Changing the brain with Sally Callie

0:02 A listener production. Hey guys, you're listening to Crappy to Happy. I'm cas done. I'm a clinical and coaching psychologist, a mindfulness meditation teacher, and author of the Crappy to Happy books. In this series, we look at all of the factors that might be making you feel crappy and give you the tools and the techniques that will help you to overcome them. In each episode, I introduce you to interesting, inspiring, intelligent people who are experts in their field, and my hope is that they will help you feel less crappy and more happy. Today I am talking with triple Olympian and four time national champion rower Sally Kelly formerly Sally Newmarch about how she used all of the strength, drive and tenacity that she developed as an elite athlete to recover from a stroke.

0:51 Sally is a true inspiration and a champion, and I think after you listen to her. Story, you will have to agree. So Sally, just for listeners, I first met you when you actually invited me. You're a rowing coach now invited me to speak at your girls rowing camp about mindset and mindfulness in preparation for their rowing competition. And I soon found out who you were and figured you didn't need me at all to teach mindset and mindfulness knowing your background. So can we start with maybe telling our listeners a little bit about your Olympic background. You're a triple Olympian. Sure, you know as an Olympian, training is not just about training the body, It's about training the mindset, and that's you know. As an educator, I really wanted you to come in and talk to our athletes because they have so much we can learn, not just from the rowing boat, but we can transfer them into life. So you know, those life skills are so important. And for me, I began that journey. You know as a sixteen year old.

1:49 I was in school one day and I visited, stepped up onto stage and said, are you tool? Are you sixteen? Would you like to go to the Olympic Games. Now this went in Australia, white though. This was done by every government, every local government in every state, and they grounded up four hundred kids from all over the state, brought them down to the Institute of Sport, measured them up and told them they were the next Olympic rowing champions. So I was talent, Id'd for the sport. Now this stage, I had no idea what was going on. I just knew I had to have long arms, good leg power, good speed, those sorts of things. So you were a rower though, Yes, you already know what sport were being talent id'd for, which was quite fascinating, you know, as a student being told you're going to be a future Olympic champion in. Just four years.

2:29 Yeah, So parents were interviewed, we will measured up. They were narrowed it down to ten boys and ten girls in every state, and they said in four years you will be at the Olympic Games. And you were incredible. Yes, they set some pretty serious goals for us, and they did say if we didn't achieve those goals, you know, we weren't really required in the program. So it was quite taxing, you know, it was year twelve. Balancing the extra twenty hours of training on top of the academics was incredibly testing. Yeah, but you know, as you would know, with that comes some incredible life skills and transferable life skills. And I quickly noticed as my performance in the boat improved as a sixteen year old, my academics in the classroom, you know, went skyrocketed, so it was just amazing experience.

3:13 And yes, within one year we're at the World Junior Championships, within two years the World Seniors, three years World Seniors and fourth year, oh my goodness, it was the Olympic Games. You know, all my dreams had come true. So which Olympics was that? So that was nineteen ninety six Atlanta Olympics and I was twenty you just turned twenty, so quite young, you know, one of the youngest on the team, which was quite an incredible experience, you know, things that you dream off as a sixteen year old, of. Course, and so you obviously then went on to Sydney two thousand and then Athens. Yes, yeah, I went on to do three Olympic Games, came fourth, fourth, and fourth, so you know, I built that resilience along the way. But our Athens campaign finished with a world record, which was fantastic, and it's an Olympic record that stands today. So you know, it's nice to take home something even though it wasn't the hardware of a medal. At least there's an Olympic record that still stands today.

4:05 To this day. Nobody has broken your own. Has broken it, so my rowing partner and I Amber, you know, every Olympic Games we get together and yeah, we watched that Olympic Games. That's fantastic. You know, cross our fingers because it will be broken one day. Do a little high five when it remains unbroken. Yeah, So for anybody who was watching, you know, many of us were watching those games. So you were in the lightweight double skulls with Amber Halliday, that's correct, Yeah, the lightweight double skull Yeah. So just on that Athens Olympics. You had some challenges leading up to those games, right, because you were in a bike. I read that you were in a bike accident. Well, interesting enough, it was actually Amber that was in the bike accident twelve weeks prior to the games. She recovered within six weeks and then I came off my bike after that and broke my rib. So we had two bike accidents within it was likely about sixteen weeks prior to the games. Our reserve had gone home with the measles. So we had to raise that Olympic Games in the state that we were in. And it was a sports psychologist that pulled me aside and just said, Beauty, you know you've got eight weeks of the Games. You've six weeks to heal a broken bone. Let's get started on the visualization. And that was my final six weeks into the Games. Amber rode the single skull in the glacier lake in Switzerland where we were training at the time.

5:24 Our double collected dust and I just sat there with a tree and some thera bands and just had to visualize movement, you know, while moving those THEO bands back and forth, working on that fine motor control. It was incredible. That's amazing. Yeah. So, because you know, we haven't really talked about it a lot, I don't think on this show about that power of mental rehearsal. And you know the fact that mentally rehearsing a skill, especially in elite sport but in anything, really can have as much effect on the improvement in your performance as actually physically. Absolutely many of us don't realize. Yeah, you know, it's not just physical, it's mental. And at that level, we were the same way, same height, all of our competitors. We were in a fifty seven kilo weight category. Everyone was identical, you know, identical physiology and anthropometrical measurements. It was a mindset that would separate us. And you know when we sat on that start line of the Olympic Games for the heat, you know, day one of the games, it was like a mind boxing match going on in my head. You know that in a critic just telling me I wasn't prepared and br and I hadn't actually raced together ever at this point. You know, that was another fact that was totally overwhelming. We lost our opportunity to do some speed work. So we sat there on the Olympic Games totally green, unsure how we were going.

6:35 I didn't even know your partner in the boat. No, really, no, we'd trained together, but obviously not raced together. And it was it really was a mind back boxing match going on that start line, just trying to stay focused and and get that in a critic to turn into in a coach and tell you that could actually perform. I love that, turn the inner critic into the inner coach. So you obviously you could mentally rehearse the skill, the movement, but you can't mentally rehearse physical fitness exactly. But we were very fit. We're incredibly fit, and I guess could have been luck. I'm not sure, but the day of the heat, it was incredibly rough conditions. It was unrollable. You know, they pretty much canceled the regatta that afternoon. It was white caps. And in a rowing environment, if any of our listeners here have rowed, it's pretty easy to tip in, so you sort of like you're walking on a typewrote when you're actually rowing in those conditions.

7:27 And I can remember the starter calling us up to the start line, and I can remember thinking, you know, this is going to be a really tricky race. So really short and tricky race because with a strong tailwind, starter called us in you know, Australia, Germany, France, and he calls out our names, attention, go, and off we went, and we just had to keep our head in the boat and just execute the technique. And before we knew it. The funny thing about rowing is it's a sport. You sit down and you go backwards, and so you're leading the race. We had the best spectator seat in the house, and we were leading by you know, more and more, only because we had that fine motor control that I had developed through the fine motor control with therabands, and Amber had developed that incredible skill of rowing a single skull, you know, in the lead up, so we were in the most perfect position and no one was more surprised than us in the heat when we crossed the line with the world record.

8:15 Isn't that amazing? It was incredible. That's the epitome of silver linings, isn't it? Like we learnt so much? But when you're on top, it's pretty hard to stay there. Yeah. Yeah, So you went on in the final, you came fourth. We did. It was a strong head win. The race was perhaps two minutes longer. I think the only thing record is about a six forty seven, and I think the final, you know, was a lot longer. And my rib was just in pain by the end. So we crossed the line in fourth. We got mo down. We were leading most of the race, but I you know, it was a difficult place to be. But to walk away with an Olympic record is a pretty special place to be, of course. And so that was the end of your Olympic career so far sorting. You came home, got married, you weren't married at that stage, got married, had kids, and then I want to get to like your next big challenge, which was do you want to tell us about what ultimately led you to having a stroke.

9:14 Yeah, so I actually couldn't wait to get home and settle and it didn't take long. I fell in love with a fellow olympian, We got married, we had two children. In world record pace was fourteen months. We produced two children, and life was perfect. I know it is possible, trust me. And I secured my dream job in education. Our life was absolutely perfect. But two weeks after the birth of that second child, you know, not long after finishing the Olympic Games, I. Had a seizure. So I was standing in the shower not long after giving birth, and my left side started flipping out. I've never had any health issues in my life, so it was quite nerve wracking. They took me away into the ambulance into hospital that night, and after a whole batch of MRIs and scans, I was told that I had a genetic brain malformation on my brain. So it was sort of like a something I was born with, and it was called an AVM, a cluster of blood vessels, and they said it would bleed in a time of stress.

10:13 So obviously the childbirth caused the bleed and caused the seizure. And look, they said, you've got two choices. You can leave it and you will suffer a fatal stroke you in probably ten to fifteen years, or we can have a craniotomy, and a craniotomy involves a fifteen per cent chance of stroke, paralysis, coma, or death. Now I had a two week old baby. It was it was a terrifying decision. It was terrifying. It was you know, when you've just had a child, you want to put that child first, and that's what I did. I proposed to the surgeon to delay the surgery by six months, and I just needed six months to breastfeed that little boy, you know, just to get to know him, and just to live like these six months with my last It was an incredible six months because when you're not sure if that's going to be your you know your end date, you make sure those six months are going to be the best six months of your life. And I just finished reading Muttin Seligman's Authentic Happiness and also Flourish Positive Education.

11:12 So I was in this fantastic place mentally where life was just great and I was ready for every single obstacle. So I made sure those six months were full of gratitude, you know, I've reconnected with friends, I engaged and everything I found, you know, achievement and everything in my life. I just saw every sunset sunrise, and I just got to this brilliant place in my life where when the dave of surgery came, I was ready. I was ready to win the race. I was so determined to go in there and treat it like an Olympic Games and come out as a success. And what happened. It was seven hours later. I woke up and the AVM was removed, so they took my skull off, removed the AVM, stapled my skull back on with twenty four staples, and I woke up and it was good news. The AVM was gone. But I woke up paralyzed down one side, and that was, you know, difficult. I went into an another MRI straight after that and they told me I'd survived a stroke during the surgery. So with some slight optimism, I was able to see that as a second chance, that I didn't die on the operating table, that I was still alive. So I really tried to run with that, but I couldn't help but notice that being paralyzed down one side of the body you know, I was an athlete in an infant's body, and that was the toughest part.

12:29 You know, my whole identity was that of an athlete. My job, you know that I was a attorney to leave from, was that of a director of sport. You know, I was an athletic able person and in broad daylight, that was taken away from me. And meanwhile, also a mother of a six month old and a I'm trying to do the maths. I've half a year basically, yeah, and a mortgage and a husband and all those sorts of things. So I really a grieved for the loss of my husband's wife. I a grieved for the boy's mother, and I just grieve for the new burden they had. The doctors couldn't tell me whether I'd ever walk again, whether I'd either be able to dress myself, feed myself, sit up straight. I really was a burden and it was difficult.

13:11 Can you talk us through? So how did you wrap your head around that? What was the what was the process that you went through in your mind? I mean it's a pretty dark place to be, incredibly dark, you know, when no one is able to give you hope and you're a young stroke survivor too, So I laid on my back in hospital for two weeks. There was no place in a rehab center for me yet we're in the public system. So I waited for two weeks in hospital, unable to move, just looking at a ceiling, trying to dig deep, you know, from the Olympic experience, trying to pull you know, all of those lessons. But I just couldn't draw much. You know. I was in a really dark place, and I laid on my back for two weeks, and every time a doctor came in, I just said, you know when when.

13:53 We'll move and return. And each doctor was protecting me, I guess, with their vague sense of you know maybe perhaps, oh maybe never. But one doctor, as he leaves the room, he said, have you tried visualization? Was it was just incredible. I could have. I could have jumped out of bed if I could visualization. That was something I was damn good at, you know, visualization at something I'd practiced an Olympic level. So I, with all my energy, I pretty much wrote up a training program, you know, as best I could. You know, my head eat, sleep, train, repeat, and you know, training involved visualizing an awe in my hand, you know, visualizing cross wind on my face, you know, visualizing the rowing zoot suit, the uniform cutting into my shoulder, just trying to get that sensation back, trying to activate those neurons that were not awake, you know, trying to reconnect. And if you can see the movement and feel the movement, you can then strengthen those motor patterns. So I was so excited, you know, I was so empowered by being able to be accountable. And I think that was a lesson I learned as a patient. If I can get some accountability, then I can be in charge of this dream and I can be responsible. And with that, I began visualizing everything. You know, everything in that hospital and that rehab center became the Olympic Games for me. In my green hospital gown was my Olympic uniform. My wristband, my identification was my athlete accreditation, you know, my wheelchair was my rowing boat. And those six the ladies that I ended up sharing a rehab board with, they were my crew. So I just ensured that everything was full

15:24 of optimism, and everything was visualized, you know, in the most perfect scenario. And something else that I read online, which I'm not sure people know either. Is that Amber your rowing partner? She had also suffered a brain injury in following the Olympics, right. Credible coincidence. Absolutely, Amber, after the two thousand and four took up cycling, as many rowers do, won the national championships. So I went on to do great things. Yet in a race called the Tour down under an Adelaide, I think she ac colluded with a corner and came down and knocked her head quite hard. And Amber spent a very long time time in a coma and also ended up in a rehabilitation hospital, learning to walk, learning to speak and things like that. So Amber and I together, we studied.

16:09 Neuroplasticity basically together. So I was going to say, so, what puts to she'd sort of she was recovering at the time this happened to you. So you were able to reach out to her exactly? Yes, Yeah, And I kept my disability incredibly private. I was so ashamed. You know, I was an athlete and I always just didn't know how to cope with now being disabled. So you know, I told my family, my close family, but they weren't allowed to tell any cousins aunties, uncles. Wow. And I did call Amber because I just had no idea what to do. But Amber just said, I've got one word for you, and that's neuroplasticity. So I went out and bought online the audiobook of Norman Deutsch, The Brain That Changes Itself, and that was incredible in understanding the mindset and what we can do by strengthening motor patterns.

16:54 It's so that's so interesting, isn't it? Because I think there are still a lot of people who they might have heard the term neuroplasticity, but here's real, like living, breathing evidence, and there's so many examples in that book. The book is called The Brain that Changes Itself, that's correct. So many case studies of people who have recovered from like incredible challenges and brain injuries absolutely by through this process of actually rewiring your brain and actually redeveloping new brain cells. Absolutely, the case studies are incredible in there, and it talks a lot about cause and effect. You know, how bad habits can create bad behavior, but good habits can go on to loop into good behavior, and how we can strengthen our brain in mentally and strengthen our body physically. It's incredible, you know, so really opened my eyes up. The combination of the Olympic Games and living a year in a rehabilitation environment. Yeah, well, I was four months in the center in an elderly stroke unit.

17:52 Some of our patients were palliative care, some were with MS. I shared award with six elderly patients. We became very close. We talked about regrets, you know, we had fantastic, deep, deep conversations. And I learned so much that year that I took off work. I learned more than I've you know, more in that year that I've learned in my life, you know. And I'm probably prouder. Of that year than the three Olympic Games combined, because you know, when you pushed into a hard place like that, you really have to, you know, make choices on you know, how you interpret the situation and how you respond and what you can pull from your patients, your fellow patients, how you can work together, yeah, to fight the odds.

18:34 I hope you're enjoying season four of the show, And hey, I would love for you to check out my brand new YouTube channel, where I'm sharing even more tips on how you can feel less crappy and more happy. It's YouTube dot. Com forward slash cast Done, so come over check it out. I'd love for you to subscribe, And if you haven't already taken my free seven day happiness challenge, you can sign up for that at castdone dot com Forward slash Happiness. Sally. What I'm interested in is like, how important was it like when ambassid I've got one word neuroplasticity. How much of a difference did that make you? Just in terms of giving you that sense of hope? Did it?

19:15 I assume it made all the difference. Again, like visualization, I felt accountable. I felt I could now be in charge of my dream. I could be a student of my purpose. And whether it's rowing or career or whatever it is, I think we all have to be in charge of our dream and a student of our purpose. And the word neuroplasticity gave me an opportunity to read up on the work of Norman Deutge and a few other neuroscientists and actually be in charge and take the pressure off the doctors and put it back onto the patient. You know that we it's up to us to choose how we interpret and how we respond and to do our own research. And there was some incredible things happening over in the US with stroke recovery. It wasn't happening, you know, in the government hospitals because obviously there were some policies as to what you can and can't do with patients. But I decided to do my own reas abilitation program while living in the hospital. And you know, when the nurses had gone, you know, to bed all back into their quarters, that's when my training began and I went to do well. You know, I was pretty angry, you know, because of course I knew I had a choice, and you know, I had two little children at home and a husband, and I knew I had to do something pretty unique. So, you know, I blew up balloons and I just spent evenings just trying to play volleyball with the left hand. Even though I couldn't even move my left hand. I'd be attempting to think about the connection of making a wrist connect with the volleyball. You know.

20:36 I used my wheelchair as a squat machine. So the squats that I learned how to do in rowing, I would try and squat in and out of the wheelchair and if I fell forward, I'd fall into my bed, and if I feel back, I'd fall into my chair. I used my wheelchair as a walking frame as opposed to a wheelchair. Even when I started to get progress you need in walking, dressing, feeding, I decided I really needed to test myself. So I asked a nurse, a student nurse, if I could just step outside the rehabilitation center to you know, I get some fresh air. And I tucked my phone safe in my pocket, comb my hair over my half shaved head, pulled my sleeve over my rehab bracelet, my identification, and I walked to the nearest bus stop. So I staggered the four hundred meters with my foot dragging behind me. I just needed to do my limits, though cas I just needed to know where I was in society and whether I could go home and look after two children. I hopped on the bus.

21:29 I went all the way into the city, and my goal was to go and get a coffee, you know, just like any normal person, my benchmark. But it was just thrilling being on a bus. You know, the streets were winding, you know, I had to hold onto a rail obviously to stop my body from falling. Over. But the man next to me, he was in his business suits. It was peak hour, of course, and he was staring at me, and I could not figure out what he was looking at. And I was as horrified as him when I noticed that my left hand had flopped into his lap. So I picked up that misbehaving hand, wedged it. Betwere my thighs, and I got off at the next bus stop, and I'd found my limits. So I safely went back to the rehab center and ticked that box that you know. Now I know where my limits are.

22:13 You know when you said, you know, you took back your power to take charge of your recovery. And I think that's such an important message to take that responsibility. But you know, what were you up against in terms of what the doctor's expectations were like, what were they sort of preparing you for? They were teaching me to how to adapt to my disability. When I first arrived in the rehab center, where I shared award with six elderly stroke patients, I was issued a commode, a wheelchair, and adaptive cutlery. You know, we were there were points where we were we were offered to rent there equipment or perhaps purchase it. So those sorts of decisions. You know, the house was going to be modified, you know, there was an appointment where I guess the medical team would go into my house and talk about the cost of modifying our home, you know, putting ramps in and things like that. It was really difficult because I really believed in my body. I knew how to train this body. This body has never let me down. I was talking to Amber, you know, I had to be so headstrong, you know, around a medical team.

23:13 I've been reading a book called wolf Pack by Abby. Oh, yes, I have heard of it, but I haven't read it. She talks about ain't no little red riding hood. Now I can really relate to that. You know, you don't have to stay in that garden path, you know, you can actually step off the path and create your own dream. And that's what I felt like I was doing in rehab hospital. I had to wear devil horns and make sure I got my way because if it wasn't for that, I would have been a burden, you know, and I wasn't willing for that on my family. That takes such strength, because often we do feel like even just going to the GP, we often feel kind of powerless, especially in medical situations, like they're the experts and we kind of just have to take their word for it and listen to what they say, and we're kind of treated you know, I disrespect to the medical profession, but we're sometimes kind of treated like that. If you even if you google something yourself, Oh you've been consulting doctor Google? Have you? You know, leave that to the experts.

24:05 But you know, it's really important to take that power back and to take some control of our health and our destiny. Yeah. I've been quite fortunate to speak at a few hospitals. I spoke at the Wesley not long ago here in Brisbane, and the doctors and the nurses want that they want patients to take accountability. No obviously to an extent, but they want them to sort of realize that it's their their problem. They need to be a student of their purpose, not the doctors. And being in a rehab center with elderly stroke survivors, there were so many patients that were making it the medical problem, making it the medical professionals problem and not their problem. And I think once we start owning it, taking accountability, even using it as an our authentic identity. I think we really need to own it and actually, you know, find the silver lining and do something with it.

24:52 Can you just talk more about that. What do you mean when you say take authentic identity? Well, I guess when I had my you know, after a I was deemed well enough to be out of the medical system and stop the organized rehab, and I was frightened about going back into my workplace. My identity was that of someone that was physical and able, and my job of a director of sport was to stand in front of a school cohort and speak, and I couldn't do that. I had a slur. It was to perhaps drive a school bus of athletes to training, and I couldn't drive because I didn't have a license anymore after a brain injury, and frightening enough was to I guess, demonstrate archery in pe. Now the work health and safety manager was more concerned than I was where that arrow would end up. But I really had to close that identity and embrace something new. And it wasn't until I, i guess, opened up my mindset and embracing new possibilities that didn't involve my physical ability.

25:51 I started to realize that I've got something authentic here. You know, I'd spent a whole year reading about neuroscience. What was I going to do with that knowledge? Now? So that really pushed me in an education in science. So I'm no longer involved in sport in the educational field and science is my new passion. And it just shows that one door closes, another one opens. And it's not until we let go of our past perceptions judgments who we are, that we're able to embrace a new possibility. And I think we all need to be open to change and open to be students of our purpose and open to be I guess, being accountable for who we are and moving with change. Yeah. And so for the people listening, you have now, from what I can tell, have made a complete recovery.

26:32 We hide our disability well, so you know I walk with a limp, just a slight limp. My handwriting is very messy. Are you left handed? I'm left handed, But that's actually a great thing. I have read that it's wonderful. Well, the best side to stroke on is actually your dominant side, because you're more likely to gain some sort of movement back because you're more likely to reach for a door handle, or at least think about reaching for a door handle with your dominant side. So even though I may stand and look at a door, you know, after the brain injury, the whole sensation of that brain to hand pathway was always going to be there. So yeah, my handwriting's messy. I walk with a limp. I can't dance anymore very robotic.

27:13 But I can mother, I can teach, I can coach, I can do all these wonderful things. And I've learned so much, you know, I've learned so much, and I just want to share the knowledge that I have now because it's a lonely place when you're a young stroke survivor, and I had no role models around me, no one to help me out. And my goal now is to share my knowledge and help others in similar situations that there is hope. It's amazing. So, Sally, I want to really pick up on this neuroplasticity because it is a really new it's new science. When I did my undergraduate degree in psychology late eighties, early nineties, we were taught, we were taught clearly there is no growing new brain cells. You are born with a certain number because there's various ways you can kill your brain cells, which we're all doing at the time, you know, drinking during you but you know, but you couldn't grow new ones. And obviously now we know that not only can you grow new neurons, but you can also create new neural pathways through as you said, like repetition and habit and changing patterns. And I teach people that mindfulness meditation is one way that we know is proven to develop new brain cells and to rewire your brain.

28:21 And you've obviously talked about, you know, the power of visualization. I would love for you to talk some more about, you know, really exactly how what you did to repair your brain. Sure. Yeah, the last decade we've seen enormous change with the brain and neuroscience and neuroplasticity is a new term made famous I think by Norman Deutge with the brain which changes itself. And it's a great read because the case studies are fascinating, fascinating to see what people can do with I guess, a damaged brain and that's what I had, and that's where my strength came from the case studies. You know, with the science mind, it's really wonderful that these things can change, and for me, you know, the you know, visualization, the neuroplasticity was quite similar. You know, it was about feeling movement and being there. And when I talk about these games with visualization, it was about making sure the situation is familiar. We you know, at an Olympic level, you really only get to race internationally three or four times a year, so the nerves do get the better of you and you get distracted and you get very externally focused in that environment. But visualization is all about being internally focused a little bit like mindfulness and meditation, making sure you're in control of the feelings and you're highlighting those positive feelings or those feelings that I guess bring on fantastic technique, those sorts of things. Now, when it came to a brain injury, visualization, I guess it was about being very internal with my thoughts and the plasticity side of things. I discovered a I guess

29:54 a methodology called CI therapy. I think it was called constricted of induced therapy. I might have to check that one out, but we just called it CI therapy. And what involved was strapping my good side, so my right side to my body and being forced to use my left side now, even though my left side was completely paralyzed, but just the neuron pathway, just reactivating that neuron pathway, you know, not long after a brain injury brought huge progress. Slowly I would start to see my thumb move, and then another finger would move, a toe would move, then my knee might move, and that happened over a six week period. I got huge amount of success, whereas my fellow patients who were just following the typical old school physiotherapy, they weren't getting the progress that I was getting. And when I brought this concept to the head physio it was deemed it was unsafe, that would be exhausting, unsafe because I'd probably fall over if my good side was strapped to me. Physically exhausting because the brain is still recovering from injury. So we need to actually relax the brain rather than stress the brain. But from what I read, neuroplasticity is all about stretching brain, you know, putting it under pressure, treating it like a muscle. In the fact that we have to train the brain like we have to train the body. And what I loved when I started to read more about neuroplasticity is it. We can train it for good or for bad. You know, bad habits become cemented in our brain if we keep practicing over and over again, whereas good habits, positive thoughts, mindfulness, you know, having space between that detection and the response.

31:24 You know, when we make decisions, you know it has to be practiced, and you know, yes it does. Incredible. I'm curious to know. So back in those early days, like how many hours a day, for example, would you be spending on this kind of mental work. Every moment, really every moment. I was living in a rehabilitation center, my children were at home with my husband. I had, you know, a very a very determined training program, and I had read you know that it would I'd get the most progress within three months, and just by chance, it was actually three months to the London Olympic Games at the time. So I really visualized competing at these London Olympic Games if there was absolutely no chance I'd ever get there with my disabled body, but just that visualizing what my fellow Olympians were doing.

32:10 Right at this time. They were eating well, they were sleeping well, they were training hard, and they were visualizing and I just made sure I took on that training program with ninety days to go, and I had a huge amount of progress in those thirst three months, and then it plateaued a little bit after that. Yeah. Wow, So I mean really, all of your this is available to everybody, clearly, but your experience and that discipline and the strength and the tenacity that you cultivated as an Olympian, like it really stood you in pretty good stead. Yeah. I feel very fortunate, you know, to have the Olympics under me and know how to train my mind and my body when I suffered this debilitating brain injury. But then again, you know, anything is possible, and I say that with such an open heart. When we are pushed into a corner, we have to fight, you know, you cannot just roll with it. We have two choices. We can quit and blame it on something, or we can pull everything we've got and become a student of our purpose.

33:04 Like I said earlier, read up, you know, find case studies and go for it. And I really want to share that message with every student I teach, with every friend I have. We really have a choice on how we choose to interpret and respond to these situations were put in. You are obviously because now you said you're not in sport anymore, but you're still the head rowing coach right at Brisbane Girls Grammar. How lucky are those girls to have you to I'll just be able to teach them the physical skill, like the physical technique of rowing, but all of this mindset stuff. Well, I feel fortunate that I've got a platform to share this knowledge on it and my rowers are also my science students, and we have so many transferable thinking skills that we move from the boat to the classroom, and we're always talking about grit, you know, obstacles or opportunities.

33:51 You know, what it's like to be a lifelong learner, how to get your daily habits, you know, to find out your why. You know, we are constantly moving those lessons from the to the classroom and back again. And I have so many wonderful old girls that are perhaps studying at Harvard now or run on the Australian team, and you know, they're using those lessons today. And I just feel so fortunate that together we can work together. And I have incredible kids that are willing, you know, to be resilient and take on such a resilient co curricular sport like growing swimming, you know. And I have two children of my own, and I've spent a lot of time thinking about how do we create how do we build gritty children, And it is through co curricular sport or it's really through anything that teaches, you know, grit, resilience, anything that's tough in life that has delayed gratification. Yes, so I know you've got a daughter, Yes, you know, and it is important to be teaching delayed gratification, whether it's through sport or chores, and then being able to unpack when they do fail, when they do come to decisions that perhaps don't go their way.

34:54 So such important life skills. And Sally, you know, I know you're a listener of the pod cast, and in the last season we had cheerier pit on and you know, she's obviously an inspiration as well. And she has said publicly that she in many ways is grateful for the fire, for the for the lessons learned, and the opportunities that have come as a result of that. I'm curious to know, is there any part of you that feels like grateful for the experience. Yeah, Look, I'm grateful for a second chance. I know, I'm lucky I survived a stroke. Not many people do survive strokes. And I'm lucky also that this happened after three Olympic Games, after two beautiful children were born, and after a husband, and it could have easily happened before.

35:35 But those three things gave me the motivation to move through, you know, the Olympic Games, my children, and my husband were my fuel to move onwards and upwards. And I feel so grateful. The combination of three Olympic Games and a year spent in a rehabilitation center with elderly stroke patients was the most incredible journey. I feel so wealthy and knowledge and so fortunate to be standing up again and on the other side of the hill. Basically, so Sally, just you know, we've talked about this, the power of visualization, and even as a life coach, you know, and in the industry, in a coaching industry, we often talk about people visualizing themselves achieving their goals and the power of that visualization. So is there any advice that you have to share, not just about the mental rehearsal of you know, physical skills and that neural wiring, but just the power of visualizing anything that you might want to achieve or work towards in your life.

36:31 Yeah, visualizing is incredibly important, you know. I think as a life coach, you know, I think a vision board is a great way to see you know where you want to get to and how you're going to get there, and then you can put your habits and your your plan in there. I think, so I'm just gonna jump in there. I think that's so important because it is not just about visualizing something and then just waiting for the universe to deliver. It is about having the vision, but then putting the actions and the habits in place, making action right towards those things, and. Being accountable and having that accountability buddy, you know, sharing that vision so someone can help keep you accountable. But when we talk about, you know, the brain and visualization, I think it's really important to know that when we get off track, we need we need to know that we have a choice, you know, and we can actually choose how we interpret and how we respond because the brain, you know, perceives things differently for each person. What may seem like a tragedy of someone perhaps you know, is actually sometimes a celebration or a new beginning to someone else, and visualization helps us stay on track. So and so does that optimistic explanatory style if we can see something.

37:39 And I've heard you talk about the three p's before, and it's very much about explaining scenarios in an optimistic way so you can stay on track with that vision. Yes, that's such an important point when things go wrong, when things don't go to plan, Like how do you make sense of that? How do you choose to interpret that? You know, is that defeat and you know it's all over or is that just you know, information to redirect or as you say, just get back on track. Yeah, And when we do experience failure or we're in the pit, and especially growing up, we need to understand that that's where the skills are built. You know, it's actually that point of failure or that point of the fit, is where we do get the strategies the tools to actually dig ourselves out. And I really feel through co curricular sport, through my Olympic games, I was learned, you know, I talked, so gained those skills and I was able to use them perhaps in learning to walk again and learning to be able bodied again.

38:34 How long did it take you out of interest, like from the stroke to really sort of getting back to I know you say you've still got some disability or some slight sort of impairment which nobody else can see, by the way, But how long. Did it take? It took four months living in a rehabilitation center, and then another six months living out and visiting three times a day to the hospital as an outpatient three times a day. Yeah. Actually, fortunately I lived next to the hospital, so I was able to access and I was incredibly determined, you know, as an Olympic athlete that that was my lifeline really, and then probably another two months doing some serious rehab at home and getting tested on a once a fortnight. And even today I'm still moving, you know, I'm really that is my rehab. Once I stopped moving, then I stop you know, progressing. And I'm always trying to pick up a pencil rather than type on the computer, or always you know, trying to run rather than take you know, the stairs or something like that. So I always make sure I make the right choices to maximize my ability.

39:36 And Sally, you did mention to me off air that you are working on a book at the moment. Have you got anything to share about that. It's been a fantastic journey. I'm halfway good for you. It's really a memoir. It's about from the boat to the bedrails and what it's like to be an athlete in an infant's body and the lessons I learned, you know, spending a year in rehabilitation with DOKE survivors, some palliative care patients, and the lesson that I gained from that. I can't wait. And also just one of the things I forgot to ask you, So how long ago did all of this happen? This happened six and a half years ago, so it's still quite raw for me. I mean, I haven't talked about it publicly very often, so I'm still trying to discover what the learnings were. And the more journey I take on that, the more excited I am to share this.

40:21 I'm so I'm so excited that you are sharing it. I think there will be a lot of our listeners who obviously would have seen you at the Olympics and would not even realize that what has happened since then. So I really appreciate you sharing your story with us. Fantastic Thanks again, Cas. Well, I for one am really looking forward to Sally's book coming out, and if you want to find out more about Sally, you can head to her website, Sally Kelly. It's SA double L y C A double L I E dot com. My new book, Crappy to Happy Love What You Do is out in all good bookstores, so if you want to find more happy in work and check it out. On the next episode, I'll be talking to mas Compton about her decision to quit drinking and why she thinks more of us should take a closer look at whether our drinking is really making us any happier.

41:15 Crappy to Happy is presented by cast Gunn, produced by Davis Vilenski, Audio production by Darcy Thompson. Listener