation between your Asian culture and your

620
00:30:19.599 --> 00:30:25.799
Australian culture, that constant message from your parents that you

621
00:30:27.160 --> 00:30:30.640
have that intrinsic self worth. You know, like we all struggle,

622
00:30:30.680 --> 00:30:33.599
we all have confidence issues, but you've got would you agree,

623
00:30:33.640 --> 00:30:37.240
that core kind of sense of being supported, that they're

624
00:30:37.279 --> 00:30:37.839
there for you.

625
00:30:38.559 --> 00:30:39.519
Yeah.

626
00:30:40.079 --> 00:30:43.119
My best friend, I remember one time, my best friend

627
00:30:43.119 --> 00:30:45.680
of twelve years, she would all sleep over my house

628
00:30:45.720 --> 00:30:47.839
when we were you know, sixteen seventeen. I remember one

629
00:30:47.920 --> 00:30:50.720
day my dad, he used to always do this and

630
00:30:50.759 --> 00:30:52.880
when I was a teenager, I was like, Dad, my

631
00:30:52.920 --> 00:30:55.119
friends are over, like, come on, you know. But he

632
00:30:55.160 --> 00:30:57.039
sat on the edge of my bed and he would

633
00:30:57.079 --> 00:30:59.480
come and talk to me, and it always has something

634
00:30:59.720 --> 00:31:02.920
why to say. He's like, he's like my mentor, right,

635
00:31:03.160 --> 00:31:04.480
so it's sit on there to the bed and be like,

636
00:31:04.519 --> 00:31:08.440
do things with purpose beta beta. In our culture, it

637
00:31:08.519 --> 00:31:11.119
means like darling my sweet child, So do things with

638
00:31:12.480 --> 00:31:15.440
purpose and in servers beta like, he'd say things like that.

639
00:31:15.480 --> 00:31:17.480
I remember one day he had a chat like that

640
00:31:17.519 --> 00:31:19.319
with my best friend and I. He got up and

641
00:31:19.359 --> 00:31:20.799
he left, and she had tears in her eyes, and

642
00:31:20.799 --> 00:31:21.519
I'm like, oh my god.

643
00:31:21.720 --> 00:31:23.079
I'm like, was my dad really annoying?

644
00:31:23.119 --> 00:31:23.759
Like what was it?

645
00:31:24.000 --> 00:31:26.960
Like, I'm sorry, and she said no, Like I don't

646
00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:29.759
think you realize how lucky you are to have that.

647
00:31:30.119 --> 00:31:32.839
And I realized why you're so confident, it's because he's

648
00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:36.279
your inner voice. And so my mom and dad from

649
00:31:36.319 --> 00:31:38.559
when I was little, even ten years old, I have

650
00:31:38.640 --> 00:31:40.599
memories of my dad scooping me up in his arms

651
00:31:40.680 --> 00:31:43.480
and saying, you're wives beyond your years. What do you

652
00:31:43.480 --> 00:31:45.200
want to do with your life? You can do it?

653
00:31:45.720 --> 00:31:49.480
Like I've constantly had that even with our own troubled

654
00:31:49.480 --> 00:31:53.200
family dynamics. At times everyone has that or like cultural issues.

655
00:31:53.480 --> 00:31:57.240
It was like that's a buffer that's always been there

656
00:31:57.279 --> 00:31:59.559
to be like, don't go too far, don't lose yourself

657
00:31:59.559 --> 00:32:03.680
too much. So I'm very lucky to have I'm very lucky.

658
00:32:03.839 --> 00:32:04.839
Yes, the sound amazing.

659
00:32:05.200 --> 00:32:06.960
I wanted to grow up in your family when I

660
00:32:06.960 --> 00:32:08.000
was reading about.

661
00:32:09.279 --> 00:32:10.359
That sounds so fun.

662
00:32:10.960 --> 00:32:14.240
Yeah, music and the food in Bite you over for

663
00:32:14.319 --> 00:32:16.039
a party, Puss, you love that.

664
00:32:16.079 --> 00:32:17.279
I live in London now.

665
00:32:19.000 --> 00:32:22.000
It's a long way for me to get to Melbourne.

666
00:32:22.039 --> 00:32:25.079
Otherwise I would be there when you and when you

667
00:32:25.160 --> 00:32:27.599
and Georgia come to London, then you can have me.

668
00:32:27.559 --> 00:32:29.839
Over, will come and visit?

669
00:32:30.200 --> 00:32:34.720
Yes, you, we've alluded to the whole sexuality thing for

670
00:32:34.759 --> 00:32:35.039
a bit.

671
00:32:35.079 --> 00:32:38.880
So your your brother is gay, right, Dominic's gay.

672
00:32:39.400 --> 00:32:43.160
You had only ever dated men, but you knew that

673
00:32:43.200 --> 00:32:45.079
there was an interest there in women.

674
00:32:45.559 --> 00:32:49.039
How how was it for you? Was was there a

675
00:32:49.079 --> 00:32:49.559
fear there?

676
00:32:49.599 --> 00:32:53.200
I guess about coming out like having a relationship with

677
00:32:53.240 --> 00:32:56.119
a woman, which you now do openly are in a wonderful,

678
00:32:56.160 --> 00:32:57.839
supportive relationship with your partner.

679
00:32:58.559 --> 00:33:03.839
How scary for you if it was to do that? Publicly.

680
00:33:04.720 --> 00:33:07.680
I think it wasn't scary to do it publicly. I

681
00:33:07.720 --> 00:33:09.960
was a little bit nervous, you know, interestingly, even that

682
00:33:10.039 --> 00:33:11.799
my parents were so supportive, I was a little bit

683
00:33:11.839 --> 00:33:14.440
nervous when I first introduced George to them, and not

684
00:33:14.480 --> 00:33:16.839
because I didn't think they would love her, but because

685
00:33:16.839 --> 00:33:19.559
it was the first time one they've only really ever

686
00:33:19.599 --> 00:33:22.400
met two of my partners, a high school sweetheart and

687
00:33:22.440 --> 00:33:25.079
my one really long term relationship. And I was a

688
00:33:25.079 --> 00:33:26.880
really good man, and so I'm like, Okay, this is

689
00:33:26.880 --> 00:33:28.599
the first time they're meeting a woman that I'm in

690
00:33:28.599 --> 00:33:31.839
a relationship with. They loved her, My dog loved her.

691
00:33:32.119 --> 00:33:34.799
Everyone loved her. So when I came went out publicly

692
00:33:34.880 --> 00:33:37.440
with her, I wasn't nervous. It was more just like,

693
00:33:38.039 --> 00:33:40.000
oh my god, I'm so excited for the world to

694
00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:44.680
see this incredible person because she is like I've never

695
00:33:44.759 --> 00:33:48.160
met anyone like her. And when I was younger, I

696
00:33:48.200 --> 00:33:50.279
don't even think it was a fear of being in

697
00:33:50.279 --> 00:33:51.599
a relationship with the girl.

698
00:33:51.960 --> 00:33:55.559
It's actually worse than that. It's even more primitive than that.

699
00:33:56.319 --> 00:34:00.680
When I was growing up, I did not understand sxuality

700
00:34:00.920 --> 00:34:04.279
beyond being straight or gay, and so when I had

701
00:34:04.319 --> 00:34:06.960
these feelings like crushes on my peers and you know,

702
00:34:07.119 --> 00:34:10.199
making out with my girlfriends at parties, I was like, well,

703
00:34:10.199 --> 00:34:12.440
I'm not gay, You're still like guys, so this is

704
00:34:12.519 --> 00:34:14.559
obviously just it's nothing.

705
00:34:14.599 --> 00:34:15.480
It must be nothing.

706
00:34:16.119 --> 00:34:18.159
But then the nothing was like a more and more

707
00:34:18.199 --> 00:34:21.239
and more curious inkling as I got older. So it

708
00:34:21.280 --> 00:34:24.320
was even worse because the lack of visibility and education,

709
00:34:24.719 --> 00:34:26.519
and we didn't speak about it at home or in

710
00:34:26.559 --> 00:34:28.079
religious circles.

711
00:34:28.119 --> 00:34:30.039
I was in that lack.

712
00:34:29.840 --> 00:34:32.760
Of education altogether meant I didn't even understand it. So

713
00:34:32.800 --> 00:34:35.800
I wasn't just afraid. I was like, oh, this is nothing.

714
00:34:36.719 --> 00:34:41.559
It's clearly not nothing. So here we are. So it's

715
00:34:41.679 --> 00:34:44.000
very nice to be in a place where I guess

716
00:34:44.039 --> 00:34:47.519
I'm just happy. I lived my life very publicly. Obviously,

717
00:34:47.599 --> 00:34:50.400
George and I protect a lot about our relationship, but

718
00:34:50.440 --> 00:34:52.800
it's very nice to know that, you know, there's going

719
00:34:52.840 --> 00:34:55.880
to be a queer kid, and you know, even better,

720
00:34:55.880 --> 00:34:57.559
like a queer South Asian kid who'll pick up say

721
00:34:57.559 --> 00:35:00.880
Stellar magazine from January that and see us on the

722
00:35:00.880 --> 00:35:03.760
cover and go, oh my god. You know, like that's

723
00:35:03.800 --> 00:35:07.039
okay and that exists and that's fine. Or they'll read

724
00:35:07.079 --> 00:35:11.039
the book and be like, I resonate with that, you know.

725
00:35:10.519 --> 00:35:11.360
Or I went through that.

726
00:35:11.480 --> 00:35:15.000
Even if you're forty fifty sixty and you're you're closeted

727
00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:17.039
and figuring it out, I'm sure you'll resonate with something

728
00:35:17.079 --> 00:35:20.840
I've written in that chapter on sexuality, because I feel

729
00:35:20.840 --> 00:35:24.800
like we're only very recently getting to a place where

730
00:35:24.800 --> 00:35:27.679
we're celebrating and celebrating and celebrating the community, and there's

731
00:35:27.679 --> 00:35:28.519
still a long way to go.

732
00:35:28.800 --> 00:35:33.920
So how was it having those religious messages about you know, sex,

733
00:35:34.079 --> 00:35:36.719
we all had them, sex before marriage and homosexualities are

734
00:35:36.760 --> 00:35:39.599
seeing your dad was a former Catholic priest. Now obviously

735
00:35:39.599 --> 00:35:42.800
he left the church, but he is still Catholic. Right,

736
00:35:42.880 --> 00:35:47.360
your parents were still very religious as you were growing up. Yeah,

737
00:35:47.639 --> 00:35:49.679
they're obviously, as you said, very supportive of you.

738
00:35:50.079 --> 00:35:52.679
They're very very supportive net well now like now they

739
00:35:52.760 --> 00:35:53.800
understand everything.

740
00:35:53.519 --> 00:35:56.920
They Yeah, and I guess and this might have to

741
00:35:57.119 --> 00:35:58.519
have to wrap this up in a minute, Marie, But

742
00:35:59.280 --> 00:36:02.519
many people who have that religious upbringing ultimately reject religion

743
00:36:02.719 --> 00:36:06.599
because they can't live a life that is in complete

744
00:36:06.840 --> 00:36:10.719
contradiction to the teachings of some of those very traditional religions.

745
00:36:11.840 --> 00:36:13.599
How have you come to find your own?

746
00:36:14.039 --> 00:36:17.639
You're still a spiritual person, So what's your kind of

747
00:36:17.679 --> 00:36:20.639
concept of God or spirituality?

748
00:36:20.880 --> 00:36:21.159
Now?

749
00:36:21.480 --> 00:36:23.519
Yeah, I think I understand why a lot of people

750
00:36:23.519 --> 00:36:25.760
completely turn away. I think for me when it comes

751
00:36:25.760 --> 00:36:30.880
to religion, yes, there are certain hypocrisies and things that

752
00:36:30.920 --> 00:36:33.400
don't make sense to me that I cannot align myself with.

753
00:36:33.800 --> 00:36:36.239
But in the book, just as I do with how

754
00:36:36.239 --> 00:36:39.840
I talk about, say, certain family experiences, I can appreciate

755
00:36:39.920 --> 00:36:43.159
the good in some of my religious upbringing, like the

756
00:36:43.239 --> 00:36:46.039
values for community and love one another, even if it's

757
00:36:46.079 --> 00:36:49.639
not practice that way. But I appreciate those values. But

758
00:36:49.719 --> 00:36:52.400
I do not subscribe to any organized religion, just as

759
00:36:52.440 --> 00:36:55.559
I've said, for example, I have had experiences with intergeneration

760
00:36:55.679 --> 00:36:59.880
or trauma, but it doesn't mean that my entire childhood,

761
00:37:00.119 --> 00:37:03.119
upbringing and family experiences were bad things, can you know,

762
00:37:03.199 --> 00:37:06.760
mutually exist? So I think for religion the way I

763
00:37:06.880 --> 00:37:09.239
like to you know, that's not something I subscribe to.

764
00:37:09.639 --> 00:37:13.719
But I believe that religion is a vehicle that humans

765
00:37:14.079 --> 00:37:16.719
have tried to make ancient spiritual knowledge, you know, digestible

766
00:37:16.760 --> 00:37:19.159
through and so for me, I think it's just bigger

767
00:37:19.199 --> 00:37:22.039
than that, and I in the book, I won't give

768
00:37:22.039 --> 00:37:23.679
away too much, but I talk about it from a

769
00:37:23.719 --> 00:37:26.639
mathematical perspective, which is rich for me because I hate maths.

770
00:37:26.840 --> 00:37:30.639
But I talk about a concept called fractals because fundamentally,

771
00:37:30.960 --> 00:37:36.719
I believe we're all energy and we're all interconnected, and

772
00:37:36.800 --> 00:37:40.800
so we are connected to everything that is, everything that

773
00:37:40.880 --> 00:37:44.800
ever was, and each other. And so I think when

774
00:37:44.880 --> 00:37:47.159
you live with that philosophy and you know that you

775
00:37:47.199 --> 00:37:51.079
are connected to literally the fabric of the universe, the

776
00:37:51.119 --> 00:37:54.480
source of everything that is, you know you're powerful and

777
00:37:54.519 --> 00:37:56.599
you won't just see the divinity in yourself, you'll see

778
00:37:56.599 --> 00:37:59.000
it in other people. And that then is your philosophy

779
00:37:59.000 --> 00:38:02.320
for how you should treat other peop people. So I'm

780
00:38:02.320 --> 00:38:05.199
definitely spiritual in that way. I believe that I am

781
00:38:05.199 --> 00:38:07.480
connected to something bigger and to connect it to other

782
00:38:07.480 --> 00:38:11.760
people and other things. And you know, I still talk

783
00:38:11.800 --> 00:38:15.679
to my grandma, and so that's where I'm at now.

784
00:38:15.920 --> 00:38:17.679
I like to practice a lot of the values of

785
00:38:17.920 --> 00:38:21.119
forgiveness and love and non judgment and things like that.

786
00:38:21.480 --> 00:38:24.280
But yeah, no religion for me, but I look back

787
00:38:24.280 --> 00:38:25.760
on certain parts of it fondly.

788
00:38:26.000 --> 00:38:30.719
Yeah, I love that Maria congratulations on everything that you

789
00:38:30.760 --> 00:38:33.480
have achieved. I will say for anybody who is interested

790
00:38:33.480 --> 00:38:35.679
in the book, it is a great book, and it

791
00:38:35.760 --> 00:38:39.960
is really a not just your story, but it is

792
00:38:40.159 --> 00:38:43.000
a tool that anybody who picks it up can use

793
00:38:43.199 --> 00:38:46.039
to reflect on themselves and their own story and their

794
00:38:46.079 --> 00:38:48.480
own journey. Like there is so much kind of at

795
00:38:48.480 --> 00:38:50.800
the risk of saying, you know, self helpy kind of

796
00:38:50.840 --> 00:38:54.199
in there, Like it's inspiring, and it's what I love most,

797
00:38:54.239 --> 00:38:57.559
I think is the practicality of it, you know, like, Okay,

798
00:38:57.599 --> 00:39:01.199
now you go and ask us off these questions. Yeah,

799
00:39:01.559 --> 00:39:03.760
go on, journal on this, you go and reflect on this.

800
00:39:03.880 --> 00:39:07.119
So I think it really is. It's a really valuable

801
00:39:07.159 --> 00:39:10.320
resource for anybody, apart from being obviously really interesting stories.

802
00:39:10.320 --> 00:39:13.320
So congratulations. Thank you so much for being here today.

803
00:39:13.679 --> 00:39:16.119
That was so generous. It literally fills my heart with

804
00:39:16.199 --> 00:39:18.719
so much joy. What I hear people describing what they

805
00:39:18.760 --> 00:39:20.880
think of the book, and especially you ca as I

806
00:39:20.960 --> 00:39:23.360
respect you and your work and your expertise so much.

807
00:39:23.440 --> 00:39:25.440
That means the world to me. Thank you for having me,

808
00:39:25.480 --> 00:39:27.000
and thank you to everybody for listening.

809
00:39:31.119 --> 00:39:34.440
Maria's brand new book, Unbounded, is available right now in

810
00:39:34.480 --> 00:39:37.440
all bookstores You can find out more about Maria at

811
00:39:37.440 --> 00:39:38.559
her website Maria.

812
00:39:38.320 --> 00:39:39.280
At theatill dot com.

813
00:39:39.320 --> 00:39:43.320
She's Maria Fatil on all social media platforms. If you

814
00:39:43.519 --> 00:39:46.960
love crapy or Happy. If you enjoyed this conversation, please.

815
00:39:46.679 --> 00:39:50.519
Do give us a rating and review. Please clickly follow.

816
00:39:50.320 --> 00:39:53.119
Button on whatever podcast platform you use.

817
00:39:53.480 --> 00:39:54.719
Obviously come and connect with me.

818
00:39:54.840 --> 00:39:59.800
I'm on Instagram Cast done, underscore xo, facebookcast done dot XO,

819
00:40:00.199 --> 00:40:02.639
and I can't wait to catch you next week on

820
00:40:02.679 --> 00:40:12.159
another episode of Crappy to Happy Listener