May 1, 2022

How to Endo with Bridget Hustwaite

How to Endo with Bridget Hustwaite
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How to Endo with Bridget Hustwaite
How to Endo with Bridget Hustwaite
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Season 7 Women's Health And Wellbeing Physical Health

Cass Dunn has a brand new podcast called The Confidence Coach and it's out on May 9th! If you want to learn the best tips and tricks to boost your self-confidence in any area of your life, subscribe now:Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-confidence-coach-with-cass-dunn/id1621232863Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1AhHKsB8yODoDYqgGCSpRD?si=_qNYTDGESteeSd8zMF9yTg&nd=1-------Bridget Hustwaite first started experiencing painful periods when she was just 15, but it took over 12 years for her to finally get diagnosed with endometriosis, a disorder in which tissue similar to that which lines the uterus grows outside the uterus. Despite endo impacting 1 in 9 women and girls, there is still a huge amount of misinformation and misdiagnosis around the condition.In this chat with Cass Dunn, Bridget explains:

  • The most common symptoms for endo
  • Why it took 12 years for her to be diagnosed
  • Why there is still so much misunderstanding around the condition
  • What treatments are available and how they work
  • Why excision surgery is the gold standard
  • Her hopes for women and girls diagnosed in the future

Connect with Bridget:http://www.bridget-hustwaite.com/Buy her book How to Endo here: booktopia.kh4ffx.net/howtoendoFind out more about endo here: https://centerforendo.com/
Connect with Cass:www.crappytohappypod.comhello@crappytohappypod.com 
www.instagram.com/crappytohappypodwww.tiktok.com/crappytohappypod
Join the free 7-day Happiness Challenge:www.cassdunn.com/happiness

Connect with Cass:

www.cassdunn.com
www.instagram.com/cassdunn_xo

Contact Crappy to Happy:

Email: hello@crappytohappypod.com
www.crappytohappypod.com
www.instagram.com/crappytohappypod
www.tiktok.com/@crappytohappypod


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Book a call with me to share your experience.

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Transcript
WEBVTT

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A listener production.

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Before we get into this episode, I want to let

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you know that my brand new podcast, The Confidence Coach

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with Cast Done, is going live on May the ninth,

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and you can subscribe right now. There will be six

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episodes for you to binge, and each episode will cover

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a confidence concern that has been sent to me by

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a real listener, whether to do with career, or body

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image or relationships. And I will talk through the problem

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and share helpful psychological ideas that are relevant to everyone,

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so that you can take away one tip or strategy

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from each episode that you can use in your own life.

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I cannot wait for you to hear it. The link

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to subscribe is in the show notes below. This is

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Crappita Happy and I am your host, Cas Done. I'm

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a clinical and coaching psychologist and mindfulness meditation teacher and of.

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Course, author of the Crappita Happy books.

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In this show, I bring you conversation with interesting, inspiring,

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intelligent people who are experts in their field and who

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have something of value to share that will help you

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feel less crappy and more happy. Bridget Hustwaite first started

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experiencing painful periods when she was just fifteen, but it

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took over twelve years for her to finally be diagnosed

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with endometriosis, a disorder which, contrary to popular belief, does

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not only affect reproductive organs, but every organ in your body.

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Despite ENDO impacting one in nine women and girls, there

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is still a huge amount of misunderstanding and misdiagnosis around

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this painful and debilitating condition. That is what inspired Bridget

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to create her Instagram account at endogram and to write

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the book how To Endo to help other women and

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girls navigate the disorder and the maze of possible treatments.

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In this chat, Bridget explains all the useful science about ENDO,

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and she shares her own long journey through diagnosis, treatment,

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and relatively pain free living. Whether you are like me

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and you've heard of endometriosis but you sort of don't

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really know what it is, or if you are someone

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experiencing this for yourself, I know that you will find

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this conversation enlightening and hopefully empowering. He's much out with

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Bridget Frigid Welcome to the Crappy to Happy Podcast. Such

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a pleasure to have you here.

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Thanks CAAs I'm excited to chat.

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Bridget we're here to talk about endometriosis and particularly your journey.

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I have to admit that this is something that I

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personally don't know a whole lot about, which is why

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I was really keen to talk to you, because I

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think there are a lot of people like me who

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hear the word. It seems to be more in the conversation.

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But we're not really sure what this is. So can

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we please just start with what is endometriosis?

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Yeah? Absolutely, It's honestly the best question to start with,

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because there's so much yeah, misinformation I suppose, or misunderstanding

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rather about this condition. And even when you actually google

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it in Australia, the first definition that comes up is incorrect.

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So I'll give you the right one. Now we'll start to.

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Lease that because I did google, so please do.

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Yeah. Yeah, So, endometriosis is a chronic condition in which

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tissue similar to the lining of the uterus. So the

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lining of the uterus is called the endometrium, but it's

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tissue similar to that, and it grows outside of the uterus.

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It's been found in every major organ of the body,

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so it is more so a whole body disease rather

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than just you know, it's traditionally deemed as a women's

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reproductive health issue, but it's so much more than that,

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and it affects more than women too, I mean like

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non binary transgender people. There's even been rare cases in

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which endometriosis has been found in cisgender men, which is

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quite mind boggling. Yeah, but there's just this kind of

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dated notion that it's just confined to our pelvic cavity.

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But the key thing with endo is that it actually

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occurs outside of the uterus. So the poor uterus cops

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all the blame and all the heat for Endoh, but

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it's actually you know, it can be found pretty much, yeah, everywhere,

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And for me, it was a very widespread diagnosis. I suppose,

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like they found it across my bowl, my rectum, my

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pouch of Douglas. I've had friends who have had endometriosis

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found in their diaphragm.

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Wow.

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Yeah, it's really full on. But there's just so much

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misunderstanding about it, and for some reason a lot of

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people do kind of hold on to the dated, incorrect

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information regarding the reproductive system. But it's so much more

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than that. But yeah, it essentially, you know, causes a

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lot of pain. It can stick organs together, and I

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think it's up to fifty percent of cases it can

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cause infertility. So unfortunately, no known cause or cure. And yeah,

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more questions and answers. I suppose just.

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What you have said just then is so enlightening.

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You said it is a material like the lining of

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of the uterus, but it is not the lining of

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the uterus, because that's what I read. It's like the

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you know, the same I'm getting the word wrong, but whatever,

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it is that lines of uterus starts growing on the

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outside instead of sticking to the inside.

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Yeah, so this is key you Like. The biggest misconception

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about endometriosis, I suppose is that people think it is

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the endometrium. It's so important to know that there is

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a difference. There's another condition called adenomiosis. April is actually adenomiosis.

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Awareness muth and I liken adenomiosis to kind of like

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the evil cousin of endo, and that is actually within

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the walls of the uterus. So it is the endometrium

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for adenomiosis. Just to give you an example, there's a

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cure and that is a hysterectomy. By removing the uterus,

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you're removing adenomiosis. But because endometriosis occurs outside of the

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uterus and it's not the endometrium, a hysterectomy won't cure endo. Unfortunately,

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there's a lot of misinformation and unfortunately not all medical

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professionals are across it. They may sometimes recommend people who

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have endometriosis to get a hysterectomy when that's not proven cure,

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and it's you know, that's a life changing decision, and

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that's why we've got a you know, that's why I

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think I'm so passionate about talking about it and trying

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to put out the right information because yeah, these are

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life changing decisions that can really affect your life, your

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quality of life. But also yeah, if you wanted to

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have kids or whatnot, Like, it's just it's a big

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decision to make, you know, totally.

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So Bridget tell us about your journey. It took you

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a long time to get an accurate diagnosis in.

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That yeah, really long time. So the average diagnosis duration

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in Australia they now say it's six and a half years.

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Mine was twelve years, so mine was double that. It

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was a really long journey. I first saw a doctor

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when I was fifteen about my period. My key symptom

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I suppose was period pain. And in high school I

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just noticed, you know, I was really uncomfortable. It was

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just really intense, the cramping and the headaches, and none

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of my friends were really experiencing it. My sisters weren't

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dealing with it either, and my mum was, yeah, definitely

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showing some concerns. So we went to a doctor when

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I was about in year ten, and it was just

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such a standard consultation. I mean, I didn't know endo

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existed at that time. There was certainly no one to talk. Yeah,

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there was no one talking about it wasn't covered in

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the health curriculum. And yeah, so I just thought I

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had a really bad period, and or potentially that I

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just was you know, not handling it as well as

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others because you kind of made it feel that way.

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There's no real frame of reference, I suppose when it

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comes to this stuff. So I was just recommended to

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go on the pill, no questions asked, you know, thought

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that was the natural thing to do. Unfortunately, the pill

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just you know didn't vibe with my body and it

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didn't do anything to you know, yet the pain or whatnot.

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So that was the first kind of step that I

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took in terms of trying to seek answers and information

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for my pain. As the years went on, I started

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to experience other kind of symptoms that I never thought

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to link together. So when I first started having sex

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when I was eighteen, that was really painful. I started

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having a lot of pain just even passing bowel movements,

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and I would also get really intense, sharp cramping around

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my abdomen, so like higher up. But I just never

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thought to piece it all together, and I probably didn't

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until just a few years ago after my diagnosis, where

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I learned more about endometriosis. So kind of to fast forward,

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I suppose, you know, over the years, I saw numerous doctors,

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and some of them would refer me to a gynecologist.

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But it's also not cheap to see a gynecologist. And

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I've honestly never been financially stable until I started working

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full time at Triple J and earning you know, a

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solid income of sorts. And at that time, when I was,

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you know, getting these referrals from doctors, I was working

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as a travel agent, which essentially pays peanuts. I'm I'm

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sure it's better now but back in my day, I

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don't think so it wasn't the best, yeah, pay And

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then I also had some doctors who just flat out

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dismissed me. A year prior to my first surgery in diagnosis,

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I had a female GP who was actually recommended to

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go see in Ballarat and I went and saw her.

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I was really excited because I thought she's going to know,

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you know, other people have gone and seen her, She's

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been recommended, And it was the most disappointing experience that

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I've had with the medical professional. She just flat out

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said to me, you don't have endomitriosis. Others have it

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worse than you. And it was a really shocking thing

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because she just decided then, and they're based on what

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I was telling her. She pretty much, yeah, decided that

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what I was saying wasn't serious or enough or worth

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investigating or even worth a referral to a gynecologist.

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That's shocking.

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Yeah, it was really really bad. Like I remember going

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back into my car and calling my mom and just

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being like, I don't know what just happened, but I

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just got flat out, you know, shut down. And it

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wasn't until the following year that I moved to Sydney.

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So this is twenty eighteen, and had to move to

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Sydney for work, and I decided that I needed to

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get on top of it because my period pain started

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getting worse every month.

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You know.

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I was in the studios doing my radio show with

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a heat bag, lying around the office, trying to just

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you know, get in a comfortable position before I had

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to go on air and kind of switch on. And yeah,

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that was when I was like, I really need to,

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you know, put some more time into this and kind

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of demand more because I was a bit of a pushover,

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I suppose, but I knew. I just knew something wasn't right.

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And I think that's the key takeaway. I think listening

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to your body and know if you know something's not right,

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you have to keep pushing and know that it's okay

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to get a second opinion because we're so often made

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to feel like we can't. And I think that's a

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really you know, unhealthy power balance and power dynamic between

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a medical professional and a patient, you know, a hundred

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percent a work for us, Like that's kind of what

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it should be. So yeah, finally saw another GP who

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was absolutely amazing and she referred me to a gynecologist

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and we did surgery, except he actually didn't perform the surgery.

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This is kind of like another key point about endemetriosis

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in terms of treating it. It was through the public

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health system, and he had training excision surgeons. So I'll

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talk about what excision is in a moment, because that's

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a very important word with endometriosis. But these you know,

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surgeons were essentially learning how to remove endometriosis in the

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correct way. And I was fine with it because I

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was I didn't know anything about endo. But had I

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known the extent of the disease, you know, maybe in advance,

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which is impossible, but I guess hindsight, I probably wouldn't

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have opted for that because I ended up having I

220
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needed to get a second surgery because they didn't. End

221
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up they didn't remove all the endometriosis, so right, Yeah,

222
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I was diagnosed with what they call stage four, which

223
00:12:08.919 --> 00:12:11.480
is pretty much just widespread, like there was a lot

224
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of it, and the gynecologist said, if we'd left it

225
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any longer, they would have had to remove part of

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my bowl, which is just a pretty I don't know, sober, Yeah,

227
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really shocking things. You hear when you're twenty seven, because

228
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you wouldn't expect that to happen to you at that age.

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But yeah, I was so stoked, Like I was so

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happy to get that diagnosis because it meant validation, confirmation

231
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my pain was real. And yeah, then I just kind

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of had to look forward to navigating life with ENDO.

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But that's a whole different story, coming to realize that

234
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it's a chronic condition, and it's yeah, a marathon, I suppose.

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Wow, the fact that people just have to live with

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those symptoms for so long, even six years being the average,

237
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is way too long for somebody to have to live

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with those symptoms.

239
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I just want to back.

240
00:13:00.080 --> 00:13:03.360
Track a little bit, Bridget, when you said that you

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first approached the GP about painful periods when you're fifteen

242
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and the standard response, which it typically is is to

243
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go on to the pill, is that you said your

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body didn't really jive with the pill. Do some people,

245
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do you know, get relief from going on the pill

246
00:13:20.799 --> 00:13:22.559
or is that just like not a thing that is

247
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going to help if you suffer from endometriosis.

248
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Yeah, it's a really important point to raise because birth

249
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control and some sort of I guess hormonal suppression of source.

250
00:13:32.879 --> 00:13:36.200
It can help in symptom management, but there's a difference

251
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between symptom management and disease management, and unfortunately, some medical

252
00:13:41.879 --> 00:13:44.519
professionals will tell you that things like the pill or

253
00:13:44.519 --> 00:13:48.000
the Marina IUD will you know, stop or prevent growth

254
00:13:48.000 --> 00:13:52.679
of endometriosis, which is factually incorrect. Really yeah, but it

255
00:13:52.799 --> 00:13:56.879
can help with relieving symptoms, and that's fine. It's just

256
00:13:56.919 --> 00:13:58.960
as long as people know that. Like, this is where

257
00:13:59.000 --> 00:14:02.080
I guess informed can scent really comes into play and

258
00:14:02.320 --> 00:14:04.720
knowing its purpose and what it will do in terms

259
00:14:04.799 --> 00:14:08.399
of your chronic condition. It literally won't do anything to

260
00:14:08.559 --> 00:14:13.039
stop the disease growing or preventing it like that be.

261
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Harmful in some ways. If it's suppressing the symptoms but

262
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the disease is still growing, Yeah, it could actually be detrimental.

263
00:14:21.080 --> 00:14:24.320
Yeah, So that's this is actually a really big conversation

264
00:14:24.440 --> 00:14:27.919
that's being had in the endometriosis community right now. The

265
00:14:27.919 --> 00:14:31.320
gold standard of treatment and diagnosis is what we call

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excision surgery. So we can't cure endometriosis. Goodness knows how

267
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long it will be until we get a cure. But

268
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the thing that we can do right now is ensure

269
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that patients get the correct technique in removing the disease.

270
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So excision surgery is when you physically cut out endometriosis

271
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from the root. You think of it like a shovel

272
00:14:50.120 --> 00:14:52.000
and like a weed, right, so you like dig it

273
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out and pull it out in its entirety. That is

274
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the gold standard because that ensures a lower recurrence rate.

275
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If you're pulling it out for the from the root,

276
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highly unlikely it's going to grow back. It's a very delicate,

277
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invasive procedure and we don't have enough excision specialists in Australia.

278
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It's also a bit of a classism issue because it's

279
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only really mostly available via the private health system. Chronic

280
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conditions are really expensive to manage and not everyone can

281
00:15:19.919 --> 00:15:23.639
afford private health. My first procedure was via public I

282
00:15:23.679 --> 00:15:26.279
had to wait five months for the surgery. My second

283
00:15:26.320 --> 00:15:29.720
one was via the private health system. The other technique

284
00:15:29.759 --> 00:15:33.559
is called a blation, and that's burning the disease from

285
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the surface. So I guess when we think about the

286
00:15:36.840 --> 00:15:40.440
weed analogy again, that's just burning the tips, right, but

287
00:15:40.480 --> 00:15:43.600
the root is still there, so it's very likely it's

288
00:15:43.600 --> 00:15:46.879
a higher recurrence rate of that route. You know, growing

289
00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:47.399
up again.

290
00:15:47.679 --> 00:15:50.440
That's like the round up treatment, just spraying the weed.

291
00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:54.360
Yeah yeah, yeah, it's just my surface, Yeah, pretty much.

292
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It's still there though, and it's probably you know, likely

293
00:15:57.279 --> 00:16:00.720
to grow back. So that's what ablation is, kind of

294
00:16:00.720 --> 00:16:03.240
circling back to the whole concept of the pill and

295
00:16:03.279 --> 00:16:07.000
birth control and whatnot. Unfortunately, a lot of patients are

296
00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:11.440
kind of presented with this option where they will be

297
00:16:11.480 --> 00:16:14.799
told to do, you know, take the pill or take zolidex,

298
00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:21.240
or get the IUD inserted or whatnot before even going

299
00:16:21.279 --> 00:16:24.080
down the root of surgery. Surgery is the only way

300
00:16:24.080 --> 00:16:28.480
to get an official diagnosis with excision surgery because they're

301
00:16:28.480 --> 00:16:31.159
physically cutting it out. They can send it off to

302
00:16:31.200 --> 00:16:35.600
get testing like pathological testing and one hundred percent confirmation

303
00:16:35.879 --> 00:16:38.480
that that is endometriosis. You can't even do that with

304
00:16:38.519 --> 00:16:42.159
ablation because it's just burning the surface. But what it

305
00:16:42.159 --> 00:16:46.320
should be is one surgery done right. So you go in,

306
00:16:46.639 --> 00:16:50.120
you have one excision surgery with an excision specialist who

307
00:16:50.559 --> 00:16:55.399
can precisely remove the disease. That's not going to remove

308
00:16:55.440 --> 00:16:57.879
the symptoms straight away because a lot of people have

309
00:16:57.960 --> 00:17:01.080
dealt with their ENDO for years. So that's why things

310
00:17:01.159 --> 00:17:04.200
like a pelvic floor physio is important, or even maybe

311
00:17:04.200 --> 00:17:07.880
looking at diet changes, foods trigger inflammation and whatnot. Some

312
00:17:07.880 --> 00:17:10.640
people like to look to you know, acupuncture and traditional

313
00:17:10.759 --> 00:17:13.880
Chinese medicine, and I mean, if we're talking about a

314
00:17:13.920 --> 00:17:17.759
wide team even psychology of course, or a sexologist to

315
00:17:17.799 --> 00:17:20.480
help with you know, painful sex and stuff. I think

316
00:17:20.519 --> 00:17:24.119
pelvic physio is like so crucial because that can really

317
00:17:24.119 --> 00:17:27.920
help with, you know, improving your kind of connection with

318
00:17:27.960 --> 00:17:30.000
your pelvic floor, because a lot of people with endo

319
00:17:30.920 --> 00:17:33.480
and the pain, they will just lock up and it

320
00:17:33.480 --> 00:17:35.960
gets to the point where you just have no you're

321
00:17:35.960 --> 00:17:38.240
not in sync with your pelvic floor muscles and you

322
00:17:38.279 --> 00:17:41.279
can't relax at all like mine will like gridlocks. So

323
00:17:41.279 --> 00:17:44.079
I had to go see a pelvic physio for about

324
00:17:44.119 --> 00:17:44.960
eighteen months.

325
00:17:45.079 --> 00:17:47.000
I'm fascinated by the fact that you just said you

326
00:17:47.039 --> 00:17:50.480
can only get a diagnosis with surgery, but presumably you

327
00:17:50.519 --> 00:17:52.839
need to have a diagnosis to have the surgery, So

328
00:17:53.000 --> 00:17:55.359
I don't how does that work. When you said that

329
00:17:55.400 --> 00:17:57.480
GP shout you down and dismissed you based on you

330
00:17:57.559 --> 00:18:01.720
describing the symptoms to her, Well, then if that wasn't

331
00:18:01.799 --> 00:18:03.960
enough to get the diagnosis, like how do you get

332
00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:06.359
the diagnosis in order to have the surgery.

333
00:18:06.839 --> 00:18:09.839
Yeah, well, I mean that's the thing, like she essentially

334
00:18:09.839 --> 00:18:12.680
decided that what I was telling her wasn't enough to

335
00:18:12.839 --> 00:18:17.400
warrant a diagnosis or even exploration of that. There are

336
00:18:17.480 --> 00:18:20.359
numerous things that a GP can do, so they could

337
00:18:20.400 --> 00:18:23.039
do if you're comfortable doing it, and this is also

338
00:18:23.079 --> 00:18:25.480
at a gynocologist's office as well. They can do a

339
00:18:25.599 --> 00:18:28.720
manual examination, so they can kind of test, you know,

340
00:18:28.839 --> 00:18:31.039
the pain, if you're responding to if they're like poking

341
00:18:31.119 --> 00:18:33.920
around down there in certain areas. They can also refer

342
00:18:33.960 --> 00:18:36.799
you to get an ultrasound or a DIE scan, which

343
00:18:36.839 --> 00:18:40.559
is a deep infiltrating and demetriosis scan. It's pretty much

344
00:18:40.640 --> 00:18:45.160
just like an extensive transvaginal ultrasound. It goes for I

345
00:18:45.160 --> 00:18:47.440
mean it can go up so like forty five minutes,

346
00:18:47.480 --> 00:18:49.839
like it can be a long time, and you've got

347
00:18:49.880 --> 00:18:52.960
the sonographer and a gynecologist there both kind of just

348
00:18:53.039 --> 00:18:57.079
poking around and looking at the ovaries and looking for

349
00:18:57.119 --> 00:19:00.839
what they call deep infiltrating and demetriosis. So that's kind

350
00:19:00.839 --> 00:19:04.119
of endo that's a bit deeper embedded into organs, right.

351
00:19:04.359 --> 00:19:08.160
The superficial endo as well, which is kind of surface

352
00:19:08.279 --> 00:19:12.759
level and not as deep I guess, but these scans

353
00:19:12.799 --> 00:19:16.640
don't a one hundred percent pick up these endometriosis. My

354
00:19:16.759 --> 00:19:20.759
scans before the surgery didn't pick up deep infiltrating endometriosis.

355
00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:23.200
But I did have it on my bow and my

356
00:19:23.240 --> 00:19:26.079
pouch of Douglas like it was like a war zone,

357
00:19:26.319 --> 00:19:26.519
you know.

358
00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:27.319
Wow.

359
00:19:27.559 --> 00:19:32.000
So those techniques like they're good to do, definitely, but

360
00:19:32.200 --> 00:19:36.079
surgery is really the most definitive way of detecting and

361
00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:38.079
removing endometriosis.

362
00:19:41.880 --> 00:19:45.160
I hope that you're enjoying this conversation and realizing the

363
00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:48.119
benefits of positivity in your own life. If you are

364
00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:50.960
enjoying the show, please be sure to like and subscribe

365
00:19:50.960 --> 00:19:53.319
so that you get notified when you EPs drop and

366
00:19:53.400 --> 00:19:55.839
head on over to Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen

367
00:19:55.880 --> 00:20:05.440
and leave us a rating and review. So, while you

368
00:20:05.519 --> 00:20:09.119
describe Bridget, you know, as a fifteen year old, heavy periods,

369
00:20:09.160 --> 00:20:12.400
painful periods, lots of girls experience that, and I do

370
00:20:12.440 --> 00:20:15.920
think that we kind of just, oh, well, you're just

371
00:20:16.200 --> 00:20:20.039
bad luck. You know, some people handle periods better than others.

372
00:20:20.799 --> 00:20:22.519
What if some of the other sin could you just

373
00:20:22.799 --> 00:20:26.079
kind of give me a tick and flick basically of

374
00:20:26.519 --> 00:20:28.759
this is when you should start having some alarm bells

375
00:20:28.799 --> 00:20:31.480
ringing that this could be ENDO and more than just

376
00:20:31.680 --> 00:20:34.319
kind of standard a heavy period that you might control

377
00:20:34.359 --> 00:20:35.359
with the pill for example.

378
00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:38.440
Yeah, totally. Well, the thing is with painful periods, A

379
00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:41.319
lot of people are told that that is the main

380
00:20:41.440 --> 00:20:45.000
key red flag so to speak, of endometriosis. But some

381
00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:47.319
people with ENDO don't even have bad periods. I've got

382
00:20:47.319 --> 00:20:50.200
a really good friend, Georgia who has the cruisy periods

383
00:20:50.240 --> 00:20:53.880
like she's sweet, but it's the other pain like endo belly.

384
00:20:53.960 --> 00:20:58.319
So that's extreme bloating, an inflammation of the stomach, pain

385
00:20:58.440 --> 00:21:02.000
during sex, pain when empty the bladder or passing bowel movements.

386
00:21:02.039 --> 00:21:06.440
Some people get pain in the lower back and upper leg, fatigue,

387
00:21:06.759 --> 00:21:11.440
brain fog, and I guess just you know, some triggers

388
00:21:11.480 --> 00:21:14.640
to particular foods as well. So those are the kind

389
00:21:14.680 --> 00:21:17.799
of key symptoms and it is important to be across

390
00:21:17.839 --> 00:21:21.559
all of them, because yeah, endometriosis isn't just a bad period,

391
00:21:21.640 --> 00:21:25.039
as it is commonly kind of coined, as it's so

392
00:21:25.279 --> 00:21:26.079
much more than that.

393
00:21:26.519 --> 00:21:30.640
So Britin, now that you have had the correct diagnosis, Finally,

394
00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:33.680
now that you have had not one, but two surgeries,

395
00:21:34.160 --> 00:21:36.559
can you tell me how does this affect.

396
00:21:36.240 --> 00:21:39.160
You now day to day? Like, what are your residual

397
00:21:39.200 --> 00:21:40.240
symptoms if any?

398
00:21:40.880 --> 00:21:43.880
Yeah, So, I mean in terms of the pain and

399
00:21:43.920 --> 00:21:46.519
the symptoms, I'm pretty lucky in comparison to other people

400
00:21:46.599 --> 00:21:49.160
where it's still just my period pain. That's the worst

401
00:21:49.160 --> 00:21:52.680
part of it. So that's you know, one, two, maybe

402
00:21:52.720 --> 00:21:55.799
three days a month where I'm just a bit, you know,

403
00:21:56.559 --> 00:21:59.680
not not vibing with life and just have to slow

404
00:21:59.720 --> 00:22:02.200
down or take time off work. And it's something that

405
00:22:02.240 --> 00:22:05.319
I've kind of learned to manage because my luckily, my

406
00:22:05.359 --> 00:22:08.359
period's really regular, so I can anticipate when it's going

407
00:22:08.440 --> 00:22:12.240
to happen and I can plan around it, just not

408
00:22:12.319 --> 00:22:15.000
do anything on those couple of days and just rest

409
00:22:15.039 --> 00:22:18.519
and whatnot for me. Interestingly enough, I guess my focus

410
00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:21.799
now in terms of my endemitriosis and navigating it is

411
00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:25.400
I've just turned thirty one and I'm single, and I

412
00:22:25.400 --> 00:22:28.559
guess the issue of fertility kind of comes into question.

413
00:22:28.599 --> 00:22:31.799
I just recently went and did the AMH test to

414
00:22:31.839 --> 00:22:34.880
determine my egg quality or how many I could freeze

415
00:22:34.920 --> 00:22:37.640
if I was to do egg freezing. Yeah, kind of

416
00:22:37.640 --> 00:22:41.079
planning ahead, I suppose, because yeah, you just don't know

417
00:22:41.119 --> 00:22:43.599
what's going to happen. I guess in terms of relationships,

418
00:22:43.680 --> 00:22:45.759
and I definitely want to have kids one day, but

419
00:22:46.079 --> 00:22:49.240
it's not something that I think will happen in the

420
00:22:49.319 --> 00:22:53.920
immediate future. So it's just planning ahead because fertility starts to,

421
00:22:54.079 --> 00:22:58.240
you know, decline when you're thirty five. And I can

422
00:22:58.279 --> 00:23:00.240
tell you during lockdown last year, I was like, come

423
00:23:00.279 --> 00:23:04.079
moment to find someone. If I'm in four lockdowns in Melbourne, jeez.

424
00:23:04.880 --> 00:23:07.279
I feel sorry for anybody who is single during lockdown.

425
00:23:08.440 --> 00:23:11.559
So that is another really important reason why early diagnosis

426
00:23:11.599 --> 00:23:14.519
is key, right, so you can plan ahead for these things.

427
00:23:14.759 --> 00:23:20.119
Yeah, absolutely, And it's hard because it's something that you just, yeah,

428
00:23:20.160 --> 00:23:21.839
you don't know what's going to happen with your life.

429
00:23:21.880 --> 00:23:24.519
But it's just good to know what your options are.

430
00:23:24.960 --> 00:23:28.839
And for me, getting that information was really handy. I'm

431
00:23:29.039 --> 00:23:31.920
not gonna, yeah, probably not gonna freeze them this year,

432
00:23:31.960 --> 00:23:34.799
maybe next year, but it's kind of that age between

433
00:23:34.799 --> 00:23:38.160
thirty and thirty five if you are looking at doing it,

434
00:23:38.200 --> 00:23:40.160
that's when you want to get the best quality eggs,

435
00:23:40.200 --> 00:23:43.759
because yeah, thirty five onwards. That's when the quality and

436
00:23:43.799 --> 00:23:48.200
the quantity really start to decline. But that is absolutely

437
00:23:48.240 --> 00:23:51.440
why early diagnosis is so key, so you have the

438
00:23:51.480 --> 00:23:55.920
window to make choices and explore options and not feel like,

439
00:23:56.519 --> 00:23:59.519
you know, it's too late and you can't do anything.

440
00:23:59.640 --> 00:24:02.279
It's I would be devastated, you know, for it was

441
00:24:02.440 --> 00:24:04.519
a few more years and I didn't know any of this,

442
00:24:05.119 --> 00:24:07.279
and so many people don't know this, Like again, like

443
00:24:07.319 --> 00:24:09.119
that's why we have to talk about it and really

444
00:24:09.119 --> 00:24:11.200
put it out there, because some people don't even know

445
00:24:11.599 --> 00:24:14.240
any any of this information. I didn't know anything about

446
00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:17.519
ENDO leading up to my diagnosis because I just trusted

447
00:24:17.519 --> 00:24:20.240
what I was told. But it wasn't until I made

448
00:24:20.279 --> 00:24:23.880
my endogram account on Instagram and connected with other people

449
00:24:23.920 --> 00:24:26.960
and also connected with other specialists from around the world

450
00:24:27.079 --> 00:24:31.920
and access you know, studies and clinical information and yeah,

451
00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:35.680
evidence based information about ENDO that I was like, oh

452
00:24:35.720 --> 00:24:38.359
my goodness, I need to kind of really get this

453
00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:40.359
out there. And I guess that's what led to the

454
00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:43.759
formation of how to ENDO my book. So you know,

455
00:24:44.039 --> 00:24:46.799
thankfully that's on bookshelves and people can read it and

456
00:24:46.880 --> 00:24:48.920
their minds are just blown because they're like I thought,

457
00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:51.799
I knew endo, but I really didn't. And that's the

458
00:24:51.880 --> 00:24:53.799
sad reality, you know, we have to do so much

459
00:24:53.839 --> 00:24:55.000
of the work ourselves.

460
00:24:55.599 --> 00:24:59.279
Yeah, and yes, so grateful for people like you who

461
00:24:59.359 --> 00:25:02.640
take your experienceence and gather all of this information and

462
00:25:02.680 --> 00:25:07.319
put it out there for other people's benefit. A true

463
00:25:07.319 --> 00:25:09.519
definition of having a purpose in life there, you know,

464
00:25:09.680 --> 00:25:12.359
using your suffering for the greater good. Love your work,

465
00:25:12.400 --> 00:25:15.920
Bridget I want to ask to you said right at

466
00:25:15.960 --> 00:25:18.160
the beginning that it can affect your fertility and up

467
00:25:18.160 --> 00:25:20.759
to fifty percent of sufferers. I just want to clarify. So,

468
00:25:20.920 --> 00:25:23.519
even if you've had a diagnosis and you've had the surgery,

469
00:25:23.640 --> 00:25:28.440
the excision surgery, and it's out, is there still a

470
00:25:28.559 --> 00:25:33.920
risk to fertility because of your earlier experience of what

471
00:25:34.119 --> 00:25:36.119
it was doing while it was in your body?

472
00:25:36.160 --> 00:25:37.240
Can you explain that to me?

473
00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:40.559
So my I guess my example is probably the best

474
00:25:40.559 --> 00:25:42.839
one to use here in terms of fertility. My last

475
00:25:42.880 --> 00:25:46.799
surgery was in twenty twenty. At that time, my specialist

476
00:25:47.000 --> 00:25:49.119
said that my tubes are looking good. If I wanted

477
00:25:49.119 --> 00:25:51.079
to have a crack at having a baby at that point,

478
00:25:51.160 --> 00:25:53.599
it would be pretty sweet. So he didn't have any concerns.

479
00:25:54.079 --> 00:25:55.920
The thing is, I guess, you know, that was two

480
00:25:56.039 --> 00:25:59.240
years ago, so I don't know. I don't know if

481
00:25:59.319 --> 00:26:03.079
endemetria has actually grown back until I have another surgery,

482
00:26:03.160 --> 00:26:06.119
until they actually go in there. At the moment, I

483
00:26:06.160 --> 00:26:08.640
don't feel the need to have another surgery because my

484
00:26:08.680 --> 00:26:12.400
pain isn't you know, at that debility pay debilitating point

485
00:26:12.440 --> 00:26:14.160
where I'm like, I need to have another surgery. You

486
00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:15.680
need to, you know, have a look and see if

487
00:26:15.720 --> 00:26:18.599
it's come back, and hopefully I don't have to have

488
00:26:18.640 --> 00:26:22.519
another one because the recovery is so brutal. But that's

489
00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:25.359
the thing I don't know, and I don't know until

490
00:26:25.359 --> 00:26:28.119
I try. I could naturally conceive and that could be sweet.

491
00:26:28.240 --> 00:26:31.799
But the thing with ENDOH is that it can, yeah, physically,

492
00:26:32.079 --> 00:26:36.759
like physically serve as a barrier to you know, the

493
00:26:36.799 --> 00:26:42.240
whole process of making a baby, blocking the tubes and whatnot.

494
00:26:42.279 --> 00:26:46.799
It can be a physical barrier there. But yeah, it's

495
00:26:46.839 --> 00:26:48.960
just one of those things like you don't you don't

496
00:26:49.000 --> 00:26:52.680
know until you until you try. And another thing I

497
00:26:52.680 --> 00:26:56.039
guess is with the surgery is some people unfortunately fall

498
00:26:56.079 --> 00:26:58.519
into this surgical cycle where they end up having like

499
00:26:58.720 --> 00:27:01.480
some people have ten or more surgeries to remove ENDO,

500
00:27:02.119 --> 00:27:05.440
and that's because they're getting ablation done, burning from the surface,

501
00:27:05.640 --> 00:27:07.960
like that's the thing they keep going back and back. Yeah,

502
00:27:07.960 --> 00:27:10.400
it's so bad. The more surgeries you have, you're creating

503
00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:13.359
adhesions and scar tissues, and then it also can affect

504
00:27:13.359 --> 00:27:16.599
your nerves, and that's it's almost creating like this new

505
00:27:16.680 --> 00:27:18.960
onset of pain. That's you know, the pain that you

506
00:27:19.039 --> 00:27:21.440
end up being in isn't even from your ENDO, it's

507
00:27:21.480 --> 00:27:24.759
just from having all of these surgeries. And in terms

508
00:27:24.799 --> 00:27:27.119
of fertility, yeah, you really want to just take it

509
00:27:27.200 --> 00:27:29.799
easy on the surgical front in that, like you don't

510
00:27:29.799 --> 00:27:32.079
want to have heaps and heaps of surgeries because that

511
00:27:32.119 --> 00:27:36.079
can physically damage you know, the organs down there. So

512
00:27:36.119 --> 00:27:39.640
it's a pretty it's delicate. I mean, honestly, it's delicate

513
00:27:39.720 --> 00:27:42.200
in terms of even talking about it because it is

514
00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:46.079
a sensitive issue for people, but it is also literally

515
00:27:46.240 --> 00:27:48.240
physically a delicate area.

516
00:27:48.599 --> 00:27:51.559
Yeah, of course, I said earlier Bridget that this is

517
00:27:51.599 --> 00:27:53.720
something that you know, it's a term that I have heard.

518
00:27:53.839 --> 00:27:55.480
I've heard people say they have ENDO.

519
00:27:55.720 --> 00:28:00.440
Like I've never fully understood the extent of it, but

520
00:28:00.519 --> 00:28:03.240
I do feel like there's a whole lot.

521
00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:04.640
More conversation out there.

522
00:28:04.680 --> 00:28:06.960
Now there's your book, I've seen other books come out

523
00:28:07.000 --> 00:28:10.279
where people are talking about their experience. Do we have

524
00:28:10.319 --> 00:28:13.200
a sense now of just how many people are affected

525
00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:13.559
by this?

526
00:28:14.359 --> 00:28:14.640
Yeah?

527
00:28:14.720 --> 00:28:20.480
So recent information from Endemitriosis Australia came out to indicate

528
00:28:20.519 --> 00:28:23.799
that one in nine Australians have it. So just as

529
00:28:23.839 --> 00:28:27.319
common as asthma and diabetes. Yeah, like this is millions

530
00:28:27.319 --> 00:28:30.839
and millions and millions of people worldwide. And I think

531
00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:33.559
because we're you know, really driving conversation, You're seeing public

532
00:28:33.559 --> 00:28:37.079
figures talk about it, funding being announced and whatnot, which

533
00:28:37.119 --> 00:28:40.000
is fantastic. I feel like it's got to the point

534
00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:43.240
where everyone actually knows someone who has ENDO or has

535
00:28:43.279 --> 00:28:47.599
suspected endemitriosis. And a really nice thing for me working

536
00:28:47.759 --> 00:28:49.839
at Triple J and you know, connecting with a lot

537
00:28:49.880 --> 00:28:53.000
of young people on air, is that I'm connecting with people.

538
00:28:53.279 --> 00:28:57.039
I mean, I'm connecting with guys and you know, brothers

539
00:28:57.200 --> 00:29:01.480
and dads and stuff who had no idea. But now

540
00:29:01.640 --> 00:29:03.559
you know, I've had so many people message me being

541
00:29:03.640 --> 00:29:06.839
like my boyfriend or my brother had no idea about it,

542
00:29:06.960 --> 00:29:09.599
or my friend and they were like, oh I heard

543
00:29:09.640 --> 00:29:11.440
you know, I heard Bridget talk about it on Triple

544
00:29:11.519 --> 00:29:13.279
J and like for them to kind of, you know,

545
00:29:13.400 --> 00:29:16.720
open that dialogue and have that kind of conversation, I'll

546
00:29:16.720 --> 00:29:19.000
never forget. I always I tell everyone about this girl.

547
00:29:19.039 --> 00:29:21.720
She was a female trade working in the tool shop,

548
00:29:21.880 --> 00:29:25.359
and when Triple J covered my diagnosis, she was in

549
00:29:25.440 --> 00:29:29.400
the workshop with the guys and she used that as

550
00:29:29.400 --> 00:29:32.000
an opportunity to be like, hey, guys, that's actually you

551
00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:33.880
know why I've been in hospital. And they were like,

552
00:29:34.400 --> 00:29:37.319
oh shit, you know, like can you imagine some trading's

553
00:29:37.319 --> 00:29:41.240
being like, oh wow, that's gnally like, it's awesome for

554
00:29:41.279 --> 00:29:44.720
them to have that awareness and to normalize it, I suppose,

555
00:29:44.799 --> 00:29:48.799
because it's again when you link it to reproductive stuff,

556
00:29:48.839 --> 00:29:51.200
we're kind of made to feel like we can't talk

557
00:29:51.200 --> 00:29:53.319
about it. It's the same as like miscarriages and yet

558
00:29:53.359 --> 00:29:56.039
periods in general, we're made to feel like we have

559
00:29:56.160 --> 00:30:00.240
to endure it in private, and that is absolutely not

560
00:30:00.279 --> 00:30:03.480
what we should be doing. It's that's terrible.

561
00:30:03.319 --> 00:30:04.160
Exactly right.

562
00:30:04.200 --> 00:30:06.079
We should be able to be having these conversations. I

563
00:30:06.079 --> 00:30:08.359
feel like it's like all kind of women's issues really

564
00:30:08.400 --> 00:30:10.160
where it just expected to shut up.

565
00:30:10.400 --> 00:30:11.359
Yeah and deal with it.

566
00:30:11.599 --> 00:30:15.319
Yeah, and you know, maybe that's why it's taken so

567
00:30:15.400 --> 00:30:17.680
long for it to start getting attention too, because it's

568
00:30:17.680 --> 00:30:20.519
just one of those women's issues that we just shove aside.

569
00:30:21.119 --> 00:30:22.359
Tell women that they're winging.

570
00:30:22.599 --> 00:30:25.880
Yeah people, guys or yeah, I will say guys. I

571
00:30:25.920 --> 00:30:29.480
mean maybe it's a generalization, but they get offended when

572
00:30:29.519 --> 00:30:33.039
they see tampons on TV. You know, like that's controversial.

573
00:30:33.039 --> 00:30:34.880
It's like you can watch a bloody movie of someone

574
00:30:34.920 --> 00:30:38.279
getting murdered, but you can't handle a tampon. Okay, yeah,

575
00:30:38.480 --> 00:30:39.359
make it make sense.

576
00:30:39.920 --> 00:30:41.920
Fifty percent of the population exactly.

577
00:30:43.240 --> 00:30:47.240
Bridget What has been the response to the book since

578
00:30:47.240 --> 00:30:47.960
you put it out.

579
00:30:49.039 --> 00:30:52.559
It's been amazing. It reached a best selling status within

580
00:30:52.599 --> 00:30:56.359
its first week of release. It was iconic. It was

581
00:30:56.400 --> 00:30:59.319
like in the charts of the top ten nonfiction alongside

582
00:30:59.319 --> 00:31:01.920
all those Bridges books, which was hilarious because that was

583
00:31:01.920 --> 00:31:04.480
when the Netflix series came out, so it was popping

584
00:31:04.559 --> 00:31:06.680
off and it was just cool to be like, you know,

585
00:31:06.759 --> 00:31:09.160
I figures that on the charts and like the Barefoot

586
00:31:09.200 --> 00:31:10.559
Investor and stuff, I think.

587
00:31:10.599 --> 00:31:11.160
Go in though.

588
00:31:11.279 --> 00:31:14.880
Yeah, yeah, I mean I will totally flex that because

589
00:31:14.920 --> 00:31:18.160
I think it's so incredible to see such a niche

590
00:31:18.200 --> 00:31:22.680
book on such a specific chronic condition become a bestseller.

591
00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:26.240
I think that shows that as a lot says a lot,

592
00:31:26.279 --> 00:31:29.279
and I think at the same time, it's also sad

593
00:31:29.359 --> 00:31:31.480
because it's like it took you know, it took me

594
00:31:31.720 --> 00:31:34.400
to write it, Like it should have been available all

595
00:31:34.440 --> 00:31:39.279
this time. But I'm glad that, you know, people are

596
00:31:39.319 --> 00:31:43.400
responding and resonating and it's educating people. Yeah, definitely was

597
00:31:43.440 --> 00:31:45.519
a needed resource and I'm really proud of it. And

598
00:31:45.519 --> 00:31:48.519
I'm really thankful too, because it was a real collaborative effort,

599
00:31:48.559 --> 00:31:51.599
you know, I really wanted to include the patient community

600
00:31:51.640 --> 00:31:55.680
and have other voices and perspectives and make it a

601
00:31:55.720 --> 00:31:57.759
bit of a team effort, not just it's not just

602
00:31:57.799 --> 00:32:00.799
about me. It's you know, sharing my person experience. But

603
00:32:00.880 --> 00:32:03.400
it's more so serving as a practical guide, you know.

604
00:32:03.480 --> 00:32:06.400
It's it's the kind of book that I want friends

605
00:32:06.440 --> 00:32:09.400
to read. I want friends to gift to people who are,

606
00:32:09.519 --> 00:32:14.759
you know, going through that journey of seeking answers. It's yeah,

607
00:32:14.799 --> 00:32:18.480
it's a book for everyone, really, But it's been amazing.

608
00:32:18.519 --> 00:32:21.559
It's been yeah, just over a year now since it's released,

609
00:32:21.559 --> 00:32:25.319
and I'm still getting messages about it all the time,

610
00:32:25.400 --> 00:32:28.599
and you know, people say that it has like changed

611
00:32:28.599 --> 00:32:30.839
their life, which is a really loaded thing to hear.

612
00:32:31.039 --> 00:32:33.920
But that's the thing with the chronic condition. It is

613
00:32:34.039 --> 00:32:36.920
with you for life. So if, like I said, if

614
00:32:36.960 --> 00:32:39.279
I've learned about Endo in high school, that would have

615
00:32:39.359 --> 00:32:41.519
changed my life. So I can only imagine what the

616
00:32:41.519 --> 00:32:46.160
book has done for people. And I'm really grateful to everybody.

617
00:32:46.240 --> 00:32:50.039
Is grateful for you, Bridget And what is your Instagram account?

618
00:32:50.480 --> 00:32:53.839
So endo Gram? It's just at endogram so e N

619
00:32:53.960 --> 00:32:56.200
d O gr a M. Big shout out to my

620
00:32:56.279 --> 00:32:58.799
mum for thinking of the name. I remember we were

621
00:32:58.839 --> 00:33:01.720
sitting in her drum and Ballarat when I decided that

622
00:33:01.759 --> 00:33:04.640
I'd launch an Instagram account just for Endo and she

623
00:33:04.799 --> 00:33:06.599
was like, why don't you call it Indo Gram And

624
00:33:06.640 --> 00:33:08.920
I was like, yeah, fair point, Debby. And then I

625
00:33:09.039 --> 00:33:11.440
look it up, Debbie, I know. And then I looked

626
00:33:11.440 --> 00:33:13.000
it up and it was available, and I was like,

627
00:33:13.039 --> 00:33:15.279
how has no one's taken that handle? Because it's so

628
00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:19.000
it's just so simple and easy and it's you know,

629
00:33:19.519 --> 00:33:20.279
it's mine.

630
00:33:20.920 --> 00:33:21.559
That is great.

631
00:33:21.680 --> 00:33:24.640
So people can go there and connect with your community,

632
00:33:25.000 --> 00:33:27.440
and obviously they can go by the book it's called

633
00:33:27.480 --> 00:33:31.559
how to Endo and where else can they kind of

634
00:33:31.559 --> 00:33:32.640
connect with you, Bridget.

635
00:33:33.119 --> 00:33:34.599
So I mean, if you want to listen to me

636
00:33:34.640 --> 00:33:37.079
talk about music, I do that on Triple Jay Monday

637
00:33:37.079 --> 00:33:41.000
to Thursday nights. But I've got my personal account which

638
00:33:41.039 --> 00:33:44.359
is just at Bridge at Hustweight on Instagram. And yeah,

639
00:33:44.359 --> 00:33:46.799
I've just launched my own little podcast which is called

640
00:33:46.839 --> 00:33:50.559
Figuring Out thirty. So that's kind of yeah, detailing the

641
00:33:50.680 --> 00:33:53.720
last year of transitioning and this into this new chapter

642
00:33:53.759 --> 00:33:57.119
of life. But I have an episode that's coming on Fertility,

643
00:33:57.200 --> 00:34:01.160
So I've actually documented my consultation in the office with

644
00:34:01.400 --> 00:34:07.000
the gynecologist and documenting the results and everything and talking

645
00:34:07.039 --> 00:34:09.920
about my ENDO there. So that's yeah, another little thing

646
00:34:09.960 --> 00:34:13.239
that we'll be popping out a just personal insight into

647
00:34:13.280 --> 00:34:17.760
that aspect of my of my ENDO. So hopefully it helps, Yeah.

648
00:34:17.599 --> 00:34:19.519
So helpful for people. Bridget.

649
00:34:19.559 --> 00:34:21.440
Thank you so much for your time. This has been

650
00:34:21.519 --> 00:34:24.360
so informative. Thank you for everything that you are doing

651
00:34:24.440 --> 00:34:24.960
to help.

652
00:34:26.199 --> 00:34:29.320
Yeah, appreciate great questions and I've loved noticing throughout this

653
00:34:29.440 --> 00:34:32.800
chat your eyes have been like popping out of information

654
00:34:32.840 --> 00:34:35.239
because it's been a lot. But I think you successfully

655
00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:37.880
passed this crash course an endo A plus.

656
00:34:37.960 --> 00:34:39.800
Yeah, I do like a gold star.

657
00:34:40.239 --> 00:34:47.280
Yeah. You can find Bridget's book how to Endo at

658
00:34:47.280 --> 00:34:50.719
all Good bookstores and her Instagram handle is at endogram.

659
00:34:50.760 --> 00:34:52.519
We'll put those links in the show notes.

660
00:34:52.800 --> 00:34:54.800
Don't forget you can always pick up my Crappy to

661
00:34:54.840 --> 00:34:57.079
Happy books in all good bookstores as well, or you

662
00:34:57.119 --> 00:35:00.079
can listen for free on Audible. Connect with me on

663
00:35:00.159 --> 00:35:03.440
Instagram at cast done underscore XO. I am now on

664
00:35:03.519 --> 00:35:06.880
TikTok at cast done underscore XO. Thank you so much

665
00:35:06.880 --> 00:35:09.199
for listening, and as always, I cannot wait to catch

666
00:35:09.199 --> 00:35:12.159
you on the next episode of Crappy to Happy

667
00:35:16.199 --> 00:35:16.639
Listener