May 1, 2023

Creating healthy digital boundaries with Dr Kristy Goodwin

Creating healthy digital boundaries with Dr Kristy Goodwin
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Creating healthy digital boundaries with Dr Kristy Goodwin
Creating healthy digital boundaries with Dr Kristy Goodwin
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Season 9 Psychology & Neuroscience Women's Health And Wellbeing

Today, Cass is joined by Dr Kristy Goodwin. Dr Kristy is a Digital wellbeing & productivity researcher, consultant, speaker and author. Her latest book is called Dear Digital, We Need to Talk. It’s a guilt free guide to taming your tech habits and thriving in a digital world.There’s no doubt the pandemic has had some major impacts on our life as we know it, and perhaps none more profound than our reliance on digital to live, connect and work. This almost over reliance has left us with a pretty heavy 'digital hangover', as Kristy calls it. 
In this episode Dr Kristy is here to share some really practical and very realistic strategies to take back control of technology use and avoid burnout.
You can grab a copy of Dr Kristy's book here and you'll find her on instagram here.
Connect with Cass:www.crappytohappypod.comhello@crappytohappypod.com 
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Transcript
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A listener production.

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Today I am joined by doctor Christy Goodwin. As you know,

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doctor Christy is a digital wellbeing and productivity researcher, consultant,

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speaker and author.

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Her latest book is called Dear Digital, We Need to Talk.

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It's a guilt free guide to taming your tech habits

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and thriving in a digital world. There is no doubt

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that the pandemic has had major impacts on our life

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as we know it, and perhaps none more profound than

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our reliance on digital to live, connect and work. This

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almost over reliance has left us with a pretty heavy

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digital hangover, as Christie calls it. So today doctor Christy

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is here to share some really practical and realistic strategies

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That's what I love about her, to take back control

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of technology use and avoid digital burnout. Here is my

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conversation with Christy. Doctor Christy Goodwin, thank you for coming

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back for a second episode of Crappy the Happy.

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Thank you for having me back. It's a joy you.

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Have joined the elite group of repeat guests here on

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the show. So honored position to be in. But the

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reason I was so excited to talk to you, Christie,

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is because obviously your area of expertise is digital wellbeing,

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and I'm really interested to better understand the impact that

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the pandemic has had on our use of technology and

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the impact that that is having on our wellbeing. We're

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all forced home and to work from home and hybrid

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and zoom this and zoom bloody everything, you know, rather

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than doing stuff face to face. So what can you

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tell us about the impact that the pandemic has had.

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Look, I think we were certainly tethered two technology before

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the pandemic. It would be naive to think we sort

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of lived in this digital utopia where we had all

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our tech habits under control and you know, were really

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disciplined with our tech. I think we could acknowledge that

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we really were digitally dependent before the pandemic. But as

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you suggested, the pandemic most certainly accelerated amplified our digital reliance.

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It became our conduit for connection. The online world was

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our conduit for work. For leisure. Research tells us that

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during the height of the pandemic, the average adult was

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spending around thirteen point two eight hours a day on screens.

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And the harsh reality is that even though it's huge,

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a huge displacement effect and it's having you know, that

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amount of time is having a significant impact on everything

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from our vision, to our muscular skeletal health, to our

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rates of stress and exhaustion and overwhelm, to our levels

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of focus and productivity. But the harsh reality is that

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even though and I'm so careful about saying, you know,

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the pandemic has ended, but as we're sort of finding

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our new ways of whatever new normal looks like, I

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think what's happened is that we've got a bit of

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a digital hangover. Many of the digital habits that sort

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of crept into our lives have often remained. And I

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think that our tech habits, both professionally and personally. And

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let's face it, those boundaries have become obliterated if they

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ever existed. But our tech habits are really having a

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profound impact on all of us, often in ways that

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we don't even recognize.

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You make a really good point there about the boundaries

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being obliterated, and again, I think we all know that

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we had issues.

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With boundaries before.

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A lot of us are really celebrating that we don't

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have to go into the office anymore. We've realized that

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we can work from home. We've got these hybrid arrangements.

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But there's a downside of that, isn't there In terms

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of that boundary management.

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Yes, we feel like we are always on and the

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research is actually telling us that in many instances we are,

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especially if you tend to be a knowledge worker. So

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a knowledge worker is someone who the bulk of their

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work involves them being on a desktop or laptop computer.

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And Microsoft published a study in twenty twenty two and

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they're calling it the triple productivity hump day. Now, before

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the pandemic, we used to see two humps in productivity,

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one at around coffee a clock, you know, around ten

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o'clock in the morning, and one around biscuit o'clock around

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three point thirty in the afternoon. We are now seeing

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a third hump in like a spike in productivity, and

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it's happening between ten pm and eleven pm at night.

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And so we know that around twenty eight percent of

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people are working after hours. Now we can look at

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this two ways. A lot of people are saying, look,

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this is a sign that we have more flexible work arrangements.

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People are choosing perhaps to look after family members, you know,

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where they're aged, aging parents or children. In the early

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hours of the evening and they're choosing to work late

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at night. But the more likely scenario, and the research

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is certainly in its infancy corroborating this, is that it's

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actually a marker or a red flag for burnout people

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who feel like they're constantly needing to be working. And

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one of the justifications that people often say, I'm working

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late in the evening because my day is now peppered

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with digital distractions, you know, kings of teams, chants, slack messages, emails,

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going from virtual meeting to virtual or hybrid meeting. But

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I don't get any time to do deep focused work.

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So we're doing that at ten or eleven at night,

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and it's really not sustainable and having a huge impact.

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I've been doing a little bit of work over here

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in the UK. I've was invited to do some work

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around wellbeing and stress management for a company over here

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in Amsterdam, and as part of that, I was asked

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to talk to somebody about possibly doing some executive coaching

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with this particular leader who was having some issues. And

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this was just a couple of weeks ago, and I

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noticed that in trying to set up a meeting with

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this person, the emails were coming to me at midnight

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and at five am. And I didn't end up working

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with her, but in speaking to the management I guess

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about it. I was like, what is going on here?

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Like this is an issue, Like whoever coaches this person,

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you know, needs to have some sense that this is

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what's going on. Because I didn't even work with her,

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but that was my experience. I was like waking up

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in the morning and getting an email from her at

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twelve thirty and this is a working mother with young children.

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And I did point it out to her. Actually, I said, like,

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what is going on here?

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And she said, well, that's when I get my work done,

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Like that's and she felt kind of that's what she

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had to do to cope. So what you're saying is

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that is more common than not, by the sound of.

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Us, sadly, yeah, And I call it digital PRESENTEESM So

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in part, I think a lot of people have thought

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that we've got this extra flexibility. So I'm doing a

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lot of work with organizations at the moment to help

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them articulate. And it's not a policy, but we articulate

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or co construct what I'm colloquially referring to as their

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digital guardrails. What are the team agreements that you will

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have around how technology is going to use. So, for example,

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we talk about after ours communications because many people feel

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like they just psychologically are unable to detach from their

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work and they can't. You know, when your boss is

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emailing you at three o'clock on a Saturday afternoon, when

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your colleagues are pinging you on teams at eleven o'clock

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at night and you're the only one in your team

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not responding, it causes us to create this hyper responsive

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culture that is really detrimental not only to our well

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being but also our productivity. The other thing that I

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think is happening again because we've taken ourselves out of

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the office. You know, we used to have sort of

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very i'm going to say outdated, but sort of metrics

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of our productivity. You know, if you came into the

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office early and you were seen to be, you know,

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the last one leaving and switching off the lights at night,

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there were sort of some tangible measures of what I

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call perceived productivity. But now with distributed teams, with people

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working remotely and sometimes in the office, what I think

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has happened is we've created something called I'm referring to

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as digital presenteeism, and we want to be seen from

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an optics perspective, to be responsive. So we're replying to

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the emails or the team's chats at all hours of

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the day. And this, I think is just I actually

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think this is the biggest threat to our new ways

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of working if we are constantly on and using technology

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in ways that are completely unhealthy.

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In your new book, Dear Digital, we need to talk,

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you gave the example of we'll get to the stuff

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that you've got in the book because it's so good.

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But you gave the example of if you have your

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phone nearby, you can be tempted to wake up it,

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if you wake up at two or three in the

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morning or something.

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You could be tempted to just check to see if

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you've got a response.

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And I felt so attacked because, let me tell you,

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because I have moved to the I have moved to

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the UK, and obviously I'm talking to you now.

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You're in Australia and I still do work in Australia.

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I'm in this upside down world where by the time

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I get up in the morning and look at my emails,

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the team in Australia has left for the day, so

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I need to send emails in the evening for them

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to get So this is just the reality of working

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on the other side of the world. But I will

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do that if something's urgent and I wake up at

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two in the morning, I know it's still work time

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in Australia, so I'll quickly check so that I can

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send somebody a reply. And I know it's a problem,

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but it's very tempting to do.

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It is, especially if it's nestled beside your bed. No,

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and but we all I think that's really important to acknowledge. Yeah,

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And also even if you didn't pick it up, even

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if you resisted the urge to reply to the email,

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even if we just see our phones or our tablets

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or laptops near our sleeping space, it can be enough

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of a psychological trigger for us to just start to

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ruminate and think, you know, did that tricky client reply

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to that email? Has my colleagues sent that DM that

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I need to respond to, And so it can really

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have a significant impact on our sleep and again our wellbeing.

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So where we can trying to keep it out of

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our rooms. You know that old saying our Mum used

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to say, you know, out of sight, out of mind

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really can make a difference.

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It was a good thing for me to realize because

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it has prompted me to start keeping my phone out

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of my room. In fact, I made a note like

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by an old school alarm clock so that I don't

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have to keep my phone beside my bag, because that's

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one of the strategies, isn't.

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It It is? And I know a lot of people

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resist this strategy. So another alternative if you just can't

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break up with your phone, if the idea of going

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back to an old fashioned illuminated alarm clock just will

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not work for you, my other golden rule is that

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if your phone has to come into your room, there's

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no other alternative for alarm clock. My two golden rules

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with your phone is that it must be on silent

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or do not disturb mode, and it also has to

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be put out of your line of sight. So put

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a book over the top, put a magazine over a

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poppet in a drawer so you can't see it again.

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Because our brain is making cognitive associations all the time

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we scan the environment. In fact, our brain's processing around

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eleven million bits of sensory data. Every second, ten million

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of those come through our eyes, So just seeing the

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phone can be that sense for us to start thinking

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about it. So on silent, we know that in Australia

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of one in five adults are woken up each night

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because of alerts and notifications, huge huge impact on our sleep.

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Yeah, that happens to me too, So good reason to

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get the phone out of the bedroom. I'm just thinking,

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Yeah that actually that happens to me.

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Christy.

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In the new book, you said some really interesting stuff

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that I was not aware of about the impact on

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our physiology. You use the term our human operating system,

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which I love. You should trademark that if you came

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up with it, a human operating system, and how technology

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compromises it, like how technology basically undermines our natural biology.

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Before we get into the details of that, just some

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really specific examples you gave were things like the closeness

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of a zoom call, like how many times we will

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sigh in all of this science stuff that I wasn't

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aware of. Can you talk us through some of the

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impact that the technology has on our physiology?

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Yes, so some of the ways that we're often not

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aware of. I think two things have happened. I think

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our tech habits have eroded some of the biological buffers

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that we used to have naturally be baked into our

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days that helped us to manage our stress and our focus.

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We used to sleep more, We used to be more

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physically active, We used to get way more sunlight, more

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time with human connection. Even the way that we breathe

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has been changed by our screens. As humans, we are

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designed biologically to sigh roughly every five minutes. It's a

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built in biological mechanism that helps us regulate our stress response.

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We do it while we're awake and we're unaware that

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we're doing it, and we should do that roughly every

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five minutes. But when we are looking at a screen,

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be that a laptop, a desktop, or our phones, our

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sigh rate falls off the cliff. What does this tell us?

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We're often breathing in a really shallow way and we've

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activated our sympathetic nervous system, so we're often just stressing

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ourselves just by using the technology in the first place.

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Another way that it affecting our biology is that we

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have a really narrow gaze, be that whether we're looking

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at our laptop or our desktop or our phones. Our

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eyes are on a very narrow surface area. Now, as humans,

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we are biologically designed again to look at things in

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the distance. We are designed to look at the animal

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or off in the distance, or the sun rising or

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a ball flying towards us. But again, when we have

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a very narrow gaze, it sends us trigger to our

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brain that we're in a heightened stress state, that something

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is potentially wrong. So that's the first thing that's happened.

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We've eroded some of those biological buffers. The second thing

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that I think has happened at the same time is

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that we've introduced little micro stresses into our days now,

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things like alerts, notifications, video calls, as you suggested, working

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for long stretches without a break, all of these little

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things on their own would be relatively harmless. But what's

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happening is they're accumulating in our days. You know, we

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go from one virtual meeting to the next, with our phone,

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pinging with emails, you know, permeating our days. And for example,

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as you said, video calls we know from brain scans

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actually cause our brain to release cortisol, like we're in

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a stress state. One of the reasons. There's a whole

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lot of work being done into why why do we

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get zoom fatigue or zoom doom as they're sometimes calling it.

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And one of the really fascinating reasons is because we

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usually sit around sixty centimeters away from our screen. Now,

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sixty centimeters is what anthropologists call at intimate social distance.

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Sixty centimeters is reserved for love, making, cuddling, comforting, wrestling,

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or pretty much the same thing if you start to

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think about it. But all of a sudden, we're sixty

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centimeters away from a colleague or a potential client, and

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so it's really jarring and taxing for our brain. So

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all of these things are happening and we're often unaware

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that they're having such a profound impact on us.

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Yeah, that stuff I found so interesting, and I think

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particularly as a psychologist, you know, often talk to people

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about how you might not even realize that you're not

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breathing or that you're breathing too rapidly, but your physiology

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knows that you're breathing too rapidly, and then it sends

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a signal to your brain. Your brain says you're in danger.

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Up the cortisol and this is all happening outside your

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conscious awareness.

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So what you're talking.

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About is exactly that the narrow focus. They're not breathing

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without even being consciously aware. We're putting ourselves into this

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heightened stress state, which has so many impacts on our

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physical health. We know that sleep and breathing properly and

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all of those things are so essential for our overall wellbeing,

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every aspect of our well being. It's basically making ourselves sick.

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I think many of us at the moment are what

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I call ousted. So I think we're overwhelmed, we're under

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the pump, We're stressed, we're time poor, exhausted and distracted.

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And I think the reason why is because we're using

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our devices, be they professionally or personally, in ways that

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are completely incongruent with, as you mentioned before, our human

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operating system. As humans, we have some biological constraints. I

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sometimes say, you know, our HS is our biological blueprint.

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We cannot outperform our biology. And the harsh reality is

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that we're using technology in ways that are completely out

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of alignment with how we are biologically and neurobiologically designed

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as humans. And that's why I think we're seeing it globally.

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It is certainly an issue pronounced in Australia at the moment,

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but rates of stress, exhaustion and burnout are at all

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time highs. And I think one of the reasons, it's

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not the only reason, but one of the most significant

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contributing factors, is most certainly our tech habits.

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Yeah, you made the point.

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Also, you just reminded me that social connection is so

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important for our health and wellbeing. I mean, I know,

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I wrote a whole book about it, but online interaction

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cannot replicate the physiological effect of face to face interaction.

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All of that oxytocin and all of the hormonal changes

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and the things that happen in our body when we

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are face to face with somebody don't happen when we're

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looking at somebody through a screen or talking to somebody

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through a screen. I think people don't realize some of

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this stuff. I mean, I probably never even thought about

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it myself, but it's really important.

335
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It is, and we, as you said, we just can't

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replicate face to face connection online yet. And a lot

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of people are saying, you know, the metaverse and AI

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will soon see that that change. I don't know if

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we will, And I don't think there's any research available

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at the moment that tells us that we know from

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the available research that text based communications, be that a

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you know, WhatsApp message or a text message or a

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DM will not create, as you said, oxytocin, that social

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bonding hormone in our brain like we get when we

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meet in real time. And I think an experience often

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we can relate to is that this is why. For

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you know, there are a host of reasons why we

348
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found lockdowns really hard, but lockdowns were hard because we

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didn't get that face to face, in person connection with others. Yes,

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we're all chatting with our friends and on family zoom

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calls and doing all the other digital replicas, but they

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are absolutely no substitute for face to face connection.

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I hope that you're enjoying this conversation and realizing the

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benefits of positivity in your own life. If you are

355
00:18:27.519 --> 00:18:30.200
enjoying the show, please be sure to like and subscribe

356
00:18:30.240 --> 00:18:32.559
so that you get notified when you apps drop and

357
00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:35.079
head on over to Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen

358
00:18:35.160 --> 00:18:43.839
and leave us a rating and review. The thing I

359
00:18:43.880 --> 00:18:46.799
love most about you, Christy, apart from all your really

360
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cool little terms and slogans, which really helped to remember

361
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some of these important points. But it is that you

362
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are very realistic and very pragmatic in terms of technology

363
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is here to day. We're not getting rid of it.

364
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We're not doing a digital detox, digital minimalism like it

365
00:19:05.799 --> 00:19:11.240
doesn't work for people. What you instead present are realistic

366
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solutions to people, and that is what you've outlined in

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your newest book. This is why I love your work

368
00:19:16.839 --> 00:19:21.079
so much. I love simple, practical, workable. And so you

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00:19:21.119 --> 00:19:25.960
have come up with four pillars of digital peak performance,

370
00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:29.480
basically four things that we need to consider in order

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00:19:29.599 --> 00:19:31.759
to be able to use our technology in a way

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that is healthy.

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Can you talk us through what they are?

374
00:19:36.039 --> 00:19:38.519
Sure? So, I think in order for us to thrive

375
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in this digital world, we have to learn to live

376
00:19:40.799 --> 00:19:43.759
with technology, but to do some ways that is aligned

377
00:19:43.799 --> 00:19:46.920
with our human operating system. So the first pillar is

378
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all around establishing digital borders and boundaries. You know, where

379
00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:52.519
are your no go tech zones? What places and spaces

380
00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:54.440
will you use it? Are you going to have a

381
00:19:54.480 --> 00:19:57.279
digital curfew? Are you going to have a digital depot

382
00:19:57.440 --> 00:19:59.680
like a landing zone in your house where devices might

383
00:19:59.720 --> 00:20:02.640
go it night? So that's the first pillar. The second

384
00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:06.640
pillar I call adopting neuroproductivity tactics, and the idea is

385
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that we have to start to work in ways that

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match how we are designed to work as humans, but

387
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to do so in this digital landscape. So, you know,

388
00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:18.319
how do we manage virtual meetings, how do we manage

389
00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:21.079
out and structure the cadence of our workday now that

390
00:20:21.119 --> 00:20:25.160
we've often got more flexibility around when we work. The

391
00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:28.640
third pillar is all around disabling digital distractions. We know

392
00:20:28.880 --> 00:20:33.039
that being distracted puts a huge dent in our productivity,

393
00:20:33.079 --> 00:20:35.960
So it's all about taking back control of our focus

394
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or what I call in our book our FQ, our

395
00:20:38.519 --> 00:20:41.720
focus quotient. And then the final pillar, the fourth pillar,

396
00:20:41.759 --> 00:20:44.799
I should say I think is probably the most important,

397
00:20:44.880 --> 00:20:47.319
but I'm also going to acknowledge it's the hardest one

398
00:20:47.359 --> 00:20:51.160
to achieve, and that is unplugging, you know, engaging in

399
00:20:51.200 --> 00:20:55.519
digital disconnections, so not a detox, but actually intentionally carving

400
00:20:55.519 --> 00:20:57.000
out time where you switch off.

401
00:20:57.640 --> 00:21:01.559
Yeah, as it okay if we just unpack those in order,

402
00:21:01.559 --> 00:21:05.039
because I think this is people really want this kind

403
00:21:05.039 --> 00:21:06.960
of information and these tips because we're all out of

404
00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:09.799
control with our technology. We all know that we're struggling,

405
00:21:09.799 --> 00:21:12.079
but we find it hard to find a solution. So

406
00:21:12.519 --> 00:21:15.920
digital borders and boundaries. You mentioned before the term guardrails.

407
00:21:15.960 --> 00:21:18.599
Can you talk us through what you mean when you

408
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talk about putting guardrails in place for our technology?

409
00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:23.920
Sure? So I think we need to do this at

410
00:21:23.960 --> 00:21:27.559
an individual level, and something I'm also challenging organizations to

411
00:21:27.599 --> 00:21:30.599
do is to establish their team's guardrails. I have a

412
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hunch that we will soon see legislation, and not just

413
00:21:34.279 --> 00:21:36.920
in Australia but internationally we're already starting to see it

414
00:21:37.279 --> 00:21:41.279
around the right to disconnect. So I think individuals need

415
00:21:41.319 --> 00:21:43.920
to come up with where are the places and spaces

416
00:21:43.920 --> 00:21:46.279
where devices will go? When will you switch them off?

417
00:21:46.319 --> 00:21:49.440
Where will you go when they're switched off? Will you

418
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have an auto responder on not only just d emails,

419
00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:53.880
but you can now have an auto responder on your

420
00:21:53.920 --> 00:21:56.279
text messages, So when your phone's on focus or do

421
00:21:56.359 --> 00:21:59.400
not disturb mode, people will get an automated reply if

422
00:21:59.400 --> 00:22:02.079
that's something that you choose to do. So coming up

423
00:22:02.119 --> 00:22:04.440
with some parameters, and what I often say is we

424
00:22:04.519 --> 00:22:09.000
need to communicate our tech spectations to others as well.

425
00:22:09.160 --> 00:22:11.480
So you know, does your immediate family know that you're

426
00:22:11.519 --> 00:22:14.640
hopeless on applying to text messages to call and instead

427
00:22:14.680 --> 00:22:18.440
to call you if there's something urgent. With organizations, what

428
00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:20.720
I talk to them about is coming up with a

429
00:22:20.920 --> 00:22:24.400
communication escalation plan so that if there is an urgent,

430
00:22:24.519 --> 00:22:28.039
time sensitive, critical issue, there will be one mode of

431
00:22:28.079 --> 00:22:31.039
communication so people can actually switch off at night and

432
00:22:31.039 --> 00:22:33.279
feel like they don't need to be triaging their team's

433
00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:37.200
messages and their emails and they're WhatsApp messages before they

434
00:22:37.200 --> 00:22:39.880
get into bed each night. So just coming up with

435
00:22:39.920 --> 00:22:43.400
some parameters around that and communicating that as best you

436
00:22:43.440 --> 00:22:44.200
can to others.

437
00:22:45.400 --> 00:22:48.519
You're so right, though, see you with your little slogans

438
00:22:48.519 --> 00:22:50.039
and words t expectations.

439
00:22:50.039 --> 00:22:51.960
That is such a such a good term.

440
00:22:52.480 --> 00:22:55.279
Sometimes it has to come from the top in an organization,

441
00:22:55.359 --> 00:22:58.279
doesn't it, Because people at an individual level feel like

442
00:22:58.359 --> 00:23:02.200
if that's the expectation in the workplace, that they don't

443
00:23:02.240 --> 00:23:04.400
know how to manage that.

444
00:23:05.119 --> 00:23:06.839
So when I often go in and either deliver a

445
00:23:06.920 --> 00:23:10.440
keynote or a masterclass, a lot of individuals will come

446
00:23:10.480 --> 00:23:11.960
up to me and say, Christy, I really want to

447
00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:15.160
implement this, but it's really hard to ignore my boss

448
00:23:15.200 --> 00:23:18.359
when he or she is emailing me late into the night,

449
00:23:18.440 --> 00:23:22.279
or when everybody engages in the text pile on all

450
00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:24.359
the teams responding to the team's chat, and you don't

451
00:23:24.359 --> 00:23:26.960
want to look like, you know, the slack person who's

452
00:23:27.039 --> 00:23:31.119
literally ignoring or choosing not to respond. And again, when

453
00:23:31.160 --> 00:23:35.160
we understand our psychology as humans, our most basic psychological

454
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driver is relational connection. We are hardwired to belong, so

455
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we don't want to engage in any behavior that would

456
00:23:42.759 --> 00:23:45.880
possibly socially ostracize us. So even though we know we

457
00:23:45.920 --> 00:23:49.160
shouldn't have to or we don't need to respond after ours,

458
00:23:49.599 --> 00:23:51.920
we often feel compelled to do so because we don't

459
00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:55.079
want to be ostracized from the group or frowned upon

460
00:23:55.359 --> 00:23:57.720
and sort of circling back to that digital presentees, And

461
00:23:57.759 --> 00:24:00.400
we might even want to win favor, so he might

462
00:24:00.440 --> 00:24:03.759
want to be seen to be responsive. So I think again,

463
00:24:04.240 --> 00:24:07.160
these guardrails are critical. But what I'm hearing from teams

464
00:24:07.200 --> 00:24:09.359
who are implementing them, and some people are calling them

465
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team agreements or digital norms, they only work if leaders

466
00:24:14.200 --> 00:24:17.960
are walking the talk as well. It's just so critical

467
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that we get organizational buy in with those as well.

468
00:24:21.559 --> 00:24:23.839
We had a friend over here from Australia.

469
00:24:23.920 --> 00:24:26.240
Just recently over here on some work and he's recently

470
00:24:26.279 --> 00:24:28.559
started a new job and it's a great job.

471
00:24:28.599 --> 00:24:31.119
He's a high level position. He's really excited about it.

472
00:24:31.680 --> 00:24:35.200
And he missed a call from his boss while we

473
00:24:35.200 --> 00:24:37.039
were talking to him, and he said, I'm just going

474
00:24:37.119 --> 00:24:39.519
to leave it, and then we ended up having a

475
00:24:39.519 --> 00:24:42.720
further conversation and he said he doesn't know what it

476
00:24:42.759 --> 00:24:45.519
is with his boss, but anytime his boss has a thought,

477
00:24:45.720 --> 00:24:48.400
like even if they've got a meeting scheduled for two

478
00:24:48.400 --> 00:24:52.200
hours time or later this afternoon, anytime his boss has

479
00:24:52.240 --> 00:24:53.480
a thought, he feels.

480
00:24:53.160 --> 00:24:55.880
The need to immediately communicate it.

481
00:24:56.359 --> 00:24:59.480
And so he'll get just get this random phone calls

482
00:24:59.519 --> 00:25:01.440
from his bos, which obviously he feels like he has

483
00:25:01.480 --> 00:25:04.799
to answer. Yeah, phone calls or emails or whatever, and

484
00:25:04.960 --> 00:25:07.240
it'll go nowhere. It'll be couldn't this have just put

485
00:25:07.319 --> 00:25:09.839
You've made a note and we could talk about this later.

486
00:25:09.880 --> 00:25:11.640
So he's kind of got it on his agenda that

487
00:25:12.119 --> 00:25:14.920
once he's settled in and warmed up that relationship, you know,

488
00:25:15.119 --> 00:25:17.960
like got a more comfortable relationship, that they can start

489
00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:19.039
to have this conversation.

490
00:25:19.119 --> 00:25:22.359
But in the meantime, he's just like kind of missing.

491
00:25:22.039 --> 00:25:25.160
Every other call as a way of kind of putting

492
00:25:25.200 --> 00:25:30.079
some boundaries in trying to manage upwards to just not

493
00:25:30.200 --> 00:25:32.359
reply to everything, because then by the time he does

494
00:25:32.400 --> 00:25:34.960
talk to his boss, the it wasn't an issue anyway,

495
00:25:35.000 --> 00:25:38.960
like it didn't need to be communicated immediately. But I

496
00:25:39.000 --> 00:25:42.000
think there are those individuals too. The technology makes it

497
00:25:42.039 --> 00:25:45.599
so easy to just shoot off a text or an

498
00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:48.079
email or we feel like it gets it off our

499
00:25:48.119 --> 00:25:50.960
plate or out of our head without thinking about what

500
00:25:51.079 --> 00:25:53.759
that's putting on the other person. So I think we

501
00:25:53.799 --> 00:25:55.640
all have a personal responsibility there.

502
00:25:55.720 --> 00:26:00.200
Yeah, absolutely, And why teams and slack and email have

503
00:26:00.359 --> 00:26:03.799
been growing exponentially, you know, we know research tells us

504
00:26:03.799 --> 00:26:08.160
that Microsoft users said twenty point six million more emails

505
00:26:08.200 --> 00:26:10.359
in March twenty twenty one than they did in March

506
00:26:10.400 --> 00:26:14.559
twenty and that's just Microsoft users. So our use of

507
00:26:14.599 --> 00:26:17.839
technology has grown exponentially. And what happens, as you said,

508
00:26:17.920 --> 00:26:21.960
our digital load increases, and it's because it is so easy,

509
00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:25.039
as you said, we want to cognitively offload that. So

510
00:26:25.079 --> 00:26:27.640
we fire off the message and we almost handle the

511
00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:30.559
problem to someone else. So I have encourage people to

512
00:26:30.920 --> 00:26:33.160
you know, instead of firing off the team's chattel, the

513
00:26:33.200 --> 00:26:36.359
slack message. If there is urgent an urgency to it,

514
00:26:36.400 --> 00:26:38.559
then of course do it, but maybe flag it as

515
00:26:38.599 --> 00:26:41.440
being urgent, perhaps right when you need a response by

516
00:26:42.079 --> 00:26:43.759
There are other sorts of things we can do. But

517
00:26:43.839 --> 00:26:46.680
if not having a document. Now, I'm a mum to boys,

518
00:26:46.720 --> 00:26:49.400
So the word dump has all sorts of negative connotations,

519
00:26:49.400 --> 00:26:51.720
so I call it a brain sneeze. So can you

520
00:26:51.759 --> 00:26:55.200
have a brain sneeze document where you literally just add

521
00:26:55.240 --> 00:26:57.680
those little random thoughts that come to you and then

522
00:26:57.720 --> 00:27:00.359
when you have your next team meeting or when it

523
00:27:00.440 --> 00:27:03.039
is a more convenient time to have a longer conversation

524
00:27:03.160 --> 00:27:06.000
with someone, bring those things up so you won't forget them.

525
00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:08.400
But you also haven't handballed the problem to someone else,

526
00:27:08.440 --> 00:27:11.720
because handballing it creates a snowball effect because they then

527
00:27:11.839 --> 00:27:14.519
reply and then off we go down that sort of

528
00:27:14.559 --> 00:27:15.559
digital vortex.

529
00:27:16.039 --> 00:27:19.200
The second pillar you mentioned was tell me again it

530
00:27:19.240 --> 00:27:21.559
was like working with your biology more effectively.

531
00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:25.720
YEA, So neuroproductivity tactics, so working the way our brain

532
00:27:25.759 --> 00:27:28.799
and body is biologically designed. So I talk about a

533
00:27:28.839 --> 00:27:31.200
lot of things, but two points that really stick with

534
00:27:31.240 --> 00:27:34.079
a lot of people The first one is that we

535
00:27:34.119 --> 00:27:38.400
are designed biologically to work in sprints, not marathons. The

536
00:27:38.440 --> 00:27:41.240
part of our brain, the prefrontal cortex that does you know,

537
00:27:41.279 --> 00:27:43.880
all have a heavy lifting especially if we're a knowledge worker.

538
00:27:43.960 --> 00:27:48.079
You know, it solves problems. It's impulse control and working memory.

539
00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:52.000
Our prefrontal cortex, we know, has between a four and

540
00:27:52.079 --> 00:27:55.319
six hour battery life per day, So we are biologically

541
00:27:55.359 --> 00:27:57.960
not designed to sit down and pump out twelve hour

542
00:27:58.039 --> 00:28:01.680
days doing really mentally taxing war. We are designed we

543
00:28:01.720 --> 00:28:04.000
have something in our body called an altrade in rhythm,

544
00:28:04.079 --> 00:28:06.640
meaning that we go through peaks and troughs roughly every

545
00:28:06.720 --> 00:28:08.880
ninety minutes. So we're designed to sort of and it's

546
00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:11.079
a roughly ninety minute period, but we're designed to work

547
00:28:11.119 --> 00:28:15.000
in a sprint and then do something restorative and or

548
00:28:15.079 --> 00:28:18.319
do some lighter work what cal Newport talks about in

549
00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:20.920
terms of shallow work, and then we're designed to do

550
00:28:20.960 --> 00:28:23.880
another sprint. We're not designed to be, you know, machines

551
00:28:23.920 --> 00:28:28.119
that just keep going and going. The second product neuroproductivity

552
00:28:28.160 --> 00:28:30.759
technique that I think I think this is the silver

553
00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:34.200
lining of the pandemic for knowledge workers, given that we've

554
00:28:34.200 --> 00:28:36.319
now got a lot of us, not all of us,

555
00:28:36.680 --> 00:28:39.599
have much more flexibility around when we work. We have

556
00:28:39.640 --> 00:28:44.200
greater schedule flexibility. The silver lining of the pandemic is

557
00:28:44.200 --> 00:28:46.960
that we've now got a greater opportunity to align our

558
00:28:47.039 --> 00:28:50.720
workday with something that we call our chronotype. Are you

559
00:28:50.759 --> 00:28:53.119
feing you with that term, cass, Yeah.

560
00:28:52.920 --> 00:28:55.039
I think so. Is that like basically whether you're more

561
00:28:55.079 --> 00:28:56.599
of a morning person or a night person?

562
00:28:56.920 --> 00:28:59.720
Yeah, So it's determined by your PR three gene and

563
00:28:59.759 --> 00:29:02.599
it dictates, as you said, when you're most focused on

564
00:29:02.640 --> 00:29:06.759
alert and also when you naturally would want to fall asleep. Now,

565
00:29:06.920 --> 00:29:09.640
the trick is that, now that we're not all bound

566
00:29:09.680 --> 00:29:12.039
to a nine to five work day and we've got

567
00:29:12.079 --> 00:29:14.680
more flexibility around how we structure our day, we want

568
00:29:14.680 --> 00:29:17.759
to try and align the cadence of our workday so

569
00:29:17.799 --> 00:29:21.039
that it works in concert with our chronotype. So, if

570
00:29:21.039 --> 00:29:23.599
you are the early morning person, can you try and

571
00:29:23.640 --> 00:29:25.839
get some of your deep work done during that time?

572
00:29:26.200 --> 00:29:29.079
And the trick is, whatever your window is, we be

573
00:29:29.200 --> 00:29:31.279
that an early morning person, maybe you're a middle of

574
00:29:31.319 --> 00:29:34.200
the day or a late afternoon or evening person. The

575
00:29:34.240 --> 00:29:37.799
real trick is that that window, whatever it is for you,

576
00:29:38.119 --> 00:29:40.480
is the time of the day where you have to

577
00:29:40.559 --> 00:29:45.000
build a fortress around your focus. You need to eliminate

578
00:29:45.079 --> 00:29:48.400
as many distractions as possible so you can get that

579
00:29:48.440 --> 00:29:51.359
focused work done. Because we know when we are distracted,

580
00:29:51.920 --> 00:29:55.480
it takes the average adult around twenty three minutes to

581
00:29:55.720 --> 00:29:58.880
get back into that deep focused state. It's called the

582
00:29:58.880 --> 00:30:02.799
resumption lag. So if you think about an average person's day,

583
00:30:02.839 --> 00:30:05.240
you know it's the ping of emails, it's your phone pinging,

584
00:30:05.240 --> 00:30:08.759
it's WhatsApp messages. We're just parenially distracted.

585
00:30:09.359 --> 00:30:12.359
I'm all about at the moment, like getting to know you,

586
00:30:12.559 --> 00:30:14.799
like working in a way that is best for you,

587
00:30:14.839 --> 00:30:18.839
like really doing that self analysis because not everybody is

588
00:30:18.920 --> 00:30:22.480
productive and focused at the same time of day. So

589
00:30:23.039 --> 00:30:24.960
when you know yourself and you know yourself best, then

590
00:30:24.960 --> 00:30:28.160
you've got the best chance of putting those guardrailsers you

591
00:30:28.200 --> 00:30:31.240
say in place. None of us loves to get to

592
00:30:31.279 --> 00:30:34.279
the end of the day and feel like we all do.

593
00:30:34.359 --> 00:30:37.279
I do every day practically like what did I do today?

594
00:30:37.359 --> 00:30:41.160
Because I feel like all I did was respond to distractions,

595
00:30:41.279 --> 00:30:44.440
just deal with distractions all day, Like it's not good

596
00:30:44.440 --> 00:30:47.039
for your self esteem. We just we want to be

597
00:30:47.079 --> 00:30:50.279
productive and effective. So there are ways that we can

598
00:30:50.640 --> 00:30:51.680
increase our chances.

599
00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:55.000
Yeah, and as I said, I think this really is

600
00:30:55.039 --> 00:30:58.119
the silver lining, particularly for knowledge workers. I recognize that,

601
00:30:58.200 --> 00:31:00.759
you know, frontline workers often don't have any sort of

602
00:31:00.759 --> 00:31:03.400
locus of control over when they work, but it was

603
00:31:03.519 --> 00:31:06.720
estimated that before the pandemic, around eighty eight percent of

604
00:31:06.799 --> 00:31:11.359
people had work schedules that conflicted with their chronotype. So,

605
00:31:11.640 --> 00:31:13.960
you know, we had people getting into the office at

606
00:31:13.960 --> 00:31:16.440
eight thirty because that was their start time, but they're

607
00:31:16.920 --> 00:31:19.799
you know, their chronotype really wasn't firing on all cylinders

608
00:31:20.079 --> 00:31:23.759
to perhaps midday. And so I think from a productivity

609
00:31:23.799 --> 00:31:26.480
and a wellbeing perspective, if we can start to work

610
00:31:26.680 --> 00:31:30.519
the way we're designed, huge benefits for both individuals and

611
00:31:30.559 --> 00:31:32.079
their organizations as well.

612
00:31:32.559 --> 00:31:37.680
Yeah. Absolutely, which brings us to distractions. That's like number one,

613
00:31:37.720 --> 00:31:39.480
isn't it? Like I know it's third on your list,

614
00:31:39.559 --> 00:31:45.200
But turning off notifications is so crucial, like limiting the

615
00:31:45.240 --> 00:31:48.839
ability of technology to pull on our attention because we

616
00:31:48.920 --> 00:31:51.079
know that as soon as we get that ping or

617
00:31:51.079 --> 00:31:55.440
that notification which is wired to respond to it. Are

618
00:31:55.480 --> 00:31:58.880
there other things apart from kind of switching off going

619
00:31:58.920 --> 00:32:02.039
through your phone and switching off distractions. What do you suggest, Christy.

620
00:32:02.480 --> 00:32:04.960
We have brains that are biologically designed to go and

621
00:32:05.039 --> 00:32:08.200
forage and hunt and get information. But the problem is

622
00:32:08.240 --> 00:32:12.759
today information is constantly thrust at us, you know, alerts, notifications,

623
00:32:12.839 --> 00:32:16.880
pings and dings, and our brain actually can't differentiate between

624
00:32:16.880 --> 00:32:20.359
a team's notification and a tiger chasing us because they

625
00:32:20.400 --> 00:32:23.160
come to us. Our brain perceives it as a potential stress.

626
00:32:23.160 --> 00:32:26.480
All so really important that we try to eliminate as

627
00:32:26.559 --> 00:32:30.559
many distractions as possible. So when it comes to notifications,

628
00:32:30.559 --> 00:32:33.480
my three golden rules. First one is disable all non

629
00:32:33.559 --> 00:32:36.160
essential notifications. You know, do you really need to be

630
00:32:36.200 --> 00:32:39.519
getting LinkedIn notifications? I don't think so. You certainly do

631
00:32:39.559 --> 00:32:43.759
not need email notifications, Please kill those. My second rule

632
00:32:43.920 --> 00:32:46.880
is that we can now with most apps platforms that

633
00:32:46.920 --> 00:32:50.440
we use, we can now bundle or batch our notifications,

634
00:32:50.440 --> 00:32:53.279
so rather than them dribbling in throughout our day and

635
00:32:53.359 --> 00:32:57.000
parenially distracting us, we can nominate specific times of the

636
00:32:57.079 --> 00:32:59.039
day where I get all of my WhatsApp or all

637
00:32:59.119 --> 00:33:02.720
of my teams notifications. And the third rule is to

638
00:33:02.799 --> 00:33:05.880
create what I call VIP lists, So when you put

639
00:33:05.920 --> 00:33:09.240
your device on focus or do not disturb mode, everybody

640
00:33:09.240 --> 00:33:12.160
gets blocked apart from those people who are on your

641
00:33:12.279 --> 00:33:15.559
VIP list, so be that perhaps it's aging parents or

642
00:33:15.559 --> 00:33:19.680
an age care facility, or children in childcare, or your partner,

643
00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:22.400
or maybe it's a colleague and you're working on a

644
00:33:22.480 --> 00:33:25.640
time sensitive project and they will need instant access to you,

645
00:33:25.680 --> 00:33:28.759
but everybody else gets blocked. So we've got way more

646
00:33:28.799 --> 00:33:32.119
flexibility around how we better manage distractions. And the good

647
00:33:32.160 --> 00:33:34.160
thing with that is we get peace of mind knowing

648
00:33:34.200 --> 00:33:37.519
that I can go sort of offline part in the put,

649
00:33:37.599 --> 00:33:39.880
I could get some focused work done, but have that

650
00:33:39.920 --> 00:33:43.799
almost reassurance that anything critical will still get through to me.

651
00:33:44.720 --> 00:33:46.079
Do you know one thing I used to have set

652
00:33:46.160 --> 00:33:48.880
up and I actually had to turn it off, was

653
00:33:49.039 --> 00:33:52.559
I had like my mother and my husband in as

654
00:33:52.599 --> 00:33:55.920
emergency contacts in my phone, but my settings were said

655
00:33:55.960 --> 00:33:58.200
that when I was on do not disturb, I didn't

656
00:33:58.200 --> 00:34:01.920
get any notifications from anybody except my emergency contacts. But

657
00:34:01.960 --> 00:34:03.880
what happened was if my mum was just texting me

658
00:34:03.920 --> 00:34:06.920
to say I'm coming past, you know, can I call in?

659
00:34:07.240 --> 00:34:09.280
And I was in the middle of like a podcast recording,

660
00:34:09.360 --> 00:34:11.800
I'd still the phone would still read the notification would

661
00:34:11.800 --> 00:34:16.280
still for the most non essential thing. So what you're

662
00:34:16.320 --> 00:34:18.480
saying is you can there's something else that we can

663
00:34:18.559 --> 00:34:20.280
do that stops that from happening.

664
00:34:20.679 --> 00:34:23.159
Yeah, and there's a lot more customization these days, so

665
00:34:23.480 --> 00:34:26.880
sometimes you can even have it automatically sunk with your calendar.

666
00:34:26.960 --> 00:34:29.079
So if you're saying family time, you're going on a

667
00:34:29.159 --> 00:34:32.559
date with your partner, or if you block out meeting time,

668
00:34:32.719 --> 00:34:36.000
it can automatically activate do not disturb mode if they're

669
00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:38.960
sunk together, so you again take away some of the

670
00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:41.000
thinking or the heavy lifting. You don't have to put

671
00:34:41.000 --> 00:34:44.920
those rudimentary steps in place. Another little microhabit that I

672
00:34:45.079 --> 00:34:48.400
found really helpful when I know I'm likely to be

673
00:34:48.440 --> 00:34:50.800
distracted by my phone, and we all have days like that,

674
00:34:51.000 --> 00:34:53.920
especially when we're tired. You know, when we're tired, our

675
00:34:54.519 --> 00:34:58.239
self regulation which our brain doesn't work. That's why we

676
00:34:58.280 --> 00:35:01.559
make crappier food choices on those days when we're tired.

677
00:35:01.960 --> 00:35:04.039
I turned my phone to grace scale mode, and I

678
00:35:04.079 --> 00:35:07.119
am the first to say that Instagram is really boring

679
00:35:07.360 --> 00:35:10.719
in grace scale mode again, just creating a little bit

680
00:35:10.719 --> 00:35:13.719
of a psychological distance from us wanting to pick it up,

681
00:35:14.199 --> 00:35:17.280
you know, logging out of apps again, or we're doing

682
00:35:17.400 --> 00:35:21.039
is creating some rudimentary steps, but we're creating a bit

683
00:35:21.079 --> 00:35:23.920
more friction. The problem while we all get sucked into

684
00:35:23.920 --> 00:35:26.880
the vortex is it's almost a frictionless experience. You know,

685
00:35:26.920 --> 00:35:29.039
you don't even have to type in your passcode anymore.

686
00:35:29.079 --> 00:35:31.440
You just hold it up for facial recognition, and off

687
00:35:31.480 --> 00:35:32.760
you go down that vortex.

688
00:35:33.519 --> 00:35:35.159
I think I said to you last time that one

689
00:35:35.159 --> 00:35:37.400
thing that I did was I would, if I really

690
00:35:37.480 --> 00:35:41.480
wanted to be not pulled into social media for example,

691
00:35:41.559 --> 00:35:43.880
like I would just delete the app off my phone

692
00:35:43.960 --> 00:35:45.360
for the day or for the weekend, like I.

693
00:35:45.360 --> 00:35:47.400
Would delete Facebook, delete Instagram.

694
00:35:47.639 --> 00:35:50.119
And it was really surprising to me how often I

695
00:35:50.119 --> 00:35:53.280
would just automatically reach and try to open it, Like

696
00:35:53.320 --> 00:35:56.719
I probably wasn't really aware of just how compulsively I

697
00:35:56.800 --> 00:35:59.320
was reaching for those apps until I removed it and

698
00:35:59.360 --> 00:36:01.840
didn't have acts to it. And the other thing that

699
00:36:01.880 --> 00:36:06.119
I do is I, for whatever reason, I have personal email,

700
00:36:06.199 --> 00:36:08.400
which is set up as an Outlook account, Like I

701
00:36:08.480 --> 00:36:11.400
use Outlook on my phone and I have Gmail for

702
00:36:11.480 --> 00:36:13.920
my business, So I will remove the Gmail app from

703
00:36:13.920 --> 00:36:16.360
my phone so I can't get we still get personal emails,

704
00:36:16.360 --> 00:36:19.760
but I can't get work ones. So and I noticed

705
00:36:19.760 --> 00:36:22.679
that one day I accidentally added my work email to

706
00:36:22.760 --> 00:36:24.719
my Outlook and I suddenly started getting all of these

707
00:36:24.760 --> 00:36:25.679
work emails on a weekends.

708
00:36:25.679 --> 00:36:26.679
Oh oh my god, what have I done?

709
00:36:26.719 --> 00:36:29.960
So I kind to quickly quickly remove that because I

710
00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:32.480
don't want to get those ones on the weekend. But

711
00:36:32.519 --> 00:36:33.880
you're right, there are all these things that we can

712
00:36:33.920 --> 00:36:35.920
put in place so that it takes the thinking out

713
00:36:36.039 --> 00:36:39.519
and it actually just removes the temptation almost.

714
00:36:39.960 --> 00:36:43.599
Yeah. And another really simple one if you like that technique,

715
00:36:43.639 --> 00:36:46.760
is taking your tech temptations off the home screen of

716
00:36:46.800 --> 00:36:48.920
your phone. Like you may not want to go to

717
00:36:49.000 --> 00:36:51.559
the links you did cass of deleting it, but if

718
00:36:51.559 --> 00:36:53.719
you have to move it to the fifth screen on

719
00:36:53.760 --> 00:36:58.840
your phone, Quban Kyleenberg from The Resilience Project says, take

720
00:36:58.880 --> 00:37:00.920
it a step further and pop in a folder and

721
00:37:00.960 --> 00:37:04.119
call the folder things will later regret. So every time

722
00:37:04.159 --> 00:37:06.119
you have to go in and find that folding, you

723
00:37:06.159 --> 00:37:09.840
get a little pang of guilt. But again, we're just

724
00:37:09.920 --> 00:37:13.480
creating more friction because that home screen on your phone

725
00:37:13.559 --> 00:37:16.039
is prime real estate, so keep it there for the

726
00:37:16.159 --> 00:37:19.960
sort of bare necessities other people find a really simple

727
00:37:20.119 --> 00:37:22.760
but powerful tool is having a screen saver. You know

728
00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:25.039
that asks you, now, do you really want to pick

729
00:37:25.079 --> 00:37:27.599
me up? Or you know, what are you missing out

730
00:37:27.599 --> 00:37:31.400
on again just to guess, to question our behavior? Hmmm.

731
00:37:32.159 --> 00:37:35.440
Interesting. And then the final one is unplugged. As you said,

732
00:37:35.480 --> 00:37:38.599
it is the toughest one. How often should we be unplugging?

733
00:37:39.159 --> 00:37:42.440
How do we do that knowing how difficult it actually is.

734
00:37:42.480 --> 00:37:43.960
What do we need to put in place to make

735
00:37:44.000 --> 00:37:45.400
us feel better about unplugging?

736
00:37:45.880 --> 00:37:47.159
What are your suggestions?

737
00:37:47.559 --> 00:37:49.159
So I want to be really clear, I'm not saying

738
00:37:49.159 --> 00:37:50.920
you have to do a digital detox, but we need

739
00:37:50.960 --> 00:37:53.559
to have pockets of our day and our week where

740
00:37:53.599 --> 00:37:57.719
we psychologically detach from technology. Because I don't know about ucas,

741
00:37:57.719 --> 00:37:59.760
but I have never ever come up with a creative

742
00:37:59.800 --> 00:38:02.880
via or a complex solution to a problem in an

743
00:38:02.920 --> 00:38:06.840
Excel spreadsheet or in my inbox. My ideas germinate when

744
00:38:06.840 --> 00:38:08.960
I'm in the shower, when I'm going for a swim,

745
00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:11.679
when I'm going for a run, when I'm on holidays

746
00:38:11.679 --> 00:38:14.360
with no Wi Fi. And we know we have to

747
00:38:14.400 --> 00:38:17.000
turn off our prefrontal cortex and we have to engage

748
00:38:17.039 --> 00:38:19.119
in what's called the default mode network. We used to

749
00:38:19.199 --> 00:38:22.960
call it daydreaming, And so now I think we have

750
00:38:23.039 --> 00:38:26.440
to be so much more intentional about doing this, because

751
00:38:26.519 --> 00:38:27.800
so many of us say, I'm going to go for

752
00:38:27.800 --> 00:38:29.440
a walk and I'll pop my ear pods in and

753
00:38:29.440 --> 00:38:31.760
I can listen to a podcast or an audiobook at

754
00:38:31.800 --> 00:38:34.480
one and a half speed. And we actually don't have

755
00:38:34.599 --> 00:38:37.960
any pockets of time where we meander with our thoughts,

756
00:38:38.559 --> 00:38:40.760
you know, any bit of white space. Today we pull

757
00:38:40.800 --> 00:38:43.679
out our phone. So it's again just making intentional time

758
00:38:44.159 --> 00:38:47.800
at a bare minimum. I think we need at least

759
00:38:48.400 --> 00:38:51.159
an hour or two at minimum, you know, the absolute

760
00:38:51.199 --> 00:38:54.440
minimum effective dose of that a week for healthy wellbeing.

761
00:38:55.760 --> 00:38:56.239
Yes, we do.

762
00:38:56.320 --> 00:38:57.840
And I was just as you were talking, trying to

763
00:38:57.880 --> 00:38:59.880
think about the last time I unplugged, and I.

764
00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:03.039
Probably can't really remember.

765
00:39:03.280 --> 00:39:05.800
I think I used to be much more conscious of that,

766
00:39:06.199 --> 00:39:09.679
and it's just something like most healthy habits. I guess

767
00:39:09.719 --> 00:39:13.599
it's just something that has just dropped off and been forgotten.

768
00:39:13.639 --> 00:39:18.320
And reading your book just really reminded me of how

769
00:39:18.360 --> 00:39:20.440
important it is to come back to that and to

770
00:39:20.599 --> 00:39:22.800
kind of take control of that again and to make

771
00:39:22.880 --> 00:39:25.559
sure that I am not having my phone in my

772
00:39:25.639 --> 00:39:27.239
room that I am not turning it on and looking

773
00:39:27.280 --> 00:39:28.840
at it the first thing I do when I wake

774
00:39:28.880 --> 00:39:31.000
up in the morning, because all those bad habits have

775
00:39:31.039 --> 00:39:33.239
crept back in for me, like I'm sure they have

776
00:39:33.320 --> 00:39:34.199
for a lot of people.

777
00:39:34.719 --> 00:39:37.719
Yeah, I'm describing exactly what you're talking about as the

778
00:39:37.760 --> 00:39:40.679
digital hangover. You know, some unhealthy tech habits crept in

779
00:39:40.760 --> 00:39:43.960
during the pandemic, But I think what's happening now is

780
00:39:43.960 --> 00:39:47.519
that we've almost held on to some of those habits,

781
00:39:47.679 --> 00:39:50.400
and that's why we're seeing this digital hangover with some

782
00:39:50.519 --> 00:39:52.239
unhealthy things that we could change.

783
00:39:52.920 --> 00:39:55.519
Yeah, and hopefully this conversation has been a good prompt

784
00:39:55.519 --> 00:40:00.239
and reminded to everybody who's experiencing the same thing. Your

785
00:40:00.280 --> 00:40:02.360
new book, Dear Digital, we need to talk what I

786
00:40:02.400 --> 00:40:04.280
love about it. Like I said at the beginning, it's

787
00:40:04.320 --> 00:40:08.800
so just clear and practical. It's not a long book,

788
00:40:08.880 --> 00:40:12.159
you know, like loaded up with complex information. It's just

789
00:40:12.320 --> 00:40:16.840
really straight to the point, and it's full of practical suggestions.

790
00:40:17.519 --> 00:40:18.400
What I also love.

791
00:40:18.280 --> 00:40:21.039
About you is that you are available not just to

792
00:40:21.079 --> 00:40:23.840
help us as individuals, but obviously going into organizations and

793
00:40:23.880 --> 00:40:26.280
helping for people to make those changes from the top down.

794
00:40:26.360 --> 00:40:30.880
So you're always available for keynotes and workshops and all

795
00:40:30.880 --> 00:40:34.199
of the things that you do. Christy, thank you for

796
00:40:34.559 --> 00:40:38.119
coming back again today and sharing your expertise. It has

797
00:40:38.159 --> 00:40:39.920
been really, really fabulous.

798
00:40:40.280 --> 00:40:42.519
Thank you for having me, And thank goodness for technology,

799
00:40:42.559 --> 00:40:44.920
because we wouldn't have this conversation without it.

800
00:40:45.360 --> 00:40:48.440
We wouldn't be having this conversation if it weren't for technology,

801
00:40:48.480 --> 00:40:51.199
after all of that, without sixty centimeters away from each

802
00:40:51.199 --> 00:40:59.320
other's screens on Zoom. You can find out all about

803
00:40:59.320 --> 00:41:03.320
doctor Christie's work at her website, Doctor Christigodwin dot com.

804
00:41:03.559 --> 00:41:06.519
Her book, Dear Digital, We Need to Talk is out

805
00:41:06.599 --> 00:41:10.920
now in all bookstores. Obviously, don't forget that my Audible original,

806
00:41:11.159 --> 00:41:15.719
The Imposter Solution is available right now exclusively on Audible.

807
00:41:15.800 --> 00:41:18.199
If you're an Audible subscriber, you can listen for free.

808
00:41:18.320 --> 00:41:19.079
If you're not a.

809
00:41:19.000 --> 00:41:21.639
Subscriber, you can have a thirty day free trial, and

810
00:41:21.679 --> 00:41:24.599
you can still listen for free. I'm at cast don

811
00:41:24.679 --> 00:41:27.400
dot com. Connect with me on Instagram and TikTok cast

812
00:41:27.400 --> 00:41:30.719
on Underscore. XO always love to hear from listeners. Send

813
00:41:30.800 --> 00:41:34.000
me in your questions for my next solo episode and

814
00:41:34.280 --> 00:41:36.239
I can't wait to catch you on the next episode

815
00:41:36.280 --> 00:41:44.400
of Craby to haveby listener