Life after a baby

0:02 A listener Production. Tiff and Cass. Here you're listening to Crappy Tore Happy and if you love the episodes, then get in touch, give us a raining, give us a review. We absolutely love hearing from you. We genuinely do. We love your feedback and the show is for you. So tell us what you think. We can't wait to hear from you. Now on with the show. Last episode, we're talking about changing habits and the motivation myth. Today we're going to chat about life after a baby. So much happens, So much has happened since our last season of Crappy to Habit tiv it sure has. You were sitting next to me, very pregnant.

0:45 As pregnant as you get. And now, of course you've had your lovely Arnold. Yes, five months ago, five months exactly five months ago. He's a healthy, bouncing, little gorgeousus boy. And I think this is You've received so much attention in the media, haven't you, since having Arnold and since putting yourself out there your post baby body. And I think that this is a great topic. Yeah, I think it's really important. Look, let's go back to the beginning. I had Arnold after a tough pregnancy, very tough, very tough, good delivery. Baby came along. I was in the hospital and I took a picture of me holding my newborn, my little baby, and I was so proud of him in his little knitted booties that his mother, his grandmother had made for him, and he was so beautiful. I took that picture and put it up on Instagram, expecting all the comments to be about my beautiful son. But all the comments were about my body, and I didn't think about it in the moment. I was wearing a breastfeeding singlet that hugged my stomach, which was very swollen from my uterus was still swollen. It was five days, wasn't five days postpartum, so I still looked very pregnant, probably about seven months pregnant. I had put on thirty kilos. I was sleep deprived, I was tired.

1:58 I had had an episiotomy, all those things that happened to you. My milk hadn't come in, you know, very normal, very normal, hectic time, and your partners there as well, and it was you know, your world is just shattered in such a beautiful way. And when all the comments came out about my body, Oh good on you for showing your tummy being as big as it is and looking pregnant postpartum. I thought, why would I Why wouldn't I look pregnant? This is a postpart and body. I can't bounce back in five days. And I had seen a lot of images in the media of women putting out I think, negligent images of themselves weeks later after having a baby having bounced back. And sure, some women can.

2:45 Some women don't put on a lot of weight during their pregnancy, or their muscles bounce back, or you know, they don't have complicated deliveries or whatever. But I found that quite damaging putting out those images, and so I did put out a real look and post part and body. Didn't think about it, And once those comments came flooding in about how good it was to see a real post part and body, I continued to do it. Yeah, and it really The feedback was phenomenal. That went yeah, gangbusters, didn't it. It wasn't something that I did on purpose, on purpose, or it wasn't something I did for publicity or profile or any of that.

3:29 I just had a baby. I was raw, I was vulnerable, and I put out the image the first image to show my friends and family on social media. I had a son and I wasn't looking glamorous or anything. I think it just highlighted how much we and women just appreciated that because we've all had the same experience of seeing those bounce back photos and those culture but abs and it makes everybody who has a very normal post part and body. Which is all of us, yeah, exactly, and and it like crap. It makes you feel crappy because as a trainer also, I know how to change people's bodies, and I know the time and the effort it takes. So seeing bounce back photos, I know it means hours in the gym, which sacrifices magical time in the newborn bubble with your newborn. It also means creating a deficiency with your calorine take, so you have to cut calories. And I was breastfeeding, so I wanted to protect my milk supply.

4:30 You can't diet, it does affect your milk supply, and so I was very protective over being a good mum, getting to know my baby, protecting my milk supply and my boobs, looking after my own mental health, the mental health of my partner, who was also really wow, this is full on, isn't it, and you're yeah, and you're under sleep deprivation. I went back to work very early on, like maybe ten days later, working from home. There was a lot going on. So I put those photos out because I thought, I'm not going to be able to bounce back here. I'm not going to sacrifice that time. I want to be a good mother. And also I was rebelling against media that had asked me and money involved to post pictures of my body and to bounce back photos and stories before my six week check with the obstetricians. So they were expecting me to hit the gym, to diet, to deprive, to have time away from my baby before it was even safely, before I had the safe go ahead from my obstetrician to even be exercising.

5:41 And we all know women that you can't do anything other than maybe some light walking before six weeks before the doctor checks you out and says okay, and it's very dangerous. And I have seen celebrities exercising before the six week check and I just was so angry about that. So I did nothing, and I just did some light walking with Arnold in fresh air and nature when I could, But I was really determined not to bounce back and to show my body as it is and on my program to effects. I've got many mothers, and I felt a responsibility. Might I say even more now having seen that, because women now feel that they can relate to you where they can't necess couldn't necessarily relate to some other trainers who had those higher expectations and those bounce back bodies.

6:28 It just makes and there are a lot of factors, like you know, And I can't say that I haven't had moments where I've been in the corner crying, hating my body and being frustrated with my body and feeling pressure from the media and being the leader of a fitness community and looking at myself in the mirror and going, you don't look like a fit trainer. You don't know, you don't look like you know what you're doing. And there's been those moments and those dark moments where I've had to search and go, hey, priorities, self care, your son, and yeah, it's frustrating when you don't lose weight fast, or you can't exercise, or the baby stops you from getting out of the house to physically be able to do it. But you have to make do with what you can, and you have to be gentle with yourself and that self compassion and you've got to look at that baby's face and go Feeding you is my priority, and getting to know you and working you out is my priority, and looking after this family because you cannot.

7:28 You cannot, you know, put your body and your six pack before being a good mum and looking after that child, you know, absolutely, So it was it was very tough, tough. It was very tough for me to be back on camera in a way because because I do work in the media and my business is an online platform. So in order to promote that business, I have to exist on it Instagram and Facebook and put images of myself out and videos and content every day. And it was difficult, I have to say, to get back on camera when I didn't feel like myself, you know, big, big and gorge boobs, and I had giggly bits and more stretch marks and cellulite, and I was unfit. I couldn't get through a TIFXO workout, and it was I felt incredibly raw and vulnerable. But I knew that no woman starts out after having a baby completely fit and conditioned and lean.

8:34 You know, it's a journey back. And I wanted to start exercising and I did, showing my members doing the TIFXO workouts in a crop top with you know, a body that was thirty kilos heavier than when I started out with the business. And to be honest, cas, when I had this baby and I felt pregnant, I was very worried about the business. I thought this could be the end of my business. And I wanted children, I really did, and I thought, I've got to have this baby, and I was so excited and I don't want to get teary, but I was nervous that people would like leave and the business would fall apart. And it was so beautiful that women identified with me and that it has helped women. And the best thing I could have done is have that baby.

9:22 Yeah, and you never expected to get as sick as you did, like nobody does. No, no, would never have helt you. And since having Arnold, it seems that it's been one thing after another. Yes, in terms of broken your ankle, I've broken my ankle. I had some issues with my hormones breastfeeding, so I had to do some hormone stuff, and you know, it's never smooth sailing, and you know, and it's difficult to get your fitness back. And I really do empathize with women and how hard it is and how uncomfortable it is to get back and to exercise. But at the end of the day, you have to push through that little bit of discomfort and surround yourself with support and.

10:02 Do it step by step and exactly exactly right, like be realistic with your expectations. And I just want to say that your story, well you your career is as a fitness trainer, and your unique challenges are unique to you as a fitness more pressure. However, it's very reflective of exactly what every other woman goes through whatever career she's in. There's never a good time to have a baby. It's that what will happen to my career if I have to take time off, And it might not be getting back to being fit, but it might be getting back to my job before it or whatever, or just getting back to my jug standard of keeping a house tidy, of being able to have a shower once a day.

10:50 This is all just these are common challenges. Yeah, it is. And you know, if you run your own business, you don't get maternity lead. And I am so passed about my members business aside. I feel I have this community of women who rely on me, and I wanted to put out new workouts for them, and I am so dedicated to helping them. And when I had Arnold, I thought, Okay, we're just all going to do this together. And I reached out to them and said, I'm feeling pretty vulnerable right now. And I realized I couldn't. Early days I had Arnold, and I thought, okay, I've got to, you know, put some images out, content for the business whatever. But I couldn't have a shower, I couldn't put on makeup. I couldn't go to the hairdressers and get my roots done. I was looking horrendous. But I thought, that's normal. That's normal. It is so normal.

11:43 But most of us get to do that. I mean, it's hard enough. The first six weeks after a baby is hell. And I had a reflux baby too, huh, And so it is hard enough, let alone having to then put yourself out publicly publicly give two judgment over one hundred thousand followers on it. Yeah, yeah, and more through Facebook. And yeah, so the pressure of that, I mean, and everyone has an opinion casts and that's something I learned very early on as a mum. Oh yeah, that's a whole that's a whole tech. Everybody was strangers reaching out telling me how to parent and what to do. And you know, especially we're feeding. I'm breastfeeding solely breastfeeding. That's fine, but I you know, people have opinions about how you should feed your baby, and to them, I say, mind your own tits. That's one of my favorite things to say at.

12:36 The moment in an opinion about resps of you know. Being a working mom, or you know, introducing bottles or this or that or whatever you do. Sure, just if you just do what you need to do with your child. You know, your child fed is best. And there's there's all these wars going on with moms, how you raise your children, how you feed do children, routine babies versus non routine babies, bottles versus breast this, I say, just feed your baby. That is the most important thing. Mind your own tip, minord doorn fine. And I was just heard that. Yeah, I was just overwhelmed with people's opinions on how to you know, whether you swaddle your baby or you don't, whether you use a dummy or if you don't. It was so there's so much and I was like, women have to support each other. Mums have to be kind to other moms. Don't judge. That's the the mummy. The mummy was, the mummy was. I'm it's been to find that, yeah, for sure.

13:35 It's been twelve years almost was eleven and a half, yeah, since I had my daughter, and that was certainly rife when I was a new mum. I actually was wondering. I was gonna ask you, do you think that is still as prevalent, because I think I thought we'd come a bit further than that now that and we'd sort of calmed down a bit on that. I think it's worst CASP social media is you know, everyone has an opinion, and they will private message you their opinion and you're like and you read, oh, thanks, no I. Don't know you, but thank you for that, or there's a comment on your Instagram and you know. So there's a lot of opinions and I found that quite difficult.

14:16 But I do think that mums are doing their best, and that you have to just do your best and as long as that baby's fed and loved, that's all that matters. And it has been such an eye opener to just how competitive it can be as well with moms and. Give it harder than you expected. Absolutely, I can't believe how hard those first six weeks were with a baby and sleep deprivation. It was a whole new level. Sure, we've all had rough night sleeping or had to get up early for work. And when I was working in television, I started my day at five am and sometimes we would film till ten at night, and you know, I wouldn't sleep, and they were long days and it was physical work, but nothing compares to that broken sleep and that exhaustion of feeding a baby overnight and the responsibility, responsibility, and with Arnold being a reflux baby where I couldn't lie him on his back, and think of the logistics of that can't go in to pram on his back, he can't be laid down.

15:17 You're holding that baby upright or elevating everything all day. It was so difficult for Ed and I and I just look back at that six weeks and you go into survival mode but I don't know how I did it. It's a blur and it's a blur, and I just want to give every mom out there a huge hug and just say good on you, because it does get easier after that. I found around the twelve week mark, I was like, oh, I sort of know what he wants now. Yeah, but the first six weeks are brutal, so you know you have to reach out for help. Did people tell you that I did have an idea, but not No. You just don't know until you're living it and you're lying in bed and hear the baby and you're just like, I can't get up. I'm so tired, I can't move. But you have to get up, and you know no one can do it but you, and you sometimes have to put on a brave face and then you go out in public and people stick their heads in the pram and they'll tell you what you're doing wrong.

16:17 I remember that, you know, when you're. Like, get your head out on my pram, I'm going to, you know, explode, But you know, it's just it is what it is. So if you're a mum out there, just give yourself a cuddle. And I want people I want women to take that bounce back pressure off, because it felt like there was a clock over my head counting down. Yeah, and it was like how soon can you bounce back? And I was so sick of people asking me when I would lose my baby weight, and I was like, yeah, the important word there is baby. I've had a baby. It's not baby weight. It's like uteruss and it's pregnancy and it's my body has never actually been as strong as it is now for your information, because I went through labor and I did something so athletic and so awesome, and you know, delivering the baby, however you deliver, it is so full on. So I just was so proud of that moment and I was wearing my body like this is my new mum body and it may never return to how it was. It definitely isn't now. And I'm five months postpartum and I'm still seven kilos over my pre baby weight and you know, I hate the term pre baby weight. Yeah, Like, if you're a different person, aren't you casts.

17:34 Even in the t FXO community, You've attracted a lot of new mums because they relate to you, But there is still this I've got this much to go before I get to my pre baby weight. We've had a baby. Your body has completely changed. So where does this even? I mean, I'm no I was the same, because we hold that as well. That's who I was and that's why I should return. That's what I be. But you're a different person. Everything's changed. And look, I look at this now. I've got a broken ankle and I've got a baby and I can't wait bear and it's a nightmare. But I look at my ankle and it's a broken bone, and I'm not expected to bounce back three days later after having such a bad injury. When I gave birth to Arnold, it was pretty like raw and wild and you don't expect it to be so what's the word cast like just oh, you don't expect it to be so gross, but it was for me. And five days later, like breaking my ankle, you're not expected to be back. And you know, have this perfect body and have rehabbed and recovered physically and emotionally from an injury like that, and it's like having surgery or anything. You know, you're not allowed that time after having a baby to recover emotionally, mentally or physically.

18:52 And even having stitches and things like I had. I was like, where is this message in the media about recovery and mental health after having a baby, Because I didn't suffer postnatal depression, but there were times that I went to the doctors for checkups and they did the Edinburgh test Edinburgh. Yes, and on a bad day, sure I was postnatal. But you know it passed because that test can be done any day, can't it. And I had had a few bad days and a few bad scores like any mom out there, So. Can I say something about that the Edinburgh I did a lot of work in post natal impression as a clinical psychologist in when my private practice was thriving. That was more than half of my workload was postnatal depression.

19:41 And that score does change. But a characteristic of a characteristic of post outal depression is that you do have those ups and downs, and that many women think, right, will say I was just having a bad day, right, I don't have postnatal depression. That was just a bad day because he wasn't sleeping. That was just a bad day because my husband was away. And actually that up and down nature, yeah, is what it's rah. I did not know that well, perhaps I did. I don't know, but you know, when the doctor said I'm just going to do a little test on you, I burst out crying, No, I'm not postnatal. I haven't got time to be postnatal. I've got a baby. I had my daughter before I did my clinical psychology master so I know more now than I do then.

20:21 And my GP was strongly suggesting to me that I may have postnatal depression, and I was exactly like you. I was like, no, you're being ridiculous. My husband's away, I'm just having a bad day. And then later I looked back and went. Oh, yeah, actually, and that was pretty bad. Yeah. You look back and you just think that was pretty tough. And it was so tough, like when your partner goes away to work and you're at home for the first. Time with the baby. I remember being terrif. Isn't that hard that first day? Yep? I mean it's all the first I found all the first hard. The first time I took Arnold out in a pram, just getting the pram upstairs, and then I thought I'll go into a cafe and get a coffee.

21:02 I couldn't get the pram through the door because I didn't know you had to reverse the pram through the door, and I just I burst out crying because I couldn't get the pram in the cafe and no one was helping me, and you know, and I just fell apart and I was so embarrassed. And you know, it's all the little first along the way that's so difficult. And I'm even struggling with first now. I haven't taken Arnold out. He's started some solids and i haven't fed him outside the house yet. I'm terrified of the mess and the food and doing that outside of the house, and so being at home logistically for breakfast, lunch, dinner, solids is very hard around my work schedule plus breastfeeds and all of that. So I'm still nervous about feeding in public because of because you know, people come up and say, oh, hi, Ed Tiff, and we love that people come and say hi to us on the streets, but when you've got a boob out, sometimes it's a bit like oh maybe late, like come over and fuy minutes. So you know, there's all these first that are.

22:03 So hard, and leaving the house is challenging for many reasons. I mean, then there's the issue of managing sleep, you know, wanting to be home for their naps, and depending on how well your baby sleeps in the car or the prem or at time, I would never be out of the house. If she did I for a little while, she would only sleep in the prem So I had to even if I didn't want to leave the house, I had to get outside and had to push that pram around and around the block because it was the only way that she would sleep. So we have there's so many restrictions, you know that suddenly you have to face and live with it. Just life changes. Life does, and your life is not your own, and no it's not. And that's why I urge people not to give opinions to new mums or to to pry because you a lot of women would be like, well, just feed Onnie and chuck him in the car and then go do that, And I'd be like, bee's a reflux baby. So I feed Arnie and I have to have him upright for at least twenty twenty five minutes for him otherwise in milk comes up and he doesn't get the nutrition. So you know, it's fine if your baby isn't reflux. But you know, you're dealing with so many things, and I felt like I was always justifying.

23:18 Myself, which you shouldn't have to do it. Yeah, and always Oh it's so hectic. So you've got to take that pressure off. You've got to go slow, and you've got to self accept and find that compassion, don't you, Cass. Yeah, for sure, self compassion. And there's lots of other things that I think mums yeah should do to look after the tips. So we'll come back after the break and we're going to give you some tips on how to take the pressure off and look after yourself mentally, physically, and emotionally. You're listening to Crappy to Happy with Tip and Cass, and we're speaking about life after a baby. Now, I just we just want to say before we continue, this is an exhaustive list of issues that pop up after you have a baby. These are just some of the things that we experienced, and we're going for lease some things that can help, some things that can help you feel go from crappy to feeling a little bit happier. Now, let's talk about the mental side of being a new mum.

24:19 There's a lot going on you're healing after the birth, You've got all these hormones running around in your body, you have a tiny, little, gorgeous baby completely dependent on you, and there's a new life. The old life's gone. So it's a tough time. Cass. Interesting that you say that, because I distinctly remember when my baby was very little, and she was not a sleeper, and she was not a very good feeder, and I had a pretty rough time, and I remember saying to my friend, who by the way, doesn't have children by choice, she has never had children. I remember saying to her, gosh, I just want my old life back. And she looked at me and said, what are you talking about. This is your life. And at the time time was that was devastating to me. It was like this penny dropped and I went, oh my god, I am not getting that life.

25:07 I remember that moment too. And it was the second week we first week in hospital, second week you got home, and the first few nights it was like a novelty getting up to Arnold and our special time, and then all of a sudden, that sleep deprivation kicked in. The adrenaline went from that high of having the baby, and I realized that moms don't get a day off. I can't sleep in tomorrow, that I'm feeling like absolute crap and I've got to do this again tomorrow and the next day and the next day. And it hit me like a ton of bricks. It's devastating. Actually, Yeah, And you know, those first six weeks really are tough, and I think that's commonly known.

25:49 We all know the baby blues kicks in, you know, with the with the milk coming in. That's sort of day four or five, and that's usually fairly temporary and you sort of come back. But then later on, if you're still feeling really down, teary, that's when we start being concerned about postnatal depression. And you know, statistically, one in seven is the number of women who will experience postnatal depression and also post natal anxiety. I think post natal anxiety is actually possibly it's not as widely reported. People don't talk about it, but it's very prevalent. And I think I was probably a little bit more of an anxious mum. But it's really important. As you said, we don't often we wonder what's normal.

26:36 Yeah, I don't know what's normal. I didn't even know, my baby had reflux. I thought it was normal for him to be writhing through the night full of heartburn and he you know, his stomach acid, And I thought that was normal for little babies to not sleep at all. Oh wow, like whereas you hear newborns don't sleep. But I thought but when it wasn't until the midwife said, oh no, he should be sleeping between fear like four hour blocks, And I'm like, what have. A similar experience? And that's the thing, nobody you don't know these things at such an uncertain time, and that is the challenge when we talk about post aatal depression. There are so many factors that contribute to that. And I think there's a bit of a misconception that that it's all about hormones.

27:20 You've got these ragio Yeah, I thought it. Was, And in fact, post antal depression is much like any other kind of depression, and it's caused by a lot of environmental factors, including the fact that you're not getting any sleep, that every deprivation, that every life as you knew it has been completely disrupted, everything that was your normal routine, everything that you came to expect to be, you know, a normal structure and routine has gone. Your time is not your own anymore. The loss of identity if you've been very you know much a career woman, or you know, tied your identity and your self worth to these achievements and the things that you prided yourself on being able to do, and suddenly you can't even wash your hair, or get through.

28:03 A day, or leave the house, or leave the house, or get back to emails or so. It's and this pressure of responsibility. And as I said, I worked a lot with new mums and I remember one mum saying to me she just felt this overwhelming pressure and the weight of the responsibility of being the person who had to keep this baby alive. That's the pressure of breastfeeding, and especially if it's not going well, and especially if you don't want to necessarily go to formula, and a lot of mums don't, and you know, right or wrong, make your own decision. But if you feel that pressure that you would rather breastfeed, that that can be enormously difficult. And also your milk supply can change. I had an oversupply which was traumatic because I had to work with lactation consultant to bring my boobs down and normalize my supply because Arnold wasn't feeding because there was too much milk and it gave him reflux. And then I had periods where I stressing myself out working and with Arnold, and by the end of the day I didn't have enough of milla drops and then having to increase my calories and work around that. And you know, for me, it was very hard because at one point, I'm trying to get fit and healthy. My job is to do fitness videos every day, but if I did too much, it affected how I fed Arnold and it was just such a stressful time. We're all back to, you know, finding our way now, but.

29:28 It is such a stress and everything that you're talking about is very normal. And every day is different, every week is different. If people say can't you do this? Next week, you can go, sure, commit, and then that week the baby throws a curveball. Life changes again because babies grow and develop and change. Yeah, there's no predictable routine anymore, and that's challenging if you're a person who has routine, thrived on predictability and routine, and a lot of the mums that I would see struggling post natally. And I would say I would say this probably applied to myself as well. And I know that I've spoken to you about it. But the mums who tend to be high achieving, like order, like routine, maybe a little bit perfectionist, you know, they pride themselves on doing things well and having a sense of control, control and predictability. And suddenly there's no more control, and suddenly you thought you're a competent person and you can't do the most basic thing. It's shattering mentally, and nobody understands it. Like your partner can be there and be supportive, but they don't really get it, especially if you're the one at home, and this is often the case, you're the one at home, and then they walk out the door and go to work and have coffee and eat lunch and do all of those things that adult people get to do.

30:50 Fill up the car with petrol. I was so jelly gosh. Yeah, it's like, I'm just gonna go out and get some petrol. I'd love to do that. My husband was so helpful when and he was working from home actually when I had Annabelle, my daughter, and so and he was amazingly helpful. But he would say, okay, I'll put the washing out. We had a corner store, like a grocery store on our corner, like literally, and so he would say, I'll run down and I'll get the groceries. And I would say to get the grocery. I would beg ed because at one stage we had a blind in Arnold's room with a shard of light keeping him awake coming through the blind. And I had to go get those vulcro things that stick the blind to the you know, the window, and I just had to go to Bunnings. And it's like, I'll go to Bunnings.

31:36 It's a waste of your time. You stay here. I'm like, please, please, love you, don't let me go to Bunnings. I'm going around house kick you. I have to go to Bunnings right now. It's an outing for me, ed. And then I would go out, though if I did, I say, oh, thank goodness, and I'd get to the store and she'd start crying. Yeah, and he would be on the phone saying I don't know what to do. So it's just and then that's the pressure that's like, oh gosh, I am never going to have a minute to myself ever again in my life, and of course we do. Of course you get through that, yes, but you can't see that at the time. So how do you deal with that? Cast Like, if you're feeling that moment. I would say, first and foremost, it's like being trapped. It is, it is, and I remember for that feeling very well, like I'm staring at these four walls. I'm not a game to leave the house, but I don't want to be here either. I think if your GP, as yours was and as mine was, is gently suggesting that perhaps you might there might be something going on here that is beyond the normal sort of mood fluctuations of post partum, that you might want to take that on board, because I think a lot of people just say dismiss it and think this, I'm just having a bad day, when in fact, if you're having a lot of bad days, then that is an indication that it could be postnatal depression. And it doesn't mean that you have to I think people are very wary that that means something terrible or they'll be put on medications. Doesn't mean cast well, it just means that you could use some support, right and so just getting a referral to a psychologist could be a really useful thing.

33:01 What if you're like me and I was like, I haven't got time to go to a psychologist. I can't. I can't get the baby in the car and I want to take the baby out. I want to keep Arnold on his routine and naps, and like, how do. You well, you know, if it gets to a point where you have to make a priority, and we're talking here about prioritizing your mental health, and sometimes it gets to the point and I think a lot of women probably do put it off for that reason. It feels like another difficult, challenging thing. I didn't go to mother's group, did I? I could not manage to get myself to mother's group. And that was that can be potentially a really amazing support And women make, you know, really firm friendships in mother's group and keeps them throughout their children's lives.

33:44 And I had one or two girls from mother's group who would follow me up and say how are you going? And when she got a bit older, then I was able to go and have a coffee. But the regular mother's group meetings, I was a no show. Pretty much every time, and so this is how women end up so isolated. Yes, and it's very isolating. I just saw something on Facebook today and I shared it actually because we were recording this about the loneliness. Yeah, it's so lonely. Yeah. And you can be in a room full of people, all these visitors coming over to look at your baby, and you can still be feeling so lonely. Yeah. And I think the important thing is to ask for help and not be afraid to ask for help. And I think a big part of the problem is that we are bombarded with images and messages and even on social media about how wonderful it is to be a mum, and all we see is the cute, happy, smiling babies and the pitch commercials on the TV about how lovely it is to have this giggling, gurgling baby.

34:42 And if that's not your reality, it can very much feel like you are the only one, yeah, who's not doing it right, or you've got the bad baby. I used to think, how came I got the dud baby? Cass Oh, bless a little soul. She's like, I know, and you love your baby, and you love your baby so much, But people would say, And I remember saying to people it was really hard and nobody else seemed to be struggling. That's how it felt to me, and I think that's how it feels for a lot of mums, like nobody el I'm going to get teary now. Yeah, that's okay, Cash, I wasn't expecting that. Yeah, that's how small. I want to give you a big hug.

35:23 That's okay. I always want to give you a hug. Now you're making me teary. Oh god, pass. It's really hard, isn't it. It is hard when it feels like you're the only one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And. And in give me a second, m And I was going to say, many of my friends who are psychologists, says well, who have had gone on to have babies, surprise, surprise, are specializing in postnatal depression. And that's because when you've been through it, Yeah, when you've been through it, you just want to help other people, you know, help women.

36:14 And I had mums come to me and say, my first question is have you had a baby, because they weren't interested in seeing a psychologist who and they had seen psychologists who had no idea what you know, who had given them the old just sleep when the baby sleeps, as if that's helpful. Do not say that to me, you know, these sorts of what if you have a todd life? Oh, exactly exactly. But they wanted to talk to somebody who they knew could relate. And I think that's really important. You want to talk to people who get it. And oftentimes if you feel like nobody else gets it, even in your amongst your circle of friends or your family, then that's the most isolating thing.

37:01 Yeah, and it is so hard, And like you, I didn't do Mother's Group because I was terrified of what they may think about me being back at work really with a baby. Fear of the judgment. Yeah. And I was working, and I was working hard because I had this baby. And I looked at his little gorgeous cheeks and I was like, I want to build a life for you. And I'd started a business and I got pregnant two months into that beautiful business and I have a fantastic team that work with me that I did not want to let down. I didn't want my business going down the toilet because I had had a baby. How's the pressure though? And I was like, I need to be back teaching, doing fitness videos, giving to my members, showing women the way, and all I wanted to do was cry. So that is not going to help, you know. And I was too scared to go to mother's group and reach out for help. I was too scared to tell ed who was keeping the family going? And he's a comedian here to get up in the morning and tell jokes, And how is he going to be bloody funny with a wife at home crying and a baby screaming? So you know, there's pressure everywhere. How we affect you know, everything, so you get through it by asking for help.

38:17 Knew this was going to be. But also I think asking for help is the most important thing and prioritizing that absolutely and get professional, professional help. Do GP do it alone. I say to people, you do not have to struggle alone. A good GP wife, you're obstetrician, whoever you trust. I was calling my obstetrician. I felt like we had been through so much and I thought, I thought after I had the baby, I was like, are you leaving me? After nine months? I had become so attached to him, and I was calling his office and they were so good and for me. That was my support system and my mum obviously, but you do find that you have different ways of doing things to you, even your parents, and you know, you just have to find that person and have perhaps that one voice in your head because there's so many opinions of how to do things. And for me, fresh air was great.

39:16 Oh you've got to get outside. Let's get back to the tip. You've got to get outside. So psychologically, how can fresh air help? Because I did that because it just felt good, But psychologically. Well, we just know it does vitamin D fresh air, just getting out of the house. I would always say to women, especially towards the end of the day, but anytime of the day it's fine, but especially around at five o'clock in the afternoon when it cools down and you can just get out for a walk. It can make all the difference going through then into the evening because the evening bed. Bath, bottle, all the bees, rest whatever you're doing it and witching. Hour the bees. Oftentimes the end of the day is a difficult time with baby. So if you could give yourself a little bit of a break and get outside, that can be really helpful.

40:00 Yeah, I found that really helpful. And at first I was, you know, not navigating the gutters right with my pram. I was freaking out about the sun and the baby. It was all so scary. But you have to take that first step, and I made my sister come along. The first time we went around the block, and then I built up the distance and then I found physically if you are someone who wants to get your fitness back, and you want to because for me something that really affected me having Arnold. Usually if I felt a bit flat in my life, if I had a moment where I felt just unmotivated, what I would do is go for a walk or move my body and the physiology changing my physiology would give me a boost of endorphins and give my brain that hit and then I would feel better. But what do you do when you're at home with a baby and I couldn't move and I couldn't give myself that endorphin hit that my coping mechanisms had changed. Yes, so I started to do tiffecso in the living room, which helped, but also that was after six weeks. But before six weeks, if you want to start moving, you can walk, which is great with the fresh air but also the pelvic floor. I urge all moms out there to do what they can to if you can afford it, find a really good women's health physio and start working that pelvic floor. You feel good once your pelvic floor is back, and just giving your love and the time, because if that issues happen around

41:30 a prolay can be really bad psychologically you never get back into fitness. It's just builds and builds and builds. So looking after your pelvic floor is number one. I say, I. Had a cesarean actually, so I had again a long time that I couldn't do anything. Yes, don't lift anything heavier than your baby, don't drive a car, so that's really limiting as well. Yeah, absolutely. And you know when there's things to be done and you feel like you can't do anything, you just have to take the pressure off. Isn't it a message pressure off Lower? Well, I always say lower, but you manage your expectations about what you will get done in a day and take the pressure off everything. I think I wanted to mention briefly to this idea, this pressure to be the perfect parent, because and again everybody's got an opinion, and we put I think a lot of women. The problem is we do everything else in our life so well that we anticipate that we'll do parenting really well.

42:25 But that there's a phrase that came out of you know, developmental psychologist back in the oh I don't remember, in our sixties. Donald Winnicott is his name, and it came up with this concept of the good enough parent. And I tell that to everybody, all the mumps that I speak to, all the mumps that I meet. What we are going for here is good enough parenting. You don't have to be the perfect parent attending. Oh yes, you need to attend to your baby. Of course, you need to attend to your baby's needs. But let go of that perfectionist idea about parenting because a lot of the mood stuff and the challenge we face, these expectations we place on ourselves. It is so hard. It is so hard. And I even went into you know, having Arnold, and I wanted him to always be dressed perfectly, and you know, but then he had refluxed, so he's vomiting all day, and the washing was piling up, and I was so embarrassed about how much washing I had to do. I didn't want people to come over.

43:21 We've heard about your showers. Yeah, exactly, I didn't. I was too embarrassed to ask for help because that would mean someone would come to the house see the washing, and I would like die mortified, mortified. So you know, you do have to reach out for help. Say, you know, laundry is a mess. Actually there's laundry all over the house. Yes, you know, And but I need help take the pressure off. Yeah, asking for help is so important, and I just think we don't do it enough in any area of life, actually, but especially. With I won't forget. I will never forget. One of my closest friends. She heard in my voice that something right. She sent me a text and said, there's something on your doorstep and it was freshly made homemade rocky road and a beautiful beef, you know, slow cooked meal with bread.

44:13 And she had thought of everything, condiments, everything in a basket. And I say, if you want to do something for a new mum, bring them food, Send them food. Don't go into the house to say it's on the front door, you know, perfect, because yeah it perfect. I always say too. Like things that you can do to help are like order a nappy service, send in a cleaner or send food. But anything that takes some of that load off is really helpful, especially in those early days. Yeah, it's so difficult, but if you can get some fresh air, ask for help, see a professional. And I would say too. And I just want to throw this in right at the end, to not necessarily be scared of medication if medication is indicated, okay, because and I'm not a doctor, I obviously don't prescribe medication, but I have across women who resist it. They fear that it will affect the breastfeeding, or they just have an aversion to taking any sort of medication. And it's not for everybody, and some people can get through fine without it, but I have known so many mums who when they finally actually relent and they say, Okay, maybe I need to take something to get me through the worst part of this, they will often say, I just wish I had not resisted it for as long as I did, because I didn't realize that I didn't have to suffer as much as I was. Like, they actually don't even realize how much they were suffering until they're not anymore. So I always just say keep an open mind.

45:39 With that sort of thing. And with that, you have to look after mum because there's so much emphasis on the new baby and you have this baby and everyone comes over to see the baby, see the baby. How's a baby? How's a baby? But how how's mum? How's mum? And mum? You need some time and it's not selfish to take a me moment or even if you don't have time for me time and looking after yourself, whether that's a five minute home workout or cooking yourself a healthy meal and not just grabbing snacks or eating cereal out of the packet like I was for dinner because I didn't have time to cook. You know. After a few weeks in with Arnold, I said, that's it, Tiffany. You're not eating like this. You're going to go back to eating good nutrition for your milk, for your baby, for your mindset, for your hormones, you know. And that wasn't selfish, even though I felt I felt guilty about it. Yeah, you know, so take some time off and do what works.

46:32 Yeah. And if you've got honestly and create a if you've got family, A lot of people. Don't have family, Some people don't. Yeah, and that interstate or that's an indicator or not an indicator, that's a risk factor for depression post natally. So if you've had history of depression in the past, if you don't have a lot of support, if you have tended to be very kind of high achieving, perfectionist, then these are all in risk factors for depression. So if you can create a commit if there are people around you, tap into those resources. It does take a village to raise a child, and these days we don't have that village, so you do have to reach out. We hope that helps you listen.

47:13 Tears and all casts, thank you so much. That really helped me great and I hope that helps you listener. So next episode we're going to be talking about how to be more resilient, bouncing back after you've had a failure. Or a setback or a disappointment. A disappointment, we'll talk to you soon. Crappy to Happy is presented by Cast Doune, produced by Dave's Vilenski. Audio production by Darcy Thompson. Listener