June 26, 2022

Letting go with Hugh van Cuylenburg

Letting go with Hugh van Cuylenburg
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Letting go with Hugh van Cuylenburg
Letting go with Hugh van Cuylenburg
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Season 7 Personal Growth & Healing Positive Psychology

Hugh van Cuylenburg wants everyone to be happier, and he’s passionate about how practices like gratitude, empathy and mindfulness can help. Hugh is the founder of The Resilience Project, where he teaches positive mental health in schools and sports clubs around the country. In this chat Hugh explains the difficulties he had with his sister growing up, the struggles of getting schools to take mental health seriously and the personal crisis he had during lockdown. Connect with Hugh:https://theresilienceproject.com.au/Buy his books here: The Resilience Project: https://booktopia.kh4ffx.net/resilience-projectLet Go: https://booktopia.kh4ffx.net/let-go
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Transcript
WEBVTT

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A listener production.

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This is Crappita Happy and I am your host Castunn.

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I'm a clinical and coaching psychologist and mindfulness meditation teacher

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and of course author of the Crappita Happy books. In

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this show, I bring you conversations with interesting, inspiring, intelligent

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people who are experts in their field and who have

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something of value to share that will help you feel

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less crappy and more happy. I can't believe it has

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taken me this long to have Hugh van Silemberg on

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the podcast, but once we got talking, we could have

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talked for hours. You might know who from his book

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The Resilience Project or his podcast The Imperfect.

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Hugh has been.

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Banging on about the benefits of gratitude, empathy, and mindfulness

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for the longest time. He became a school teacher initially

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after watching his sister struggle with her mental health, thinking

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that if he could help kids with their mental health

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then they would hopefully grow up to be happy adults.

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He has since gone on to create The Resilience Project,

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where he teaches mental health skills to kids across the country.

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That program is now also in big sporting clubs all

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around the country, including AFL clubs, the National Rugby League

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and the Australian cricket team.

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And as I.

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Said, Hugh now also hosts his very own popular podcast

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called The Imperfects, where he gets seemingly perfect very well

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known Australians like Hamish Blake to talk about all of

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their insecurities and share their vulnerability. In our chat, Hugh

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shared with me what it was like growing up with

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a sister who struggled with mental health issues, the challenges

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that he has had getting his work into schools, as

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well as.

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The success that he has had on the.

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Personal crisis that he had during Lockdown, which led to

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him writing his most recent book, which is called Let Go.

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This is a really special conversation. I hope that you

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love it.

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Here's Hugh You welcome to the Crapy to Happy podcast.

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Thank you so much for having me. As my phone

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beeps at the worst possible.

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I know, I've better put mine on the silent too.

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I normally do that and I get a bit slack sometimes, Hugh.

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I was just saying to you earlier that I feel

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like everybody knows who you are from your the amazing

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book that you write, the Resilience Project, and the work

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that you do, and you do have another book out

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more recently. I feel like I'm the only person in

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Australia hasn't had you on the show to talk about

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the Resilience Project.

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It's very remissive me. So can we start there.

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Can you please tell me about the Resilience Project and

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how that came about?

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Yeah, happily, and thanks for having me on. By the way,

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I really love this podcast. I listened to most recent

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lists of the episode with is it Mosha? Is that right? Yes?

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Mind wandering? Yes? Yeah, I'd read a similar book is

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There a little bit on mind running? And it completely

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blew my mind. And then I listened to that episode

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and I just yeah, you have amazing conversations. They're so

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they're so good. So thanks for having on it. It's

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a real thrill.

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Oh it's a pleasure. And thank you for saying I

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find that fascinating too. We could have a whole separate

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conversation about.

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And mind worting, but let's talk about you today.

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You what was a question?

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Tell me about the Resilience Project? How did it come

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to be right from the beginning?

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Yeah, well, I guess I mean some people will be

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thinking I've heard the story before, but I might try

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and tell them a little bit of a different way,

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in a way that I haven't really told before. But

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we growing up as kids, we had a very very

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happy childhood, very blessed. In fact, my wife and I

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last night we went out for dinner and a movie,

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which we never ever, ever ever get to do, and I,

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for some really weird reason, chose the suburb that I

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grew up in. Like, I said, oh, we should go there,

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and it's not close to home. I was like, I

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like to go there, and she said, well, it's a

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bit of a day. You posted, why are we going there?

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We could go here or hearing I said, I just

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I actually don't know, I just really want to go there.

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And we ended up in the suburb of Born in

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Melbourne and we're to a movie and I was sitting

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that I just I it was such a nostalgic. I

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don't know, I just I seen and I said to

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I think the reason when to come here is I

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just have their most amazing memories of my childhood. I

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was so lucky your big backyard and very present parents,

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and went to good schools and loved playing sport in

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the backyard, and these beautiful memories of you know, in

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the winter, sliding around in the grass pretending I was

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an AFO footballer, and in summer it was playing cricket

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until it got dark and getting bit by mosquitoes and

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begging Dad to keep playing. And so you had a

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really happy childhood. When I was fourteen, no sorry, when

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my sister was fourteen, I was seventeen, she was diagnosed

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with anorexia and nevosa. So mom and Dad sat me

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down when I was seventeen and my sister was fourteen.

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My little brother, Josh it was eleven at the time,

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and I said, your sister's not well. And I think

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she played neple that day. It was nepple. And I said,

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what are you talking about. She's fine. I said, now

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she's sick and I said she played nepple. She was definitely,

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she's definitely not sick. And they said, no, no, your

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sister's going to a mental illness on a physical illness.

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And I said, ah, right, And I said do you

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understand And I said, nad that we were not talking

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about mental illness in the nineties at schools, well really anywhere.

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I don't not that I'm were, but definitely in my world,

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it was not a thing that was ever talked about.

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I had no idea what they were talking about. And

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they explained that when she eats food, she'll get better.

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And I thought, Okay, that does not sound serious at all,

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Like if she just has to eat food, that is

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not serious, Like that's far from serious. And it got

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worse and worse and worse, and it just was so

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grooming our household. And I remember the day my sister

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was admitted to the hospital, coming home from the hospital,

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and she was eighteen and I was twenty twenty one,

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and I remember seeing the dinner table and we're having dinner.

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It was just sisters in the hospitals, me, my dad,

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and my brother Josh. And Dad got up really early.

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I hadn't finished his dead but he just got up

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and went stood at the kitchen sink and I thought

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he was just doing the washing up. And I asked

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him something. He didn't answer, and I turned I asked

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him again. I turned around and I looked at him

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and he was I'll never forget. I'll never ever forget this. This

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still makes me really emotionally ever think of it, but

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I'll never forget the very sad figure of this silhouette

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of my dad standing out of the kitchen sink, just sobbing.

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And I had only ever seen Dad cry once before that,

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when our old died. It was like literally ten years

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before that. I'd never seen Dad cry apart from that,

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and I think that was kind of the moment A

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lot of things happened for me. First all, that's when

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I realized how serious this mental illness was. I mean,

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I think I knew deep down, but I sort of

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ignore it. I was pretending it wasn't happening because I

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just didn't know how to deal with something so painful.

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So I just, like a lot of men, I went,

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I think i'll just not focus on that. I'll pretend

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it's not happening. So I kind of ignored it. But

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when I saw Dad crying, two things happened. I realized

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how serious it was. But the second thing that happened

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was I became deeply fascinated in the question what is

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it that makes people happy? I knew I couldn't go

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into the hospital and fix my sister. I knew that

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was well beyond me, but I did want to help.

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I just remember thinking, my mum and Dad are not happy.

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My brother's not happy. I want to help them to

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be happier. And I had no idea, I absolutely no

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idea what to do or how I would achieve that.

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But I very soon after that I changed my I

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was actually studying at the time neuropsychophysiology, which is of

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course I couldn't even spell, so I was never going

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to pass it. And I just had this desire to

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be in schools, and so I quit that course, which

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is such a huge mistake. I wish i'd kept going.

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I would have loved to have. But I went into

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teaching because I had this sort of if I go

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to schools and I'm a teacher, that I can stop

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kids getting a mental illness. And I had no plan

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on how I was going to do that. In fact,

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my first job was at a girls school because I

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remember thinking, oh, there were be heaps of kids there

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that could potentially be out of my sister, so I'll

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go there. I remember my first day in the classroom

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like going, Okay, let's stop these kids getting it's a littleness.

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I don't know how. I have absolutely no idea how

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to do this, but I remember having that strong feeling

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when I was in there. I wasn't thinking about literacy

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or numeracy or there are eleven year old girls, and

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I was seeing that, going I'm going to make these

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kids the happiest kids in the world. And yeah, we

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had a lot of fun, but I had no idea

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what I was doing, and it probably wasn't until I

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was in I mean I was. My sister was still

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sick the whole way through this whole journey of my teaching,

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and my partner at the time, she was also a

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school teacher. We met at university. Her name is Angelie.

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She's an amazing teacher, incredible person, and I was so

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blessed to meet her at Union and spend our time

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here at Union. And she said to me, I want

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to go. And we're living together at a time, and

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she said, I want to go and live. I want

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to go overseas somewhere. And I didn't want to because

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I was such a homebody and I wanted to stay

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in Born and go to the cinema and get all

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that kind of stuff. And she was desperate too, so

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we ended up going overseas and we chose India because

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her dad is Indian. So I thought we'll go to

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India and we were over there, I said, let's do

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some teaching so we can get paid, and we needed

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to earn some money, and she said, I think we

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should volunteer, and I said, no, we should, No, No,

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we to teach. She's the same thing as we get

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paid for it. And she's just got such a beautiful

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spirit and such a generous, compassionate person. Do we're over here,

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we're going to go and we've seen people who need

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teachers over here, like desperately need let's go and volunteer.

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And I sort of agreed to it. And when a

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community said you can live here for you know, you

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can live with the principal for a couple of weeks

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and you'll get three meals a day, I thought, oh

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that's terrific. You know that we're on a shoe string budget.

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I wasn't being a tired us. We were on a

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shoe string budget, so we kind of had to I

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was considering that where she was just she's just got

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this really philanthropic nature about it. She was thinking, I

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don't really care, let's just volunteer. I'll never forget the

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feeling of shock that I felt when we arrived in

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this village and we were being shown around, and I

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realized in this village there was no running water, there

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was no electricity. We were sleeping on the floor, there

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were no beds, and I remember thinking, very early on,

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I can't do this. I actually can't do this. There's

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no way I'm staying a few weeks here. There's just

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it's not like I can't do it. I would love to,

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but I just can't. She, on the other hand, was thinking, no,

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this is perfect as well, this is going to be

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good for us, and I was thinking, how sleep on

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a floor gonna be good for us? And I my

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first day in the school changed my life forever because

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I just met these kids. One kid in particular, her

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write about the book a lot called Stuns. And I

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remember this kid the impact he had on me. I

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mis remember thinking to myself, I've never in my life

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seen joy like this before. I've never seen joy like it,

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and I remember thinking I'm so. I remember looking across

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the dinner in the middle of the desert. The classrooms

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were there was a blackboard in every classroom, one piece

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of chalk. There was a stick which had cotton wrapped

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around her or like some kind of material that you

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would use to rub off the board did it really

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work properly? So there was just it. It looked like

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hundreds of years worth of like writing in the background.

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You had to write over the top of it. Kids

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sitting on the floor that got their school uniform. As

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far as I could see, that was pretty much all

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our owned for closes, their school uniform, shoes that were

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just I mean, if we saw a kid wearing their

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shoes in a school in Australia would be really concerned,

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you know. But all the kids had these old shoes

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are too small for them. And I just remember thinking

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to myself, I've never seen you all like this, and

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I became very fascinated by that. And it's easy to

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join the dots on your journey. Looking back, I don't

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think at any point I thought, well I need to

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experience this so I can then go back to Australia

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and set up this thing. But I think my sister

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struggles back home inspired me to go, G know what,

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I'm going to leave you as long as it takes

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me to work out what are these people doing every

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single day that just makes them so happy? So we

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stayed for three and a half months, and all the

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podcasts I've done, and all the stories I've done. I

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soon after we got back from India, my ex and

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I wheretually broke up, and so soon after that I

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went started telling the story about going to India. So

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and I cut her out of the story purely because

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I found it very hard to talk about it. It was

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just I didn't want to break up sor right. So

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I was like, I didn't want to turn up to

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schools every and talk about someone that I sort of

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still want to do my life. So that we've recently

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got back in touch, was in literally in the last

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few months, and it's been really nice and and so

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I feel like I've never really given her credit for

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the fact that I went there because of her, and

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we went to that village because of her, and we

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stayed as long as we did because of her. I've

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never given her the credit for that, and I feel

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like I need to. But when we were there, and

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when I was there, I just remember this one kid

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in particular, called Stunts. And if people google me, I

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think you don't have to. You don't have to scroll

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too far to find a photo of this kid's stuns.

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And so I talk about him. Ever, I go he

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just did these things every single day because they're running

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the village, they all. So what they did was they

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practiced gratitude, empathy and mindfulness, which is on the front

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cover of the book. So it's not a huge surprise

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from anyone. But they just practice these things every single day.

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And I could have sort of joined in just because

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it was weird if we didn't. You know, they'd do

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this meditative chance every single morning for like half an hour.

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I remember thinking it was a ridiculous waste of time.

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But it wasn't until I came back to Australia and

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looked into the research behind these things, and you would

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know this being a psych but there is decades and

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decades and decades of research screaming at us that these

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things gratitutr empthy and mindfulness. They're not the silver bullet

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that just make you happy and stop you having a

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mental illness ever. But what they do do is they

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push you up the mental health spectrum, you know, as

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your podcast would say, they can take you from crappy

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to happy pretty quickly. And so this is such a

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long answer to your question. Sorry, okay, no, I love it,

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But that pint of how the Resarch project, SAT came

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back to Melbourne and I started. I went back to

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teaching and I had a group of about thirty kids

305
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that I was teaching, and I started bringing gratitude, empthy

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and mindfless into my own classroom. I wasn't I didn't

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tell any at the school I was doing it because

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I was worried that'd say no, don't do that. And

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I think they probably would have gone back because you're

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not here to teach them that. It's literacy and numeracy

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sort of.

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When was this like? Is this back in the.

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Early in India? Two thousand and eight, right and two

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thousand and nine I was back and ten I was

315
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back teaching in the classroom. I had a group of

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kids who were disengaged from traditional schooling. So it was

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the opposite of a private girls school which I mentioned before.

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It was a group of teenage boys who were really

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struggling in really struggling in mainstream schooling, were a bit lost,

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and so I had these boys and I would start

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the morning every morning with this twenty minute walk around

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these two this this huge park, and all they were

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allowed to do is think about what they could hear

324
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and then I have to come back and write down

325
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the things they could hear was that I couldn't really

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get them to sit still and do a meditation, but

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they would do that because they were very kind of

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like tactile or didactical or that they just love movement,

329
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and so we would do that. End of the day,

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they had to just write on a piece of pap

331
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from their desk three things went well for them during

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the day, and they didn't have to call it out

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or say they just had to leave it there so

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I could see. So that was the gratitude stuff. And

335
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we had this rolling we called it a rolling act

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of kindness where no one knew who was on at

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that time. Someone had to start it and they would

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do something kind for someone else and then that person

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was onto them. Then they'd pass it on to someone else,

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and so we were doing stuff like that, and I

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just noticed that just had this a huge impact on

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these boys who I don't know, and I didn't measure it.

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There was no research on it. It just I just

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felt like in my heart, I just felt like it

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was really big for these boys, and did it with

346
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this The next year, I had a group of boys

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a few girls in the classes or did it again,

348
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and it just seemed to be really big for them

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as well. And then Homer thinking I want to I

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want to reach more people with this stuff. I think

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I'm going to go and do talks to school. And

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so I quit my job as a teacher. And we

353
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were telling the people I was quitting and they said, oh,

354
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you're starting your own business. And this is how green

355
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I was. I really had no idea what was doing.

356
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I said, no, no, I'm not studying business. I'm just going

357
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to go and do talks to school. And they said, what,

358
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what's school? I said, I don't know. A call my

359
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old school where I went to school, and I said,

360
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you would love to have you come back and speak,

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And they said how much does it cost? And I went,

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h it's one hundred and forty nine dollars and I mean,

363
00:16:03.960 --> 00:16:05.960
what to speak for an hour for the whole year? Yep,

364
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And I went wow, okay, yes, great. I remember thinking wow,

365
00:16:10.159 --> 00:16:11.879
that's pretty cool. Hundred FW dollars for an hour. This

366
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is unbelievable. I was like, I'm going to be loaded.

367
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This is just ridiculous. And then and then I called

368
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my I called the school I taught, and I told

369
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them and they went, yeah, no, it is how much.

370
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I said, one hundred found dollars. I was like, oh,

371
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my gosh. I was thinking, how this is like, I'm

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making so much money. This is outrageous. And then I

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started calling schools who had never heard of me, and

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people were going, sorry, mate, who are you? And I

375
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was like trying to explain, and I went, yeah, n

376
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We'll be fine, thanks very much. How mean, where have

377
00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:37.799
you done this before? And I said, oh, this school

378
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and this school, and I went so just two schools

379
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at the school you went to, in a school you

380
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taught at. I was like, yeah, but they loved us,

381
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and there were going, we'll just come back to us

382
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next year. And it was three years of seriously lonely

383
00:16:51.639 --> 00:16:54.000
and a lot of nose, like a lot of notes.

384
00:16:54.039 --> 00:16:56.799
I remember sitting at one of the most exclusive private

385
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schools in Melbourne and with the assistant principal, one of

386
00:17:01.120 --> 00:17:04.279
the most maybe the most exclusive, and I was sitting

387
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in there and I was looking out the window and

388
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there were four gardeners working on the same hedge and

389
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I remember the guy said to me, sorry about we

390
00:17:10.960 --> 00:17:13.400
don't have money in the budget for that, and I

391
00:17:13.400 --> 00:17:15.480
was thinking, ooh, could you get one of the gardeners

392
00:17:15.480 --> 00:17:17.759
to stay over in the morning. Whatever. But but I

393
00:17:17.799 --> 00:17:19.880
look back and what I was offering back then, you know,

394
00:17:19.960 --> 00:17:21.960
it wasn't It was a presentation, that's it. But now

395
00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:24.640
it's you know, we now got I think it's about

396
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four hundred and twenty thousand kids around Australia doing our

397
00:17:27.960 --> 00:17:31.759
curriculum every single day and tuning into our digital program

398
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which we created with you know, half and half of

399
00:17:34.279 --> 00:17:35.279
Hamish and Andy's team.

400
00:17:35.319 --> 00:17:36.759
And it's amazing.

401
00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:40.200
But you were ahead of your time all that stuff

402
00:17:40.240 --> 00:17:41.960
that everybody's talking about now.

403
00:17:42.160 --> 00:17:44.839
Like back then, you know, I was in the field

404
00:17:44.880 --> 00:17:45.480
and it.

405
00:17:45.480 --> 00:17:49.960
Was pretty new, even that positive psychology and all the

406
00:17:50.000 --> 00:17:53.000
benefits of it and focusing on strengths, and you.

407
00:17:52.960 --> 00:17:56.480
Know that was that wasn't widely talked about.

408
00:17:56.960 --> 00:18:01.599
Yeah, it's very true. I remember people's positive psychology and

409
00:18:01.640 --> 00:18:04.240
I would I was very careful to say I wanted

410
00:18:04.200 --> 00:18:06.240
to say. I said, not not really, I said, it's

411
00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:08.640
some elements of positive psychology. I know the people who

412
00:18:08.720 --> 00:18:11.599
are who do positive psychology are pretty like, this is

413
00:18:11.640 --> 00:18:13.920
our thing and don't do it if you're not us

414
00:18:14.920 --> 00:18:19.319
and so, which is which is fine. But I I

415
00:18:19.400 --> 00:18:23.000
for a while people saying you need to study positive psychology,

416
00:18:23.000 --> 00:18:24.640
you need to do it, or you need to go

417
00:18:24.680 --> 00:18:28.160
back to you and studied, And I thought, I understand

418
00:18:28.200 --> 00:18:31.200
why people are saying this. But what I do is

419
00:18:31.200 --> 00:18:34.519
I go and tell really emotional or highly I hope,

420
00:18:34.519 --> 00:18:39.440
what are emotionally engaging stories based off my life. And

421
00:18:39.680 --> 00:18:44.799
what I saw was gratitude, empathy, and mindfulness and these

422
00:18:44.799 --> 00:18:46.599
are things that I think have saved my sister's life

423
00:18:46.640 --> 00:18:50.400
as well, by the way, And I don't want to

424
00:18:50.440 --> 00:18:53.400
get up on stage and say here are some things

425
00:18:53.440 --> 00:18:56.559
that other people have research that. Well, sorry, I do

426
00:18:56.599 --> 00:18:58.200
that with great chat with your marfinness. But people saying

427
00:18:58.200 --> 00:18:59.480
you need to be talking about mindset, you're not talking

428
00:18:59.519 --> 00:19:02.519
about mindset. And I would say a mindset is amazing,

429
00:19:03.119 --> 00:19:05.920
like growth mindset is. It's incredible. But I don't have

430
00:19:05.960 --> 00:19:09.119
an emotional story that is going to engage an audience

431
00:19:09.160 --> 00:19:10.680
to link to that. It would literally be saying, oh,

432
00:19:10.720 --> 00:19:12.559
they're also there's a sing called growth mindset. And when

433
00:19:12.559 --> 00:19:15.039
you've got a growth mindset, to me, that's not what

434
00:19:15.079 --> 00:19:18.720
we do at Zonies projects, Like we have these beautiful

435
00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:23.000
stories of these kids in India who who literally would

436
00:19:23.039 --> 00:19:24.920
point out to me every single day how lucky they

437
00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:28.480
were to have shoes, or to have a school UNFOT,

438
00:19:28.559 --> 00:19:30.839
or to have lunch provided for them, or as riset.

439
00:19:31.279 --> 00:19:34.119
I didn't have stories about kids in India going. Also,

440
00:19:34.359 --> 00:19:36.720
I have a growth mindset, so you might want to

441
00:19:36.720 --> 00:19:40.160
talk about that. So I just felt like to be

442
00:19:40.480 --> 00:19:42.279
for this to work, if I'm going to go to

443
00:19:42.319 --> 00:19:46.039
schools and talk, it needs to be really authentic experience

444
00:19:46.119 --> 00:19:48.359
to me in my life. And that's kind of what's

445
00:19:48.359 --> 00:19:51.680
worked for us. And so it's funny you mentioned positive

446
00:19:51.720 --> 00:19:54.599
psychology because early on, you know, Pill from Joel on

447
00:19:54.640 --> 00:19:57.160
Grammar and particularly were saying, well, it's not positive psychology.

448
00:19:57.160 --> 00:19:58.359
If you want to do positive coology had to come

449
00:19:58.400 --> 00:19:59.880
and train with us and more teacher and then you can,

450
00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:02.519
which I was very grateful for and that's fine, But

451
00:20:02.599 --> 00:20:05.279
I didn't have an emotional connection to a lot of

452
00:20:05.279 --> 00:20:07.799
the stuff that they were teaching, and so I thought, no, no,

453
00:20:07.839 --> 00:20:10.640
I need to be authentic to me and my experience

454
00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:13.960
and do this in a way that works for me,

455
00:20:15.279 --> 00:20:17.880
and which has been amazing. We had this we haven't

456
00:20:17.880 --> 00:20:19.880
really started talking about this publicly yet, Cus, but we

457
00:20:19.920 --> 00:20:22.559
had this initial interest. You enormously. But we and I

458
00:20:22.640 --> 00:20:24.359
bring this up now just because I think some people

459
00:20:24.359 --> 00:20:27.200
were thinking, if it's not positive psychology, it's probably not

460
00:20:27.240 --> 00:20:29.039
going to work. You can't just use elements of it

461
00:20:29.200 --> 00:20:32.720
and hope. But we had a research of Madelaide University

462
00:20:32.759 --> 00:20:35.240
or research team a few years ago heard that we

463
00:20:35.240 --> 00:20:37.640
were in a thousand schools and I think they thought,

464
00:20:39.119 --> 00:20:40.920
is anyone going to evaluate this program or is this

465
00:20:41.400 --> 00:20:43.000
We're just all going to just jump into this. And

466
00:20:43.400 --> 00:20:45.920
so they actually did an evaluation of it, which made

467
00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:47.559
me quite nervous at the time because we get great

468
00:20:47.559 --> 00:20:49.559
anecdotal feedback, but I was worried they were going to

469
00:20:49.559 --> 00:20:53.200
publish this thing saying well, it doesn't work. And so

470
00:20:53.319 --> 00:20:55.440
what they did was they looked at eighty thousand kids

471
00:20:57.519 --> 00:20:59.920
in Australia who are not doing our program and compared

472
00:20:59.920 --> 00:21:04.279
with eighty thousand kids that are doing our program. And yeah,

473
00:21:04.359 --> 00:21:06.359
and it was kind of it was a huge sample size,

474
00:21:06.400 --> 00:21:10.599
a huge sample size, and I never when they gave

475
00:21:10.599 --> 00:21:12.000
me the results, I didn't know if I should be

476
00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:14.599
happy or sad. I still haven't worked at our house.

477
00:21:14.680 --> 00:21:17.039
So what they found was the eighty thousand kids around

478
00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:20.759
Australia not doing our program in the year twenty twenty

479
00:21:20.839 --> 00:21:24.720
twenty one, well nine twenty nineteen twenty twenty one, symptoms

480
00:21:24.759 --> 00:21:28.359
of anxiety depression went up greatly and their feelings of

481
00:21:28.400 --> 00:21:31.599
hope and life satisfaction went down, which is not a

482
00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:33.599
huge surprise, I don't think of what we've just been through,

483
00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:36.400
we're going through. But what they found was the kids

484
00:21:36.559 --> 00:21:40.640
who Resilience Project schools, their depression and anxiety didn't go

485
00:21:40.759 --> 00:21:44.759
up at all, and their satisfaction and feelings of hope

486
00:21:44.799 --> 00:21:48.160
actually went up in twenty twenty which I saw that

487
00:21:48.200 --> 00:21:51.720
and I felt this great pang of pride or excitement,

488
00:21:51.799 --> 00:21:53.960
but then I thought, oh my god, we're only in

489
00:21:53.960 --> 00:21:56.559
a thousand schools. There's a lot more schools in Australia,

490
00:21:57.119 --> 00:22:00.240
and so it was this mixed kind of feeling. But yeah,

491
00:22:00.279 --> 00:22:02.920
it was a nice validation I guess for what.

492
00:22:02.839 --> 00:22:06.160
We do totally totally, and I guess, you know, and

493
00:22:06.200 --> 00:22:08.480
the evidence there to be able to go to schools

494
00:22:08.519 --> 00:22:10.359
and say this is why you need it. Now, now

495
00:22:10.400 --> 00:22:12.200
you've got something tangible that you can say it's not

496
00:22:12.240 --> 00:22:15.000
just anecdotal, it is here's the evidence.

497
00:22:15.160 --> 00:22:16.519
Yeah, it is nice to be able to present this

498
00:22:16.519 --> 00:22:18.480
stuff to prospective schools and say, oh, by the way

499
00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:19.119
it works.

500
00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:24.799
Yeah, by the way, yeah, I love that you. You know,

501
00:22:24.839 --> 00:22:27.200
you stayed authentic and in integrity with yourself and you

502
00:22:27.240 --> 00:22:30.359
tell stories because that is obviously what connects with people

503
00:22:30.359 --> 00:22:34.160
and what engages people. And I being a psychologist myself,

504
00:22:34.240 --> 00:22:37.000
I think there is a real it's it's double edged.

505
00:22:37.039 --> 00:22:38.759
Like I was really keen to go and get my

506
00:22:39.519 --> 00:22:43.240
clinical well not even clinical, but just my registration as

507
00:22:43.240 --> 00:22:46.000
a psychologist even when I was life coaching, because I

508
00:22:46.079 --> 00:22:46.680
wanted that.

509
00:22:48.079 --> 00:22:48.759
Credibility.

510
00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:50.240
You know, I wanted to be able to say, like,

511
00:22:50.279 --> 00:22:52.599
I'm qualified to talk about this stuff, but there's this,

512
00:22:52.720 --> 00:22:54.400
and I think many psyches will relate to this.

513
00:22:54.839 --> 00:22:57.880
Once you've got the qualification, you kind of become so.

514
00:22:59.880 --> 00:23:02.559
A sense of restriction or constriction about what you can

515
00:23:02.599 --> 00:23:06.279
talk about because you can't just share an opinion. Everything

516
00:23:06.319 --> 00:23:07.799
that you say has got to be backed up by

517
00:23:07.880 --> 00:23:10.880
evidence because you're a psychologist and you've got to maintain

518
00:23:10.960 --> 00:23:14.279
this ethical standards, and you know it's got to be

519
00:23:14.519 --> 00:23:17.319
you know, you get conditioned into having to have twenty

520
00:23:17.319 --> 00:23:19.759
five references to back up everything that you say, Like

521
00:23:19.839 --> 00:23:23.160
it's it's irresponsible to just throw an opinion or something

522
00:23:23.319 --> 00:23:24.400
an anecdote out there.

523
00:23:24.960 --> 00:23:27.839
It's a totally I know exactly what you're saying. It's

524
00:23:27.839 --> 00:23:30.480
such a tight line that you sort of have to.

525
00:23:31.000 --> 00:23:34.000
We on our podcasting Perfect, We've got a psychologist on

526
00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:35.920
once a month who will pick out her favorite part

527
00:23:35.920 --> 00:23:39.519
of an episode and then talk about it. And I've

528
00:23:39.559 --> 00:23:42.519
known Emily for a very very very very long time

529
00:23:42.599 --> 00:23:46.279
since we were kids, and I'm so sorry you're doing this,

530
00:23:46.960 --> 00:23:51.440
but every episode we are so restricted by she'll say something, actually,

531
00:23:51.519 --> 00:23:53.319
quit it that out. I actually probably can't say that

532
00:23:53.359 --> 00:23:56.599
as I'm not your psychologist. I'm not giving because we'll

533
00:23:56.640 --> 00:23:59.240
talk about things and issues in our life and she'll say, okay,

534
00:23:59.240 --> 00:24:01.359
so I'm not your psychologic just this is not advice.

535
00:24:01.960 --> 00:24:05.240
This is a thing that it's so funny to do exactly.

536
00:24:05.279 --> 00:24:06.960
And then and then we'll turn the microphone off and

537
00:24:06.960 --> 00:24:09.960
she'll say, oh, read this amazing. She'll tell me something unbelievable.

538
00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:11.200
I go, we should say that, and she goes, I

539
00:24:11.240 --> 00:24:13.000
can't say that because of this, this and this. So

540
00:24:13.400 --> 00:24:16.000
it's a really interesting space you're in, and it's something

541
00:24:16.039 --> 00:24:17.920
I'm very aware of as well as someone who talks

542
00:24:17.920 --> 00:24:21.000
about mental health who doesn't have the education and the

543
00:24:21.079 --> 00:24:24.720
qualifications that you do. I'm very scared of I'm petrified

544
00:24:24.759 --> 00:24:28.400
of saying something that's going to cause harm or someone's

545
00:24:28.440 --> 00:24:31.119
going to go, oh, it's clinical advice. I'm not a psychologist.

546
00:24:31.119 --> 00:24:33.960
I just I'm fascinated by the topic, and I read

547
00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:35.799
a lot, and I listen to a lot of people

548
00:24:35.839 --> 00:24:38.240
like yourself, to a psychologists, and I'll pass on what

549
00:24:38.319 --> 00:24:42.599
you guys say. But even that makes me nervous. So yeah,

550
00:24:42.599 --> 00:24:43.599
I understand exactly.

551
00:24:47.400 --> 00:24:50.720
I hope that you're enjoying this conversation and realizing the

552
00:24:50.720 --> 00:24:53.640
benefits of positivity in your own life. If you are

553
00:24:53.759 --> 00:24:56.480
enjoying the show, please be sure to like and subscribe

554
00:24:56.480 --> 00:24:58.839
so that you get notified when you EPs drop and

555
00:24:58.920 --> 00:25:01.000
head on over to Apple pod casts or wherever you

556
00:25:01.079 --> 00:25:10.680
listen and leave us a rating and review. How did

557
00:25:10.720 --> 00:25:12.960
this become like you talking to a couple of schools

558
00:25:13.079 --> 00:25:16.240
to becoming okay away from schools. Now you're in sporting clubs.

559
00:25:16.279 --> 00:25:17.680
You're telling me off air that you were just with

560
00:25:17.720 --> 00:25:20.559
the State of Origin team.

561
00:25:20.920 --> 00:25:22.000
How has it developed you?

562
00:25:23.599 --> 00:25:26.960
I have such it's been in extraordinary journey and exhausting

563
00:25:28.039 --> 00:25:30.200
because for three years, no one said yes. When people

564
00:25:30.200 --> 00:25:34.519
started saying yes, I just said yes to everything and everyone,

565
00:25:34.559 --> 00:25:35.960
and I never said I was like, I'm not going

566
00:25:36.039 --> 00:25:39.680
to say no. I will not say no. And I

567
00:25:39.759 --> 00:25:41.640
was stupid because some of the stuff I did was

568
00:25:41.720 --> 00:25:44.519
just ridiculous. I been burnt out quite a few times.

569
00:25:44.519 --> 00:25:47.480
But it just word of mouth. I never did advertising.

570
00:25:47.519 --> 00:25:49.079
I never did marketing. I probably should have been the

571
00:25:49.079 --> 00:25:51.279
first three years, but I remember thinking, I just want

572
00:25:51.319 --> 00:25:52.559
this to be word of mouth. I feel like that's

573
00:25:52.599 --> 00:25:55.680
the most powerful way, most authentic way to grow this.

574
00:25:57.119 --> 00:26:00.839
I'm a huge fan of the band The National, and

575
00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:02.799
I remember reading an article about them saying they're the

576
00:26:02.839 --> 00:26:08.319
last rock band to grow organically and authentically without social media,

577
00:26:08.359 --> 00:26:11.119
without in this new age of like things going viral.

578
00:26:11.240 --> 00:26:14.519
It was just their music. You know. They'd play gigs.

579
00:26:14.559 --> 00:26:16.880
Every single notes footage of them playing gigs where there's

580
00:26:16.920 --> 00:26:19.680
like one person there and they are giving it everything.

581
00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:21.599
There's footage of them go out on stage and there's

582
00:26:21.640 --> 00:26:24.480
no one there at a gig and they gave it

583
00:26:24.519 --> 00:26:26.599
everything because the guy who was doing the sound was

584
00:26:26.640 --> 00:26:29.160
really enjoying it and he told him mate, and and

585
00:26:29.359 --> 00:26:30.880
that had a big impact on me, and I thought

586
00:26:31.000 --> 00:26:35.759
just whenever you get on stage, give it absolutely everything

587
00:26:35.839 --> 00:26:39.319
you have, because one person might tell another teacher and

588
00:26:39.359 --> 00:26:40.880
they might say, as you get sky in your school.

589
00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:43.640
And then that was my attitude and my approach, and

590
00:26:43.680 --> 00:26:47.519
it really it just took off at a certain point

591
00:26:47.559 --> 00:26:50.799
it took off. I remember I remember having thoughts three

592
00:26:50.839 --> 00:26:53.440
years in it. I'm done. I feel so lonely, like

593
00:26:53.519 --> 00:26:56.359
I'm by myself doing this and no one's interested. And

594
00:26:56.400 --> 00:26:58.680
I was outside of school about to go to emergency teaching,

595
00:26:58.680 --> 00:27:01.519
and I got a phone call from a a lady

596
00:27:01.519 --> 00:27:03.680
I wish I remember her name, and she said, I

597
00:27:03.680 --> 00:27:05.680
don't know anything about you. My friend just gave me

598
00:27:05.680 --> 00:27:08.359
your number. I'm at a conference with fifty principles you

599
00:27:08.400 --> 00:27:10.240
don't speak, hasn't turned up. Can you be here in

600
00:27:10.279 --> 00:27:12.359
an hour? I said I could beat her an hour

601
00:27:12.400 --> 00:27:15.559
and a half and she said, that'll do. Drive as

602
00:27:15.640 --> 00:27:18.599
quick as you can, please. And I went into the

603
00:27:18.640 --> 00:27:20.359
school and said, I'm so sorry I can't come today,

604
00:27:20.359 --> 00:27:22.359
and they went, what do you mean you're here? And

605
00:27:22.400 --> 00:27:25.000
I said no, I'm sorry. I just I'm sorry, and

606
00:27:25.200 --> 00:27:27.079
they said you'd never welcome back, which is fair enough.

607
00:27:27.720 --> 00:27:29.920
And I got the card. I drove to this conference,

608
00:27:30.039 --> 00:27:31.880
and I had no schools on the books at that point.

609
00:27:33.279 --> 00:27:37.279
I'd exhausted my contacts and I remember thinking to myself, well,

610
00:27:37.359 --> 00:27:40.799
this is kind of make or break and I and

611
00:27:40.839 --> 00:27:43.119
it was just one of those I mean you, I've

612
00:27:43.160 --> 00:27:45.200
heard you speak about flow before, but it was just

613
00:27:45.240 --> 00:27:47.240
like that. I got up there and it just it

614
00:27:47.319 --> 00:27:49.759
just flowed beautifully. And it was my phone was buzzing

615
00:27:49.799 --> 00:27:51.319
in my back pocket heaps, and I was thinking, gosh,

616
00:27:51.359 --> 00:27:54.039
this is so distracting. It was Principal sending me emails

617
00:27:54.079 --> 00:27:56.240
as I was speaking to book me in, and we

618
00:27:56.240 --> 00:27:59.240
booked in forty eight. I booked in forty eight schools

619
00:27:59.640 --> 00:28:02.759
out of the fifty principles in the next week, and

620
00:28:03.400 --> 00:28:05.039
all of a sudden it just took off as a

621
00:28:05.039 --> 00:28:09.160
school program. And I remember, how did it get to sport?

622
00:28:09.279 --> 00:28:12.319
It's a very it's an amazing story. I was playing cricket.

623
00:28:13.039 --> 00:28:14.759
I played cricket my entire life, and I was a

624
00:28:14.799 --> 00:28:17.240
captain of my side. And a guy came up to me,

625
00:28:17.279 --> 00:28:19.160
one of the new player's dads, and he introduced himself

626
00:28:19.160 --> 00:28:20.759
and he was a lovely bike. We're having a chat.

627
00:28:21.359 --> 00:28:22.759
He asked what I did, and I said, I talked

628
00:28:22.759 --> 00:28:26.000
about resilience in schools. He said, oh, our workplace could

629
00:28:26.039 --> 00:28:28.400
do with that, and I said all right, and he said,

630
00:28:28.480 --> 00:28:29.880
would you like to come and speak at my workplace?

631
00:28:29.880 --> 00:28:31.200
I said where do you work? And he said at

632
00:28:31.200 --> 00:28:34.240
the Melbourne Storm and there was the rugby league team

633
00:28:34.240 --> 00:28:36.920
and I thought he meant like the staff there, and

634
00:28:36.960 --> 00:28:38.559
I said, yeah, no. I sent me and email a

635
00:28:38.599 --> 00:28:40.559
join the work wolf se. He emailed me and said,

636
00:28:40.599 --> 00:28:42.839
it's the it's the playing group. I want the playing

637
00:28:42.839 --> 00:28:44.000
group to listen to you spoke. I'm a head of

638
00:28:44.039 --> 00:28:47.559
well being at the Melbourne Storm and I said, oh, look,

639
00:28:47.599 --> 00:28:49.480
this is a school program. I don't know if it's

640
00:28:49.480 --> 00:28:51.440
going to work for those boys, and he said, oh,

641
00:28:51.599 --> 00:28:53.039
if it doesn't work, it doesn't work, but at least

642
00:28:53.039 --> 00:28:54.920
we're going to try it. And I took a bit

643
00:28:54.960 --> 00:28:57.920
of convincing because I was thinking I didn't feel qualified.

644
00:28:58.000 --> 00:28:59.720
I was like, I'm not qualified too, and then I

645
00:28:59.759 --> 00:29:01.640
said that to him and he said, didn't you tell

646
00:29:01.640 --> 00:29:03.759
me you tell stories about your life? I said yeah.

647
00:29:03.759 --> 00:29:05.519
He said, who's better qualified than you to tell stories

648
00:29:05.519 --> 00:29:07.680
about your life? And I said, okay, we'll give it

649
00:29:07.720 --> 00:29:09.960
a go. And I remember I was five minutes in

650
00:29:09.960 --> 00:29:12.359
a Billy Slater of all people, stopped me. He said,

651
00:29:12.400 --> 00:29:14.519
he put his hand up and I said, yes, mister Slater,

652
00:29:16.000 --> 00:29:18.279
and he said, can I swear on this podcast?

653
00:29:18.319 --> 00:29:20.799
I haven't checked, so yeah, yeah.

654
00:29:20.319 --> 00:29:23.480
People too. But he said this is fucking awesome. Keep

655
00:29:23.480 --> 00:29:26.359
going and I went, oh, I wasn't going to stop,

656
00:29:26.359 --> 00:29:29.160
but thank you. And I remember at that point I

657
00:29:29.640 --> 00:29:32.119
actually took a breath for the first time five minutes

658
00:29:32.119 --> 00:29:34.160
in because I was so nervous and so sit of

659
00:29:34.240 --> 00:29:37.759
on edge, and I actually looked around at the boys

660
00:29:37.839 --> 00:29:42.440
faces and I remember going, wow, this is really hitting home,

661
00:29:42.680 --> 00:29:46.480
like this is I've got them. This is like more

662
00:29:46.519 --> 00:29:49.480
than I've ever seen before. And I finished the session

663
00:29:49.559 --> 00:29:51.799
and then this guy, Brian feel and the well Bang

664
00:29:51.839 --> 00:29:54.279
offers had got up and said, I hope you enjoyed that, guys,

665
00:29:54.799 --> 00:29:56.119
Let's chat about what we want to do about this

666
00:29:56.119 --> 00:29:57.440
week and chat about it. One of the players said,

667
00:29:57.480 --> 00:30:00.279
can you like, when's he coming back? And I still

668
00:30:00.279 --> 00:30:03.480
there at the time, and I said, I'm happy to

669
00:30:03.519 --> 00:30:04.759
come back and spin the sad. Yeah, let's put it

670
00:30:04.759 --> 00:30:06.319
again this time next So I did another one next week,

671
00:30:06.319 --> 00:30:08.799
but when I was there the next week, the head

672
00:30:08.839 --> 00:30:11.279
of the NRL's well being. A lovely guy called Paul

673
00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:13.880
Heppenstall was there and I didn't know who was at

674
00:30:13.920 --> 00:30:15.200
the time, but I did the talk and he came

675
00:30:15.240 --> 00:30:16.160
up to me and he said, I want you to

676
00:30:16.200 --> 00:30:18.440
go to every club in the competition, and I want

677
00:30:18.440 --> 00:30:20.119
you to do seven. I want you to speak to

678
00:30:20.160 --> 00:30:23.400
the playing group, to their partners, to the head office,

679
00:30:23.400 --> 00:30:25.759
from every club to the under twenties under right ends

680
00:30:25.839 --> 00:30:28.519
under sixteenes, so six talks at every club. Can you

681
00:30:28.559 --> 00:30:31.519
do that? And I couldn't. I was exhausted at that

682
00:30:31.519 --> 00:30:33.440
point from the school's work, but I said, yep, no worries.

683
00:30:33.480 --> 00:30:36.200
And I spent the next six months nearly killed myself

684
00:30:36.920 --> 00:30:39.119
go every club. But at that point then it was

685
00:30:39.240 --> 00:30:41.599
the few stories came out one of the boys, and

686
00:30:41.640 --> 00:30:43.319
I wrote abouts in the first book. One of the boys,

687
00:30:44.200 --> 00:30:48.319
going to his name is Martin Kennedy played for the Roosters.

688
00:30:50.559 --> 00:30:53.079
When I was speaking to the Rooster's players, he had

689
00:30:53.119 --> 00:30:55.759
his head down, arms folded, pull his hoodie over his head,

690
00:30:56.319 --> 00:30:58.160
and I remember thinking, I don't know who this guy is,

691
00:30:58.200 --> 00:31:01.279
but he hates this. He walked out as soon as

692
00:31:01.319 --> 00:31:03.119
the session fish players usually hang around to have a chat.

693
00:31:03.119 --> 00:31:04.720
He just walked straight off, and I thought, he's adding this,

694
00:31:05.519 --> 00:31:08.160
but I'll never forget that fune everything it was. He's

695
00:31:08.240 --> 00:31:09.759
kind of a scary looking guy. So I just I

696
00:31:09.839 --> 00:31:11.759
just for some reason his face. I just every now

697
00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:12.920
and again to look up, and he short of looked

698
00:31:12.920 --> 00:31:16.880
angry and he put his head down again. And about

699
00:31:17.200 --> 00:31:19.000
a year later, I did a talk in Sydney. It

700
00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:21.960
was just a public one at I can't remember the venue,

701
00:31:21.960 --> 00:31:23.319
but it was open to the public and there was

702
00:31:23.359 --> 00:31:25.119
about probably a thousand people there, maybe a little bit

703
00:31:25.119 --> 00:31:28.079
more than that. And I saw him walk in just

704
00:31:28.119 --> 00:31:29.960
before I started. Now, just as I was starting, he

705
00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:33.079
walked in with it. It looked like his mum, and

706
00:31:33.119 --> 00:31:35.799
I thought, well, that's weird. And I saw a few

707
00:31:35.799 --> 00:31:37.240
people that knows him because hes quite a well known

708
00:31:37.279 --> 00:31:41.000
person in Sydney. And I finished the show. I finished

709
00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:43.519
the talk, and I was calling him talks back then.

710
00:31:43.519 --> 00:31:44.839
I called him a show now because there's lot more

711
00:31:44.839 --> 00:31:47.119
than just a talk now. But I finished the talk

712
00:31:47.400 --> 00:31:49.640
and every other crowds that I left, and he was

713
00:31:49.680 --> 00:31:51.400
hanging around. I saw him hanging around, and so I

714
00:31:51.480 --> 00:31:53.599
came out and he came up to me and his

715
00:31:53.720 --> 00:31:55.920
mum was patting on the back and she said tell him,

716
00:31:56.480 --> 00:31:58.279
and he went to talk and he couldn't. He started

717
00:31:58.319 --> 00:31:59.880
crying and he stopped and he put his head down

718
00:32:01.480 --> 00:32:05.119
and I says, everything right, and she said that's okay. Well,

719
00:32:05.839 --> 00:32:07.440
maybe we'll get to touch another way, and he walked

720
00:32:07.480 --> 00:32:09.200
out and I left the venue and he was still

721
00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:13.240
out in the front about twenty minutes later, and he

722
00:32:13.279 --> 00:32:15.000
came up to me with his mum and he said,

723
00:32:15.400 --> 00:32:18.480
I want you to know your talk. He said, when

724
00:32:18.480 --> 00:32:21.599
you when I turned up to footy that day, I

725
00:32:21.640 --> 00:32:23.960
had made plans to end my life. I had got

726
00:32:23.960 --> 00:32:25.559
everything I needed. It was in the back of my

727
00:32:25.599 --> 00:32:28.279
car and I was gone the way to mom and

728
00:32:28.319 --> 00:32:30.359
Dad's place down the beach. They weren't home for the

729
00:32:30.359 --> 00:32:33.039
weekend and I was going to take my life, and

730
00:32:33.079 --> 00:32:35.920
his mum balling her eyes out, and he said, but

731
00:32:36.519 --> 00:32:38.799
because of the talk he gave, I'm still here and

732
00:32:38.839 --> 00:32:40.160
I want you to know that. And he gave me

733
00:32:40.200 --> 00:32:43.559
a massive hug, and his mum gave me a massive hug,

734
00:32:43.759 --> 00:32:47.400
and I just stories started coming out like that, and

735
00:32:47.480 --> 00:32:50.680
then it gained a bit of publicity, and then it

736
00:32:50.759 --> 00:32:52.839
just it was the Australian cricket team and it was

737
00:32:52.839 --> 00:32:56.319
AFL Clubs and it was wow. The Olympics, Australia lit

738
00:32:56.359 --> 00:32:57.599
me team and all of a sudden, it was just

739
00:32:57.640 --> 00:33:00.960
this thing that just it was. It was too big

740
00:33:01.000 --> 00:33:02.599
for me to handle, to be honest, it was kind

741
00:33:02.640 --> 00:33:05.759
of and I started to Then I started to struggle,

742
00:33:05.799 --> 00:33:07.319
and that's what the next book, Let Go, was about.

743
00:33:07.400 --> 00:33:10.920
I really started to struggle because I was being everything

744
00:33:10.920 --> 00:33:13.319
for everyone and I was running around. I remember Mum

745
00:33:13.400 --> 00:33:16.039
said to me once Mum was hated how much I

746
00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:18.000
was just taking off all the time. And I had

747
00:33:18.000 --> 00:33:20.359
a young our five year old was you know when

748
00:33:20.359 --> 00:33:21.720
he was one or two years old, I was I

749
00:33:21.759 --> 00:33:24.279
was in the state all the time, and I wanted

750
00:33:24.319 --> 00:33:25.720
to be home with my son. That's all I've ever

751
00:33:25.759 --> 00:33:27.640
wanted to do is to be a dad. But I'd

752
00:33:27.640 --> 00:33:29.880
booked in all these talks a year before he was born.

753
00:33:29.960 --> 00:33:31.400
So I was like, well, I have to go. And

754
00:33:31.640 --> 00:33:34.720
I remember saying to mom my Mum had come over

755
00:33:34.759 --> 00:33:38.359
to look after Benji and I was leaving bags of

756
00:33:38.400 --> 00:33:39.640
packed and I was running late for the airport. I

757
00:33:39.640 --> 00:33:42.400
stressed like, buddy, see your mum, sir a penny and

758
00:33:42.440 --> 00:33:44.799
my wife and Mom said she just shook her head.

759
00:33:44.799 --> 00:33:47.200
It was such a disapproving look. And I said, these

760
00:33:47.200 --> 00:33:49.720
people they really need me, like they really need this.

761
00:33:49.799 --> 00:33:51.440
I needs. I've been told them I need to look someone.

762
00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:53.519
They need someone to look after them for this. And

763
00:33:53.559 --> 00:33:58.039
she said, and who's looking after you? And I was like,

764
00:33:58.119 --> 00:34:00.759
well that's at the time brushed off at the time.

765
00:34:00.839 --> 00:34:04.880
I look back at it and yeah, it was yeah, mums. No,

766
00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:05.759
you're right, mums.

767
00:34:05.759 --> 00:34:05.799
No.

768
00:34:06.400 --> 00:34:08.400
I want to talk about what happened next to you.

769
00:34:08.480 --> 00:34:09.800
But before I do, I just want to pick up

770
00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:13.159
on something you said before about you said for three years,

771
00:34:13.519 --> 00:34:15.599
you said yes to everything, and you said I was

772
00:34:15.639 --> 00:34:21.239
so stupid because I burnt myself out. And I just

773
00:34:21.440 --> 00:34:24.639
think that you weren't so stupid. That's what everybody does well.

774
00:34:24.679 --> 00:34:27.039
People who want to be successful. People will feel passionately

775
00:34:27.039 --> 00:34:29.280
about what they do. They do say yes to everything,

776
00:34:29.320 --> 00:34:31.280
and I think that's a personal You get to a

777
00:34:31.320 --> 00:34:33.719
point where you start to learn to say no. And

778
00:34:34.079 --> 00:34:35.280
I got a bit of a this is a bit

779
00:34:35.320 --> 00:34:38.800
of a digression. I've got a bit of a personal

780
00:34:38.880 --> 00:34:42.119
beef with people who say, let me give you the

781
00:34:42.119 --> 00:34:44.360
shortcut so that you know I make all the same

782
00:34:44.360 --> 00:34:47.280
mistakes that I made and I think no, every one

783
00:34:47.320 --> 00:34:49.360
of us has got to make our own mistakes and

784
00:34:49.440 --> 00:34:53.599
learn those lessons for our selves. Wouldn't you agree, like

785
00:34:53.880 --> 00:34:56.840
you got it when people say, no, this is what

786
00:34:56.880 --> 00:34:58.199
I did, and there is the mistakes I made, and

787
00:34:58.199 --> 00:35:00.760
this is what I let me shortcut you your road.

788
00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:04.800
I'll tell you no, like it doesn't happen. Every one

789
00:35:04.840 --> 00:35:07.159
of us has got to learn those lessons for ourself

790
00:35:07.159 --> 00:35:08.559
about saying no boundaries.

791
00:35:08.920 --> 00:35:11.960
It's a really, really nice point and I've never thought

792
00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:13.880
about that, but it's actually very true. I had lunch

793
00:35:13.880 --> 00:35:16.400
with the guy yesterday who is wanting to do a

794
00:35:16.400 --> 00:35:19.519
similar thing that basically he wants to do something very

795
00:35:19.519 --> 00:35:22.079
similar to what I'm doing, and he just wanted to

796
00:35:22.079 --> 00:35:25.440
pick my brain, and I was I actually found myself

797
00:35:26.840 --> 00:35:29.239
not saying stuff like make sure you don't burn yourself out,

798
00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:32.039
make sure you don't and I was subconsciously, but I

799
00:35:32.079 --> 00:35:34.360
think I was. I think I was clearly thinking what

800
00:35:34.440 --> 00:35:36.000
you were thinking. Like, I think he's going to make

801
00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:36.719
a lot of mistakes.

802
00:35:36.760 --> 00:35:39.800
But yeah, but that's his road right now, and I

803
00:35:39.960 --> 00:35:40.519
will have to.

804
00:35:40.800 --> 00:35:44.639
You don't learn as much from a guy saying don't

805
00:35:44.760 --> 00:35:47.079
say like you know, I think you need to go

806
00:35:47.159 --> 00:35:49.679
through that point of like I was twally my thumbs

807
00:35:49.719 --> 00:35:51.480
for three years, so I was like, well, I'm not

808
00:35:51.480 --> 00:35:54.320
going to say no and I and it's funny now

809
00:35:54.320 --> 00:35:57.440
as a forty two year old, I am just now

810
00:35:57.519 --> 00:36:01.000
learning to say no to people, and gosh it, it's good.

811
00:36:01.280 --> 00:36:03.800
I'm really like, it's been good for me. But it's

812
00:36:03.840 --> 00:36:05.760
taken a long time to get to that point. But

813
00:36:05.920 --> 00:36:08.320
I only arrived at it through making the mistakes, as

814
00:36:08.320 --> 00:36:10.719
you said, So I'm glad. Yeah, no one stopped me,

815
00:36:10.800 --> 00:36:12.360
and people tried to stop me, but I was like, no, no, no,

816
00:36:12.480 --> 00:36:13.519
I'm fine. I'm fine, I'm fine.

817
00:36:14.239 --> 00:36:16.440
And when you said it, I've done the same thing.

818
00:36:16.559 --> 00:36:19.519
So I was hearing your story going yep, I totally

819
00:36:19.519 --> 00:36:21.280
relate to that. I've done exactly the same thing. Like

820
00:36:21.320 --> 00:36:22.960
I've had to get there myself, and nobody could have

821
00:36:23.000 --> 00:36:25.840
told me, like no, start saying no when you when

822
00:36:25.840 --> 00:36:27.320
you're in it and you're doing it.

823
00:36:27.800 --> 00:36:28.400
You get there.

824
00:36:28.599 --> 00:36:28.840
Yeah.

825
00:36:28.960 --> 00:36:32.159
Yeah, so you at the start of the pandemic.

826
00:36:32.840 --> 00:36:35.280
You you know, you've got a much bigger following than

827
00:36:35.320 --> 00:36:38.000
what I do. But even myself having written a book

828
00:36:38.039 --> 00:36:40.519
called Crappy to Happy, having a podcast called Crappy to happy.

829
00:36:40.800 --> 00:36:45.079
The requests and the emails started coming in. Can we

830
00:36:45.119 --> 00:36:48.440
talk about how do we handle this, this thing we've

831
00:36:48.440 --> 00:36:52.960
never handled before, the pandemic, the anxiety, the toilet paper shortage.

832
00:36:52.559 --> 00:36:53.559
Like what's going on?

833
00:36:54.000 --> 00:36:57.719
And everybody starts wanting you to help them through this

834
00:36:57.800 --> 00:36:59.159
thing that none of us have done before.

835
00:36:59.280 --> 00:37:00.280
Yeah, you know.

836
00:37:00.280 --> 00:37:01.760
For me at the time, and I know you can

837
00:37:01.800 --> 00:37:03.679
relate to this, it was like, Fuck, I've never been

838
00:37:03.679 --> 00:37:05.559
through a pandemic before. I can tell you what. I

839
00:37:06.119 --> 00:37:07.639
can tell you what some of the signs says. I

840
00:37:07.679 --> 00:37:09.559
can tell you what I think was going on with this.

841
00:37:09.679 --> 00:37:13.480
And I did three solo episodes of this podcast called

842
00:37:13.840 --> 00:37:16.960
Coping with COVID, like just three sort of short episodes

843
00:37:17.000 --> 00:37:19.360
of covering some of these topics, and they're the most

844
00:37:19.400 --> 00:37:24.079
downloaded episodes of all time really, so they were really needed,

845
00:37:24.119 --> 00:37:27.880
Like people were really looking for help at that time.

846
00:37:28.519 --> 00:37:31.039
So you were in the same boat. So what talk

847
00:37:31.119 --> 00:37:32.320
me through what happened for you?

848
00:37:32.840 --> 00:37:36.400
I did the whole like, yep, yep, I'm happy to

849
00:37:36.519 --> 00:37:39.280
happy to chat there. And it was radio interview after

850
00:37:39.519 --> 00:37:41.960
like just like you like interviews and interviews and interviews,

851
00:37:41.960 --> 00:37:45.440
And there were some warning signs along the way that

852
00:37:45.679 --> 00:37:49.079
potentially I wasn't coping. I remember my daughter was eight

853
00:37:49.119 --> 00:37:51.360
months old at the time, because she was born February

854
00:37:51.360 --> 00:37:54.000
twenty twenty, and she was eight months old and she

855
00:37:54.039 --> 00:37:57.159
wasn't sleeping. She still doesn't sleep very well, and she

856
00:37:57.320 --> 00:37:59.039
was sick. She had a running nose and she had

857
00:37:59.360 --> 00:38:02.599
a really blocked and she was well, so she wasn't sleeping.

858
00:38:02.639 --> 00:38:05.519
I remember lying on the floor in her bedroom getting

859
00:38:05.559 --> 00:38:07.480
really I got really angry at her. I was saying,

860
00:38:07.639 --> 00:38:10.679
just sleep, this is just ridiculous, go to sleep. I

861
00:38:10.719 --> 00:38:12.440
got really angry at her. And the next morning I

862
00:38:12.440 --> 00:38:15.039
woke up and I was like, how do I just

863
00:38:15.079 --> 00:38:17.039
get angry at an eight month old who's sick like

864
00:38:17.079 --> 00:38:18.719
that is not I've never been angry at anyone in

865
00:38:18.760 --> 00:38:21.360
my entire life, and now I'm angry at my eight

866
00:38:21.400 --> 00:38:26.039
month old daughter. That's I remember thinking, that's I was

867
00:38:26.119 --> 00:38:31.679
so disappointed in myself. And then about probably a week later,

868
00:38:31.679 --> 00:38:35.400
I did an interview on Ed Cavalie and Dave Hughes

869
00:38:35.599 --> 00:38:39.280
radio show, and I'd only said the interview finished and

870
00:38:39.360 --> 00:38:41.079
Dave Hughes lives in Sydney, but his family is in

871
00:38:41.119 --> 00:38:43.920
Melbourne when he's doing this via the radio show, so

872
00:38:43.960 --> 00:38:45.639
he knew that people in Melbourne are tough, and he

873
00:38:45.639 --> 00:38:47.960
finishing knew by saying, hey, just quickly just checking how

874
00:38:48.000 --> 00:38:51.760
are you? How are you going? And I said, I'll

875
00:38:51.800 --> 00:38:53.679
never forget this. I was sitting in the in the

876
00:38:53.719 --> 00:38:55.920
cupboard at home to get away from the kids so

877
00:38:55.960 --> 00:38:57.679
I could get some space. I'm sitting in the cupbod

878
00:38:57.719 --> 00:39:04.000
so it was dark. H yes, yeah, exactly. I was

879
00:39:04.000 --> 00:39:05.960
scrunched up in a ball in this cupboard with pennies

880
00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:09.400
like clothes all over my head, which is great for sound.

881
00:39:09.440 --> 00:39:13.039
Apparently it was. Actually, that's exactly right. So I'm hiding

882
00:39:13.039 --> 00:39:15.559
in pennies dresses, which sounds a bit weird. But and

883
00:39:15.599 --> 00:39:17.039
I have a phone up and he said how are

884
00:39:17.039 --> 00:39:20.440
you going? And I said I'm totally and utterly broken.

885
00:39:21.239 --> 00:39:23.639
And as I said that, I went I covered my mouth.

886
00:39:23.639 --> 00:39:26.719
I went, oh, what have I just said? This is

887
00:39:26.960 --> 00:39:28.559
I'm meant to be the guy? What have I just

888
00:39:29.079 --> 00:39:30.840
And I had this and they went quiet from it

889
00:39:30.880 --> 00:39:33.480
and said, oh, okay, hope you go, okay, mate, thanks

890
00:39:33.480 --> 00:39:35.679
for joining us. We'll see you next time, bah blah blah.

891
00:39:35.800 --> 00:39:38.079
And I sat there going, oh god, oh god, what

892
00:39:38.119 --> 00:39:39.119
have I just said? Hang?

893
00:39:39.159 --> 00:39:39.239
On.

894
00:39:39.559 --> 00:39:41.400
I haven't even admitted that to myself yet. Why have

895
00:39:41.480 --> 00:39:43.039
I just said that to tens of thousands of people

896
00:39:43.039 --> 00:39:47.079
in Sydney. And I came out of the closet. I

897
00:39:47.119 --> 00:39:49.400
came out of the closet and I went down the

898
00:39:49.400 --> 00:39:52.760
hallway and I Penny like trying to manage the breakfast

899
00:39:52.800 --> 00:39:54.000
and the kids and me. She said, how'd you go?

900
00:39:54.079 --> 00:39:58.079
And I said, I'm not good? What do you mean?

901
00:39:58.119 --> 00:40:00.519
I said, I'm not coping with this. I'm not coping.

902
00:40:00.559 --> 00:40:02.079
I'm not a good place. And she said you're okay?

903
00:40:02.079 --> 00:40:04.000
And I was like crying, like I'm not. I just

904
00:40:04.079 --> 00:40:06.679
told they fuse of all people that I'm.

905
00:40:06.559 --> 00:40:09.559
Not Australia basically yeah, yeah.

906
00:40:09.599 --> 00:40:12.760
And and but the second I told her, I was

907
00:40:12.800 --> 00:40:15.199
flooded with this. You might be able to tell me

908
00:40:15.280 --> 00:40:16.760
this is. I don't know if it's actually toased, I

909
00:40:16.760 --> 00:40:18.079
don't know what it is, but I was flooded with

910
00:40:18.119 --> 00:40:21.599
this warm. I went from crappy to happy. I just

911
00:40:21.639 --> 00:40:24.800
felt I felt really positive. Yeah, I just felt really good.

912
00:40:24.840 --> 00:40:27.800
And I all of a sudden I sat back in

913
00:40:27.840 --> 00:40:29.679
that first of the day and I two things happened.

914
00:40:29.719 --> 00:40:34.639
I became really curious as to what I could well,

915
00:40:34.639 --> 00:40:37.800
I I was humbled. I felt very humble, this humility

916
00:40:37.840 --> 00:40:39.840
of like I'm not coping. Cool, I've just said it.

917
00:40:39.840 --> 00:40:42.559
I'm not coping, I'm not good. I felt humble, and

918
00:40:42.599 --> 00:40:44.519
then I felt really curious, like, day, Okay, what do

919
00:40:44.599 --> 00:40:47.639
I need to do? What do I And that's that

920
00:40:47.760 --> 00:40:52.199
set me on this path to seeing a psychologist for

921
00:40:52.199 --> 00:40:53.440
the first time in my life, even though I've been

922
00:40:53.440 --> 00:40:56.159
telling everyone for the last ten years, see A, psychologists

923
00:40:56.159 --> 00:40:57.840
are the best things in the world, see A psycholoists

924
00:40:57.840 --> 00:40:58.960
are the best things in the world. But people go

925
00:40:59.000 --> 00:41:01.159
at you. I'm like, yeah, I will get around to it, definitely.

926
00:41:01.840 --> 00:41:04.800
But I started seeing and it was just so life

927
00:41:04.840 --> 00:41:07.559
changing and I just and every session I had with there,

928
00:41:07.679 --> 00:41:09.440
it was like the same things she kept saying to me.

929
00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:11.480
You need to let go of something. You need to

930
00:41:11.559 --> 00:41:13.320
let go of this. And that's why the next book

931
00:41:13.400 --> 00:41:16.599
was called let Go, because every session was like, you

932
00:41:16.639 --> 00:41:18.760
need to let go of your expectation to always feel happy,

933
00:41:18.800 --> 00:41:20.320
You need to let go of your ego that you

934
00:41:20.360 --> 00:41:21.679
are going to have the answers all the time. You

935
00:41:21.679 --> 00:41:24.559
need to let go of Yeah. So every time it's

936
00:41:24.599 --> 00:41:26.840
just just like it's perfection. You want to be perfect.

937
00:41:26.840 --> 00:41:28.480
You want to do perfect talks all the time. You know,

938
00:41:28.559 --> 00:41:32.480
when people criticize you, that's okay, Like let go of that,

939
00:41:32.480 --> 00:41:34.440
that's totally fine. I'm like, no, David, I'm trying my

940
00:41:34.440 --> 00:41:36.039
hardest and it comes from a good place. Why people

941
00:41:36.079 --> 00:41:38.320
criticize me, and that's because you want to be perfect.

942
00:41:38.360 --> 00:41:40.800
Just let go of that. And and that's that's how

943
00:41:41.920 --> 00:41:43.920
there's an amazing revelation for me. And it wasn't for

944
00:41:43.920 --> 00:41:46.519
the pandemic, I wouldn't have I wouldn't have had Penguin

945
00:41:46.559 --> 00:41:47.840
s anything. When's the next book was? I was like,

946
00:41:47.840 --> 00:41:50.000
I don't have another book. I've written everything. Gratitude, empty, mindfuls.

947
00:41:50.039 --> 00:41:52.000
That's all I've got for it. But it was because

948
00:41:52.039 --> 00:41:53.679
of my struggles that the second book come about.

949
00:41:53.719 --> 00:41:57.880
I guess I'm assuming though, that the practice that you

950
00:41:57.920 --> 00:41:59.800
already had, like the gratitude and the empathy in the

951
00:41:59.840 --> 00:42:03.360
mind of mindfulness in particular, must have really put you

952
00:42:03.400 --> 00:42:06.320
in a good place so that when you when that

953
00:42:06.719 --> 00:42:10.239
crunch point came, like you said, I was able to

954
00:42:10.280 --> 00:42:13.440
stop and stand back and get a bit curious about that,

955
00:42:13.639 --> 00:42:16.760
like instead of just plowing on through, which somebody else

956
00:42:17.239 --> 00:42:22.079
may do, who doesn't have that foundation of mindfulness and

957
00:42:22.559 --> 00:42:24.000
I guess just that self awareness.

958
00:42:24.239 --> 00:42:26.320
Yeah, it's a funny. It's funny you say that because

959
00:42:26.360 --> 00:42:28.719
I had someone say to me an interview once, so

960
00:42:28.960 --> 00:42:32.039
gratitude empty and mauflus didn't work then, because you struggled,

961
00:42:32.239 --> 00:42:34.000
and I was like, I didn't really have an answer

962
00:42:34.039 --> 00:42:37.280
to that, because I thought I was, I was, I was.

963
00:42:37.679 --> 00:42:40.400
I was quite taken off guard by that comment and

964
00:42:40.440 --> 00:42:42.280
I didn't see it coming. And also I don't I'm

965
00:42:42.320 --> 00:42:44.079
not a good arguer, so I just went to water

966
00:42:44.119 --> 00:42:47.079
a bit. But that's what you're right, Like, I think

967
00:42:47.199 --> 00:42:48.800
it put me in a position to be strong enough

968
00:42:48.800 --> 00:42:50.320
to go okay coping.

969
00:42:50.559 --> 00:42:52.760
That's what resilience is, right, Yeah, it is.

970
00:42:52.880 --> 00:42:54.519
Yeah, yeah, to reach out, like it's one of the

971
00:42:54.559 --> 00:42:56.599
key aspects resilience of the ability to reach out. And

972
00:42:56.599 --> 00:42:59.599
I absolutely reached out. And I think you're right. I

973
00:42:59.639 --> 00:43:01.400
looked at person up and I'll say, hey, I just

974
00:43:01.440 --> 00:43:07.480
spoke to a psychologist. That's a lovely observation. Yeah, yeah,

975
00:43:07.880 --> 00:43:08.360
you're wrong.

976
00:43:10.480 --> 00:43:14.519
As somebody who was very much working in the well

977
00:43:14.559 --> 00:43:19.159
being space, how you said it was life changing? What

978
00:43:19.320 --> 00:43:22.599
was it about seeing a psychologist for you that really

979
00:43:22.639 --> 00:43:25.280
shifted things for you, because I think there's a lot

980
00:43:25.280 --> 00:43:28.039
of people who are still sort of I say, we

981
00:43:28.119 --> 00:43:30.400
all sort of know in theory you should talk to

982
00:43:30.440 --> 00:43:34.760
a psychologist. It's a big step, and there's a lot

983
00:43:34.760 --> 00:43:37.320
of people who are like, what, I don't know? Am

984
00:43:37.320 --> 00:43:39.679
I am I broken enough?

985
00:43:39.719 --> 00:43:39.800
Like?

986
00:43:39.880 --> 00:43:42.800
Am I do I really? Is that really what I need?

987
00:43:43.119 --> 00:43:44.960
So for you, Hugh, what was your experience of seeing

988
00:43:44.960 --> 00:43:46.280
a psychologist and how did that change things?

989
00:43:46.559 --> 00:43:50.599
I wish I'd go into a psychologist when for my

990
00:43:50.800 --> 00:43:55.360
entire life for forty years I turned for twenty twenty.

991
00:43:55.599 --> 00:43:59.800
For forty years, I can genuinely say I've been I've

992
00:43:59.800 --> 00:44:02.360
been less mental health like so blessed to be a

993
00:44:02.400 --> 00:44:05.440
happy ninety times sent the time I'm really happy and

994
00:44:05.480 --> 00:44:08.360
things would I remember I mentioned the breakup with my

995
00:44:08.400 --> 00:44:10.880
ex that I struggled for a year, maybe more with that,

996
00:44:11.119 --> 00:44:13.559
but I always had this default setting event like I

997
00:44:13.559 --> 00:44:16.480
was pretty happy, but and when my sister was really

998
00:44:16.519 --> 00:44:19.679
sick unhealthily, I kind of ignored it a bit, and

999
00:44:19.719 --> 00:44:21.079
then but I had moments where I go up pretty

1000
00:44:21.079 --> 00:44:23.639
down but overall really really happy. I wish I'd seen

1001
00:44:23.639 --> 00:44:27.119
a psychologist then, because a lot of stuff we talked

1002
00:44:27.119 --> 00:44:28.559
about had nothing to do with the fact that I

1003
00:44:28.559 --> 00:44:31.559
was struggling in twenty twenty with those lockdowns and everything.

1004
00:44:31.639 --> 00:44:35.480
It really wasn't. It was things like, oh my god,

1005
00:44:36.239 --> 00:44:39.119
this moment blew my mind. I told her a story

1006
00:44:39.119 --> 00:44:43.000
about how I really wanted to have kids because I

1007
00:44:43.039 --> 00:44:47.000
wanted my dad to meet my kids, because I remember

1008
00:44:47.000 --> 00:44:48.920
I was playing cricket once and Dad came to watch

1009
00:44:49.199 --> 00:44:52.320
and I didn't recognize him. I remember this old guy

1010
00:44:52.360 --> 00:44:55.519
walking around the side of the ground and then I went,

1011
00:44:55.559 --> 00:44:58.039
oh Jesus, that's Dad. My god, he looks old. And

1012
00:44:58.079 --> 00:44:59.800
I was thirty five at the time, didn't have kids.

1013
00:45:00.679 --> 00:45:02.760
And I went home to Penny and I said, I know,

1014
00:45:02.800 --> 00:45:04.400
we were planners to go to New York for a

1015
00:45:04.440 --> 00:45:08.159
couple of years and work overseas. I really want to

1016
00:45:08.199 --> 00:45:10.559
have kids. And I said it's because I really really

1017
00:45:10.559 --> 00:45:12.400
want Dad to meet his grandkids. I don't want to

1018
00:45:12.400 --> 00:45:13.599
miss out. I just felt like he looked a bit

1019
00:45:13.599 --> 00:45:15.880
old today. And she said, that's a really good reason.

1020
00:45:15.960 --> 00:45:18.559
And I was telling my psychologist dad. My love for

1021
00:45:18.639 --> 00:45:20.880
Dad kept coming up a lot in the chat. Mum

1022
00:45:20.920 --> 00:45:24.039
and Dad obviously, but this love I have for Dad,

1023
00:45:24.559 --> 00:45:26.280
because she kept asking the kind of person I want

1024
00:45:26.280 --> 00:45:27.440
to be. She was like, well, how do you want

1025
00:45:27.440 --> 00:45:29.000
people to describe you? You know, how do you want

1026
00:45:29.000 --> 00:45:32.039
to be described by your kids, by your because I

1027
00:45:32.119 --> 00:45:33.639
was having trouble with the fact I was getting angry

1028
00:45:33.639 --> 00:45:35.199
at my kids and I was never getting angry every

1029
00:45:35.239 --> 00:45:36.760
and she said, well, how do you want to be described?

1030
00:45:37.280 --> 00:45:40.320
And I said, oh, kind and humble, And we're talking

1031
00:45:40.320 --> 00:45:41.920
about that and she said, if you realize, She said,

1032
00:45:41.920 --> 00:45:43.440
how did you describe your dad in a couple of words?

1033
00:45:43.440 --> 00:45:45.519
And I said, I'm kind and humble and she said, well,

1034
00:45:45.840 --> 00:45:47.519
it's not interesting anyway. So we got to the topic

1035
00:45:47.559 --> 00:45:50.519
of dad and I told her that story, and then

1036
00:45:50.719 --> 00:45:53.119
we talked more and more about Dad, and she said,

1037
00:45:53.159 --> 00:45:54.639
I want to know more about your dad's stories. I

1038
00:45:54.719 --> 00:45:56.400
told her that dad was an immigrant. He came to

1039
00:45:56.400 --> 00:45:59.159
Australia as a twelve year old Strilankan boy who and

1040
00:45:59.480 --> 00:46:03.400
he was objective a lot of racial qualification and awful stuff.

1041
00:46:03.719 --> 00:46:06.079
But he worked so hard, you know, he worked so

1042
00:46:06.079 --> 00:46:08.599
so hard when through school because that's his parents came

1043
00:46:08.639 --> 00:46:11.199
to stry to give him opportunity that they never had.

1044
00:46:11.400 --> 00:46:16.119
And you work so hard through school. Union became a dentist,

1045
00:46:16.199 --> 00:46:19.119
and worked. He missed one day from you became a

1046
00:46:19.199 --> 00:46:21.079
dentist when his twenty four, I think it was, and

1047
00:46:21.119 --> 00:46:23.360
he missed one day sick for his retired when he

1048
00:46:23.400 --> 00:46:25.880
was sixty five. And everything he ever did it was

1049
00:46:26.079 --> 00:46:27.800
I realized now it was for us. He just wanted

1050
00:46:27.840 --> 00:46:30.679
to give us, the kids the best opportunity ever to

1051
00:46:30.800 --> 00:46:32.519
have the opportunities that he never had as a kid.

1052
00:46:32.519 --> 00:46:35.800
And anyway, we talked more and more about dad, and

1053
00:46:36.159 --> 00:46:38.559
one day Anita mus Collog just finished the session and

1054
00:46:38.599 --> 00:46:41.440
she said to me, you know, I think the reason

1055
00:46:41.440 --> 00:46:43.840
you wanted to have kids was not so that. Oh

1056
00:46:44.199 --> 00:46:46.360
I cannot say this to that crying. Even I've said

1057
00:46:46.400 --> 00:46:48.280
told the story, I cannot say that crying. She said,

1058
00:46:49.039 --> 00:46:50.800
the reason you wanted to have kids was not so

1059
00:46:50.920 --> 00:46:54.440
that your dad can meet your grandkids. It was so

1060
00:46:55.719 --> 00:46:58.760
it was so your kids could meet your dad. It's

1061
00:46:58.840 --> 00:47:02.360
you wanted them to be connected to this humble, hard

1062
00:47:02.400 --> 00:47:05.519
working because of my dad. Right, my dad has placed

1063
00:47:05.519 --> 00:47:08.079
me smack bang in the center of privilege and entitlement.

1064
00:47:08.159 --> 00:47:12.719
And I'm very aware of that. I'm a white, forty

1065
00:47:12.800 --> 00:47:16.079
year old man, who financially stable, who lives in a

1066
00:47:16.159 --> 00:47:20.119
nice suburb with you know, I've got everything and it's

1067
00:47:20.159 --> 00:47:23.679
because of my dad and mum's hard work. And I'm

1068
00:47:23.719 --> 00:47:26.239
worried that my kids are not going to you know,

1069
00:47:26.280 --> 00:47:28.159
they'll probably go to really good schools and no, probably

1070
00:47:28.199 --> 00:47:31.440
they'll have all these and I've always been stressed. I'm going, oh,

1071
00:47:31.519 --> 00:47:32.960
they're going to be spoiled. So they're going to be

1072
00:47:33.159 --> 00:47:35.880
They've got everything they ever needed. And my psychologists made

1073
00:47:35.920 --> 00:47:39.000
me realize the reason I wanted to have kids while

1074
00:47:39.039 --> 00:47:41.639
dad was still alive was so that my kids could

1075
00:47:41.639 --> 00:47:44.880
meet my dad, not the other way around. Stuff like that.

1076
00:47:44.920 --> 00:47:46.599
You know, I would never have worked it out. I

1077
00:47:46.599 --> 00:47:48.360
would ne woud have worked it out in a million years.

1078
00:47:48.400 --> 00:47:50.960
And when she said that to me, we was on

1079
00:47:51.039 --> 00:47:55.599
zoom because like down, I just sat there. I'm not

1080
00:47:55.679 --> 00:47:58.000
exaggerating or forty five minutes. I couldn't move. I was

1081
00:47:58.039 --> 00:48:00.639
just staring at the screen and going, oh, my god,

1082
00:48:00.880 --> 00:48:05.599
that is such a life changing realization. I it was,

1083
00:48:05.840 --> 00:48:07.920
but we had suffer like that. Every single session she'd

1084
00:48:07.920 --> 00:48:10.039
point stuff out to me. I was bringing up stories

1085
00:48:10.039 --> 00:48:13.000
that I'm told from my childhood from and they weren't

1086
00:48:13.000 --> 00:48:16.000
deeply traumatic stories. It wasn't about trauma. It wasn't, and

1087
00:48:16.039 --> 00:48:17.840
she would just connect the dots on all these things

1088
00:48:17.880 --> 00:48:19.639
in my life that I didn't realize and every time

1089
00:48:19.760 --> 00:48:21.239
she would do that, it would just the world would

1090
00:48:21.280 --> 00:48:24.400
make my life would make a lot more sense. So, yeah,

1091
00:48:24.400 --> 00:48:25.440
that's a very long answer.

1092
00:48:25.480 --> 00:48:29.559
Sorry, No, it's perfect, and I still encourage anybody to

1093
00:48:29.559 --> 00:48:34.280
go see a psychology. Yes, yes, Unfortunately, again it is

1094
00:48:34.599 --> 00:48:38.519
it's not it's not the cheapest, and it.

1095
00:48:38.639 --> 00:48:40.519
Is a long way and we're a long way to

1096
00:48:40.519 --> 00:48:40.920
go in.

1097
00:48:40.800 --> 00:48:44.719
This country to make mental health care, you know, more accessible,

1098
00:48:44.760 --> 00:48:46.840
so that we don't have a whole other conversation about that.

1099
00:48:46.960 --> 00:48:50.920
But in the meantime, we've got the gratitude, mindfulness, and empathy.

1100
00:48:50.719 --> 00:48:52.960
Which all stand you in good stead totally.

1101
00:48:53.199 --> 00:48:55.800
But in the so the second book came out, Let Go,

1102
00:48:56.079 --> 00:48:58.559
And as you said, it's a it's all the things

1103
00:48:58.559 --> 00:49:01.559
that you learned that you needed to let go of.

1104
00:49:02.639 --> 00:49:04.159
What were some of the things that you realized that

1105
00:49:04.199 --> 00:49:08.239
you needed to let go of in order to really be,

1106
00:49:08.360 --> 00:49:11.880
you know, the best, happiest version of yourself.

1107
00:49:13.519 --> 00:49:16.079
So there are seven things in the book. There are seven.

1108
00:49:16.800 --> 00:49:19.840
There are seven.

1109
00:49:19.960 --> 00:49:21.400
There are seven things in the book that I write

1110
00:49:21.400 --> 00:49:22.639
about that I have to let go, But there's only

1111
00:49:22.719 --> 00:49:27.199
three on the front cover because the publishers and I said,

1112
00:49:27.199 --> 00:49:30.440
how are we going to choose? Out the time? Shame, expectation,

1113
00:49:30.880 --> 00:49:33.239
and social media were the three things I most deshmind

1114
00:49:33.239 --> 00:49:35.760
had to let go of my addiction to social media.

1115
00:49:36.239 --> 00:49:37.840
Now they've kind of shifted a bit, but on the

1116
00:49:37.840 --> 00:49:39.760
front I'll deal with those on the front cover of Shame.

1117
00:49:41.039 --> 00:49:42.800
And you would know much more about this than me.

1118
00:49:42.920 --> 00:49:45.719
But my experience is that we all experienced shame about

1119
00:49:45.760 --> 00:49:47.719
something in our life. And shame basically is the thing.

1120
00:49:48.199 --> 00:49:50.079
It's our not enough story. You know, I'm not enough

1121
00:49:50.119 --> 00:49:52.559
with this and so and but we don't tell anyone.

1122
00:49:52.599 --> 00:49:55.039
We don't talk about it because we're worried. I mean,

1123
00:49:55.079 --> 00:49:56.639
our biggest fear is we're not going to be connected

1124
00:49:56.639 --> 00:49:59.679
to We want to belong somewhere, and our shame is

1125
00:49:59.719 --> 00:50:01.320
that there's a part of us that we feel like

1126
00:50:01.320 --> 00:50:03.400
if people know more about we will not be we

1127
00:50:03.440 --> 00:50:06.320
won't belong. And for me, it was just like I

1128
00:50:06.440 --> 00:50:09.360
just I just had this shame of like I'm not

1129
00:50:09.400 --> 00:50:11.280
good looking enough. I always felt that because I had

1130
00:50:11.320 --> 00:50:13.239
a few experiences as a kid where I was told

1131
00:50:13.880 --> 00:50:16.000
I was really funnily and I was looking back in photos.

1132
00:50:16.000 --> 00:50:17.679
I was a very strange looking kid. But I remember

1133
00:50:17.960 --> 00:50:19.440
turning up to I was nine years old and I

1134
00:50:19.480 --> 00:50:21.920
turned up to basketball this new club. It was my

1135
00:50:21.960 --> 00:50:24.559
first time ever playing basketball team. I was so excited

1136
00:50:25.119 --> 00:50:26.719
and I got to this training and there's a group

1137
00:50:26.760 --> 00:50:28.239
of kids I didn't know that all been a team

1138
00:50:28.239 --> 00:50:31.239
for a few years. And they pissed themselves laughing at

1139
00:50:31.280 --> 00:50:32.920
what I looked like, and they called me bugs bunny,

1140
00:50:32.960 --> 00:50:35.039
and I said, you've got the biggest teeth, the biggest eyes,

1141
00:50:35.639 --> 00:50:37.360
And every time I went to say something to just

1142
00:50:37.360 --> 00:50:41.039
pissed themselves laughing at me. And I didn't know I

1143
00:50:41.079 --> 00:50:42.679
was funny looking at that point. That's the first time

1144
00:50:42.719 --> 00:50:44.599
I because Mama, and I was like, he's such a

1145
00:50:44.639 --> 00:50:47.159
beautiful boy. And I never knew I was funny looking.

1146
00:50:47.400 --> 00:50:49.440
And I was like, it was such a shock, and

1147
00:50:49.480 --> 00:50:54.280
I was so I went home that night, and knowing

1148
00:50:54.280 --> 00:50:55.800
what I know now, I wish i'd told mom and

1149
00:50:55.880 --> 00:50:58.760
Dad what had happened. They would have found a way

1150
00:50:58.800 --> 00:51:01.199
to make me not feel a shit aimed of it.

1151
00:51:01.360 --> 00:51:03.599
Just like, but everyone looks different, darling. You all look different,

1152
00:51:03.599 --> 00:51:06.599
and like some people think you like we think you're

1153
00:51:06.599 --> 00:51:09.000
really beautiful and those boys don't. But that's okay, Like,

1154
00:51:09.519 --> 00:51:10.840
well whatever, I don't know what they told me. I

1155
00:51:10.880 --> 00:51:12.480
don't know what it was. Mum was a genius at

1156
00:51:12.480 --> 00:51:14.280
this kind of stuff. If she'd known, she would have

1157
00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:17.360
worked me through it to a point where but I went.

1158
00:51:17.440 --> 00:51:19.079
I just went. I spent right in my room for

1159
00:51:19.239 --> 00:51:22.519
hours and didn't tell them. So I told myself a

1160
00:51:22.559 --> 00:51:26.320
story age nine. I wasn't good looking enough, and I

1161
00:51:26.360 --> 00:51:29.079
became really ashamed of that. And I remember being on

1162
00:51:29.119 --> 00:51:32.559
a tram in year nine and point me, you have

1163
00:51:32.679 --> 00:51:34.719
quite insecure about it looks. And I was sitting next

1164
00:51:34.760 --> 00:51:37.000
to there was a group of girls who went to

1165
00:51:37.039 --> 00:51:39.360
a school, a girl or girls school. Actually it was

1166
00:51:39.360 --> 00:51:40.960
the your girls school that I went taught at later

1167
00:51:41.000 --> 00:51:44.119
on in life. Wow, And I realized they were impersonating

1168
00:51:44.159 --> 00:51:46.000
what I look like. They were trying to impersonate my

1169
00:51:46.119 --> 00:51:49.840
face and pissing themselves laughing, and that I was like,

1170
00:51:49.880 --> 00:51:52.159
oh God, there we go. I'm not a good looking person.

1171
00:51:52.239 --> 00:51:54.920
So I've always had this. I remember my first ever

1172
00:51:55.039 --> 00:51:57.039
date I went on with Penny, my wife, and she's

1173
00:51:57.079 --> 00:51:59.960
the most I know everyone thinks is about their partner,

1174
00:52:00.039 --> 00:52:03.840
but she's she's just stunning. And I remember sitting there going,

1175
00:52:04.840 --> 00:52:06.639
I'm going to be pretty funny here because I am

1176
00:52:06.679 --> 00:52:08.840
not good looking enough. I am not good looking enough

1177
00:52:08.840 --> 00:52:12.679
for petty this person. So I was like, like, be funny,

1178
00:52:12.679 --> 00:52:14.239
be funny, but you've got to be funny, You've got

1179
00:52:14.280 --> 00:52:16.119
to be extremely enosty because you are not good looking enough.

1180
00:52:16.159 --> 00:52:20.679
So it wasn't until seeing my psychologists that I sort

1181
00:52:20.679 --> 00:52:22.800
of talked all that through and then and then I

1182
00:52:22.880 --> 00:52:25.840
kind of let that go, you know, like and LinkedIn

1183
00:52:25.880 --> 00:52:28.199
to my this perfection thing. I've got this like I

1184
00:52:28.239 --> 00:52:30.719
just want to be perfect with everything I do and

1185
00:52:30.760 --> 00:52:32.920
obviously with what I look like as well. I'm letting

1186
00:52:32.960 --> 00:52:34.760
both those go. I was like, that's like, we all

1187
00:52:34.760 --> 00:52:37.159
look different. I don't don't really care, like I just

1188
00:52:37.239 --> 00:52:39.079
and I was able to let go of that shame

1189
00:52:39.119 --> 00:52:42.320
of what look like. But we all have. For some people,

1190
00:52:42.360 --> 00:52:44.920
that might be I'm not smart enough, I'm not successful enough,

1191
00:52:44.920 --> 00:52:47.719
I'm not rich enough. But the way we deal with

1192
00:52:47.760 --> 00:52:51.159
that is we share our shame story, because shame cannot

1193
00:52:51.159 --> 00:52:54.639
survive empathy. When you share your story, someone will give.

1194
00:52:54.719 --> 00:52:56.880
With someone you trust or a psychologist, ideal, but if

1195
00:52:56.880 --> 00:52:58.800
you can find someone you love and someone you trust

1196
00:52:59.239 --> 00:53:03.440
they will break down that shot. But it's we build

1197
00:53:03.440 --> 00:53:05.599
the story up so much more in our head than

1198
00:53:05.639 --> 00:53:08.320
it really really needs to be. So that was a

1199
00:53:08.320 --> 00:53:08.920
big one for me.

1200
00:53:09.320 --> 00:53:13.280
Oh and so again just so relatable. And I think

1201
00:53:13.519 --> 00:53:15.679
you know when you say, oh, I've got to be

1202
00:53:16.159 --> 00:53:18.119
you know, really on a game and be as funny

1203
00:53:18.119 --> 00:53:20.440
as possible, because I've got to make up for this

1204
00:53:20.519 --> 00:53:23.239
other deficit that I have. Like everybody is walking around

1205
00:53:23.320 --> 00:53:25.960
doing that, like everybody has got something, and I think

1206
00:53:27.079 --> 00:53:28.239
most people.

1207
00:53:28.320 --> 00:53:28.719
I had a.

1208
00:53:28.639 --> 00:53:31.400
Conversation a while ago with doctor Nicole Lapera. She's the

1209
00:53:31.400 --> 00:53:34.599
holistic psychologist on you know, Instagram. She got five million

1210
00:53:34.599 --> 00:53:37.039
followers or something. Oh wow, yeah, Like she's got this

1211
00:53:37.119 --> 00:53:40.880
amazing following. Attracts a lot of critics from within the

1212
00:53:40.880 --> 00:53:41.679
profession too, by.

1213
00:53:41.559 --> 00:53:43.000
The way, I'm sure she would if she's got a

1214
00:53:43.000 --> 00:53:43.480
big following.

1215
00:53:44.920 --> 00:53:48.760
How all she talks about self healing and overcoming your

1216
00:53:48.800 --> 00:53:50.360
trauma and all of this sort of stuff.

1217
00:53:50.360 --> 00:53:51.719
But anyway, I had this.

1218
00:53:51.840 --> 00:53:54.280
I remember saying to her that I had been reflecting

1219
00:53:54.440 --> 00:53:57.440
that when we talk about being authentic, like how hard

1220
00:53:57.480 --> 00:54:00.679
it actually is because most of us unknowingly walking around

1221
00:54:00.960 --> 00:54:05.480
just this walking bundle of coping strategies, you know, like

1222
00:54:05.519 --> 00:54:08.000
we're all going through life with our masks and our

1223
00:54:08.079 --> 00:54:12.079
performance and our and it's a process unraveling.

1224
00:54:12.119 --> 00:54:12.679
All of that.

1225
00:54:12.760 --> 00:54:15.320
Like it's just this layers and layers of conditioning and

1226
00:54:15.599 --> 00:54:18.079
things like that. Hugh, Like alone, when I was nine,

1227
00:54:18.119 --> 00:54:19.639
I wasn't good looking at us there therefore I had

1228
00:54:19.679 --> 00:54:22.519
to be, you know, the funny guy. Or I read

1229
00:54:22.519 --> 00:54:25.000
in your book too, you know, like my sisters was

1230
00:54:25.039 --> 00:54:26.760
going through the stuff my parents really says, I had

1231
00:54:26.760 --> 00:54:29.480
to make everybody happy. Like we adopt all of these

1232
00:54:29.639 --> 00:54:35.199
roles unconsciously, like not knowingly, and then we live our

1233
00:54:35.239 --> 00:54:41.440
lives being this person, which becomes so habitual and so

1234
00:54:41.599 --> 00:54:45.079
programmed that this is just who I am, when an

1235
00:54:45.119 --> 00:54:47.599
actual fact, all it is is just a thing I've

1236
00:54:47.639 --> 00:54:50.199
been doing for so long that I don't know any different.

1237
00:54:50.639 --> 00:54:52.239
It's really just a habit.

1238
00:54:52.440 --> 00:54:55.840
So yeah, I just but to come back to why

1239
00:54:55.840 --> 00:54:58.639
we're talking about this, which is your excellent question. A

1240
00:54:58.679 --> 00:55:01.599
psychologist breaks this down, and I remember my psychologists saying

1241
00:55:01.599 --> 00:55:04.280
to me, and also a mentor of mine, a guy

1242
00:55:04.320 --> 00:55:06.159
called Ben Crow, who a lot of people heard of

1243
00:55:06.239 --> 00:55:09.519
as Ashbarti's mindset coach. Both of them have said to me,

1244
00:55:10.400 --> 00:55:14.519
you are worthy of love as you are. You don't

1245
00:55:14.559 --> 00:55:16.079
need to look at the different You don't need to

1246
00:55:16.119 --> 00:55:19.119
be You are worthy as you are. And I wish

1247
00:55:19.360 --> 00:55:22.920
so much. I wonder if it were resonated, but I

1248
00:55:22.960 --> 00:55:25.320
wish so much. And that's what we're starting to build

1249
00:55:25.320 --> 00:55:28.000
into our curriculum now, this message, because I think kids

1250
00:55:28.039 --> 00:55:30.280
need to hear at a young age, Hey, as you

1251
00:55:30.360 --> 00:55:33.000
are right now, without looking a certain way, without having

1252
00:55:33.039 --> 00:55:36.480
a certain amount of social media followers, you are worthy

1253
00:55:36.679 --> 00:55:39.280
of love and belonging. Don't need to don't need to

1254
00:55:39.320 --> 00:55:44.360
do anything else. We Hamish Blake, who everyone knows, has

1255
00:55:44.400 --> 00:55:46.400
this amazing thing he says to his kids and he

1256
00:55:46.440 --> 00:55:48.519
puts him to bed. And I'm charaphrasic, so I might

1257
00:55:48.559 --> 00:55:51.039
get it wrong, but he says, well to his I

1258
00:55:51.039 --> 00:55:52.599
think both his kids, but he was telling me. He

1259
00:55:52.599 --> 00:55:57.679
says to his daughter, I love you for who you

1260
00:55:57.719 --> 00:56:00.000
are exactly as you. Don't need to be anything else.

1261
00:56:00.079 --> 00:56:02.519
I love you for who you are right now. He

1262
00:56:02.559 --> 00:56:04.159
says it to him every single before they go to bed.

1263
00:56:05.480 --> 00:56:07.719
And I tried to copy that unashatment. That was like,

1264
00:56:07.920 --> 00:56:11.159
I'm taking that. That's amazing. Every time I try. My

1265
00:56:11.199 --> 00:56:12.880
son goes, you tell me this every night, I know,

1266
00:56:13.760 --> 00:56:16.239
and so just hasn't quite worked. But it's a lovely

1267
00:56:16.280 --> 00:56:18.519
message for people to hear at a young age. It is.

1268
00:56:18.559 --> 00:56:21.800
And I recently had a I don't do very much

1269
00:56:21.880 --> 00:56:23.840
clinical therapy work at the moment. I have got a

1270
00:56:23.880 --> 00:56:25.480
couple of one on one clients since we can do

1271
00:56:25.559 --> 00:56:27.960
telehealth and zoom, I've got a couple of clients. But

1272
00:56:28.440 --> 00:56:30.639
I had the conversation with her, like I was talking

1273
00:56:30.679 --> 00:56:32.480
to her about she was having difficulty with her kids

1274
00:56:32.559 --> 00:56:37.159
and how she's trying to manage their behavior and if

1275
00:56:37.159 --> 00:56:39.840
they want them to do better and be less of

1276
00:56:39.840 --> 00:56:42.039
this and less of that. And so we had this

1277
00:56:42.079 --> 00:56:46.880
whole conversation about when do you praise them for something

1278
00:56:46.960 --> 00:56:50.960
other than their behavior, Like how when do you share

1279
00:56:51.039 --> 00:56:53.559
with them that you just enjoy their company, like you

1280
00:56:53.760 --> 00:56:56.440
just And it was a bit of a revelation because

1281
00:56:56.440 --> 00:56:58.519
I think his parents, we're just so like this, do

1282
00:56:58.800 --> 00:57:01.239
more of this, less of that, don't do that. You know,

1283
00:57:01.280 --> 00:57:04.239
you're so good at that, you're clever at this, But

1284
00:57:04.400 --> 00:57:06.960
when do you just actually share with your kids? And

1285
00:57:07.000 --> 00:57:09.440
this is a lesson for me as well, just delight

1286
00:57:09.639 --> 00:57:13.679
in there just who they are, Like I just I

1287
00:57:13.800 --> 00:57:18.559
just love who you are, regardless of anything that you

1288
00:57:18.599 --> 00:57:20.199
could do or not do, what you did wrong or

1289
00:57:20.199 --> 00:57:20.800
what you did right.

1290
00:57:21.119 --> 00:57:22.519
I'm getting a lot out of this chat. I'm just

1291
00:57:22.519 --> 00:57:26.159
listening to. I'm good with my daughter. My son's a

1292
00:57:26.239 --> 00:57:28.000
bit can be a bit all over shop that he

1293
00:57:28.000 --> 00:57:30.039
doesn't like hearing a lot of that stuff. But my daughter,

1294
00:57:30.559 --> 00:57:33.480
who's too. I've turned her into this absolute love monster.

1295
00:57:33.519 --> 00:57:35.480
Like I'm always telling I love her just NonStop. And

1296
00:57:35.599 --> 00:57:38.559
like we had a nanny, potential nanny come over or

1297
00:57:38.599 --> 00:57:40.800
she's now our nanny. She come over and met the

1298
00:57:40.880 --> 00:57:43.880
kids for the second time. She's sitting there and Helsey goes,

1299
00:57:44.119 --> 00:57:47.320
I love you. She's really turned around.

1300
00:57:47.360 --> 00:57:51.920
Really at the moment they do it that age walk

1301
00:57:52.000 --> 00:57:59.960
up to strangers, expectation, perfection, addiction to social media. I've

1302
00:58:00.000 --> 00:58:01.960
i feel like, is there any final thoughts you want

1303
00:58:02.000 --> 00:58:04.320
to share? Because I've just really noticed the time on

1304
00:58:04.360 --> 00:58:04.960
this podcast.

1305
00:58:05.400 --> 00:58:08.440
Yeah, I know. Do you know what? It's my favorite place.

1306
00:58:09.360 --> 00:58:11.159
The most important message I have is that we're all

1307
00:58:11.159 --> 00:58:13.280
worthy of love as we are. So I think it's

1308
00:58:13.280 --> 00:58:16.679
a really great place to summarize everything because that's what

1309
00:58:16.679 --> 00:58:20.079
it's taken me as someone who has been fascinated since

1310
00:58:20.079 --> 00:58:22.119
the age of twenty in What Is It Makes Us Happy,

1311
00:58:22.159 --> 00:58:25.760
has read everything, has watched everything on the topic, has

1312
00:58:26.079 --> 00:58:30.079
spent the last twelve years in the industry. The most

1313
00:58:30.079 --> 00:58:32.840
important message is that we are worthy as we are

1314
00:58:33.079 --> 00:58:37.840
of love, of affection, of belonging. We're all worthy as

1315
00:58:37.840 --> 00:58:40.440
we are. We don't need to be doing as anything

1316
00:58:40.440 --> 00:58:44.360
else to and we're all on this desperate like hamster

1317
00:58:44.360 --> 00:58:47.320
wheel or treadmill or just to try and prove that

1318
00:58:47.360 --> 00:58:51.440
we're worthy. Yeah we are, Yeah we are.

1319
00:58:51.679 --> 00:58:53.599
I'm on this exact same page.

1320
00:58:53.639 --> 00:58:55.800
So that is a perfect place to wrap this up,

1321
00:58:56.119 --> 00:58:59.480
and you will put the links to both the books

1322
00:58:59.480 --> 00:59:00.920
in the show notes. I just want to share too

1323
00:59:00.920 --> 00:59:04.800
with listeners that they are both so easy to read.

1324
00:59:04.880 --> 00:59:08.400
Like you said, they're full of just relatable stories, personal stories.

1325
00:59:08.400 --> 00:59:11.280
Thank you for your vulnerability and sharing some deeply personal

1326
00:59:11.320 --> 00:59:14.760
stories in the book. It is what we are desperately

1327
00:59:14.840 --> 00:59:17.800
hungry for, and I think that that connection that we

1328
00:59:17.880 --> 00:59:22.159
get from other people's, you know, sharing their struggles. So

1329
00:59:22.239 --> 00:59:23.840
thank you, Hugh, and thank you for your time today.

1330
00:59:24.159 --> 00:59:26.440
It's such a pleasure. As I said, I'm a very

1331
00:59:26.440 --> 00:59:30.239
big fan of What you're doing. And it was funny

1332
00:59:30.280 --> 00:59:32.400
when the invitation first came through to a bit of podcast.

1333
00:59:32.960 --> 00:59:34.679
It's funny how the world works. I just listened to

1334
00:59:34.719 --> 00:59:36.480
one of your episodes. I was like, this is really

1335
00:59:36.519 --> 00:59:38.159
good stuff. I need to go through the back catalog

1336
00:59:38.199 --> 00:59:39.480
and I was like, oh, it's a big back catalog

1337
00:59:39.519 --> 00:59:41.400
as well. I was a lot here. So it was

1338
00:59:41.400 --> 00:59:44.320
such a so excited you to join you. So thanks

1339
00:59:44.360 --> 00:59:47.400
for having me, and I hope I haven't read too much.

1340
00:59:47.760 --> 00:59:55.199
No, no, no, I'm amazing, amazing, Thank you, Pleasure Hughes

1341
00:59:55.320 --> 00:59:58.239
two books are called The Resilience Project and his most

1342
00:59:58.280 --> 00:59:59.360
recent is called Let Go.

1343
00:59:59.519 --> 01:00:01.559
You can find them both at all bookstores.

1344
01:00:01.920 --> 01:00:04.199
Also, you can find my three Crappy to Happy books

1345
01:00:04.199 --> 01:00:07.119
in bookstores or listen on Audible for free. If you

1346
01:00:07.159 --> 01:00:10.719
haven't already checked out my new podcast, The Confidence Coach,

1347
01:00:11.039 --> 01:00:13.679
you can listen to that on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

1348
01:00:14.039 --> 01:00:15.599
Please check it out and let me know what you think.

1349
01:00:15.800 --> 01:00:17.480
And I cannot wait to catch you on the next

1350
01:00:17.519 --> 01:00:18.800
episode of Crappy to have you

1351
01:00:26.239 --> 01:00:26.719
Listener