Feb. 27, 2023

How you can reframe your thoughts to ease your imposter syndrome

How you can reframe your thoughts to ease your imposter syndrome
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How you can reframe your thoughts to ease your imposter syndrome
How you can reframe your thoughts to ease your imposter syndrome
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Season 9 Mindset Psychology & Neuroscience Self-Confidence

Do you often find yourself feeling like you've fluked your way to the success you've achieved? Do you feel like the rug may be pulled from under you at any time... that everyone is about to find out about the 'fraud' you really are?'Imposter Syndrome' is an extremely common experience, particularly in women, where we are unable to attribute our success to our experience, skills and hard work, and believe we are imposters.
By reframing our thoughts and consciously being aware of how they can contribute to Imposter Syndrome, we can start to ease it and believe in ourselves.
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Transcript
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A listener production. Welcome to another episode of Crappy to Happy. Today,

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we are talking about one of my favorite topics ever,

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and that is imposter syndrome. What it is, what it's not,

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and potentially what you can do about it if you

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recognize that this is something that you may experience. I

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will also be sharing with you how you can get

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access to my online program which is designed for this

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very reason, to help you to overcome imposter syndrome and

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persistent feelings of self doubt and cultivate an unshakable self

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confidence that is not contingent on external markers of success validation,

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looking from praise and criticism, success and failure, and really

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developing a solid sense of self belief and self trust.

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And I created that program because I recognized that this

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was such a pervasive issue, particularly amongst the women that

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I was working with in my programs. So enough about that.

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I'll tell you more about that later, but let's talk

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about imposter syndrome. First up, It's not a syndrome. It

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is not a diagnosable disorder. It is not something that

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you can go along to a psychologist or to a

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psychiatrist or a GP and have diagnosed imposter syndrome is

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kind of a colloquial expression. It's more appropriately probably referred

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to as the impost phenomenon. It's what it was first

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called when it was first discovered back in the nineteen seventies,

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and I use it interchangeably with imposter thoughts and feelings,

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the imposter experience. The imposter phenomenon essentially what it is,

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it is a persistent belief that you are not as smart, capable, talented, knowledgeable, experienced,

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or qualified as other people think you are, despite all

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evidence to the contry. Now that's an important bit that

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despite all evidence to the contry, because let me tell

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you also straight up front, I mean I hear people

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referring to imposter syndrome. I've got imposter syndrome. I'm doing

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this thing, I'm starting my business, i am applying for

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this job. I've got imposter syndrome. Many people use that

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term to describe what I would consider to be the

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very normal, very common self doubt that we all experience

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when we're doing something for the first time, something that

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we perhaps haven't done before, something that we don't necessarily

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have direct experience in. When we're stepping up, stepping out

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of our comfort zone is very normal to have those

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feelings of self doubt. I don't believe that that is

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necessarily genuine imposter syndrome, And I think even though everybody

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gets it, when you use that term to describe that feeling,

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we all can relate to that. I think in a

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way it kind of diminishes what the genuine experience of

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those very persistent imposter thoughts and feelings. So the impost

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experience will occur even when you've been doing the job,

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when you've got the promotion, when you've achieving the distinctions

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at UNI and you've got into the master's degree, even

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when you've got into the PhD, when you're serving on board.

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It's like at the highest level of your career, people

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will still report that they can't shake the feeling that

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they've somehow flewked their way into it. They're not as

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smart as anybody else, they're not as smart as other

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people think that they are, and that any moment they

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could be found out that at any moment people will

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realize that actually they really shouldn't be here, that there's

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been a terrible mistake. It is associated with anxiety, depression, frustration,

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feeling stuck, feeling limited by your own self imposed standards.

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But mostly it's fear. It's a fear of failure, and

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to some degree it's a fear of success. Because here's

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the thing about the impost experience. When you don't internalize

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your success and we'll get to that in a minute,

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when you can't internalize your achievements, when but you're still

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not really owning that and taking that as evidence that

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you actually are that smart, that you are that capable,

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that you do belong, that you are worthy, then every

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time there's a new opportunity, every time there is a

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new success, every time somebody asks you to step up

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and do something more or bigger, then every instance is

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the potential that this could be the moment that it

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all falls apart, that people are now finally going to

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realize that actually you don't deserve to be here. So,

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in fact, for the genuine imposter experience, the more successful

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you become, sometimes the worse it gets because the higher

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the stakes, the more exposure, the more visibility, Then the

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more there is at risk, the more likely you are

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to feel that humiliation and embarrassment when people actually realize

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that you're not that smart. So as opposed to self doubt,

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where the more experience you have, the more that you're

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doing the thing, the more that you're getting the results,

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then the more likely those experiences are to actually bolster

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your confidence and to provide you with that evidence and

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that proof that actually you are capable. So that's where

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there is that distinction between kind of genuine imposter feelings

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and thoughts and the self doubt that is usually allayed

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by those feelings of doubt that are usually neutralized by

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success and achievement and by positive feedback and people telling

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you that you're doing a good job and getting that

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external validation. The imposter experience persists despite that evidence to

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the contrary. The impostor phenomenon was first identified back in

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the nineteen seventies by a couple of psychologists called pull

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in Clants and Susanne i'ms. They were professors in psychology

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and what they noticed was this phenomenon, particularly amongst they're

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high achieving female students and graduate students, this persistent feeling

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among their students. These reported feelings by their female students,

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particularly that no matter what they were achieving, they felt

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like they shouldn't be there. They felt like there was

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a mistake. They completely underrated themselves, and they just didn't

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believe that they necessarily belonged, They didn't believe in their

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own abilities. And this was so consistent that they actually

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set out to see how widespread this was, and they

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went on to interview over one hundred and fifty successful

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women who were PhD candidates, who were academics, who were

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leaders in their field. Remember this is the nineteen seventies,

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so this was when women in those positions was not

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as prevalent as it is now. They found this was

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highly prevalent among these women, very successful women. So they

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interviewed them and they came up with some ideas about

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what was going on, what was causing it. So as

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I run through that now, I think it's interesting to

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go back to the nineteen seventies to what they found

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when they interviewed women was that when those women, no

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matter how successful they were, no matter how highly they

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were achieving, could not internalize that success, When they didn't

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own that and see that as evidence of their inherent ability,

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their inherent intelligence, then what they did instead was they

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attributed that success to some external factor or to effort,

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as opposed to a stable internal quality such as intelligence,

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which is there all the time. Effort is a temporary state,

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Like we can all make an effort to work really

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hard or study really hard to get a good grade

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in that particular exam, we don't necessarily perceive that as

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a stable, inherent internal quality. So what they perceived is

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that if they were successful, it was either luck or fluke.

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They just got lucky. They got into the degree because

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there was a mistake by the admissions department. They got

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the job because nobody else applied, not because they genuinely

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deserved it, but because there was some sort of luck

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or luke or mistake. Or if they're achieving results is

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because they worked harder than everybody else. So what happens

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when you don't internalize your success, when you attribute it

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to either luck or effort, it means that that can't

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be relied upon, That success is not necessarily repeatable, because

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next time you might not be so lucky. And similarly,

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with effort, I put an enough effort to get the

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result this time, but who knows if I'll be able

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to step up to the task next time. Who knows

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if my effort will be enough to get me over

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the line next time? It's not necessarily repeatable, so therefore

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the impostor feelings the impostor believes are persistent. This becomes

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a very self perpetuating loop. If my success is only

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because I got lucky or because I worked harder, then

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the next time an opportunity presents itself, my fear is

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still there because even though I was successful, even though

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I achieved, I haven't necessarily internalized that and used that

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as evidence that I'm capable, intelligent, talented, I have those

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internal qualities that will see me through the next time.

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So at the time, this was nineteen seventy eight they

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published this paper, there was also some research had been

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done around that time as well, particularly around how men

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and women attribute success, and what they were finding was

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this exact same thing. Basically that when women were successful,

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they more likely attributed it to causes outside of themselves,

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to something temporary, whereas men, when they were successful, they

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more likely attributed their success to their own inherent capability,

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their own inherent qualities. Failure, on the other hand, women

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attributed to themselves. Men, on the other hand, were more

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likely to attribute failure to something temporary, bad luck, difficulty

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of the task, and not necessarily because they they necessarily

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were not that smart. So Clans and Imes who came

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up with this impost phenomenon, they called it the impost experience.

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They believed that this was a large part to do

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with why women had these imposter thoughts and feelings because

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of the way they attributed success and failure. I think

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that is still very relevant today the women that I

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speak to. Now I'm talking a lot about men and

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women here. This comes up a lot. Isn't there something

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that both men and women experience? The research on that

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is fairly mixed. At the time that Clants and Ims

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came out with this research and discovered this identified this phenomenon,

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they very much believed it was predominantly a female affliction.

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In the fifty years since then, lots of research has

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been done. Some of it affirms that it is more

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of a female sort of condition. I guess not that

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it's condition as we've discussed. Other research has said no,

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that it presents equally amongst men and women, And I

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certainly know that many men will say that they recognize this,

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that they experience this. I think for many reasons, it

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probably is more a prevalent amongst women, but it certainly

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can apply to both men and women. So then they

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started looking at what causes it. What they found particularly

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was that a lot of it was to do with

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family messaging. They found particularly at that time, two different

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kind of profiles of women who experienced this. The first

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were the women who had a sibling or a close

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family member who was basically labeled the smart one, and

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the girl, the little girl was labeled the sensitive one,

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or you know, something other than smart, and so no

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matter what they did, and no matter what they achieved,

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it was the other one, the sibling or the other

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family member, some close person in their circle, was identified

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as the smart one, and so they internalized that message

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that they're obviously not the smart one. The other profile

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with the little girls who were told they were the

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smart one. They were the bright one, they were the

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little genius. Everything they did was perfect, They were so amazing,

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they couldn't do a thing wrong, and therefore they had

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this expectation. They internalized this belief that success must come

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easily if I'm really that clever. This is why we

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don't tell kids they're clever, you guys, If I was

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that clever, I wouldn't have to work hard. Success should

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come easily. To me. So if I have to make

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an effort, if I have to work hard, then I'm

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obviously not as clever as those people think that I am.

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So the parents telling the kid over and over how

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amazing and brilliant and bright and wonderful and creative and

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talented they are. Actually when they found that they were

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struggling or they had to work out, I mean, they

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might have been really clever, but if they had to

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make some effort to achieve something, and the perception was

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that if I was really clever, I wouldn't have to

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work that hard, this would come easily to me, well,

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then there was that gap. Then there was that feeling

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that I'm not as smart as people think. And so

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whether the little girls fell into one or the other

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of those kind of camps, what there was was this

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discrepancy between what they experienced within themselves and what was

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being presented to them from outside. And whenever there is

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that gap between how somebody else perceives you, or the

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messages that you're getting from somebody else and what's happening

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like what you believe based on your internal experience, when

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there's that gap, it sets up this idea, this perception

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that I'm somehow fooling people, hence the impostor phenomenon that

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I'm fooling people, I'm a fraud if they really knew

225
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that this was what was happening for me. You know,

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that's essentially what the impostor experience is. In many cases,

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rather than believing the evidence, like, rather than believing the

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other people or the objective evidence that is there that

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says they're smart or capable of talented, They're more likely

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to go with their own internal experience, their own internal

231
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thoughts and feelings that this obviously, this is obviously a mistake,

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or this is obviously a fluke, or if I had

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to work hard, I'm obviously not that smart. And these

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are the kinds of experiences that people still have to

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this day. So then what they found they noticed particular

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behaviors that these women would engage in as a way

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to kind of counteract these imposter thoughts and feelings, or

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that the impost experience tended to go along with particular behaviors.

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The first one, as I said, is diligence and hard work,

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over efforting, over preparing, perfectionism, working harder than anybody else

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because that is what they believe was necessary in order

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to continue to achieve, or to continue to fool people

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into believing that they're actually that smart. I see this

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now all the time, this overworking, overachieving, over checking, triple checking, overthinking,

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never relaxing, just putting in, making things so much harder

246
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for yourself than they need to be because of this

247
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internal fear, this internal anxiety that if I just do

248
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what anybody else would consider to be a good enough

249
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job won't be good enough. I actually have to work

250
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harder in order to prove my worth and to maintain

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my position and perhap for other people to believe that

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I'm actually as smart as they think. So overwork, hard work,

253
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diligence is number one. And as I said, so the

254
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cycle and this worrying about their intelligence and using hard

255
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work and these kind of cover up strategies is what

256
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they called. It gives them a temporary feeling of relief,

257
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a temporary feeling of elation when they achieve and when

258
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they get that success, but it's temporary. There is no inherent,

259
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internal stable perception of intelligence. So the next time a

260
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challenge presents itself, then this cycle of hard work continues,

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this belief that I have to work that hard in

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order to replicate that result. The second thing I noticed,

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and remember they were mostly talking probably to academics and professors,

264
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but they did talk to professional women in other fields

265
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as well, is this intellectual flattery, so going along with

266
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the higher ups, going along with the opinions of more

267
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important people, believing that they had to stay in the

268
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good graces of more important people in order to maintain

269
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their position. And again, if you're kind of being a

270
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bit phony because you don't trust your own opinion or

271
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you don't believe that you'll maintain your place, if you

272
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express an opposing view or a different opinion, or something

273
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that challenges the opinion of somebody who's more important than you,

274
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then that's only going to reinforce those feelings of being

275
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a fraud that I don't belong here, because if I

276
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actually expressed my real opinion, then they may not still

277
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let me be here. Like then I might not get

278
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the job, I may not have maintained the role or

279
00:16:55.600 --> 00:16:58.600
the whatever it is that you have achieved. The third

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one is a little bit like intellectual flattery as opposed

281
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to more of that intellectual going along with the research

282
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or the opinion or the theory or whatever in academic

283
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circles or in business or whatever. Then more just being

284
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nice again to stay in the good graces of the

285
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people who have the power and who potentially could be

286
00:17:18.400 --> 00:17:21.279
the ones to put you out if they recognize that

287
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you're actually not that smart, So taking personal interest in

288
00:17:24.240 --> 00:17:27.039
the things that are of interest to your supervisor, for example.

289
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The other thing that they recognized back in the nineteen seventies,

290
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and I don't think a lot has changed the last

291
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fifty years, is that there was a general belief on

292
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the part of women that there would be negative consequences

293
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to being too successful or too independent. A successful independent

294
00:17:44.720 --> 00:17:48.880
woman was considered to be not a great thing. Back

295
00:17:48.920 --> 00:17:51.799
in the day, women had their place, women served a

296
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particular role, and the societal view was that there would

297
00:17:55.440 --> 00:18:00.039
be negative consequences. People would be judged and disapproved of

298
00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:04.200
if they displayed those qualities of being successful and independent.

299
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Now that's really interesting because even now there is research

300
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that indicates that when men display behaviors such as being

301
00:18:13.400 --> 00:18:17.359
very direct, being very assertive, even being angry in the workplace,

302
00:18:17.720 --> 00:18:20.640
they're perceived as having higher status. They are perceived as

303
00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:25.960
having being better leaders, like they're actually rewarded for those behaviors,

304
00:18:26.599 --> 00:18:29.039
and the more women have entered the workforce, and the

305
00:18:29.039 --> 00:18:32.119
more women have risen to high levels in society, and

306
00:18:32.119 --> 00:18:34.119
I think we'll all agree that they are nowhere near

307
00:18:34.680 --> 00:18:39.039
as represented that at those highest levels in positions in

308
00:18:39.079 --> 00:18:43.880
businesses politics. Even when women rise to those high levels

309
00:18:43.920 --> 00:18:46.200
which they are able to do now in their career

310
00:18:46.519 --> 00:18:52.400
in business, in politics, if they display those same qualities

311
00:18:52.480 --> 00:18:58.319
of being direct, assertive, angry, they are punished. When women

312
00:18:58.480 --> 00:19:02.440
display the same quality that men do, the same qualities

313
00:19:02.480 --> 00:19:06.079
that men are rewarded for, and that are the qualities

314
00:19:06.079 --> 00:19:10.640
that get men promoted and get men into these powerful positions,

315
00:19:11.119 --> 00:19:16.200
women are punished for displaying the same qualities. So there

316
00:19:16.400 --> 00:19:21.240
is a gender bias, very real, very very prevalent gender

317
00:19:21.359 --> 00:19:25.359
bias to this day. There's also racial bias. There are

318
00:19:25.359 --> 00:19:28.720
all sorts of inherent biases in the workplace that hold

319
00:19:30.119 --> 00:19:32.599
certain people back, and that is people who are not

320
00:19:33.519 --> 00:19:39.400
white men basically. So I think that persists. I think

321
00:19:39.440 --> 00:19:41.920
to this day there is a perception on the part

322
00:19:41.920 --> 00:19:45.200
of women that they have to be nice, that even

323
00:19:45.519 --> 00:19:47.519
if they want to be successful, they have to stand

324
00:19:47.519 --> 00:19:50.160
the good graces of people, that they do still have

325
00:19:50.200 --> 00:19:52.880
to use their charm that they do still have to

326
00:19:54.200 --> 00:19:57.480
There is still that sort of intellectual flattery that goes on,

327
00:19:58.079 --> 00:20:00.920
and so therefore this is why I think many women

328
00:20:01.079 --> 00:20:04.799
still have these pervasive feelings of being not good enough.

329
00:20:05.160 --> 00:20:09.079
Certainly the impost experience is more prevalent for women who

330
00:20:09.079 --> 00:20:13.079
work in traditionally male dominated industries. Not that it's only

331
00:20:13.119 --> 00:20:16.640
male dominated industries, but certainly we see it a lot

332
00:20:17.039 --> 00:20:20.839
in those careers and professions, even in something like I

333
00:20:20.880 --> 00:20:24.440
was talking to one woman who works in finance in

334
00:20:24.640 --> 00:20:28.319
the motor vehicle industry, for example. So it's kind of

335
00:20:28.480 --> 00:20:32.480
just got that. It's kind of a bloky industry, right,

336
00:20:32.519 --> 00:20:35.160
You don't often see women there. That's certainly going to

337
00:20:35.279 --> 00:20:39.039
amplify those imposter thoughts and feelings, but they can show

338
00:20:39.119 --> 00:20:42.279
up anywhere, So I guess then the question is what

339
00:20:42.559 --> 00:20:45.759
to do about it. And most of the research and

340
00:20:45.839 --> 00:20:48.119
most of the advice that has been offered. There's another

341
00:20:48.160 --> 00:20:51.240
woman by the name of doctor Valerie Young who heard

342
00:20:51.240 --> 00:20:53.160
about this research very early on. I think it was

343
00:20:53.200 --> 00:20:55.960
in the nineteen eighties. She was a graduate student at

344
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the time. She read this research and she said, oh

345
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my god, that's me. And she went on to devote

346
00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:04.920
her entire career and still to this day, has devoted

347
00:21:04.920 --> 00:21:09.200
her career to understanding and to helping women to overcome

348
00:21:09.240 --> 00:21:14.599
the impostor experience. And much of the advice has been

349
00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:17.000
that this is all about how you think. This is

350
00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:21.440
a mindset issue. A lot of the advice has very

351
00:21:21.519 --> 00:21:25.319
much been about change the way you think, like reframe

352
00:21:25.359 --> 00:21:30.720
your thoughts and you'll get a different outcome. Now, I

353
00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:34.920
don't think that that advice is really cuts it in

354
00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:37.559
this day and age. I think this is the whole

355
00:21:37.599 --> 00:21:40.559
reason why I created my program. Even back in the

356
00:21:40.640 --> 00:21:44.599
nineteen seventies, when clans and i'ms were talking about what

357
00:21:44.640 --> 00:21:48.400
we should do about the impostor phenomenon, they suggested that

358
00:21:48.440 --> 00:21:52.960
this should really be a group therapy type situation, which

359
00:21:53.000 --> 00:21:55.359
is one reason why I created my program to be

360
00:21:55.440 --> 00:22:00.640
a group program. Because when you experience the impostor phenomenon,

361
00:22:01.599 --> 00:22:05.319
you typically don't talk about it. It feels very isolating.

362
00:22:05.559 --> 00:22:08.720
You feel like you're the only one, when you feel

363
00:22:08.720 --> 00:22:11.119
like you're a fraud, when you feel like you really

364
00:22:11.160 --> 00:22:13.839
don't belong somewhere, you're not about to go telling everybody

365
00:22:13.920 --> 00:22:15.799
that you feel like that. You're spending most of your

366
00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:18.799
time just trying to keep your head above brought water

367
00:22:19.119 --> 00:22:23.440
to continue convincing people that you're actually good enough. The

368
00:22:23.480 --> 00:22:26.920
anxiety is very internal. It's very much an internal experience.

369
00:22:27.359 --> 00:22:30.160
We're not often talking about it. And even if somebody

370
00:22:30.160 --> 00:22:32.960
else says to you, oh yeah, I feel like that

371
00:22:33.160 --> 00:22:37.920
or I've got the impost syndrome, because that is been

372
00:22:38.119 --> 00:22:42.039
so overused, that phrase and that term, I think it's

373
00:22:42.160 --> 00:22:45.440
very easy to think, oh yeah, well, sure you do

374
00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:50.400
like but you don't understand like I genuinely don't belong here.

375
00:22:50.759 --> 00:22:53.200
You might feel a little bit of self doubt sometimes,

376
00:22:53.240 --> 00:22:58.720
but you don't understand like I am genuinely not supposed

377
00:22:58.720 --> 00:23:01.400
to be here. I'm genuinely not as smart as other

378
00:23:01.400 --> 00:23:04.720
people think I am. So having a group setting is

379
00:23:04.920 --> 00:23:08.599
very very beneficial. Absolutely, we need to look at our

380
00:23:09.480 --> 00:23:14.160
faulty thinking, like the beliefs that we have, the rules

381
00:23:14.160 --> 00:23:15.960
we've set up in our own mind about what it

382
00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:18.960
takes to be truly to be competent or to be

383
00:23:19.079 --> 00:23:24.400
capable or intelligent, like, we have to examine some of

384
00:23:24.440 --> 00:23:27.440
those unconscious beliefs. We go into this in detail in

385
00:23:27.480 --> 00:23:31.480
my program, where those faulty beliefs come from early childhood

386
00:23:31.480 --> 00:23:35.920
experiences family messaging about success and failure, family labels and myths,

387
00:23:36.640 --> 00:23:40.480
early trauma, adverse childhood experiences that cultivate a deep sense

388
00:23:40.480 --> 00:23:44.000
of unworthiness or feelings of not being good enough. They

389
00:23:44.119 --> 00:23:46.839
all play into it. And yes, we have to look

390
00:23:46.880 --> 00:23:49.319
at what is the thinking that's going on, because we

391
00:23:49.359 --> 00:23:52.440
need to reframe those thoughts. But I think now in

392
00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:57.839
twenty twenty three, we have moved past mindset work or

393
00:23:58.119 --> 00:24:00.640
thought work as I sometimes hear it refer to as

394
00:24:01.079 --> 00:24:08.119
as the solution to every psychological struggle. I think what

395
00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:11.759
we need to recognize now and what I have deliberately

396
00:24:12.160 --> 00:24:16.880
incorporated into my program, is that the nervous system, your

397
00:24:16.920 --> 00:24:20.599
nervous system response in a situation absolutely has to be addressed.

398
00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:23.720
If your entire nervous system, your fight or flight response,

399
00:24:23.720 --> 00:24:25.920
when we're talking about fear here, fear of failure, fear

400
00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:28.519
of success, fear of being exposed, fear of being found out,

401
00:24:28.920 --> 00:24:33.160
fear of being judged or criticized. When that is happening,

402
00:24:33.319 --> 00:24:36.920
there isn't a process happening in your nervous system that

403
00:24:37.039 --> 00:24:39.960
needs to be managed before you can even think about

404
00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:45.480
getting your actual logical brain on board and helping you

405
00:24:45.519 --> 00:24:48.519
to come up with a different way of thinking. You

406
00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:51.920
have to have strategies for managing your nervous system in

407
00:24:51.960 --> 00:24:55.000
the moment, as well as strategies that will help you

408
00:24:55.039 --> 00:24:58.319
to cultivate that deeper feelings of self worth and self

409
00:24:58.319 --> 00:25:02.599
belief in the longer term. So in my program, for example,

410
00:25:02.680 --> 00:25:05.079
we talk about strategies you can use in the moment,

411
00:25:05.359 --> 00:25:07.559
how you can calm yourself in the moment, how you

412
00:25:07.599 --> 00:25:10.720
can challenge your thoughts, how you can manage your heightened

413
00:25:10.720 --> 00:25:14.720
emotional response, you know, get you through that initial feelings

414
00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:17.880
of fear. How you can look at your behaviors, analyze

415
00:25:17.920 --> 00:25:20.079
the behaviors you're engaging in, some of which we've just

416
00:25:20.119 --> 00:25:27.720
talked about, and recognize them as imposter behaviors, unnecessary behaviors

417
00:25:28.079 --> 00:25:30.200
that you might be engaging in. To be able to

418
00:25:30.240 --> 00:25:32.599
see them for what they are, and to recognize that

419
00:25:32.680 --> 00:25:34.680
even though in the short term it feels like they're

420
00:25:34.720 --> 00:25:37.440
helping you, in the long term, all they're doing is

421
00:25:37.519 --> 00:25:41.799
reinforcing the imposter experience. And so we have to manage

422
00:25:41.799 --> 00:25:45.680
our thoughts, We have to change some of those behaviors.

423
00:25:45.880 --> 00:25:49.400
We have to slowly back away from the overworking and

424
00:25:49.440 --> 00:25:53.000
the over preparing. We also talk a lot about procrastination.

425
00:25:53.400 --> 00:25:57.640
So when we talk about overwork and perfectionism, often the

426
00:25:57.799 --> 00:26:02.640
twin of overwork and perfectionism is avoidance and procrastination. So

427
00:26:02.680 --> 00:26:06.119
when we talk about avoidance with the impost experience, sometimes

428
00:26:06.160 --> 00:26:09.839
it's completely avoiding, and we go into detail about this

429
00:26:09.920 --> 00:26:13.000
in my program as well. Sometimes avoiding is dropping out

430
00:26:13.039 --> 00:26:15.119
of the PhD, and I have spoken to more than

431
00:26:15.119 --> 00:26:17.319
one woman who has dropped out of a PhD thinking

432
00:26:17.359 --> 00:26:19.920
that their research was shit, when in fact it was

433
00:26:20.480 --> 00:26:26.519
quality or not applying at all, passing over jobs or promotions,

434
00:26:26.559 --> 00:26:29.039
looking at them, and just fully avoiding them because I

435
00:26:29.319 --> 00:26:32.799
obviously am not cut out for that. Again, we all

436
00:26:32.799 --> 00:26:35.920
know the research that men can have sixty percent of

437
00:26:35.079 --> 00:26:39.000
the necessary qualifications to go for a job and they'll

438
00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:42.880
have a crack. Women will not unless they have one

439
00:26:42.920 --> 00:26:45.440
hundred percent or more, and even then they probably talk

440
00:26:45.519 --> 00:26:48.039
themselves out of it. So I'm not saying that happens

441
00:26:48.039 --> 00:26:50.640
every time, but it happens a lot. So avoidance can

442
00:26:50.680 --> 00:26:55.519
actually be avoiding opportunities, failing to take action, failing to

443
00:26:56.480 --> 00:26:58.880
write the books about the business, apply for the job,

444
00:26:59.079 --> 00:27:01.559
apply for the unique, whatever it might be. But it

445
00:27:01.599 --> 00:27:05.839
can also be procrastination. And so when that procrastination is

446
00:27:05.880 --> 00:27:08.480
the flip side of perfectionism, what it is, it's this

447
00:27:08.559 --> 00:27:12.519
loop where if I believe that the only acceptable outcome

448
00:27:12.640 --> 00:27:14.920
is to produce perfect work, or that I have to

449
00:27:15.400 --> 00:27:17.799
doing this job because of the amount of overwork and

450
00:27:17.880 --> 00:27:20.799
over efforting that I have to put into every single thing,

451
00:27:21.440 --> 00:27:25.119
and I make so much unnecessary work for myself, then

452
00:27:25.200 --> 00:27:28.039
that can feel so overwhelming that then what happens is

453
00:27:28.079 --> 00:27:31.039
I tend to just avoid and procrastinate and tidy in

454
00:27:31.079 --> 00:27:34.799
my soft draw do every other thing except for the

455
00:27:34.839 --> 00:27:37.799
actual job. And then what happens is at the last minute,

456
00:27:37.799 --> 00:27:39.480
there's this frantic, oh my god, I've got to get

457
00:27:39.480 --> 00:27:42.359
this done by this deadline. And so we get the

458
00:27:42.599 --> 00:27:45.839
work done, we get it in. But then and there

459
00:27:45.920 --> 00:27:48.759
is a relief, there's an elation that I got it done.

460
00:27:49.200 --> 00:27:53.319
But again, if you are either being a perfectionist or

461
00:27:53.319 --> 00:27:57.319
you're being a procrastinator, when the end result is that

462
00:27:57.400 --> 00:28:02.200
you are successful, either attribute it to the fact that

463
00:28:02.240 --> 00:28:04.799
I work so hard or that I just got lucky.

464
00:28:05.119 --> 00:28:06.920
Because if I just got it in at the last

465
00:28:06.960 --> 00:28:08.799
minute and I managed to get it over the line,

466
00:28:08.960 --> 00:28:12.960
then what a relief, what a Fluke, I don't necessarily

467
00:28:12.960 --> 00:28:16.079
internalize it was because I'm actually pretty good at what

468
00:28:16.319 --> 00:28:19.960
I do. So we talk a lot about the perfectionism

469
00:28:20.039 --> 00:28:23.359
procrastination loop, have strategies for addressing that, for getting out

470
00:28:23.400 --> 00:28:26.319
of that cycle, but a lot of this is about

471
00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:29.359
also cultivating a deep sense of your own inherent worth

472
00:28:29.400 --> 00:28:35.319
and value that is not contingent on external markers of success.

473
00:28:35.680 --> 00:28:39.079
Because when you have that deep sense of your own

474
00:28:39.240 --> 00:28:45.160
worth and ability, and you can unhook from the opinions

475
00:28:45.200 --> 00:28:47.880
of other people, get out of that loop of being

476
00:28:47.880 --> 00:28:51.640
hooked on either praise or criticism, being afraid of either

477
00:28:51.920 --> 00:28:56.960
success or failure, well, then you are able to take

478
00:28:57.000 --> 00:29:00.960
more risks, do the things that feel important and inspiring

479
00:29:01.000 --> 00:29:03.720
to you. Get out of that anxiety trap, get out

480
00:29:03.720 --> 00:29:07.799
of that frustration of feeling stuck and feeling limited, and

481
00:29:07.880 --> 00:29:10.960
actually being able to live a life that is meaningful,

482
00:29:11.720 --> 00:29:16.720
that is fulfilling, in love with your values and just

483
00:29:16.759 --> 00:29:20.359
knowing that you are enough, just knowing deeply that you

484
00:29:20.480 --> 00:29:24.519
are enough and trusting that you are enough. And when

485
00:29:24.559 --> 00:29:27.839
you have success you can celebrate that. And when you

486
00:29:27.920 --> 00:29:32.279
have setbacks or failure, then that doesn't necessarily have to

487
00:29:32.319 --> 00:29:35.839
be a reflection on your sense of self worth or

488
00:29:35.839 --> 00:29:38.799
your sense of your own intelligence or competence. That's what

489
00:29:38.839 --> 00:29:41.759
we're going for on the whole. You know. I interviewed

490
00:29:42.279 --> 00:29:45.759
over fifty women about their impostive experience before I put

491
00:29:45.759 --> 00:29:49.960
together this program, the program that I run, and mostly

492
00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:52.920
when I said, what is it that you would want? Like,

493
00:29:52.960 --> 00:29:55.319
what would be different if you were able to overcome this,

494
00:29:55.519 --> 00:29:57.319
if I was able to put together a program that

495
00:29:57.359 --> 00:29:59.400
gave you all of the results that you need, Like

496
00:29:59.519 --> 00:30:02.920
what what would it be that you would experience that

497
00:30:02.960 --> 00:30:07.079
you're not experiencing now? And mostly what they said I

498
00:30:07.200 --> 00:30:09.759
was I honestly, I was expecting people to go, oh,

499
00:30:09.880 --> 00:30:12.039
I could write the book and I'd launch the business,

500
00:30:12.079 --> 00:30:14.240
and i would go for gold with my career and

501
00:30:14.279 --> 00:30:18.400
I'd be you know, kicking goals. And mostly what they

502
00:30:18.440 --> 00:30:19.119
said was.

503
00:30:20.240 --> 00:30:26.160
God, I could just breathe, I could just relax, I

504
00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:27.960
could just be happy.

505
00:30:29.400 --> 00:30:34.440
Honestly, I was not expecting that. But that is a

506
00:30:34.480 --> 00:30:39.240
worthwhile outcome. And if my program or any program can

507
00:30:39.359 --> 00:30:44.880
deliver you that, then I think that is job well done.

508
00:30:45.200 --> 00:30:47.680
So if you have any other questions about the impost experience,

509
00:30:47.680 --> 00:30:50.079
and that's been a fairly brief kind of summary, But

510
00:30:50.119 --> 00:30:51.920
I hope that helps to explain it, and I hope

511
00:30:51.920 --> 00:30:54.920
that helps you to differentiate what I consider to be

512
00:30:55.000 --> 00:30:58.400
the genuine impost experience from more just that typical kind

513
00:30:58.440 --> 00:31:00.880
of self doubt we all experience. There's a lot of

514
00:31:00.920 --> 00:31:03.240
advice out there, but how you can overcome self doubt.

515
00:31:03.960 --> 00:31:06.519
I will give you that advice for free, and you

516
00:31:06.559 --> 00:31:07.880
can find it all over the internet.

517
00:31:08.319 --> 00:31:12.359
But if you know in yourself that that advice doesn't

518
00:31:12.400 --> 00:31:14.799
cut it, that that just doesn't get to the core

519
00:31:14.839 --> 00:31:18.279
of the issue for you, then I would really invite

520
00:31:18.319 --> 00:31:23.000
you to consider at some point maybe checking.

521
00:31:22.759 --> 00:31:24.480
Out the program that I have created, which is not

522
00:31:24.559 --> 00:31:27.079
just an online training program. It's actually a minimum twelve

523
00:31:27.119 --> 00:31:31.920
months inside a community with regular calls, regular check ins, lovely, vibrant,

524
00:31:31.960 --> 00:31:36.039
supportive community. I've added loads of bonuses this year. What

525
00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:39.279
I'm doing also is having some of my most special

526
00:31:39.319 --> 00:31:43.880
podcast guests have agreed to come in and do private

527
00:31:45.079 --> 00:31:48.400
sessions like Q and A sessions with my community. So

528
00:31:49.240 --> 00:31:52.160
it's really really going to be something special and something

529
00:31:52.680 --> 00:31:56.960
really worthwhile. So I'll put some a link in the

530
00:31:57.039 --> 00:32:00.279
show notes to help you if you want to get

531
00:32:00.279 --> 00:32:02.759
involved in that. No obligation of course. I hope this

532
00:32:02.759 --> 00:32:05.640
has been helpful information anyway, and I will continue talking

533
00:32:05.680 --> 00:32:08.039
about it. So make sure that you're following me, maybe

534
00:32:08.079 --> 00:32:10.000
get onto my mailing list if this is something that's

535
00:32:10.039 --> 00:32:12.720
of interest to you. I hope that's helpful. Cannot wait

536
00:32:12.759 --> 00:32:15.359
to catch you on the next episode of Crappy to

537
00:32:15.400 --> 00:32:21.680
Happy Listener