May 15, 2023

Debunking modern witchcraft and other new age practices with Don Martin

Debunking modern witchcraft and other new age practices with Don Martin
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Debunking modern witchcraft and other new age practices with Don Martin
Debunking modern witchcraft and other new age practices with Don Martin
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Season 9 Creativity & Self-Expression

The past few years there’s been a focus on individuals, being called to start to recognise and unpack our privilege, and look at behaviours or actions that might be harmful to others. The new age world has come under fire for things like cultural appropriation, toxic positivity and victim blaming. But is it all bad?Does that mean we need to walk away from these new age spiritual practices altogether? Or is there a way we can do them that is in integrity and causes no harm?
Today, we are joined by the incredible Don Martin. Don is the host of the Head on Fire podcast, and author of the book The Dabblers Guide to Witchcraft - a book that I’m really loving right now. 
He’s also published two collections of poetry - the first is called The Playground and the most recent is called while i wait to be a god again
Don is here to do a big debunking of modern witchcraft and share with us how to create spiritual practices and rituals that work for us, and cause no harm.
To connect with Don check out his instagram, tiktok and podcast.
Connect with Cass:www.crappytohappypod.comhello@crappytohappypod.com 
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Contact Crappy to Happy:

Email: hello@crappytohappypod.com
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Transcript
WEBVTT

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A listener production.

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This past few years, there's been a focus on individuals

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being called to begin to recognize and unpack our privilege

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and to look at the behaviors and actions we might

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be taking that could be harmful to others. Certainly, the

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New Age world has not been exempt from this.

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It has come under fire for things.

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Like cultural appropriation, toxic positivity otherwise known as spiritual bypassing,

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and even victim blaming.

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But is it all bad?

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Doesn't mean that we have to walk away from these

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New Age or spiritual ideas and practices altogether, or is

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there a way that we can do them that is

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in integrity and that doesn't cause harm to others? Today,

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I am very excited to introduce you to the incredible

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Don Martin. Don is the host of the Head on

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Fire podcast.

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He is author of.

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The book The Dabbler's Guide to Witchcraft, which he actually

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wrote under a pseudonym, which is Firelight if you're looking

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for that book, and he's published two collections of poetry.

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The first is called The Playground and the most recent

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is called While I Wait to Be a God Again.

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Don is here to do a big debunking of some

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of the myths and misconceptions around modern witchcraft and share

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with us how we can create spiritual practices and rituals

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that work for us but also do no harm. I

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think that you will love this conversation with Don Don Martin,

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Welcome to the Crappy to Happy Podcast.

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Well, thank you so much for having me.

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Don. I came across you on Instagram.

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I love your content, and then I found out that

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you had written a book called The Dabbler's Guide to

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Witchcraft and decided that I absolutely had to interview you

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about this topic and about anything else that you want

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to talk about, because I just find you really interesting. Well,

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thank you, But let's start with witchcraft as a person

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myself who considers myself to be a person who is

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spiritual but not religious, And I know you talk about

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that in the book. What is witchcraft and what kind

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of drew you to it and to ultimately deciding to

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write a book about it? Big question, I know to

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start with, but what's.

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Your beddy is? But I mean it is, but it isn't.

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It's all the same answers, So you do actually bring

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up kind of the crux of who the book is for.

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So you know, you call yourself spiritual but not religious.

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And the thing is the Pew Research Forum, big huge,

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kind of a data analytics group here in the United States,

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they operate globally, says that at least here in the

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United States, the largest religious group identifies as some flavor

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of Christian right. But that number has been on the

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decline for quite a while. And when people talk about

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the largest religious groups, they often talk about something with

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an anity or an ism behind it, you know, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism,

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something like that. And what's left out of the conversation

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is the second largest religious group in the US and

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a rapidly growing religious group around the world are people

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that say that they have no religion, that they are

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not religiously affiliated. Now, under that you have an entire

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spectrum of people, but the largest number of people that

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say that they don't have a religion or people who

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identify as spiritual but not religious. And there are a

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number of different sort of sociological political reasons why people

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end up identifying as spiritual but not religious. And those

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reasons range from anything from my church got too political

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and they do not uphold the kind of ideals, values,

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mores that I want to see reflected in society. I

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don't want to see I don't want to go to

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church and listen to a gospel of homophobia or transphobia

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or racism, xenophobia, etc. So I want to find a

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version of spirituality that works for me, that is tailored

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to how I see the world, that is tailored to

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the kind of world that I want to live in.

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And so people go off and they kind of create

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their own spiritual paths, They become dabblers, and they start

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exploring other religions, other ways of thinking. They'll verge off

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into all sorts of territories, including anything from the wellness

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industry and yoga to falling down a well of witchcraft,

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all sorts of things. And witchcraft is one of those

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things that people will kind of dive into, usually because

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they are seeking a way to kind of reclaim some

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lost power, reclaim some way of reasserting control over their

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own lives. And typically the people that come to it women, minorities,

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queer folks, people who do not have the social power

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that is given to folks that sit well inside the

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cystender heterosexual, white, patriarchal norm. And actually there's like a

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really long history of people claiming the title of which,

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especially in the last few hundred years, that aren't doing

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it for spiritual reasons at all, that are doing it

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more for political reasons. Like there was a group that

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called themselves witch Witch. They did things like upend the

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stock market. They glued the doors of the stock market

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shut so that you couldn't get into it here in Chicago,

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And yeah, you know, we saw a movement where people

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of all different faith backgrounds and all levels of belief

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came together to do a hex against Donald Trump a

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few years ago, just sort of as a way of saying,

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you know, don't I don't have any power here. Clearly

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my voice is not being heard. I want to feel

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like I'm doing something. So coming together with a bunch

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of people to light an effigy on fire and say

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some words and scream at the moon or something like

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that is a way for me to feel like I'm

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at least doing something, like I at least have a voice.

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So there's all sorts of people that get into some

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level of witchcraft, which ends up being just kind of

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a term that means somebody that practices magic, somebody that

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and what does magic mean to different people? Some people

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say that it is as benign as something psychological. You know,

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you're kind of training your brain to be more successful

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by telling yourself, Okay, I'm going to go carry around

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this greenstone while I do, you know, while I do

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my job applications or something like that. Well, if you're

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doing a bunch of job applications and you're also of

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the belief that you're going to get a job, you're

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probably gonna you're probably going to just be a little

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bit more assertive or a little bit more in your

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job application process to anything too. You know, people that

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do actually believe that they are working great works of

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magic upon the earth that defy physics and the laws

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of reality as we know them and stuff. So it's

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all of that, and people come to it for lots

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of reasons.

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So much to unpack in just all right, Well, you

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asked several questions to answer them. Good job first out

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people who use the term which these are not. This

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is separate from this long what I assume is a

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long lineage or tradition of a particular kind of.

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I love that you bring that up, because that's actually

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a fun myth.

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Really, Yes, that's what I mean, Right, I need to yes, okay, go.

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So there was a woman named Margaret Murray in the

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early nineteen hundreds. She was an Egyptologist, I think, if

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we're being charitable, and she wrote a book called the

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witch Cult of Western Europe, came out around the nineteen twenties,

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and it is almost single handedly responsible. She drew on

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some previous kind of fake lore, which is, you know, folklore,

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but it's completely made up.

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I like that.

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I like that fake law.

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Yeah. She is almost single handedly responsible for everything that

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we all of the wrong things that we think about

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witchcraft in the modern day.

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Wow.

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She is the one that said that there is this long,

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unbroken line of witches dating back hundreds thousands of years,

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going back into Western Europe, that there are all of

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these covens, and that they were in the secret war

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with the Church. And she invented the word spat to

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mean a sacred ritual the under certain kinds of moon phases,

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and you know, so that Sabbath, all of the stuff

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that people think of like this ancient unbroken line of

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witches and it's this ancient thing. She made that up

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and it got really popular. Yeah, she made that up

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and it got really, really really popular and then other

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people just started parroting it. But then actual historians got involved,

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folks like Ronald Hutton or Owen Davies or somebody and

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came in. We're like, hey, folks, this is wile. This

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is very fun. This is not true. This is not true.

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There's this kind of parallel theory that she helped bolster.

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There was originally set up by a guy a little

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while previously to her, but that there's this time when

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this women's holocaust where nine million women were burned at

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the stake in what we now call the Burning Times

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in the witchcraft trials, when people were burned at the stake. Well,

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in Margaret Murray's world, all of those people were actually

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witches and they were fighting this war against the Church

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and all of that, and there were nine million people killed,

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and that's not even a little bit true. And it

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was all women, and that's not true. And it's yeah. So,

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like scholars tell us on the big side, over a

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three hundred year period, maybe forty thousand between I have

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seen the lowest estimates be thirty thousand, and the highest

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number I have ever seen anywhere is sixty thousand parroted

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by scholars, which is a far cry from nine million. Yeah,

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well it's also also over a three hundred year period.

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You called your book The Devil Is God to Witchcraft.

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And while I was reading it and looking at the

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key themes that you've written, I really thought, this is

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really kind of the thinking persons. This should have been

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called The Thinking Person's God to Witchcraft because it was.

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Originally called Ethical Dabbling and the the marketers so my

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editor loved the title. I liked the title. That was

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the title the book was sold under. But a fun

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fact about nonfiction publishing is you never get to choose

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your title. Marketing choosers your title for you, and they

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didn't want the word ethics on there at all. But

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it was more geared towards kind of a social discussion

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of the culture and practice of modern practitioners, why they practice,

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some of the pitfalls of it, you know, how much

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fraud there is inside of that community.

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In all of that, you didn't actually share how you

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came to witchcraft.

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Oh, band, I was in band in high school, and

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I was always the kid that you know, I read

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a lot of mythology as a kid, and I was,

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you know, I was just a super fan of I

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don't know, witchy stories and stuff like that. And a

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girl that I was in band with sat next to

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me and she had an old Scott Cunningham book and

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I was like, what is that because I thought it

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was I thought it was a novel. I didn't know.

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I didn't know what it was, just like, oh, it's

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reading material. I was like, Okay, can I read it?

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She's like sure, and I picked it up and I

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was just I was entranced. I was like, wait, magic

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is real. People do this like for real? And then

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like I was off to the races. I was off

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to the races. I will say the actual first introduction

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that I had to await people actually do practice magic

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for real was this book that my parents bought for

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Halloween and it was like the History of Halloween or

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something like that, and there were all of these like

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little stories and the history was terrible because it's a

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book for kids. But it introduced me to the idea

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that like, no, no, no, there were people that really called

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themselves witches or druids or something and they really practiced magic.

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And so it has meant different things to me at

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different times, but that was my introduction to the world

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was banned.

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I still am not really sure, So what is Can

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you just help me? And especially for people listening who

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like me are like, oh, I sort of imagine just

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like witches and cauldrons and spells and burning things smudging,

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what is wicka witchcraft and paganism? How do those three things?

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What's that connection to each other? Because I hear a

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lot about paganism as well. Is that some sort of religion?

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Look, none of this is ancient, actually, and you you,

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you might. You might have people that write in and

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say that guy is an idiot. He doesn't know what

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he's talking about. We are because they were talking about

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because there is this belief that we are reconstructing ancient

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pagan religions. And when you say pagan, some people use

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the word the way the dictionary uses it, which is uh,

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which is which is to say, basically anything that isn't

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an Abrahamic tradition. But there are a whole lot of

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Buddhists in the world that wouldn't call themselves pagan. There's

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a whole lot of Janists in the world that wouldn't

240
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call themselves pagan. There's a whole lot of Daoists in

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the world that probably wouldn't call themselves pagan, and I

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think it's wildly offensive to call to force a label

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onto people that that don't personally ascribe to it. The

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way that most people that call themselves pagan typically identify

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as is some level of earth based spirituality that has

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some kind of reverence for the natur natural world, the

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natural cycle of things, And that is about as granular

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of a definition as I think it can be given.

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Because there are a whole lot of people that practice

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things with different kinds of names that fall under the

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pagan umbrella, one of which is Wicca. Wicka's the largest

252
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pagan religion, and people sometimes treat them as synonymous. Your

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wicked or your pagan, or your wicked, or you're a witch,

254
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and all of those things are synonymous. They aren't. Pagan

255
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is just sort of a way of thinking. It's a

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type of spiritual umbrella. Wicka is a religion that was

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credited to be founded by Gerald Gardner in the mid

258
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nineteen hundreds. He really helped he really helped some of

259
00:14:50.360 --> 00:14:53.480
those Margaret Murray theories kind of take off. He wrote

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a book called I Think Witchcraft Today, and he wrote

261
00:14:56.759 --> 00:15:00.200
several books, created a coven, got kind of fame. He

262
00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:04.919
was also a big famous nudist, which is probably why

263
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a lot of Wickens practice things what they call skyclad,

264
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which is where they do at naked and has everything

265
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to do with the fact that it's very spiritual and

266
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nothing at all to do with the fact that Gerald

267
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Gardner was a nudist. So for me, but it's its

268
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own religion. It is new and if you talk to

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anybody who is any kind of scholar, legit person inside

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of the community, like I love folks like Thorn Mooney,

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they'll tell you no, no, it's it's at most seventy years old.

272
00:15:34.679 --> 00:15:38.600
It's it's really yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. None of this

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is ancient at least not how we mean any of

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these terms.

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Gotcha.

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There are people that consider that they are doing something

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called like reconstruction and you'll hear somebody call themselves like

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a Hellenic reconstructionist or something, and that to them, that

279
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means that they believe that they are reconstructing the faith

280
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and spirit practices of like ancient Greeks, and then they

281
00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:05.399
will say that they then have a tie to like

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an ancient practice. It very rarely tends to line up

283
00:16:09.720 --> 00:16:14.320
with history. But that's that is not my bag. I

284
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will leave that to to the historians.

285
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Uh.

286
00:16:17.200 --> 00:16:22.039
There have been some really fascinating discussions actually about sort

287
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of reconstructionism amidst not only folks from inside the communities

288
00:16:26.559 --> 00:16:30.039
that are still existing, Like there are some Greek scholars

289
00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:31.840
these days that are like, what is it that you

290
00:16:31.879 --> 00:16:35.039
people are doing? Why do you why does like some

291
00:16:35.960 --> 00:16:40.360
person anyways, So there's some fascinating discussions about like what

292
00:16:40.720 --> 00:16:45.399
is reconstructionism, the value of reconstructionism, whether it's actually reconstructing anything,

293
00:16:45.480 --> 00:16:48.120
or whether it's still just kind of brand new, and

294
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all of that again not my lane. I just know

295
00:16:51.279 --> 00:16:53.240
that it's there, and I know all the people that

296
00:16:53.279 --> 00:16:56.519
I respect, who who I listen to, that I listen

297
00:16:56.559 --> 00:17:00.399
to them, and I listen to those voices. Witchcraft is

298
00:17:00.879 --> 00:17:02.600
then the practice of magic, and I think that that

299
00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:06.160
could probably be said to be the most ancient of

300
00:17:06.200 --> 00:17:09.680
any of these words, because where there are people, there

301
00:17:09.720 --> 00:17:14.519
is witchcraft. Go look back at any level of humanity

302
00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:18.079
and there is someone somewhere doing some kind of reverence

303
00:17:18.400 --> 00:17:21.680
of the world around them and thinking that they can

304
00:17:21.839 --> 00:17:28.039
influence it by some type of spiritual intercession. Had ancient

305
00:17:28.079 --> 00:17:30.599
people that thought that they could make it rain by

306
00:17:31.079 --> 00:17:35.839
certain acts or all sorts of stuff. So that has

307
00:17:35.880 --> 00:17:38.880
been around about as long as humanity has been around.

308
00:17:39.519 --> 00:17:42.039
In the book, I say witches are sort of like

309
00:17:42.839 --> 00:17:46.440
birds and the fossil record. There's just not really a

310
00:17:46.480 --> 00:17:49.559
point in the human in human history where we can

311
00:17:49.599 --> 00:17:52.519
point and say, oh, before this was witches, and after

312
00:17:52.559 --> 00:17:54.960
this was witches, Here's where witches came from. Like, there's

313
00:17:55.039 --> 00:17:57.759
just no point in human history that we can point

314
00:17:57.799 --> 00:18:00.200
to and say, oh, here's where we started believing that

315
00:18:00.240 --> 00:18:02.839
we had that we could do magic. Like it just

316
00:18:02.880 --> 00:18:05.759
seems like something that we've always done. Magical thinking has

317
00:18:05.799 --> 00:18:07.640
always existed in some former fashion.

318
00:18:07.880 --> 00:18:12.839
Have particular rituals or practices for things like the spells

319
00:18:12.960 --> 00:18:15.880
or the barrowing or the saging, have they changed over

320
00:18:15.960 --> 00:18:17.680
time just because of Oh?

321
00:18:17.720 --> 00:18:20.119
Sure? And I think the more that the Internet kind

322
00:18:20.160 --> 00:18:24.279
of gets involved in that, the faster things change because

323
00:18:24.319 --> 00:18:27.559
we see what other people are doing and we do that.

324
00:18:28.240 --> 00:18:30.200
But you actually bring up a really good point. There

325
00:18:30.200 --> 00:18:32.480
are things that we've been doing for a long time

326
00:18:32.480 --> 00:18:36.960
that we've started to stop doing, Like you're talking about

327
00:18:36.960 --> 00:18:39.880
white sage. White sage is a plant that is very

328
00:18:39.880 --> 00:18:45.319
sacred to certain native American groups here in the US,

329
00:18:46.079 --> 00:18:50.039
and there's a lot of problems with it. There have

330
00:18:50.119 --> 00:18:53.279
been claims that it is being over harvested to the

331
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point that the actual indigenous people themselves can't get access

332
00:18:59.240 --> 00:19:02.359
to it, or that the way that it is being

333
00:19:02.440 --> 00:19:06.480
harvested is damaging the plants permanently and killing the plants,

334
00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:10.279
opposed to when Indigenous people harvested the harvested in a

335
00:19:10.279 --> 00:19:12.279
way that saves the plant so that it can continue

336
00:19:12.319 --> 00:19:16.880
to provide sage leaves forever on. There are folks that

337
00:19:16.920 --> 00:19:20.440
are just saying, like, what you're doing is not is

338
00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:24.599
not smudging, That is not the sacred ritual that we do.

339
00:19:24.680 --> 00:19:27.200
You all are using some kind of like bastardized whole

340
00:19:27.240 --> 00:19:34.240
foods suburban white lady yoga version of smudging, which you know,

341
00:19:34.480 --> 00:19:37.119
what we've done is we've taken it and boiled it

342
00:19:37.160 --> 00:19:39.480
down to Oh, I burn this leaf and I wave

343
00:19:39.519 --> 00:19:41.799
it around my house and the bad things go away,

344
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Whereas in Native American practices, it is a much more

345
00:19:47.799 --> 00:19:52.720
thought out ritual that purifies. It's not just purifying your bedroom.

346
00:19:52.759 --> 00:19:56.279
It's purifying, purifying yourself, purifying your spirit, your soul, and

347
00:19:56.319 --> 00:20:02.079
it's this whole other beautiful thing that isn't just lighting

348
00:20:02.079 --> 00:20:06.559
a leaf and waving around in your room. And Native

349
00:20:06.559 --> 00:20:09.200
people have really gotten in to say, okay, if you're

350
00:20:09.240 --> 00:20:11.000
going to do it, we ask that you at least

351
00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:16.680
learn what this is from Native people, maybe buy from

352
00:20:16.839 --> 00:20:19.039
Native people if you absolutely must do it. And if

353
00:20:19.079 --> 00:20:20.400
you don't want to do any of those things, then

354
00:20:20.440 --> 00:20:23.039
find something else to burn. And that's where you see people,

355
00:20:23.240 --> 00:20:26.079
you know, finding other things. You know they'll burn rosemary

356
00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:29.720
or lavender bay leaves or something like that. So there

357
00:20:29.720 --> 00:20:32.480
are certain things that I suppose, I guess you could

358
00:20:32.519 --> 00:20:36.240
say have always existed in some kind of fashion. People

359
00:20:36.279 --> 00:20:40.039
have always thought that, like blood is a very powerful

360
00:20:40.200 --> 00:20:43.720
kind of thing, A piece of a person's personal effects,

361
00:20:43.799 --> 00:20:46.319
your hair, your nails, anything that came off of your

362
00:20:46.359 --> 00:20:51.720
body is powerful and should be protected. Your name shouldn't

363
00:20:51.720 --> 00:20:55.119
be given away so freely. What is actually ancient and

364
00:20:55.160 --> 00:20:58.759
what is faux ancient? What's a bit of fake lore.

365
00:20:59.039 --> 00:21:01.839
I'm not a historic and I don't know. That's why

366
00:21:01.880 --> 00:21:05.000
I interview them on my show and when I do research.

367
00:21:06.279 --> 00:21:08.680
But I know enough to know that very few things

368
00:21:08.680 --> 00:21:11.640
are as ancients as a lot of modern practitioners like

369
00:21:11.640 --> 00:21:12.319
to say that they are.

370
00:21:12.640 --> 00:21:14.319
This is why I love that you've written this book,

371
00:21:14.319 --> 00:21:17.920
and I'm really pointing people to read it because what

372
00:21:17.960 --> 00:21:19.559
you're just talking about them with the White Sage. You

373
00:21:19.599 --> 00:21:23.000
talk a lot in the book about the cultural appreciation

374
00:21:23.119 --> 00:21:26.000
versus appropriation. I think these are conversations that we're obviously

375
00:21:26.039 --> 00:21:30.119
having more and more currently, thankfully, because there is so

376
00:21:30.319 --> 00:21:33.440
much that we have been doing that is completely offensive

377
00:21:33.880 --> 00:21:38.119
and inappropriate. Are there other examples of things that we've

378
00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:40.400
been doing? I was going to say witchcraft or not,

379
00:21:40.480 --> 00:21:43.279
but it sounds like anything kind of spiritual, anything a

380
00:21:43.279 --> 00:21:46.559
bit new age or alternative, and probably even the things

381
00:21:46.559 --> 00:21:49.119
that I do in my life, probably from what you're saying,

382
00:21:49.160 --> 00:21:50.240
fall under that banner.

383
00:21:50.960 --> 00:21:52.359
I will call them witchcraft.

384
00:21:52.680 --> 00:21:55.880
So that's the thing is that while this book is

385
00:21:55.920 --> 00:22:00.039
the Dabbler's Guide to Witchcraft, right, it does go to

386
00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:04.200
the fact that we are just having bigger conversations and

387
00:22:04.319 --> 00:22:10.160
spirituality is a part of our lives that intersects with

388
00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:12.400
all of those things. So, like in the book you're

389
00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:16.279
talking about cultural appropriation versus cultural appreciation, I use the

390
00:22:17.039 --> 00:22:20.160
metaphor of is it a gate or is it a window?

391
00:22:20.920 --> 00:22:23.799
And I talk about pride parades, so we're not talking

392
00:22:23.799 --> 00:22:26.559
about witchcraft at all. We're not talking about anything spiritual

393
00:22:26.599 --> 00:22:31.000
there necessarily, we're talking about a marginalized or oppressed group.

394
00:22:31.960 --> 00:22:37.920
And what I tell folks is okay. So there are

395
00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:42.200
times whenever communities will invite you in, like at a

396
00:22:42.240 --> 00:22:45.839
Pride event, if you are not yourself a member of

397
00:22:45.880 --> 00:22:49.200
the LGBTQ plus community, you can go to a pride event.

398
00:22:49.240 --> 00:22:51.400
You can be invited in, you can interact with folks,

399
00:22:51.440 --> 00:22:54.039
you can learn from, you can maybe take from, you

400
00:22:54.039 --> 00:22:58.160
can take a piece back home with you. You can celebrate alongside,

401
00:22:58.200 --> 00:23:01.480
you can engage in rituals, you can get engage in memorials,

402
00:23:01.519 --> 00:23:04.480
you can engage in all sorts of things. But then

403
00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:08.160
when you leave, you or either while you're there or

404
00:23:08.160 --> 00:23:10.160
when you leave, you need to always remember that that

405
00:23:10.279 --> 00:23:15.519
is still not yours. Your comfort and your safety and

406
00:23:15.559 --> 00:23:19.359
your personal needs and wants and desires are not central

407
00:23:19.480 --> 00:23:23.640
in that space. And when people come into spaces that

408
00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:27.079
are not theirs, and these are pre existing spaces that

409
00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:30.160
exist and work and function by the rules of that

410
00:23:30.200 --> 00:23:34.319
particular marginalized or oppressed community, people with privileged tend to

411
00:23:34.319 --> 00:23:36.519
come in and want to make it about them and

412
00:23:36.680 --> 00:23:39.160
their safety in the book about the fact that you know,

413
00:23:39.240 --> 00:23:42.680
you might see something that makes you uncomfortable. You know,

414
00:23:42.759 --> 00:23:46.240
these days, drag makes a whole lot of people uncomfortable

415
00:23:46.240 --> 00:23:48.319
for some strange reason, despite the fact that we have

416
00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:50.799
been putting it on our TVs and movies and stuff

417
00:23:50.839 --> 00:23:53.279
for many, many decades, and everybody laughed along and gave

418
00:23:53.359 --> 00:23:55.559
people oscars for it and stuff. But all of a sudden,

419
00:23:55.599 --> 00:23:57.599
it's terrible and we need to save our children from it.

420
00:23:57.640 --> 00:24:00.119
But you know, you might see somebody in drag, might

421
00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:02.039
see somebody in something you don't like. You might hear

422
00:24:02.160 --> 00:24:05.559
words that you don't like, and in the wrong circumstances,

423
00:24:05.640 --> 00:24:08.240
you might want to call the police, or you might,

424
00:24:08.759 --> 00:24:11.279
you know, want to seek something that makes you feel safe,

425
00:24:11.480 --> 00:24:14.359
but you seeking the power structures that make you feel

426
00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:18.559
safe might be putting that person in danger, and you

427
00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:22.119
asserting your control and your dominance in a space that

428
00:24:22.200 --> 00:24:25.559
is not made for you inherently puts those people in

429
00:24:25.720 --> 00:24:30.079
very real danger. Or you know, you voting in a

430
00:24:30.119 --> 00:24:35.359
way that is antithetical to these people's life and liberty

431
00:24:35.640 --> 00:24:40.400
and freedoms and stuff, even though nothing that is granted

432
00:24:40.440 --> 00:24:42.960
to them affects your life negatively in any way you

433
00:24:43.000 --> 00:24:46.440
know you asserting your dominion and command over them is

434
00:24:46.920 --> 00:24:53.240
causing harm. Or sometimes there are windows into a culture

435
00:24:53.839 --> 00:24:57.640
you're not invited in, you're not able to go in.

436
00:24:57.680 --> 00:25:00.720
And I saw this the other day on line where

437
00:25:01.079 --> 00:25:04.559
a person was sharing a video from I don't actually

438
00:25:04.640 --> 00:25:07.799
know the culture. The people in the video were black,

439
00:25:07.839 --> 00:25:11.480
and they were doing some kind of spiritual ritual. And

440
00:25:11.519 --> 00:25:13.160
then the person was sharing it and saying, well, I

441
00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:15.160
want to know what's involved in this ritual. I want

442
00:25:15.160 --> 00:25:16.759
to know what's under this mask. I want to know

443
00:25:17.400 --> 00:25:19.960
why you all are doing it this way. And then

444
00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:23.440
somebody seemingly from within that community responded back and said,

445
00:25:23.599 --> 00:25:26.599
this is not actually yours to know. You're welcome to

446
00:25:26.640 --> 00:25:29.079
watch the video, you're welcome to enjoy the video, but

447
00:25:29.680 --> 00:25:33.119
what is actually going on, like the actual components of

448
00:25:33.160 --> 00:25:35.599
what makes this ritual and why we do this ritual

449
00:25:35.640 --> 00:25:37.880
and stuff. You don't get to know all of that.

450
00:25:37.880 --> 00:25:40.519
That's partly for us. Well, then why is the video

451
00:25:40.559 --> 00:25:42.720
on the internet. Okay, Well, that's a window. That is

452
00:25:42.759 --> 00:25:44.799
a window from which to learn, that is a window

453
00:25:44.839 --> 00:25:46.920
from which to explore. You can see a lot of

454
00:25:46.960 --> 00:25:49.680
things through a window, but you're not necessarily invited in.

455
00:25:51.000 --> 00:25:54.400
It's not a gate, you're not welcome in. We are

456
00:25:54.440 --> 00:25:56.359
showing you a piece of our culture. We are showing

457
00:25:56.400 --> 00:25:58.319
you a piece of this but that is not yours

458
00:25:58.319 --> 00:26:01.319
to take, That is not yours to decide that you

459
00:26:01.400 --> 00:26:03.880
own in any kind of way. You just get to watch.

460
00:26:04.720 --> 00:26:07.359
When you talk about gates and windows, it's always important

461
00:26:07.359 --> 00:26:09.799
to remember that the people in control, the people operating

462
00:26:09.799 --> 00:26:11.920
the gate, the people that are deciding whether or not

463
00:26:11.960 --> 00:26:13.720
something is a gate or a window, are the people

464
00:26:13.720 --> 00:26:16.519
from the community of themselves, and it should always be

465
00:26:16.640 --> 00:26:19.480
that way. You don't get to decide, well, you put

466
00:26:19.519 --> 00:26:22.240
it on the internet, so it's mine now. And those

467
00:26:22.279 --> 00:26:25.039
are really the kinds of conversations that we're having. And

468
00:26:25.279 --> 00:26:29.079
the more that people get on this kind of dabbler

469
00:26:29.240 --> 00:26:32.839
path of spiritual but not religious, of spiritual exploration, of

470
00:26:32.920 --> 00:26:37.920
kind of exploring and interrogating the world around them, the

471
00:26:37.960 --> 00:26:41.319
more that they begin to ask these kinds of questions

472
00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:45.359
about power and control and ownership and what is right

473
00:26:45.480 --> 00:26:48.279
and what is mine and what isn't mine. I think

474
00:26:48.279 --> 00:26:51.240
that's kind of the crux of the book, is that

475
00:26:51.279 --> 00:26:57.480
we're starting to live a life that is informed by

476
00:26:57.519 --> 00:27:00.920
all aspects. We're not having to check our intellect at

477
00:27:00.920 --> 00:27:03.119
the door, We're not having to check pieces of ourself

478
00:27:03.160 --> 00:27:05.640
at the door in order to be a spiritual person.

479
00:27:06.240 --> 00:27:09.720
I talk later on in the book about things like,

480
00:27:10.519 --> 00:27:14.079
you know, rocks in the crystal industry, plants and stuff

481
00:27:14.119 --> 00:27:16.440
like that, And there's a whole lot of information out

482
00:27:16.480 --> 00:27:23.119
there that's sold as spirituality, religion, as a magical practice,

483
00:27:23.200 --> 00:27:28.359
or something that is very potentially harmful, very very very harmful.

484
00:27:28.680 --> 00:27:31.799
Not only is the crystal mining industry a very harmful

485
00:27:31.839 --> 00:27:35.319
thing to support in many cases, but many of the

486
00:27:35.359 --> 00:27:38.079
plants and stuff that you're told to use and the

487
00:27:38.079 --> 00:27:41.079
way that you're told to use them can be quite dangerous.

488
00:27:41.319 --> 00:27:44.000
And since this advice is coming to you in the

489
00:27:44.000 --> 00:27:46.759
form of books that are sold as religious practice, none

490
00:27:46.799 --> 00:27:50.079
of that has to be vetted by a doctor or

491
00:27:50.160 --> 00:27:53.880
any kind of science editor or anything like that. So

492
00:27:54.000 --> 00:27:55.920
you know, you have a lot of bad information going

493
00:27:55.920 --> 00:27:58.960
out there. And I go over a number of examples

494
00:27:59.680 --> 00:28:01.960
in the book. One of the big ones is that

495
00:28:02.119 --> 00:28:05.880
I like to talk about is the crystal lapidolite. Lapidolite

496
00:28:06.640 --> 00:28:09.480
is said to be a fantastic stone that can help

497
00:28:09.559 --> 00:28:16.559
you ease the burdens of depression lapidolite and what often

498
00:28:16.640 --> 00:28:19.440
goes and said in those sections of the book when

499
00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:21.599
it's saying, oh, you should and I have I have

500
00:28:21.680 --> 00:28:24.000
seen books, I've read books, I own books where it

501
00:28:24.039 --> 00:28:26.960
tells you to put lapidolite in your drinking water, where

502
00:28:26.960 --> 00:28:28.839
it tells you to stick it in your bottle of

503
00:28:28.839 --> 00:28:30.880
water and make it alixir out of it and drink that,

504
00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:33.119
which is just stick the rock in some water and

505
00:28:33.160 --> 00:28:36.799
then drink it, or you know, put it in your

506
00:28:36.799 --> 00:28:39.640
food as it's cooking, or put it sometimes put rocks

507
00:28:39.680 --> 00:28:44.640
inside of you in certain places. Yeah, yeah, yep. The

508
00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:48.279
problem with that is that the folks writing these books

509
00:28:48.319 --> 00:28:54.160
are very often not geologists or biochemists or anything like that.

510
00:28:54.319 --> 00:28:58.759
They're crystal enthusiasts. And what they tend to miss is

511
00:28:58.799 --> 00:29:02.200
the fact that the reason lepidolite is associated with an

512
00:29:02.839 --> 00:29:10.039
antidepressants is because it's made of lithium. It's made of lithium,

513
00:29:10.640 --> 00:29:16.240
which which might mean something to one, No, two disclose,

514
00:29:16.720 --> 00:29:20.000
and three maybe talk to your doctor before you stick

515
00:29:20.039 --> 00:29:24.599
it in your drinking water, because the lapidolite isn't just lithium,

516
00:29:24.680 --> 00:29:29.119
it's lithium and other things like caesium and rubidium which

517
00:29:29.200 --> 00:29:33.200
go boom when exposed to water. Right, So maybe don't

518
00:29:33.240 --> 00:29:35.240
like crush it up and stick it in water, or

519
00:29:35.279 --> 00:29:38.880
don't don't don't just do that. And the other thing

520
00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:41.799
about putting like raw rock in your water is even

521
00:29:41.799 --> 00:29:44.160
if you think you've cleaned it, there's all these like

522
00:29:44.279 --> 00:29:47.519
crags and grooves and stuff that you just can't get

523
00:29:47.559 --> 00:29:51.160
to that could have all sorts of harmful bacteria and

524
00:29:51.200 --> 00:29:53.160
all sorts of other things in it. That's like, I

525
00:29:53.200 --> 00:29:57.759
have talked to dozens and dozens and dozens of people

526
00:29:57.799 --> 00:30:03.240
who are spiritual who do consider themselves witches or spiritual

527
00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:06.039
practitioners that use crystals in their work, that are also

528
00:30:06.079 --> 00:30:10.599
geologists and geophysicists, and folks that I actually do this

529
00:30:10.720 --> 00:30:13.559
stuff for real, for real, for real and are like

530
00:30:13.640 --> 00:30:16.680
do I would not put a single solitary rock of

531
00:30:16.720 --> 00:30:19.119
any I don't care how polished you think it is.

532
00:30:19.480 --> 00:30:21.000
I would not put a single bit of that in

533
00:30:21.039 --> 00:30:22.680
anything that is going to go inside of my body,

534
00:30:23.359 --> 00:30:24.000
not any of it.

535
00:30:28.640 --> 00:30:31.960
I hope that you're enjoying this conversation and realizing the

536
00:30:31.960 --> 00:30:34.880
benefits of positivity in your own life. If you are

537
00:30:35.000 --> 00:30:37.720
enjoying the show, Please be sure to like and subscribe

538
00:30:37.720 --> 00:30:40.079
so that you get notified when you EPs drop and

539
00:30:40.160 --> 00:30:42.599
head on over to Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen

540
00:30:42.640 --> 00:30:51.599
and leave us a rating and review. This is why

541
00:30:51.640 --> 00:30:53.920
I find you so interesting to talk to you, because

542
00:30:54.079 --> 00:30:56.400
you're into the magic, You're into the crystals.

543
00:30:56.480 --> 00:30:58.400
Oh sure you are fling on.

544
00:30:58.359 --> 00:31:00.960
Board with it, but you you come at it with

545
00:31:01.000 --> 00:31:03.680
this like scientific skeptical.

546
00:31:03.400 --> 00:31:06.920
Brain that essescially what you know like that. I think

547
00:31:07.119 --> 00:31:07.799
there needs to be.

548
00:31:07.759 --> 00:31:10.240
More of these well, because I think, and what I

549
00:31:10.240 --> 00:31:12.079
tell my readers and listeners all the time is that

550
00:31:12.160 --> 00:31:14.480
why is always a much more valuable question than what

551
00:31:15.359 --> 00:31:19.039
and listen, there are times sure I feel powerless or

552
00:31:19.079 --> 00:31:20.759
I want to put a little bit more control back

553
00:31:20.759 --> 00:31:22.559
into my life, and yeah, I'm going to light a candle.

554
00:31:22.680 --> 00:31:25.680
Maybe I might carry some rocks with me, I might

555
00:31:25.720 --> 00:31:28.799
do some rituals and stuff. What is that doing? Is

556
00:31:28.839 --> 00:31:31.640
that the same is just me just sitting quietly and meditating,

557
00:31:31.680 --> 00:31:34.279
like you know that other people might meditate or have

558
00:31:34.440 --> 00:31:36.880
mantras that they say or something like that, and maybe

559
00:31:36.920 --> 00:31:38.839
for me that's just doing the same thing. Maybe it's

560
00:31:38.880 --> 00:31:43.599
all just psychology. Maybe it's psychology and the placebo effect

561
00:31:43.640 --> 00:31:46.039
and all of that as long as I'm not doing

562
00:31:46.039 --> 00:31:48.480
something that hurts myself or somebody else and I get

563
00:31:48.480 --> 00:31:51.720
the same result. Okay, but at least I know that.

564
00:31:52.400 --> 00:31:54.400
Or maybe I'm doing some great work of magic, and

565
00:31:54.400 --> 00:31:58.400
maybe I'm this powerful sorcerer that is, you know, bending

566
00:31:58.440 --> 00:32:03.440
reality and events to my will, and I can put

567
00:32:03.519 --> 00:32:06.200
my thumb on fate, and maybe that's what I'm doing.

568
00:32:06.640 --> 00:32:10.160
But I think that it's important to always keep that

569
00:32:10.240 --> 00:32:13.720
kind of skeptical why behind the what mindset, because this

570
00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:18.039
kind of world can very quickly devolve into frauds and

571
00:32:18.079 --> 00:32:26.319
scams and schemes and people promising you incredibly incredibly kind

572
00:32:26.359 --> 00:32:30.599
of terrible things like get You scratch the surface of

573
00:32:30.680 --> 00:32:33.640
like the law of attraction community, and you find a

574
00:32:33.640 --> 00:32:37.240
whole lot of victim blaming. You find a whole lot

575
00:32:37.279 --> 00:32:40.079
of people that you know tell you that the reason

576
00:32:40.079 --> 00:32:42.480
that you're sick or that you have cancer, or that

577
00:32:42.559 --> 00:32:44.359
you're poor, that you're living on the street or something

578
00:32:44.400 --> 00:32:46.960
is that you're just not thinking happy enough thoughts. Yeah.

579
00:32:47.000 --> 00:32:50.799
I don't think that's true. Yeah, And I think people

580
00:32:50.799 --> 00:32:53.680
that think that are bad people that need to go

581
00:32:53.720 --> 00:32:55.720
to therapy and drink some water and find some grass

582
00:32:55.759 --> 00:32:56.519
somewhere to touch.

583
00:32:58.480 --> 00:32:59.599
Yeah, I get that, and.

584
00:33:01.480 --> 00:33:04.200
I get that at the same time I also get

585
00:33:04.400 --> 00:33:07.440
that like I'm a positive psychologist, like there is actually

586
00:33:07.519 --> 00:33:11.680
something to be said for intentionally focusing on what is

587
00:33:11.880 --> 00:33:14.680
positive and what is good and going well.

588
00:33:14.720 --> 00:33:17.839
That sure is, yeah, but there's all the psychology like

589
00:33:18.079 --> 00:33:20.799
if I just if I am in a bad mood,

590
00:33:21.400 --> 00:33:24.200
if I am in a toxic little anxiety spiral, and

591
00:33:24.279 --> 00:33:28.359
I force my face to smile, if I force myself

592
00:33:28.400 --> 00:33:30.960
to do if I stand and wonder woman pose and

593
00:33:31.000 --> 00:33:34.119
force myself to smile. I hate it, but it does

594
00:33:34.119 --> 00:33:35.079
make you feel a little better.

595
00:33:35.160 --> 00:33:37.079
It actually works. It actually it does.

596
00:33:37.799 --> 00:33:41.720
And I actually did a whole episode on my podcast

597
00:33:42.000 --> 00:33:45.200
about can we stop calling all positivity toxic positivity?

598
00:33:45.240 --> 00:33:46.599
Because it's not all toxic.

599
00:33:46.680 --> 00:33:49.160
I feel like sometimes the pendulum swung the other way,

600
00:33:49.160 --> 00:33:53.000
where anytime somebody encourages you to God forbid, look on

601
00:33:53.000 --> 00:33:57.319
the bright side or attempt to find some meaning in

602
00:33:57.400 --> 00:34:01.599
something in some pain, then there used of toxic positivity

603
00:34:02.160 --> 00:34:05.880
when that's actually not that's actually kind of helpful advice.

604
00:34:05.920 --> 00:34:08.400
But that's a whole other conversation. But you're right, there

605
00:34:08.440 --> 00:34:09.000
are people.

606
00:34:08.760 --> 00:34:12.920
Comming to positivity is absolutely something that just purveyed some

607
00:34:13.079 --> 00:34:15.400
of this, especially once you geto the law attraction community,

608
00:34:15.400 --> 00:34:19.719
because it's like, Okay, there is a difference between working

609
00:34:19.760 --> 00:34:22.320
through grief and trying to find some good in it.

610
00:34:22.400 --> 00:34:26.639
You know, there's I'm currently writing a book about death

611
00:34:26.679 --> 00:34:29.960
that's not any kind of secret and talking to death

612
00:34:30.079 --> 00:34:34.400
duelas and death researchers and death workers. It's like, well,

613
00:34:35.480 --> 00:34:37.800
part of the strange work that we do and part

614
00:34:37.840 --> 00:34:41.159
of the strange realization that we've come to is that

615
00:34:41.679 --> 00:34:44.960
there's all sorts of reactions to somebody dying or somebody

616
00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:48.119
having like a horrible death, and once the death finally comes,

617
00:34:48.760 --> 00:34:52.639
you'll see people laugh. So you'll see people have this

618
00:34:52.760 --> 00:34:58.519
great relief, they will feel joy. They're grieving, they're sad,

619
00:34:58.639 --> 00:35:01.079
but there's also joy some times in it. I mean,

620
00:35:01.320 --> 00:35:06.880
there's just there's a difference between finding joy, finding goodness,

621
00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:12.239
finding bits and pieces of ways to be positive and

622
00:35:12.280 --> 00:35:15.239
move on and you must be happy about everything that

623
00:35:15.280 --> 00:35:18.159
happens to you all the time forever. Those are very

624
00:35:18.159 --> 00:35:18.880
different things.

625
00:35:18.719 --> 00:35:24.039
Very different things, very different things. Yeah, totally agree. And

626
00:35:24.280 --> 00:35:26.639
also when you were talking before about if I carry

627
00:35:26.679 --> 00:35:28.519
this rock and I get the job, is it because

628
00:35:28.519 --> 00:35:29.320
I was carrying the rock?

629
00:35:29.400 --> 00:35:31.119
Or is it because I was applying for a lot

630
00:35:31.159 --> 00:35:31.639
of jobs.

631
00:35:32.599 --> 00:35:36.159
I consider myself to be like I Like I've said before,

632
00:35:36.199 --> 00:35:39.559
I'm a spiritual person, and I focus on coincidences.

633
00:35:40.119 --> 00:35:41.559
And the more I focus on.

634
00:35:41.639 --> 00:35:45.239
The coincidences and the synchronicities and the little serendipitous moments

635
00:35:45.239 --> 00:35:47.840
I've just had one happen today, then the more they

636
00:35:47.880 --> 00:35:51.199
seem to happen. Is it miracles? Is it magic? Or

637
00:35:51.360 --> 00:35:53.559
you know, is it I think there is. I think

638
00:35:53.599 --> 00:35:55.000
there is a little bit of a magic to that

639
00:35:55.559 --> 00:35:58.559
I fully believe. But also it's where I'm putting my attention,

640
00:35:59.239 --> 00:36:00.360
you know, perc.

641
00:36:00.519 --> 00:36:02.639
I mean, yeah, there's a little bit of the Barnum

642
00:36:02.639 --> 00:36:05.320
effect there, There's a little bit of the polyanna principle there.

643
00:36:05.880 --> 00:36:08.760
But there's there's also I mean, you know, the dumbos

644
00:36:08.760 --> 00:36:13.760
feather argument. Could could he have flown all along? Technically yes,

645
00:36:14.760 --> 00:36:19.320
would he have flown without the feather? Now, I think

646
00:36:19.360 --> 00:36:21.159
we all know that elephant would have stayed on the

647
00:36:21.159 --> 00:36:23.199
ground if he hadn't had the feather and been told

648
00:36:23.199 --> 00:36:26.639
that he could. So sometimes you need that. Sometimes you

649
00:36:26.719 --> 00:36:28.840
need that the Sometimes you need to be told that

650
00:36:28.880 --> 00:36:30.880
you can do the impossible in order to do it.

651
00:36:31.360 --> 00:36:34.840
But also, I mean, even if this is all just psychology,

652
00:36:34.880 --> 00:36:38.039
you're kind of gamifying your life, and like you're talking

653
00:36:38.039 --> 00:36:40.800
about the you know, oh, I'm if I'm doing a

654
00:36:40.800 --> 00:36:42.800
bunch of applications and I start to get feedback and

655
00:36:42.840 --> 00:36:46.800
I then it becomes this really positive feedback loop where

656
00:36:46.880 --> 00:36:49.599
I've gotten positive reinforcement. So I'm going to keep you know,

657
00:36:49.840 --> 00:36:52.400
maybe today I'll do ten instead of just one, because

658
00:36:52.400 --> 00:36:55.599
I really liked the positive feedback of you know, oh,

659
00:36:55.639 --> 00:36:57.800
this thing that I wanted came true, So I'm going

660
00:36:57.840 --> 00:37:00.719
to keep doing that. Of course, where where the magical

661
00:37:00.719 --> 00:37:03.840
thinking goes wrong is thinking I'm just going to light

662
00:37:03.880 --> 00:37:06.599
this green candle. I'm just going to carry this rock,

663
00:37:06.639 --> 00:37:08.440
and I'm just going to wait for somebody to run

664
00:37:08.559 --> 00:37:09.480
up to me with a job.

665
00:37:10.119 --> 00:37:11.800
Yes, yes, exactly.

666
00:37:12.239 --> 00:37:15.559
Can we talk about spells for a minute, sure, and

667
00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:17.840
then I'll have to wrap it up soon. So a

668
00:37:17.840 --> 00:37:22.159
big part of witchcraft is the casting of spells. How

669
00:37:22.199 --> 00:37:26.599
does that work in the modern world? What is this

670
00:37:26.800 --> 00:37:27.960
entil in the modern world?

671
00:37:28.480 --> 00:37:31.559
So the way that I do it in my book,

672
00:37:32.000 --> 00:37:34.760
I wrote out so every little book you ever pick

673
00:37:34.840 --> 00:37:36.800
up on witchcraft is going to have a whole section

674
00:37:36.840 --> 00:37:41.360
of spells, yes, yeap. And usually this ends up being

675
00:37:41.440 --> 00:37:44.079
a two hundred page book where like the first fifty

676
00:37:44.119 --> 00:37:47.119
pages are theory and it's usually rehashed from a lot

677
00:37:47.119 --> 00:37:48.360
of other books that you've read, and then it's just

678
00:37:48.400 --> 00:37:50.360
one hundred and fifty pages of spells and it's light

679
00:37:50.400 --> 00:37:53.239
this candle and say these words and do all this stuff.

680
00:37:53.239 --> 00:37:55.920
And I don't do any of that. And in my book,

681
00:37:55.960 --> 00:37:57.639
I do still have spells in my book. I call

682
00:37:57.679 --> 00:37:59.880
them spell canvases. They're in the back of the book,

683
00:38:00.519 --> 00:38:04.000
and they're the way that I see other people doing magic.

684
00:38:04.280 --> 00:38:06.400
And it's using stuff that you probably already have in

685
00:38:06.440 --> 00:38:09.599
your home. It's telling you don't go out and buy anything.

686
00:38:09.639 --> 00:38:11.960
You don't need to go buy special rocks or special

687
00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:14.159
tools or special things to burn or anything like that.

688
00:38:14.199 --> 00:38:15.719
You can do everything that you want to do with

689
00:38:15.760 --> 00:38:18.800
whatever is already in your home. It already exists. It's

690
00:38:18.880 --> 00:38:21.960
very non capitalist, but it's giving you a way to

691
00:38:22.800 --> 00:38:26.039
create a ritual for yourself, create a spell for yourself

692
00:38:26.039 --> 00:38:29.039
that does pretty much whatever it is that you are

693
00:38:29.079 --> 00:38:32.880
looking to do. Because that's how that's how practitioners that

694
00:38:32.920 --> 00:38:36.360
I know, actually operate instead of buy the book because

695
00:38:36.440 --> 00:38:39.960
kind of once you understand the function of the different

696
00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:43.599
mechanics of magic and what they're doing and why they're

697
00:38:43.639 --> 00:38:46.960
doing those things, you can pretty much just make stuff

698
00:38:47.039 --> 00:38:50.800
up from there. You can start throwing your stuff into

699
00:38:50.800 --> 00:38:53.280
a cauldron because you know why you're doing it. But

700
00:38:53.320 --> 00:38:55.119
I mean that's the same with anything, because you know,

701
00:38:55.199 --> 00:38:58.360
once once you have the basic skills of carpentry down,

702
00:38:58.440 --> 00:39:00.239
suddenly you can kind of break them. You can do

703
00:39:00.280 --> 00:39:02.840
whatever you want with them. Right, So I will give

704
00:39:02.880 --> 00:39:06.480
you kind of a format. Oh, like, one of my

705
00:39:06.559 --> 00:39:08.760
favorite ones, the first one that I put in the book,

706
00:39:08.760 --> 00:39:09.840
the one that I knew I was going to put

707
00:39:09.840 --> 00:39:12.800
in the book, was a little tea bag spell of Release.

708
00:39:13.559 --> 00:39:16.239
It's my favorite thing, and I got it from a

709
00:39:16.239 --> 00:39:19.800
little science demonstration a million years ago. But I was

710
00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:22.719
everything that I put in the book looks like magic,

711
00:39:23.320 --> 00:39:25.559
And I personally think that spells are a lot more

712
00:39:25.559 --> 00:39:28.880
fun to do when they look like magic, because that's

713
00:39:29.199 --> 00:39:33.039
that's more fun for me personally. So you know, you

714
00:39:33.079 --> 00:39:35.880
take a tea bag and you cut it lengthwise, and

715
00:39:35.920 --> 00:39:38.119
you unless you're using those fancy tea bags that you

716
00:39:38.159 --> 00:39:40.599
all use in London. You might have the fancy see

717
00:39:40.639 --> 00:39:42.440
I have the cheap tea bags that you unfold it

718
00:39:42.440 --> 00:39:43.320
turns into a tube.

719
00:39:43.920 --> 00:39:46.559
But then you explain that how does your tea bags work?

720
00:39:47.559 --> 00:39:48.480
You have a little.

721
00:39:48.639 --> 00:39:50.679
String and can show you.

722
00:39:50.800 --> 00:39:53.079
Yes, please, it's a podcast. Nobody else can see it,

723
00:39:53.119 --> 00:39:57.400
but I can see you're going to do the demonstration

724
00:39:57.519 --> 00:39:57.800
for me.

725
00:39:58.519 --> 00:40:08.000
Yes, right now, it's very fun. Okay, here he is,

726
00:40:08.320 --> 00:40:12.800
I'm back. Okay, okay, So you know you have your

727
00:40:12.800 --> 00:40:13.440
little tea bag.

728
00:40:13.920 --> 00:40:15.400
Yeah, okay, that's like my tea bag.

729
00:40:15.480 --> 00:40:19.199
Yep, yeah, okay, yep. So what I do, and I

730
00:40:19.280 --> 00:40:20.920
like to tell people, you know, use a kind of

731
00:40:20.960 --> 00:40:24.559
tea that associates with your purpose. So if you're wanting

732
00:40:24.599 --> 00:40:27.239
to release something because you need some peace about something,

733
00:40:27.320 --> 00:40:29.679
then maybe get a tea bag that's filled with tea

734
00:40:29.719 --> 00:40:32.039
that makes you feel very calm or something. Maybe we'll

735
00:40:32.079 --> 00:40:34.000
get a Canon Mile tea or something like that. I

736
00:40:34.159 --> 00:40:37.000
just used my Nearest and Dearest chi bag. So you

737
00:40:37.039 --> 00:40:39.920
kud it like this, You cut it lengthwise right, Oh yeah, right,

738
00:40:40.159 --> 00:40:42.559
throw that bit away, dump the tea out. Okay, so

739
00:40:42.599 --> 00:40:44.079
now you have this, you have a little.

740
00:40:43.800 --> 00:40:46.440
Two b Yes, you've just emptied the tea bag.

741
00:40:46.920 --> 00:40:50.239
Yep. So then you you can either use it just

742
00:40:50.280 --> 00:40:52.119
like this, or you can write something you want to

743
00:40:52.159 --> 00:40:57.119
get rid of, like you know, write your excess name

744
00:40:57.159 --> 00:40:58.840
on it or something like that, you know, just be

745
00:40:58.920 --> 00:41:03.960
real petty about it. Then then then okay, okay, you

746
00:41:04.039 --> 00:41:06.920
turn it into a little too b. Now Here you

747
00:41:06.960 --> 00:41:09.440
can say if you want to say words, say say

748
00:41:09.480 --> 00:41:12.159
we are dealing with an X, and you just start

749
00:41:12.239 --> 00:41:14.800
just cussing his name out right. You just really just

750
00:41:14.840 --> 00:41:17.159
get going and be like, I hate you, I never

751
00:41:17.159 --> 00:41:18.880
want to see you again, you know, blah blah blah

752
00:41:18.880 --> 00:41:19.239
blah blah.

753
00:41:19.400 --> 00:41:20.760
Good a friend who's gonna love this? I want to

754
00:41:20.760 --> 00:41:21.000
show you.

755
00:41:21.079 --> 00:41:23.599
Yeah, then you light it on fire, Oh my god,

756
00:41:23.960 --> 00:41:26.519
and it's gonna fly. Oh wait, no, oh we didn't

757
00:41:26.519 --> 00:41:29.079
do it. Oh wait, Oh oh it fell? Oh it fell.

758
00:41:29.199 --> 00:41:29.960
Oh we didn't do it.

759
00:41:30.079 --> 00:41:30.800
I didn't do it.

760
00:41:30.920 --> 00:41:32.280
Oh it didn't do it. Oh it fell.

761
00:41:33.079 --> 00:41:33.519
I'm marriage.

762
00:41:33.519 --> 00:41:35.320
You're going to burn your desk. No, I'm not.

763
00:41:35.840 --> 00:41:40.119
These things burn clean. That's why you use them. Ah, yeah,

764
00:41:40.239 --> 00:41:43.599
they don't. They don't catch other don't do the things.

765
00:41:43.920 --> 00:41:45.639
You're good not good tip.

766
00:41:46.119 --> 00:41:48.719
Yeah, so you always have to cut it really flat.

767
00:41:48.760 --> 00:41:50.519
I always tell people make sure you cut it really

768
00:41:50.559 --> 00:41:53.719
flat so you get like a good standing surface. Okay, see,

769
00:41:53.760 --> 00:41:55.840
and sometimes stuff just doesn't work. And then you have

770
00:41:55.880 --> 00:41:58.400
people online that are like, oh, it fell because the

771
00:41:58.440 --> 00:42:00.639
spirits didn't want that to happen. I'm like, no, it

772
00:42:00.679 --> 00:42:03.880
fell because I'm standing it on an uneven wooden plank.

773
00:42:04.199 --> 00:42:05.960
Yeah.

774
00:42:06.159 --> 00:42:08.880
Okay, So we're we're cussing out Todd and we're saying

775
00:42:08.960 --> 00:42:12.159
terrible things about them, and we're like, f you, Todd, YadA, YadA, YadA, YadA,

776
00:42:12.239 --> 00:42:14.760
and then oh here we go. Okay, Well, if it's

777
00:42:14.760 --> 00:42:18.400
on a flat surface, it flies. I'm on a piece

778
00:42:18.440 --> 00:42:21.159
of wood right now. They fly. But if you do

779
00:42:21.199 --> 00:42:23.599
it in your kitchen counter, it will fly, I promise, And.

780
00:42:23.559 --> 00:42:26.079
I'm not going to burn my kitchen. Canna trust you

781
00:42:26.119 --> 00:42:26.320
on that.

782
00:42:26.519 --> 00:42:29.239
No, they fly, It burns clean the little fabric that

783
00:42:29.280 --> 00:42:30.960
the tea bag is made out of. Do it. I

784
00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:33.840
promise it works. Yeah, I flies.

785
00:42:33.880 --> 00:42:35.440
Very cool. I'm going to do it and all that.

786
00:42:35.519 --> 00:42:37.639
Yeah they fly. I've done a ton of recordings on it,

787
00:42:37.679 --> 00:42:39.840
and I promise they fly. I do. It's just it

788
00:42:39.880 --> 00:42:41.920
has to it has to be on a perfectly flat

789
00:42:41.960 --> 00:42:45.760
surface because the fire is creating a vacuum that once

790
00:42:45.880 --> 00:42:49.079
the tea bag burns down, it creates this vacuum and

791
00:42:49.119 --> 00:42:51.840
sucks it up into the air. But when you're doing

792
00:42:51.880 --> 00:42:54.880
it on a on a jagged wooden surface like I

793
00:42:54.960 --> 00:42:56.519
just did, it won't do it because the air is

794
00:42:56.519 --> 00:42:57.519
pulling it from underneath.

795
00:42:58.280 --> 00:43:02.000
You're so sciencey even in your that I wouldn't have

796
00:43:02.039 --> 00:43:03.440
I would have just gone it didn't work.

797
00:43:04.079 --> 00:43:08.119
I didn't witchcraft and the spirits didn't want this to work.

798
00:43:08.280 --> 00:43:11.840
That's why the spirits didn't want this to work. I

799
00:43:11.880 --> 00:43:12.960
just did bad science.

800
00:43:14.159 --> 00:43:17.440
You. I am concerned that anybody listening to this podcast

801
00:43:17.480 --> 00:43:19.800
is going to think, well, you've just gone and debunked

802
00:43:19.800 --> 00:43:24.760
all of that witchy stuff. And I want to know,

803
00:43:25.320 --> 00:43:28.239
don like what does what is it about it for you?

804
00:43:28.320 --> 00:43:31.519
Like what does the witchy stuff do for you? How

805
00:43:31.559 --> 00:43:33.559
does it help you in your life?

806
00:43:33.719 --> 00:43:39.320
Like Witchcraft, spirituality, all all of it allows me a

807
00:43:39.400 --> 00:43:45.559
place to come to whenever I am feeling very troubled,

808
00:43:45.679 --> 00:43:48.599
like I don't have control over my own life. It's

809
00:43:48.599 --> 00:43:52.519
a place to feel very present. It's a place to

810
00:43:52.519 --> 00:43:54.719
to have some conversations with myself and the gods of

811
00:43:54.719 --> 00:43:57.880
my understanding, to kind of reorient and reevaluate my place

812
00:43:57.920 --> 00:44:00.280
in the universe and what that means. It helped to

813
00:44:00.280 --> 00:44:03.400
pull me through, you know, kind of an existential crisis,

814
00:44:03.440 --> 00:44:05.880
a dark knight of the soul where I just didn't know,

815
00:44:07.519 --> 00:44:09.000
you know, when I had a lot of problems about

816
00:44:09.320 --> 00:44:11.440
death and dying and a lot of questions that I

817
00:44:11.480 --> 00:44:14.559
had never interrogated about myself. And I just think that

818
00:44:15.519 --> 00:44:20.559
I'm not alone in that. It's just a place of,

819
00:44:21.239 --> 00:44:24.239
like I said, regaining control over the world around me

820
00:44:24.280 --> 00:44:27.119
whenever the world feels like it's spiraling out of control.

821
00:44:27.639 --> 00:44:31.480
And why it works, I don't know. I don't know.

822
00:44:31.760 --> 00:44:33.639
There's a lot of different reasons why. I just think

823
00:44:33.679 --> 00:44:37.320
it's important to interrogate those, to be aware of those,

824
00:44:37.400 --> 00:44:40.440
so that you know not to fall for scams, so

825
00:44:40.480 --> 00:44:43.119
that you know, so that there's no fear in it.

826
00:44:43.679 --> 00:44:45.519
That's why I talk about kind of the things that

827
00:44:45.559 --> 00:44:48.199
I do, because there's a lot of fear mongering in

828
00:44:48.239 --> 00:44:50.079
this space. There's a lot of people who are going

829
00:44:50.119 --> 00:44:51.719
to tell you, well, the reason that didn't work is

830
00:44:51.760 --> 00:44:54.599
because you're cursed, or you know what, the spirits are

831
00:44:54.639 --> 00:44:56.119
telling me that you're cursed. But if you pay me

832
00:44:56.119 --> 00:44:59.400
five hundred dollars. I can remove the curse for you exactly.

833
00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:02.679
That's a fraud of creating a problem that didn't exist

834
00:45:02.719 --> 00:45:05.280
five minutes ago. But I also have the solution, and

835
00:45:05.320 --> 00:45:08.360
you can only come to me for the solution. You know,

836
00:45:08.440 --> 00:45:11.960
so you're not susceptible to frauds and scams and schemes.

837
00:45:12.519 --> 00:45:17.119
But if you take all of that out, there's still

838
00:45:17.119 --> 00:45:23.159
something magical and valuable and wonderful about creating your own

839
00:45:23.199 --> 00:45:27.280
intentional spiritual path. That's the thing is that, sure, on

840
00:45:27.360 --> 00:45:29.400
its surface, there's a there's a way to read the

841
00:45:29.400 --> 00:45:31.960
book that reads like this is a book that's actually

842
00:45:32.000 --> 00:45:35.760
just debunking a bunch of stuff. But that doesn't seem

843
00:45:35.760 --> 00:45:37.800
to be what many many thousands of people around the

844
00:45:37.800 --> 00:45:40.760
world who read the book and loved the book came

845
00:45:40.760 --> 00:45:45.119
away thinking. They came away saying, oh, this this is

846
00:45:45.119 --> 00:45:48.159
a magical book. This is These are the conversations that

847
00:45:48.320 --> 00:45:50.719
people who've been doing this for ten years, for twenty

848
00:45:50.800 --> 00:45:53.679
years really kind of wish we're being said more often.

849
00:45:54.639 --> 00:45:56.320
You know, you're not going to summon a demon in

850
00:45:56.320 --> 00:45:58.320
your bedroom, at least not like what you think. You

851
00:45:58.360 --> 00:46:00.880
know you're not going to you know, some of these

852
00:46:00.920 --> 00:46:03.519
wild claims that you see from people online. That's not

853
00:46:03.559 --> 00:46:05.840
what's going to happen for you. That's just that's that's

854
00:46:05.960 --> 00:46:07.639
that those are things that people are making up for

855
00:46:07.719 --> 00:46:12.559
clicks and likes and downloads and stuff. But that doesn't

856
00:46:12.559 --> 00:46:15.079
mean that there isn't something of value here, And that

857
00:46:15.119 --> 00:46:17.199
doesn't mean that there isn't something you can't get out

858
00:46:17.199 --> 00:46:19.119
of this, and that doesn't mean that it doesn't work.

859
00:46:19.719 --> 00:46:22.119
The Great Terry Pratchett said that magic doesn't stop being

860
00:46:22.159 --> 00:46:24.599
magic just because you know how it works. Yeah.

861
00:46:25.440 --> 00:46:28.159
Yeah, I think the other important point that you made

862
00:46:28.199 --> 00:46:30.599
was you know, you've got these spell canvases and you

863
00:46:30.599 --> 00:46:32.880
can use anything in your own home. I think so

864
00:46:32.920 --> 00:46:35.079
many people get drawn into these ideas and they think

865
00:46:35.079 --> 00:46:38.039
they need the special candle and.

866
00:46:38.119 --> 00:46:41.199
Special crystals, and they need crystal. They need to spend

867
00:46:41.199 --> 00:46:43.960
fifty dollars on a crystal that's basically a pipe bomb

868
00:46:44.000 --> 00:46:46.039
because it's got you know, it's it's made with a

869
00:46:46.039 --> 00:46:47.800
bunch of dried herbs and stuff that as soon as

870
00:46:47.840 --> 00:46:49.599
you light that candle on fire, the whole thing is

871
00:46:49.599 --> 00:46:53.079
going to your house is going to explode. Yeah. People

872
00:46:53.119 --> 00:46:55.400
get really sold on the idea that in order to

873
00:46:56.360 --> 00:46:58.760
go on kind of a magical spiritual journey. You do

874
00:46:58.840 --> 00:47:01.039
have to go buy a lot of stuff, and I'm like,

875
00:47:01.199 --> 00:47:04.440
I haven't bought stuff in a very long time. I have.

876
00:47:07.119 --> 00:47:10.880
I really appreciate your time today. I actually am really

877
00:47:11.000 --> 00:47:13.719
enjoying the book. Oh thank you, No, I am. And

878
00:47:13.760 --> 00:47:16.679
it's very well written. It's I really appreciate the effort

879
00:47:16.679 --> 00:47:20.679
that you've gone to research and to talk to people

880
00:47:20.719 --> 00:47:23.599
who know what they're talking about to provide just a

881
00:47:23.679 --> 00:47:27.199
really intelligent and balanced perspective on.

882
00:47:27.199 --> 00:47:27.920
The whole Thank you.

883
00:47:28.519 --> 00:47:30.079
Yeah. I always think of it as a book that's

884
00:47:30.119 --> 00:47:33.480
not necessarily it might not necessarily be somebody's first book

885
00:47:33.599 --> 00:47:35.440
about the topic, but I hope that it's a book

886
00:47:35.440 --> 00:47:38.639
that can kind of help you read other books. It's

887
00:47:38.679 --> 00:47:41.840
a book that helps kind of teach some critical thinking skills,

888
00:47:41.840 --> 00:47:45.119
that helps you understand definitions, that helps you spot read flags,

889
00:47:45.719 --> 00:47:48.119
that helps you understand sort of the why behind the

890
00:47:48.119 --> 00:47:50.960
what of what other people are saying and why they're

891
00:47:51.000 --> 00:47:52.800
saying it this way, so that you can kind of

892
00:47:53.639 --> 00:47:55.599
figure out what it is that you believe and know

893
00:47:55.719 --> 00:47:59.440
how to go that those claims, know how to go

894
00:48:00.119 --> 00:48:03.960
find other resources as well to back up that claim

895
00:48:04.280 --> 00:48:06.159
before you just start thinking that I don't know Scott

896
00:48:06.159 --> 00:48:08.800
Cunningham knows everything because he's the first book that you read.

897
00:48:08.800 --> 00:48:10.679
Because you know, we all do that, right. You find

898
00:48:10.679 --> 00:48:13.559
a book, it becomes your new Bible, and you're just like, well,

899
00:48:13.599 --> 00:48:15.559
this person knows the secrets of the universe, and I'm like,

900
00:48:16.280 --> 00:48:18.079
nobody does. There's the fun secret.

901
00:48:19.719 --> 00:48:22.960
I'm going to point everybody to your Instagram page. Where

902
00:48:23.000 --> 00:48:26.000
else do you suggest that people go to follow you?

903
00:48:26.119 --> 00:48:28.880
Find you know what you're doing. Obviously you have your

904
00:48:28.880 --> 00:48:29.559
own podcast.

905
00:48:29.800 --> 00:48:30.679
I do plug.

906
00:48:30.880 --> 00:48:34.400
Yeah, yeah, So I have a podcast. It's called Head

907
00:48:34.480 --> 00:48:38.320
on Fire. It's a podcast where I talk to experts

908
00:48:38.360 --> 00:48:44.239
in overlooked or misunderstood fields, fields that either everybody kind

909
00:48:44.239 --> 00:48:46.440
of thinks they already know everything about or they've never

910
00:48:46.519 --> 00:48:51.159
considered before. So I always say that I asked the

911
00:48:51.239 --> 00:48:54.320
questions people didn't even know they wanted answers to. I'm

912
00:48:54.360 --> 00:48:58.239
an encourageable, curious person. You can also find me all

913
00:48:58.239 --> 00:49:03.000
over social media at head on firepod. I'm on tektok

914
00:49:03.039 --> 00:49:06.800
and Instagram and Twitter for what that's worth, So I'm

915
00:49:06.800 --> 00:49:07.679
everywhere you are.

916
00:49:09.480 --> 00:49:11.239
Thank you so much for your time today. This has

917
00:49:11.320 --> 00:49:12.360
been really fun.

918
00:49:12.920 --> 00:49:15.480
Thank you so much much. Cool.

919
00:49:17.199 --> 00:49:18.360
What a fascinating guy.

920
00:49:18.440 --> 00:49:20.440
If you love Don's energy, I recommend you go and

921
00:49:20.480 --> 00:49:24.199
watch his TikTok or his Instagram. Head on Firepod is

922
00:49:24.199 --> 00:49:26.960
his username on both of those platforms. His book comes

923
00:49:27.000 --> 00:49:29.440
highly recommended from me if you are looking to explore

924
00:49:29.480 --> 00:49:31.880
your own spirituality in a way that works for you

925
00:49:32.239 --> 00:49:35.920
without causing harm to others or the planet. And hey,

926
00:49:36.000 --> 00:49:40.239
listen that tea bag stunt should I say spell? It

927
00:49:40.280 --> 00:49:42.840
didn't quite work out while we were recording the interview,

928
00:49:42.920 --> 00:49:44.960
but Don did come back to me with a video

929
00:49:45.119 --> 00:49:47.280
showing me how it actually does work.

930
00:49:47.400 --> 00:49:48.519
It is very cool.

931
00:49:48.840 --> 00:49:52.559
It is a great visual which obviously doesn't translate particularly

932
00:49:52.599 --> 00:49:55.519
well to audio only, so the team has put together

933
00:49:55.679 --> 00:49:58.400
a hilarious video of the whole shebang. Be sure to

934
00:49:58.440 --> 00:50:02.800
follow me on Instagram or TI talk cas Done Underscore.

935
00:50:02.480 --> 00:50:05.679
XO to watch that video. It really is a laugh.

936
00:50:06.000 --> 00:50:08.199
If you want to check out Don's book, his podcast,

937
00:50:08.239 --> 00:50:10.480
his socials, check the show notes for details.

938
00:50:10.519 --> 00:50:12.480
Will have the links there for you, as.

939
00:50:12.360 --> 00:50:15.400
Well as links to my website and all my socials.

940
00:50:15.719 --> 00:50:17.800
I cannot wait to catch you on the next episode

941
00:50:17.840 --> 00:50:26.440
of Crappy to Happy Listener