Oct. 9, 2023

Hard Truths about Self-Loss with Sara Kuburic

Hard Truths about Self-Loss with Sara Kuburic
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Hard Truths about Self-Loss with Sara Kuburic
Hard Truths about Self-Loss with Sara Kuburic
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Season 10 Psychology & Neuroscience Personal Growth & Healing

Cass talks with existential therapist, Dr Sara Kuburic aka "The Millennial Therapist" about what it means to lose your Self and why it's so important to do the work of re-connecting with your true Self.Cass and Sara discuss:

  • What self-loss is and how it happens
  • The difference between inauthenticity and self-loss
  • How we lose ourselves in relationships and when NOT to compromise
  • The role of habits in shaping our identity
  • Why we need to take individual responsibility for the life we have created regardless of our personal history

The Millennial Therapist on Instagram
www.sara-kuburic.com
Book: It's On Me

Connect with Cass:

www.cassdunn.com
www.instagram.com/cassdunn_xo

Contact Crappy to Happy:

Email: hello@crappytohappypod.com
www.crappytohappypod.com
www.instagram.com/crappytohappypod
www.tiktok.com/@crappytohappypod


Are you a coach, therapist, service provider or solopreneur struggling with self-doubt and imposter syndrome? I'd love to talk to you! (for market research purposes only!)

Book a call with me to share your experience.

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Transcript
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This is Crappita Happy and I am your host, Cass Dunn.

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I'm a clinical and coaching psychologist. I'm mindfulness meditation teacher

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and of course author of the Crappita Happy books. In

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this show, I bring you conversations with interesting, inspiring, intelligent

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people who are experts in their field and who have

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something of value to share that will help you feel

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less crappy and more happy. Sarah Kubrick is an existential psychotherapist, consultant, writer,

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and a columnist for USA Today. Most recently, she is

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the author of a fabulous book called It's on Me

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Embrace hard truths, discover yourself, and change your life. You

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may know Sarah as the Millennial Therapist, which is the

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title of her very popular Instagram account, where she shares

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tips and content to normalize human experiences and encourage self reflection.

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That account has one point six million followers and counting,

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so obviously resonating with people around the world. Sarah was

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born in Yugoslavia and had survived two wars by the

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time she was nine years old, eventually fleeing to Canada,

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where she was raised. She is passionate about helping people

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seek change and live authentic, free, and meaningful lives. If

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you have ever felt lonely, unfulfilled, trapped in roles, in relationships,

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in cycles of self sabotage and wrong decisions, according to Sarah,

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it doesn't have to be so difficult. Sarah shares tools

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to help us to stop sleepwalking our way through the

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life that we don't want and step into our most vibrant, authentic,

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and meaningful self. Sarah, Welcome to the Crapit a Happy Podcast.

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Such a pleasure to meet you.

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Thank you so much for having me. I am very,

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very excited to be here.

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I have been a fan of your Instagram page, like

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millions of other people for quite a while, and I'm

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even more of a fan now that I have had

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the opportunity to read your book, which is called It's

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On Me, and I am so thrilled to discuss with

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you all things. Self loss such a huge, relevant topic

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and you have covered it so well in your book.

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So let's just start with when you talk about self loss,

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what does that mean? How does it happen?

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Yeah, I thought it would be fun to throw in

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another phrase. We have self love, self realization, self actualization,

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and I was like, why not throwing a word that

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I think would describe pretty accurately what a lot of

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us feel but don't know how to articulate. And for me,

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self loss is self estrangement or lack of alignment and

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congruency within yourself. And I think that sounds very kind

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of heady and theoretic, but all I'm trying to say,

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it's that moment of like waking up one day and going,

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I don't actually know who I am, and I don't

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really know how I got here. I'm not really sure

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that the life I woke up to is the life

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that is my own and the life that I want,

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And I actually don't even know who the person that

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I call myself is. So it's that intense feeling of

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disorientation and emptiness and perhaps even a bit of brokenness.

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Yeah, and in your experience, because I know you work

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a lot. You know, you're a therapist and you work

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a lot with people around this topic. Is it normally

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a moment or is it I don't know. Is it

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more just like a gradual kind of feeling or a

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sense of dissatisfaction, or you know, just feeling a little

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bit like I'm not on the right path as opposed

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to like a big like, oh my god, who am I?

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What am I doing here?

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For sure?

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And I think for a lot of people it's just

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it's almost like a little haze or a little discomfort.

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And I think that when you face that haze and

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discomfort and you see it for what it is, that

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moment can feel big and can feel almost traumatizing, even

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if it's not. You know, a moment like I had

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where I was like in a bathroom crying, looking at

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myself in a mirror and being like, I hate her,

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and I worst of all, I don't even recognize the

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person that I'm staring at, and she seems hollow and empty,

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And is this is this shell who people have been

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interacting with? Is this shell the person that dictated my life?

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Like I had that big moment, And as you said,

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I don't think you have to have this big moment,

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But I do think that the moment you recognize your

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loss is not an easy one. I think a lot

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of us live with it more passively, like a hum or,

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like a low grade headache that's just kind of there

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the whole time. I think that moment of realization can

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be quite a difficult one to accept and I think

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it's why my subtitles like accept Hard Truths is the

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first thing.

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I think. It's a really difficult thing to go.

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Oh, I contributed to being in this moment and being

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this unhappy or being this disconnected from myself.

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Yeah, it is hard. I mean, especially when you've constructed

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this whole life and relationship and you know, job, and

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then you're questioning everything. And I think many people probably

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and I'm sure you've had this experience too, like wait,

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you will know that. You know, many people would spend

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years like struggling to actually acknowledge the truth of that,

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because that uncovers like layers of hard things to deal with.

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Yeah, I think a part of it, you know, I

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talk about the deconstruction and reconstruction. That's kind of how

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I think about the self or this journey and like

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unraveling and becoming. And I think that unraveling that deconstruction

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is so scary because a lot of us feel if

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you don't possess yourself, if you don't have yourself, It's like,

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what is the foundation that's going to keep me safe?

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It's like, you know, it's like, Okay, I'm going on

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this boat trip and I don't have.

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A life jacket or I don't have a boat.

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So it's like, if I think I'm going diving, I

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don't know how what's going to keep me from drowning?

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You know.

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And it's an interesting kind of concept of you have

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realized that you don't have a foundation of self, but

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you're asked to lean into that loss and really even

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to construct it more and realize just how lost you

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are before you can construct. And I understand why, you know,

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the book would be a difficult read for some people

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because I'm saying like, oh, you don't know who you are. Okay,

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now let's figure out all the ways you're not yourself

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before the book goes Okay, now let's construct yourself. But

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it is it's really really difficult work.

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No, I think that the way you've led that out

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in the book is really good. And you know, my

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podcast is called crap It a Heavy because that's what

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we're about. Well, like, let's just have a look, let's

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be real about all the uncomfortable stuff first, and then

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we can get onto like, well then what can we

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do about that? But it has to start with acknowledging

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some of those hard truths.

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Yeah, otherwise you don't know where to go.

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No. You talk about authenticity and being authentic, and that's

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an interesting concept too, but you do make the distinction

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between what is being an authentic and what is like

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a genuine loss of self. Can you share a bit

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about that?

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So I use kind of a metaphor for that of

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let's say that I really like water metaphors apparently, but

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let's say that you are diving and you are underwater

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and you're like, Okay, I'm swimming a bit deep, and

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that's like saying no when you want to say yes,

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or saying yes when you want to say no. But

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the thing is, you know where the surface is. You're like,

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when I can't breathe anymore, I will go to the surface.

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And take a deep breath, and I know that I

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will survive.

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And it's kind of like a cheeky way to do

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what doesn't feel authentic, but at the same time, it

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doesn't feel threatening right now. If you do that for

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long enough, you might get disoriented. But what I talk

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about self loss is more like being in a riptide

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or being caught underwater where it's so life threatening and

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you're kind of being tumbled and you know that you

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need to start swimming to survive, but you don't actually

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know where the surface is, and so you're like, I'm

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going to pick a direction and hopefully it's the right direction,

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or else I'm actually swimming closer to my death. And

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I do think that that's a bit of self loss,

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of like, if you don't pick the right way to

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live your life, you're inching closer to an existential death,

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to a further loss that makes it a lot more

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difficult to become who you want to be. And so

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that's the distinction, is like the amount of disorientation, the

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amount of disconnect, and the chronic nature of how you

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live your life.

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Yeah, important to make that distinction. And you also talk

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about the idea that for some people they maybe and

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I know you took about your own personal experience. You

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share really openly some of the experiences in your own life,

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but sometimes it might be a trauma, some big event

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that causes us to kind of disconnect from our sense

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of self and then for other people it was never

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there to begin with. I would love for you to share,

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like some of the kind of circumstances that can lead

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to this loss of self or never having the opportunity

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to really cultivate a genuine sense of self in the

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first place.

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Yeah, so I think, you know, a trauma is, you know,

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a good place to start, although I don't want people

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to feel like they have to have something traumatic happen in.

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Order to occur.

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But I think trauma is so disorienting and often our

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priority shift to self preservation. That's something I talk about

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my own experience. And the last thing you're doing is

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like nurturing self awareness and self expression and self you know,

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because you're just trying to make it and I so

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get it. But what that does do is you o

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preate often from a fear based mindset. You're trying to

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make sure that you're okay even when the danger is

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no longer there, and so you're not oftentimes allowing yourself

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to feel all the things or do anything that you

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feel like would compromise your safety, which oftentimes is really

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pay attention to the internal stuff because you're like, I

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don't have time for that. I need to be so

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vigilant about the external and other instances of self loss.

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It's just like transitions. So becoming a mother, I think

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a really big one where your roles have completely shifted.

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Your focus is now on making sure this little human

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is alive, and that should be your focus, because it

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cannot be alive without you. But I think when it

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becomes the sole focus, people can get lost in that transition.

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And then I'll give an example of people who never

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developed their sense of self. Like, let's say you grew

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up in a really structured family system that had a

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lot of traditions and rules and regulation, and you didn't

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have not just the space to explore an experiment, but

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maybe even question if something aligned with you. So maybe

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if you question, you'd be like, actually, all of this

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aligns with me, and then you would feel this ownership

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of these traditions and rules and regulations. But when you

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don't even have the freedom to do that, I think

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sometimes it can get tricky because they don't feel like

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your own You just feel like you're performing or observing

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your life, and so that in some instances not always

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can lead to the sense of like I don't know

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who I am, Especially if you leave that structure and

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then you have no structure all of a sudden, that's

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a really really scary space to be. I've worked with

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clients who you know, had a very structured upbringing and

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then kind of broke out of it, and we're like,

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I have no structure at all now, and I don't

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know how to construct my own structure, and it's very

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it's very difficult work as well.

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Yeah, that is challenging work. I actually had somebody on

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the podcast you had a similar experience to that. She

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grew up in a cult basically, and then at about

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nineteen or twenty, you know, she chose to leave, and

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she really left her entire community, like everything that she

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had to tear down everything and start from ground zero,

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rebuilding who she was and creating some sense of meaning.

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So obviously don't think most people have that kind of experience,

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but there are lots of other loads and loads of

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other examples of ways that we just gradually can lose

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connection with ourself. I was thinking also, you know, about relationships,

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especially when we're very young, and mind you, you don't

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have to be young, but I think, especially when we're

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young and we're really keen to fit in and be

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the person that other people expect us to be, how

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other people's expectations can lead to us just kind of

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denying and fitting in. And you know, even in those

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subtle ways, just gradually disconnecting from who we are and

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what we truly feel and know and want.

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For sure, I like the word gradual, like it's it

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almost feels passively losing yourself, but it's not passive because

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you have made those decisions. But that's kind of what

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it feels like. And I do think it happens in

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relationships all the time. I highlight that in my book.

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I think it's one of the biggest causes of self loss,

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and that's because people lose themselves in relationships. And I

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think it's great to learn how to compromise, but not

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compromise yourself. Compromise on Chinese or break food for dinner,

248
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but don't compromise on core things like values or boundaries.

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I think there is a very important distinction. But I

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think we've also had this like social narrative of like

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compromise is the only way to make your relationship happy.

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And I'm actually a little hesitant to say things like

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that because it's like when you have both people constantly compromising,

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both people are not getting what they want.

255
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Yeah, I'm not really sure how that's the solution.

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I think maybe like compatibility, being more careful with your

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compatibility might be a better solace than constantly compromising with

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both people who feel like they're getting lukewarm meals every meal.

259
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Instead of like something they actually want to eat.

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And at the same time, I think we haven't made

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the distinction between compromising on preferences versus things that construct

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our sense of self. And it's so easy when you're infatuated,

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when you're in love or feel like you're in love,

264
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whatever your age is, to be like, I want to

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be the person I want to be the love of

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their life. I want to be exactly who they need

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me to be. And I think there's something really beautiful

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about it. But I think when we start to tweak

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and edit ourselves, we sometimes.

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Don't know when to stop.

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And then have this persona because let's say that you

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have pretended to like camping when you first met this person.

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Now you're camping every weekend, and you're like, okay, you know,

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and you're not.

275
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Going to the art museums.

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You're not going to the things that feed your soul

277
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and your creativity and the things that you would rather

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be doing. But at some point, I also understand it's

279
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hard to break out of that because what the person

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signed up for was a partner who wanted camping, you know,

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and now when you're like, I actually don't like it

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might be true, but that probably should have been a

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conversation to have at the start, So you know, it is.

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It is difficult, but I think understanding that we will

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feel the most loved when we feel the most seen,

286
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and we will feel the most scene when we show

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ourselves for who we truly are. And so the love

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that we receive when we're not being our true selves

289
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is never that satisfying, never feels that secure, because they're

290
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not actually loving us for who we are, they're loving

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us for what we were projecting.

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I was just thinking while you were talking too, like

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if all you've ever been doing is camping, because that's

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what you pretended to like, because you wanted somebody else

295
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to think that you liked camping, Like, how do you

296
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even get a chance to know what you really like?

297
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You know?

298
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Because then that becomes the problem, Right, You're so busy

299
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being all of these things to other people that when

300
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do you actually have the space? And I hear that

301
00:15:58.360 --> 00:16:00.600
all the time from people that I would with you

302
00:16:00.639 --> 00:16:03.320
know that I don't even know what I would do

303
00:16:03.559 --> 00:16:06.200
with my free time, Like I don't even like that's

304
00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:09.039
hot hot work? Isn't it to stop from scratch?

305
00:16:09.200 --> 00:16:11.440
It's so hard to start from scratch. And I think

306
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part of it is, like I have the Julia Roberts

307
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example in the book of like Runaway Bride, and I

308
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don't know if the listeners why just run Away Bride?

309
00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:25.200
But I'll give a really short recap. It's Maggie, who's

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played by Julia Roberts, is known to leave all the

311
00:16:28.240 --> 00:16:32.240
grooms at the altar, and a journalist decides to investigate

312
00:16:32.279 --> 00:16:33.919
and write a story on it. So he goes to

313
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a small town and interviews all her partners and her

314
00:16:36.759 --> 00:16:39.120
as well, And one of the questions.

315
00:16:38.720 --> 00:16:41.639
He asks is what eggs does Maggie like?

316
00:16:42.120 --> 00:16:45.120
And one guy's like scrambled, the other guys like poached,

317
00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:48.360
the other guys like sunnyside up. And then he's like, Okay,

318
00:16:48.360 --> 00:16:51.519
what eggs do you like? Scrambled, poach, sunny side up? Great,

319
00:16:52.200 --> 00:16:55.159
And he's having this like heated debate with her in

320
00:16:55.240 --> 00:16:58.320
the movie later on, and he goes, you're so lost,

321
00:16:58.799 --> 00:17:01.200
you don't even know what kind of eggs you like,

322
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and she's like, that's called changing my mind, and he goes, no,

323
00:17:07.359 --> 00:17:10.799
that's called not having a mind of your own. And

324
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it's like such a simple but profound scene. And then

325
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you know later on in the movie you see her

326
00:17:17.160 --> 00:17:20.759
going home making a bunch of eggs, laying them out

327
00:17:20.799 --> 00:17:23.759
on the table and trying them. And I think that's

328
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what life is. I think we think we're just gonna

329
00:17:26.720 --> 00:17:28.599
know who we are. We're going to know what our

330
00:17:28.640 --> 00:17:32.200
preferences are. We can sit in a cave and then

331
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be like wow, I have figured it out and then

332
00:17:34.279 --> 00:17:37.359
come out in society. And the thing I tried to

333
00:17:37.519 --> 00:17:40.480
really sort of present in the book is that your

334
00:17:40.559 --> 00:17:43.960
actions are the core part of who you are, and

335
00:17:44.039 --> 00:17:46.720
a lot of figuring out your sense of self and

336
00:17:46.759 --> 00:17:50.000
creating your sense of self is trial and error. So

337
00:17:50.039 --> 00:17:53.200
it's trying those eggs and you're just going to have

338
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to try things to see if they align with you

339
00:17:55.480 --> 00:17:57.119
or not. You're not going to always be able to

340
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know that before you actually do it. And I think

341
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that people uncomfortable, but that's also because we have this

342
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perception that the self is something we find, so it's

343
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already fully developed.

344
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You find it.

345
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It's like going into a closet pulling out a sweater

346
00:18:10.839 --> 00:18:13.480
being like, who found it? Now I get to die

347
00:18:13.480 --> 00:18:16.480
in this outfit? Amazing, And I think something my book

348
00:18:16.519 --> 00:18:20.039
really resists is that concept. And it's more that you

349
00:18:20.160 --> 00:18:23.079
create your sense of self. It is not something you

350
00:18:23.200 --> 00:18:27.599
just discover. It is an active participation with life and

351
00:18:27.640 --> 00:18:31.920
that seeking for authenticity and alignment that creates who you

352
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ultimately become. And so I think it's like try the

353
00:18:35.480 --> 00:18:37.599
eggs is always kind of.

354
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I love that.

355
00:18:38.839 --> 00:18:41.240
Yeah, I loved that example in the book, and I

356
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love that you shared it because it's it is, it's

357
00:18:43.319 --> 00:18:46.400
so simple and it just sums it up perfectly. Sarah.

358
00:18:46.480 --> 00:18:49.119
You also, you know, like you said, the book is

359
00:18:49.119 --> 00:18:53.079
called It's on Me, like it is all about taking responsibility,

360
00:18:53.680 --> 00:18:56.759
and you mentioned that there are three I guess positions

361
00:18:56.759 --> 00:18:58.440
you can take when it comes to this idea of

362
00:18:58.880 --> 00:19:03.000
self loss. You can be the victim or the agent

363
00:19:03.559 --> 00:19:06.279
or a mix of both. Can you talk about that

364
00:19:06.359 --> 00:19:08.839
a little bit for listeners about like this idea of

365
00:19:08.920 --> 00:19:10.039
taking responsibility?

366
00:19:10.039 --> 00:19:12.319
And I'm gonna like admit that I love that you

367
00:19:12.920 --> 00:19:15.440
listed out the three roles. No one's ever, no one

368
00:19:15.440 --> 00:19:17.359
has done that yet on a podcast, and I think

369
00:19:17.400 --> 00:19:19.880
it was one of my favorite things because I think

370
00:19:20.119 --> 00:19:23.039
this really lays it out. So, you know, I talk

371
00:19:23.079 --> 00:19:26.200
about you can be a victim, but ultimately, I don't

372
00:19:26.200 --> 00:19:29.039
think you can just be a victim. I think there's

373
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always a layer of participation that led to self loss

374
00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:36.319
or perpetuated self law. Yeah, and I think that's one

375
00:19:36.319 --> 00:19:38.880
of the hardest parts. I think. I talk about how,

376
00:19:38.960 --> 00:19:42.359
you know, my early childhood experiences, living you know, through

377
00:19:42.400 --> 00:19:45.160
wars was very difficult, and I was a victim in

378
00:19:45.160 --> 00:19:48.279
that situation. But what ended up being almost more painful

379
00:19:48.359 --> 00:19:51.880
war in my early twenties, when I was the participant

380
00:19:52.119 --> 00:19:55.759
in my own sort of oppression or my own sort

381
00:19:55.799 --> 00:19:59.039
of loss. And I think it was the fact that

382
00:19:59.079 --> 00:20:01.279
I was hurting myself that was so hard to come

383
00:20:01.279 --> 00:20:03.920
to terms with, and that my own decisions were leading

384
00:20:03.960 --> 00:20:06.519
to a life I didn't want. And I use an

385
00:20:06.559 --> 00:20:09.559
example of responsibility of being a hot topic, you know,

386
00:20:09.599 --> 00:20:12.359
I talk about Sartra and all these philosophers, and then

387
00:20:12.359 --> 00:20:16.319
I talk about Chad. Chad is an example I use.

388
00:20:16.519 --> 00:20:19.279
He's a guy we all know who you know, in

389
00:20:19.359 --> 00:20:23.119
high school, his parents got divorced or his first love

390
00:20:23.200 --> 00:20:25.880
cheated on him, right, and that sucked for Chad. We're

391
00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:29.319
not that is like, honestly, that can be really traumatizing,

392
00:20:29.359 --> 00:20:31.799
that can be really difficult, That can be very informative.

393
00:20:32.119 --> 00:20:34.359
But now Chad is in his late.

394
00:20:34.200 --> 00:20:39.200
Twenties, mid thirties, and he's mistreating absolutely everyone he's in

395
00:20:39.200 --> 00:20:40.160
a relationship with.

396
00:20:40.519 --> 00:20:41.359
And although we.

397
00:20:41.400 --> 00:20:46.359
Can use his formative experiences as information as being like,

398
00:20:46.440 --> 00:20:50.720
here's an explanation, it's not a justification. And one of

399
00:20:50.720 --> 00:20:53.759
the questions I ask is like, when does Chad start

400
00:20:53.799 --> 00:20:57.240
being responsible for the way he's treating all his partners?

401
00:20:57.519 --> 00:21:00.680
And a lot of people be like, yeah, Chad needs

402
00:21:00.680 --> 00:21:03.920
to get better so that Casey who's dating him, will

403
00:21:03.960 --> 00:21:07.359
have a better partner, and I go, no, the fact

404
00:21:07.440 --> 00:21:11.000
that Casey's dating Chad is actually on her. Chad needs

405
00:21:11.039 --> 00:21:14.440
to figure it out for Chad, Like, I want Chad

406
00:21:14.480 --> 00:21:19.480
to have a fulfilling, meaningful intimate life. I want him

407
00:21:19.480 --> 00:21:22.359
to have. I am sure Chad wants healthy relationships.

408
00:21:23.480 --> 00:21:24.559
But the thing is, it's not.

409
00:21:24.519 --> 00:21:29.240
About placing responsibility as like placing blame. It's placing power

410
00:21:29.279 --> 00:21:31.839
on someone. It's going you're empowered to change your life.

411
00:21:31.880 --> 00:21:34.079
And I want Chad to have the life that he wants,

412
00:21:34.119 --> 00:21:36.640
And so yeah, it's about time the Chad starts taking

413
00:21:36.680 --> 00:21:39.599
responsibility for how he shows up in his life. And

414
00:21:39.640 --> 00:21:43.200
I think that that's an interesting sort of example in

415
00:21:43.279 --> 00:21:46.319
terms of when do you start taking responsibility and how

416
00:21:46.400 --> 00:21:50.400
much can you allow your past to dictate your current decisions,

417
00:21:51.400 --> 00:21:53.519
you know, And that depends on the trauma, on the event.

418
00:21:53.599 --> 00:21:55.960
And I understand it's not saying it doesn't matter. Of

419
00:21:56.000 --> 00:21:58.640
course it matters. And it's so unfair to feel like

420
00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:03.079
life has so deeply mistreated you and made such a mess,

421
00:22:03.160 --> 00:22:05.759
but now you have to clean it up. Like I

422
00:22:05.839 --> 00:22:09.960
understand how freaking unfair that is. At the same time,

423
00:22:10.160 --> 00:22:13.039
you can go, this is what happened. And the real

424
00:22:13.119 --> 00:22:16.200
big existential question that I like to offer at people

425
00:22:16.240 --> 00:22:20.119
don't like to hear, is now what And that's totally

426
00:22:20.240 --> 00:22:20.599
up to you.

427
00:22:21.400 --> 00:22:23.160
That's the title. It's on you.

428
00:22:23.480 --> 00:22:27.119
It is. It is so empowering, and it's uncomfortable for

429
00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:30.680
people who kind of have constructed a whole kind of

430
00:22:30.799 --> 00:22:34.400
narrative around that or what happened to me and why

431
00:22:34.480 --> 00:22:37.000
these things keep happening to me? You know, like that

432
00:22:37.079 --> 00:22:42.799
can feel safe. It's not fun to own up to

433
00:22:42.880 --> 00:22:46.759
our responsibility, but ultimately so empowering.

434
00:22:46.359 --> 00:22:48.440
So empowering, and I think when you think about the

435
00:22:48.440 --> 00:22:50.799
fact that you are today and if you don't like

436
00:22:50.839 --> 00:22:52.880
who you are today or how your life is, you

437
00:22:52.960 --> 00:22:56.799
are in this pace right now because of the decisions

438
00:22:57.200 --> 00:23:00.799
you've made. That means you have the seen power to

439
00:23:00.839 --> 00:23:03.400
be somewhere else in a month from now, a year

440
00:23:03.759 --> 00:23:05.799
from now, ten years from it. You're using the same

441
00:23:05.880 --> 00:23:08.400
skill set, You're just maybe going to be a little

442
00:23:08.400 --> 00:23:11.960
more intentional about how you're using it. But it just

443
00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:14.599
shows how much wonderful power you have. And I think

444
00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:17.400
that there's something really really liberating about it.

445
00:23:17.599 --> 00:23:20.480
So when it comes to you know, when we've reached

446
00:23:20.480 --> 00:23:23.000
this point where we recognize that there has been some

447
00:23:23.000 --> 00:23:25.839
self loss and we recognize that it's on us to

448
00:23:26.359 --> 00:23:29.839
you know, recreate or rediscover I know we don't discover

449
00:23:30.039 --> 00:23:34.680
recreate our sense of self. Then there are layers, right,

450
00:23:34.759 --> 00:23:37.720
So how do we I know this is a huge question,

451
00:23:37.799 --> 00:23:40.480
but how do we begin? Where do we begin with

452
00:23:40.599 --> 00:23:45.400
starting to create a sense of self and express our

453
00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:47.960
sense of self? I guess in a world where this

454
00:23:48.039 --> 00:23:50.200
is becoming a multilayered question now, like in a world

455
00:23:50.240 --> 00:23:55.319
where often we are rewarded for denying ourselves, you know,

456
00:23:55.400 --> 00:23:57.319
we're going to push back from other people.

457
00:23:57.599 --> 00:23:59.039
Yes, of course we do.

458
00:23:59.359 --> 00:24:03.359
No, this is that's a great question, and I think, oh,

459
00:24:03.599 --> 00:24:04.480
so many answers.

460
00:24:06.079 --> 00:24:06.880
That's our big question.

461
00:24:07.079 --> 00:24:07.960
Yeah, No, that's good.

462
00:24:08.200 --> 00:24:12.640
I think we need until we reprioritize what's more important

463
00:24:12.680 --> 00:24:16.200
to us belonging to others or belonging to self. Oh,

464
00:24:16.240 --> 00:24:20.480
we're really going to struggle. And I think belonging is

465
00:24:20.519 --> 00:24:24.160
a human need. I'm not saying don't kill the need

466
00:24:24.200 --> 00:24:28.880
to belong that's irrational and not helpful. Because we're social beings,

467
00:24:29.519 --> 00:24:32.480
there has to be at least an equal desire to

468
00:24:32.519 --> 00:24:34.440
belong to yourself as much as you want to belong

469
00:24:34.519 --> 00:24:38.119
to and with others. And I think that's kind of

470
00:24:38.119 --> 00:24:42.079
the starting point. The question I really like to get

471
00:24:42.160 --> 00:24:47.160
people to journal if they're just starting, is what did

472
00:24:47.160 --> 00:24:48.720
I learn about myself today?

473
00:24:49.480 --> 00:24:50.319
Oh?

474
00:24:50.400 --> 00:24:53.440
Like, okay, you went through that all day? Cool? Cool?

475
00:24:53.480 --> 00:24:56.839
Cool. What that does is like you need to start

476
00:24:56.839 --> 00:24:58.680
paying attention to what you're doing, because a lot of

477
00:24:58.720 --> 00:25:00.880
people like I don't know nothing because they just didn't

478
00:25:00.920 --> 00:25:04.039
pay attention. But it's like, what beliefs got reinforce? What

479
00:25:04.079 --> 00:25:06.119
things did I kind of know about myself and today

480
00:25:06.319 --> 00:25:08.720
really prove that that was true? This is good or

481
00:25:08.799 --> 00:25:11.039
bad things whatever, like or we don't want to use

482
00:25:11.079 --> 00:25:14.720
those words, but like shortcomings or strengths if we want

483
00:25:14.759 --> 00:25:17.799
to use them, but it's just like what did you

484
00:25:17.880 --> 00:25:20.480
learn about yourself? And the other tip that I give

485
00:25:20.559 --> 00:25:22.839
is like, imagine going on a first date. What you're

486
00:25:22.839 --> 00:25:26.279
doing is you're watching a person like hawk, You're like,

487
00:25:27.079 --> 00:25:30.960
are there feed pointing at me or not? Do they

488
00:25:31.319 --> 00:25:33.960
smell good? Are they chewing with their mouth clothes? Are

489
00:25:33.960 --> 00:25:35.039
we making contact?

490
00:25:35.119 --> 00:25:35.400
Okay?

491
00:25:35.400 --> 00:25:37.240
They're making jokes? Or they asking questions?

492
00:25:37.240 --> 00:25:37.319
Like?

493
00:25:37.880 --> 00:25:40.319
And then we go home and then we like sit

494
00:25:40.440 --> 00:25:42.799
and then we talk to our friends and we recall

495
00:25:42.880 --> 00:25:45.119
every detail and what do you think that meant? And

496
00:25:45.640 --> 00:25:51.000
the amount of freaking energy that you poor into a

497
00:25:51.039 --> 00:25:54.759
first interaction or a first date is a lot. Imagine

498
00:25:55.519 --> 00:25:59.920
spending a smidgeon that on yourself. Like imagine if you're like,

499
00:26:00.160 --> 00:26:03.000
what is my body language doing? You're not asking what

500
00:26:03.200 --> 00:26:05.799
their feet are doing? You're like, how's my body language?

501
00:26:05.799 --> 00:26:08.920
What is my body? What is the sensation? Why do

502
00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:12.599
I tend to get headaches when you know I hang

503
00:26:12.680 --> 00:26:15.559
out with this person or this project comes up or whatever,

504
00:26:15.640 --> 00:26:17.319
And then it's like, what am I feeling?

505
00:26:17.559 --> 00:26:17.920
Okay?

506
00:26:17.960 --> 00:26:22.440
Am I feeling upset or happy? So many people don't

507
00:26:22.480 --> 00:26:25.400
actually know what they're actively feeling. If I said, you

508
00:26:25.440 --> 00:26:29.599
have five seconds of the clock, tell me, I'll go easy,

509
00:26:29.720 --> 00:26:32.319
one emotion you're feeling, and sometimes I'll go tell me

510
00:26:32.359 --> 00:26:35.640
three emotions you're feeling. Most people can't actually do that,

511
00:26:36.079 --> 00:26:39.480
and you're feeling things all the time. And then also

512
00:26:39.599 --> 00:26:42.200
your mind, it's like, what thoughts are you having, what

513
00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:45.720
beliefs are resurfacing, what habits are you noticing? There is

514
00:26:45.799 --> 00:26:49.400
so much to get to know, and so the reason

515
00:26:49.440 --> 00:26:51.440
I'm laying it out like this, and in my book,

516
00:26:51.480 --> 00:26:53.920
I have the mind, the emotions, and the body.

517
00:26:54.559 --> 00:26:56.759
It's like, what is your weakest link? Maybe that's a

518
00:26:56.759 --> 00:26:57.720
great place to start.

519
00:26:57.759 --> 00:27:01.880
It's like, I honestly was so disconnected from my body

520
00:27:01.920 --> 00:27:04.880
and emotions it was difficult to see what was the

521
00:27:04.920 --> 00:27:08.400
weakest link. But it's like, okay, where do you really

522
00:27:08.400 --> 00:27:13.039
feel disconnected? Maybe start there first, start paying attention to

523
00:27:13.079 --> 00:27:15.559
that part of yourself, and then kind of keep building

524
00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:17.920
on because I understand how overwhelming it would be to

525
00:27:17.960 --> 00:27:20.119
go like, okay, now pay attention to your mind and

526
00:27:20.200 --> 00:27:23.640
emotions and body immediately all at once. And I understand

527
00:27:23.640 --> 00:27:25.119
that that's not always sustainable.

528
00:27:25.599 --> 00:27:29.880
Yeah, but they are the mind, the body, and the emotions,

529
00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:32.599
three really key areas. I remember I was reading the

530
00:27:32.599 --> 00:27:34.880
part of your book about the role of our body

531
00:27:35.079 --> 00:27:37.599
in our sense of self and how especially I think

532
00:27:37.599 --> 00:27:39.960
for women, and we objectify our own bodies and we

533
00:27:40.759 --> 00:27:43.000
don't like how they look or we feel let down

534
00:27:43.039 --> 00:27:46.000
by them, and how important it is. And I was

535
00:27:46.160 --> 00:27:49.839
remembering that a long time ago, having a conversation with

536
00:27:49.880 --> 00:27:52.480
somebody who said to me, it was just in a

537
00:27:52.480 --> 00:27:54.680
conversation and she said something like, oh, yeah, I really

538
00:27:54.720 --> 00:27:57.200
need to get to yoga or some dance things she did,

539
00:27:57.279 --> 00:27:59.079
was something like that, and she said, it just really

540
00:27:59.119 --> 00:28:02.480
makes me feel in my body. It just really grounds

541
00:28:02.480 --> 00:28:04.559
me in my body. And I remember thinking, what the

542
00:28:04.720 --> 00:28:08.640
fuck are you talking about? Like, I had no idea.

543
00:28:08.759 --> 00:28:09.960
I was like, what in your body?

544
00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:10.079
What?

545
00:28:10.359 --> 00:28:10.440
Like?

546
00:28:11.160 --> 00:28:14.559
Well, I had no concept of what that meant. And

547
00:28:14.599 --> 00:28:16.440
it was a it was a it was a moment

548
00:28:16.519 --> 00:28:20.119
for me because I thought, Wow, like, I that's interesting.

549
00:28:20.519 --> 00:28:22.839
I've got no idea what she's talking about. And I

550
00:28:22.880 --> 00:28:24.799
started to kind of pay attention to what does that mean?

551
00:28:24.839 --> 00:28:26.599
And it probably took me years and years to actually

552
00:28:26.640 --> 00:28:29.880
really feel what it means to be in my body.

553
00:28:29.960 --> 00:28:32.559
But it's little moments like that that cause you to

554
00:28:32.640 --> 00:28:36.519
pay attention to turn inward, I guess and start noticing, well,

555
00:28:36.519 --> 00:28:40.359
what how am I? How am I feeling? And what

556
00:28:40.359 --> 00:28:42.680
what is this emotion? And I say the same to

557
00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:44.319
my clients, like what are you feeling? And I get

558
00:28:44.359 --> 00:28:47.319
a whole lot of thoughts, Well, I'm thinking that that's

559
00:28:47.319 --> 00:28:51.079
really unfair, or you know, I thought I'm good.

560
00:28:51.240 --> 00:28:57.599
I'm like not a I'm glad, but not a feeling exactly.

561
00:28:58.599 --> 00:29:01.240
And Sarah, you mentioned also about habits, like the role

562
00:29:01.319 --> 00:29:04.039
of habits in self loss, like just the things that

563
00:29:04.079 --> 00:29:07.839
we do habitually. And I don't mean like you make

564
00:29:07.880 --> 00:29:11.160
the distinction between we can all say, oh, I drink

565
00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:13.000
too much or I should cut down on coffee, and

566
00:29:14.480 --> 00:29:18.240
because I don't like that about myself, but really the

567
00:29:18.319 --> 00:29:21.119
habits that we ought to be paying attention to are

568
00:29:21.200 --> 00:29:24.720
things like you mentioned earlier, like maybe do I often

569
00:29:24.720 --> 00:29:27.119
say yes when I mean no? Can we just talk

570
00:29:27.160 --> 00:29:29.920
a bit about like habits and paying attention to habits?

571
00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:33.599
Yeah, So I talk about how habits are a little

572
00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:37.279
like putting all the wrong ingredients in a cake and

573
00:29:37.319 --> 00:29:41.039
then expecting to like what the cake tastes like. And

574
00:29:41.079 --> 00:29:45.079
it's like doing things on autopilot or doing things that

575
00:29:45.119 --> 00:29:47.519
don't align with you and then still expecting to know

576
00:29:47.759 --> 00:29:51.000
or like yourself. That's what habits are, because habits really

577
00:29:51.039 --> 00:29:54.000
construct who you become. Habits are the things you do

578
00:29:54.119 --> 00:29:57.359
every single day. Habits are actually a really serious component

579
00:29:57.440 --> 00:29:58.240
of identity.

580
00:29:58.880 --> 00:30:01.200
And so I think, yeah.

581
00:30:01.000 --> 00:30:04.000
We think about drinking, we think about all these big behaviors,

582
00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:06.400
but it's like, even, Okay, I'm going to get out

583
00:30:06.400 --> 00:30:10.079
of the habit of calling a friend right when I'm

584
00:30:10.200 --> 00:30:11.240
upset without even.

585
00:30:11.160 --> 00:30:12.400
Attempting to self soothe.

586
00:30:13.000 --> 00:30:15.839
Do I think community is important? Absolutely? Do I think

587
00:30:15.839 --> 00:30:18.440
you should call your friend instead of being alone. Yeah,

588
00:30:18.519 --> 00:30:21.599
I'm not suggesting don't. But if you've never learned to

589
00:30:21.680 --> 00:30:23.720
self soothe, then that's the skill you want to have,

590
00:30:23.880 --> 00:30:26.000
and that's how you want to identify as someone who

591
00:30:26.079 --> 00:30:27.960
has the ability to take care of themselves.

592
00:30:28.200 --> 00:30:30.559
That way, I think.

593
00:30:30.400 --> 00:30:33.200
It's really important to cut that habit, maybe process it

594
00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:35.640
for ten to fifteen minutes, and then call your friend

595
00:30:36.680 --> 00:30:40.279
and have a position with which you're sharing the narrative.

596
00:30:40.279 --> 00:30:42.480
I think a lot of us are also impressionable when

597
00:30:42.519 --> 00:30:46.319
we go into conversations without having any opinion, any position,

598
00:30:46.720 --> 00:30:48.680
and then we're trying to come up with that position

599
00:30:48.759 --> 00:30:51.000
with someone else, and that's sometimes the only way we

600
00:30:51.039 --> 00:30:53.440
can do it. But what I think is really important

601
00:30:53.480 --> 00:30:55.400
is to figure out what your position is and then

602
00:30:55.440 --> 00:30:58.920
be open to a tweaking, adjusting whatever, depending on people's inputs,

603
00:30:59.319 --> 00:31:05.039
but not fully constructing your entire viewpoint on any certain situation,

604
00:31:05.319 --> 00:31:07.519
just based on who you get to talk to that day.

605
00:31:07.599 --> 00:31:09.559
And I know many of us who are like, I

606
00:31:09.599 --> 00:31:11.519
want support, so I'm gonna call X, Y and ZZ

607
00:31:11.599 --> 00:31:14.519
because they're always the yes people, and I want pushbacks

608
00:31:14.519 --> 00:31:15.119
I'm gonna call.

609
00:31:15.359 --> 00:31:18.000
We all have those people. We know the people who we.

610
00:31:17.960 --> 00:31:19.599
Call and we want them to be like, yeah, your

611
00:31:19.640 --> 00:31:22.160
husband's the worst, or like people that are like now

612
00:31:22.279 --> 00:31:26.000
now you probably you know. And so I think, because

613
00:31:26.039 --> 00:31:29.240
that exists, is so important to take a beat. So

614
00:31:29.279 --> 00:31:31.160
that's like one of the habits that I talk about

615
00:31:31.240 --> 00:31:33.839
of potentially breaking yeah.

616
00:31:33.880 --> 00:31:36.160
And I think that you know even that knowing that

617
00:31:36.200 --> 00:31:37.759
the first thing I do is call somebody before I've

618
00:31:37.759 --> 00:31:41.480
processed my emotion or got my own perspective on this

619
00:31:41.720 --> 00:31:44.680
is you have to be paying attention to even realize

620
00:31:44.680 --> 00:31:48.240
that that's what I do. So cultivating that self awareness

621
00:31:48.279 --> 00:31:50.759
and really like checking in and tuning in with yourself

622
00:31:50.920 --> 00:31:53.279
so so improbation.

623
00:31:53.519 --> 00:31:57.119
I think if we all it's like, if you are

624
00:31:57.200 --> 00:32:00.480
starting this journey and everything we're saying is a littleetch

625
00:32:00.759 --> 00:32:05.720
or like you're feeling really overwhelmed, just start with observation.

626
00:32:05.960 --> 00:32:09.759
Observe yourself for the day. Try to observe different areas,

627
00:32:09.960 --> 00:32:14.119
be that mental, physical, or emotional. Try to journal that

628
00:32:14.200 --> 00:32:16.160
one question of what did I learn, because that's really

629
00:32:16.160 --> 00:32:20.200
an observation question, and that's also an acceptance of truth question.

630
00:32:20.720 --> 00:32:23.200
So I think it's the next two and one.

631
00:32:23.559 --> 00:32:25.720
Sarah. I'm aware that you have a very busy schedule

632
00:32:25.759 --> 00:32:28.039
and you have to go, and I could talk to

633
00:32:28.039 --> 00:32:31.720
you for an hour, but what I will say to

634
00:32:31.799 --> 00:32:34.759
people listening is there are many, many, many more of

635
00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:38.920
those kind of self reflective journaling type of questions throughout

636
00:32:38.960 --> 00:32:41.039
the book. It is so helpful. It is laid out

637
00:32:41.519 --> 00:32:44.799
like so step by step, you've done a really beautiful job.

638
00:32:44.880 --> 00:32:47.079
I've already told you I've like powered through it, and

639
00:32:47.119 --> 00:32:48.559
I'm going to go back to the beginning and read

640
00:32:48.559 --> 00:32:51.279
it through again. I've learned so much from the book

641
00:32:51.359 --> 00:32:53.000
and I know that, I know that listeners are going

642
00:32:53.039 --> 00:32:55.839
to love it. I really appreciate you making the time today, Sarah.

643
00:32:55.839 --> 00:32:57.680
It's been such a pleasure. I wish we had more time.

644
00:32:57.720 --> 00:32:59.680
I wish we had more time too, but maybe we

645
00:32:59.720 --> 00:33:00.359
will again.

646
00:33:00.640 --> 00:33:01.000
Why not?

647
00:33:01.519 --> 00:33:04.240
Yeah, Yeah, let's do that. Let's do that too, Let's

648
00:33:04.240 --> 00:33:06.000
do let's do.

649
00:33:06.119 --> 00:33:08.880
Part so happy to do a part two.

650
00:33:10.240 --> 00:33:13.079
You heard her with your own ears, folks. She said

651
00:33:13.119 --> 00:33:15.039
she's coming back, and you can be sure I will

652
00:33:15.079 --> 00:33:18.640
be holding her to that in the meantime. Sarah's book

653
00:33:18.720 --> 00:33:22.400
It's on Me is available now in all bookstores obviously,

654
00:33:22.400 --> 00:33:25.079
as I said, the Millennial Therapist on Instagram if you'd

655
00:33:25.079 --> 00:33:28.319
like to go and follow her. Sarah Kubrick dot com

656
00:33:28.440 --> 00:33:31.519
is her website, so if you're interested in finding out

657
00:33:31.519 --> 00:33:34.200
more about Sarah or her works, than absolutely go and

658
00:33:34.279 --> 00:33:37.400
check out her website. If you enjoy this episode, as always,

659
00:33:37.440 --> 00:33:39.799
please do give us a rating and review. Press the

660
00:33:39.839 --> 00:33:41.920
plus button so that you never miss an episode. Or

661
00:33:41.960 --> 00:33:44.039
come and join my mailing list because I will email

662
00:33:44.079 --> 00:33:45.599
you every single week to let you know when there

663
00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:48.319
is a new episode out. Crappy to Happy Pod is

664
00:33:48.359 --> 00:33:51.000
our new Instagram account. Cast Don dot com is where

665
00:33:51.000 --> 00:33:52.920
you will find me. I cannot wait to catch you

666
00:33:52.920 --> 00:33:57.839
next week for another fabulous episode of Crappy to Happy