Feb. 6, 2022

Fair Play: how to divvy up the domestic load (Eve Rodsky Part 1)

Fair Play: how to divvy up the domestic load (Eve Rodsky Part 1)
The player is loading ...
Fair Play: how to divvy up the domestic load (Eve Rodsky Part 1)
Fair Play: how to divvy up the domestic load (Eve Rodsky Part 1)
Apple Podcasts podcast player icon Spotify podcast player icon Castro podcast player icon PocketCasts podcast player icon Podchaser podcast player icon
Apple Podcasts podcast player icon Spotify podcast player icon Castro podcast player icon PocketCasts podcast player icon Podchaser podcast player icon
Season 7 Women's Health And Wellbeing Relationships

Cass talks with NYT best selling author, Eve Rodsky, whose unique system for gamifying and sharing the domestic workload has taken the world by storm. Women are exhausted and burnt out from carrying the weight of ‘invisible labour’ in most households but rather than accept the status quo, Eve applied her Harvard trained organisational management skills to create a solution to this age-old problem. The result is ‘Fair Play’, a structured process to split tasks fairly, reclaim your time and energy and reduce resentment and conflict.Connect with Eve:www.everodsky.com or www.fairplaylife.comBuy the Fair Play book: https://booktopia.kh4ffx.net/fairplaywww.instagram.com/fairplaylifewww.facebook.com/everodsky
Connect with Cass:www.crappytohappypod.comhello@crappytohappypod.com 
www.instagram.com/crappytohappypodwww.tiktok.com/crappytohappypod
Join the free 7-day Happiness Challenge:www.cassdunn.com/happiness

Connect with Cass:

www.cassdunn.com
www.instagram.com/cassdunn_xo

Contact Crappy to Happy:

Email: hello@crappytohappypod.com
www.crappytohappypod.com
www.instagram.com/crappytohappypod
www.tiktok.com/@crappytohappypod


Are you a coach, therapist, service provider or solopreneur struggling with self-doubt and imposter syndrome? I'd love to talk to you! (for market research purposes only!)

Book a call with me to share your experience.

Want more great content and less ads?

Upgrade to Paid in the Spotify or Apple podcasts App to get immediate access to "Beyond Happy", the subscriber only podcast featuring bonus content, meditations and more!

Transcript
WEBVTT

1
00:00:02.680 --> 00:00:03.960
A listener production.

2
00:00:08.080 --> 00:00:11.279
This is Crappita Happy and I am your host Castunn.

3
00:00:11.599 --> 00:00:15.279
I'm a clinical and coaching psychologist and mindfulness meditation teacher

4
00:00:15.359 --> 00:00:18.239
and of course author of the Crappita Happy books. In

5
00:00:18.280 --> 00:00:22.559
this show, I bring you conversations with interesting, inspiring, intelligent

6
00:00:22.600 --> 00:00:25.519
people who are experts in their field and who have

7
00:00:25.600 --> 00:00:27.920
something of value to share that will help you feel

8
00:00:28.120 --> 00:00:34.359
less crappy and more happy. Eve Rodsky is a Harvard

9
00:00:34.359 --> 00:00:38.600
trained organizational management consultant. She's a very successful career woman

10
00:00:38.880 --> 00:00:41.759
in a happy marriage with a loving husband who fully

11
00:00:41.880 --> 00:00:46.039
respects and supports her career in every way. After Eve

12
00:00:46.119 --> 00:00:48.840
and her husband had children, she found herself in the

13
00:00:48.840 --> 00:00:52.359
same situation that many of us do around the world.

14
00:00:52.840 --> 00:00:56.240
Women who are trying to maintain a career while also

15
00:00:56.320 --> 00:01:00.240
picking up the lion's share of the domestic load is

16
00:01:00.320 --> 00:01:04.280
like the mental load, the second shift, the invisible labor.

17
00:01:04.640 --> 00:01:07.840
These aren't new to us. Many of us know those

18
00:01:07.879 --> 00:01:11.079
experiences all too well. But rather than accept the status

19
00:01:11.120 --> 00:01:14.760
quo or walk out of her marriage, Eve decided that

20
00:01:14.840 --> 00:01:19.000
she could apply her organizational management skills to the problem,

21
00:01:19.400 --> 00:01:23.920
and she asked the simple but profound question, what would

22
00:01:23.959 --> 00:01:29.000
happen if we treated our homes as our most important organizations.

23
00:01:29.040 --> 00:01:33.079
The result was fair Play. Fair Play is a system

24
00:01:33.120 --> 00:01:35.439
that Eve has come up with. It is a time saving,

25
00:01:35.519 --> 00:01:40.480
anxiety saving system that offers couples a completely new way

26
00:01:40.920 --> 00:01:44.439
to divvy up domestic responsibilities. It became a New York

27
00:01:44.439 --> 00:01:47.239
Times best selling book. It was picked by Reese Witherspoon

28
00:01:47.239 --> 00:01:49.959
for the Hello Sunshine Book Club. And it's a card game.

29
00:01:50.000 --> 00:01:53.560
It is essentially a gamified life management system that will

30
00:01:53.599 --> 00:01:59.519
help couples rebalance domestic workload, reimagine their relationship, and it

31
00:01:59.599 --> 00:02:02.680
is truly genius in my opinion. I am so thrilled

32
00:02:02.680 --> 00:02:04.680
that Eve has agreed to do two interviews with me

33
00:02:04.760 --> 00:02:07.159
on the Crappy to Happy podcast, because after you have

34
00:02:07.280 --> 00:02:10.479
mastered the fair Play system to free up your time,

35
00:02:10.719 --> 00:02:14.240
I know that you will want to hear about Unicorn space,

36
00:02:14.280 --> 00:02:17.240
which is the term that Eve gives to that place

37
00:02:17.319 --> 00:02:21.919
where you can find your creative self expression and true fulfillment.

38
00:02:22.360 --> 00:02:28.319
But first let's talk about fair Play. Here's Eve, Eve Rodsky.

39
00:02:28.400 --> 00:02:30.360
It is such a pleasure to have you on the

40
00:02:30.400 --> 00:02:32.960
Crappy to Happy podcast. Thank you so much for making

41
00:02:33.039 --> 00:02:34.159
the time to be with us.

42
00:02:34.520 --> 00:02:36.639
Oh, thanks, Cas, I'm so happy to be here.

43
00:02:37.560 --> 00:02:41.039
Ev I first came across your work when I found

44
00:02:41.080 --> 00:02:44.439
your book Unicorn Space, Find Your Unicorn Space, which is

45
00:02:44.479 --> 00:02:47.639
about women cultivating their creative self expression in the world,

46
00:02:47.719 --> 00:02:50.240
which is a topic that I absolutely love. But what

47
00:02:50.280 --> 00:02:52.919
I soon realized was that this book came about on

48
00:02:53.000 --> 00:02:56.639
the back of some previous work you had done and

49
00:02:56.680 --> 00:02:59.360
a previous book that you had written called fair Play.

50
00:02:59.520 --> 00:03:03.479
So I really wanted to start with that, which is

51
00:03:03.719 --> 00:03:08.560
the concept of basically the unequal division of labor in

52
00:03:08.719 --> 00:03:13.840
most heterosexual households. Such an important topic. Can we please

53
00:03:13.879 --> 00:03:16.240
just start with you telling me about fair Play and

54
00:03:16.319 --> 00:03:18.280
how that work came about for you?

55
00:03:18.599 --> 00:03:21.240
Thanks? Kas, I mean, you know, in my third grade

56
00:03:21.280 --> 00:03:22.800
what do you want to be when you grow up? Board?

57
00:03:23.800 --> 00:03:28.439
It definitely didn't have gender division of labor specialists. I

58
00:03:28.439 --> 00:03:31.360
think it probably had like astronaut. I don't know, but

59
00:03:31.639 --> 00:03:34.159
you know what happened to me ten years ago really

60
00:03:34.199 --> 00:03:37.400
put me on this trajectory of fair Play and Find

61
00:03:37.400 --> 00:03:39.879
Your Unicorn Space. And that was a text my husband

62
00:03:39.960 --> 00:03:42.680
Seth sent me that said, I'm surprised you didn't get

63
00:03:42.680 --> 00:03:46.360
blueberries and you really can't make this stuff up. But

64
00:03:47.000 --> 00:03:50.360
what I can help you do is understand the headspace

65
00:03:50.400 --> 00:03:53.400
I was in when I got my I'm surprised you

66
00:03:53.400 --> 00:03:58.919
didn't get blueberries text because that overwhelmed and boredom, the

67
00:03:58.960 --> 00:04:01.199
two most popular words that women have been reporting to

68
00:04:01.240 --> 00:04:04.639
me in my research that they feel, especially during a pandemic,

69
00:04:04.840 --> 00:04:08.680
was very much present in my life. Ten years ago,

70
00:04:08.719 --> 00:04:11.560
I just had had my second son, Ben Cass and

71
00:04:11.599 --> 00:04:14.960
I had Zach, who was three at the time. I'd

72
00:04:15.000 --> 00:04:20.160
been married for about ten years, a little under ten

73
00:04:20.240 --> 00:04:24.120
years at the time, and we were three years into parenting.

74
00:04:25.639 --> 00:04:28.160
And what I remember about that day, three years in

75
00:04:29.079 --> 00:04:32.920
was just the overwhelm of having two kids under three,

76
00:04:33.560 --> 00:04:36.360
having a baby back home. I had a breast pump

77
00:04:36.399 --> 00:04:38.839
and a diaper bag in my car. I remember when

78
00:04:38.839 --> 00:04:41.600
I'm getting seth Tex, I'm surprised you didn't get blueberries.

79
00:04:42.360 --> 00:04:44.600
As I'm driving, so I am already texting and driving

80
00:04:45.439 --> 00:04:47.399
gives her a newborn baby to return in the back.

81
00:04:48.120 --> 00:04:51.600
I had opted out of the traditional workforce. Now I

82
00:04:51.639 --> 00:04:53.480
say forced out if any woman who was in the

83
00:04:53.480 --> 00:05:01.040
corporate workforce, whether it's in Australia, New Zealand, America, seventeen

84
00:05:01.959 --> 00:05:04.519
countries that I interviewed. Any single woman I spoke to

85
00:05:04.600 --> 00:05:06.519
had a reason they were forced out. So now I

86
00:05:06.560 --> 00:05:09.639
say forced out. I was forced out of the traditional workforce.

87
00:05:09.639 --> 00:05:12.040
So I had started my own law firm, had a

88
00:05:12.040 --> 00:05:15.120
client contract in my lap, and I remember every time

89
00:05:15.160 --> 00:05:17.680
I would hit the brakes casts, this pen that was

90
00:05:17.680 --> 00:05:19.360
in between my legs as I was marking up this

91
00:05:19.360 --> 00:05:22.560
contract would sort of sneak up and stab me in

92
00:05:22.600 --> 00:05:25.079
the vagina. That's what I remember. I just remember being

93
00:05:25.079 --> 00:05:28.720
stabbed in the vagina by a pen getting seths. I'm

94
00:05:28.759 --> 00:05:31.480
surprised you didn't get blueberries texts to the point where

95
00:05:31.480 --> 00:05:33.519
that I was late to pick up Zach, my older son,

96
00:05:33.560 --> 00:05:36.480
at his toddler transition program because in America we don't

97
00:05:36.480 --> 00:05:40.279
have universal childcare. Those programs last seven minutes and they

98
00:05:40.319 --> 00:05:46.120
cost your entire salary. And I know same thing for you.

99
00:05:46.240 --> 00:05:49.800
I know I've spoken to many women in your neck

100
00:05:49.800 --> 00:05:54.319
of the woods who report similar childcare dearths. And I

101
00:05:54.360 --> 00:05:58.199
remember that day thinking, I'm here on the side of

102
00:05:58.240 --> 00:06:03.600
the road, crying, crying over resentment, overwhelmed boredom, being defined

103
00:06:03.639 --> 00:06:08.920
as the fulfiller of my husband's smoothie needs when this

104
00:06:09.040 --> 00:06:11.480
was not supposed to happen to me, Cas I was

105
00:06:11.519 --> 00:06:16.360
supposed to have a fair and equal marriage. I'm a

106
00:06:16.399 --> 00:06:18.879
product of a single mother. As soon as I became

107
00:06:18.959 --> 00:06:22.959
her parental child and helped her with late utility bills

108
00:06:22.959 --> 00:06:26.399
and eviction notices, I said I would have an equal partner.

109
00:06:26.519 --> 00:06:29.800
This would not be my life. I'm a Harvard trade mediator,

110
00:06:29.879 --> 00:06:34.959
I'm literally trained in difficult conversations. And still I didn't

111
00:06:34.959 --> 00:06:39.079
have a community. I didn't have you. I had myself alone,

112
00:06:39.120 --> 00:06:41.680
isolated on the side of the road, thinking this is

113
00:06:41.720 --> 00:06:44.560
not the career marriage combo I thought I was going

114
00:06:44.639 --> 00:06:47.720
to have. And that was probably one of the lowest

115
00:06:47.720 --> 00:06:49.079
points in my life.

116
00:06:49.319 --> 00:06:52.639
And that is what you have just described. Everybody listening,

117
00:06:52.639 --> 00:06:56.160
women listening, mother's listening will relate one hundred percent. I

118
00:06:56.240 --> 00:07:00.000
can relate to that story. And the thing is, Ryan,

119
00:07:00.279 --> 00:07:04.160
you did have what you considered to be a very

120
00:07:04.279 --> 00:07:09.680
equal marriage, equal partnership until children came along. Would that

121
00:07:09.720 --> 00:07:10.439
be fair to say.

122
00:07:10.480 --> 00:07:14.600
One hundred percent? We were supportive of each other's careers.

123
00:07:14.800 --> 00:07:17.560
Seth would do the dishes, I would order in the pizza.

124
00:07:18.680 --> 00:07:22.279
He would mark up, you know, an offer letter for

125
00:07:22.439 --> 00:07:25.040
me as I was looking for a new job. We

126
00:07:25.040 --> 00:07:30.560
were really equitable cass and it was I think the

127
00:07:30.600 --> 00:07:34.160
reason why I was called to this work is because

128
00:07:34.240 --> 00:07:37.079
I think I'm I'm like the ghost of Christmas future,

129
00:07:38.079 --> 00:07:41.519
that this idea that I was so shocked and surprised

130
00:07:42.439 --> 00:07:48.079
by this, the assumptions for myself. You know, I'm not

131
00:07:48.120 --> 00:07:50.120
here to say I wasn't complicit in my own oppression.

132
00:07:50.279 --> 00:07:54.759
I one hundred percent was. But the surprise, you overwhelm,

133
00:07:55.319 --> 00:07:59.560
the sadness, the isolation, all of these things that I

134
00:07:59.560 --> 00:08:02.319
had never heard about, because probably the only resource of

135
00:08:02.319 --> 00:08:04.920
my life was what to expect when you're expecting. And

136
00:08:04.959 --> 00:08:07.360
I knew my child was going to be a jellybean size,

137
00:08:07.920 --> 00:08:09.759
but I had no idea what to expect when I

138
00:08:09.800 --> 00:08:14.639
was expecting. And I wish, I wish that someone had

139
00:08:14.680 --> 00:08:18.360
just said, this is the statistics. This may not happen

140
00:08:18.360 --> 00:08:21.360
to you if you're lucky, great, but it probably will,

141
00:08:21.879 --> 00:08:23.959
and so you might as well get ahead of it

142
00:08:24.600 --> 00:08:27.040
so that you're not in this place of resentment and

143
00:08:27.120 --> 00:08:31.120
overwhelm and all these other decisions that are made for

144
00:08:31.240 --> 00:08:35.679
us that actually are made out of fear, out of reaction,

145
00:08:36.039 --> 00:08:39.200
out of overwhelm, out of exhaustion, that may not be

146
00:08:39.240 --> 00:08:42.440
the best decisions for us as women in the long term.

147
00:08:43.240 --> 00:08:45.200
And so you got the text about the blueberries Eve

148
00:08:46.519 --> 00:08:47.440
and then what happened.

149
00:08:47.799 --> 00:08:49.279
Well, I like to say, you know, I think of

150
00:08:49.399 --> 00:08:52.960
my work as an evolution and so at first, and

151
00:08:53.039 --> 00:08:55.399
my mother, she's a professor of social change, I will

152
00:08:55.440 --> 00:08:58.519
say that I have her in my background. Always justice

153
00:08:58.559 --> 00:09:01.559
and fairness was always the value, the guiding values of

154
00:09:02.320 --> 00:09:05.240
her work in her life, and she's always say to me,

155
00:09:05.279 --> 00:09:08.799
the way to change is from pre consciousness to consciousness,

156
00:09:08.840 --> 00:09:11.440
and then you can fight for solutions. But you can't

157
00:09:11.440 --> 00:09:15.120
go from pre consciousness to solutions. You know, you have

158
00:09:15.200 --> 00:09:18.240
to really wake up, because if you're pre conscious, you

159
00:09:18.240 --> 00:09:20.399
don't think you need the solutions, and then what's the

160
00:09:20.440 --> 00:09:23.639
point of the solutions. They sit, they're unused. So for

161
00:09:23.759 --> 00:09:27.159
me it was the waking up, and the waking up

162
00:09:27.240 --> 00:09:32.000
cast was really probably about a year long process of

163
00:09:32.240 --> 00:09:34.799
just starting to be aware of what was happening around me.

164
00:09:35.000 --> 00:09:38.919
I write about the day I realized this wasn't just

165
00:09:39.320 --> 00:09:42.159
an Eve problem. When I was at a breast cancer march.

166
00:09:42.279 --> 00:09:44.799
My friend was newly diagnosed and we had ten women

167
00:09:44.840 --> 00:09:47.720
with us, and what was interesting about that day was

168
00:09:47.720 --> 00:09:51.440
they were all like titans of their industry, very very

169
00:09:51.480 --> 00:09:55.639
powerful women CEOs oscar winning producer. It just happened to

170
00:09:55.639 --> 00:09:59.600
be her friends were very titans of industry. And I

171
00:09:59.639 --> 00:10:02.480
remember this morning of having this true girlfriend's getaway. It

172
00:10:02.480 --> 00:10:04.679
was a Saturday morning. We were there for her. We

173
00:10:04.679 --> 00:10:09.320
were in pink clothes and carrying signs. And what was

174
00:10:09.320 --> 00:10:14.080
so interesting about that day was how at noon, all

175
00:10:14.120 --> 00:10:17.320
of these smart, strong women they turned into pumpkins like

176
00:10:17.360 --> 00:10:21.200
Cinderella with me where we had this reservation for lunch

177
00:10:21.279 --> 00:10:25.320
after the march, and noon came and all of these

178
00:10:25.559 --> 00:10:28.559
texts and emails sort of flooding in casts. We weren't

179
00:10:28.559 --> 00:10:31.399
all married to men, but the ones that were, we

180
00:10:31.519 --> 00:10:35.879
got overwhelmed with when are you coming home from the parade?

181
00:10:36.360 --> 00:10:39.480
That was one of my favorite. Where's Hudson's soccer bag?

182
00:10:39.919 --> 00:10:41.879
You didn't leave me the address of the birthday party?

183
00:10:41.919 --> 00:10:45.519
And did you even get a gift? My favorite was

184
00:10:45.559 --> 00:10:48.720
my friend Kate's husband, do the kids need to eat lunch?

185
00:10:50.320 --> 00:10:52.480
And I think what was so hard about that day

186
00:10:53.799 --> 00:10:59.519
but transformative for me, was two things. One the recognition

187
00:10:59.600 --> 00:11:02.320
that all the women who use their voice in every

188
00:11:02.320 --> 00:11:05.720
other area of their life all said to me, we

189
00:11:05.799 --> 00:11:08.759
left our partners with too much to do. They all

190
00:11:08.840 --> 00:11:12.360
left me, didn't have lunch with me, and said I'm

191
00:11:12.360 --> 00:11:14.639
going to go home to bring a perfectly rap gift

192
00:11:14.679 --> 00:11:17.879
to a birthday party, to find Hudson's soccer bag, you know,

193
00:11:17.919 --> 00:11:21.840
and to feed their kids lunch. That was the first realization.

194
00:11:21.879 --> 00:11:26.480
The second was just the enormity of what it takes

195
00:11:26.519 --> 00:11:29.559
to run a household, even for three hours that we

196
00:11:29.559 --> 00:11:32.200
were gone. And so I counted up how many phone

197
00:11:32.200 --> 00:11:37.480
calls and texts we had received. Thirty phone calls, forty

198
00:11:37.519 --> 00:11:41.519
six texts for ten women over thirty minutes. That was

199
00:11:41.519 --> 00:11:44.320
my first act of resistance, cass of understanding that this

200
00:11:45.720 --> 00:11:49.159
was not just a one off, that this was happening

201
00:11:49.159 --> 00:11:51.039
to those around us as well.

202
00:11:51.519 --> 00:11:54.399
And again I remember getting those texts myself. I remember

203
00:11:54.440 --> 00:11:56.519
getting those texts, so those phone calls when I would

204
00:11:56.720 --> 00:12:01.279
literally walk to the corner store, which was my one outing.

205
00:12:01.320 --> 00:12:03.240
And I've talked about this before on the podcast, talking

206
00:12:03.240 --> 00:12:05.440
about you know, life after having a baby and the

207
00:12:05.480 --> 00:12:07.759
pressures of that. I think it's one of our most

208
00:12:07.799 --> 00:12:09.440
listened to episodes and it's the one that I get

209
00:12:09.480 --> 00:12:13.000
the most feedback on. When we talked on this show,

210
00:12:13.039 --> 00:12:18.960
about being broken by the expectations put on us after

211
00:12:19.000 --> 00:12:25.360
we have children. We all, I think realize, like everybody

212
00:12:25.399 --> 00:12:29.960
listening to this show can relate. We all get well.

213
00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:35.000
First of all, let's talk about invisible invisible labor, because

214
00:12:35.240 --> 00:12:38.080
it's not just like doing the things, is it. It's

215
00:12:38.120 --> 00:12:41.519
thinking of the things. That's the other pressure that's on women.

216
00:12:42.080 --> 00:12:44.480
My husband, bless him, would say to me, I'm here

217
00:12:44.480 --> 00:12:46.159
to help. Just tell me what I need to do.

218
00:12:46.440 --> 00:12:47.519
Just tell me what I need to do.

219
00:12:47.840 --> 00:12:50.399
I don't want to have to think about what you

220
00:12:50.559 --> 00:12:51.279
need to do.

221
00:12:51.960 --> 00:12:55.480
So before you're so overwhelmed, just get help, or you're

222
00:12:55.480 --> 00:12:59.200
doing all these unnecessary things. Right, it's just devaluing and

223
00:12:59.240 --> 00:13:03.399
devaluing in death by a thousand cuts cat right.

224
00:13:03.960 --> 00:13:07.559
So we understand the problem, and I think we increasingly

225
00:13:07.679 --> 00:13:10.679
understand the problem. We at a loss to on what

226
00:13:10.759 --> 00:13:13.559
to do about it. But you would driven too. Vonda's

227
00:13:13.559 --> 00:13:14.200
solution to this.

228
00:13:14.759 --> 00:13:17.960
Yeah, that was I had to It was for me.

229
00:13:18.120 --> 00:13:21.039
It was otherwise I was creating the exact same patterns

230
00:13:21.080 --> 00:13:24.799
you know of my mother's life. And again I saw

231
00:13:24.919 --> 00:13:27.840
very limited options. I didn't have a podcast, I didn't

232
00:13:27.879 --> 00:13:30.559
have Crappy to Happy, I didn't have you with an

233
00:13:30.559 --> 00:13:33.320
episode that says, Wow, someone else, there is someone else

234
00:13:33.360 --> 00:13:36.440
out there is broken there? It was. It was different.

235
00:13:36.480 --> 00:13:39.960
We didn't even have iPads back then. It was just

236
00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:43.000
the first year iPads were coming out. So technology ten

237
00:13:43.080 --> 00:13:46.039
years ago was very different, and so I was so isolated,

238
00:13:46.240 --> 00:13:51.000
and so for me, the only choices I really had

239
00:13:51.360 --> 00:13:55.279
were to either leave my marriage because one of my

240
00:13:55.320 --> 00:13:56.960
friends said to me, well, if you're so fed up,

241
00:13:57.440 --> 00:14:00.559
three words can solve your problem. And I was like, great,

242
00:14:01.279 --> 00:14:03.440
I was hanging on every word. What are those three words?

243
00:14:04.159 --> 00:14:08.799
And she said, court ordered custody, And so I said, okay,

244
00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:12.159
that's right. You know that is that will force a

245
00:14:12.200 --> 00:14:15.480
partner to take their custody, to have to hold the cards.

246
00:14:15.559 --> 00:14:19.200
That's the metaphor now affair play. But for me, it

247
00:14:19.279 --> 00:14:24.360
was understanding that instead of doing that, I first wanted

248
00:14:24.360 --> 00:14:27.519
to get my ass in gear and I became my

249
00:14:27.559 --> 00:14:31.240
own client casts because my day job is I create

250
00:14:31.320 --> 00:14:36.279
systems for very highly complex families that look like our

251
00:14:36.440 --> 00:14:38.320
HBO show Succession. I don't know if it's there or

252
00:14:38.360 --> 00:14:38.879
to you yet.

253
00:14:39.200 --> 00:14:40.279
I just started watching it.

254
00:14:40.639 --> 00:14:43.639
Yes, so it's you know, it's triggering for me. I

255
00:14:43.639 --> 00:14:47.720
could literally write weirder, even weirder plot points. But what

256
00:14:47.759 --> 00:14:49.600
I do for those families is I create grace and

257
00:14:49.679 --> 00:14:55.440
humor and generosity around the most difficult family decisions, operational decisions,

258
00:14:55.480 --> 00:15:01.639
and financial decision. And so when I started to think

259
00:15:01.679 --> 00:15:06.120
about systems, I did the first most logical thing that

260
00:15:06.200 --> 00:15:10.440
didn't work. That was to create a list. I created

261
00:15:10.440 --> 00:15:13.399
the Shit I Do spreadsheet, which had ninety eight tabs.

262
00:15:14.759 --> 00:15:18.440
It was my first attempt at a community. We had

263
00:15:18.480 --> 00:15:21.159
Facebook back then, it was sort of early. I was

264
00:15:21.600 --> 00:15:26.519
disseminating this version of a spreadsheet early we had blackberries

265
00:15:26.559 --> 00:15:30.080
back then, texting people asking them what do you do

266
00:15:30.159 --> 00:15:34.360
that takes more than two minutes of your time? Because

267
00:15:34.399 --> 00:15:37.879
what I was understanding was that there are same shit

268
00:15:37.960 --> 00:15:40.519
different decade. We've been talking about this for one hundred years.

269
00:15:41.200 --> 00:15:43.320
Women's shoulder two thirds or more of what it takes

270
00:15:43.320 --> 00:15:46.519
to run a home and family. We call it mental load.

271
00:15:46.679 --> 00:15:49.919
We've called it the second shift, we've called it emotional labor.

272
00:15:50.679 --> 00:15:53.519
But you're right, Cas. Invisible work was my favorite term,

273
00:15:53.600 --> 00:15:56.919
coined in nineteen eighty six by a sociologist named Arlene

274
00:15:57.000 --> 00:16:01.879
Kaplan Daniels, because you I could just it was duh

275
00:16:02.200 --> 00:16:04.480
if it's invisible work. Just make it visible and you

276
00:16:04.519 --> 00:16:07.639
will solve the problem. So I did that. I spent

277
00:16:07.720 --> 00:16:10.559
nine months sourcing the Shit I Do spreadsheet. It had

278
00:16:10.639 --> 00:16:15.240
ninety eight tabs, two thousand items of invisible work, all

279
00:16:15.279 --> 00:16:17.399
the way down to the medical and healthy living tab.

280
00:16:17.440 --> 00:16:19.480
When someone said, well, I don't see sunscreen on there,

281
00:16:19.759 --> 00:16:21.279
I'm like, well, then you don't know how to use Excel.

282
00:16:21.320 --> 00:16:24.399
You better scroll down to item seventeen because then you'll

283
00:16:24.440 --> 00:16:27.840
see sunscreen. You'll see two minutes for the application and

284
00:16:27.919 --> 00:16:31.440
thirty minutes for the chase. And it was that granular.

285
00:16:32.240 --> 00:16:36.080
I sent it off to Seth so excited because I

286
00:16:36.159 --> 00:16:40.120
finally made the invisible visible. This amazing community of women

287
00:16:40.159 --> 00:16:42.879
had helped me. And I don't get a response from him.

288
00:16:42.960 --> 00:16:46.240
Cast I don't even get words. I get a pixelated

289
00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:50.480
monkey emoji that basically said I don't want to see this.

290
00:16:51.639 --> 00:16:55.159
A see no evil other homes. This woman, you can't

291
00:16:55.159 --> 00:16:57.000
make this stuff up called me and said, hey, Eve,

292
00:16:57.039 --> 00:17:00.639
I received your spreadsheet. It was really helpful. I'm just

293
00:17:00.639 --> 00:17:01.879
calling to let you know I'm not going to stay

294
00:17:01.919 --> 00:17:06.039
in my marriage. I was like, oh God, so this

295
00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:10.519
is where when you bring consciousness, but you don't necessarily

296
00:17:10.559 --> 00:17:15.119
have a solution, yet it can actually be dangerous because

297
00:17:15.279 --> 00:17:18.319
it can lead to people feeling hopeless, which is never

298
00:17:18.359 --> 00:17:20.240
a place I wanted to So what did I do

299
00:17:20.319 --> 00:17:23.400
nest next? When I realized lists alone don't work, that

300
00:17:23.440 --> 00:17:27.359
women have been making lists for one hundred years, I

301
00:17:27.440 --> 00:17:29.400
realized that the only other thing I could do was

302
00:17:29.519 --> 00:17:32.920
ask the question that I ask of my clients, and

303
00:17:32.960 --> 00:17:35.000
that question, the most important question I've ever asked in

304
00:17:35.039 --> 00:17:38.119
the past ten years, is what would happen if we

305
00:17:38.240 --> 00:17:44.240
treated our homes as our most important organizations, not corporations.

306
00:17:44.279 --> 00:17:47.880
Some people mislabel me, not here for the capitalist patriarchy.

307
00:17:47.920 --> 00:17:52.440
I'm talking about organizations. When you do that, I would

308
00:17:52.440 --> 00:17:55.119
ask it over and over again. I remember one man

309
00:17:55.160 --> 00:17:57.519
said to me, Oh, Eve, you mean like my house

310
00:17:57.599 --> 00:18:00.599
where we wait to decide who's taking the dog out

311
00:18:01.200 --> 00:18:02.960
right when it's about to take a piss on the rug.

312
00:18:04.359 --> 00:18:06.880
And I said to him, yes, that, but the opposite,

313
00:18:07.039 --> 00:18:09.559
whatever that is that's happening in your home, I want

314
00:18:09.599 --> 00:18:12.400
you to do the exact opposite. And what I realized

315
00:18:12.440 --> 00:18:14.960
was that most people were living a figure it out philosophy,

316
00:18:15.799 --> 00:18:19.400
which is highly dangerous. And so when I could get

317
00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:22.480
to the bottom of what you asked. This is a

318
00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:24.720
long answer to get to your question of how did

319
00:18:24.799 --> 00:18:29.079
I understand that there was an organizational solution to this problem.

320
00:18:29.480 --> 00:18:33.240
It's because I realized that there were more steps in execution.

321
00:18:34.640 --> 00:18:36.759
So it was when I started to ask the next

322
00:18:36.759 --> 00:18:39.240
most important question I've asked in ten years, which was

323
00:18:40.119 --> 00:18:44.119
how did mustard get in your refrigerator? I asked that

324
00:18:44.200 --> 00:18:49.480
in seventeen countries cass and in hetero cisgender couples, which

325
00:18:49.480 --> 00:18:51.400
is what I'm focusing on now because that's where all

326
00:18:51.400 --> 00:18:55.920
of our norms and problems come from. In heterosisgender couples,

327
00:18:56.000 --> 00:18:59.519
it was the same. It didn't matter if you were

328
00:18:59.519 --> 00:19:02.680
in Norway, Sweden. It didn't look different. There didn't look

329
00:19:02.759 --> 00:19:05.680
different if you were in mainland China or Japan or Australia,

330
00:19:06.279 --> 00:19:09.640
or whether it was Melbourne or Perth or Sydney. What

331
00:19:09.759 --> 00:19:13.680
I was seeing was women kept reporting that they were

332
00:19:13.720 --> 00:19:18.079
the one noticing their second son, Johnny likes yellow mustard,

333
00:19:18.119 --> 00:19:21.680
otherwise he won't eat his protein. It was women doing

334
00:19:21.720 --> 00:19:25.759
that stage, which is called conception in the project management world.

335
00:19:26.359 --> 00:19:29.119
And then I would hear oh yeah, And then of course,

336
00:19:29.200 --> 00:19:32.240
after I know Johnny needs it. I monitored the mustard

337
00:19:32.240 --> 00:19:35.240
for when it's running low, and I get stakeholder buy

338
00:19:35.279 --> 00:19:37.640
in from my family for what they need from the list.

339
00:19:38.759 --> 00:19:41.000
I didn't say that exactly, but that's what I'm listening for.

340
00:19:41.160 --> 00:19:43.799
That's planning. That's another stage that we get paid the

341
00:19:43.799 --> 00:19:48.279
big bucks for in the organizational management world. And then

342
00:19:48.319 --> 00:19:50.920
I would hear, oh yeah, and then my partner goes

343
00:19:50.920 --> 00:19:54.160
to the store and he brings home spicy dijon every time.

344
00:19:55.279 --> 00:19:59.559
And you know, if I asked for yellow mustard and

345
00:19:59.799 --> 00:20:01.240
so so you want me to trust him with my

346
00:20:01.279 --> 00:20:04.599
living will, well, the loser can't even bring home the

347
00:20:04.680 --> 00:20:09.160
right type of mustard. And so, once I realized that

348
00:20:09.839 --> 00:20:15.160
when conception and planning is broken up from execution, that's

349
00:20:15.319 --> 00:20:19.559
very very bad. That's a red flag in any organization.

350
00:20:20.119 --> 00:20:22.720
It's the opposite of psychological safety. It's the opposite of

351
00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:25.599
a corporations are doing today, which is called the directly

352
00:20:25.640 --> 00:20:31.640
responsible individual. And so when I realized that motivation came

353
00:20:31.640 --> 00:20:35.559
from keeping the ownership mindset, the conception, planning, and execution together,

354
00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:39.279
I realized I was onto something that I can actually

355
00:20:39.359 --> 00:20:43.079
create a system where there could be real actionable change

356
00:20:43.079 --> 00:20:44.240
in people's homes.

357
00:20:44.119 --> 00:20:47.359
Which is amazing and I absolutely love this. And I

358
00:20:47.400 --> 00:20:49.279
was just thinking as you were talking then that when

359
00:20:49.440 --> 00:20:54.599
that guy brings home the spicy mustard or he you know,

360
00:20:54.640 --> 00:20:59.680
when that execution isn't carried out and we as women

361
00:20:59.720 --> 00:21:04.240
who have done everything else and he still can't get

362
00:21:04.240 --> 00:21:10.079
it wrong, Like it's not only so incredibly frustrating for us,

363
00:21:10.119 --> 00:21:15.559
but it's also really then he feels devalued, unappreciated. So

364
00:21:15.640 --> 00:21:20.079
it just sets up this hostility and conflict in relationships,

365
00:21:20.079 --> 00:21:23.400
doesn't it, Like we can see how relationships get to

366
00:21:23.519 --> 00:21:27.799
breaking point because of this problem. All the best intentions

367
00:21:27.799 --> 00:21:30.880
in the world and we're just still butting heads.

368
00:21:31.279 --> 00:21:34.160
Well, you're right, cast because really what you're saying is

369
00:21:34.200 --> 00:21:38.160
the two most important words that any healthy organization can

370
00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:42.960
have are accountability and trust. So when people started to

371
00:21:43.000 --> 00:21:45.359
say to me, I can't trust my partner to go

372
00:21:45.359 --> 00:21:48.519
to the store for the right type of mustard, even

373
00:21:48.559 --> 00:21:51.920
though and then they're not a I can't hold them

374
00:21:51.920 --> 00:21:55.400
accountable because I can't even have them, you know, do

375
00:21:55.519 --> 00:21:57.799
my living will because they would never do it on time,

376
00:21:58.279 --> 00:22:00.920
they wouldn't get it done right. When you start hearing

377
00:22:00.920 --> 00:22:04.079
those things, the home is so dangerous because it presents

378
00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:10.000
so small as in off season blueberries or the mustard.

379
00:22:10.480 --> 00:22:15.599
But really what's happening is when your organization loses accountability

380
00:22:15.640 --> 00:22:18.839
and trust, it's the end. It's the end of that organization.

381
00:22:19.799 --> 00:22:20.759
So then where did you go?

382
00:22:20.960 --> 00:22:25.200
So what happens next? Well, once I understood that the

383
00:22:25.240 --> 00:22:31.680
ownership mindset was something that really could could work, we

384
00:22:31.720 --> 00:22:36.200
started to apply it to our home and it didn't work.

385
00:22:36.519 --> 00:22:41.359
Really because I was the first beta tester, it didn't work.

386
00:22:42.119 --> 00:22:45.440
What happened was we started to divide up the shit

387
00:22:45.519 --> 00:22:48.200
I do spreadsheet, which became the fair Play cards. There's

388
00:22:48.240 --> 00:22:51.680
one hundred cards. It's their actual cards, but it's also

389
00:22:51.720 --> 00:22:56.359
a metaphor and fifty or there's sixty if you don't

390
00:22:56.359 --> 00:22:58.759
have children. You add forty if you have kids, so

391
00:22:58.839 --> 00:23:02.880
again as the ghost of Christmas future, you may decide

392
00:23:03.079 --> 00:23:05.559
not to have them after I tell you that forty

393
00:23:05.640 --> 00:23:10.599
extra cards. But it wasn't working because what happened was

394
00:23:11.920 --> 00:23:14.640
I forgot the most important thing about a system cast,

395
00:23:14.680 --> 00:23:19.000
which is that you need onboarding, you need buy in

396
00:23:19.000 --> 00:23:23.599
to the system. So instead of writing that in yet

397
00:23:23.880 --> 00:23:28.000
remember this is the early days of beta testing, I

398
00:23:28.079 --> 00:23:30.799
just started the ownership mindset where I said to Seth,

399
00:23:30.880 --> 00:23:36.440
you have garbage. And then he understood that CPE of

400
00:23:36.440 --> 00:23:40.960
garbage meant that it would include the diaper pail, that

401
00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:43.359
it would include the little bins all over the house,

402
00:23:43.559 --> 00:23:46.359
that it would include putting the liner back in. The

403
00:23:46.400 --> 00:23:49.079
liner goes back in very important, and that again the

404
00:23:49.119 --> 00:23:52.720
liner goes back in. But what was happening was so

405
00:23:52.759 --> 00:23:54.599
Seth really liked this idea. Okay, I can own the

406
00:23:54.640 --> 00:23:57.480
whole thing. I understand the expectations, the CP and E

407
00:23:57.640 --> 00:24:01.039
that goes into garbage. So what happened Cass was I

408
00:24:01.200 --> 00:24:06.079
was his garbage shadow. I could not let go because

409
00:24:06.079 --> 00:24:09.480
our accountability and trust had been so low that just

410
00:24:09.559 --> 00:24:13.519
jumping into who does what wasn't working. And he was

411
00:24:13.559 --> 00:24:16.680
watching me. He was watching me stand over him and

412
00:24:16.759 --> 00:24:19.359
stare at the garbage and put the liner by the

413
00:24:19.400 --> 00:24:22.079
sink and still say, sat the garbage is you know,

414
00:24:22.079 --> 00:24:24.559
and he's like Jesus. I thought, this is the ownership mindset.

415
00:24:24.599 --> 00:24:29.720
It wasn't working. And that's when I realized that when

416
00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:33.119
I create systems for families, I don't just say okay,

417
00:24:33.160 --> 00:24:37.000
brother a CFO, sister COO, okay, we're good like let's

418
00:24:37.079 --> 00:24:40.640
get moving. What you often have to do is back

419
00:24:40.759 --> 00:24:45.200
up and understand that how we communicate about domestic life

420
00:24:45.759 --> 00:24:48.319
is going to be the most important communication practice of

421
00:24:48.359 --> 00:24:51.640
our lives. And so in my day job, when clients

422
00:24:51.680 --> 00:24:54.359
would say to me, well, we don't communicate about the

423
00:24:54.400 --> 00:24:58.480
family business. But then I'd go into a meeting and

424
00:24:58.759 --> 00:25:03.519
we'd have Dad. Every time his son would speak, he'd

425
00:25:03.559 --> 00:25:05.599
walk out of the room. He said, well, I was

426
00:25:05.640 --> 00:25:07.640
just going to get you a drink of water. It's like, no,

427
00:25:08.160 --> 00:25:11.359
you walk out every single time your first son speaks.

428
00:25:11.799 --> 00:25:14.480
So this idea that we're already communicating about domestic life.

429
00:25:14.519 --> 00:25:17.359
I was obviously by the garbage liner and following set

430
00:25:17.400 --> 00:25:21.000
around the kitchen. So understanding that as if I was

431
00:25:21.039 --> 00:25:25.279
my own client, I took my own advice. We instituted

432
00:25:25.319 --> 00:25:28.799
a communication check in when emotion was low, emotion was low,

433
00:25:28.799 --> 00:25:31.920
and cognition was high. And I said to Seth, look,

434
00:25:32.599 --> 00:25:35.559
I'm going to explain to you why I think i'm

435
00:25:35.599 --> 00:25:41.279
your garbage shadow. I'm your garbage shadow because I really

436
00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:43.839
don't think you know this about me. But I did

437
00:25:43.839 --> 00:25:49.079
not have a garbage can growing up. I had a

438
00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:54.119
garbage bag on this on a knob, the garbage would

439
00:25:54.119 --> 00:25:57.240
spill out all over the floor. And every night when

440
00:25:57.240 --> 00:25:59.599
my mother did not come home on time because she

441
00:25:59.640 --> 00:26:02.359
worked like I would put my disabled brother to bed.

442
00:26:02.480 --> 00:26:04.880
When he would ask for water, I'd have to go

443
00:26:04.920 --> 00:26:08.759
into the kitchen and get out. Sorry, my son is knocking.

444
00:26:08.759 --> 00:26:11.279
I'm gonna literally, I'm gonna hold on. Let me just call.

445
00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:16.440
I'm just gonna go and say hold on. I think

446
00:26:16.480 --> 00:26:20.880
Ben's knocking on my door because he's interrupting the podcast. Okay,

447
00:26:20.920 --> 00:26:24.400
can you ask or get Seth to grab him? All right,

448
00:26:24.519 --> 00:26:24.880
thank you?

449
00:26:25.240 --> 00:26:29.359
Okay, still doing the invisible work, Eve, Just yeah, yeah.

450
00:26:29.279 --> 00:26:32.440
Yeah, visible work. That's well. You the average woman had

451
00:26:32.480 --> 00:26:34.759
interrupted every three minutes and forty two seconds. We actually

452
00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:38.039
got a good chunk of time. Yeah. So what I

453
00:26:38.079 --> 00:26:42.079
needed to happen was for Seth to understand that for me,

454
00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:46.079
garbage falling out onto the floor was actually bringing me

455
00:26:46.119 --> 00:26:47.960
back to a really dark place in my life where

456
00:26:47.960 --> 00:26:51.799
I felt abandoned, alone in charge of my brother. And

457
00:26:51.839 --> 00:26:53.319
then he was able to say to me, well, I've

458
00:26:53.319 --> 00:26:56.160
actually never really thought about garbage. You know, I had

459
00:26:56.160 --> 00:26:59.400
a housekeeper growing up, and you know, maybe I actually

460
00:26:59.440 --> 00:27:02.480
like garbage. I slept on pizza boxes in my fraternity.

461
00:27:02.720 --> 00:27:06.519
So how interesting what happens, Cass, Right, Does that mean

462
00:27:06.559 --> 00:27:08.880
I just do it again because I care more? No,

463
00:27:09.039 --> 00:27:11.559
because then they were back to the starting point where

464
00:27:11.599 --> 00:27:14.680
all hundred cards would fall on me. So what happened

465
00:27:14.799 --> 00:27:18.160
was Seth said, we need to come up with a standard,

466
00:27:18.160 --> 00:27:19.839
and I said, yes, it's called the minimum standard of

467
00:27:19.880 --> 00:27:23.720
care in the law or in medicine. Our minimum standard

468
00:27:23.759 --> 00:27:28.480
of care became garbage goes out once a day before

469
00:27:28.599 --> 00:27:32.039
Seth comes upstairs, and it'll include the diaper pail, and

470
00:27:32.079 --> 00:27:36.720
it'll include the small garbages and that's the end of garbage.

471
00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:40.119
That was it, Cass. Then it was like a miracle.

472
00:27:41.319 --> 00:27:43.400
It was like Moses parting the Red Sea. It was

473
00:27:43.440 --> 00:27:46.160
the first time in my life where there was consistent

474
00:27:46.240 --> 00:27:49.880
accountability and trust over garbage. And then we grew from

475
00:27:49.920 --> 00:27:50.960
there and.

476
00:27:50.839 --> 00:27:53.680
Then you could let it go. Let it go because

477
00:27:53.720 --> 00:27:54.759
you full trust.

478
00:27:54.839 --> 00:27:57.240
I never think about garbage ever again. And that has

479
00:27:57.319 --> 00:27:58.960
been we're like eight years later.

480
00:28:02.680 --> 00:28:05.960
I hope that you're enjoying this conversation and realizing the

481
00:28:06.039 --> 00:28:08.960
benefits of positivity in your own life. If you are

482
00:28:09.079 --> 00:28:11.759
enjoying the show, please be sure to like and subscribe

483
00:28:11.799 --> 00:28:14.119
so that you get notified when you EPs drop and

484
00:28:14.200 --> 00:28:16.599
head on over to Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen

485
00:28:16.720 --> 00:28:26.359
and leave us a rating and review. You started with

486
00:28:26.359 --> 00:28:31.720
a partner who was on board with this, I'll say equality.

487
00:28:31.839 --> 00:28:34.359
We'll get in a minute to equity. And it occurs

488
00:28:34.359 --> 00:28:37.559
to me that there are many women likely listening whose

489
00:28:37.599 --> 00:28:41.319
partners are not so on board, right, And I often

490
00:28:41.359 --> 00:28:47.880
have conversations with women about this about oftentimes men in

491
00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:53.480
these heterosexual relationships are pretty comfortable with the status quo,

492
00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:58.440
you know, getting there buy in to a system like this,

493
00:28:58.640 --> 00:29:01.920
like for many women, is going to be a huge hurdle.

494
00:29:02.680 --> 00:29:06.480
How do we do that? They've got no real reason

495
00:29:06.559 --> 00:29:09.960
to want things to change because they've got it pretty

496
00:29:09.960 --> 00:29:11.519
good with the way things are.

497
00:29:11.720 --> 00:29:14.079
Well, they think they do, possibly, but I would actually

498
00:29:14.119 --> 00:29:17.000
say they have things really bad. And that's that's why

499
00:29:17.039 --> 00:29:21.559
there's about forty percent of our listeners and our newsletter

500
00:29:21.640 --> 00:29:26.079
subscribers are men. Wow, Because what's been interesting hearing from

501
00:29:26.119 --> 00:29:29.599
men is that while I think the number one thing

502
00:29:29.680 --> 00:29:32.119
in seventeen countries cast that women told me they hated

503
00:29:32.160 --> 00:29:35.119
about home life was they can't shut their mind off,

504
00:29:36.799 --> 00:29:40.960
the number one thing that men told me though in

505
00:29:41.039 --> 00:29:44.759
heterosys gender relationship that they hated about home life was

506
00:29:45.480 --> 00:29:48.680
they can't get anything right. I thought it would be

507
00:29:48.759 --> 00:29:51.680
nagging right, which is a secondary concern, but it was

508
00:29:51.680 --> 00:29:54.039
this more of this idea that I really did try,

509
00:29:54.960 --> 00:29:57.880
but it was this false narrative. There's not that much

510
00:29:57.880 --> 00:30:01.200
for me to do. My wife breastfeeds, And then I

511
00:30:01.240 --> 00:30:04.680
would get so angry and be like, Okay, well, what

512
00:30:04.759 --> 00:30:07.400
about marriage and romance and middle of the night comfort

513
00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:09.880
of the baby and being her partner coach if she

514
00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:10.680
wants to do?

515
00:30:11.319 --> 00:30:13.359
And what about her in laws? And what about her

516
00:30:13.400 --> 00:30:16.279
aging an ailing parent? And what about watching of the baby?

517
00:30:16.920 --> 00:30:18.880
And what about good deeds? Do you ever think about

518
00:30:18.880 --> 00:30:20.799
what you want to add? What about thank you notes

519
00:30:20.799 --> 00:30:23.000
for all the things that the baby got? And I'd

520
00:30:23.079 --> 00:30:25.200
go through all of these things. What about spirituality? Are

521
00:30:25.240 --> 00:30:27.839
you going to get your child baptized? And just on

522
00:30:27.920 --> 00:30:28.559
and on and on.

523
00:30:28.640 --> 00:30:30.799
I'd say, well, what about those things that has nothing

524
00:30:30.799 --> 00:30:33.839
to do with breastfeeding? And what I realize, instead of

525
00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:36.759
getting angry at men understanding the empathy from their perspective

526
00:30:36.920 --> 00:30:40.519
that when you don't know your role, that's actually the

527
00:30:40.519 --> 00:30:43.440
worst place you can be in an organization. The lack

528
00:30:43.440 --> 00:30:46.039
of psychological safety when you don't know where you fit

529
00:30:46.119 --> 00:30:50.440
in is highly toxic as well, and it leads people

530
00:30:50.480 --> 00:30:53.640
to retreat and ultimately quit. And so in this case,

531
00:30:53.680 --> 00:30:56.440
the quitting metaphor would be stopping to help or to

532
00:30:56.480 --> 00:30:59.519
say instead, well, I will help you if you just

533
00:30:59.559 --> 00:31:02.000
tell me what to do. So we get into these

534
00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:06.200
really terrible dynamics, so how do we get out of them? Well,

535
00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:09.720
as my mother says, why are you writing to women? Eve,

536
00:31:09.759 --> 00:31:12.039
this is a men's problem, I said, I understand, but

537
00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:15.240
I do think that the thing I want to say

538
00:31:16.400 --> 00:31:20.319
to you is that you cannot change your partner, but

539
00:31:20.400 --> 00:31:24.279
you can. We all can recognize we're living in pluted air.

540
00:31:25.119 --> 00:31:27.440
I have a fair Play Policy institute to work on

541
00:31:27.480 --> 00:31:31.119
the pluted air, paid leave, universal childcare. The US is

542
00:31:31.119 --> 00:31:34.680
the worst, the worst. So we're breathing pluted air. But

543
00:31:34.720 --> 00:31:37.359
that doesn't mean you can suffocate. You have to still breathe.

544
00:31:38.480 --> 00:31:40.839
And so the analogy, if you carry it through to

545
00:31:40.880 --> 00:31:44.559
the mask, the mask is understanding that it can be

546
00:31:44.599 --> 00:31:47.160
a both and you can take agency in your own life.

547
00:31:47.640 --> 00:31:49.759
You can be a game changer in your own life.

548
00:31:50.400 --> 00:31:52.400
As well as understanding that you're living in a mess

549
00:31:52.480 --> 00:31:57.839
up system. And so if women come along this cultural

550
00:31:57.920 --> 00:32:02.119
movement with me, what happens is that our self talk

551
00:32:02.359 --> 00:32:05.839
has to change because we've been conditioned in a culture

552
00:32:06.880 --> 00:32:11.119
in all the sort of these white patriarchal countries, colonists countries,

553
00:32:11.559 --> 00:32:17.440
colonial countries that have that women's time is infinite, it's sand,

554
00:32:17.839 --> 00:32:21.039
it's not worth anything. Men's time is finite, and so

555
00:32:21.119 --> 00:32:24.039
we start to be conditioned to protect it. We know

556
00:32:24.079 --> 00:32:27.079
if women enter a male profession, salaries automatically go down.

557
00:32:27.519 --> 00:32:30.119
So we're hearing that culture message that our time is worthless.

558
00:32:30.680 --> 00:32:33.440
We say things in our societies like breastfeeding is free

559
00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:38.200
when it's really eighteen hundred hours it's a full time job.

560
00:32:39.400 --> 00:32:41.799
But then what happens is that back to our self

561
00:32:41.839 --> 00:32:45.039
talk where we can start the change as how we

562
00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:49.799
internalize that our time is worthless and the four most

563
00:32:49.799 --> 00:32:52.119
popular things that we say to ourselves, which is what

564
00:32:52.160 --> 00:32:55.039
you can do today. Remember this took me ten years.

565
00:32:55.039 --> 00:32:56.799
So all I'm asking you is to sit in this

566
00:32:56.920 --> 00:33:00.200
learning because we're going to come back for episod so

567
00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:03.599
too on the benefits of living in a partnership where

568
00:33:03.640 --> 00:33:07.920
you believe these things. But if you can sit in

569
00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:11.920
the understanding that you deserve a permission to be unavailable

570
00:33:11.960 --> 00:33:15.200
from your roles. You are more than your roles as

571
00:33:15.240 --> 00:33:17.519
a partner and or a parent, and or a caretaker

572
00:33:17.559 --> 00:33:20.240
and or a professional, and by professional I mean anybody

573
00:33:20.240 --> 00:33:22.839
who works for pay or works in the home. And

574
00:33:23.200 --> 00:33:26.799
if you can retire saying things like I do more

575
00:33:26.960 --> 00:33:31.200
unpaid labor because my partner makes more money than me. Oh, yes,

576
00:33:31.279 --> 00:33:34.480
my job is more flexible. We have to retire that

577
00:33:35.359 --> 00:33:37.359
because time is time. You get twenty four hours in

578
00:33:37.359 --> 00:33:40.039
a day, it's not money. We have to stop saying

579
00:33:40.079 --> 00:33:42.359
to ourselves in the time it takes me to tell

580
00:33:42.440 --> 00:33:44.359
him her, are they what to do? I should do

581
00:33:44.359 --> 00:33:47.720
it myself. That's a classic devaluing of your future time.

582
00:33:48.160 --> 00:33:50.839
We have to stop saying things like I'm a better multitasker,

583
00:33:51.519 --> 00:33:54.359
I'm wired differently for care. That is absolutely not true.

584
00:33:54.400 --> 00:33:59.119
There is no gender difference in our ability to multitask. Multitasking,

585
00:33:59.119 --> 00:34:01.960
in fact, is bad for everybody, and our brains are

586
00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:06.799
not conditioned to do that. And finally, another common one is, yeah,

587
00:34:06.839 --> 00:34:09.760
we're both colorectal surgeons, but I can find the time

588
00:34:10.320 --> 00:34:12.519
whereas my husband's. But you know, better at focusing on

589
00:34:12.519 --> 00:34:15.199
one task at a time. So once we realize there's

590
00:34:15.199 --> 00:34:17.280
actually no way to find time or not Albert Einstein,

591
00:34:17.320 --> 00:34:20.440
we can't mess with a space time continuum. There's only

592
00:34:20.480 --> 00:34:23.599
a difference in the expectations over how we use our time,

593
00:34:24.599 --> 00:34:27.559
then everything will change. And so when I said to myself,

594
00:34:29.119 --> 00:34:31.360
it didn't start with garbage. It started with I'm going

595
00:34:31.400 --> 00:34:34.000
to change my life because I'm not staying in a

596
00:34:34.039 --> 00:34:36.360
marriage where Seth is the one who has time choice

597
00:34:36.360 --> 00:34:39.239
and I don't. I'm not staying in a marriage. And

598
00:34:39.280 --> 00:34:40.960
I said this to myself. I said it to him

599
00:34:41.039 --> 00:34:43.519
much more gently. But it started with my understanding that

600
00:34:43.599 --> 00:34:46.599
he has four hours after our kids go to bed

601
00:34:46.639 --> 00:34:49.039
to check the sports sites and to work out and

602
00:34:49.039 --> 00:34:51.199
finish a power point deck where I'm doing things in

603
00:34:51.239 --> 00:34:53.960
service of our home till my head hits the pillow

604
00:34:54.480 --> 00:34:57.239
two hours later after here he goes to bed, And

605
00:34:57.280 --> 00:35:00.840
that fundamental unfairness is not something I'm willing to live

606
00:35:00.880 --> 00:35:04.719
with anymore, no matter how much I make monetarily, it's

607
00:35:04.840 --> 00:35:07.159
not a dynamic that I will live in any longer.

608
00:35:07.800 --> 00:35:11.280
And that was the self talk cast that's the precursor

609
00:35:12.599 --> 00:35:16.800
to fair play. But it's the most triggering work because

610
00:35:16.840 --> 00:35:19.079
it's exactly the opposite of how we've been conditioned as

611
00:35:19.119 --> 00:35:21.000
women since we were born.

612
00:35:21.679 --> 00:35:24.639
It is so true all of those things that you

613
00:35:24.639 --> 00:35:28.000
were saying. I was thinking, hmmm, I've either said them

614
00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:31.039
to myself or people listening are saying them to their selves.

615
00:35:31.039 --> 00:35:33.119
And that is the hard work, isn't it. It is

616
00:35:33.559 --> 00:35:39.480
changing those fundamental assumptions, just these ideas that we've all

617
00:35:39.519 --> 00:35:43.920
just grown up with and realizing that they're not true.

618
00:35:44.239 --> 00:35:46.960
So if you, as you were talking then about the

619
00:35:47.000 --> 00:35:49.199
baby and the thank you cards you are holding up

620
00:35:49.400 --> 00:35:52.639
Listeners can't see, but you're holding up cards from the

621
00:35:52.639 --> 00:35:57.639
fair Play deck. This is genius. Can you tell me?

622
00:35:57.719 --> 00:36:00.000
Because I think everybody should go out and get themselves

623
00:35:59.840 --> 00:36:01.519
as I did say that you also have lucky You

624
00:36:01.519 --> 00:36:04.599
can download a PDF version from your website. Tell me

625
00:36:04.639 --> 00:36:05.719
about the fair Play cards.

626
00:36:06.519 --> 00:36:10.360
Yes they are revolutionary right, well, yes they are because

627
00:36:10.440 --> 00:36:14.840
to me, anytime you can gamify difficult conversations, that's what

628
00:36:14.840 --> 00:36:16.960
I've been doing again as a decade working with really

629
00:36:16.960 --> 00:36:20.239
difficult families. Cards have always been really helpful to me.

630
00:36:21.519 --> 00:36:24.079
I'd have these patriarchs casts would say things to me

631
00:36:24.199 --> 00:36:25.880
like I don't know why they hired you. I'm not

632
00:36:25.880 --> 00:36:28.320
going to die, so I'm like, well, I'm not sure

633
00:36:28.320 --> 00:36:30.800
why i'm here either. If I'm here to make your

634
00:36:30.840 --> 00:36:33.320
succession plan and you're not going to die, I might

635
00:36:33.360 --> 00:36:35.920
as well just leave, right, So it became a lot

636
00:36:35.960 --> 00:36:38.320
easier to say, let's play a game. How do you

637
00:36:38.320 --> 00:36:40.880
picture your legacy? Is it a bird? Is it this

638
00:36:40.920 --> 00:36:44.719
picture of a mountain? Oh, it's a coin. Why tell

639
00:36:44.760 --> 00:36:48.800
me about that coin? Well, my first dollar was selling newspapers,

640
00:36:48.920 --> 00:36:51.159
and I became obsessed with newspapers, and that's why I

641
00:36:51.159 --> 00:36:53.639
bought my first newspaper locally. And you know, you just

642
00:36:53.639 --> 00:36:56.159
get these amazing stories out of people when you can

643
00:36:56.199 --> 00:36:59.280
gamify things. And so the beauty of the fair Play

644
00:36:59.360 --> 00:37:03.159
cards if you realize that you listen to this podcast

645
00:37:03.239 --> 00:37:05.039
or have the book to understand, it's not a who

646
00:37:05.079 --> 00:37:07.199
does what? If you just say, well, I do them

647
00:37:07.199 --> 00:37:10.360
all and you do nothing, not helpful. That becomes just

648
00:37:10.559 --> 00:37:13.400
using the cards as a list. But if you understand

649
00:37:13.440 --> 00:37:16.800
their power in saying we're going to get buy in

650
00:37:16.920 --> 00:37:21.960
for the opposite of assumptions, the end of bias cass

651
00:37:22.239 --> 00:37:26.719
is structured decision making. We know that we know that

652
00:37:27.079 --> 00:37:29.679
when there was a hospital study where women were dying

653
00:37:29.679 --> 00:37:32.679
twice as much of blood clots as men, they weren't

654
00:37:32.679 --> 00:37:35.440
getting the medicine. There was assumptions that women are more hysterical,

655
00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:38.519
they complain of pain too much. When you had a

656
00:37:38.519 --> 00:37:43.239
structured decision making questionnaire that had actual questions to ask

657
00:37:43.280 --> 00:37:48.039
a patient women stop dying, that's all fair play is.

658
00:37:48.199 --> 00:37:52.000
It's a structured decision making tool to say, hey, there's

659
00:37:52.039 --> 00:37:54.880
one hundred cards here. I don't think we want a

660
00:37:54.920 --> 00:37:58.559
life of overwhelm and boredom and resentment. So why don't

661
00:37:58.559 --> 00:38:01.239
we look together to see what we can take off

662
00:38:01.280 --> 00:38:03.960
our deck, what we actually care about at this point

663
00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:06.760
in our life, what we can let go of. And

664
00:38:06.800 --> 00:38:09.159
that exercise is the beginning of how you enter the

665
00:38:09.159 --> 00:38:13.599
fair play system by building your deck together. And that's

666
00:38:14.039 --> 00:38:16.440
what I was telling you about that storytelling, because when

667
00:38:16.480 --> 00:38:18.960
you build your deck together, you start to tell yourself

668
00:38:19.079 --> 00:38:22.039
stories and your partner stories that you may never have

669
00:38:22.079 --> 00:38:25.920
told them, Like what I had. How important garbage was

670
00:38:26.000 --> 00:38:28.679
to me to keep in that deck because of my

671
00:38:28.800 --> 00:38:33.519
experience with the cockroaches and water bugs in my childhood apartment.

672
00:38:34.199 --> 00:38:39.199
So that is the beauty of I'd say anything, any

673
00:38:39.280 --> 00:38:42.480
type of tool that can help you have difficult conversations.

674
00:38:42.800 --> 00:38:45.880
And I said before that I know that you use

675
00:38:45.920 --> 00:38:50.639
the term equity over equality. Can you explain the importance

676
00:38:50.639 --> 00:38:51.440
of that distinction.

677
00:38:51.960 --> 00:38:53.719
Well, I'd seen some research where I was looking for

678
00:38:53.800 --> 00:38:57.880
perceived fairness because I don't actually know what actual fairness means.

679
00:38:58.000 --> 00:39:01.320
And in the nineties there was some weird scholarship but

680
00:39:01.400 --> 00:39:04.079
called equally shared parenting, which made literally no sense to

681
00:39:04.119 --> 00:39:07.920
me as an organizational management specialist. It was this idea, well, cass,

682
00:39:07.960 --> 00:39:09.800
if you do garbage today, I have to do it tomorrow.

683
00:39:10.119 --> 00:39:13.079
If you make I know, forty thousand dollars this year,

684
00:39:13.159 --> 00:39:15.719
I make forty thousand dollars next year. It just I

685
00:39:15.760 --> 00:39:19.239
don't know. It sounded my numbing scorekeeping. I wouldn't even know.

686
00:39:19.400 --> 00:39:22.639
There was these crazy, giant like tallies of how you

687
00:39:22.719 --> 00:39:25.079
know if you've done one thing the person does the

688
00:39:25.119 --> 00:39:26.920
other thing. It's the opposite of this idea of an

689
00:39:26.920 --> 00:39:29.400
ownership mindset, where of course you can redeal. It's not

690
00:39:29.440 --> 00:39:31.760
like I'm going to watch my toddlers forever. But when

691
00:39:31.800 --> 00:39:35.039
you're redealing, you're redealing with ownership mindset. Not I did

692
00:39:35.039 --> 00:39:36.440
it once. You have to do it. It's like, hey,

693
00:39:37.000 --> 00:39:38.599
I'm going to do the watching card from two to

694
00:39:38.639 --> 00:39:40.400
four today, and then how about you take it from

695
00:39:40.400 --> 00:39:43.000
four to six. And that doesn't mean no in secting

696
00:39:43.079 --> 00:39:44.880
each other, do the kidney to eat lunch or dinner.

697
00:39:44.920 --> 00:39:47.039
We know what timeframe it is. You have the full

698
00:39:47.079 --> 00:39:53.039
ownership mindset, that type of way in to you and

699
00:39:53.119 --> 00:39:59.360
your partner's life, and it becomes eye opening. It becomes,

700
00:39:59.400 --> 00:40:02.239
as we said, opposite of assumptions. Where as my daughter said,

701
00:40:02.280 --> 00:40:05.519
reminding me means, you know, assumptions make an ass out

702
00:40:05.559 --> 00:40:08.559
of you and me. The opposite of this is this

703
00:40:08.719 --> 00:40:14.239
idea of, as we said, the structured decision making lens,

704
00:40:14.280 --> 00:40:17.199
in which you can start building a life together that

705
00:40:17.559 --> 00:40:20.679
feels incredibly meaningful based on your values.

706
00:40:21.400 --> 00:40:25.559
Yeah, I mean it sounds like I would love to

707
00:40:25.599 --> 00:40:28.679
know how it's changed your life and your family dynamic.

708
00:40:28.960 --> 00:40:32.400
It's a great question. I think it's I mean, it's

709
00:40:32.480 --> 00:40:37.159
completely changed our lives. And I think Seth still makes

710
00:40:37.199 --> 00:40:40.239
more money than me quote unquote right, but we stop

711
00:40:40.360 --> 00:40:43.800
looking at value that way. He will argue that my

712
00:40:43.880 --> 00:40:46.559
career is more important than his because he understands that

713
00:40:46.559 --> 00:40:49.000
we are now looking at value differently. We're looking at

714
00:40:49.079 --> 00:40:53.880
value as things that give service back into our community,

715
00:40:53.960 --> 00:40:57.880
things that can change people's lives. He understands that cultural

716
00:40:58.000 --> 00:41:01.599
change is a lot harder job than his job as

717
00:41:01.599 --> 00:41:05.000
an investor. So we have a very different view of value.

718
00:41:05.119 --> 00:41:07.679
And what that has done is it's allowed set to

719
00:41:07.679 --> 00:41:11.639
be so much closer to our children. He is an

720
00:41:11.760 --> 00:41:16.440
active partner as opposed to a helper. And a lot

721
00:41:16.440 --> 00:41:20.039
of people say, well, how did you get there if

722
00:41:20.079 --> 00:41:22.719
they don't know this, if they didn't unpack it like

723
00:41:22.760 --> 00:41:26.079
you just beautifully did as an interviewer, And I'd say, well,

724
00:41:26.079 --> 00:41:28.239
do you just have to write a book about your

725
00:41:28.239 --> 00:41:30.920
partner where you portray them in a terrible light, that's

726
00:41:30.920 --> 00:41:33.719
all you have to do. But Seth allowed me to

727
00:41:33.760 --> 00:41:39.400
tell our story because even back in twenty sixteen when

728
00:41:39.440 --> 00:41:42.400
I started to write this, fair Play had been so

729
00:41:42.519 --> 00:41:45.840
meaningful and in our immediate circles and in the people

730
00:41:45.880 --> 00:41:48.480
who are beta testing the system. And so Seth said,

731
00:41:48.519 --> 00:41:50.400
even though this story is not going to be comfortable

732
00:41:51.559 --> 00:41:54.639
for me to hear, I'm going to let you tell

733
00:41:54.679 --> 00:41:57.320
it however you need to tell it, and however you

734
00:41:57.360 --> 00:42:01.360
need to portray me. Because the late at the end

735
00:42:01.360 --> 00:42:04.079
of the tunnel for our family has been so important.

736
00:42:04.639 --> 00:42:07.440
And for him, it's this understanding that being a parent,

737
00:42:07.960 --> 00:42:11.519
being a caretaker, an hour holding his child hand in

738
00:42:11.559 --> 00:42:14.639
the pediatrician's office is equally valuable to an hour in

739
00:42:14.679 --> 00:42:19.239
the boardroom. And I will tell you one thousand percent

740
00:42:19.760 --> 00:42:21.719
he didn't believe that at the beginning of this fair

741
00:42:21.760 --> 00:42:22.360
Play journey.

742
00:42:23.440 --> 00:42:29.760
Yeah, and I know that for the women in your

743
00:42:29.800 --> 00:42:36.639
audience and mine too, like who are so beaten down, overwhelmed, exhausted,

744
00:42:38.199 --> 00:42:40.119
you know which they all are. They tell me all

745
00:42:40.159 --> 00:42:43.239
the time that they all are, and they cannot see

746
00:42:43.519 --> 00:42:46.320
a way out of this. They've lost the sense of themselves.

747
00:42:46.840 --> 00:42:50.760
They have no space. They feel guilty for taking the

748
00:42:50.760 --> 00:42:55.440
tiniest bit of space for themselves because they're so convinced

749
00:42:55.440 --> 00:42:57.159
that their whole role is to be in service to

750
00:42:57.199 --> 00:43:02.599
the family. And I think this is absolutely potentially life changing.

751
00:43:02.639 --> 00:43:06.480
I'm so excited about Thank you. I know that you

752
00:43:06.519 --> 00:43:10.119
already have loads of you know, readers and listeners here

753
00:43:10.119 --> 00:43:11.960
in Australia, but if they haven't heard of this book,

754
00:43:11.960 --> 00:43:14.079
I want them to go out and get a copy

755
00:43:14.159 --> 00:43:19.679
and get the deck of cards and truly game changing.

756
00:43:19.840 --> 00:43:24.320
Thank you so much, and I am super excited to

757
00:43:24.360 --> 00:43:27.480
come back and talk to you about once you've done this,

758
00:43:27.599 --> 00:43:29.599
when you've done the fair play work, and once you've

759
00:43:29.599 --> 00:43:31.840
freed up that time, and once you've reconnected with your

760
00:43:31.840 --> 00:43:35.519
partner in a healthy way, how we can create that

761
00:43:35.599 --> 00:43:39.000
space to find that creative self expression, which is also

762
00:43:39.840 --> 00:43:41.079
just game changing.

763
00:43:41.599 --> 00:43:45.039
So thank you so much. I think that's the late

764
00:43:45.039 --> 00:43:48.000
at the end of the tunnel. As we said, this

765
00:43:48.079 --> 00:43:50.920
is the hard work, and I will say that thank

766
00:43:51.000 --> 00:43:54.199
you to your listeners because I just want to keep

767
00:43:54.239 --> 00:43:57.440
reminding everyone that this took me ten years to learn.

768
00:43:57.679 --> 00:44:02.719
So a lot of this work is highly triggering in

769
00:44:02.719 --> 00:44:04.920
a way that I didn't realize when I first wrote

770
00:44:05.480 --> 00:44:08.360
the book, because we're at such all of us are

771
00:44:08.400 --> 00:44:12.280
different stages, and so start where you are. Yeah, start

772
00:44:12.280 --> 00:44:14.800
where you are. Maybe it's just living journal. Go grab

773
00:44:14.880 --> 00:44:19.719
a journal, listen to this podcast, follow casts, stay with

774
00:44:19.800 --> 00:44:23.639
us on this journey because your time is diamonds and

775
00:44:23.719 --> 00:44:27.199
we see you and we see your invisible work. Yeah. Absolutely.

776
00:44:27.440 --> 00:44:30.119
And just one other point too, especially for the mothers,

777
00:44:30.199 --> 00:44:33.400
like just the role modeling that is so important here

778
00:44:33.480 --> 00:44:38.320
about how we demonstrate the value of women and women's

779
00:44:38.360 --> 00:44:41.079
time and our contribution in the world, because I think

780
00:44:41.239 --> 00:44:45.239
too often women who sacrifice themselves, you know, for their

781
00:44:45.280 --> 00:44:48.679
children or for their partner, you know, really don't consider

782
00:44:48.920 --> 00:44:52.079
what that is demonstrating for, particularly their girl children, but

783
00:44:52.119 --> 00:44:55.320
also boy children, and how important it is to balance

784
00:44:55.360 --> 00:44:58.000
that out. So if thank you so much for being here,

785
00:44:58.039 --> 00:45:00.480
and I cannot wait to talk to you again about unicorns.

786
00:45:00.920 --> 00:45:03.840
Thank you really love your work. Thanks so much. I'll

787
00:45:03.840 --> 00:45:04.599
see you next time.

788
00:45:08.480 --> 00:45:10.360
You know. What I really love about this fair play

789
00:45:10.360 --> 00:45:15.800
thing is that each person's responsibility for a task runs

790
00:45:15.800 --> 00:45:23.440
from conception to execution to completion. No half finished jobs,

791
00:45:23.840 --> 00:45:27.599
no clothing that has been wash dried and then left

792
00:45:27.639 --> 00:45:32.039
to sit in a pile. Conception, execution, completion. Honestly, it

793
00:45:32.119 --> 00:45:34.559
is a game changer. If you would like to apply

794
00:45:34.639 --> 00:45:36.840
the Fairplay system in your life or find out more,

795
00:45:36.920 --> 00:45:39.639
the Fairplay Book is available at all Good bookstores. The

796
00:45:39.679 --> 00:45:42.599
Fairplay Card game is also available to be ordered online

797
00:45:42.719 --> 00:45:44.880
or as I said, Eve does have a PDF version

798
00:45:44.880 --> 00:45:48.679
that you can download at her website. She's at Evrodski

799
00:45:48.800 --> 00:45:53.440
dot com. She's also at Fairplaylife dot com, so check

800
00:45:53.440 --> 00:45:55.800
out both of those websites or follow her on social

801
00:45:55.800 --> 00:45:57.280
media if you want to keep up with what Eve

802
00:45:57.400 --> 00:45:59.280
is doing, and as I said, she will be coming

803
00:45:59.320 --> 00:46:02.079
back to talk to us about Unicorn Space. I cannot

804
00:46:02.079 --> 00:46:05.199
wait for that conversation. I look forward to catching you

805
00:46:05.280 --> 00:46:13.039
on the next episode of Crappy to Happy listener