Happy and other ridiculous aspirations with Turia Pitt

0:02 A listener production. Hello and welcome back to Crappy to Happy. I am your host, Casdunn. I'm a clinical and coaching psychologist, a mindfulness meditation teacher and author of the Crappy to Have You books. I am so excited to be bringing new, brand new episodes of the show. As always, Thank you for listening. Thank you for all of your positive feedback on previous episodes, and please do give us a rating and a review on Apple Podcasts or the podcast one Australia app. If you enjoy the show, send me your comments hello at casdone dot com or send me a dm over on Instagram. I do read and appreciate all of your messages. Now a lot has changed since I was last in the studio. I'm now coming to you from my home and I'm chatting with my guests by video link because that's what we do. In twenty twenty, we're not able to be in the same state, let alone in the same room. Here in Australia and around the world. We've all been affected in different ways by the coronavirus pandemic, and I really think that now more than ever, we are in need of inspiration and real advice about how we can maintain our positivity, boost our emotional resilience, cope with uncertainty, and stay optimistic in these challenging times. With that being the case, rather than releasing ten episodes at a time going forward, we'll be bringing you a brand new episode every fortnight. And I am

1:32 thrilled to say that we have an incredible lineup of guests who are generously sharing their wisdom with me and with you so that we can all feel a little bit less crappy and more happy to kick things off. I am bringing you back one of our most popular guests from previous seasons to rear Pit. She needs no introduction here in Australia, but if you are one of our many international listeners. Was caught in a grass fire while competing in an ultra marathon in twenty and eleven. She sustained full thickness burns to sixty five percent of her body, and not only did she beat the odds by surviving and learning to walk again, she went on to compete in two Iron Man competitions, including the World Championships in Hawaii. She is now the mother of two beautiful boys. She's written multiple best selling books, including her latest Happy and other Ridiculous Aspirations. She's a humanitarian and she is an all round fabulous, smart, funny woman. We all want to be her friend, and I could not resist the opportunity to talk to her about what she's learned and experienced about what it makes to be truly happy.

2:44 Here's Churia. Churia, thank you so much for coming back on to the Crappy to Happy podcast. You are our first ever repeat guest. Yes, and the last time you came onto the show, obviously, lie listeners loved what you had to say. And it's a crazy time. A lot has happened since the last time I spoke with you. You've had a baby, the whole world has changed, and you've put out this book called Happy and I'm Holding it Up and other Ridiculous Aspirations, which is such a perfect time for this book. So I was really keen to get you back in and have a chat about all things happiness. Awesome. Okay, I think I'm ready for it.

3:27 So let's just dive straight in. Chrey, you wrote this book. Like I said, it is a really great time for this book because we are going through such a challenging time. It's an amazing book too. I have been reading it. But you started writing this book kind of pre COVID, pre fires, pre all of the tragedy that we've experienced this year. I'm just curious to know, like, what inspired you to want to write a book about happiness? Well, you see, cas, I can predict the future, so I knew that this year would be a really hard time for a lot of people. So I knew I just had to get a book out there in time. The book, I get asked a lot of questions from people, like through emails and through social media and stuff. And one of the main couple of questions I get is how am I so happy? And how am I so happy given everything that I've been through? And when I checked in with myself, I kind of realized I was just as happy as I was before the fire, if not happier. And I thought that was really interesting that someone should go through a life changing, catastrophic experience and come out the other side just as happy as ever.

4:38 So I started doing some research. I read a lot of really cool papers. Sonia Live and Mescue. I'm sure you know of her cash, but she was one of the original researchers who determined the happiness pie chart. And there's a quote out there. I'm not sure if you've heard of it not or not, but fifty percent of our happiness is predetermined by our genes, right, so how happy we can actually be? Kind of restricted by our genes. Then forty percent, though we can influence or we can change by our intentional activities. So things like practicing gratitude, being kind to someone else, savoring the smaller moments, working towards things that are meaningful for us, all of those things you can do to actually make yourself happier. And there's only a really small to ten percent that is attributed to our life circumstances. So that means whether you win the lottery or you lose your leg in a car crash, after a couple of years, you'll reach an equilibrium of your happiness set point. And you're not in your head because I know that you know you would probably know this, But when I read that paper, I thought it was really fascinating.

5:47 Oh, it is fascinating. And yeah, the reason I'm lodding my head and I'm smiling is because I was actually going to mention that exact same research that you just mentioned about whether you win the lottery or you come out you know, a pair of that you come back to this set point, and which is clearly like it clearly demonstrates that if you're looking outside of us for our external circumstances to change in order to feel happier, than we're looking in the wrong place. And I was really, I guess, intrigued by what you just said about the fact that you didn't just come back to your happiness kind of baseline set point, you actually feel like you are potentially even happier. What do you put that down to.

6:27 I think it's because, like when I had my accident, I was a lot younger, I was twenty four, and I was personally always focused on achieving things and doing things and doing really great things, and I never stopped to reflect on the awesome things that I did. I never stopped to think about all of the people in my life that I was grateful for. I never stopped to think about all the incredible opportunities I had and all of the privilege privileges that were bestowt on me, you know, as a product of growing up in Australia and living in this real awesome country of ours. So I think, you know, a key difference is like these days, when I start my warnings, I start them by thinking of three things that I'm genuinely grateful for. And Old Tree would have never have done that. She would have been like, well, that's a lot of rubbish. Like if I'm grateful, that means I'm not you know, striving, and I'm not achieving, and I don't want to do more with my life. So I think it's that I am more conscious of this incredible journey that we call life.

7:28 I am accepting of the fact that part of happiness is that I may not be happy every single day. I may have days where I might be stressed, tired, cranky, disappointed, hurt, and that all of those emotions are perfectly valid and a part of the human experience. And so I think all of those things I've kind of learned over the past decade, and I think that's what helps me to be happier than I was before the fire. So it's been a real shift in perspective, I guess. And it sounds like almost a shift in values, would you say, I think.

8:08 So, And like, I think also that comes with age as well, you know, like I'm ten years older, I've got kids. The focus is no longer just on me. It's about these two little humans in my life. Yeah. I think it's a whole host of different things. It's things I've learned along the way. It was writing this book that made me understand a lot of this stuff a little bit more. And then just getting older and becoming a bit more mature and a bit wiser, and also giving less flucks as well, which is a really no, it's really it's a really cool thing about getting older. No one tells you that when you're young, but like the older I get, I seem to be like caring less about what other people think, which I think is really really awesome.

8:50 I think it is too, and I think that you have potentially got to that point even quicker than what some people do. Like I think some people get to their forties and fifties is before they realize they can give less fucks. So as obviously, as a result of your own experience and what you've been through and as you say, just maturity, than you've perhaps got there more quickly than other people. I was interested that when I mean, you start off the book saying, who am I to talk about happiness. I'm not a psychologist, I'm not an expert. I think a lot of people would consider you to be very qualified based on what you've been through, the fact that you were a living, breathing example of somebody who has come through a tragedy and still is able to see the positive and make the best of it.

9:34 Having said that, you did go out and back it all up with research, and you interviewed a whole lot of people, and really interesting people too, And I'm just curious to know, as you gathered up that information and you did your research and you talk to these people, what was it that you realized you had been doing right without perhaps necessarily even knowing that it was the right thing, or that there was the research there to it up. And I guess also part B, what did you realize that you could be doing that you maybe weren't okay? So part A of that question, like, I've always known that our relationships are really important. But having said that, you know, it is hard for us to stop what we're doing with ourselves and our own lives and try and prioritize our relationships and try and you know, do something for our partners or being more present with our kids, or drop over our meal to a friend who's you know, going through cancer or whatever. So even though I knew that relationships were really important, they also felt like something that I could get to when I was done with what I was doing right now. And I spect to Milky Wayking, he's the CEO of the Happiness Research Institute in Denmark, Like, how cool is it that they even have a happiness research institute, And he really emphasized the importance of relationships, of investing in our relationships, and you know, he had a really good example. If you cast, if you think about like one of the happiest days of

11:07 your life, can you just tell me a little bit about that for a second. Oh well, I guess maybe my wedding, my daughter being born, you know. Yeah, okay, So those events, all of those there was other people in them. And I found that a really powerful example, because our happiest memories in life, the times when we feel the best, is when we're with other people. So I found that really interesting and that really made me change how I did things in my life and also really made me reprioritize how I was spending my time. Things that I didn't do before reading the book, Like I'm not a saint. There's still heaps of stuff that I put in the book that I try to do, but some days I don't. And one of the things was making your bed. And my partner is a massive advocate for making a bed, and I was I was like, it's such a waste of time. You're literally just gonna hop back in it at night, Like why would you even bother? But making your bed is like this keystone habit that we have, and the thinking is like, if you can make your bed, then maybe you can drink two letters of water. And then if you can drink two letters of water, maybe you can go to the gym.

12:17 And if you can go to the gym, maybe you can eat a healthier dinner. So it's like this real starting point in your day where if you started off right, then hopefully the rest of the day pans out really well. I like that, do you make your bed? Do you make your bed? If you call just you know, pulling the dinner up, making the bed. Yeah, there's no hospital corners. Or anything like that. Not at no, I'm just after progress and not perfection. I just like pull the doner back and like chuckle the pillows on. It's still but it actually makes me feel better, like seeing that my bed is made. There's a lot too that I think. I know a lot of people talk about that making the bed, just being starting the day off right psychologically, And you're right, are you? Like it's it's just those little tiny things, tiny habits that can just kick off a chain of positive behavior. I'm curious to just go back to what you said about not being happy all the time. I think that's important to cover when we're all talking about happiness, and you know, I think sometimes we have there are people who have a misconception. Perhaps could you talk to that a bit about that it is not about being happy all the time.

13:26 Yeah, totally. Like, for sure, there's a perception that if you're not happy and excited and enthusiastic, that maybe there's something wrong with you, that maybe you're not doing whatever whatever it is that you're doing, you're not doing it right. So I think there's definitely that perception. I think also feeling a bitter, envious, jealous, angry, they're not really comfortable feelings. So obviously, if we could have it our own way, we'd love to be happy every day, and we'd love to be excited and we'd love to be motivated all the time, but life doesn't work like that. And I think when we can drop that bullshit facade that everything's okay and everything's fine, and really just accept and acknowledge how we are actually feeling, whether that's stressed or annoyed, or irritated or disappointed, and we just allow ourselves to just sit in that feeling, as uncomfortable as it may be.

14:22 I find in my experience that feeling dissipates tends to dissipate a lot quicker than if I just lie to myself and say no, no, no, I'm fine, everything's fine, It's all going to be fine. Yeah. So I think just really acknowledging, acknowledging how we're feeling, and understanding that it's actually okay to not feel good all of the time. It's part of being human. Yeah, And I think just to that point, you know, a lot of when we think that we need to feel good all of the time, it can often lead to those quick, fixed kind of behaviors. I guess we go reach for having a glass of wine to take off the stress or comfort eating and then those things can become problematic in themselves, and I was curious to see that in your book you actually talk about food, right, what we eat. I don't think that's been covered a lot in the happiness books that are out there, that link between what we are consuming and how we're how we nourish ourselves, and the effect that has on our mental health and our psychological state.

15:28 Oh, I think it has a massive, massive impact. Like if you're eating shit food and you're not moving your body and you're not sleeping on enough, you'll feel like shit. You know what I mean. You don't need a scientist to tell you that. Everyone will know that in themselves. But I think if you are taking the time to exercise whatever exercise you like, whether you like walking, whether you like roller skating, eating well and eating good foods that are good for us, and trying to get enough sleep, when you do those three things, as boring as they sound to do, they don't sound very exciting. But if you try and do those things, you will feel more emotionally resilient, and I think you'll feel like you have more control over your day, and I think you'll be better equipped to deal with the inevitable stepbacks that life throws away. So whenever I know, whenever I feel stressed or angry or irritated or annoyed, like I'll accept that feeling.

16:28 I'll acknowledge it, and then I'll try and do things that make me feel better and better in the long term. So like a glass of one does make me feel better, but I might not feel better the next day, so I'll try to. I know, if I go for a run, I'll come home and I'll feel clear headed, I'll feel energized, I'll be in doorphins pumping through my body, and I'll feel like, Okay, right now I can think about this problem that I'm facing, or now I can work my way through this challenge. Yeah, healthy code, Yeah yeah, But it's like it's the first thing to go out the window, right whenever we get stressed, Oh of course, And I think whenever we are I feel like we are really stuck in a state of despair or we're feeling really lethargic and like we can't get out of bed to kind of check in with ourselves and just think, okay, well, what's one thing I could do that I know is going to make me feel better. Maybe I could make myself a really nice on what this morning. Maybe I can go and sit on the balcony and get some funder me and drink my cup of tea without my phone in my hand. Maybe I could text a girlfriend and we can go for a walk together around the block.

17:35 Not so much driving for that cheesel six pack, push ups and chin ups down the beach in front of everyone. But we're just looking to doing those things, those acts of self care that we know are going to make us feel better about ourselves. Chharia, you spoke to a whole lot of people in this book and get up their take on happiness. I guess did you find any common threads through all of those? So we're talking about people like you talk to doctor Libby, Zoe Foster Blake, Mick Fanning, your friend Kate. I wanted to get to her who went through the fire with you. Was there anything that was common amongst all of those in terms of their take on happiness.

18:15 I think all of them understood in some way their fragility of life. So they were all really aware that our time on earth is not a given, and it's something that we shouldn't take for granted, and all of them, in various forms, were all really grateful for the life that they had. And I found that really interesting because you've got people I interviewed, people like, you know, Zoe Foster Blake, who is a you know, has launched he owned realty brand. And then we've got Mick Fanning, who's three times World surf But then we've got people like Kate Sanderson, the other woman who was with me in the fire, Lee Sales, the anchor of the seven thirty Report, and then Edie Jack who the Holocaust survivor. He's actually written a recent book as well, The Happiest Man on Earth, which is a really really incredible read. So they all had a sense of that life is fragile and it's not a given, but also a sense of gratitude for the life that they had, which I thought was really interesting.

19:14 And one thing that I picked up to is, and I haven't finished reading the whole book, but just from the few that I did read, that they all seem to have just some sense of purpose or some sense of meaning. And we often talk about like having a sense of meaning in life, like a meaningful goals, But then what do you say to people who get hung up on well, I don't know what my purpose is? Oh yeah, yeah, can we talk about that? Yeah? Yeah, yeah. I mean I feel like we really just need to take the pressure off ourselves, because like, if you ask me what my purpose is, I'd be like, oh, fuck, actually I don't know. Like, I like what I do for work. I love writing, I like speaking to people like you. I like creating good content that people like.

19:56 But yeah, I don't know if if someone said to me, like, what my life purpose, I'd kind of get bogged down in that the heavy weight of that question. So rather than you know, asking yourself what your purpose is, I reckon just go with things like, well, what do you like to do, what are you interested in? What are you more curious about, what do you want to learn more about? And just go from there, because I think people who do live meaningful lives or lives full of purpose just follow areas of interest and areas of passion, like I'm sure you do, cash, and it all just builds from there. Yeah exactly, Yeah, And I love I think I think it's Liz Gilbert who first came out maybe a few years ago talking about just follow your curiosity. Yeah, and I think that's such sound advice because people do feel that pressure to follow your passion, follow your purpose, and they go, well, I don't know what that is.

20:47 And like I always find it strained, Like does that mean we only have one purpose in life? Like I have to find just one and name it, and then I just have to embody that and be that for the rest of my life. Like what if I want to change mye or if I do that one thing for ten years and then I decided I don't want to do it anymore, Like does that mean I can't change it? So I think rather than asking ourselves our purpose and all of the gravity that comes with answering that question, just again, like Liz Gilbert says, follow whatever you're curious and or follow whatever you want to learn more about or whatever you're interested in.

21:29 It is really important. And I know you cover this as well in the book to have Meaningful Goals, and Year said before when you were young, you're pursuing achievement, ambition and career and all of that. Would you say that your part of what has shifted for you is the kind of goals that are meaningful to you. I think I'm still a really ambitious and driven person. I still really love setting rig goals for myself and achieving those goals. But I think what I do now is I am grateful. I'm grateful for for every step I take on that journey towards that goal. Whereas before I would have been like, well, hurry up, we haven't achieved it yet, Like what's wrong with you? Why haven't you achieved it yet? So I was probably just harsher harsher with myself, And so now after my experience, I'm a lot more compassionate with myself. I am more grateful for every step I take towards the goals. But I still think I'm just as driven and ambitious as I was before the fire.

22:35 On the flip side, something else that's really fundamental or important for our happiness is this idea of just having fun and play. And I think that's really when I talk about that a lot, and I think it's underrated. People think, well, in our world that we're supposed to be productive and busy all of the time. So let's talk about that then, the importance of actually just having fun. Yeah, And like I think, especially when you are a like a mom, it's really hard to prioritize yourself and then like prioritize yourself to go and have fun. It seems like a really flippant waste of time. And you know, there's all of these articles on the internet how to get more into your day, how to be more productive, how to triple your productivity, all of these hacks that you can use to make yourself more productive. And so when you think about like taking an hour to lie in the sun and read a book, or taking an hour to go down for a single for a surf, it feels kind of wasteful with your time. But I look at it in the sense as I know in myself that if I've taken some time for me to do something for myself, something that I find fun, whether that's going for a surf, going for a rie, catching up with girlfriends for lunch, getting a massage, sitting in the sun, bouncing with my kids on the trampoline. When I take time to do that sort of stuff, I feel better. I feel happier, and I feel more energized.

24:07 And I think in our world, like there's so much shit out there that makes us feel bad about ourselves already. So I think if we really just try and take that time for ourselves to have fun, we'll actually enjoy enjoy our day a lot more, and we'll enjoy our lives a lot more. When I think about taking a little bit time out for fun as well, is it actually makes you more productive because you've had that, You've had that metime. You're not sitting down at your desk resenting the work that you're doing. You're not with your family feeling like you haven't gotten a break from them. I think it really does make you more present and enjoy your life a lot more. But you know what, even when I know that, and you're probably the same, like even when we know that, it's still so easy to get pulled into it. But I've got more work to do. I've just got to get this other thing done. We've got to really consciously pull ourselves out of that busy mide, right.

25:00 Yeah, for sure. I mean I've got the work I do. I find it fun and I find it interesting. Well, see that's what I mean. So on a Saturday night, my family will be in bed, and I'll pull out my laptop and I'll have a glass of wine and I'll sit down and I'll write and part of me will feel like a loser because it's a Saturday night, Like, shouldn't I be out like seeing people and like doing something fun. But then you've got to remind yourself that your idea of fun is going to be different from someone else's idea of fine. And my idea of fun is genuinely with my computer with a glass of wine, writing like I really love that stuff, and I think, I guess it's great that I feel like my work and what I do for work, I find parts of it fun. But Liz Gilbert said something else really interesting.

25:48 She said, all work involves some kind of shit sandwich, as in some kind of there's some aspect of your work that you don't enjoy, And I'm sure your job's the same cast my job is the same as well. So some aspects I really enjoy find really fun. Are the aspects are just like eating a shit sandwich. Yeah, that's good advice to you, like. Eat shit sandwiches. No, we're not going to be having fun all of the time. I was also interested to talk with you about like when we experience a tragedy such as you have, or a trauma, and bearing in mind what the world is going through at the moment and people are going through a really tough time. There are some people who come out of a traumatic experience and are just completely destroyed by it. And there are some people who come out of a traumatic experience and who actually experience what we call post traumatic growth, like they not only survive, but they really thrive. I think you could be described as one of those people. And I'm curious to know what came out of your talking to people and your research about what is it that makes the difference? Do you think way is it that some people do fare so much better than others.

27:00 I think it's a combination of reasons, like, for example, having strong support around you. So I was lucky in a sense because I had my friends and family and the medical team that I got given were all brilliant. They really rallied around me, so I had that support. I think you well, I think it's very rare to get through anything, particularly some kind of traumatic event, if you don't have people in your corner, people supporting you. So I think that definitely was one thing I think for me, I saw a psychologist every week for about two years. I think she was instrumental in my recovery. I think mental health has really been destigmatized somewhat, but I still think we've got a long way to go.

27:43 And I think, you know, if our car needs fixing, we take it to a mechanic. If we want to get our eyebrows waxed, we go to a beautician. And I think if we're dealing with something, if we're dealing with whether it's we've got some kind of emotional turnohile, or you've been through some kind of trauma, like to go and see someone, go and seek professional help, see accounselor see a psychologist. There's some amazing support services out there like Beyond Blue and Lifeline, and there's a whole chapter in this book on getting through hard times. But there was some really interesting research done by a guy named his surname was Penny Baker. He had this idea that if you start writing down your thoughts and feelings about what happened to you, you just do it for fifteen minutes. I think, over the course of a week, that will help you feel better and that will help you try and find the reasoning of the rationale for you went through. And I can't remember what he called that technique, but the book was called expressive writing. So I was also doing that, even though at the time I didn't realize that that was an actual technique. I was just writing because I like writing. I was just writing down my thoughts and feelings, trying to process my experience and what happened to me. So I think that as well, that really helped me.

29:12 That Pennybaker approach, the Pennybaker protocol. I've heard it called. I've only come across that research in the last little while couple of years, say myself, and it's fascinating. It is fascinating. Yeah, it's cool, isn't it. Yeah, So for four days, it's like for four days, for twenty minutes, and if you just write your thoughts and feelings about this, whether it's a trauma or something you're struggling with, an emotional upheaval. And I actually started getting some of my clients to do that, and they do. They say, like, there is a shift, there is a distinct shift, and then down the track, like the research bears it out that you know, seven or eight months later, people are in a whole different place emotionally and their perspective is shifted and they can make meaning of the event just from doing four days, and it's so like manageable for people. That's what I love about it.

30:02 Yeah, like anyone can sit down and just you know, right, And it doesn't have to be something that's going to win a Pulitzer Prize. It doesn't need to make sense drammatically. It can have spelling mistakes. I think the main idea is like, so often we just get stuck in our heads. We've got all of this shit just swirling around, and it's really hard for us to make sense of that noise in our heads. And I think it's so beneficial for us to get it out of our heads onto paper. I think that really helps us think about it a lot more clearly. But oh yeah, I didn't know about this research until I started writing this book, and I found it fascinating. Yeah, and it's so cool that you've been using it with your clients and you've noticed that they've had an improvement. That's amazing.

30:48 Last year I started running retreats too, of these four days retreats, and I would give people out a journal and say, now before we start, if you want to use this four days to do a four day you know, journaling exercise and people actually would take that up and use that time to do that. It's just so effective. By the same take, and so is seeing a psychologist like you who can recommend, yes that you try this you know Petnibraker technique or you know, there's all sorts of strategies and all sort of sorts of tips and tools that a psychologist can can share with you and help you deal with whatever you're going through. And I think that's a really that's another point that you make in the book, like not every one of these ideas or these techniques is going to stick for you or resonate with you, but it is really about trying different approaches and then checking in with yourself about how do does this have a positive effect? Does this make a difference.

31:39 There are so many strategies in the book, and like, this is not the intention that someone goes, right, Okay, I'm going to write a list of there's hundreds of strategies and I'm going to do all of them every single day. That that's not the intention. I guess the intension was just to read it. If you read something to go yeah, nah, that that sounds doesn't sound like me. That's fine, you know, like maybe only one or two things will resonate with you, but if they implement just a couple of them, and it helps them feel better about themselves, feel like they have more control over their life, and dare I say, it makes them happier and I'll be happy with that. Charia. Just getting back quickly to your friend Kate, who was We love Kate right, So Kate was in the fire.

32:20 I had not heard about Kate before reading about her in your book. She sustained injuries as well. I was so fascinated to read that she has gone on to become a volunteer firefighter. I know she's crazy, She's crazy. But I also know even though you are not fighting fires, you have done the firewalk experience on a Tony Robbins weekend. Yes. Yes, yes, okay, yes, yes I did that. I was just curious to know. Do you think there is something significant about for you and Kate in your own different ways, facing down that fear, like facing the fire, you know, down the thing that caused you so much trauma as a key aspect of your healing or moving on from that.

33:09 I don't know. I don't know, because I remember when I did, I did the Lake arga swim, which is this big swim in the Kimberly's with Kate and the other people that were in the gorge with us and got injured at the same time, and sixty minutes were with us, and everyone from the fire went back to the site of the actual fire, the gorge where we were burnt, except for me. I didn't go back there. And it wasn't like I was afraid, but I just felt for me. I didn't really see the benefit in revisiting a place that had hurt me. And I talked about it with my partner Michael, and we just, I don't know, we were just like, yeah, we actually just don't want to go. We couldn't articulate why we didn't want to go, but we just didn't want to go.

34:01 And so we spend our day like exploring gorgeous and like swimming in the water and everything. We had a great day. So I don't know. I think maybe for Kate, like obviously, if she is literally in a firefighter's outfit fighting a fire, I'd say probably it might have been important for her to face her fear of fire. But for me, I don't think so much. But at that Tony Robins event that you just mentioned. I do remember distinctly when I was standing there on the edge of the hot coals, like this internal battle was going on in my head, and part of me just felt like maybe doing this, I could go from that event being the biggest tragedy in my life to being one of the biggest triumphs. So I do remember that moment. I don't know if that answers the question, Cass. I think a more succinct away it would have been like, yeah, kind of sort of.

35:01 Well, I don't know. I for a lot of people, obviously you've written about it in your books before, but I'm not sure that people really I mean, you write also about the New South Wales fires that we just experienced last summer, and it's only when you write about it that it really hits home, like just the magnitude of what you went through, like and they're just having a fire so close, and how that impacts you, for example, differently to how it would impact it's all terrifying for anybody, but how it impacts you having had the experience that you had and just even a firewalk, you know, it's a different experience for you than anybody else who might also. Ye, yeah, yeah, totally totally, well yeah, because people I was with were like, yeah, that was nothing, that was easy, whereas I was like, like literally terrified. But when the fires were happening on the south coast, like there was fires burning to the north west of the south the rest of the west of Verset, when I went out of my back and I could, you know, see it with smoke, and there was embers falling in our backyards, and obviously I was really stressed, really anxious, really terrified.

36:08 And I also felt useless because I wasn't rescuing neighbors from neighboring towns, I wasn't doing any food drops, I wasn't out fighting any fires. I was heavily pregnant, I had my toddler at home with me, and that whole time I was just in my head, just focusing on that noise, just almost obsessing about how these fires were affecting me personally. And it was only when I shifted that thinking and started thinking, well, how could I give back to my community, How could I do something that would be useful, How could I help other people? What could I be grateful for? Right now? It was only when I started to think like that and put my focus elsewhere, that that fear and that terror and that anxiety dissipated and it was really cool. A girlfriend came over and we came up with this idea spend with them.

37:07 I don't know if you ever heard of it. Of course, of course I did, amazing yes. And it was just a little social initiative where we would profile businesses on an Instagram page and then anyone from all over Australia or anyone all over the world could find out about that business, purchased something from that business and then put money back into that local town Bruce Moraw and help fire affected communities all around Australia. And we started it, we had no idea what we were doing. We created the logo and canva and I think within a couple of days we had like close to two hundred thousand followers. The campaign took off like wildfire, and I think that experience for me, number one, it really crystallized, like especially when we are stressed or anxious or fearful, to try and think about others doing something for someone else, giving back. That's all part of being a client human, which you know, all of that stuff helps us to be happy, which I write about in the book. But when we're stressed and anxious and fearful, we are very much focused on ourselves and I think it's it can be really useful for us to try and shift that and think about, well, what could we do to help someone else, how could we be of service to our community? And so for me doing that campaign, look at it helped a lot of businesses and it helped a lot of people all around Australia. But it also really helped me, really helped me manage my emotions whilst living, you know, in the middle of a bushfire crisis.

38:38 It was amazing to watch. I watched it obviously unfold at the time. This little thing you set up. You put a post up on your personal Instagram, so go and check out this page and just exploded, which I think. I mean, it's a huge kudos to you and Grace who set it up. But it was also really a reflection of how a lot of us were feeling in terms of just wanting to help. Yeah, totally, But that's the same with the coronavirus as well. Right, Like people might feel useless, and I think if you're feeling useless, like, try just doing something for someone else. Try and make your meal for one of your neighbors and leaving it out the door. Try calling up a girlfriend who you know is also having a really hard time and saying, hey, let's go for a walk. Like the sun's out, we could go for a walk and just get a little bit of you know, a little bit of sun, and asking try you know, I always like to try and do some really good bits of writing or some really good content that I hope people will find valuable and they'll appreciate. So I think, especially if you're feeling a bit blur and a bit stuck and useless, just try and do something for someone else, Try and do something kind and then see if that actually makes you feel better, because I can guarantee you it will.

39:53 As you said, it is in the book and it is proven by research. So I'm also found it really interesting that you have you're writing this book about happiness, and this book about happiness is you and you can't get it, Like you know that you need to focus on this book about happiness, and instead you're going out and creating this initiative to help other people, which ironically is fundamental to happiness. You were just like living it as in real time. Look, I had to I had to make sure what I put in the book was verified with personal experience. So you know, I just want to ask you now to come back to the coronavirus. So obviously this has been a really, really tough time. Depending on where you live, it's affected us all differently. You know, clearly the guys I think even at the time that this podcast goes to, where there's probably people still in lockdown or just coming out of lockdown. Based on what you have learned and from your own experience, what advice have you got for people to who are struggling, who are really struggling and it tough to find any silver lining, and what's been a pretty crap year.

41:04 Yeah, I would just accept it and acknowledge it, say yeah, today's this year's been shit, and remind yourself that if anyone else was in your situation, they would feel the same. If anyone else was in lockdown for pretty much months on end, they would feel shit, They would feel like crap. So just accept it and acknowledge it. The next thing I would say is a bit of perspective does always help So whether you're getting that perspective by helping somebody else, like we just talked about cash, or reading some really good books written by some really awesome people. Eddie Jack who I mentioned him earlier, he wrote The Happiest Man on Earth. He's a Holocaust survivor. I found that book to be extraordinary. They can read one of my books.

41:50 They can watch really cool movies, inspirational movies like The Diving Bell and The Butterfly, the Intouchables. All of those things will just help people to get a little bit of effective on their own lives. And the last thing I would say is to you know, if they're really struggling, to remind themselves that you know, they don't have to do it alone. Just like I said, if their car is not working, they'd go to a mechanic. If their eyebrows needwaxing, they go to a reutrition. If they're really struggling to reach out to someone, reach out to a support service, go see a counselor see a psychologists, because I think doing those things will be extremely beneficial for their mental well being.

42:31 And a reminder that you can have medical appointments and psychology appointments by telehealth, you don't have to leave home, So that's been a really important change this year. Churia, did you voice the narrate the audiobook for Happy and Other Ridiculous Aspirations? Mate? I did the first like five pages, and they kept making me do it again. So I was like, no, I'm not going to this is like what that was perfect? Come on? And so I didn't. I didn't narrate the book. I didn't narrate the Madeline Leven's narrated it though, and I loved her voice. They didn't tell me who was going to be narrating it. What they sent through a test file, and I just loved how she spoke because I don't know, she was almost like sassy in some parts but then a bit sarcastic in others, and I really appreciated that. I thought that was really cool. So she did an awesome job.

43:27 Oh well, I'm glad to hear it because this book, for anybody who is thinking of buying it, this book is like having a conversation with you. It is so your voice. It is full of f bombs and bullshits, and it is very much real talk. It is practical, real advice, and the whole time I've been reading it, I've been reading it with your voice like in my head. So I'm glad to hear that, Madeline is it has done it justice. Yeah, she's done it justice. She's probably done a better job than I could do. And I don't really say that about many people. It really is fantastic. And I've read a lot of books about happiness and even written a couple myself, and this is right up there. So I really recommend that people go and get this book. It is a gem.

44:08 So Charia, thank you so much. This has been amazing. Thank you for coming back on and sharing your time. It's so good. It's so good to be able to see you. And thank you so much for having me as your first repeat guess. It has been a genuine pleasure to spend three quarters of an hour with you. It's been really nice. And you thanks. Trea Churia's book Happy and Other Ridiculous Aspirations is available now in all bookstores, or you can sign up to be part of her letter gang at Juriapit dot com. Of course, you can always catch up with me on Facebook and Instagram or at my website Caste dot com. And I always appreciate getting your feedback.

44:49 Hello at castone dot com is where you can email me. If you do enjoy the show, please give us a rating and a review, and don't forget to subscribe so that you don't miss our new episodes, which will be coming out now every second week. I look forward to having you join me on the next episode of Crappy to Happy. Crappy to Happy is presented by Cast Dunn, produced by Davis Lensky, Audio production by Darcy Thompson. Listener