Challenging toxic wellness culture and gender rules with Steph Claire Smith

0:02 A listener production. This is Crappita Happy and I am your host Castunn. I'm a clinical and coaching psychologist and mindfulness meditation teacher and of course author of the Crappita Happy books. In this show, I bring you conversations with interesting, inspiring, intelligent people who are experts in their field and who have something of value to share that will help you feel less crappy and more happy. Steph Claire Smith is a model, a business owner, author, podcast host, and she is a wife and mum to two year old Harvey. Together with her best friend Laura Henshaw, Steph co founded Kick formerly known as Keep It Cleaner, a wellness app with a mission to kick toxic wellness rules and be a champion for change, encouraging women to embrace a healthy and happy lifestyle, prioritize the mental and physical wellbeing without succumbing to harmful trends and unrealistic expectations. Steph joins me on the Crappy to Happy podcast to talk about where it all began, why this mission matters to her, the gender bias she experiences as a founder and also the primary breadwinner in her family, and the big plans that she and Laura have for the future of Kick Now. By the way, Steph is also generously offered Crappy to Happy listeners a free month on the Kick app.

1:32 Stay tuned to the end of the show to find out how you can grab that offer. Right now, here's my chat with Steph. Steph Klair Smith, Welcome to the Crappy to Happy podcast. Thank you. I'm so excited. Yeah, I'm so happy to have a chat with you, Steph. I have watched you and Laura grow your Kick company since probably a few years ago. And I don't know if people would know the backstory, but I was working for a cop like a digital's kind of well being company, helping to create content, and they asked me if I would be interested to create some I think it was meditation scripts or something for this new program that was coming out for these Kick girls.

2:12 And I was like, who are the Kick Girls? And they're like, you know, keep it cleaner, Steph and Laura. And to be honest, like I didn't know who you were, but I quickly found out who you were. That was from the very earliest days of your Kick program. Then I realized that you had like product lines and you have gone on to really grow this company. I would love to know. Where did it all actually begin, because I came in kind of at that like a fair way into the evolution I guess of Kick, But where did it begin? What was the inspiration for you and Laura creating this business together? So it's really funny if we've come full circle with that, cas, but that would have been in twenty seventeen when we had a program with another company. That's before we launched Kick our business. But no, we started technically in twenty fifteen with an e book and there was thirty seven of mine and Laura's favorite recipes in this e book.

3:08 And why it was created, well, Laura and I met in twenty thirteen through modeling, and it was one of those friendships where you met the person and you just felt like you'd known them for years and you were. Kind of like, where have you been all my life? We were very much the yin to each other's yang, and it just it was just a really nice fit of a friendship. But we both then spent twenty fourteen traveling, so I moved over to the States for about ten months and Laura did a few months in Europe for modeling. And in that time we both kind of hit our lowest points when it comes to I suppose the way we looked at ourselves, our confidence in ourselves, our body confidence, and we had really poor relationships with food and exercise.

3:50 We were both really fortunate that we grew up in families where you know, the word diet wasn't thrown around. My mum didn't even speak of insecurities of hers until I was like an adult. One day. I really remember it, like this pivotal moment where I went shopping with her for a dress and I reckon. I was like twenty, and she was trying to. Dress on and she said, oh, no, I like to cover the top of my arms, or I like a dress to go past my knees because I don't like my thighs. And that was the first time I'd ever heard herself kind of took down to her body. And I look back at that now like so grateful. Because I know from friends who have had mums who have gone from you know, fad diets and hated on their bodies in front of them, that they've really kind of seen that as normal. I supose and grown up with it. So I think for two people who grew up without those kind of that kind of chatter or pressure, had a really healthy relationship with both food and exercise, loved sport, loved being active to them, diving into the industry of modeling, and being a part of this new era of Instagram where you can have access to all these people you aspire to look like.

4:56 And know exactly what they're eating and all that sort of stuff. We definitely fell into the tre app all of comparing ourselves to others, comparing our diets, and I exercised regime to others and definitely focused on, I suppose the wrong motive. So like both of us, we exercised a certain way and ate a certain way purely for the way that we looked like. We had this outcome that we wanted and. Fortunately so unfortunately it was just to get as small as possible. And that was also trending at the time, I would say as well, which we've seen throughout history that like body types have trended, that've come and gone and kind of circle round and round again. And it's just so sad. When you really think about it, because we're born with certain genetics, you know, we all have very different lifestyles.

5:38 There are so many things, there's so many reasons why we don't all look the same, and whenever these trends come up that make you feel like you need to fit into a certain mold, it's just. It's so sad. And so I think Laura and I, whilst we were in the depth of our struggles, we really bonded with each other on that, and I think what we both noticed was that, especially in the space of social media, there was like these two different kind of things that were happening around health. One was like the real fitness fanatic that was like. Low calorie meals, boiled chicken and broccoli, you know, boring low calorie meals for food, or if you were like on the wellness space, it was kind of like gwenos Paltrow two hundred dollars to put together a beetroot cake that just tastes like beetroot and you had to go to a super food store to like find the ingredients.

6:26 You couldn't just get them at Coles or Woolies. There was nothing really in between. That kind of was what we grew up with. The food we grew up with just you know, like your pasta bakes and your. Meat and free edge and all of that sort of stuff that was still. Enjoyable and didn't have this you know, high focus on calories and really restrictive ingredients. And all that sort of stuff. So that's where the ebook, the idea of the e book came, and at first, I would say it was much more of a passion project, although there was a lot of business thought into it as well. I just don't think we thought it was going to be as successful as it was. But we had two spons on board, two different brands that were mentioned, yeah. Throughout a lot of the ingredients. One was a yoga company and the other was a I think it was like a powdered kind of like cackl powder and all that sort of stuff, and they were mentioned in the ingredients and so they paid for a spot in the ebook. And these were brands that we both worked with on our platforms before. We were very fortunate to have already grown a bit of a profile.

7:23 I think at the time I had about four hundred thousand followers already and that was wow, fifteen that's massive. Yeah, it was especially. Massive, Yeah, and also very savvy, very savvy to get sponsors for an ebooks straight up front, because how old were you both at the time. Well, so I would have oh my god, that's good maths, I reckon. I was twenty one when we launched, and I will say that it had come from learning. So like when Instagram first came out and. My following started to grow, there was different brands that worked with me in a way of just kind of sending me product and I was so excited to get free stuff that I would like post about it. And that was kind of how it started. And that's how it worked in the beginning. And then you know, I started to realize a lot of those clients kept coming back and back and back and wanting more and more, as I was like, obviously I must be selling something here, and so it did kind of spark a bit of you know, interest to want to talk to my community that i'd grown about something that I really cared about and help them in some way. And also I suppose use my platform not just for good, but also in a way that I was going to profit from it as well. And it just got a response that we were not prepared for. So from there a community started to form and they wanted more and not only did they want more, but we also wanted to share more, and so it went from an ebook to a subscription website which had three recipes and one workout uploaded per month, so not a lot of content, but people did subscribe.

8:55 And I think the best thing about our community from the getting, especially those of the ebook. Our ebook was not anything special like it was. We didn't wait for it to be perfect to release it. I mean, I think there was like twenty or spelling mistakes even in the first release, but even the recipes, like the photographs. Are not ideal, and it was it was just not the best design or anything. But I think if you if you look back at something you started with, I think anyone would be able to relate to not feeling, you know, super proud of. What it looked like. But because our images weren't that great, people felt like they could create our you know, muffins and banana bread and it looked better than the photos. So they were sharing it and posting a lot about it.

9:37 And so then this community started to grow, and it was this beautiful community of people that were sick of diet culture and those quick fixes and messaging and yeah, I suppose from there we went to work with the company that you were speaking about earlier in twenty seventeen, and we were working with them for a year, learned a lot through that process, and I think the passion to want to do more just kept growing in our valleies. And that's when we left that and went off on our own and started from scratch with Kick and launched the app in twenty eighteen. And it's grown from strength to strength. Was it really important to you when you talk about going out on your own to really have full kind of creative control over the app and the program?

10:21 Yeah? Absolutely, and I mean for sure. And I suppose that company in particular, like they were working with a few different programs, and so they were capturing learnings from different programs, and one thing that they kept questioning us on was certain messaging that they knew from using it throughout the programs, like transformations before and after, these kind of promises of you know, changing physical appearance and all that sort of stuff that really works. In paid marketing. That kind of kept coming up as like something, do you want to try it? And that was something we had to keep pushing back on because it just did not align with our values and it's. Something that we've stuck to this day. And sure it you might have got a subscribe as quicker or unfortunately is something that people do buy into, but it's just it didn't ever feel right and it wasn't the reason we started in the first place.

11:12 So we're really proud that we've stuck to that. Yeah, and you've recently had a rebrand. I'd love to just talk fast forward to now and the evolution of Kick and the messaging. Where is it at now? Yeah? Absolutely, I think as the years have gone by, we've kind of seen that we definitely trying to be bolder in the space. I think the noise of diet culture and stuff isn't dying as quickly as we hoped it would. There's definitely much more of a holistic approach out there, and there's so many options and it's great and we're so proud to be a part of an industry that does a lot of good. However, there is still so much wrong with the industry, and we're in a position where, because of what we've always stood for, we can be really bold about it and really stand strong against toxic diet culture. Things quick fixes and just restrictive diety things that aren't sustainable. And that's what kicks all about, is just finding sustainable ways that you can build healthy habits and find what works for you because everyone's idea of living a healthy life is different and that's okay. So for us changing the name from keep It Cleaner to Kick, that was a big one because we no longer had this I suppose strong. We didn't think the word cleaner really approached the holistic approach that we have with the fitness and mindfulness and everything involved, and kick being such a short, punchy word as well, it just felt more fun and powerful and bold, which is the.

12:38 Direction we're going. So it was a really exciting rebrand because it meant that we can just be louder in the space and we've made it our mission to be so we've kind of publicly said this is what we're going to do. Hold us to account, and we're really excited about it, and it got a really really great response, which we're really proud of. Yeah, I love it. I was really excited when I saw that as well, and just being really even the fact that you go girls with sorry girls, young women, that sounds it's fine. I'm one of those people that don't get offended by that. Girls. But even with the audience that you have, just saying you know, the word clean or cleaner is you know, it's loaded and it's not the messaging that we want to send. Like there'd be a lot of people who would go, oh, actually, like maybe I hadn't even thought about that, but that's but it's true, Like we need to change how we communicate the language that we use to be aligned with you know what the mission is, which is that holistic health and well being.

13:34 So I was excited to see it. Yeah, thank you. I mean, I think I think the word clean it definitely has its like problematic things, and it can trigger people in very different ways. And I think I think those areas where it's still necessary and it still makes sense, Like but at the end of the day, with what we do holistically, it didn't. And so yeah, we're really really comfortable and happy with that that way forward. You and law Laura have been friends for such a long time now and now you run this business together. I mean it's an. Empire basically, but how do you manage being business partners and best friends? How do you manage conflict. Have there been points of difference. I'm just curious to understand how you keep those boundaries.

14:19 It's an interesting one and I know why it comes up a lot because I have had experience where working with friends hasn't gone, you know, the most amazing way, and so I know it's not for everyone, and it doesn't work for every friendship, but for Laura and I think we were so aligned from the very beginning of what we wanted from Kick and who we wanted to reach and yeah, the impact that we wanted to have. We're so aligned and all of that, and we still are now that that has been our biggest driver, and that's our biggest why So I think you know, when you go into business with someone and it's about money or it's about success or you know, labels and all that sort of stuff, that's when things can get you know, a bit dark and you know, not so great. But because it's not about that for us, and it's just about helping as many people as we can and reaching them in many different ways and using our different unique strengths to do that. It's that's what's kept it really strong.

15:16 But I would say through that process there's been a lot of a lot of communication. We talk every single day, and we talk really, really openly, and we've learned over the years. At any time we've held on to anything because you know, maybe we don't want to put something else on the other person's plate, because we know they're already busy and we don't want to stress them out, and it's probably something we're overthinking, so we've try and push it to the back of our minds and just move on. Anytime and the rest have done that, it's only boiled up to something worse, and then when we finally had the conversation, it's all fine and like it was all kind of most of it was in your head and if anything was. In fact true, you can work through it. And so that's something we've learned, and I think that only comes with experience and years of working together. Again, I think it's becoming more and more important that these conversations have had At the bigger we are getting, you know, we're talking about raising money and talking to investors, and that's.

16:11 Like a whole different kettle of fish. Because Laura and I currently are the only shareholders of the company, so obviously when it comes to raising money and having other people on the board and all that sort of stuff. It's different business changes and yeah, so we've definitely made sure that you know, our friendship is incredibly important through this process, and you know, honesty with each other and open communication is what's kept us strong. It's lovely to watch the friendship. I think that's a friendship that many people aspire to throughout your business evolution. Step you on a personal level, have got married, You've had a baby, Little Harvey just turned to right, and you are the breadwinner in your family.

16:55 You've spoken openly about this. I'm curious to know how much discussion was there with Josh about that decision for him to be the stay at home parent and for you to be the working parent. Was it a no brainer or was it something you kind of had to work through. Well, So, to take it back to I suppose the scene of where we were at in life. We were in the middle of COVID in Melbourne, where both of our lives had shifted quite dramatically. We were both living very spontaneous lives that often took us into state or overseas monthly even weekly, and we were outside of kick we were also a part of another business, which Josh.

17:36 That was his day to day throughout this time. We were coming to a point where Kick was going so well, which was obviously so amazing, but it was getting to a point where I wasn't able to be involved in that other business and Josh's I suppose love for it wasn't there. And when we were talking about having a child, it was also the reality of trying to both balance our own businesses at the same time with having a kid. Whether or not we wanted to do that, and for a period of time, we wanted to make it work, and so when I was pregnant, we were both still working on that business. But I think towards the end, when everything was happening with Kick, and I knew that I wouldn't like my matt leave was going to look very different to others. And I mean, I did have a very good matt leave, and I'm very happy with the balance that I was able to have, especially within that first year, but.

18:29 You know, I was like I was missing out so much in work. I put myself in the weekly meetings from I think when he was like two or three weeks old, just so I could be up to date with everything, I just didn't have the day to day responsibilities, you know. Yeah, So we made that decision and Josh decided to leave that company. We both did, and so that obviously opened up a lot of time for him, and we did have a discussion of like, you know, is there something else that you want to get into. He's got a background of project management in shop fitting, which he did for like eight years, so he had kind of options of where he could go. But he was really really excited about the idea of being a father and kind of taking that you know, stay at home dad roll on.

19:12 And I was really excited about it too, because I think for me going back to work, having Harvey was I always knew I wanted to be a mom. I knew it was something from a very young age. I knew I wanted to be a mom, and I wanted it to happen early. But I think as soon as I had Harvey, I was like. Wow, this is so fulfilling. He just changed my life for the better in so many ways. And so I think I like, I obviously I acknowledged that I'm so fortunate I would have had the choice to have gone back to work. And I chose to, and I wanted to because Kick fulfilled me in a whole other way. And I'm obviously it was my first baby in so many ways too. But I think just having an honest conversation with Josh where I knew that my involvement with Kick was going to be more than just like a nine to five or I could which off outside of work hours, because when you're a business owner, you're just so consumed by it all. I kind of was really comforted by the idea of him taking on a lot of the home responsibility and harvey responsibility as my partner, and.

20:13 He was just so stoked by it. So it was kind of a no brainer. And I think when we were telling friends and family, close friends and family, they understood. But at the same time, it's not something that's common in any of our friends and family. We were also the first in our closest friendship groups to have a child as well, so that was different. But I think the one difference was like a lot of people were kind of asking Josh, oh, yeah, but like what's next, or you know, they were thinking it was kind of just an interim because he left the other business until he figured out what he wanted to do. He'll just do this for a little bit, but he was like, oh no, I'm kind. Of doing this for the foreseeable future, and like maybe you know kindergarten, which again we're fortunate to do that. We're in that position where we can do that. I think it was just about having an open communication about it, and we've had to have that conversation again and again I've reminded him that if at any point he you know, has that itch, because we don't necessarily have to have two incomes, but if he wanted to have something else to go through, and like, you know, it's a lot on your mental load to be a stay at home parent, it's and your physical I think people who stay at home are incredible what they do, and it's definitely its own job and its own right.

21:23 But we've had that chat about like if he wanted to if an opportunity came up and he wanted to take it, like what was that would that look like? And would we get Harvey into daycare and all that sort of stuff. But he's so happy right now and he's killing it and he's he's loving it. So for now, this is this is what we're doing. But yeah, we'll see and obviously, like the world is changing and that everyone knows what's happening with inflation and everything right now, so we'll obviously have to keep an eye on that like everyone else is. But yeah, I think for now, he's just doing such a good job and it's helping me mentally as well, knowing that they're having this. Beautiful bond at home every day. And I think the biggest fear I had was being the working parent. Would I not have that kind of like mother mother son, I don't know, relationship to a mother that might have spent more time at home, But that's absolutely not the case. Like, we've definitely still got a very very special bond and a different one to what he has with Josh. So it's been nice and reassuring going through that.

22:22 Yeah, I remember when I was the stay at home parent and I went back to UNI really early, I don't know, eight or nine months, needed to get out of the house, but I remember feeling really resentful sometimes when my husband got to just walk out the door and I didn't, And so I guess I was curious to know has that come up in reverse, Like has there been moments where I understand Josh loves it and I obviously loved being with my daughter as well, but have there been those moments where he's not loved it? Yeah, I think I think what's been really refreshing for it to be reversed, and I suppose against what has been traditionally expect in society, is that I've had girlfriends who have had kids, and I know what they've gone through as the stay at home parent with a partner who has a full time job and isn't necessarily around all the time, and the kind of struggles and stuff that they go through and trying to find time to exercise or time to get a drink with a girlfriend, like just the small things in life and how hard that is to fit in. And so I think going into this, I was like, Okay, no, we are going to have this balance. Like from the get go, just because I'm the working parent doesn't mean that I don't help around the house or I don't, you know, look at things for Harvey, like his appointments and his school stuff and all that sort of stuff. And just because I'm the working parent doesn't mean I can just call Josh and being like hey, I'm going out for dinner tonight, I'm not going to be home. It's like, let's talk things through, schedule things in with each other. And I actively try and almost push Josh to make plans so that he gets out of the house and sees friends, because that's another way we're pretty different, is I recharge

23:55 with alone time and he recharges seeing and communicating with other people. And because he's with a toddler all day and none of his friends, not sorry, not a lot of friends of his are available to see throughout the week, he kind of craves that social time to recharge. And so I'll often be like, are you going to make plans this weekend? Just like let me know, and we'll do that both ways. And like, for example, I've made sure that in the mornings, he's got priority to go to the gym if he wants to, because I'm happy to soak up that time with Harvey before I've got to go to work. And I will just make because I literally follow our workouts on the kickapp and I do them from home, so I can just fit that in around my work schedule or even in the land room with Harvey if I have to I've wanted to kind of encourage Josh to take that time out for himself before a full day.

24:43 So I think for us, it's more about just like having those very even split expectations, having conversations about everything. And I think we can all take a lot of inspiration from same sex couples because it's something that they often would have to have these conversation is about, because it's not like there's some society societal norm of. Like who does what? If those conversations would be so open, and I think that's something that we could all learn a lot from. Yeah, true, so true? And what about the public feedback about that decision? Stuff? Like you've talked about this as well, So. What kind of negative I guess you're a female founder and a CEO of a company, you're a full time working parent with a stay at home partner in both of those roles as a businesswoman and even as a mother, Like, what is the pushback that you I don't mean pushback, I mean feedback from the public. Have you experienced kind of gender discrimination in business? And I guess then I'll go on and say, like what kind of feedback do you get as a as a mum.

25:43 Yeah, in business, I have a funny relationship with it because like I try not to let it get to me. And it's not always from men either, Like a lot of the time judgment can come from other women. But I think for me it's just I know not everyone I don't know maybe understands my value or what I do to day to day, and that's okay. I think it used to really annoy me and I feel like I needed to prove myself, but now I just I know what I do, and I suppose the people that I care about their the opinions that matter the most to me. But I suppose when it comes to gender discrimination, I mean there's definitely boardrooms we've sat in with a lot of you know, comly middle aged white men who almost want to pat you on the back like a little girl after you show a certain presentation and just yeah, the tone of voice and way of talking to you, talking down to you. You just couldn't imagine them doing it to your male counterpoint part. So that's absolutely something that happens. But again I think it I either ignore it or sometimes it just ignites a little fire in my maley to be like, well, yeah, it's fine then you know, you know, But when it comes to being a mum and the judgment I've received, I think there's just people who are so stuck in traditional I think views.

27:02 Of what a mother or what a good mother is. And I think what I've learned from being a mum myself is that there is so many ways to do it, and not just being mum. There are so many ways to parent and you've just got to figure out what works for you, and not everyone is going to agree with what you do. And there is a lot of people who. Didn't agree with Josh being the story at home parent and me going back to work because they thought that there was some sort of I don't know, by nature's course bond that I was missing out on as a mother, and that kind of thing was thrown around towards the beginning. But I think it's quiet and down as I've been louder about not letting it affect me, because the truth is, when I was feeling whenever I am feeling insecure or guilty, I'm in This morning, I literally cried.

27:45 I had a hard morning. This morning. I was feeling mum guilt hardcore because more often than not, I can leave the house and drive out that driveway and Harvey is happily waving at me and saying buye. Mom, by mom, love you, and it's all good. But today was one of those days where he did not want me to go, and he was crying and screaming and reaching out to me, and my heart was like breaking. As I was leaving, it felt worst. And I got to the office and not only that, but I also felt like the whole way to the office, I was thinking about how much better my morning could have been with him, how much more engaged I could have been, how I should have put my phone away and played more games with him and made the most of that time, like what are you doing?

28:28 And judging myself. And I got into the office and saw Kat, who was literally our first employee and kick and still works with us, and she's the mother as well similar age little boy, and she was talking about a hard night she's had because he's unwell, and we were talking about our mornings and she said, oh, I saw because actually ended up doing a story about it. She's like, I saw your story, and it just it hit home for me. And then I just started crying with her and I was like, I'm sorry to but it's just like that mum guilt still hits me. So I think on days like today, if I get those comments, that can still trigger that insecurity or that feeling of guilt, and I can still feel really shit about it. But on good days, I know that what I'm doing is totally fine and really healthy and I don't care what anyone else thinks. Yeah, but it definitely can still hit me on certain days.

29:18 Yeah, like all of us, I mean, we've all. I saw your story and I thought, oh my god. I mean I have had that same experience, like leaving my daughter at daycare and just like crying all the way to wherever I was going, like what am I doing? I think every mother experiences that. So I think that's a mother thing. Do you and dads feel that. I've often talked. I've often talked to women in my community about this, Like people took I read somewhere online parent guilt because I was looking up mum guilt and I was like, what the fuck's parent guilt. It's a mother thing, it's mother guilt. Yeah, would you agree? I think it's funny, right, because it's often like I do think this often because Josh will talk it about, you know, needing us time and like we should book in a weekend away and like just have some time together.

30:05 And I think that's been the really hard thing for us, is trying to carve out time for each other again and nurturing our relationship as a couple, not just as a family. And I think, you know, when those kind of conversations come up, my mind instantly goes, well, weekends. Usually my time with Harvey, So can we maybe just make it one night, or like can he come with us? Or and Josh is kind of like, you know, but we really need this time, So I think, but that could just be as well that Josh is with him all week and he's like ready to handball. Into someone else. But I do think there's like a little bit of a difference where maybe he's like not as anxious or upset, but in saying that, there's been times where you know, Josh might have had to be away for a couple of nights and he'll be like, oh, I really missed Harvey or I really miss Harvey. So I think definitely they still feel it, but whether it's to the emotional level that mothers do.

30:59 I don't know. I haven't seen enough of that, but it is. It is quite funny because yeah, that's the hardest part, is. Like when you have to put time aside for both your relationship, but then also you want to soak up that time with your with your kids. It's it's a hard one to balance. Yeah, it really is. And there's they're little for such a short period of time. And I know everybody says that, and I remember people used to say that to me and I go, well, feel a bloody eternity, actually, but it is you look back in hindsight and go, actually, you know what that was a really that was a really short time, and there's yeah, there's there's time later to do all those things. I get what you're saying that you have to you have to prioritize your relationship as well.

31:41 It's a tricky balance. Just switching gears a little bit so talking about your relationship. But I know you and Laura have a podcast as well, and you more recently, I think I've noticed that you you share some really vulnerable things like your personal experiences. You took about your relationship, you took about your sex life. How much thought do you put into who's listening As a fellow podcaster, there are things that I will not say on my podcast because I don't know if I want my partner to hear that, or my partners workmates, or my mum or you know, like there are things that I just feel like I can't share.

32:23 How do you decide what's okay to share? And do you have a conversation with the people around you and say would this be okay for me to talk about publicly? Yeah? For sure, it's so I think for anyone that knows me really well, I'm a pretty open book to my close friends and family, very very open book. But then even online, I've always shared so much of my life. I suppose a podcast is a whole other level, right because it's not just like a photo or a video or a caption. It's a whole conversation and you can really go into depth of for what you're talking about and share your perspective on things. So it's something Lauren and I've really enjoyed because it's also our time where we don't actually get to spend a lot of time on on one together. Even though we work together every day, we don't always get that time outside of work, and so sometimes we treat our.

33:07 Podcast session as a bit of a catch up catchup. And it's not to say that we don't also nur sure of the relationship outside of the way we do, but just sometimes we don't have time. And so I think what we've done, we've kind of over the years been dipping our toes in it and realized that, you know, nothing bad happened when we did, like, nothing groundbreaking or bad happened when we were a little bit more vulnerable. If anything, it made a lot more people feel seen or heard, and people really engaged with it and really related to what we had to say. So it's allowed us I supposed to open. Up more when it comes to opening up that with things that involve other. People, I e. You know, my sex life, which is obviously with my husband.

33:47 I will always talk to him before I open up about something on the podcast and make sure he's okay with it, and that has been interesting because he's more private than I am. But I think sometimes when he is a bit unsure about it, we'll just talk a little bit deeper about it or put it off for a little bit and then he can kind of come around and then once it's live, it doesn't bother him. But I think it's a funny point bringing up your mom, because my mom is a big fan of our podcast, Like she listens to every single episode. She's the biggest support, and so does Laura's mom, and we love them for that. But like often we'll have to say, like again, Mom, if you're listening, please skip ahead, or you know, I might even mess a message her and be. Like, maybe don't listen to today's episode. But my mom and I have got a really beautiful relationship, which I'm fortunate to say. I mean, when I was in high school, I definitely didn't. I think I was more of a daddy's girl, and I was a bit I was a bit cheekyer than my mom was, and so I didn't really like see ey to eye to her a lot.

34:46 In high school, we definitely got along and had a nice relationship, but there's just things just like you just don't get me, you know. And then now as an adult, I'm literally turning into my mom and I think she is like the ultimate human. I look up to her so much, and so I think we've got this really beautiful o from relationship now where even if she did hear about my sex life, it's like we can make jokes about it and be fine with that. Like she'll what did she say? She said something I was talking about because she comes over most weeks to she stays with us Thursday nights, and then she'll hang out with Harvey Friday mornings and kind of give Josh a little bit of time off and have that kind of Nana time and we're just so helpful and it's always nice to catch up. And I think there was one time, it was like a week after a podcast went live about it was either our thirty day Intwissy Challenge, it was something related with sex, and Mom kind of made this comment like are you gonna go to bed? She said something that was like a joke towards us being intimate, and we just, like Josh melted, but I just thought it was so so funny.

35:53 So like, yes, if there's anything that is kind of involving other people, I make sure they're along for the ride, make sure they're okay with it if they're not, but they're okay with me sharing and they just want it to be anonymous. I'll just say, you know a friend or a family member, but I always get that approval first. And yeah, if there's a few things something that I'm like, gay, mom, please don't listen, I'll just tell her and she'll avoid that episode. But again, I'm pretty comfortable with I mean, if I can share it to everyone else, I can share it to my friends and family. But like and the people who I'd feel uncomfortable about it, like my father in law. He does not listen to our podcasts, so right, you know, yeah, right, not worried about that.

36:34 That's another one. But that's another one who like but goes out of his way to like buy my books and wants to follow everything I'm doing is my eighty six year old father. So when he's saying to me, how do I get on this? How do I get onto this podcast? Oh no, you don't need to worry about how do I listen to your audiobook? No no, no, that's too technical. I mean not that he couldn't listen to my audiobook. But he's just I mean, love him, love him for being so interested. But sometimes it really, it really is a bit like this is not your audience. Really don't have to you don't really need to. Yeah, Steph, what's next for Kick, there is so much, so much planned, I think things that I can share.

37:18 Laura and I are gearing up for some pretty exciting chats to do our first raise, and the reason we're doing that is we've got some really exciting plans to expand the business. Globally, yeah, which is really exciting. But like outside of reaching those markets and all the work that's involved in that, we've got so much more we want to do with the product itself and some more technical stuff to do with the app, just to better the experience for our current users, but also to make it a better experience for new ones as well, especially going into those new markets. So yeah, it's really really exciting. Foot's definitely on the pedal right now and will be for a while, but it's all very very exciting, and the team's growing. We're at twenty three people now, which just crazy.

38:06 Never ever ever. Thought I would be working in an office every day, let alone, because I just never saw I saw myself as a pe teacher or a model, not someone in an office or you know, running a business with a team. So it's like anytime we hire someone new as well, we're like so grateful that someone wants to work with us, and we're just like, I can't believe that we have this life. Like we're just so grateful and. Excited that people are as passionate about what we're doing as we are. So yeah, there's lots happening. It's so exciting. I mean, when you're talking about like raising capital and expanding globally, it's just I mean, I just I'm so in awe of the both of you and what you've done on the vision that you have.

38:48 So congratulations on all of it. Thank you, Thank you so much. I was just curious tonight. So when you just said you saw yourself as a PE teacher, how did that go, like letting go of that kind of you know vision and shifting gear. So I suppose for me, when I was in high school, I always had interest in you know, arts, design, food, health, pe and as it was kind of coming to that point where we had to decide on what direction you were going to go, everything was pointing to, you know, primary school teacher or PE teacher because I loved kids, and I loved education and health and well being, and so I felt like that fit. I also wasn't like incredibly academic in the way that I knew that I was realistic with my interscore and knew that there wasn't going to be anything I could pursue that was like law or a doctor's degree or anything like that. Not that I had much interest in going there anyway, but that's kind of where I were sitting, and I was going to be really happy to go down that path.

39:49 But then I had this kind of interest from a very very young age in the modeling space. I used to love dance and acting and all sorts of different arts, but modeling was something that really always kind of interested me. And my parents were incredibly supportive to the point of, you know, supporting me through a gap year where I still kind of figured out what direction I wanted to go with my studies. And in that gap year, I started modeling, and I was just really fortunate that I picked up some good, regular clients and was working quite regularly and making good money and meeting credible people and having amazing experiences and starting to travel. I suppose got the bug for the modeling life and decided to pursue that.

40:31 So I never went to UNI. I've never studied anything. I just I think it's something that I find incredibly inspiring for people that have and I love that. You know, my best friend, my co founder, she did ten years of law just so that she could finish it and get her degree, and that is just incredible. The motivation to finish was. Like outstanding, Like she doesn't even know if she'll ever use it, but for her, it was just really important that she finished it. So even through everything that we would doing, she was still doing it on the side and just took her time with it, and I found that incredible. But for me, I think I had a lot of There's a lot of doubt put on me from a young age because I didn't have that same kind of drive or that same academic strength, and a lot of people told me I wasn't going to go anywhere, especially when I started to talk about either going to takee or you know, getting into modeling. There was a lot of doubt put on me for an early age that it just I was never really going to inspire to anything.

41:28 And so I think for me, I showed them. I mean, I just I love to. Talk about it because I don't want anyone feeling like if they're coming to the end of school or they're trying to decide what direction they're going if they don't like There's so many different ways that you can carve out your life and experience things. And for me, through the industry that I went down, I learned a lot about marketing, you know, design working. I was working with. Adults from a really young age and had to grow up really quickly, and so there was a lot of things that I learned through experience. And then when it comes to running the business, I mean, we're constantly surrounding ourselves with mentors and talking to different founders and all that sort of stuff, But at the end of the day, we are learning on the go and that for me is the best way that I learn. And I think just to anyone that's kind of doubting if they're ever going to be able to achieve anything great without going to UNI. There is so many different ways, and if you choose go to UNI, amazing, But just know that you're not going to be like you don't It doesn't mean that you're not going to equate to anything if you choose to do it differently. It's something that I like to talk to you.

42:36 That's a great message. That's a great message to share because I think, you know, my daughter's seventeen at the moment, she's in her last year of high school. We've moved overseas, like lots has changed in her life, and I, even as a parents, sometimes get that like, oh my god, what is she going to do? I don't know, I don't know what she's interested in. Like then she doesn't know what she's interested in. But I try to remind myself and remind her she doesn't have to have it figured out. But it can feel like you can feel like you do have to have it figured out. You can you feel that pressure, Yeah, for sure that you have to, you know, go off and study or learn something, or you'll equate to nothing. And that's a fabulous message, So thank you for sharing that. Oh of course, I think it just comes down to, you know, there's obviously a lot of people. That are driven to always do better and be better.

43:17 And I think something that inspires me about my mum is I think something she values in life is being content, you know, like not necessarily always having to strive for more or the grass is always greener. She was always really supportive of whatever you want to do in life, just make sure you enjoy it, and that was kind of why she was so open to me having a yup year and trying modeling, or you know, my brother was looking at being like. A golfer for a period of time, like different things like that. It's like, Okay, we'll support you because you really enjoy it, and if you enjoy it, then you'll probably stick to it and sustain it. If you push yourself to do something you don't enjoy only because you think it's I don't know, going to please someone else or something like, you know, you're not likely to hold onto it very long, or.

43:58 If you do, you might not be that happy. So I think that was something I was always really grateful for having that kind of support in finding what really fulfilled me. And I'm so glad I did, because you know, modeling might have not been the end thing. At the end of the day, it was my dream and I was so I couldn't believe I could live it for the period of time that I did, especially as a full time job, but and it was amazing. Definitely had its downfalls, but it had its perks too. But I think now with what we do at kick, I'm so fulfilled in a totally different way that I've found you know, my purpose and what and what I'm doing. It just fulfills me so much. Whereas in high school, I could not have imagined this like I would. There's no way I could. Have fathomed like, yeah, I'm going to I'm going to have a tech company. You know, we're going to have our own app and we're going to reach you know, thousands of people every day. And it's just like, no, I have twenty people in the team with me.

44:48 No, I just wouldn't have couldn't have even fathom. So yeah, just believe in yourself and believe that there are many different ways that you can find success and define what that success is for yourself. Yeah, amazing. Thank you for sharing your time with us today on the Crapit to Happy Podcast anytime. Like I said at the beginning of the show, Steph has very generously offered our listeners one month free on the kickapp, so you can download the app wherever you get apps. It is called kick kic or go to kickapp dot com to find out more and the discount code to use for your one month free trial is Kick one month. That is kic number one month, m o NTH I will put it in the show notes so that you don't get it wrong.

45:38 Using that code, you can access everything. That the health and Wellness app has to offer, including over one thousand plus workouts, recipes, meditations, and so much more. Very generous. If you'd like to connect with Steph, you'll find her over on Instagram. Steph Claire Smith obviously come and connect with me on Instagram. Cash done, underscore XO. If you enjoy this episode, please do share with your friends and hit that little plus button on Apple or Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts so that you never miss an episode. That's it from me today. I cannot wait to catch you next week for another episode of Crappy to Happy