Jan. 24, 2024

Buying Happiness with Kate Campbell

Buying Happiness with Kate Campbell
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Buying Happiness with Kate Campbell
Buying Happiness with Kate Campbell
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Season 11 Positive Psychology Financial Wellbeing

In this episode, Cass chats with financial educator and host of the Australian Finance Podcast, Kate Campbell, about how to invest your time and money to build your very best life.Whether you have a lot of money or not much at all, Kate and Cass discuss what the research says about how you can invest your most precious resources to gain maximum meaning and fulfilment in life.
Happiness can't be bottled, but taking control of your finances and thinking more deeply about how you allocate your resources will do a long way to increasing your happiness.
Kate shares:

  • strategies for maximising happy with minimal investment
  • how to plan your 2024 to increase your chances of happiness
  • the importance of having conversations about money
  • why it's so important to audit your spending (of time and money) to ensure you're investing in what matters most


Connect with Kate:Rask EducationBuying Happiness book
Connect with Cass:www.crappytohappypod.comhello@crappytohappypod.com 
www.instagram.com/crappytohappypodwww.tiktok.com/crappytohappypod
Join the free 7-day Happiness Challenge:www.cassdunn.com/happiness

Connect with Cass:

www.cassdunn.com
www.instagram.com/cassdunn_xo

Contact Crappy to Happy:

Email: hello@crappytohappypod.com
www.crappytohappypod.com
www.instagram.com/crappytohappypod
www.tiktok.com/@crappytohappypod


Are you a coach, therapist, service provider or solopreneur struggling with self-doubt and imposter syndrome? I'd love to talk to you! (for market research purposes only!)

Book a call with me to share your experience.

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Transcript
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This is Crappita Happy and I am your host Castunn.

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I'm a clinical and coaching psychologist. I'm mindfulness meditation teacher

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and of course author of the.

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Crappita Happy books.

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In this show, I bring you conversations with interesting, inspiring,

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intelligent people who are experts in their field and who

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have something of value to share that will help you

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feel less crappy and more happy.

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Well, we all know that money can't buy happiness? Or

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can it? Today I am speaking with Kate Campbell, who

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is a financial educator and host of the Top Rating

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Australian finance podcast. Kate has recently written a book called

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Buying Happiness, Learn to Invest your time and money Better.

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What I love about this conversation it is not just

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about how to save money, how to pay down debt

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and the importance of those things. It's about how you

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invest all of your resources, your time and your money

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to maximize your happiness. Some really solid practical advice.

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Whether you have a lot of money or not very

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much at all, everybody is going to get something of

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value out of this conversation.

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Here is that conversation with Kate.

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Kate Campbell, Welcome to the Crappy to Happy podcast. Such

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a pleasure to talk.

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To you today. Thank you so much for having me

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Cass and Kate.

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Congratulations on the success of your own podcast.

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It is called the.

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Australian Australian Podcasts Podcasts. There you go, got it.

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Well done and easy to find. The Australian Finance podcast

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hugely successful. People are really really interested in I get

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in money, let's face it, how to get it, how

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to save it, how to make more of it.

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Yeah, we've seen huge growth in the last few years

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and it's fantastic. The people are finally starting to have

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these conversations about money. Even if it's not with their

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friends and family, they're at least able to find ways

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to listen to it online and learn remotely.

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Yeah, it's astonishing, Like some of the top rated podcasts

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in the country or All Around Money, I love it,

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and I mean, I think we all want to become

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more financially empowered, and that is largely because we all

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believe that money will make us happy. So this is

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the topic of our conversation today.

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Right.

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So, I've written three books on happiness myself and as

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a psychologist. One thing I always say to people is

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you know, more money doesn't necessarily mean more happiness, but

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the truth of the matter is it doesn't necessarily mean

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less happiness.

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Doesn't. And also, like when you don't have money, that.

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Is a huge cause of stress and anxiety. So I

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think we just need to get really clear upfront about

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what is the relationship between money and happiness.

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Yeah, I mean, we can all agree that we can't

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just go to the store and buy happiness immediately, but

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there's a lot of links between how we use our

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money and our happiness. And so money does give us

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a very good baseline for happiness. It gives us the

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opportunity for happiness if we're able to meet all of

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our essential needs, like we've got our roof, arour head,

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we've got our electricity, we can put food on the table.

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That gives us a really good baseline to start. And

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often where we get a bit confused is we connect

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the money with material things and we can get a

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little bit distracted about what actually makes us happy because

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it's easy to go I'll be happy when I have

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ten thousand dollars, or I'll be happy when I win

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the lottery, and we forget to figure out what makes

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us happy. Now. So that's something I really encourage people

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do during the book, is really trying to think about

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what makes them happy and it's not that easy to

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answer at the very beginning, and trying to find ways

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to enjoy the process rather than just waiting till they

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reach as particular financial goal, going Okay, well I've got

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this money, then I'll be happy, because chances are if

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you reach that goal, you probably will find another goal.

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The bench mark will move. So finding a way to

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enjoy the process is a really hard thing, but there

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are small ways that we can change the way we

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spend our money a little bit to increase our happiness.

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Yeah, so, Kate, I'm very aware that right now there's

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a cost of living crisis. I'm not in Australia at

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the moment, but I know it's just as bad over

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there as it is here in the UK. Interest rates

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just keep going bloody up and up and up, like

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we're all really feeling the squeeze. So I think as

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a starting point, before we even get to having some

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extra money to spend and how we might spend that

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to maximize our happiness, what are some things the average

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person can do to just kind of shore up to

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feel a little more financially secure and in control when

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things are pretty tied.

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Let's face it, one thing that's kind of not that obvious,

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but it does seem obvious at the end of the day,

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instead of thinking about all of the things we can't

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afford at the moment, thinking about how we can invest

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our time a little bit differently with our relationships with

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friends and family. Because one of the really interesting studies

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I had to look at while researching Buying Happiness was

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the Harvard Adult Development Study that you might have had

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a look at too, cass And they've been following a

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group of people for over eighty years now and their

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children and their grandchildren, and what they found was the

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biggest predictor of happiness and health and wellbeing long term

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was actually the quality of people's relationships. It wasn't how

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famous they were, it wasn't how much money they had,

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it wasn't the qualifications. It was really the quality of

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their relationships and knowing they had people to call on

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in the good times and the bad times. So one

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of the things that we can come back to, especially

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when times are tough financially, what are the low cost

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things we can do with our friends and family that

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don't cost a lot of money but really bring a

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lot of happiness to our lives. And for a lot

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of people, that might just be having a coffee with

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their partner in the morning, or it might be going

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out for a walk with their friend around the park.

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Because when I was researching with our own audience and

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I asked everyone what were some of the low cost

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ways to boost their happiness, it will always involve another person.

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And an interesting exercise you can try is just writing

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a list of really low cost happiness boosters. I like

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to have this on a notes app on my phone,

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and then when I feel like I need to pick

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me up and I need something that's not too expensive,

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I can just look at that list and go, okay,

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go for a walk with a friend around a park.

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I can do that. It doesn't cost a lot, but

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it really gives me a huge happiness boost.

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Yeah, that is such a good point. And I think

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even just that.

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First thing you said about shifting the focus away from

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what you can't afford, or you can't do, or you

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can't have, and redirecting your attention. I mean, that's just

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useful advice anyway, isn't it. But obviously, like you said,

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all of these low cost, no cost things that we

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can do.

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That increase our satisfaction with life.

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That's a really really great tip.

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So then when we do have some disposable income and

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we start looking at how we want to spend our time,

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you've done the research, You've really dug into this, and

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you've come up with in your book Buying Happiness, You've

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come up with kind of five different ways that we

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can use our money that are likely to give us

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the most bang for our buck in terms of happiness.

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So I would really love to run through briefly what

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those five things are. I think, as we're going into

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a new year and people are thinking ahead about their

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plans and their goals and what they want to do

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and how they might spend and save and the things

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they're saving, four can be really useful to have this

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in mind about just keeping a sense of perspective about

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what's actually likely to bring us the most happiness at

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the end of the day and what's not likely to

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What are the things we think are going to make

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us happy, and actually.

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The research is pretty clear that they don't.

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Yeah, So one of the things that is really a

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good way to focus on. It is focusing on experiences

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over things, and that probably sounds really obvious to you

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right now when I'm saying it, but we often forget

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that actually adds a lot of value to our lives,

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and so we get caught up seeing what everyone else

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is doing on social media. We get caught up thinking

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that we should have that latest car or that latest bag.

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But it's actually the experiences that add a lot of

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value to our lives. And one of the reasons, and

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that's another thing that the research shows is anticipation of

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that experience. That is something that gives us a lot

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of happiness. My friend Owen says, if you drool, it

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tastes better. I'm not really as a fan of terminology,

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but it's that anticipation of the experience that gives us

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a happiness boost. We also get a happiness boost from

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the experience itself, and then we also get to remember

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that experience for many years to come. And even better

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if you do it with a friend or family member,

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because you get to one invest in that relationship together

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and then you have someone you can reflect on that

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experience with. So many people listening will be familiar of

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planning a trip maybe within Australia, maybe a backpacking trip

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to Europe. You had months to think about it in advance.

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You got to have that adventure, and then for years

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to come you retell the stories of your trip overseas.

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So that really ticks off a lot of happiness boosting

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methods in one go. So what I really encourage people

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to do is looking out at your calendar for the

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year ahead in twenty twenty four. You might not have

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that much in it already. So a really good challenge

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to do after listening to this episode is go, well,

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can I book five activities in my calendar for the

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year ahead. They don't have to be expensive things. It

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might just be booking in a pottery class with a friend,

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or saying I'm going to host a dinner in March

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and sending out save the dates to everyone. But put

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five things in your calendar that involves someone else that

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you can anticipate in the months to come. And I

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think that's a really good way to add a bit

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of extra happiness to your year in twenty twenty four,

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and it doesn't have to cost a lot of money.

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I love that, And it's so interesting that you say

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that because I do these little three mindful minutes, these

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really short episodes, and the one that I did last

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week was on this topic of savoring and savoring is

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quite different from mindfulness. Mindfulness is about being very present

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in this moment, like right now, whereas savoring and really

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like sucking all the joy out of an experience is

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not just about the present moment. Savoring is actually about

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anticipating future events and also remembering past events. So that's

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really interesting that you have mentioned that as well, just

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reinforcing the benefits of savoring. So, Kate, I noticed in

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your book another misconception that people make is who they

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spend their money on. So this idea of like pro

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social spending is a really interesting topic as well. What

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did your research uncover about that We get.

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A huge benefit from spending money on other people, and

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it doesn't necessarily have to be our friends and family.

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We also benefit hugely if we donate money to charity

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or we volunteer our time. So that's something to really

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consider if you're thinking about ways that you can boost

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your happiness in the year ahead, thinking about well, how

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can I give an extra thirty minutes to my friends

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and family this week, and that might mean giving your

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ear just to listen to what's going on in their lives.

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It might be giving your mom a call, it might

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be helping your neighbor with the groceries, or it might

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be actually volunteering through a more organized, structured organization. But

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just thinking about how you can use your time as

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an asset. We often think about helping other people in

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terms of donating money, but we can also donate our

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time and we also get a really big benefit from

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donating time and money to people that we know. And

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so if you are donating to an organization, if you

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find out, well, who's the end recipient. And that's why

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many organizations you sponsor a particular person or a community

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or a koala or a tree, because you get to

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really connect with where your money's going. So finding ways

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to use your time and money in ways to help

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your community and connect more with other people is a

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really good way to boost your happiness.

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That's such a great point. And interestingly, I think too

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sometimes we actually find it easier to throw a bit

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of money towards the cause if we have the money available,

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as opposed to actually giving up our time and you know,

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doing those things like going and volunteering and helping out

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in person. So I think that's a really good point,

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not just about how we use our money for other

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people's benefit, but also yeah, thinking about how we use

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our time. So time and money, let's talk about that. So,

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you know interestingly too, So I work for myself for

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the longest time time. You know, the reason I do

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the work that I do now is because I really

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didn't want to be in this situation of trading my

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time for money. When you work in a profession like

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I do an hourly rate, you're only getting paid for

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the hour that you're sitting in front of somebody. So

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I was really keen to find other ways to generate

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income that didn't rely on my time. So the time

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money equation is a really interesting one, and in terms

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of how that links to happiness and well being, it's

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not a question in there, but can we just talk

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about the relationship between time and money.

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We often forget that our time is an asset too,

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and it's an asset that we're spending every day and

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that we can't get back. Sure, there's ways that we

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can buy a little bit of our time back, maybe

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by outsourcing something like buying a meal so suddenly I've

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got an extra hour in the evening, but once we've

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spent the day, we can't buy it back. So I

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think it's really important when we're thinking about how we're

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designing our gear and our lives and even our financial goals,

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that we also include time in there as well, because

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there's a lot of things that money can't buy, and

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often time is involved in those things. So in the book,

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I was talking about things like money can't just buy purpose.

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We can't just buy purpose on a silver platter. We

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can't just simply buy our health. Sure we can pay

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for a lot of things, but we do need to

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invest our time in that as well. We can't buy relationships,

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we need to invest time in it. So I think

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these things really go hand in hand because if you

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just solely focus on monetary goals maybe you want to

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buy a property, or you want a certain amount in

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your investment portfolio, or you really want to have a

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certain job title and salary, we can often forget how

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important those other things in life are, like our health

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and relationships. And so that's why the whole learn to

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invest your time and money Better was the tagline for

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the podcast as well, because we didn't want to just

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focus on the number in the spreadsheet, because that's important.

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It's important to give people the skills to budget and

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to invest and to sort out their retirement, but it's

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also important to talk about why we're doing all that

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and why we're working towards particular financial goals, because you

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might be investing and building wealth for forty years, but

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have you actually enjoyed that forty years along the way?

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Because we don't want our financial goals and all the

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things we're working towards to make us miserable, because otherwise

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we have spent forty years of our life that we

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can't get back. So it is a hard trade off

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because there's so many competing things. We do need a

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certain amount of money to cover our living costs and

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to put something away for the future, but we also

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need to think about how we're spending and investing our

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time today. So there's not really a simple answer. It's

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something that we need to keep thinking about and going, well,

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how am I prioritizing my time this year? And maybe

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I'm investing in something like an education course that's going

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to take multiple years, but I'm really enjoying the process

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and That's probably another element to when you're thinking about

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how you're using your time, you want to think about, well,

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what is the process like as well? Because we might

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spend five years working really hard at something. We don't

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want to just leave our happiness to the point where

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we hit that end goal. So if I'm studying a

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five year course like I am at the moment, I

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don't want to go I'm only going to be happy

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when I finally graduate. I want to be able to

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given it such a huge investment of my time, and

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it means there's trade offs. I don't get to spend

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as much time with friends and family, it means I

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need to really enjoy the process in the meantime. So

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when you're thinking about how you're spending your time and

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money this year, thinking about, well, am I enjoying the process?

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Am I getting to do a bit of both? Am

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I getting to enjoy today but also put things aside

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for the future. So it's something to reflect on as

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you plan out your goals for the year ahead of

330
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how you're using the present moment as well as the

331
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future moment.

332
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Yeah, really good point.

333
00:17:04.880 --> 00:17:08.279
It's interesting to think about time and money both as

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resources that we have available to us, and yeah, and

335
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to consider how we spend them the most wisely, you know,

336
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talking about I was talking before about trading my time

337
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for money and wanting to get out of that kind

338
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of transactional arrangement. The other thing is trading money for time,

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you know. And so I often hear people talk about

340
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I can't afford, well, not even I can't afford, just

341
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I feel guilty, for example, paying for a cleaner. I

342
00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:40.119
can easily do that myself. Oh I feel I should

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do that myself. I should cook or you know, whatever

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it is that we do because we can do it

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and not actually really considering the fact that what you're

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giving instead is your time and that is just as valuable.

347
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Yeah, and I think thinking about what you could do,

348
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let's say the cleaning example, because that one comes up

349
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a lot, what would you do instead of that task

350
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and thinking about, well, for you, you might not really

351
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mind cleaning, and it might be a time when you

352
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listen to a podcast, So I'll clean the house on

353
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a Saturday listen to a podcast. For me, I don't

354
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mind that task, and so for me, I don't really

355
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feel like I need to outsource that. But if you

356
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really dislike cleaning, and it's actually taking away from your happiness,

357
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and you have the means in your budget to outsource it.

358
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The research shows that you actually will get a bit

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of a happiness boost from buying some of that time back.

360
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So maybe you suddenly have three hours, but then if

361
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you use that three hours to go for a breakfast

362
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with a friend or do something with that time, then

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that will work as well. But there's a point where

364
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you outsource too many tasks in your life. So that's

365
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also a trade off as well, because we often get

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a lot of meaning from those points of friction in

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our lives, so you don't want to outsource everything. And

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one of the examples a writer, Oliver Berkman, who wrote

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this amazing book called Four Thousand Weeks, told me was

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that think about writing a birthday card to a friend.

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You could just send a text and sure that would

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acknowledge their birthday, but you could also do the task

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that involves a lot more friction of going to the

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store and buying a card, sitting down to write it,

375
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finding your local post office, and mailing it off. And

376
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that is not that takes probably an hour in total,

377
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maybe two. There's a lot more mental load involved there,

378
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but sometimes it's those points of friction that make things

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more meaningful. And sure, you can do you can outsource things,

380
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or you can do a quick thing, but you also

381
00:19:35.680 --> 00:19:38.480
need to think about the fact that sometimes putting more

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time into something does have meaning too. So outsourcing something

383
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so for me that's my tax return. I'll happily pay

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for an accountant each year because that is a lot

385
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of stress off my plate. But it's not outsourcing everything,

386
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so there's always a balance needed.

387
00:19:54.960 --> 00:19:57.079
Such a good point. And also what you said about

388
00:19:57.319 --> 00:19:59.160
like when I outsource something, So let's say I do

389
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get the cleaner in for three hours. It's like, then,

390
00:20:01.000 --> 00:20:03.960
how do I use that three hours the most wisely?

391
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Because I could spend that three hours scrolling on Instagram

392
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or you know, otherwise just kind of frittering away my time.

393
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And sometimes that's fine. Sometimes that's you know, nice little

394
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mental break. Yeah, but it's being intentional then about how

395
00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:23.279
we allocate that that resource that we suddenly find ourselves with.

396
00:20:23.319 --> 00:20:25.559
I think that's a really good point.

397
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Yeah, and a really interesting exercise if you are wanting

398
00:20:28.519 --> 00:20:31.319
to think about how you spend your money and your

399
00:20:31.359 --> 00:20:34.039
time and align it a bit more closely with what

400
00:20:34.119 --> 00:20:36.920
you value is just going through your budget from the

401
00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:40.079
last month and going through your calendar and sort of

402
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categorizing and working out where do you spend the most

403
00:20:43.279 --> 00:20:46.519
time and the most money in broad categories, so it

404
00:20:46.640 --> 00:20:49.640
might be work number one and then sleep number two

405
00:20:49.720 --> 00:20:52.119
or something like that, and then for spending, it could

406
00:20:52.119 --> 00:20:55.039
be your roof and your groceries and your bills. But

407
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if you go past the top three and maybe write

408
00:20:57.960 --> 00:21:00.799
a list of ten, That's what I've done for myself.

409
00:21:00.839 --> 00:21:03.000
I've ridden the list of ten areas I spend the

410
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most time in order, and ten areas I spend the

411
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most money in order. And then when you're thinking about

412
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what you value, you can go, well, how closely can

413
00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:14.160
I align my values and my priorities? And maybe it's

414
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career and relationships and health in whatever order it is

415
00:21:18.440 --> 00:21:20.759
with these two lists of where I spend my time

416
00:21:20.839 --> 00:21:23.640
and money. And you're not going to make huge changes overnight,

417
00:21:23.680 --> 00:21:26.880
but you can slowly start to shift and go, Okay, well,

418
00:21:27.279 --> 00:21:30.880
I'm barely spending any money and time on my health,

419
00:21:31.160 --> 00:21:33.920
and I'm saying that health is really important to me,

420
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So what small change can I make this week? And

421
00:21:36.839 --> 00:21:40.920
maybe it's just spending half an hour more this week

422
00:21:40.960 --> 00:21:43.880
going for a walk to more closely align what I

423
00:21:43.920 --> 00:21:46.480
think is my priority, which is my health, with where

424
00:21:46.480 --> 00:21:48.640
I'm spending my money and my time. And that's just

425
00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:52.200
one way you can start to audit. Basically, audit your calendar,

426
00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:55.480
audit your bank account, and think about where you spending

427
00:21:55.519 --> 00:21:58.720
those assets and how you can spend them to increase

428
00:21:58.759 --> 00:21:59.240
your happiness.

429
00:21:59.319 --> 00:22:03.759
Really, that sounds like a great exercise for somebody to do,

430
00:22:04.519 --> 00:22:05.960
if you've got the guts to do it.

431
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Like I'm thinking, oh God, do I want.

432
00:22:08.759 --> 00:22:10.440
To look what I've spent my money?

433
00:22:11.519 --> 00:22:13.240
That's a challenge, right. I think a lot of people,

434
00:22:13.359 --> 00:22:16.559
especially when it comes to money, people are very avoidant,

435
00:22:16.640 --> 00:22:17.880
like don't want to look at it, Like, yes, we

436
00:22:17.960 --> 00:22:19.559
get through, we do what we need to do, and

437
00:22:19.599 --> 00:22:21.519
the rents paid and the mortgage is paid or whatever,

438
00:22:21.599 --> 00:22:24.799
but beyond that, we don't really like to look at

439
00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:28.319
or talk about where our money is going. You've got

440
00:22:28.319 --> 00:22:30.200
a whole section on that, actually, haven't you about being

441
00:22:30.240 --> 00:22:32.200
more open and talking about money?

442
00:22:32.799 --> 00:22:36.000
Yeah? I think only good things overall happen when we

443
00:22:36.039 --> 00:22:38.240
start talking about money with our friends and family, and

444
00:22:38.240 --> 00:22:41.440
it starts having a ripple effect across our whole community,

445
00:22:41.880 --> 00:22:44.079
and you could start as small as just talking to

446
00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:47.559
a friend about a way you've saved money recently, or

447
00:22:47.759 --> 00:22:50.400
one of your goals, because we love talking about goals,

448
00:22:50.440 --> 00:22:52.359
So you can start by just saying, oh, I really

449
00:22:52.400 --> 00:22:54.880
want to save one thousand dollars this year to do

450
00:22:55.359 --> 00:22:58.119
this activity or go away with my friends at the

451
00:22:58.200 --> 00:23:01.400
end of the year. So starting small with savings, tips

452
00:23:01.440 --> 00:23:04.759
and goals are really good ways to start that conversation

453
00:23:04.880 --> 00:23:07.720
because you don't want to jump straight into the deep end,

454
00:23:07.880 --> 00:23:10.839
especially if neither of you have had a money conversation before.

455
00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:14.559
Suddenly asking them what's your salary, how much is your

456
00:23:14.720 --> 00:23:17.000
net worth? How many properties do you have, what's your

457
00:23:17.000 --> 00:23:19.359
retirement balance? Like that is very confronting.

458
00:23:19.359 --> 00:23:19.960
It's intense.

459
00:23:20.359 --> 00:23:23.440
Yeah, yeah, And I think that's something that I learned

460
00:23:23.480 --> 00:23:25.640
the hard way when I was sort of eighteen and

461
00:23:25.839 --> 00:23:28.440
so excited about learning about finance, and most of my

462
00:23:28.480 --> 00:23:31.640
friends were going, I just want to pay my phone bill,

463
00:23:31.640 --> 00:23:33.440
I want to pay for my groceries. I don't want

464
00:23:33.480 --> 00:23:35.920
to learn about all of this other stuff, and so

465
00:23:36.319 --> 00:23:38.839
many of us don't have the language to have conversations

466
00:23:38.839 --> 00:23:42.720
about money. So starting super small and building up from

467
00:23:42.720 --> 00:23:44.960
there because you slowly want to show the people around

468
00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:48.039
you you're a person that it's okay to have a

469
00:23:48.079 --> 00:23:50.599
money conversation with. You're not going to judge them, You're

470
00:23:50.599 --> 00:23:53.200
not going to make them feel guilty for talking about it.

471
00:23:53.240 --> 00:23:55.799
You're not going to make them feel ashamed because they

472
00:23:55.799 --> 00:23:58.759
spent money on something that you don't value as much.

473
00:23:58.880 --> 00:24:02.079
Because a lot of us grow up hearing language from

474
00:24:02.079 --> 00:24:05.079
our family, from the world around us like you wasted

475
00:24:05.119 --> 00:24:07.240
that money, you wasted your time on that thing, and

476
00:24:07.279 --> 00:24:10.160
that makes us feel really ashamed about where we're spending

477
00:24:10.200 --> 00:24:14.119
our resources. So start having those conversations by just showing

478
00:24:14.160 --> 00:24:16.400
people around you, hey, it's okay to have a money

479
00:24:16.440 --> 00:24:19.920
conversation with me, and if there isn't anyone around you

480
00:24:19.960 --> 00:24:24.119
can have that conversation with. Then finding spaces like Facebook groups,

481
00:24:24.160 --> 00:24:26.759
being aware that there are lots of different opinions on there.

482
00:24:26.759 --> 00:24:30.799
There's a lot of information that's not necessarily good financial information,

483
00:24:30.920 --> 00:24:33.079
but it just starts to show you that, hey, there

484
00:24:33.079 --> 00:24:36.240
are other people having conversations about money, and I can

485
00:24:36.279 --> 00:24:38.319
just be a fly on the wall and just see

486
00:24:38.720 --> 00:24:41.359
things that are out there. Because unless you get to

487
00:24:41.400 --> 00:24:44.720
be exposed to conversations about money. You don't know all

488
00:24:44.759 --> 00:24:47.000
of the options available to you, and it's not until

489
00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:49.519
you put yourself in that room or that virtual room,

490
00:24:49.759 --> 00:24:52.960
that you go, oh, investing something that I can do.

491
00:24:53.200 --> 00:24:55.319
It's not something that I have to be really wealthy

492
00:24:55.359 --> 00:24:56.920
to do. It's not something I have to be really

493
00:24:56.920 --> 00:24:59.720
smart to do. I can I can be an investor too,

494
00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:02.160
And once you put yourself in those rooms, you start

495
00:25:02.200 --> 00:25:04.680
to see there are more options available to me.

496
00:25:05.599 --> 00:25:08.359
Yeah, I think I think one thing that stops people

497
00:25:08.359 --> 00:25:12.400
talking about money too is this like comparison and shame

498
00:25:13.039 --> 00:25:15.599
about especially if you're in a position and I've had friends,

499
00:25:15.640 --> 00:25:17.799
you know, come and talk to me. We've had conversations

500
00:25:17.799 --> 00:25:20.400
with each other about oh, you know, feeling like we

501
00:25:20.440 --> 00:25:24.680
should be further ahead, or feeling like we feeling regret

502
00:25:24.720 --> 00:25:27.319
about decisions we've made, or debt we've run up. And

503
00:25:27.400 --> 00:25:29.640
I think it can be they hard conversations to have,

504
00:25:29.720 --> 00:25:31.920
but they're kind of really freeing conversations to have when

505
00:25:31.960 --> 00:25:34.920
people can start being honest with each other. But you know,

506
00:25:34.920 --> 00:25:37.160
I think you know, you've got some really good advice

507
00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:40.640
in the book too, about kind of freeing yourself from

508
00:25:40.640 --> 00:25:44.640
some of that self judgment and feeling bad about where

509
00:25:44.680 --> 00:25:45.640
you are financially.

510
00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:49.839
Yeah, I think comparison is a really hard thing that

511
00:25:49.880 --> 00:25:53.160
we get stuck with when it comes to money, especially

512
00:25:53.200 --> 00:25:56.160
but just everything. And we instead of getting exposed to

513
00:25:56.200 --> 00:25:59.519
a small community bubble around us, we now get exposed

514
00:25:59.559 --> 00:26:02.759
to millions of people that we never know through social media,

515
00:26:02.799 --> 00:26:05.480
and suddenly we're seeing all these people seem like they

516
00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:07.319
have a lot of money and they've got it all

517
00:26:07.319 --> 00:26:10.240
figured out. But the thing to remember is you just

518
00:26:10.400 --> 00:26:12.799
when you look at someone, you never know if they're

519
00:26:12.839 --> 00:26:15.960
starting one hundred meters behind you or one hundred meters

520
00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:17.680
ahead of you. You don't know if they're in a

521
00:26:17.720 --> 00:26:21.359
substantial amount of financial stress and debt. You don't know

522
00:26:21.400 --> 00:26:23.799
if they were given a leg up, or maybe they

523
00:26:23.799 --> 00:26:26.720
want the lottery. A lot of us have that dream.

524
00:26:26.839 --> 00:26:30.000
But I think it's really important just to think about

525
00:26:30.039 --> 00:26:34.480
your own goals and your own financial situation because that's

526
00:26:34.640 --> 00:26:37.559
where we can make progress. We can't control all of

527
00:26:37.599 --> 00:26:40.519
those people around us, but if we can start narrowing

528
00:26:40.559 --> 00:26:43.400
in on what we want to work towards with our

529
00:26:43.440 --> 00:26:46.599
financial goal, and that might just be getting out of

530
00:26:46.640 --> 00:26:49.440
debt or sorting out an emergency fund, so that if

531
00:26:49.440 --> 00:26:52.119
we need to leave a toxic job or relationship, we've

532
00:26:52.160 --> 00:26:54.920
got some money put aside. I think if we can

533
00:26:55.000 --> 00:26:58.880
just pick a very first goal and go, okay, this

534
00:26:58.960 --> 00:27:01.640
is it. I want to save thousand dollars, and then

535
00:27:01.720 --> 00:27:04.160
work backwards from there on, how can I work towards

536
00:27:04.160 --> 00:27:06.519
it and just sort of put those blinkers on and

537
00:27:06.720 --> 00:27:10.079
slowly And it's not easy start to focus on, well,

538
00:27:10.119 --> 00:27:14.000
how can I take one step to improve my financial

539
00:27:14.039 --> 00:27:16.759
future and be kind to my future self? And how

540
00:27:16.799 --> 00:27:19.880
can I slowly start to tune out all of that

541
00:27:20.079 --> 00:27:22.599
noise around me? And it's not easy, but I think

542
00:27:22.640 --> 00:27:26.119
it's really important. Otherwise we can just get stuck watching

543
00:27:26.519 --> 00:27:29.680
everyone else around us and not make any progress on

544
00:27:29.720 --> 00:27:31.079
our own financial journey.

545
00:27:31.279 --> 00:27:34.160
And I think also that getting really intentional and like

546
00:27:34.200 --> 00:27:36.960
you said, getting clear about financial goals or something I'm

547
00:27:37.000 --> 00:27:38.759
saving for or a debt that I want to pay

548
00:27:38.799 --> 00:27:41.279
down also helps you to be a lot clearer with

549
00:27:41.319 --> 00:27:43.720
your boundaries too. So if you do get invited to

550
00:27:43.759 --> 00:27:47.000
do something you know, you can learn to say no

551
00:27:47.160 --> 00:27:50.519
more easily because you've already decided what is more important

552
00:27:50.960 --> 00:27:54.160
for you. Otherwise it's too easy to just get pulled

553
00:27:54.200 --> 00:27:57.119
along and just keep on spending money here, there, everywhere

554
00:27:57.839 --> 00:28:00.640
and never getting ahead or getting out of that debt.

555
00:28:01.279 --> 00:28:03.400
Yeah, and I think that's really important. If you are,

556
00:28:03.880 --> 00:28:06.559
say a lot of people I speak to us saving

557
00:28:06.640 --> 00:28:10.400
for a first home house deposit, and so to do

558
00:28:10.480 --> 00:28:13.079
that and to achieve that goal in the timeframe they want,

559
00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:16.400
they can't go to every single activity, and they can't

560
00:28:16.400 --> 00:28:19.680
go to every dinner. And if they explain that to

561
00:28:19.759 --> 00:28:22.480
their friends and family and say, hey, look, for the

562
00:28:22.519 --> 00:28:24.599
next two years, I'm going to have to say no

563
00:28:24.720 --> 00:28:27.160
to a few things, but I'm going to propose something

564
00:28:27.200 --> 00:28:30.000
else that we go for a walk instead, or we

565
00:28:30.480 --> 00:28:33.519
do dinner and a barbecue at my place. And then

566
00:28:33.759 --> 00:28:36.920
if they explain that to their friends and family, often

567
00:28:37.079 --> 00:28:39.440
they can understand where they're coming from when they say

568
00:28:39.480 --> 00:28:42.480
no to things. And I think we hopefully all have

569
00:28:42.559 --> 00:28:44.279
a few people in our corner that are going to

570
00:28:44.279 --> 00:28:47.279
be really supportive of our financial goals. But if you

571
00:28:47.359 --> 00:28:50.640
explain why you're saying no to particular things, I think

572
00:28:50.680 --> 00:28:53.319
that makes it a little bit easier rather than just

573
00:28:53.319 --> 00:28:57.680
say no to every invite. That's quite hard on relationships.

574
00:28:58.160 --> 00:28:59.960
Yeah, Yeah, and then people still inviting you because you

575
00:29:00.119 --> 00:29:02.519
never say yes, do anything, but also gives other people

576
00:29:02.519 --> 00:29:04.519
permission to do the same. So you know, you have

577
00:29:04.599 --> 00:29:07.119
that conversation, you open about it, and then somebody else goes, actually,

578
00:29:07.160 --> 00:29:08.880
you know what, I don't want to spend that money either,

579
00:29:09.160 --> 00:29:11.440
because I think sometimes there is just this going with

580
00:29:11.480 --> 00:29:14.079
the crowd, and maybe there's a few people who would

581
00:29:14.119 --> 00:29:15.880
rather not spend that money and would rather put it

582
00:29:15.880 --> 00:29:18.720
towards something else. So you talk in the book, you

583
00:29:18.920 --> 00:29:21.480
open up really talking about Okay, let's just start with

584
00:29:21.599 --> 00:29:25.039
like clearing debt, getting an emergency fund, like just getting

585
00:29:25.079 --> 00:29:29.400
to the basics of shoring up some financial resources. Simple question,

586
00:29:29.759 --> 00:29:32.880
if you've got debt and no emergency fund, should you

587
00:29:32.920 --> 00:29:35.319
pay down the debt first and then start the emergency

588
00:29:35.319 --> 00:29:37.039
fund or should you be working on both of these

589
00:29:37.079 --> 00:29:37.680
at the same time.

590
00:29:38.920 --> 00:29:41.039
I think it's really important that everyone has a little

591
00:29:41.039 --> 00:29:44.240
bit of a cash buffer, because if you have an

592
00:29:44.319 --> 00:29:47.319
unexpected expense, you're going to have to add to the

593
00:29:47.359 --> 00:29:49.799
debt to pay for it. So for a lot of people,

594
00:29:50.119 --> 00:29:53.240
it's just coming up with a small cash buffer and

595
00:29:53.279 --> 00:29:55.680
then while you're doing that, working on a plan to

596
00:29:55.759 --> 00:29:58.359
pay off that debt. In Australia, we have a fantastic

597
00:29:58.440 --> 00:30:01.440
resource called the National Debt help Line, and they offer

598
00:30:01.519 --> 00:30:05.519
free financial counselors that are trained, they're independent, and they

599
00:30:05.559 --> 00:30:08.039
will go into bat for you, talking to banks and

600
00:30:08.359 --> 00:30:13.240
utility providers and anyone that is chasing you up, and

601
00:30:13.279 --> 00:30:15.880
they'll help negotiate things and come up with a really

602
00:30:16.359 --> 00:30:19.160
solid plan for you to follow. So having someone that

603
00:30:19.279 --> 00:30:21.240
really knows what they're talking about when you're in that

604
00:30:21.279 --> 00:30:24.400
situation is worth its weight in gold. So please contact

605
00:30:24.400 --> 00:30:28.200
them if that's you. But I think focusing on finding

606
00:30:28.480 --> 00:30:30.799
working out a plan to paying off that debt, and

607
00:30:31.000 --> 00:30:33.920
there's lots of different approaches to doing that, which I

608
00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:36.079
talk about a few in the National Debt Helpline has

609
00:30:36.160 --> 00:30:38.839
quite a few resources. But also thinking about well, how

610
00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:41.720
you're going to build your financial foundation and make sure

611
00:30:41.759 --> 00:30:44.680
you've got a cash buffer that when an emergency comes

612
00:30:44.720 --> 00:30:47.799
up or when an unexpected expense comes up, you've also

613
00:30:47.839 --> 00:30:51.880
got some money aside for that. And building that financial

614
00:30:51.920 --> 00:30:55.279
foundation of getting out of debt, building an emergency fund

615
00:30:55.400 --> 00:30:58.480
are really essential skills that can be converted to lots

616
00:30:58.480 --> 00:31:01.039
of other different skills because you're building that habit of

617
00:31:01.400 --> 00:31:04.680
putting money aside every month and maybe it's for debt

618
00:31:04.759 --> 00:31:06.480
at this paying off debt at the start, but then

619
00:31:06.519 --> 00:31:08.839
you can use that money to start saving for a goal.

620
00:31:09.000 --> 00:31:12.960
So it's actually a really good process to empower you

621
00:31:13.039 --> 00:31:15.359
towards the rest of your financial goals because you get

622
00:31:15.400 --> 00:31:19.359
to build really strong habits of putting money aside each month,

623
00:31:19.400 --> 00:31:21.880
and then after that you can go, Okay, well now

624
00:31:21.920 --> 00:31:24.720
I want to save five thousand dollars or I want

625
00:31:24.759 --> 00:31:27.160
to make my very first investment, and you can just

626
00:31:27.799 --> 00:31:30.319
put your goal and all of those skills you've mastered

627
00:31:30.599 --> 00:31:33.119
in a slightly different direction that moves you the next

628
00:31:33.160 --> 00:31:33.799
step forward.

629
00:31:34.359 --> 00:31:36.559
Yeah, and you've got loads of suggestions in the book

630
00:31:36.559 --> 00:31:38.279
about different ways that you can start to do that

631
00:31:38.400 --> 00:31:42.920
and allocate funds so that you're ticking all of those boxes,

632
00:31:42.920 --> 00:31:46.039
which is really useful. I do really like that there's

633
00:31:46.079 --> 00:31:48.559
some really solid kind of financial advice in there. But

634
00:31:48.599 --> 00:31:52.000
there's also this idea of like really reviewing values and

635
00:31:52.160 --> 00:31:55.039
what matters to you and then so, like you said,

636
00:31:55.160 --> 00:31:58.960
not just accumulating money, making money, investing money, but actually

637
00:31:59.039 --> 00:32:02.000
then how you spending that in a way that is

638
00:32:02.200 --> 00:32:05.319
going to give you the most meaning and fulfillment, which

639
00:32:05.359 --> 00:32:08.839
is what I'm all about. So it's great. I really

640
00:32:08.839 --> 00:32:12.519
appreciate you writing the book. Is there any last tips

641
00:32:12.559 --> 00:32:16.000
or advice? There's loads more in the book Kate suggestions

642
00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:18.119
for people, but is there any last tips that you

643
00:32:18.119 --> 00:32:21.960
would share about how you can buy happiness?

644
00:32:23.160 --> 00:32:25.920
I think one of the really important parts of this puzzle,

645
00:32:25.960 --> 00:32:27.799
and we haven't really talked about it today, but it's

646
00:32:27.839 --> 00:32:30.759
the idea of investing, and whether it's investing in your time,

647
00:32:30.880 --> 00:32:34.400
or your relationships or your financial future, it's a really

648
00:32:34.480 --> 00:32:38.200
important skill that not many of us knew about growing up.

649
00:32:38.240 --> 00:32:41.000
But it's something we should be talking more and more about.

650
00:32:41.079 --> 00:32:44.160
And many people don't invest because they think it's too hard,

651
00:32:44.319 --> 00:32:46.200
it's too confusing. They think they need to know a

652
00:32:46.200 --> 00:32:47.759
lot of money or they need to have a lot

653
00:32:47.759 --> 00:32:50.640
of money to invest. And i'd really encourage you if

654
00:32:50.680 --> 00:32:53.640
this is you and you have never invested before, that

655
00:32:54.039 --> 00:32:57.200
maybe make this a goal to learn about investing in

656
00:32:57.359 --> 00:33:00.640
twenty twenty four, because, let me tell you, it is

657
00:33:00.720 --> 00:33:03.920
a lot less complicated then it seems. The media makes

658
00:33:03.960 --> 00:33:06.720
it seem like it's this very complicated thing that you

659
00:33:06.759 --> 00:33:09.480
have to be the Wolf of Wall Street to understand.

660
00:33:09.559 --> 00:33:12.000
And if you've watched that movie, it doesn't turn out

661
00:33:12.079 --> 00:33:15.480
so well, but thinking you can do it with five dollars.

662
00:33:15.559 --> 00:33:18.079
You don't have to have a commerce degree to start

663
00:33:18.119 --> 00:33:21.000
investing and it can be simple and you can be

664
00:33:21.039 --> 00:33:24.119
an investor too, So if you do want more resources,

665
00:33:24.160 --> 00:33:26.559
we do run through the basics of investing and how

666
00:33:26.559 --> 00:33:29.559
to get started on the Australian Finance podcast. But I

667
00:33:29.720 --> 00:33:33.279
just really encourage you get curious, be a owner of

668
00:33:33.279 --> 00:33:35.799
the economy, not just a consumer of the economy, and

669
00:33:35.839 --> 00:33:39.079
it's really empowering to invest in your own financial future.

670
00:33:40.319 --> 00:33:42.720
That is so good that you included that, because I

671
00:33:42.759 --> 00:33:44.240
was going to ask you about investing and I thought, oh,

672
00:33:44.240 --> 00:33:45.519
we've run out of time, so I can't.

673
00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:47.200
I'm glad that you tack that on.

674
00:33:47.519 --> 00:33:49.480
But while we are talking about it now, if I

675
00:33:49.480 --> 00:33:51.960
can take a little bit more time this five dollar thing,

676
00:33:52.440 --> 00:33:54.640
how do you start with five dollars? Can you just

677
00:33:54.759 --> 00:33:57.240
name me like a platform or somewhere that I can

678
00:33:57.279 --> 00:33:59.519
go to and if a listener listening can go to

679
00:33:59.680 --> 00:34:02.680
where I can literally start investing with five bucks.

680
00:34:03.960 --> 00:34:07.000
One of the options in Australia is called Raise. I

681
00:34:07.039 --> 00:34:09.960
don't have any affiliation with them, but they are one platform.

682
00:34:10.239 --> 00:34:12.760
Do your research, make sure you understand what you're investing

683
00:34:12.800 --> 00:34:15.000
in and you read all the legal documents. But that

684
00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:18.000
is one way you can start with five dollars and

685
00:34:18.280 --> 00:34:21.639
you can start feeling the experience of being an investor

686
00:34:21.760 --> 00:34:23.239
and how empowering that can be.

687
00:34:23.840 --> 00:34:27.000
Amazing. I'm going to look at that website. Thank you

688
00:34:27.119 --> 00:34:30.039
so much, Kay, I really enjoyed this conversation. Thanks for

689
00:34:30.079 --> 00:34:34.000
your time and buying Happiness. Learn to Invest Your time

690
00:34:34.039 --> 00:34:38.079
and Money Better is available in all bookstores. Where else

691
00:34:38.079 --> 00:34:43.199
can people find you? Obviously the Australian finance podcast website. Kay,

692
00:34:43.320 --> 00:34:45.159
Where can they find you?

693
00:34:45.159 --> 00:34:48.360
You can head to RASK Education and we have twenty

694
00:34:48.360 --> 00:34:52.039
five thousand students taking our free financial education courses covering

695
00:34:52.079 --> 00:34:55.559
everything from making your very first investment to buying a property.

696
00:34:55.800 --> 00:34:56.400
Amazing.

697
00:34:56.880 --> 00:34:59.119
Thanks Kate, thanks so much for having me kas.

698
00:35:00.719 --> 00:35:03.400
If you enjoy this conversation, please share it with a friend.

699
00:35:03.800 --> 00:35:06.400
Hit the plus button wherever you listen to subscribe so

700
00:35:06.440 --> 00:35:08.760
that you never miss an episode, and maybe, if you

701
00:35:08.840 --> 00:35:11.119
really like the show, think about leaving us a five

702
00:35:11.159 --> 00:35:14.920
star rating and review. Catch up with me caston dot Com,

703
00:35:14.960 --> 00:35:18.360
follow me on Instagram, cast on underscore XO or Crappy

704
00:35:18.400 --> 00:35:21.719
to Happy pod on Instagram as well. Thank you so

705
00:35:21.800 --> 00:35:24.239
much for being here. I can't wait to catch you

706
00:35:24.280 --> 00:35:26.199
on the next episode of Crappy to Happy