Nov. 22, 2023

Cleaning your trauma with Yemi Penn

Cleaning your trauma with Yemi Penn
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Cleaning your trauma with Yemi Penn
Cleaning your trauma with Yemi Penn
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Season 11 Personal Growth & Healing

Cass talks to Yemi Penn about her experience growing up in London and Nigeria, and her decision to 'run away' to Sydney on the other side of the world.Yemi shares the moment she realised she was in danger of transferring her trauma to her own children and how that led to her making it her mission in life to clean her own trauma and help others to do the same. 
Connect with Yemi:www.yemipenn.com
Connect with Cass:www.crappytohappypod.comhello@crappytohappypod.com 
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Join the free 7-day Happiness Challenge:www.cassdunn.com/happiness

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Transcript
WEBVTT

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Just a heads up that this episode references sexual abuse

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and self harm, so if those topics are likely to

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be triggering for you, you might want to skip this episode.

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This is Crappya Happy, and I am your host, Cas Done.

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I'm a clinical and coaching psychologist. I'm mindfulness meditation teacher

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and of course author of the Crappy to Happy books.

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In this show, I bring you conversations with interesting, inspiring,

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intelligent people who are experts in their field and who

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have something of value to share that will help you

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feel less crappy and more happy. Hello, I am back.

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Welcome to another episode of Crappy to Happy. Just a

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little note about what's happening going forward. Due to feedback

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that I received on my Instagram page when I asked

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people whether they were interested in having more of the

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three Mindful Minutes shortcasts, the answer was overwhelmingly yes. So

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from now on you'll see brand new three Mindful Minutes

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in the feed on Mondays, with regular episodes such as

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this one coming out roughly Wednesdays. I try to get

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them out to you via Wednesday. So I've got an

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amazing guest for you this week. Yemy Penn is her name,

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Yemy is a Sydney based ted X speaker who wears

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an incredible number of hats, including first Up. She's a

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PhD researcher looking at trauma transformation. She's a transformational thought leader,

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an author, an engineer, entrepreneur, a mother, and a documentary producer. Ultimately,

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Yemy's on a mission to remove the stigma around trauma

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and to encourage everyone to clean up their own trauma

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so that we don't pass it on to the next generation.

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Here is my conversation with Yemy Ye Me. Welcome to

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the A Happy Podcast.

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Thank you so much for having me.

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You know, I've read a lot of your bios. So

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you were born in London, kind of raised it for

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some part of your childhood in Nigeria, back to London

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and now in Sydney.

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So I'm just curious to know what took you to Australia.

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Mate, I was running away, right. Was it neighbors or

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I don't know. There was one sop where you want

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to go when nobody knows your name, but I'm actually

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saying the opposite. It might have been neighbors. I really

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needed to go somewhere where nobody knew my name. So

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the truth is on paper. It was shame. Didn't just

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wanted to just like get on with raising my two kids.

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But the surface answer I gave everybody was a job

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I came to work on Sydney Metro. It was a

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project I wanted and that is also the truth. But

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honestly I came to repair and heal.

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Wow. Well that thank you for the truthful answer.

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It always helps, doesn't it.

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Yeah, Yeah, let's get straight to it.

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So so, yeah, me, you've been really open.

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We will get to that.

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But you've been also really open about some of the

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trauma that you experienced in your early life. Particularly I

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saw your Ted talk and you straight out talk about

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your being sexually abused as a seven year old.

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Yeah.

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Obviously that had a profound impact on you. But I'm

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also curious to know, like, as you reflect on your

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growing up years, what were some of the other circumstances

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that had a really profound impact on you or you

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feel really shaped you for better or for worse.

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Yeah, I mean, as you were saying it, the immediate

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one was being put in board in school in Nigeria.

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Even just saying it sounds so loaded and heavy, but

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it was back then, you know, I had pretty much

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grown up with at the time, my three siblings, even

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though I'm one of seven in total, but it was just,

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you know it, we'd grown up, we'd lived in parts

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of the UK for a bit, I mean maybe lived

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around the world, but I kind of had those three

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siblings I'd grown up with, and then being put in

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board in school. And I make this very whenever I'm

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doing a keynote. I don't want people to think board

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in school, like I don't know eton where Prince Harry

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or William went. Now we're talking a scene in Survivors

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where there's no camera crew and you're lucky if you

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get any rice. So I want to make here that

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it was not in Nigeria.

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Nigeria. Yeah, yeah, in Nigeria. So it was.

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It was extremely scary. Like even just saying it now,

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I have the visceral feeling of how that must have felt,

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being eleven years old and going into the back and

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beyond bush and going to boarding school where had to

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fetch my own water. I was a junior. Everybody got

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assigned a senior who you had to fetch their water for.

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When I mean fetch, I mean like, yeah, walk up.

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I don't know, kilometer two kilometers with a pail on

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your head. I didn't have any of these skills, especially

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having done a stint in the UK. Now, then it

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would have been I'm assuming scary, horrifying. There were lots

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of tears, lots of year seven crying, but it's also

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given me major resilience. I don't think I would have

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probably have survived past the first two years in Australia

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if it wasn't for my experience in boarding school. Like

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I can really put that link together. So it's this

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kind of contrast. Yeah, absolutely, that's one that comes up

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pretty strong for me.

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Yeah.

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I was reading about your experience at boarding school and

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it does sound horrifying.

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Why was it?

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Well, what was the reasoning your other siblings didn't go

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to boarding school?

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No? Yeah, what what I mean?

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Do you know did you ask him?

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Well, well, no, this is a great question, cas And

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you know, I was just feeling it yesterday. If there

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was a parent, I was going to ask questions who

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I would not fear being retributed or like kind of

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told to shush. It would be my dad, And sadly

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he's not here, which is why, you know, whenever I

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get the chance, I say, if there is a parent

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or anyone who's alive and you have questions, go ask

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them now while they're still here.

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You know, I do.

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My relationship with my mum is a lot better. I

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have so much love and respect for her, but we

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don't necessarily see eye to eye. Think she probably finds

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my curiosity extremely challenging, probably doesn't understand why I just won't.

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Let things be.

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But I hmm, let's just hope she never listens to

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this podcast. But honestly, I personally think that I was

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sent to board in school as a punishment to my dad.

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Wow.

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I actually said this out loud yesterday. Punishment Dad. I

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believe I was Daddy's girl. I'm the first girl I believe.

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I'll not believe. I was very close to my dad

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as a young child, and Nigeria was getting quite difficult

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to live in and maintain cost of living and all

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of that, especially as the resources continue to be depleted,

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and so my mom and there would have probably been

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other reasons, so I just want to highlight this is

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my view. My mom would have taken my three younger

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sisters to the UK, and my dad was to have

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the other three, my two brothers and I. But for

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some reason, the boys got put in private school and

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day school so they were able to the driver was

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able to take them to school and back home. And

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it seems like a decision was made to put me

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on board in school. I mean, I sit down and

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think about it and think, how didn't you just take

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me to the UK? And look, I'm saying that as

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a mother myself, that can't have been easy for her.

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And I don't know, maybe she thought my dad couldn't

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handle me with the boy. It just I still don't know, Cass,

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like we are having a live live session here on podcasts,

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but really don't know. But parts of me thinks part

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of it was potentially to hurt my dad because yeah,

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you wouldn't have had access to me.

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So this it was at this point that your parents

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were separating. Is that what was happening and your mum

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went to the UUK on culturally? Culturally we wouldn't have

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been classified as separated, have been classified as we need

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to do what we need to do. So I think

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as kids it would have been told we've just got

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to go make it work in yeah, yeah, in the UK.

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But once again, Cass, I'm still from that very close

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to generation that you just didn't speak about it and

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you didn't share with kids. And maybe at the time

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I could have got it, but I still don't know

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to date. And this is why I'm so interested in

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the work I do. Is how how long do we

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keep things as secrets? And do we just sit and

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wait for our kids to make I don't know the

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same mistakes or steps. I find it fascinating. Yeah, it

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is interesting when you have your own children, isn't it,

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and then you reflect. I do the same thing sometimes

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I look back at things that I was going through

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and then look at my daughter, and at the time

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I felt like, I don't know, so grown up or whatever,

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and I think I was a baby. Like it's yeah,

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it's it's heart breaking when you look back at yourself

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what you went through, isn't it when you see you're

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like your children? Yeah?

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Yeah, yeah, you're almost. It's weird. It's like I only

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now have compassion for myself as a child because the

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thought of any of my kids going through or experience

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in what I did, which, yeah, which removes me from

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the whole process. It's yeah, really interesting.

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So you did survive two years in the boarding school.

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Yeah, before you came to my mum. Yeah, every year. Yeah,

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it was intense. I needed to get out of there

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and thankfully she got me out.

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Yeah.

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And then how was that coming to the UK into

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a like a day school.

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I mean, I was just happy to be with my sisters,

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you know. I was close to one sister in particular.

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I'm actually in the UK next week for her fortieth

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and I was, Yeah, I was really close to us.

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I was just glad to be back there. I was

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just also really glad to just be able to put

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the tap on and not have to go to klum

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to go fetch my water to have a shower or bath. Definitely,

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the readjustment may have been a bit tricky, but I

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have no memory of any discomfort. I just kind of

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got on with it. I had quite a strong Nigerian

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accent at the time, so the British accent was always

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a little bit there, but obviously assimilate when I got

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when I was in Nigerian and there may have been,

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you know, maybe some challenges in school, but I was

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I was just glad to be there. I mean, we

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were six kids in the two bedroom flat.

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We were living well.

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Life, life was life was great. I was really happy.

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I was happy to sleep on an airbed. And yeah,

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it's it's been a profound part of the rest, I guess,

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my entry into early adulthood.

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And you obviously, you know, you went along to eventually

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study mechanical engineering, which is kind of awesome, you know,

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I know, right, isn't it?

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It's very cood A few lives, it is.

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It is really cool. I'm now beginning to own own

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that a lot more than I have. It's it's pretty dope,

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and I think I have this this way of underplay

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and stuff. But yeah, I'm a mechanical engineer first class

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degree as well, so.

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I know, right. And and I was just you know,

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I was looking back through your book, which honestly, I

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will talk about your book because I actually didn't hadn't

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realized that you'd written one.

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But it's a.

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Great read, and I haven't had the time to read

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all of it. But I was reading that. You know,

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you struggled initially, like you didn't get the marks that

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you wanted, and so there was some real resilience that

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you had to dig into to continue.

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Yeah, oh absolutely, I mean I think I was maybe

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relatively intelligent whatever that is, I don't know what the

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standard is, but I failed. I mean I really, if

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I had the choice, I would have done maths, biology,

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in chemistry. That's what I wanted to do. But apparently

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that well, teachers didn't think I could get the grades,

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and so they didn't let me do the subjects. I

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was never able to prove if I could or not,

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and then I didn't get the grades to even get

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into my regular degree. You kind of remember what I

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did want to do. So I had to do a

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foundation of engineering and I definitely felt that forty percent

240
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was the mark. I got thirty four. For some reason.

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They led me through and was able to work my

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way through, and you know, I'd then climb up to

243
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a D grade and then it was a C grade

244
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in the second year and I had a year out

245
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and that it was I mean, I didn't have the language.

246
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Then I was like, come on, you can get a first.

247
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You just need a seventy one. And I pulled out

248
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all the stops. There was a lot of strategy of

249
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what's the best way for me to study and to

250
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absolutely ace it. So definitely didn't come easy. There was work,

251
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but I mean that victory at the end is so sweet.

252
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Yeah that it's taken me almost two decades to celebrate it.

253
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But yeah, why do you think that is.

254
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The imposter syndrome? I my version of imposter syndrome. You know,

255
00:12:38.480 --> 00:12:40.279
just did a little bit of research for some of

256
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the keynotes I do. Is my version of imposter syndrome.

257
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There's a certain archetype and mine is the one. If

258
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I could do it, then it can't be that hard. Yeah,

259
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that's what mine is. And it's you know, I'm doing

260
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a pH d now. I mean, just before I came on,

261
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I need to submit my mid candidsture report and I

262
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had to say, yea me, are you aware that you're

263
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doing this? You are two years in, you've got one

264
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year down, Like, just don't overlook this, like really celebrate

265
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what you're doing, because there still is this thing of

266
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if I'm doing it, then it can't be that hard.

267
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And that's what I think that is. And here I

268
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was having failed is like I'm showing what's possible, but

269
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still thinking it's somebody else's story and not mine.

270
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Yeah, that's interesting because I do a lot of working

271
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imposter syndrome. I became really interested in that. A couple

272
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of years ago, because it showed up so often with

273
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people and women that I work with, and I also

274
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recognized it in myself and really trying to understand like

275
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what is this And the way I describe it to

276
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people is you can have all the success on paper,

277
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but there's an inability to actually own that I did that,

278
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that that's a reflection on my competence and my capability

279
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and my intelligence and my grit and my resius alliance.

280
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It's because either I just have to work harder than

281
00:14:03.000 --> 00:14:05.480
everybody else I can do the work and get the marks,

282
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or I just got lucky somebody they must have just

283
00:14:08.679 --> 00:14:11.320
needed my money at the university. You said that in

284
00:14:11.360 --> 00:14:14.639
your book. Yeh, somebody took a shine to me. I

285
00:14:14.679 --> 00:14:16.639
was in the right place at the right time. So

286
00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:20.000
it's all this batting away all the good stuff is

287
00:14:20.039 --> 00:14:22.159
because of something outside of me, or because I just

288
00:14:22.240 --> 00:14:24.159
dug in and I have to work hard on other

289
00:14:24.159 --> 00:14:27.639
people who are the actual clever people. Correct, yeah, or

290
00:14:28.399 --> 00:14:32.159
and but if I fail, that's all on me, you know,

291
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like if I do something bad, like completely own that

292
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and have that reflect on my sense of my self

293
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worth and my competence. So it's this disparity in how

294
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we attribute and acknowledge success and failure.

295
00:14:45.080 --> 00:14:48.919
Absolutely, it's true. If I failed, then it's all on me.

296
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If if I got through, it's just yeah fluke didn't. Yeah,

297
00:14:52.600 --> 00:14:56.519
businesses as well, Yeah yeah fluke. Yeah, yeah, I mean

298
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I remember when I I mean might come to but

299
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when I open my gym in the kay, it was

300
00:15:00.600 --> 00:15:02.759
the same thing. And I realized that was the reason

301
00:15:02.799 --> 00:15:04.600
why I didn't want to sell it. I didn't want

302
00:15:04.639 --> 00:15:06.679
to sell it in case it was a fluke that

303
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I happened to open up this business and I might

304
00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:11.679
not be able to do the same thing again. It

305
00:15:11.759 --> 00:15:14.720
was really liberating to figure that out and get rid

306
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of that story.

307
00:15:16.039 --> 00:15:19.279
Yeah, it is really interesting when you reflect on some

308
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of that because that because that's what keeps us stuck.

309
00:15:21.759 --> 00:15:25.120
That's what keeps us stuck in the overworking or the

310
00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:28.279
fear and the and the hiding and the stanks more.

311
00:15:28.320 --> 00:15:32.639
Because it's Okay, I got lucky at that time. Yeah,

312
00:15:32.799 --> 00:15:34.519
you know, but my luck's going to run out. I

313
00:15:34.559 --> 00:15:37.799
can't count out, so there's nothing that you can hold

314
00:15:37.840 --> 00:15:42.759
on again, correct. Yeah, So yeah, let's talk about that.

315
00:15:42.799 --> 00:15:47.440
So mechanical engineering, yay, I bought a gym.

316
00:15:47.960 --> 00:15:52.200
So let's have multiple businesses.

317
00:15:52.240 --> 00:15:54.799
I understand you own or have find and run.

318
00:15:54.879 --> 00:15:56.600
Yeah, yeah, yeah, let's.

319
00:15:56.399 --> 00:15:57.879
Talk about that very different ones.

320
00:15:58.080 --> 00:15:59.120
Yeah, what do you want to know?

321
00:16:00.159 --> 00:16:00.399
Why?

322
00:16:00.639 --> 00:16:03.039
When I'm interested in people's stories.

323
00:16:03.080 --> 00:16:04.960
So the whole trajectory of how I came from.

324
00:16:05.120 --> 00:16:07.039
I've got out of university. I've worked really hard. I've

325
00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:08.279
got a first class.

326
00:16:08.320 --> 00:16:12.399
Mechanical engineering degree. It so what I've worked for I know, Oh,

327
00:16:12.440 --> 00:16:14.159
by Jim, how did that come about?

328
00:16:15.159 --> 00:16:18.519
I'm you know, I don't do that many podcast interviews,

329
00:16:18.559 --> 00:16:21.519
but I love that I'm now becoming significantly more intentional

330
00:16:21.519 --> 00:16:24.960
in the ones, and I get to know me even more.

331
00:16:25.000 --> 00:16:26.320
So I want to thank you in case I didn't

332
00:16:26.360 --> 00:16:27.320
make that clear, just for this.

333
00:16:27.679 --> 00:16:28.879
Opportunity, thank you.

334
00:16:29.960 --> 00:16:31.919
I would have graduated two thousand and five and then

335
00:16:31.960 --> 00:16:33.919
I would have opened my gym twenty eighteen.

336
00:16:34.639 --> 00:16:36.399
So oh okay, so there's quite a gap that.

337
00:16:36.639 --> 00:16:38.519
Yeah, there is a gap. So I want to highlight

338
00:16:38.600 --> 00:16:40.360
that there is a gap. Did I think that I

339
00:16:40.399 --> 00:16:41.600
would be doing that at some point?

340
00:16:41.679 --> 00:16:41.720
No?

341
00:16:41.840 --> 00:16:45.720
Did I have entrepreneurial flare? Absolutely? In university I joined

342
00:16:46.960 --> 00:16:49.279
a group working with three other boys called Black Cases,

343
00:16:49.320 --> 00:16:51.799
and we used to run events and rapes at university,

344
00:16:52.200 --> 00:16:57.320
so there's always been something in me. The gym would

345
00:16:57.320 --> 00:17:00.480
have come about once I kind of realized as we

346
00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:03.159
have one life, like something kind of flipped in me,

347
00:17:03.879 --> 00:17:08.319
which was, well, hold up, if this really is the

348
00:17:08.319 --> 00:17:11.200
one life I have in this body and this circumstance,

349
00:17:11.720 --> 00:17:14.200
what are you doing? And then I was just kind

350
00:17:14.200 --> 00:17:16.480
of like, yeah, let's give it. Let's give it a

351
00:17:16.480 --> 00:17:18.400
good crack. I always wanted to open up a gym.

352
00:17:18.440 --> 00:17:20.079
I remember wanting to open up a gym that had

353
00:17:20.079 --> 00:17:22.960
a crash because I used to struggle with finding somewhere

354
00:17:22.960 --> 00:17:25.480
I could work out and put my daughter in. But

355
00:17:25.519 --> 00:17:29.359
then coming to Australian seeing F forty five, I realized

356
00:17:29.400 --> 00:17:31.839
how much I actually loved community and that was really

357
00:17:31.839 --> 00:17:34.880
the big vibe of their forty five. And I for

358
00:17:34.920 --> 00:17:38.480
some reason figured that I know the geography of London

359
00:17:38.519 --> 00:17:40.920
better than Australia, even though I didn't live there anymore,

360
00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:44.519
and then had to battle with the limiting belief that said, yeah, me,

361
00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:46.319
you can't open up a business in a country you

362
00:17:46.359 --> 00:17:48.720
don't live. And so I did what I do best

363
00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:51.519
and started modeling and say, well, who's done it. Richard

364
00:17:51.519 --> 00:17:53.319
Branson was the first one that came to mind because

365
00:17:53.359 --> 00:17:55.480
I read his book, and you know, I worked in

366
00:17:55.480 --> 00:17:57.880
the rail industry and we always found it weird back

367
00:17:57.920 --> 00:17:59.799
then that you just got this dude who used to

368
00:17:59.799 --> 00:18:02.279
have planes now wanting to come into rail industry. And

369
00:18:02.319 --> 00:18:05.079
I thought, well, if he could do it, why can't I.

370
00:18:05.240 --> 00:18:07.880
And I know that our resources were very different, but

371
00:18:07.960 --> 00:18:11.920
it was all mindset and I always wanted to do it.

372
00:18:11.960 --> 00:18:14.960
I wanted community. I knew Brixton in South London was

373
00:18:15.400 --> 00:18:18.000
becoming heavily gentrified, and I thought I could be a

374
00:18:18.039 --> 00:18:21.240
pillar of the community that can maybe bring rich diversity together.

375
00:18:22.119 --> 00:18:24.359
And it was just it was a dream that took off,

376
00:18:24.440 --> 00:18:29.400
not not without major hiccups, but probably my big my

377
00:18:29.480 --> 00:18:34.160
biggest birth in experience in adulthood outside of given birth

378
00:18:34.160 --> 00:18:37.319
to children. It really created a different version of me

379
00:18:37.480 --> 00:18:39.160
that I love so much.

380
00:18:39.519 --> 00:18:42.279
Opening a business is one thing. Doing it somewhere where

381
00:18:42.319 --> 00:18:45.519
you don't live like that is a whole other. Yeah,

382
00:18:45.880 --> 00:18:47.039
life of challenge.

383
00:18:47.599 --> 00:18:50.319
It really really isn't really was. I guess that the

384
00:18:50.599 --> 00:18:53.160
slight blessing was the fact that was a franchise, so

385
00:18:53.200 --> 00:18:54.960
there was a model that you could mimic. I mean,

386
00:18:55.480 --> 00:18:59.039
I opened up a cafe in Australia. Can never remember

387
00:18:59.039 --> 00:19:02.480
twenty twenty maybe two twenty one, close that down. It

388
00:19:02.519 --> 00:19:04.920
was harder running that and I was in the same

389
00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:08.720
country than it was running the gym, So it's yeah,

390
00:19:08.920 --> 00:19:12.200
it just it varies once again. I learned. I learned

391
00:19:12.279 --> 00:19:14.759
enough about myself, but no more entrepreneuri pursuits for a

392
00:19:14.799 --> 00:19:18.359
little while. Piped down, Yeamy, piped.

393
00:19:18.079 --> 00:19:19.319
Down, so Yev.

394
00:19:19.839 --> 00:19:23.359
That's kind of the gist of the backstory with you.

395
00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:25.400
And now you are back doing a PhD. And now

396
00:19:25.440 --> 00:19:29.200
you are really you're working in the area of trauma

397
00:19:29.359 --> 00:19:31.960
and dealing you know, obviously this has been a process

398
00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:34.480
for you reflecting on and you to use the term

399
00:19:34.559 --> 00:19:39.599
cleaning up your own trauma and like helping to for

400
00:19:39.720 --> 00:19:41.359
other people to be able to do the same thing.

401
00:19:41.960 --> 00:19:45.119
At what point did you was there a point or

402
00:19:45.799 --> 00:19:49.200
what was the process for you to get to where

403
00:19:49.279 --> 00:19:51.880
you are now with this focus on trauma?

404
00:19:52.039 --> 00:19:52.599
You know where?

405
00:19:53.319 --> 00:19:56.079
How did you sort of uncover that and decide that's

406
00:19:56.079 --> 00:19:56.960
where you needed to go.

407
00:19:58.319 --> 00:20:01.079
I think it would have been bubbling up in me

408
00:20:02.079 --> 00:20:03.640
for a good couple of years, but there have been

409
00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:05.559
a few things that would have happened that would have

410
00:20:05.559 --> 00:20:08.000
been a catalyst to say do something. So in twenty

411
00:20:08.039 --> 00:20:11.880
twenty might be in October, I released my first documentary title,

412
00:20:11.960 --> 00:20:14.599
Did I Choose My Trauma? It was not meant to

413
00:20:14.640 --> 00:20:17.279
be that. I was meant to do a documentary following

414
00:20:17.319 --> 00:20:19.400
my book Did You Get the Memo? Because I wanted

415
00:20:19.400 --> 00:20:21.200
to talk about life. But I had a brilliant business

416
00:20:21.240 --> 00:20:23.440
manager at the time who was like, maybe you should

417
00:20:23.440 --> 00:20:25.759
do something about trauma. But I still had this belief

418
00:20:25.759 --> 00:20:29.160
of no, no one wants to hear no victims, Let's

419
00:20:29.240 --> 00:20:31.720
keep it moving. There's no time for petty parties. So

420
00:20:31.799 --> 00:20:36.400
that was the view I still had on trauma stories. However,

421
00:20:37.039 --> 00:20:39.880
what got me doing it, and I mean, I don't

422
00:20:39.880 --> 00:20:41.640
know how you feel about trigger warnings, but just giving

423
00:20:41.680 --> 00:20:45.720
people their heads up for self care was earlier that

424
00:20:45.799 --> 00:20:48.000
year of twenty twenty, and she's given me her blessing

425
00:20:48.079 --> 00:20:51.519
to share this. I saw some marks on my daughter's

426
00:20:51.519 --> 00:20:55.640
wrist that kind of had me leave my body because

427
00:20:55.759 --> 00:20:59.160
they looked like welt that my ancestors would have had

428
00:20:59.279 --> 00:21:03.519
that I've seen from movies, and it was this weird

429
00:21:03.640 --> 00:21:06.039
thing that then I didn't have the language for. But

430
00:21:06.079 --> 00:21:08.400
I'm pretty confident I left my body like my mind.

431
00:21:08.440 --> 00:21:11.839
I can't remember if things went into slow motion and

432
00:21:12.200 --> 00:21:16.039
I kind of went into business mode. Person, Okay, I

433
00:21:16.079 --> 00:21:18.359
need to get you to a therapist. I need you're

434
00:21:18.359 --> 00:21:20.400
going to go see someone. They needed to be a

435
00:21:20.440 --> 00:21:22.319
black woman because some of the stuff was to do

436
00:21:22.359 --> 00:21:26.599
with racism in Australia. But what happened was this therapist

437
00:21:27.000 --> 00:21:30.400
noticed something in me that obviously I wasn't aware and said, yeah,

438
00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:34.839
maybe you should see a psychologist. And it was when

439
00:21:34.880 --> 00:21:41.240
I spoke to the psychologist that I realized that transfering

440
00:21:41.359 --> 00:21:44.279
trauma doesn't necessarily mean you do what was done to

441
00:21:44.319 --> 00:21:48.000
you to somebody else. How you respond to it might

442
00:21:48.039 --> 00:21:50.720
actually be how you continue to respond to it when

443
00:21:50.920 --> 00:21:52.720
even if it's your children or some of your most

444
00:21:52.759 --> 00:21:57.519
loved ones. And that was when I believe something that

445
00:21:57.559 --> 00:22:01.319
was already bruining me started to have voice and agency,

446
00:22:01.440 --> 00:22:04.480
which is, oh, so if I don't look at my stuff,

447
00:22:04.519 --> 00:22:07.160
not only can it impact me, it can also impact

448
00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:11.960
how I respond to traumatic incidences that my children go through.

449
00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:15.920
And because there's nothing small about, you know, the role

450
00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:18.039
I want to play in the world, I just really

451
00:22:18.079 --> 00:22:21.319
got interested in saying, well, how can the rest of

452
00:22:21.359 --> 00:22:22.559
the world get in on.

453
00:22:22.480 --> 00:22:25.079
This, hence PhD.

454
00:22:25.960 --> 00:22:27.480
Yeah, I'm striting.

455
00:22:29.559 --> 00:22:32.880
Well the documentary that I first did. Other document response

456
00:22:32.960 --> 00:22:36.279
to was not I didn't want to do the PhD. Cass,

457
00:22:36.319 --> 00:22:39.200
I really didn't. I mean, I've got a master's. I

458
00:22:39.240 --> 00:22:41.480
was like, I'm done, the master's almost finished me. I

459
00:22:41.519 --> 00:22:45.240
was like, this is too many words. I'm writing the engineering,

460
00:22:45.279 --> 00:22:49.720
brain lights, calculations and just keeping it moving. And I'm

461
00:22:49.799 --> 00:22:53.279
you know, Australia's gifted me this ability to connect I

462
00:22:53.319 --> 00:22:56.359
feel with my ancestors and for me where spirituality comes in.

463
00:22:57.200 --> 00:22:59.599
And I kind of got this nudge and guidance of no,

464
00:22:59.680 --> 00:23:01.559
we need to study. And the next form of study

465
00:23:01.640 --> 00:23:03.960
was a PhD. And I remember kind of having this

466
00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:06.599
in a dialogue, saying, well, if I do a PhD. Well, first,

467
00:23:06.759 --> 00:23:08.200
I was like, it's four years and they were like,

468
00:23:08.279 --> 00:23:09.480
this is going to be your life's work.

469
00:23:09.519 --> 00:23:10.279
What was four years?

470
00:23:10.359 --> 00:23:13.279
I was like, okay, to show I hear you so,

471
00:23:14.079 --> 00:23:16.519
and then I said, well, if I'm going to do it,

472
00:23:16.759 --> 00:23:18.759
then I need to be able to do it documentary

473
00:23:18.759 --> 00:23:20.799
style because I want to use the creative side of

474
00:23:20.799 --> 00:23:22.799
my brain and I don't want everything to be about

475
00:23:22.799 --> 00:23:29.200
words and calculations and honestly that the signs just came

476
00:23:29.240 --> 00:23:31.319
through really easy. I knew I had to find the

477
00:23:31.400 --> 00:23:35.359
right supervisors. I found them in La Trobe and they said, yeah,

478
00:23:35.400 --> 00:23:38.200
it's going to be an art based research and you

479
00:23:38.319 --> 00:23:41.200
can do it. And you know, it's started to have wings.

480
00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:44.400
I started recording two weeks ago, and I'm looking at

481
00:23:44.440 --> 00:23:47.519
the transformation of cultural trauma through the process of making

482
00:23:47.519 --> 00:23:52.440
a documentary but with a decolonized lens. And it's just

483
00:23:52.759 --> 00:23:57.839
as juicy as excited to contribute to this field. And

484
00:23:58.160 --> 00:24:00.440
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think research

485
00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:04.519
will probably be part of my contribution for a long time.

486
00:24:05.119 --> 00:24:07.039
Oh there's so much good stuff that you have just

487
00:24:07.039 --> 00:24:11.000
said there, yummy, So you had to go through a process.

488
00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:14.160
It's I mean, first of all, just to acknowledge that

489
00:24:14.160 --> 00:24:17.759
that attitude of nobody wants a pity party, like just

490
00:24:17.839 --> 00:24:20.359
crack on, very English term that just crack on, and

491
00:24:20.440 --> 00:24:23.039
I just crack on, you know, keep it moving, and

492
00:24:23.480 --> 00:24:27.039
this very let linear kind of left brain like nobody

493
00:24:27.039 --> 00:24:28.880
wants to look at it, not just because oh nobody

494
00:24:28.880 --> 00:24:30.759
wants to hear that, but also I don't want to

495
00:24:30.759 --> 00:24:35.079
look at that. It's it's frightening and it's a bit

496
00:24:35.119 --> 00:24:37.599
confronting to look at that sort of stuff even in

497
00:24:37.640 --> 00:24:41.680
your own life. So absolutely, that's obviously a real shift

498
00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:45.880
for you to to stop and to turn around to

499
00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:48.599
do that work and to really look at your own

500
00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:50.839
history with the view to you know, being able to

501
00:24:50.839 --> 00:24:53.640
make sure that you don't transfer that to your own kids.

502
00:24:53.640 --> 00:24:56.519
So what was that process for you? Was it you know, therapy?

503
00:24:56.680 --> 00:24:58.920
Like what sort of things did you need to do

504
00:24:59.039 --> 00:25:00.720
to work through your own own trauma?

505
00:25:01.960 --> 00:25:05.079
I think the first one would have been writing it

506
00:25:05.119 --> 00:25:08.039
in my book, so I'd gotten comfortable with speaking about it.

507
00:25:08.119 --> 00:25:10.640
And this is the gift once again that Australia gave me.

508
00:25:10.680 --> 00:25:13.160
You know, all my siblings, what most of my siblings

509
00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:15.079
are in the UK and I've got one in Nigeria,

510
00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:20.680
so I haven't had the family dynamics and paradigm to

511
00:25:21.880 --> 00:25:24.400
you know, squash or not give me the space to

512
00:25:25.039 --> 00:25:27.559
explore things like you know, I had one of my sisters,

513
00:25:27.599 --> 00:25:29.279
I had a chat with her last week and she said,

514
00:25:29.319 --> 00:25:32.039
you know, Sis, you almost speak in a different language

515
00:25:32.079 --> 00:25:34.160
like I think they probably just kind of here in

516
00:25:34.200 --> 00:25:38.839
Nema stay now mustaynmastay come out of my mouth, which

517
00:25:40.359 --> 00:25:42.559
and I don't think it's thrown as an insult, but

518
00:25:42.599 --> 00:25:45.279
that we're in different well when different stages, different parts

519
00:25:45.319 --> 00:25:46.599
of the world. I mean, I don't know how long

520
00:25:46.640 --> 00:25:48.839
you've been there, but it's very, very, very fast paced,

521
00:25:48.839 --> 00:25:52.759
and you know, we don't always necessarily have that luxury

522
00:25:52.799 --> 00:25:57.279
of slightly more calmness in Australia. So for me, it

523
00:25:57.359 --> 00:25:59.799
was actually getting comfortable to speaking about it. First I

524
00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:01.880
it in my book, then I got invited to do

525
00:26:01.960 --> 00:26:06.160
the Ted Talk, then I did my documentary and so

526
00:26:06.359 --> 00:26:08.519
my profile started to build a bit more. So what

527
00:26:08.559 --> 00:26:11.400
it did was I started to get more comfortable in

528
00:26:11.519 --> 00:26:14.680
using my voice, and I started to find that where

529
00:26:14.759 --> 00:26:18.079
my agency lined, like I knew, I wasn't a ah,

530
00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:18.799
you did this.

531
00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:19.200
You know.

532
00:26:19.559 --> 00:26:22.400
Once again, rage, sacred rage from some of the people

533
00:26:22.440 --> 00:26:26.720
I follow is valid. It's understandable, and who knows, it

534
00:26:26.799 --> 00:26:29.400
might come up for me, but that wasn't That's not

535
00:26:29.519 --> 00:26:31.640
the role I think I'm here to play in this work.

536
00:26:32.240 --> 00:26:37.000
And yeah, I just I got reaffirmed and got okay

537
00:26:37.039 --> 00:26:39.799
with speaking about it. I still think maybe some close

538
00:26:39.839 --> 00:26:41.799
people still don't get it. They still think it's me

539
00:26:41.920 --> 00:26:45.640
just talking about what happened to me. Whereas I'm saying, actually,

540
00:26:45.680 --> 00:26:47.519
what happened to me is making me want to create

541
00:26:47.519 --> 00:26:49.559
the space for people to acknowledge what happened to them,

542
00:26:49.640 --> 00:26:52.160
but to then start doing the work and if should

543
00:26:52.160 --> 00:26:54.079
they feel like it, start contributing back.

544
00:26:54.440 --> 00:26:57.480
Yeah, were you're family aware of the sexual abuse that

545
00:26:57.519 --> 00:27:01.279
you experienced, because that's a big obstacle for many people

546
00:27:01.319 --> 00:27:03.519
to speak up about what happened, because then the closest

547
00:27:03.559 --> 00:27:06.960
people to them, who maybe have they've never told or knew.

548
00:27:07.000 --> 00:27:12.119
Yeah. I thought for a long time that when I

549
00:27:12.160 --> 00:27:15.000
was young, at seven eight, where the memories are stronger,

550
00:27:16.160 --> 00:27:20.920
I definitely felt like some knew. But when this uncle

551
00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:25.079
came back again in two thousand and twelve or whenever

552
00:27:25.119 --> 00:27:26.720
it was, and I found out he was looking after

553
00:27:27.440 --> 00:27:30.920
one of my nieces, obviously I was older. I started

554
00:27:30.920 --> 00:27:33.119
calling all of them, and I think one or two

555
00:27:33.119 --> 00:27:35.279
of my siblings thought, I think I remember this happening.

556
00:27:35.319 --> 00:27:37.880
But you know that my siblings, if I don't bring

557
00:27:37.880 --> 00:27:41.000
it up, they're not going to bring it up. But

558
00:27:41.039 --> 00:27:43.119
then when I spoke to my auntie, she said we'd

559
00:27:43.160 --> 00:27:46.200
heard stuff about him, So I think people knew. People

560
00:27:46.319 --> 00:27:50.759
knew he had that tendency, whether they knew about my story,

561
00:27:50.839 --> 00:27:53.279
especially as I hadn't said it for pretty much all

562
00:27:53.279 --> 00:27:56.000
of my adult life, it wouldn't have had any resons.

563
00:27:56.039 --> 00:27:58.440
But what was quite interesting was that me saying it

564
00:27:58.559 --> 00:28:02.200
in my early thirty didn't look like it was going

565
00:28:02.279 --> 00:28:06.200
to change much, and in fact didn't. Yes, it may

566
00:28:06.240 --> 00:28:10.799
have made a few people uncomfortable, may have actually fractured

567
00:28:10.799 --> 00:28:14.839
some relationships till today that aren't the same. But did

568
00:28:14.880 --> 00:28:18.839
it do anything where there was some sort of you know, conversation.

569
00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:22.079
You know, I'm actually a bit disappointed in what I'm

570
00:28:22.079 --> 00:28:25.119
calling the matriarch in the family, But then that means

571
00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:28.200
I'm going to need to hold myself to similar account

572
00:28:28.240 --> 00:28:30.359
at some point. Is it the role of the matriarch's

573
00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:33.680
question marks? This is where my curiosity continues to live

574
00:28:34.240 --> 00:28:36.920
so not so much that maybe people didn't listen to

575
00:28:36.960 --> 00:28:40.440
me as young yemmy, but listen to me it is

576
00:28:40.599 --> 00:28:42.759
thirty year old yemy. Yeah, and what was happening to

577
00:28:42.799 --> 00:28:47.519
this other smaller Yeah, that's and that's where it once

578
00:28:47.559 --> 00:28:50.960
again maybe started to form in my head of Okay,

579
00:28:50.480 --> 00:28:53.400
this is an issue that is not just in the

580
00:28:53.480 --> 00:28:56.839
nuclear family, it's also community because there were other things

581
00:28:56.839 --> 00:28:58.759
that went on that made me think, oh wow, this

582
00:28:58.839 --> 00:29:01.839
isn't just me. This happens to a lot of people.

583
00:29:04.200 --> 00:29:06.839
You've talked about and a lot of the work that

584
00:29:06.880 --> 00:29:09.799
you do. You know, you mentioned before mindset, you talk

585
00:29:09.839 --> 00:29:12.279
about you know, these stories that you have about who

586
00:29:12.359 --> 00:29:16.519
am I to do this work? And so I think

587
00:29:16.680 --> 00:29:19.039
you know that the limiting beliefs for one of a

588
00:29:19.079 --> 00:29:21.680
better expression, you know, the limited beliefs that we will adopt,

589
00:29:21.720 --> 00:29:26.400
you know, we at some point confront those, transform them,

590
00:29:26.680 --> 00:29:29.160
do work around them. The other thing to do with trauma,

591
00:29:29.160 --> 00:29:33.240
which particularly interests me, is the way it impacts your

592
00:29:33.240 --> 00:29:37.119
nervous system. Yeah you know this obviously, but you know

593
00:29:37.640 --> 00:29:39.400
trauma and I've heard you talk about it too, the

594
00:29:39.440 --> 00:29:42.519
way that you have a visceral response, your whole body

595
00:29:42.559 --> 00:29:45.599
will respond. I'm curious to know, like in your own

596
00:29:45.759 --> 00:29:50.680
kind of trauma transformation, trauma recovery, Like, were there things

597
00:29:50.759 --> 00:29:53.759
that you have done in that area, like in terms

598
00:29:53.799 --> 00:29:58.000
of like that somatic kind of body based healing.

599
00:29:58.440 --> 00:30:02.200
Yeah, I still think I'm in the early stages. So

600
00:30:02.200 --> 00:30:08.440
I'm currently doing a course on sematic embodiment emotional freedom.

601
00:30:08.559 --> 00:30:12.160
Is it technical or taping that I always find very

602
00:30:12.279 --> 00:30:14.640
useful for me just to bring me back in my body.

603
00:30:15.880 --> 00:30:18.400
What I didn't realize is because I love dancing, that's

604
00:30:18.440 --> 00:30:20.319
a big thing for me. Like that, I don't know.

605
00:30:20.400 --> 00:30:24.559
It's I mean, put me anywhere where someone starts beating

606
00:30:24.599 --> 00:30:29.000
the drum, my body will move without my permission. But

607
00:30:29.240 --> 00:30:31.359
one thing that's just come up as you're sharing it.

608
00:30:31.440 --> 00:30:34.279
I was at an event and I did She's got

609
00:30:34.319 --> 00:30:35.960
a show on Netflix. I was at one of her

610
00:30:35.960 --> 00:30:39.920
things and it was pole dancing. But let's take away

611
00:30:39.960 --> 00:30:44.920
the heaviness we've attached to it. It was more sensual

612
00:30:45.079 --> 00:30:48.799
and I got really emotional. So that's probably the deepest

613
00:30:48.799 --> 00:30:50.680
And I keep on being called to go back, but

614
00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:53.720
I think I need to do it first without anybody

615
00:30:53.720 --> 00:30:57.240
else in the room, without a group where And it's

616
00:30:57.279 --> 00:31:00.519
not necessarily about the pole, but it's for me. It

617
00:31:01.039 --> 00:31:03.319
was nice to have something to kind of just like

618
00:31:03.480 --> 00:31:07.400
hold onto because when I go back to that feeling,

619
00:31:08.559 --> 00:31:10.799
I wanted to be as liberated as the women that

620
00:31:10.839 --> 00:31:14.880
were dancing. It showed that I am actually still very

621
00:31:14.960 --> 00:31:18.880
uncomfortable in my body and owning it. So that's actually

622
00:31:18.920 --> 00:31:21.440
an activity that I think would be really liberating for me.

623
00:31:21.599 --> 00:31:24.200
And similarly, I went to Costa Rica earlier this year,

624
00:31:25.279 --> 00:31:29.759
as I started to take an interest in indigenous plant medicines,

625
00:31:30.400 --> 00:31:33.519
and they had a dance liberation process which I have

626
00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:36.640
a mask on my face and they just play music,

627
00:31:36.720 --> 00:31:39.240
and because I can't see anybody, I let loose. But

628
00:31:39.279 --> 00:31:42.440
I have someone who guides me in and that sematically

629
00:31:43.000 --> 00:31:46.079
was wonderful for me to release stuff. I know I

630
00:31:46.119 --> 00:31:50.880
want to do more on there. But outside of that, yeah,

631
00:31:50.880 --> 00:31:53.079
I haven't investigated as much for my own for my

632
00:31:53.119 --> 00:31:54.039
own personal healing.

633
00:31:54.480 --> 00:31:59.440
It's fascinating, though, isn't it. I mean, the way that

634
00:31:59.680 --> 00:32:02.559
our we need to move our body, And I mean,

635
00:32:02.599 --> 00:32:05.079
I'm a psychologist, so I spent my all of my

636
00:32:05.440 --> 00:32:08.559
training learning that you just you know, what are the

637
00:32:09.119 --> 00:32:11.440
what's the story you're telling yourself, what's the belief? And

638
00:32:11.640 --> 00:32:14.400
change the belief. And I've always found that so frustrating.

639
00:32:14.400 --> 00:32:16.440
I always felt like I was banging my own head

640
00:32:16.480 --> 00:32:20.039
against the wall and almost banging my client's. He's against

641
00:32:20.039 --> 00:32:22.200
them all something because number one.

642
00:32:23.200 --> 00:32:23.680
Takes a lot.

643
00:32:23.720 --> 00:32:26.200
You got just instantly know what your limiting beliefs are

644
00:32:26.240 --> 00:32:30.000
because they're so kind of dormant, they're so unconscious to us,

645
00:32:30.519 --> 00:32:33.920
like it's a real process. To be tuned in and

646
00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:37.440
observant to those stories that we tell ourselves and the

647
00:32:38.039 --> 00:32:40.400
trauma lives in it. It activates a different part of

648
00:32:40.440 --> 00:32:42.240
our brain. So this is why I get I mean,

649
00:32:42.279 --> 00:32:45.359
excited's probably the wrong word, but I guess maybe relieved

650
00:32:45.599 --> 00:32:49.799
to know there's another way and to understand that actually

651
00:32:50.160 --> 00:32:53.319
there are all of these things that can be helpful

652
00:32:54.200 --> 00:33:00.599
for shifting and healing that just involve that body base physical.

653
00:33:00.799 --> 00:33:03.599
Yeah, because there is a paywall I think when it

654
00:33:03.640 --> 00:33:07.279
comes to therapy in the most Eurocentric and Western way.

655
00:33:07.359 --> 00:33:10.400
I mean a great a good friend of mine, doctor

656
00:33:10.440 --> 00:33:13.720
Jennifer Mullan has just literally about a couple of days ago,

657
00:33:13.799 --> 00:33:18.839
released a book called Decolonizing Therapy, and she's she clin

658
00:33:18.920 --> 00:33:23.200
course psychologist. She's definitely in the psychotherapy world because it

659
00:33:23.319 --> 00:33:25.480
is that it's how can we bring in other practices

660
00:33:25.519 --> 00:33:27.440
And I love the idea that we get rid of

661
00:33:27.519 --> 00:33:32.160
this paywall because we're all all going to need some

662
00:33:32.240 --> 00:33:35.319
sort of relief from the distress and events that happened

663
00:33:35.359 --> 00:33:37.640
to our sar generations in the world.

664
00:33:37.759 --> 00:33:42.400
Totally totally agree just on that too, because I studied tapping.

665
00:33:43.039 --> 00:33:45.319
I did, of course in e F T. Tapping I

666
00:33:45.440 --> 00:33:49.440
teach people tapping as well, but I'm actually just doing

667
00:33:49.599 --> 00:33:55.160
a just an online course on trauma therapy through yoga

668
00:33:55.720 --> 00:34:01.440
basically like yoga poses and movements that can how that

669
00:34:01.640 --> 00:34:04.200
impacts with the poly bagel kind of vegus nerve. Yeah,

670
00:34:04.240 --> 00:34:06.400
activating the vegus nerve, all of that sort of stuff

671
00:34:06.440 --> 00:34:10.360
for trauma healing. So it's interesting stuff. There's I think

672
00:34:10.400 --> 00:34:13.599
there's and it's accessible to everybody, Like that's the thing

673
00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:17.079
that it's accessible to everybody's if you know what it

674
00:34:17.159 --> 00:34:20.360
is that you're doing. But going I guess going back

675
00:34:20.480 --> 00:34:23.360
Yemmy to the idea about limiting beliefs, they do take

676
00:34:23.400 --> 00:34:25.760
a bit of work to uncover. But I guess, just

677
00:34:25.800 --> 00:34:29.800
for listeners, what were some of the things that you

678
00:34:30.360 --> 00:34:33.159
ultimately sort of identified were holding you back in terms

679
00:34:33.159 --> 00:34:35.559
of what you believed you were capable of. You know,

680
00:34:35.599 --> 00:34:38.519
what were some of your kind of limiting stories that

681
00:34:38.559 --> 00:34:41.480
you were telling yourself that you eventually realized, Oh, hang

682
00:34:41.519 --> 00:34:44.239
on a second, this is potentially not true, This is

683
00:34:44.239 --> 00:34:47.079
not reality. Because I know listeners will have their own

684
00:34:47.119 --> 00:34:51.159
and it's helpful sometimes to hear other people vocalize them.

685
00:34:51.480 --> 00:34:54.320
I said this today, I delivered a keynote earlier today,

686
00:34:54.519 --> 00:34:57.320
and I had a really big limiting belief that as

687
00:34:57.320 --> 00:35:00.440
a single parent, that I could only bring in the

688
00:35:00.480 --> 00:35:05.760
money of a single income household like cas Like now,

689
00:35:05.800 --> 00:35:09.079
it blows my mind. Why was I limited to that?

690
00:35:09.280 --> 00:35:12.199
And obviously it's because it's where it always focused my attention.

691
00:35:12.760 --> 00:35:15.519
I didn't know any other paradigm than a two parent household,

692
00:35:16.079 --> 00:35:18.840
and even and I already thought I was breaking that

693
00:35:18.880 --> 00:35:21.599
paradigm as an engineer and someone who is bringing money in.

694
00:35:22.639 --> 00:35:25.079
But what happened was the limiting belief was, Okay, we're

695
00:35:25.079 --> 00:35:26.599
going to struggle. I'm not going to be able to

696
00:35:26.599 --> 00:35:29.159
take the kids on holiday back to the UK or

697
00:35:29.199 --> 00:35:32.199
to America to go see their dads. Like I really

698
00:35:32.239 --> 00:35:37.239
had adopted it. And something happened and I thought, hold on,

699
00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:40.719
am I really going to own this story? I mean,

700
00:35:40.760 --> 00:35:44.440
you just moved from the UK to Australia and you

701
00:35:44.519 --> 00:35:47.719
are chatting the same stuff you were chatting when you

702
00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:52.280
were in government housing in the UK. You're telling me

703
00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:53.960
you've come to the other side and this is the

704
00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:57.360
same story. What if there's another story? And I got

705
00:35:57.480 --> 00:36:00.400
so curious, and you know, something kind of had the

706
00:36:00.440 --> 00:36:05.000
minute I challenged that belief. It was like, I don't know,

707
00:36:05.440 --> 00:36:08.559
some team elsewhere just started saying, Okay, we're going to

708
00:36:08.559 --> 00:36:10.079
put you in touch with this person. I'd speak to

709
00:36:10.159 --> 00:36:12.679
that person about setting up my own business, getting my

710
00:36:12.679 --> 00:36:16.679
first contract with the government income being twenty x. And

711
00:36:16.760 --> 00:36:19.559
I'm not exaggerate just but I obviously had to do

712
00:36:19.599 --> 00:36:22.480
the work because I took risks. But then that was

713
00:36:22.519 --> 00:36:25.239
the other thing. And who am I am? I the

714
00:36:25.360 --> 00:36:29.480
version of Yemi who's willing to take yes, calculated risks

715
00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:34.000
to get what she wants. Yeah, and I'm enjoying the ride.

716
00:36:34.039 --> 00:36:35.800
It freaks the hell out of me sometimes, but I'm

717
00:36:35.840 --> 00:36:36.519
enjoying the ride.

718
00:36:36.920 --> 00:36:38.760
That's amazing, isn't it true?

719
00:36:38.760 --> 00:36:42.639
Though? Like they they're just bubbling away there and they're

720
00:36:42.679 --> 00:36:45.840
running the show. You know that they're directing all of

721
00:36:45.840 --> 00:36:48.679
our decisions, all of the things that we do. And

722
00:36:48.719 --> 00:36:51.599
when that light bulb comes on and you realize, hold

723
00:36:51.639 --> 00:36:55.599
on a second, yeah.

724
00:36:54.159 --> 00:37:00.360
Exactly, exactly exactly that WTF. But they're running the ripped

725
00:37:00.400 --> 00:37:04.559
consciously and unconsciously. I think that's what's really scary. Yeah,

726
00:37:04.559 --> 00:37:06.800
that's what's really scary is that it almost feels like

727
00:37:06.920 --> 00:37:10.920
somebody else is running I don't know, running my software.

728
00:37:12.639 --> 00:37:14.280
But then the minute you kind of see and so

729
00:37:14.599 --> 00:37:16.760
it's something I try to apply to every time I'm

730
00:37:16.800 --> 00:37:20.599
in a place of discomfort. I come back and reactivate

731
00:37:20.639 --> 00:37:22.440
this and say, Okay, where does this believe come from,

732
00:37:23.119 --> 00:37:24.920
and what makes you think it's true? And how is

733
00:37:24.960 --> 00:37:26.679
it serving you? I go through it. But now it's

734
00:37:26.719 --> 00:37:29.440
just become such a practice that I can do it

735
00:37:29.480 --> 00:37:31.400
a lot quicker than I've probably ever done before.

736
00:37:31.800 --> 00:37:36.679
Yeah, definitely, definitely, you know, it's really worth doing. I

737
00:37:36.719 --> 00:37:38.280
just like the fact that now that we have got

738
00:37:38.320 --> 00:37:41.719
a multi layered approach to this healing and becoming our

739
00:37:41.760 --> 00:37:44.920
fullest versions of ourselves that don't just involve us using

740
00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:48.320
this front part of our brain, but actually we have

741
00:37:48.360 --> 00:37:51.440
access to all of this intelligence that lives in our body.

742
00:37:51.440 --> 00:37:53.800
And I love that you talk so openly to about

743
00:37:53.840 --> 00:37:57.960
this like spiritual like these ancestors or you know, these

744
00:37:58.360 --> 00:38:01.920
nudges of intuition, because that's an the whole layer. That's

745
00:38:01.920 --> 00:38:05.519
another whole resource that so many people don't choose not to,

746
00:38:06.199 --> 00:38:08.400
don't realize that they don't tap into.

747
00:38:08.480 --> 00:38:09.199
And it's correct.

748
00:38:09.280 --> 00:38:12.880
Yeah, I find it sad, and I know that this

749
00:38:12.880 --> 00:38:14.840
would be a question of belief and some people might say, well,

750
00:38:14.880 --> 00:38:16.440
I don't know who my ancestors are, and that's where

751
00:38:16.480 --> 00:38:19.679
the curiosity. That's what I'm saying, Get curious, Get get curious.

752
00:38:19.719 --> 00:38:22.280
I mean, let's just even go one generation away. If

753
00:38:22.320 --> 00:38:25.920
someone has lost a parent, a grandma and nonna. You know,

754
00:38:26.079 --> 00:38:28.199
every now and again, something happens. You hear a song,

755
00:38:28.360 --> 00:38:30.199
you smell the food they used to cook, and it

756
00:38:30.239 --> 00:38:32.639
takes you back and you embody this. But what happens

757
00:38:32.760 --> 00:38:34.519
is you quickly brush it off and say, no, that's silly.

758
00:38:34.559 --> 00:38:38.400
They can't be anything to it. And that's that's why

759
00:38:38.480 --> 00:38:42.840
somatic embodiment is in is really interesting because we've disembodied

760
00:38:42.880 --> 00:38:45.480
ourselves a lot of us and you know, you've obviously

761
00:38:45.480 --> 00:38:47.880
got indigenous cultures, but some people who feel they don't

762
00:38:47.920 --> 00:38:50.960
have cultures sometimes are the most lost. And I'm saying, stop,

763
00:38:51.079 --> 00:38:52.840
get curious, get really curious.

764
00:38:53.320 --> 00:38:56.920
Yeah, you talk about rebellious curiosity. Can you what does

765
00:38:56.960 --> 00:39:01.880
that mean? Rebellious curiosity? I mean, I feel like it's

766
00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:02.199
a love.

767
00:39:03.440 --> 00:39:06.199
I came up with it because people can't understand what

768
00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:09.440
I was, who I am, what I do, and mean

769
00:39:09.480 --> 00:39:11.360
you just said it. I'm a mechanical engineer. I had

770
00:39:11.400 --> 00:39:16.199
a gym cafe doing documentaries because people are struggling to

771
00:39:16.199 --> 00:39:18.320
put me into a box. And so when it came

772
00:39:18.360 --> 00:39:19.960
to delivering keynote, say well, what does you have me

773
00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:22.400
talk about? She said, Well, she's a curious rebel. It's

774
00:39:22.440 --> 00:39:25.920
how can we do anything in everything we want to do?

775
00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:30.599
So rebellious curiosity honestly is about challenging status quo. But

776
00:39:30.679 --> 00:39:33.079
starting with yourself. We are always trying to start with

777
00:39:33.119 --> 00:39:37.960
somebody else. Just start with yourself. What narrative have you

778
00:39:38.159 --> 00:39:42.920
adopted inherited that you possibly could give the side eye

779
00:39:42.920 --> 00:39:47.119
to and get curious about it and just say, hold up,

780
00:39:47.239 --> 00:39:50.239
this doesn't sound right, and it's going to be uncomfortable.

781
00:39:50.679 --> 00:39:54.880
What did I read the patriarchs? I forget the author's name.

782
00:39:55.559 --> 00:39:57.480
She says something at the end of the book, a

783
00:39:57.599 --> 00:39:59.800
very long book. She gives the history. It's really imp

784
00:40:00.119 --> 00:40:03.360
sieve and says, this is going to be uncomfortable. Any change,

785
00:40:03.360 --> 00:40:06.440
and you know, not just about patriarchy, but any change

786
00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:09.519
is uncomfortable because you have to lift up every rock

787
00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:14.559
and see something again. Rebetlly's curiosity is uncomfortable. Might find

788
00:40:14.719 --> 00:40:17.199
some I don't know, stuff you don't want to see.

789
00:40:17.280 --> 00:40:20.840
But once again, liberation. That's what I think Rebetty's curiosity

790
00:40:20.880 --> 00:40:21.679
brings liberation.

791
00:40:22.760 --> 00:40:25.199
I was just listening to one of Glennan Doyle's podcasts.

792
00:40:25.320 --> 00:40:28.000
I shouldn't suggest, say Glennon Doyle, Glennon Abby and Amanda,

793
00:40:27.960 --> 00:40:29.599
because the three of them do that podcast.

794
00:40:29.639 --> 00:40:31.559
Now, you know.

795
00:40:31.760 --> 00:40:34.440
One of her favorite phrases is there's no such thing

796
00:40:34.480 --> 00:40:38.199
as one white liberation, like liberate yourself and liberate everybody

797
00:40:38.239 --> 00:40:41.840
around you, because people around you can't help but be changed.

798
00:40:41.920 --> 00:40:45.599
When you changed, you change the whole dynamic. Yeah.

799
00:40:46.000 --> 00:40:48.800
Yeah, and you don't. And if we do it really smartly,

800
00:40:48.840 --> 00:40:51.400
we don't actually have to exert it unto anybody. We

801
00:40:51.559 --> 00:40:54.840
just be yeah, and they see it. And I've definitely

802
00:40:54.880 --> 00:40:56.800
been able to I think been able to do that

803
00:40:56.840 --> 00:40:58.639
by being here in Australia. So when I go back

804
00:40:58.639 --> 00:41:02.639
to the UK, I think people just either just watch

805
00:41:02.719 --> 00:41:04.639
me or they just experienced it. I don't have to say,

806
00:41:04.639 --> 00:41:06.280
well you can do this, you can do that, They

807
00:41:06.400 --> 00:41:07.079
just witness it.

808
00:41:07.519 --> 00:41:10.320
Yeah, how long have you been in Australia By the way, it's.

809
00:41:10.199 --> 00:41:12.639
Coming up to ten years, so April twenty twenty four

810
00:41:12.760 --> 00:41:16.440
be ten years. Yeah, yeah, ten year years. So my

811
00:41:16.480 --> 00:41:20.119
son would have been seven months old when we got here. Wow,

812
00:41:20.679 --> 00:41:23.480
seven years old, yeah, and now sixteen and ten year old.

813
00:41:24.000 --> 00:41:26.119
We've only been here, not even eighteen months yet. We

814
00:41:26.239 --> 00:41:29.480
moved over July last year. So when you to the

815
00:41:29.599 --> 00:41:30.679
UK and it.

816
00:41:30.719 --> 00:41:33.400
Sounds well for first time ever living there.

817
00:41:33.480 --> 00:41:35.639
Yeah, yeah, yeah, So we've been here for a couple

818
00:41:35.679 --> 00:41:38.559
of days holiday, but no first time living here. And

819
00:41:38.599 --> 00:41:40.639
it was quite last minute. It was an opportunity that

820
00:41:40.679 --> 00:41:42.559
came up for my husband and it was a bit

821
00:41:42.599 --> 00:41:45.840
of a three months sort of notice period basically to

822
00:41:45.880 --> 00:41:48.360
pack up a house, sell the cars, rehome the cat,

823
00:41:48.400 --> 00:41:49.239
we brought the dogs.

824
00:41:49.559 --> 00:41:51.000
And I'm glad about.

825
00:41:50.719 --> 00:41:52.199
That because I always say that if I had too

826
00:41:52.280 --> 00:41:55.159
much time to overthink it, I might have said this

827
00:41:55.199 --> 00:41:56.239
is a bad idea.

828
00:41:56.320 --> 00:41:59.679
And I'm really glad that we're here. We're not here forever,

829
00:42:00.280 --> 00:42:02.400
but it's a great experience. Yeah.

830
00:42:02.480 --> 00:42:06.440
Experiential living is definitely something I've brought into this lifetime,

831
00:42:06.480 --> 00:42:09.280
which is probably why I've made quite a few mistakes.

832
00:42:10.119 --> 00:42:12.400
But you know, you're living, you learn. But I think

833
00:42:12.440 --> 00:42:15.400
experiential living is Yeah, I think it's the way most

834
00:42:15.400 --> 00:42:16.960
of us should try a bit more. If we if

835
00:42:16.960 --> 00:42:19.360
we became fear less of failing.

836
00:42:19.840 --> 00:42:22.679
It sounds like that's a really that's a big part

837
00:42:22.719 --> 00:42:24.960
of your story, and your message isn't it is too

838
00:42:25.679 --> 00:42:28.239
is to you don't have to tick all the boxes.

839
00:42:28.280 --> 00:42:31.039
And if you feel dissatisfied just ticking the boxer doing

840
00:42:31.039 --> 00:42:33.000
what everybody expects you to do, just be a bit

841
00:42:33.039 --> 00:42:36.079
curious about what are the what are the other options?

842
00:42:36.079 --> 00:42:38.960
Correct? And there will be there, There will be. Have

843
00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:40.199
you ever been on I mean, if you've been on

844
00:42:40.239 --> 00:42:41.679
a plane, you've got the privilege of being on a

845
00:42:41.679 --> 00:42:43.719
plane and you look down and you just think, wow,

846
00:42:44.039 --> 00:42:46.360
not that it's insignificant, but there's so much more I

847
00:42:46.400 --> 00:42:49.480
don't know, and I don't even understand. There's there's a

848
00:42:49.519 --> 00:42:53.239
lot we don't understand, and I usually find them experiences

849
00:42:53.280 --> 00:42:55.559
allow you to to find out a bit more of

850
00:42:55.599 --> 00:42:56.239
what you don't know.

851
00:42:56.440 --> 00:42:58.360
So Yeamy, you've done the work.

852
00:42:58.400 --> 00:43:02.400
You're doing the work on yourself and your own trauma.

853
00:43:02.440 --> 00:43:06.000
But clearly you feel like there is a greater mission here,

854
00:43:06.119 --> 00:43:09.559
which is to help other people or maybe open other

855
00:43:09.599 --> 00:43:13.400
people's eyes to the possibility that maybe they might want

856
00:43:13.440 --> 00:43:16.480
to clean up some of their own Why.

857
00:43:17.119 --> 00:43:21.400
I see how you say that delicately, But yes, people

858
00:43:21.440 --> 00:43:22.199
have a look at the work.

859
00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:25.599
So why is it important?

860
00:43:25.599 --> 00:43:29.320
Why do you believe it's so important for everybody to

861
00:43:29.400 --> 00:43:31.079
do their to do their work?

862
00:43:31.840 --> 00:43:34.239
Well, I just think we're going to put ourselves into

863
00:43:34.519 --> 00:43:38.000
some really uncomfortable form of extinction. I always talk about

864
00:43:38.039 --> 00:43:40.239
David Attenborn. He talks about the planet and I love

865
00:43:40.280 --> 00:43:42.079
his shows, and you know, I've kind of looked at

866
00:43:42.079 --> 00:43:44.039
the history. In the last kind of like decade, he

867
00:43:44.119 --> 00:43:47.599
started to make reference to the humans and the role

868
00:43:47.679 --> 00:43:50.480
they play. I think we're asking sick people to look

869
00:43:50.519 --> 00:43:54.519
after a planet, and I include myself in that. I

870
00:43:54.519 --> 00:43:56.360
continue to do the work. I do not think I'm

871
00:43:56.400 --> 00:43:59.920
any better than anyone else, but we're asking people who

872
00:44:00.119 --> 00:44:02.760
have immense traumas. If you just look at the word,

873
00:44:02.840 --> 00:44:05.599
I mean the world, you know, even I vicaire is trauma,

874
00:44:05.599 --> 00:44:07.800
which I know is relatively new in terms of the

875
00:44:07.920 --> 00:44:11.000
language of me ever hearing it. It's something that's now

876
00:44:11.039 --> 00:44:13.440
being picked up, but to be honest, was probably always there.

877
00:44:13.440 --> 00:44:16.480
It's just PS academias decided to give it a voice.

878
00:44:18.000 --> 00:44:19.840
We're going to need to find a way. Like I

879
00:44:19.920 --> 00:44:23.719
went to the United Nations earlier this year and just

880
00:44:23.760 --> 00:44:26.599
looking at the sustainable goals and there's one unsustainability, and

881
00:44:27.239 --> 00:44:30.440
I think humans need to be in there, sustainability of humanity.

882
00:44:31.039 --> 00:44:34.079
We have so many things around the world, and yes

883
00:44:34.159 --> 00:44:39.840
we have privileges and luxuries, but you're asking unwell people

884
00:44:39.920 --> 00:44:43.920
to make major decisions, and this has to be I mean,

885
00:44:44.039 --> 00:44:47.039
every leader should be going through some sort of initiation

886
00:44:47.519 --> 00:44:50.079
where they're cleaning their trauma so that what happened to

887
00:44:50.119 --> 00:44:52.920
them as a baby or their mother, or their wife

888
00:44:53.039 --> 00:44:55.599
or their husband isn't the same way they then treat

889
00:44:55.679 --> 00:44:58.559
all their members of staff, or how they make decisions

890
00:44:58.599 --> 00:45:02.000
on you know, whether women should have access or autonomy

891
00:45:02.000 --> 00:45:05.519
of their bodies. You know, it's you know, I feel

892
00:45:05.559 --> 00:45:09.400
like I'm rambling, but it just it's really clear to

893
00:45:09.480 --> 00:45:12.280
me that this has to be a priority. It has

894
00:45:12.360 --> 00:45:14.800
to be one of the sustainable goals. It has to

895
00:45:14.840 --> 00:45:17.039
be language we use. There's no point just waiting for

896
00:45:17.280 --> 00:45:21.320
all the different fires. It is a fire. It needs

897
00:45:21.360 --> 00:45:25.559
to be prioritized. So my invitation is to sustain humanity

898
00:45:25.599 --> 00:45:28.480
because we're the custodians of the planet and nobody's coming

899
00:45:28.519 --> 00:45:29.039
to save us.

900
00:45:29.559 --> 00:45:31.519
Yeah, no, no, I couldn't agree more.

901
00:45:31.639 --> 00:45:32.480
And you're so right.

902
00:45:32.599 --> 00:45:34.280
I look around at some of the world leaders, the

903
00:45:35.519 --> 00:45:40.719
deeply troubled, deeply troubled people, Yeah, making the rules and

904
00:45:40.760 --> 00:45:45.719
making the decisions that impact all of us. Yeah, and

905
00:45:45.800 --> 00:45:46.320
the planet.

906
00:45:46.840 --> 00:45:49.079
Yeah. Terrifying, Actually it is.

907
00:45:49.239 --> 00:45:51.960
It is, I mean terrifying for us in this the

908
00:45:52.039 --> 00:45:54.440
generation we're in, but then terrifying for the kids we're

909
00:45:54.480 --> 00:45:57.079
leaving behind. Like, if you think leaving the house and

910
00:45:57.920 --> 00:46:00.960
whatever whatever for your kids, you should really be preparing

911
00:46:00.960 --> 00:46:03.639
them for different cycles and even if it's repetitive going around,

912
00:46:03.800 --> 00:46:06.360
give them the tools to deal with it, to deal

913
00:46:06.400 --> 00:46:08.480
with the stuff that is likely to continue to happen

914
00:46:08.480 --> 00:46:10.960
because history leaves clues. But I wanted to go back

915
00:46:10.960 --> 00:46:14.280
to this point of I'm all for equality on all levels,

916
00:46:14.559 --> 00:46:17.079
but no point having equality if we're just going to

917
00:46:17.159 --> 00:46:20.920
have people blowing their dirty trauma through, Like I really

918
00:46:21.000 --> 00:46:23.400
want to challenge that. Yes, let's have more women, Yes

919
00:46:23.480 --> 00:46:26.760
let's have more bipop, more marginalized groups voices, But if

920
00:46:26.800 --> 00:46:28.960
you haven't cleaned your trauma, you're coming back to do

921
00:46:29.039 --> 00:46:32.280
the same shit that has been done for decades and centuries.

922
00:46:32.960 --> 00:46:35.840
Make it make sense, That's what I'm saying, And it's

923
00:46:35.840 --> 00:46:37.119
got to be cleaning our trauma.

924
00:46:37.840 --> 00:46:41.920
Yeah, I think that's a really really important, important message

925
00:46:41.920 --> 00:46:46.199
and a powerful mission. Yeah me, a fully fully support

926
00:46:46.840 --> 00:46:49.960
fully support that. I think you see, you know, all

927
00:46:50.000 --> 00:46:53.920
around you see, just on a micro level, just on

928
00:46:53.960 --> 00:46:57.599
social media, you know, just looking at people's responses to post,

929
00:46:57.679 --> 00:47:03.039
what people's reactions. Just the lack of I'm probably getting

930
00:47:03.039 --> 00:47:04.719
a my high horse now, but you know, just the

931
00:47:04.840 --> 00:47:09.440
lack of consciousness, the lack of self awareness and the

932
00:47:09.599 --> 00:47:13.440
inability to self monitor and self.

933
00:47:13.360 --> 00:47:14.800
Regular regulate too.

934
00:47:15.159 --> 00:47:18.480
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And so therefore I'm just blasting projecting

935
00:47:18.519 --> 00:47:23.360
everything all over everybody with just abandoned like it's it

936
00:47:23.440 --> 00:47:26.440
is just so damaging.

937
00:47:26.000 --> 00:47:30.280
It's not sustainable. But then I say that, thinking, but yeah, me,

938
00:47:30.320 --> 00:47:32.199
are you in your echo chamber? Because I bet you

939
00:47:32.199 --> 00:47:34.960
there's a generation somewhere still alive saying, oh, look at

940
00:47:35.000 --> 00:47:37.679
these fools. If only they knew that this is what

941
00:47:37.760 --> 00:47:40.599
happened back then, and they're making noise. Just sit like

942
00:47:41.440 --> 00:47:42.960
you know. That's why sometimes I just want to go

943
00:47:43.000 --> 00:47:45.639
get like tribes, like I want to do documentaries like

944
00:47:45.719 --> 00:47:47.760
David Attenborough, but go to different parts of the world

945
00:47:48.079 --> 00:47:51.039
and seek the wisdom of elders, some who just say,

946
00:47:51.039 --> 00:47:53.280
oh no, we just wait, this is cycle what happens

947
00:47:53.280 --> 00:47:56.760
if we put all this knowledge together on these distressing events.

948
00:47:57.239 --> 00:48:00.159
You know, some people think given birth is traumatic. What

949
00:48:00.199 --> 00:48:03.360
a different way to label the meaning of trauma and

950
00:48:03.400 --> 00:48:06.280
therefore potentially how we could heal it or transform it.

951
00:48:07.519 --> 00:48:10.119
That there's there's wisdom. I just don't think. I still

952
00:48:10.159 --> 00:48:12.800
think we're too fragmented to get our shit together and

953
00:48:12.840 --> 00:48:15.679
actually try to start getting some of the solutions by

954
00:48:15.719 --> 00:48:17.320
actually speaking to each other.

955
00:48:17.719 --> 00:48:21.199
I did want to ask you because you're studying trauma

956
00:48:21.480 --> 00:48:25.400
transformation through a decolonizing lens, and just would like you

957
00:48:25.519 --> 00:48:29.480
to share what what does it mean to decolonize trauma?

958
00:48:29.599 --> 00:48:32.159
One of the definitions I like the most is to

959
00:48:32.239 --> 00:48:36.039
delink ourselves from a dominant narrative. You know, Chimamanda Diya

960
00:48:36.239 --> 00:48:38.519
did this ted talk ages ago, the danger of the

961
00:48:38.599 --> 00:48:42.880
single story. You know, there's usually one dominant story that runs,

962
00:48:42.920 --> 00:48:45.480
and I know more recently the focus has been on

963
00:48:46.199 --> 00:48:49.159
men and and that is the case for making decisions,

964
00:48:49.280 --> 00:48:52.800
especially at a world scale. It goes, it goes beyond that.

965
00:48:53.320 --> 00:48:58.960
To decolonize is to reindigenize. Sorry there was there was

966
00:48:58.960 --> 00:49:02.880
an uncomfortable face because I'm still dealing with that. It's

967
00:49:02.920 --> 00:49:06.199
to reindigenize and The reason why I get uncomfortable saying

968
00:49:06.239 --> 00:49:09.360
is because sometimes that can automatically create this divide of well,

969
00:49:09.400 --> 00:49:11.599
I'm not indigenous, so then what can I do? And

970
00:49:12.079 --> 00:49:14.840
part of my voice to this conversation is, actually we

971
00:49:15.360 --> 00:49:20.159
need everybody. You know, some of us might need to

972
00:49:20.239 --> 00:49:21.800
go back and look into the history of where we've

973
00:49:21.840 --> 00:49:23.519
come from. And I mean, what do you do if

974
00:49:23.559 --> 00:49:26.360
you are in a family that someone in there has

975
00:49:26.480 --> 00:49:31.880
been the perpetrator, the abuser, the molester. Like part of

976
00:49:31.960 --> 00:49:34.199
cleaning trauma is figuring out, well, who am I and

977
00:49:34.280 --> 00:49:36.039
what do I become from being part of that?

978
00:49:36.559 --> 00:49:36.880
I don't know.

979
00:49:36.960 --> 00:49:38.400
You could be part of a family that was part

980
00:49:38.400 --> 00:49:42.559
of the colonizer. You can still decolonize by not continuing

981
00:49:42.639 --> 00:49:46.559
in the practices, by not using the blueprint that appears

982
00:49:46.599 --> 00:49:50.000
to have been used to dominate takeover power over as

983
00:49:50.039 --> 00:49:54.000
opposed to power with. So to decolonize has so many layers,

984
00:49:54.039 --> 00:49:56.960
but simply is to delink from the dominant narrative that

985
00:49:57.000 --> 00:49:59.519
there's only one way to do things and to be

986
00:50:00.239 --> 00:50:04.079
and that will require curiosity in investigating what else is there?

987
00:50:04.559 --> 00:50:07.639
For instance, you know, people talk about intergeneration or trauma

988
00:50:07.719 --> 00:50:12.440
going about fourteen generations. What about that wisdom into generational wisdom.

989
00:50:12.639 --> 00:50:14.079
How are we going to leave all of that good

990
00:50:14.159 --> 00:50:19.400
juice behind? So decolonizing is to really step down from

991
00:50:20.320 --> 00:50:23.119
what I think has currently built all the systems in

992
00:50:23.199 --> 00:50:25.800
the world, and like I said, it will be uncomfortable

993
00:50:25.840 --> 00:50:28.039
but be extremely liberating for us and for those we

994
00:50:28.199 --> 00:50:28.719
leave behind.

995
00:50:29.719 --> 00:50:33.079
We've covered a lot of ground in this conversation. I'm

996
00:50:33.119 --> 00:50:35.719
just wondering if there is one last message that you

997
00:50:35.719 --> 00:50:39.159
would like to leave with listeners as they go forward

998
00:50:39.199 --> 00:50:39.599
from here.

999
00:50:40.320 --> 00:50:41.920
I think one thing I will probably want to share

1000
00:50:41.960 --> 00:50:44.920
from going crappy to happy is to give yourself grace.

1001
00:50:45.199 --> 00:50:47.800
When I deliver keynotes or any workshops, I usually have

1002
00:50:47.880 --> 00:50:50.440
a small print and I ask people for grace. I

1003
00:50:50.559 --> 00:50:52.840
tell them that in all the learning, I'm trying to

1004
00:50:52.880 --> 00:50:55.480
do a lot of unlearning. And what I've realized is

1005
00:50:55.559 --> 00:50:57.880
that sometimes I can be exclusive in my language, in

1006
00:50:57.960 --> 00:51:00.119
my vocabulary, or even the way I show up. And

1007
00:51:00.239 --> 00:51:02.159
to give me grace is to assume that I do

1008
00:51:02.280 --> 00:51:05.679
not intend to harm you, to just from human to

1009
00:51:05.840 --> 00:51:09.000
human to give me that. So I would love to

1010
00:51:09.079 --> 00:51:13.039
share with people to give yourself grace and where you

1011
00:51:13.159 --> 00:51:16.440
can give other people grace. But I also invite you

1012
00:51:16.639 --> 00:51:19.159
to not just do the work, but be the work.

1013
00:51:19.639 --> 00:51:21.800
And if you don't even know where to start, just

1014
00:51:21.880 --> 00:51:25.039
start with acknowledgment. If your mind doesn't tell you, your

1015
00:51:25.079 --> 00:51:28.239
body will tell you, and just get curious. But grace

1016
00:51:28.639 --> 00:51:33.239
some love, more grace, more grace, and then to more love.

1017
00:51:34.239 --> 00:51:35.800
Perfect. I love that.

1018
00:51:36.400 --> 00:51:39.840
Yeah, Mey, thank you so much for having this conversation

1019
00:51:39.960 --> 00:51:43.440
with me today. I have really enjoyed it, and I

1020
00:51:43.519 --> 00:51:45.000
appreciate all the work that you do and I can't

1021
00:51:45.039 --> 00:51:45.960
wait to see what you do next.

1022
00:51:46.159 --> 00:51:47.960
Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you so much

1023
00:51:48.000 --> 00:51:50.559
for having me. Yeah, it's been a joy. I feel

1024
00:51:50.559 --> 00:51:52.400
we should have more conversations regardless.

1025
00:51:53.159 --> 00:51:55.039
I feel like we should. I feel like we should.

1026
00:51:55.320 --> 00:51:56.800
I say this at the end of as you. I've

1027
00:51:56.840 --> 00:51:58.480
said it at the end of a few podcasts lately.

1028
00:51:58.559 --> 00:52:01.079
Can I get back together? Can we do this again?

1029
00:52:06.559 --> 00:52:08.960
You can find out more about Yemmy and her work

1030
00:52:09.199 --> 00:52:12.639
at yemipenn dot com. Her book is called Did You

1031
00:52:12.679 --> 00:52:15.400
Get the Memo, and her first documentary was called Did

1032
00:52:15.480 --> 00:52:18.360
I Choose My Trauma? Obviously, you can catch up with

1033
00:52:18.440 --> 00:52:21.440
me my website iscast done dot com. Thanks so much

1034
00:52:21.480 --> 00:52:23.599
for being here, and as always, I cannot wait to

1035
00:52:23.679 --> 00:52:26.000
catch you on the next episode of Crappy to Happy.