April 18, 2021

Living a Creative Life with Samantha Wills

Living a Creative Life with Samantha Wills
The player is loading ...
Living a Creative Life with Samantha Wills
Living a Creative Life with Samantha Wills
Apple Podcasts podcast player icon Spotify podcast player icon Castro podcast player icon PocketCasts podcast player icon Podchaser podcast player icon
Apple Podcasts podcast player icon Spotify podcast player icon Castro podcast player icon PocketCasts podcast player icon Podchaser podcast player icon
Season 6 Creativity & Self-Expression Job Satisfaction

Cass Dunn talks to Samantha Wills about her journey from selling jewellery at the Bondi markets to creating a multi-million dollar, global business and then choosing to close it down and walk away at the height of its success. Samantha shares the ups and downs of being a creative entrepreneur, the struggle to maintain balance and the importance of trusting her intuition and following her heart when making tough decisions.You can buy Samantha’s memoir Of Gold and Dust here: https://tinyurl.com/5c6ctjvm
Find out about her online workshops at www.samanthawills.comFollow her on Instagram: www.instagram.com/samanthawills
Connect with Cass:www.crappytohappypod.comhello@crappytohappypod.com 
www.instagram.com/crappytohappypodwww.tiktok.com/crappytohappypod
Join the free 7-day Happiness Challenge:www.cassdunn.com/happiness

Connect with Cass:

www.cassdunn.com
www.instagram.com/cassdunn_xo

Contact Crappy to Happy:

Email: hello@crappytohappypod.com
www.crappytohappypod.com
www.instagram.com/crappytohappypod
www.tiktok.com/@crappytohappypod


Are you a coach, therapist, service provider or solopreneur struggling with self-doubt and imposter syndrome? I'd love to talk to you! (for market research purposes only!)

Book a call with me to share your experience.

Want more great content and less ads?

Upgrade to Paid in the Spotify or Apple podcasts App to get immediate access to "Beyond Happy", the subscriber only podcast featuring bonus content, meditations and more!

Transcript
WEBVTT

1
00:00:02.680 --> 00:00:03.960
A listener production.

2
00:00:08.160 --> 00:00:10.679
This is Crappy to Happy, and I'm your host Castunn.

3
00:00:11.000 --> 00:00:14.279
I'm a clinical and coaching psychologist, a mindfulness meditation teacher,

4
00:00:14.480 --> 00:00:17.280
and author of the Crappy to Happy books. In this show,

5
00:00:17.359 --> 00:00:21.519
I bring you conversations with interesting, inspiring, intelligent people who

6
00:00:21.519 --> 00:00:24.000
are experts in their field and who have something of

7
00:00:24.120 --> 00:00:26.679
value to share that will help you feel a little

8
00:00:26.719 --> 00:00:33.200
bit less crappy and more happy. Samantha Wills began selling

9
00:00:33.320 --> 00:00:36.320
her handcrafted jewelry at the Bondi Markets when she was

10
00:00:36.399 --> 00:00:39.320
just twenty one years old, and while she'll be the

11
00:00:39.359 --> 00:00:41.479
first to tell you that there is no such thing

12
00:00:41.560 --> 00:00:45.840
as an overnight success, a few relatively short years later,

13
00:00:46.079 --> 00:00:48.560
that very jewelry that she'd been designing at her kitchen

14
00:00:48.640 --> 00:00:52.280
table was being worn by celebrities like Katy Perry and

15
00:00:52.399 --> 00:00:55.320
Eva Mendez. Was even featured on the Sex and the

16
00:00:55.320 --> 00:00:59.719
City movie. Samantha Will's jewelry became a global brand worth

17
00:00:59.759 --> 00:01:03.439
miss millions of dollars, and Samantha Will's the person became

18
00:01:03.520 --> 00:01:06.599
the head of a global company. She was splitting her

19
00:01:06.599 --> 00:01:09.760
time between New York and Sydney, trying to maintain some

20
00:01:09.920 --> 00:01:14.079
semblance of balance in her life. Dealing with imposter syndrome

21
00:01:14.519 --> 00:01:17.319
and learning to stay true to her instincts and out

22
00:01:17.359 --> 00:01:20.200
of the comparison trap. She also had to learn to

23
00:01:20.239 --> 00:01:23.159
manage the business side of things while also being the

24
00:01:23.200 --> 00:01:26.280
creative force behind it, and then when the company was

25
00:01:26.280 --> 00:01:29.040
at the height of its success, she made the tough

26
00:01:29.079 --> 00:01:31.959
decision to follow her heart and close the business and

27
00:01:32.079 --> 00:01:36.840
walk away. On this episode, Samantha is very generously sharing

28
00:01:36.879 --> 00:01:39.319
some of her hard won lessons and wisdom, and I

29
00:01:39.359 --> 00:01:43.000
know that you'll find her just as engaging and inspiring

30
00:01:43.040 --> 00:01:46.239
as I did, and that you'll take something away of value,

31
00:01:46.920 --> 00:01:49.599
especially if you happen to be a creative entrepreneur, but

32
00:01:49.799 --> 00:01:52.840
even if you're not. She's just released her memoir of

33
00:01:52.959 --> 00:01:55.400
Gold and Dust, and she's also launched a series of

34
00:01:55.680 --> 00:01:58.200
online master classes and workshops, which I'll tell you about

35
00:01:58.239 --> 00:02:02.959
after the episode, but for now, he's my chat with Samantha. Samantha,

36
00:02:03.239 --> 00:02:05.239
it is such a treat to have you on the

37
00:02:05.280 --> 00:02:07.719
Crappy a Happy Podcast. Thank you for being here.

38
00:02:07.840 --> 00:02:09.400
Thank you for having me. It's a treat to be on.

39
00:02:09.919 --> 00:02:12.840
I get sent a lot of books because I interview

40
00:02:12.879 --> 00:02:16.080
a lot of authors on this show, and honestly, so

41
00:02:16.120 --> 00:02:19.000
many books that often I don't get to read them properly.

42
00:02:19.000 --> 00:02:20.639
I have to kind of skim through and pick out

43
00:02:20.639 --> 00:02:22.400
the highlights and the things that I really want to

44
00:02:22.400 --> 00:02:25.479
talk to you about. But your book, I read from

45
00:02:25.560 --> 00:02:31.039
cover to cover. I absolutely loved it, and I don't

46
00:02:31.080 --> 00:02:33.639
often get to do that, but I was really I

47
00:02:33.680 --> 00:02:35.599
really appreciate it. You've done a fantastic job. I just

48
00:02:35.639 --> 00:02:36.800
wanted to say that upfront.

49
00:02:37.319 --> 00:02:37.719
Thank you.

50
00:02:37.879 --> 00:02:40.479
That is truly the biggest compliment, because as a reader,

51
00:02:40.520 --> 00:02:41.960
I'm lacky, but it doesn't get me in the first

52
00:02:42.039 --> 00:02:44.280
few pages. I'm like, oh, I'll get back to it later,

53
00:02:44.280 --> 00:02:46.360
and I never do. So that was kind of my

54
00:02:46.439 --> 00:02:49.960
biggest fear as a first time author, and so many

55
00:02:50.000 --> 00:02:52.479
people have said it just as kindly as you just did,

56
00:02:52.560 --> 00:02:54.000
so that is a huge compliment.

57
00:02:54.039 --> 00:02:54.439
Thank you.

58
00:02:55.199 --> 00:02:59.439
It is an amazing story, obviously an amazing success story,

59
00:02:59.479 --> 00:03:02.439
but you've also really been very open and sharing the

60
00:03:02.520 --> 00:03:05.479
challenges that you have had along the way. And I

61
00:03:05.520 --> 00:03:07.400
know a lot of my listeners on this show will

62
00:03:07.400 --> 00:03:09.479
really relate to some of those challenges and will just

63
00:03:09.560 --> 00:03:12.159
be all eased to hear about your you know, the

64
00:03:12.240 --> 00:03:17.280
lessons and the wisdom that you have gained from your experience. So, Samantha,

65
00:03:17.360 --> 00:03:22.199
you grew a jewelry brand from your kitchen table basically

66
00:03:22.360 --> 00:03:27.360
to a multimillion dollar empire, you know, sold in stores

67
00:03:27.400 --> 00:03:31.039
all around the world. You also talk about at every

68
00:03:31.199 --> 00:03:34.479
almost every stage of that journey in the book, you

69
00:03:34.560 --> 00:03:37.960
refer to imposter syndrome. Now, this is a topic that

70
00:03:38.159 --> 00:03:40.879
is an important one. I think I've been talking to

71
00:03:40.919 --> 00:03:44.080
my listeners and my community about this experience of imposter

72
00:03:44.159 --> 00:03:46.479
syndrome that affects so many women. So I was really

73
00:03:46.520 --> 00:03:50.000
intrigued that you mentioned that despite all of your external success,

74
00:03:50.039 --> 00:03:52.919
you constantly had this feeling of and for listeners who

75
00:03:52.960 --> 00:03:56.039
don't know that term, it is essentially like the feeling

76
00:03:56.159 --> 00:03:59.639
of never being good enough, smart enough, qualified enough, talented

77
00:03:59.680 --> 00:04:02.159
enough to be in the places where you are, despite

78
00:04:02.159 --> 00:04:05.240
all the evidence to the contrary. So I guess, Samantha,

79
00:04:05.240 --> 00:04:07.840
I'm just curious to know how did imposter syndrome affect

80
00:04:07.879 --> 00:04:10.680
you and what kind of strategies did you use to

81
00:04:10.759 --> 00:04:13.719
overcome that to keep moving forward with this business.

82
00:04:14.400 --> 00:04:16.160
Yeah, I think it's well, you know, in the book,

83
00:04:16.160 --> 00:04:18.959
I actually give imposter syndrome it's own character, So it

84
00:04:19.040 --> 00:04:23.439
plays such a bigs in my life. I don't remember

85
00:04:23.560 --> 00:04:27.319
really a time without it, and I think the more

86
00:04:27.480 --> 00:04:30.360
I've progressed down my career path, I actually think the worse.

87
00:04:30.439 --> 00:04:33.199
It's got to be honest, and I think that for

88
00:04:33.240 --> 00:04:36.480
so long I held on so tightly to be like

89
00:04:36.519 --> 00:04:38.600
I need to get imposter syndrome out of my life, like,

90
00:04:38.959 --> 00:04:42.519
and exerted so much energy to try and move it

91
00:04:42.759 --> 00:04:46.600
completely out, and it just it didn't. And my experience

92
00:04:46.680 --> 00:04:48.639
is like I don't think it ever goes away. So

93
00:04:48.680 --> 00:04:52.959
what I've tried to do into combating it is trying

94
00:04:52.959 --> 00:04:55.000
to find a way to live alongside it rather than

95
00:04:55.040 --> 00:04:57.360
exert all this energy to try and get rid of it.

96
00:04:57.360 --> 00:04:59.360
It's like, all right, how can I find some type

97
00:04:59.360 --> 00:05:01.120
of piece this is going to be in my life?

98
00:05:01.279 --> 00:05:04.319
How do I find peace around it? So you know,

99
00:05:04.399 --> 00:05:06.920
I now you know, really acknowledge it, and I'm like,

100
00:05:06.920 --> 00:05:09.839
all right, I see im foster syndrome, Like, just give

101
00:05:09.839 --> 00:05:11.240
me ten minutes to kind of get this.

102
00:05:11.319 --> 00:05:13.519
Done or you know, trying.

103
00:05:13.639 --> 00:05:14.839
And this is a hard thing because I think we

104
00:05:14.920 --> 00:05:16.839
go into these vortex right when we get in that

105
00:05:16.920 --> 00:05:19.959
deep conversation with imposter syndrome, but we have to be

106
00:05:20.000 --> 00:05:23.319
able to somehow step back from it and really separate

107
00:05:23.480 --> 00:05:27.720
fact from fiction because that vortex spiral is a really

108
00:05:27.920 --> 00:05:30.319
slippery slope and before we know what we can, we

109
00:05:30.360 --> 00:05:32.920
can be deep in that and it's a long journey out.

110
00:05:33.079 --> 00:05:36.839
So separating fact from fiction. I also flip it around

111
00:05:36.879 --> 00:05:38.759
and I'm like, if someone was talking to my best

112
00:05:38.800 --> 00:05:41.759
friend that way, I would be like, that's a hard note.

113
00:05:41.800 --> 00:05:44.680
Put a stop to the conversation and you know, and

114
00:05:44.720 --> 00:05:48.120
put distance between that. But when it's ourselves and the

115
00:05:48.160 --> 00:05:51.360
conversation with imposter syndrome, for some reason, we don't offer

116
00:05:51.360 --> 00:05:55.120
ourselves that same empathy or you know, action. So really,

117
00:05:55.360 --> 00:05:58.000
you know, flipping the roles that pretending it's like someone

118
00:05:58.000 --> 00:06:00.000
speaking to your best friend and how would you react

119
00:06:00.079 --> 00:06:02.279
and applied that reaction to it, the.

120
00:06:02.240 --> 00:06:06.040
Fact that you, even as you say, gave it its

121
00:06:06.079 --> 00:06:09.399
own character. I think it's a really useful strategy. It's

122
00:06:09.399 --> 00:06:12.160
like a really useful distancing technique, isn't it. It's like

123
00:06:12.800 --> 00:06:16.279
here's me and over there is my imposter syndrome and

124
00:06:16.560 --> 00:06:19.279
it comes along for the ride, but it doesn't kind

125
00:06:19.279 --> 00:06:21.959
of call the shots. That's a really I think that's

126
00:06:22.000 --> 00:06:23.439
a really clever strategy.

127
00:06:23.720 --> 00:06:25.399
Yeah, And I think if you look at it as

128
00:06:25.519 --> 00:06:28.519
a character, as a person like you would not choose

129
00:06:28.560 --> 00:06:30.240
to hang around with someone like that if it was

130
00:06:30.279 --> 00:06:33.519
an actual person in real life. But the conversation is

131
00:06:33.639 --> 00:06:36.279
very real, So you know, what are we doing? And

132
00:06:36.319 --> 00:06:38.199
if we don't put a stop to it, no one will.

133
00:06:38.319 --> 00:06:40.240
You know what I mean, Like, I'm thirty nine years old,

134
00:06:40.279 --> 00:06:41.680
and often I'm like, I'm just going to wait for

135
00:06:41.720 --> 00:06:43.439
an adult to tell me what to do. And I

136
00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:46.199
was like, no, no, you're you're the adult here, So

137
00:06:47.120 --> 00:06:50.399
you know, we have to take that responsibility to disrupt

138
00:06:50.399 --> 00:06:51.079
that conversation.

139
00:06:51.680 --> 00:06:53.439
Yeah, and I think the other point that you made,

140
00:06:53.439 --> 00:06:55.319
which I think is a really important one to make,

141
00:06:55.759 --> 00:06:59.560
because when I see people offer advice with regard to

142
00:06:59.600 --> 00:07:03.160
how to over become this imposter syndrome, it is often

143
00:07:03.759 --> 00:07:05.680
almost like fake it till you make it and then

144
00:07:05.759 --> 00:07:09.560
allow your success to show you that you do have

145
00:07:09.600 --> 00:07:13.759
what it takes. And as you said, often with imposter syndrome,

146
00:07:13.800 --> 00:07:16.720
the more successful you become, the worse it actually gets

147
00:07:16.800 --> 00:07:22.439
because the more exposed, the more visible, the higher the fall,

148
00:07:22.680 --> 00:07:25.879
like the higher the drop if things were to go wrong.

149
00:07:26.480 --> 00:07:28.879
And so yeah, that's why I think that it's really

150
00:07:28.920 --> 00:07:31.040
important that we actually be real about the fact that

151
00:07:31.040 --> 00:07:33.759
that often is not the solution, and we have to

152
00:07:33.759 --> 00:07:37.000
come up with another way to address it so that

153
00:07:37.079 --> 00:07:38.279
it doesn't get in the way.

154
00:07:38.959 --> 00:07:40.759
I think, to me, if I was to apply fake

155
00:07:40.800 --> 00:07:42.279
it till you make it, and I'm like, and that

156
00:07:42.360 --> 00:07:45.000
might work in short bursts, and I've definitely implemented that

157
00:07:45.040 --> 00:07:49.120
strategy before, but to have to operate at a level

158
00:07:49.120 --> 00:07:52.199
of fake it till you make it always just sounds

159
00:07:52.279 --> 00:07:55.240
exhausting to me, like that I wouldn't be able to

160
00:07:55.240 --> 00:07:57.480
operate like that. And I think I read a quote

161
00:07:57.480 --> 00:07:59.839
and this is not verbatim, but I really liked how

162
00:07:59.839 --> 00:08:02.680
it came together. It was a quote by Jodie Foster

163
00:08:02.800 --> 00:08:04.199
and she was like, you know, when they gave me

164
00:08:04.240 --> 00:08:06.920
the Oscar, I just stood up there and it was

165
00:08:06.959 --> 00:08:08.800
just like they've made a mistake, Like this is not

166
00:08:08.920 --> 00:08:11.160
meant for me, Like they must have.

167
00:08:11.240 --> 00:08:12.639
Meant to give this to Meryl Streep.

168
00:08:13.000 --> 00:08:15.319
And then the next quote was Meryl Streep being like,

169
00:08:15.639 --> 00:08:17.480
you know, I don't even know why people come and

170
00:08:17.519 --> 00:08:20.720
see me in movies anyway, Like I can't act anyway,

171
00:08:20.920 --> 00:08:22.720
And you know, it was this whole like you're like,

172
00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:25.480
all right, well, if Meryl streep firstly is thinking about

173
00:08:25.560 --> 00:08:26.720
and has imposter syndrome.

174
00:08:26.879 --> 00:08:28.279
Then we must all experience.

175
00:08:28.879 --> 00:08:32.559
I think it's also such an insular, you know, conversation

176
00:08:32.679 --> 00:08:35.480
and experience that we're always like, Oh, she doesn't have it,

177
00:08:35.559 --> 00:08:37.240
she's so successful, she doesn't have it.

178
00:08:37.279 --> 00:08:39.080
And I'm like, everyone has it.

179
00:08:39.159 --> 00:08:42.440
Everyone is going through some type of conversation with imposter syndrome.

180
00:08:42.960 --> 00:08:45.639
And you know, my mom said to me when I

181
00:08:45.679 --> 00:08:46.960
was in high school, it's going to a party.

182
00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:47.679
I was like, Oh, I.

183
00:08:47.639 --> 00:08:49.440
Really don't like my shoes, Like everyone's going to be

184
00:08:49.480 --> 00:08:51.879
looking at my shoes at this party. She's like, get

185
00:08:51.919 --> 00:08:54.879
over yourself, Like everyone's worried about their own shoes. No

186
00:08:54.919 --> 00:08:56.679
one's looking at your shoes. And I think that's the

187
00:08:57.080 --> 00:08:58.399
whole thing. We think, Oh, you know what if I

188
00:08:58.440 --> 00:09:00.440
try this, and what's someone going to think? And I'm like,

189
00:09:00.639 --> 00:09:02.440
no one really gives a shit, to be honest, I'm like,

190
00:09:02.480 --> 00:09:05.720
everyone's so worried about themselves. So I think keeping that

191
00:09:05.759 --> 00:09:08.679
in mind is a good, good reminder that we're all

192
00:09:08.799 --> 00:09:09.600
very selfish beings.

193
00:09:09.639 --> 00:09:11.639
We're all just worried about what everyone else thinks about us.

194
00:09:11.840 --> 00:09:14.399
Yeah, exactly exactly. And I think what you said earlier too,

195
00:09:14.399 --> 00:09:17.039
about you can't sustain that fake it till you make it.

196
00:09:17.080 --> 00:09:18.960
The other thing is that when you feel like a fraud,

197
00:09:19.000 --> 00:09:22.240
like when you've imposter syndrome, is essentially feeling like you're

198
00:09:22.240 --> 00:09:26.440
already faking it. So to expect to continue to do

199
00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:28.559
that when you're already feeling like a complete fraud that

200
00:09:28.600 --> 00:09:31.320
somebody's going to find you at is really unhelpful advice.

201
00:09:32.399 --> 00:09:36.799
Despite all of that fear and those feelings of not

202
00:09:36.840 --> 00:09:42.440
being good enough, you did create an incredibly, incredibly successful business, Samantha,

203
00:09:42.519 --> 00:09:46.720
and you seemed to have correct me if I'm wrong.

204
00:09:47.000 --> 00:09:51.200
You had an intuitive sense of what this business needed.

205
00:09:51.440 --> 00:09:56.960
You really had an instinct for the product and how

206
00:09:56.960 --> 00:10:02.559
to grow the business. Some curious to ask you how

207
00:10:02.639 --> 00:10:09.679
much of your success was or how do people distinguish

208
00:10:10.120 --> 00:10:13.919
their intuitive, their gut feeling and go with that versus

209
00:10:14.240 --> 00:10:17.600
getting up in our heads and trying to think our

210
00:10:17.600 --> 00:10:21.080
way to solutions and outcomes, Like how do you find

211
00:10:21.080 --> 00:10:21.759
that balance?

212
00:10:22.039 --> 00:10:23.840
That is a great question, And this is one of

213
00:10:23.840 --> 00:10:26.639
my favorite things in the whole entire world to talk about.

214
00:10:26.720 --> 00:10:29.639
And I think intuition is not a new word to us,

215
00:10:29.720 --> 00:10:31.519
right like we've known it since we were kids, and

216
00:10:31.559 --> 00:10:33.399
you know, we know what the concept of it means.

217
00:10:33.799 --> 00:10:35.720
I think though, as we get older, we start to

218
00:10:35.799 --> 00:10:38.159
really see the power of it and start to really

219
00:10:38.360 --> 00:10:41.360
learn the communication between you know, I guess our body,

220
00:10:41.440 --> 00:10:44.120
our gut, feeling and what you know, hopefully start to

221
00:10:44.120 --> 00:10:45.879
trust that more, but at the very least start to

222
00:10:45.960 --> 00:10:48.080
learn what that means, because you know, when you do something,

223
00:10:48.120 --> 00:10:50.120
you're like, oh, I just knew that wasn't right, Like

224
00:10:50.159 --> 00:10:52.279
I should have known better, because we probably did know better,

225
00:10:52.320 --> 00:10:55.080
but we go against it. Yes, So I think in

226
00:10:55.159 --> 00:10:57.960
my studying, and I study this topic a lot of

227
00:10:58.399 --> 00:11:02.440
intuition verse fear, you know, I talk about the feeling filter,

228
00:11:02.519 --> 00:11:04.559
which is, you know, our gart and our soul and

229
00:11:04.600 --> 00:11:08.399
our heart, and then the thinking filter is obviously the mind.

230
00:11:08.679 --> 00:11:11.759
So you know, I now put everything first and foremost

231
00:11:11.759 --> 00:11:15.360
through the feeling filter, because you can't fake a feeling,

232
00:11:15.639 --> 00:11:17.600
you know what I mean, Like, that's that's your body

233
00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:21.279
talking to you. That's that's some intuity being on the

234
00:11:21.279 --> 00:11:24.200
inside of you, you know, talking to you and communicating

235
00:11:24.200 --> 00:11:26.879
with you. The thinking filter and the job of our

236
00:11:26.960 --> 00:11:29.039
mind is to keep us safe and keep us in

237
00:11:29.039 --> 00:11:30.240
a familiar place.

238
00:11:30.600 --> 00:11:31.200
Now when we're in.

239
00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:33.320
A familiar place doesn't always mean it's a great place.

240
00:11:33.360 --> 00:11:35.639
It could be, you know, a toxic relationship. It could

241
00:11:35.639 --> 00:11:39.600
be an uninspiring job, it could be you know, whatever

242
00:11:39.679 --> 00:11:43.080
it is. But the ego mind is always like, stay

243
00:11:43.120 --> 00:11:46.559
with what you know, no matter what that no matter

244
00:11:46.639 --> 00:11:49.120
what that is. So you know, when we're standing at

245
00:11:49.120 --> 00:11:51.919
a crossroads in any type of decision doesn't have to be,

246
00:11:52.799 --> 00:11:54.679
you know, a major life decision, it can be anything.

247
00:11:54.720 --> 00:11:57.159
Throughout the day, we're often going to be faced with

248
00:11:57.559 --> 00:12:00.559
the choice of fear or faith.

249
00:12:00.840 --> 00:12:04.440
And our our higher self and whatever that means to you,

250
00:12:04.600 --> 00:12:07.360
is always trying to direct us to our destiny, and

251
00:12:07.440 --> 00:12:10.080
that is and it's destiny sounds like a woo woo word,

252
00:12:10.159 --> 00:12:13.960
but it's you know, the destiny is is taking the

253
00:12:14.279 --> 00:12:16.279
one little step at a time into the unknown.

254
00:12:16.600 --> 00:12:19.480
So fear, the fear based choice in that instance.

255
00:12:19.200 --> 00:12:21.000
Is going to be stay with what you know, stay

256
00:12:21.000 --> 00:12:22.600
in the job you know because you know it's safe,

257
00:12:22.679 --> 00:12:25.240
even if something in you is like whispering that there

258
00:12:25.320 --> 00:12:28.519
is more. The leap of faith is the calm one,

259
00:12:28.519 --> 00:12:31.759
even though it's scary. The fear decision is staying exactly

260
00:12:31.759 --> 00:12:32.279
where you are.

261
00:12:32.720 --> 00:12:35.559
That's great advice. And it's very true. And I know

262
00:12:35.600 --> 00:12:37.759
it's a topic that comes up in my community all

263
00:12:37.840 --> 00:12:40.360
the time, like how do I tell what is the

264
00:12:40.440 --> 00:12:42.679
right thing? How do I? And it's and it's cultivating

265
00:12:42.720 --> 00:12:47.679
that self trust. Isn't it trusting that inner knowing to

266
00:12:47.720 --> 00:12:48.159
be honest?

267
00:12:48.200 --> 00:12:50.919
I say that, you know, lack, I've got it all

268
00:12:50.919 --> 00:12:53.960
worked out. I firstly, definitely do not. Secondly, I think

269
00:12:54.000 --> 00:12:57.120
that self trust is a life's work, Like it's constantly

270
00:12:57.159 --> 00:13:01.200
something we're having to practice and return and too, it's

271
00:13:01.240 --> 00:13:02.360
a complete life's work.

272
00:13:02.399 --> 00:13:04.919
Yeah, you mentioned in the book that the one time

273
00:13:04.919 --> 00:13:06.960
that you did get kind of up in your head

274
00:13:07.159 --> 00:13:10.759
and maybe perhaps caught up in whether you would call

275
00:13:10.799 --> 00:13:13.879
it a fear or ego, that you actually made a

276
00:13:13.919 --> 00:13:17.679
really big mistake. So was there a real was that

277
00:13:17.799 --> 00:13:20.279
kind of a turning point for you in terms of like, right,

278
00:13:20.480 --> 00:13:25.159
I just have to come back always to my gut instinct.

279
00:13:26.279 --> 00:13:29.080
Absolutely, So you know the story you're referring to. I

280
00:13:29.080 --> 00:13:30.720
made the move to New York because the brand was

281
00:13:31.120 --> 00:13:33.639
very successful in Australia. We're getting a lot of celebrity

282
00:13:33.679 --> 00:13:36.360
placements in the States. So my business partner's like, Hey,

283
00:13:36.360 --> 00:13:38.519
someone needs to drive this over there. So I made

284
00:13:38.519 --> 00:13:40.320
the move over. I think I was twenty eight at

285
00:13:40.320 --> 00:13:43.639
the time, and you know, I just got bezotted by

286
00:13:43.799 --> 00:13:46.440
everything that was New York. So I was out in,

287
00:13:46.759 --> 00:13:49.159
you know, doing market research in you know, these top

288
00:13:49.200 --> 00:13:52.320
tier stores, and you know, as brand builders and as

289
00:13:52.480 --> 00:13:55.360
creative directors, we can have every desire we want for

290
00:13:55.399 --> 00:13:57.840
our brand to be in a certain place of the market.

291
00:13:58.159 --> 00:14:00.000
But at the end of the day, it's the consumer

292
00:14:00.200 --> 00:14:02.960
right that they dictate where you sit. Whatever they're buying

293
00:14:02.960 --> 00:14:05.200
the most of is essentially what your core brand is.

294
00:14:05.679 --> 00:14:06.559
And we had found.

295
00:14:06.320 --> 00:14:08.639
Success as a tier two brand. When I say tier two,

296
00:14:08.720 --> 00:14:11.159
it means it's a very loyal following. A Tier one

297
00:14:11.200 --> 00:14:14.360
brand is more so people are affiliated to trends and

298
00:14:14.399 --> 00:14:16.759
they'll change every season depending on what brand is doing

299
00:14:16.840 --> 00:14:21.039
the trend thereafter, whereas a Tier two consumer is very

300
00:14:21.120 --> 00:14:24.679
much like I am brand loyal, you know. And I

301
00:14:24.720 --> 00:14:27.200
say tier two because I am a Tier two shopper myself.

302
00:14:27.320 --> 00:14:29.559
So I was like, okay, we had found where our

303
00:14:29.639 --> 00:14:31.559
niche in the market. With a Tier two shop, it

304
00:14:31.600 --> 00:14:34.039
was very relative. Her and I were in conversation with

305
00:14:34.120 --> 00:14:36.840
each other. We were a bohemian brand. It was you know,

306
00:14:36.919 --> 00:14:41.120
turquoise and large stones and burnished metals and bohemian styling

307
00:14:41.159 --> 00:14:43.120
and more, as more, as more. And then when I

308
00:14:43.159 --> 00:14:45.679
got to New York and you know, in all these

309
00:14:45.759 --> 00:14:49.240
top tier stores, it was minimal, it was polish metals,

310
00:14:49.279 --> 00:14:52.200
it was you know, no color whatsoever. And so I

311
00:14:52.240 --> 00:14:55.360
got into deep conversation with imposter syndrome, being like, you're

312
00:14:55.360 --> 00:14:57.279
not even a real designer, Like, look at what all

313
00:14:57.279 --> 00:15:00.240
the real designers are doing. You know, if you knew

314
00:15:00.279 --> 00:15:03.240
what you were doing, that's the you know, design language

315
00:15:03.240 --> 00:15:06.679
that you would do. And within one season, I turned

316
00:15:06.679 --> 00:15:09.840
the brand on its head and was like, guys, we're

317
00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:12.799
not doing turquoise anymore. You know, we're doing petite styling.

318
00:15:13.080 --> 00:15:15.000
We're not doing it. We're going to remove the word

319
00:15:15.039 --> 00:15:18.080
bohemian from the brand completely. And I was like, you

320
00:15:18.120 --> 00:15:20.600
know what, my story was so anchored from coming from

321
00:15:20.639 --> 00:15:23.240
Bondei markets. You know, through the journey, I was like,

322
00:15:23.279 --> 00:15:25.519
no one even knows where Bondai is in New York.

323
00:15:25.600 --> 00:15:29.720
Let's get rid of that, and essentially pulled every relativity

324
00:15:29.759 --> 00:15:33.639
of every connection point, every piece of color.

325
00:15:33.440 --> 00:15:34.240
Out of the brand.

326
00:15:34.399 --> 00:15:39.200
And you know, not shockingly, it failed miserably, and you know,

327
00:15:39.440 --> 00:15:42.440
it was really like hitting the you know, detonation bomb

328
00:15:42.480 --> 00:15:45.000
on the brand and I had to sit there in

329
00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:48.120
the rubble of it and kind of pick through these

330
00:15:48.159 --> 00:15:51.120
pieces and start to put it back together. But to

331
00:15:51.159 --> 00:15:53.440
do that, I had to go back to the girl

332
00:15:53.440 --> 00:15:55.720
at the Bondou Market's table and you know, why did

333
00:15:55.759 --> 00:15:59.039
we start this in the first place and build rebuild

334
00:15:59.039 --> 00:15:59.440
from there?

335
00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:03.279
Gosh, that is I mean, it's a terrible thing to happen,

336
00:16:03.279 --> 00:16:05.159
but it is such a great story and I think

337
00:16:05.200 --> 00:16:09.879
so applicable to everybody in every aspect of life that

338
00:16:10.120 --> 00:16:14.559
always coming back to who you are rather than trying

339
00:16:14.600 --> 00:16:18.080
to fit and mold and adapt to be something that

340
00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:22.480
you know you're really not to satisfy somebody who in

341
00:16:22.519 --> 00:16:26.240
the at the end of the day wasn't even satisfied totally.

342
00:16:26.279 --> 00:16:28.639
And I think, you know, and whether it's relates to

343
00:16:28.720 --> 00:16:32.840
business or personal branding or personal situation, and I think,

344
00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:34.960
you know, we're living in this age of age of

345
00:16:35.039 --> 00:16:38.279
perceived perfection, so we're trying to you know, bend ourselves

346
00:16:38.279 --> 00:16:38.879
to look like.

347
00:16:38.840 --> 00:16:40.200
Everything else on Instagram.

348
00:16:40.279 --> 00:16:44.399
And you know, the biggest takeaway for me in when

349
00:16:44.519 --> 00:16:47.440
I ruined the brand in one season and I nearly

350
00:16:47.480 --> 00:16:49.799
bankrupted us like it wasn't it wasn't insignificant.

351
00:16:49.840 --> 00:16:51.120
It was a pretty big mess up.

352
00:16:52.480 --> 00:16:54.480
I think that, you know, the biggest lesson for me

353
00:16:54.519 --> 00:16:58.159
from a brand a business perspective was stay authentic to

354
00:16:58.200 --> 00:17:01.240
who you are and find the peace people that that matches,

355
00:17:01.480 --> 00:17:03.919
rather than trying to change your authenticity to try and

356
00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:07.039
you know, find these people that it's never meant for

357
00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:10.759
them anyway, So you know, really honing that message and

358
00:17:11.799 --> 00:17:13.960
staying true to your authenticity, which I know is such

359
00:17:13.960 --> 00:17:16.759
an overused word, especially in brand building, but it is,

360
00:17:16.920 --> 00:17:19.079
so who is meant to find you will find you

361
00:17:19.119 --> 00:17:21.559
when you're being authentic, otherwise you'll be left a little

362
00:17:21.599 --> 00:17:22.240
bit high and dry.

363
00:17:22.279 --> 00:17:24.279
I think who is meant to find you when they're

364
00:17:24.279 --> 00:17:26.000
meant to find you is going right back to that

365
00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:28.720
faith over fear thing, isn't it. It's like that really,

366
00:17:29.000 --> 00:17:31.480
like just trusting that if you are who you are,

367
00:17:32.160 --> 00:17:33.440
they will find you.

368
00:17:33.799 --> 00:17:36.759
Absolutely, And I think that's I think the word manifestation

369
00:17:36.920 --> 00:17:41.519
has you know, really been bastardised in this day and age.

370
00:17:41.519 --> 00:17:43.960
But I think the truth about manifestation is literally just

371
00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:46.799
a when you're your one hundred percent truth, when you're

372
00:17:46.839 --> 00:17:50.519
living that and showing up as that, then you attract that,

373
00:17:50.640 --> 00:17:52.599
and you attract what is meant for you. So until

374
00:17:52.599 --> 00:17:55.720
we can find that within ourselves and really drop into that,

375
00:17:55.720 --> 00:17:58.839
that's that's true manifestation. It's not you know, holidays and

376
00:17:58.920 --> 00:18:00.759
dream houses stuck on a pin board.

377
00:18:00.839 --> 00:18:03.559
That's like elementary level manifestation.

378
00:18:03.759 --> 00:18:07.240
So I think going within and stripping away all these

379
00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:09.480
things that we think we're told we're meant to be

380
00:18:09.640 --> 00:18:11.480
like or you know check boxes where it told we

381
00:18:11.559 --> 00:18:13.920
meant to meet someone at this age and have kids

382
00:18:13.920 --> 00:18:15.599
at this age, and do this with business and.

383
00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:16.160
All these things.

384
00:18:16.160 --> 00:18:19.519
I'm like, no, Like, what's your framework and live that

385
00:18:19.880 --> 00:18:22.680
with the entirety of your truth, and then what is

386
00:18:22.720 --> 00:18:23.240
meant for you?

387
00:18:23.640 --> 00:18:26.119
Can find you much easier with.

388
00:18:26.079 --> 00:18:28.720
That whole topic of coming back and listening to your

389
00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:33.440
intuition and the signals that we get from our body.

390
00:18:34.480 --> 00:18:36.599
There's another area where you were getting signals from your

391
00:18:36.599 --> 00:18:40.160
body which you were largely ignoring in terms of your health.

392
00:18:41.480 --> 00:18:44.079
And I'm curious to have that conversation with you as well,

393
00:18:44.119 --> 00:18:47.279
because you know from what you wrote it was always

394
00:18:47.319 --> 00:18:49.839
prioritizing there was a meeting, or there was an obligation,

395
00:18:49.960 --> 00:18:51.759
or there was a pressure or there somewhere you had

396
00:18:51.799 --> 00:18:56.039
to be, and so you were always pushing aside. There's

397
00:18:56.720 --> 00:19:00.079
fairly loud calls from your physical body telling you that

398
00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:04.039
it needed some attention. With the benefit of hindsight, now,

399
00:19:04.119 --> 00:19:06.640
I guess, can you reflect on that and do you

400
00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:09.359
think it's an individual because I mean, that's a common issue.

401
00:19:09.359 --> 00:19:12.039
There's a lot of people doing that. But is it

402
00:19:12.079 --> 00:19:16.000
an individual striving and personal work ethic and a values

403
00:19:16.119 --> 00:19:18.720
kind of hierarchy, or do you reckon that's a reflection

404
00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:20.839
of just the society that we live in that is

405
00:19:20.920 --> 00:19:25.880
so obsessed with productivity and achievement and doing an output.

406
00:19:26.359 --> 00:19:28.319
I think it's accumulation of them all.

407
00:19:28.519 --> 00:19:31.880
I think, especially as a female, I think we're often,

408
00:19:32.319 --> 00:19:35.359
you know, juggling so much that innately we always put

409
00:19:35.359 --> 00:19:37.319
ourselves last because we're like, oh well, if I put

410
00:19:37.319 --> 00:19:39.559
myself last, I'm not going to disappoint anyone else.

411
00:19:39.680 --> 00:19:40.680
Is our thought process?

412
00:19:40.720 --> 00:19:42.599
I think so, And you know, no one likes to

413
00:19:42.640 --> 00:19:46.039
disappoint anyone, So that makes sense on one level. But

414
00:19:46.079 --> 00:19:48.960
then once we hit that wall or collapse onto the

415
00:19:49.000 --> 00:19:52.000
floor or whatever it is, whatever that burnout is, I'm like,

416
00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:54.559
you're not really good to anyone when you're in that state.

417
00:19:54.799 --> 00:19:58.200
So yeah, and you know even now, so the journey

418
00:19:58.240 --> 00:20:00.519
that you're talking about with was with endemetri cirosis, and

419
00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:02.839
I put it off for I was getting signs from

420
00:20:02.839 --> 00:20:05.279
my body and my body was whispering to me at

421
00:20:05.279 --> 00:20:08.359
first telling me that something's not right, and I ignored

422
00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:10.559
it and numbed it and just put it off, put

423
00:20:10.559 --> 00:20:12.599
it off, and took me about five years to get

424
00:20:12.599 --> 00:20:14.960
myself into a specialist office. And you know, it was

425
00:20:15.039 --> 00:20:19.519
quite a gruesome, you know, uncovering when I actually found

426
00:20:19.559 --> 00:20:20.319
myself in the oh ah.

427
00:20:20.880 --> 00:20:22.079
And you know, i'd like.

428
00:20:22.039 --> 00:20:24.680
To say that was that operation was a year ago now,

429
00:20:24.799 --> 00:20:26.480
and I'd like to sit here now and be like,

430
00:20:26.480 --> 00:20:28.480
you know, I really listened to my body. I learned

431
00:20:28.480 --> 00:20:31.079
so much from it, which I did, hand on my

432
00:20:31.119 --> 00:20:33.680
heart did. But even now I find myself, you know,

433
00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:36.400
exhausted at times to be like, oh, you know, I

434
00:20:36.480 --> 00:20:38.200
just got to get through this and then I'll get

435
00:20:38.240 --> 00:20:41.839
to that later kind of thing. So I think in hindsight, now,

436
00:20:43.279 --> 00:20:45.680
while I definitely listen to my body and I action

437
00:20:45.839 --> 00:20:49.960
her calls much much quicker, I'm still guilty of putting

438
00:20:49.960 --> 00:20:52.880
it on the elusive or do it when I get

439
00:20:52.880 --> 00:20:53.799
to a kind of list.

440
00:20:54.480 --> 00:20:57.599
Yeah. I guess that's another work in progress, isn't it

441
00:20:57.640 --> 00:20:58.400
for all of us?

442
00:20:58.599 --> 00:20:58.839
Yeah?

443
00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:06.400
It is progress, Yeah, Samantha. Getting back to the business journey, you,

444
00:21:07.119 --> 00:21:09.200
as you said, you started the Bondai markets. I mean,

445
00:21:09.240 --> 00:21:13.039
it is such a fabulous story, and it became really successful,

446
00:21:13.920 --> 00:21:15.680
and then it got to a point where you couldn't

447
00:21:15.880 --> 00:21:18.079
do it on your own anymore, and you brought on

448
00:21:18.119 --> 00:21:21.279
a broad on a business partner. I'm curious to talk

449
00:21:21.319 --> 00:21:24.599
to you about how important it was for you to

450
00:21:25.119 --> 00:21:29.799
ask for help and balancing that with letting go to

451
00:21:29.880 --> 00:21:34.119
some degree of control when it was your baby, your brand,

452
00:21:34.160 --> 00:21:37.839
your name all over it, so that looking for help

453
00:21:37.880 --> 00:21:41.359
but also having to let go a little bit, how

454
00:21:41.359 --> 00:21:42.319
did you balance that?

455
00:21:43.400 --> 00:21:44.599
I think they're looking for help.

456
00:21:44.680 --> 00:21:49.079
One is I don't know why we're so closed network

457
00:21:49.319 --> 00:21:51.519
in those type of moments of myself included where you're

458
00:21:51.519 --> 00:21:53.799
like I can't tell anyone I'm failing or I can't

459
00:21:53.799 --> 00:21:57.359
tell And I think your hand is often forced. As

460
00:21:57.440 --> 00:22:00.759
I think I've tried to communicate through the book, You'll

461
00:22:00.759 --> 00:22:04.119
only get so far by not living. You know what

462
00:22:04.279 --> 00:22:06.400
is meant for you, and if you're paying attention to

463
00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:09.319
the signs and whatever that is. And you know, along

464
00:22:09.359 --> 00:22:11.000
my journey, it was like, well, I was eighty thousand

465
00:22:11.039 --> 00:22:14.200
dollars in debt by that point. I literally, you know,

466
00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:16.160
I was eating baked bean jaffles every night. If it

467
00:22:16.200 --> 00:22:17.799
was a good week, I'd put cheese on them. That

468
00:22:17.960 --> 00:22:21.720
was like, we had absolutely no money. The bank rightly,

469
00:22:21.759 --> 00:22:24.960
so I wouldn't give me any more credit cards. And

470
00:22:25.279 --> 00:22:27.720
I'd gotten to the end of the line. And I think,

471
00:22:28.440 --> 00:22:33.680
whether it's frustration or whether it's exhaustion, whether it's getting

472
00:22:33.720 --> 00:22:35.759
tired of hearing the same thing come out our mouth

473
00:22:35.799 --> 00:22:38.480
over and over again, in whatever capacity that is, there

474
00:22:38.559 --> 00:22:40.680
is some kind of beauty and getting fed up with

475
00:22:40.720 --> 00:22:43.839
our own self, whether that's you know, being forced at

476
00:22:43.839 --> 00:22:45.880
the end of the line, or making excuses over and over,

477
00:22:45.960 --> 00:22:48.799
whatever it is. And at this point I had no

478
00:22:48.920 --> 00:22:50.759
choice but to ask for help. It was, you know,

479
00:22:50.839 --> 00:22:52.559
it was forced upon me to ask for help. And

480
00:22:52.599 --> 00:22:54.359
I just told anyone who would listen, I was like,

481
00:22:54.640 --> 00:22:56.440
do you know anyone that might be wanting to get

482
00:22:56.519 --> 00:22:58.599
involved in a fashion brand? You know, I'm looking for

483
00:22:58.599 --> 00:23:00.799
a business plan. I just need someone that's business minded.

484
00:23:00.880 --> 00:23:03.480
And as I telling the story, you know, I met

485
00:23:03.920 --> 00:23:06.160
another person who I thought was going to take that

486
00:23:06.240 --> 00:23:08.880
role and signed a contract that was like, Okay, I's

487
00:23:08.920 --> 00:23:11.319
going to get me out of debt. And my vision

488
00:23:11.480 --> 00:23:16.160
was so small, it was so it was like I

489
00:23:16.319 --> 00:23:17.720
just I just need to get out of debt. Like

490
00:23:17.720 --> 00:23:19.440
I didn't look any further than that, so you know,

491
00:23:19.480 --> 00:23:23.519
it was it was very I often use the analogy

492
00:23:23.519 --> 00:23:25.160
of like if you look at a field mouse, and

493
00:23:25.160 --> 00:23:27.519
all the field mouse can see is this blade of grass.

494
00:23:27.559 --> 00:23:29.880
But then if you have an eagle, the eagle can

495
00:23:29.920 --> 00:23:32.000
see everything, but they might be you know, in direct

496
00:23:32.279 --> 00:23:34.519
line with each other. But as you move through business,

497
00:23:34.559 --> 00:23:37.319
your perspective needs to go from a field mouse, you know,

498
00:23:37.519 --> 00:23:39.200
all the way I guess up the food chain to

499
00:23:39.799 --> 00:23:43.079
have that eagle perspective. And at that time, I had

500
00:23:43.119 --> 00:23:45.920
only field mouse perspective and was like, okay, I just

501
00:23:45.960 --> 00:23:46.799
need to get out of debt.

502
00:23:46.839 --> 00:23:47.240
That's it.

503
00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:50.519
Signed the contract with him, unbeknownst to my I mean

504
00:23:50.559 --> 00:23:52.599
I knew, but you know, I didn't think about it

505
00:23:52.599 --> 00:23:54.799
too much. He wanted fifty one percent of the company,

506
00:23:54.799 --> 00:23:56.519
and I was like, no worries, that's fine, as long

507
00:23:56.519 --> 00:23:58.240
as it gets me out of debt. And this kind

508
00:23:58.240 --> 00:24:02.599
of desperation, and you know, serendipitously, the universe put someone

509
00:24:02.599 --> 00:24:05.000
else across my path, which went on to be my

510
00:24:05.119 --> 00:24:06.440
longtime business partner.

511
00:24:06.200 --> 00:24:09.240
And very dear friend who is through the book a lot.

512
00:24:09.559 --> 00:24:12.039
But yeah, it's tough, and I think you know, in

513
00:24:12.039 --> 00:24:14.839
regards to handing stuff over, it's a concert. Especially as

514
00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:17.240
a creative founder. It's a constant push and pull through

515
00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:20.599
that journey. But again, I think once you get when

516
00:24:20.640 --> 00:24:23.000
you're on your knees being like I can't go any further,

517
00:24:23.720 --> 00:24:25.759
you start to look at things a bit differently and

518
00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:27.480
you surrender over a little bit more.

519
00:24:27.519 --> 00:24:28.000
I think.

520
00:24:31.799 --> 00:24:35.119
I hope that you're enjoying this conversation and realizing the

521
00:24:35.119 --> 00:24:38.039
benefits of positivity in your own life. If you are

522
00:24:38.160 --> 00:24:40.880
enjoying the show, please be sure to like and subscribe

523
00:24:40.920 --> 00:24:43.559
so that you get notified when you apsdrop and head

524
00:24:43.559 --> 00:24:45.880
on over to Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen and

525
00:24:45.960 --> 00:24:55.720
leave us a rating and review. You mentioned that it

526
00:24:55.839 --> 00:24:59.039
was a bit serendipitous that Jeff, your business partner, came

527
00:24:59.079 --> 00:25:01.799
across your part and there's a lot of that through

528
00:25:01.839 --> 00:25:05.279
the book, that kind of serendipity, and I think that

529
00:25:05.640 --> 00:25:07.960
this goes back to that intuition kind of conversation we

530
00:25:07.960 --> 00:25:11.160
were having before about these signs from the universe is

531
00:25:11.240 --> 00:25:15.839
trusting and there's so many examples in your story about

532
00:25:16.319 --> 00:25:18.920
things just falling into place, but I think we have

533
00:25:19.000 --> 00:25:22.200
to be open to seeing those signs. I'd love to

534
00:25:22.200 --> 00:25:26.720
hear your take on that, on just the whole trusting

535
00:25:26.759 --> 00:25:27.400
the universe.

536
00:25:28.119 --> 00:25:30.680
Yeah, well, I mean I am a huge believer in

537
00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:33.000
this obviously. I think when things happen that are very

538
00:25:33.039 --> 00:25:35.400
obvious in the moment, you're like, oh, that's, you know.

539
00:25:35.279 --> 00:25:36.279
What a coincidence.

540
00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:38.960
And my entire belief system now is there is no

541
00:25:39.039 --> 00:25:42.480
such thing as coincidence. There's a beautiful line in The

542
00:25:42.519 --> 00:25:46.759
Alchemist where he says, if something happens once, it happens once,

543
00:25:46.799 --> 00:25:48.880
but if it happens twice, it's sure to happen a

544
00:25:48.920 --> 00:25:51.920
third time. And I was like, yeah, I can see

545
00:25:51.960 --> 00:25:54.680
that through my journey, where you know, when the universe

546
00:25:54.680 --> 00:25:57.039
will keep trying to present and trying to present, and

547
00:25:57.079 --> 00:25:59.400
then if you're not paying attention to her, she kind

548
00:25:59.400 --> 00:26:01.440
of slap you around a bit, whether that's in the

549
00:26:01.519 --> 00:26:05.000
form of you know, heartbreak, health, whatever it is.

550
00:26:05.039 --> 00:26:07.079
She tries to get your attention in different ways.

551
00:26:07.240 --> 00:26:11.880
And I think the thing and having the privilege to

552
00:26:11.920 --> 00:26:14.000
write this book and look back on my you know,

553
00:26:14.400 --> 00:26:17.079
almost two decades, I guess of my career to date.

554
00:26:18.519 --> 00:26:21.480
For so often I would hold on so tightly to things,

555
00:26:21.519 --> 00:26:23.839
like my idea of success was this, like all right,

556
00:26:23.880 --> 00:26:27.079
we're going to that pinpoint, Like that was the you know,

557
00:26:27.119 --> 00:26:30.119
the whole of success, and doing that, I kind of

558
00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:34.160
didn't see what was unfolding around me. Often because success,

559
00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:36.519
you know, can take in many forms where can be like,

560
00:26:36.559 --> 00:26:38.480
oh yeah, I want to go there, But the most

561
00:26:38.480 --> 00:26:42.319
beautiful journey might happen when we allow what is happening

562
00:26:42.359 --> 00:26:43.240
around us.

563
00:26:43.039 --> 00:26:46.480
And I think your idea of what not so much success.

564
00:26:46.519 --> 00:26:48.880
But like for me, I've ever been to at Bondi Markets,

565
00:26:48.880 --> 00:26:50.880
and I used to think, oh my gosh, if I

566
00:26:50.920 --> 00:26:53.720
had a retail store in Bondi, that was it, just

567
00:26:53.720 --> 00:26:56.559
one retail store, that would be the best thing to

568
00:26:56.640 --> 00:26:58.920
ever ever happen to me. Like I wasn't even thinking

569
00:26:59.359 --> 00:27:01.279
New York, I wasn't thinking sex in the city. I

570
00:27:01.319 --> 00:27:03.720
wasn't thinking all these things. And so I'm like, if

571
00:27:03.759 --> 00:27:06.920
my vision stayed at one retail store and Bondi, then

572
00:27:06.960 --> 00:27:09.640
I would have missed all these other incredible things that

573
00:27:09.720 --> 00:27:12.160
happened along the way. But the thing is that doesn't

574
00:27:12.160 --> 00:27:14.839
happen on our timeline, right, Like we have to put

575
00:27:14.880 --> 00:27:17.839
out what we wanted and do everything to be prepared

576
00:27:17.880 --> 00:27:20.200
for those opportunities. And I think that's one of the

577
00:27:20.200 --> 00:27:22.759
most beautiful I think the QBC thing, all the Rachel

578
00:27:22.839 --> 00:27:25.079
Zoe stories that I tell in the book, where I

579
00:27:25.079 --> 00:27:27.519
remember sitting in this tent, you know, in Fashion Week

580
00:27:27.759 --> 00:27:29.680
in New York and it was freezing cold, and I

581
00:27:29.720 --> 00:27:31.920
was like, wow, you know, watching Rachel Zoe present her

582
00:27:31.960 --> 00:27:34.599
collection on QBC. I was like, that would be amazing

583
00:27:34.680 --> 00:27:38.519
for us. And it happened eight years later, when you know,

584
00:27:38.559 --> 00:27:40.640
it was almost like I was in a different frame

585
00:27:40.680 --> 00:27:44.400
of mind then. But yeah, the timeline is not our own,

586
00:27:44.559 --> 00:27:46.319
so we have to surrender that over.

587
00:27:46.400 --> 00:27:50.039
I think surrender's a great word. How did you juggle

588
00:27:50.599 --> 00:27:54.599
your work and your personal life? You were so busy

589
00:27:54.680 --> 00:27:57.720
for so long, flying backwards and forwards between New York

590
00:27:57.920 --> 00:28:02.359
and Sydney that New York's like it's a shocker, Like

591
00:28:02.720 --> 00:28:03.359
la is.

592
00:28:03.519 --> 00:28:04.400
Really the reason.

593
00:28:05.799 --> 00:28:10.000
Across to New York is the worst And you did

594
00:28:10.039 --> 00:28:13.799
it every six weeks for years. Is it possible for

595
00:28:13.880 --> 00:28:17.519
us to have it all, Samantha.

596
00:28:16.480 --> 00:28:20.119
No, it's not, I think, and I say this in

597
00:28:20.119 --> 00:28:20.400
the book.

598
00:28:20.400 --> 00:28:23.160
I'm like, whoever came up with the concept of work

599
00:28:23.200 --> 00:28:28.000
life balance definitely was not a creative entrepreneur. So you

600
00:28:28.039 --> 00:28:31.799
know there is sacrifice, absolutely, you know, it's I don't know.

601
00:28:31.839 --> 00:28:35.400
I think as an entrepreneur, we traditionally link that word

602
00:28:35.480 --> 00:28:38.799
with work and in the say the olden days, but

603
00:28:38.880 --> 00:28:43.480
like previously, it's you meant to work nine to five

604
00:28:43.519 --> 00:28:45.519
and then you come home and you you know this.

605
00:28:45.559 --> 00:28:46.599
And then you got the weekends off.

606
00:28:46.640 --> 00:28:49.640
And obviously we're in a different world now and a

607
00:28:49.680 --> 00:28:53.799
lot more people are beautifully exploring the entrepreneurial journey. And

608
00:28:53.839 --> 00:28:56.799
I think, as an entrepreneur, like our whole thing, that

609
00:28:56.920 --> 00:29:00.640
is our passion, that is our sole purpose at whatever

610
00:29:00.680 --> 00:29:03.599
stage of that journey we're moving on. And I kind

611
00:29:03.599 --> 00:29:05.599
of lacking it to the way that if someone, for example,

612
00:29:05.640 --> 00:29:07.960
wanted to be an Olympic swimmer and they got up

613
00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:10.119
at three point thirty every morning and they trained five

614
00:29:10.160 --> 00:29:11.880
times a day and you barely saw them because they're

615
00:29:11.880 --> 00:29:14.359
always in the pool training, people wouldn't be like, oh,

616
00:29:14.400 --> 00:29:16.559
you work too much, like you need to slow down

617
00:29:16.599 --> 00:29:20.279
a bit they'd be like, you're so dedicated, good for you,

618
00:29:20.359 --> 00:29:23.200
like we're cheering you on. So I think we just

619
00:29:23.240 --> 00:29:27.720
need to reframe that concept of what balance actually is

620
00:29:27.759 --> 00:29:30.039
because I know, for me, if I wasn't working on

621
00:29:30.119 --> 00:29:32.599
creative projects or you know, I love, I love what

622
00:29:32.680 --> 00:29:35.680
I do, and for me, that's you know, it's way

623
00:29:35.720 --> 00:29:37.279
too cliche to be like, it's not work if you

624
00:29:37.319 --> 00:29:39.359
love what you do, But I don't want to just

625
00:29:39.400 --> 00:29:41.480
work nine to five on what I'm doing. Like, so

626
00:29:41.599 --> 00:29:44.799
I think that framework is different for everyone. Having said that,

627
00:29:44.880 --> 00:29:48.400
I think obviously listening to our bodies and when when

628
00:29:48.400 --> 00:29:51.240
they need rest, and you know, there's no point burning

629
00:29:51.279 --> 00:29:57.160
them out without rejuvenating ourselves. Also on that, I will say,

630
00:29:57.160 --> 00:29:58.839
you know, I get asked a lot, what's the one

631
00:29:58.880 --> 00:30:01.240
advice you would give to when and in business to

632
00:30:01.279 --> 00:30:03.599
not burn out? And the only advice that I can

633
00:30:03.640 --> 00:30:05.799
give with my hand on my heart honesty now is

634
00:30:06.200 --> 00:30:08.319
you will only not burn out once you've burnt out,

635
00:30:08.400 --> 00:30:11.440
because I think that that burnout really, you know, teaches

636
00:30:11.519 --> 00:30:14.160
you to look at what's important in your life, look

637
00:30:14.160 --> 00:30:16.599
at how you're spending your time and as such your energy,

638
00:30:16.960 --> 00:30:19.519
and then that makes it makes it a lot clearer

639
00:30:19.559 --> 00:30:21.799
when when you're kind of looking up from the hotel

640
00:30:21.880 --> 00:30:24.680
room floor, trying to breathe at times, but really, you know,

641
00:30:24.720 --> 00:30:26.599
assessing what is important in your life.

642
00:30:26.920 --> 00:30:27.119
Yeah.

643
00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:31.480
Yeah, as you became more successful too, just talking about

644
00:30:31.480 --> 00:30:34.880
that balancing of personal and professional life. Obviously you had

645
00:30:34.880 --> 00:30:37.759
a very big public role, you as the face of

646
00:30:37.799 --> 00:30:40.240
the brand, but there was all always stuff going on

647
00:30:40.319 --> 00:30:42.400
in your private life. And you know that could be

648
00:30:42.400 --> 00:30:44.880
said for anybody who has a job, I guess in

649
00:30:44.920 --> 00:30:47.920
the public eye. And that opened you up to a

650
00:30:47.920 --> 00:30:49.799
whole lot of criticism. And you talk in the book

651
00:30:49.799 --> 00:30:52.200
about a time when you were really struggling personally and

652
00:30:52.240 --> 00:30:54.519
you've been unwell and you'd lost a lot of weight,

653
00:30:54.559 --> 00:30:58.039
and then you were on the receiving end of a

654
00:30:58.119 --> 00:31:02.720
whole lot of people's opinions and fore back online. And

655
00:31:03.039 --> 00:31:06.519
I guess anybody again, the more successful people become, the

656
00:31:06.519 --> 00:31:10.160
more open to criticism they become. How did you manage

657
00:31:10.160 --> 00:31:12.480
to handle or what advice do you have to people

658
00:31:12.519 --> 00:31:16.839
about handling that kind of trolling? I guess yeah, I

659
00:31:16.880 --> 00:31:20.119
think it's and I mean, whether it's public facing or not.

660
00:31:20.279 --> 00:31:22.279
I think a lot of the time, you know, we

661
00:31:22.480 --> 00:31:26.279
as solopreneurs or as entrepreneurs. You're you can't call in

662
00:31:26.319 --> 00:31:27.920
sick to the boss because you are the boss. The

663
00:31:27.960 --> 00:31:30.799
world doesn't stop, you know, when we're experiencing grief or trauma,

664
00:31:31.000 --> 00:31:31.920
and I think that can.

665
00:31:31.880 --> 00:31:35.000
Be really, really difficult. Add to that a public.

666
00:31:34.680 --> 00:31:38.039
Elements, and I don't know, Like I remember reading the

667
00:31:38.039 --> 00:31:40.960
messages which I put into the book. I remember reading

668
00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:43.279
them at the time, and I think I was so numb.

669
00:31:43.519 --> 00:31:46.839
I was complete of body, mind and spirit, completely numb

670
00:31:46.839 --> 00:31:49.799
that they didn't even they didn't even reach me, like

671
00:31:50.079 --> 00:31:52.119
I read them obviously, but they just kind of bound.

672
00:31:52.160 --> 00:31:55.039
I just had no bandwidth at that point to even

673
00:31:55.160 --> 00:31:57.759
absorb them in, which I think, in some weird ways

674
00:31:58.000 --> 00:31:59.519
is kind of a blessing because some of them were

675
00:31:59.599 --> 00:32:03.039
quite off. But I think there comes a point when

676
00:32:03.240 --> 00:32:05.920
I think this is the internal work where you have

677
00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:10.920
to find a way to protect yourself and your spirit

678
00:32:11.319 --> 00:32:14.440
and whatever we have to do to do that. And

679
00:32:15.119 --> 00:32:17.519
I think that, you know, it's something internal where I

680
00:32:17.519 --> 00:32:19.599
don't know if I was visually to describe, it's almost

681
00:32:19.599 --> 00:32:21.920
like you have to wrap your your soul or your

682
00:32:21.960 --> 00:32:23.880
spirit in like this barrier.

683
00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:26.440
And I don't know, for some.

684
00:32:26.359 --> 00:32:28.200
Reason, now at this point in my career, like none

685
00:32:28.240 --> 00:32:30.480
of that even bothers me anymore, But there would have

686
00:32:30.480 --> 00:32:33.440
been a time earlier on when it absolutely would have

687
00:32:33.440 --> 00:32:36.920
crippled me. So I don't know the exact answer, but

688
00:32:36.960 --> 00:32:39.559
I think, you know, again separating fact from fiction and

689
00:32:40.079 --> 00:32:42.160
taking a step back, like imagine what it takes for

690
00:32:42.240 --> 00:32:45.440
someone to sit at a keyboard and type those type

691
00:32:45.440 --> 00:32:48.799
of words, like clearly they're not a very happy human being,

692
00:32:48.920 --> 00:32:51.359
or clearly that that's an issue that they've got with them,

693
00:32:51.599 --> 00:32:53.200
you know, And I'm sure it's not just you, the

694
00:32:53.640 --> 00:32:55.359
you know whoever they yell at, but it.

695
00:32:55.279 --> 00:32:57.200
Wasn't just me that were yelling at online.

696
00:32:57.240 --> 00:32:58.880
They would have you know, you see kind of names

697
00:32:58.920 --> 00:33:01.240
pop up of these abusive type of messages.

698
00:33:01.319 --> 00:33:04.240
So I think, you know, stepping.

699
00:33:03.839 --> 00:33:08.839
Back, keeping a really sound grounding around you and separating

700
00:33:08.880 --> 00:33:11.680
that it really really is not you because they can unfollow,

701
00:33:11.799 --> 00:33:13.119
but for whatever reason they don't.

702
00:33:13.279 --> 00:33:16.440
So that's a their issue, not a U issue.

703
00:33:16.599 --> 00:33:18.640
Samant that I know that you're on a tight time

704
00:33:18.680 --> 00:33:20.559
frame at the moment, So I've just got one more question.

705
00:33:20.640 --> 00:33:23.720
I mean, I guess the fast forwarding to the end

706
00:33:23.759 --> 00:33:25.720
of the Samantha Will's jewelry brand. I mean, you made

707
00:33:25.720 --> 00:33:30.400
a decision to actually close that business when you it

708
00:33:30.440 --> 00:33:32.680
was booming. I mean you were at the top of

709
00:33:32.720 --> 00:33:36.240
your game and you made the hard call to close it.

710
00:33:36.279 --> 00:33:38.480
And I really think this is so important and I

711
00:33:39.079 --> 00:33:44.599
love this because sometimes it is the quitting is something

712
00:33:44.920 --> 00:33:48.279
is the most important, the best thing to do. But

713
00:33:48.319 --> 00:33:51.799
where can get so hung up on what it means

714
00:33:51.839 --> 00:33:54.240
to quit or what it looks like or letting people

715
00:33:54.279 --> 00:33:56.839
down or feeling like a failure. How did you resolve

716
00:33:56.880 --> 00:33:59.759
that within yourself to make that decision.

717
00:34:00.400 --> 00:34:03.039
Well, again, I think it goes back to a framework

718
00:34:03.079 --> 00:34:05.599
that we've taken on that is not necessarily our own.

719
00:34:05.759 --> 00:34:08.320
Like I know that in my parents' era, there is

720
00:34:08.360 --> 00:34:10.400
no way that you would close a business that's making

721
00:34:10.440 --> 00:34:13.400
money because that's just it makes no logical sense. So

722
00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:15.760
I think we take on a lot of that framework

723
00:34:15.800 --> 00:34:19.719
from our parents, be it society, be it our schooling,

724
00:34:19.760 --> 00:34:23.000
whatever it is. And again, I think going back to

725
00:34:23.000 --> 00:34:25.880
the thinking, the feeling filter, and the thinking filter. So

726
00:34:25.920 --> 00:34:28.280
when I made the decision to close, and you know,

727
00:34:28.360 --> 00:34:31.239
I try and really articulate this in the book, that

728
00:34:31.280 --> 00:34:34.480
it was probably a two year discomfort within myself as

729
00:34:34.880 --> 00:34:38.519
a creative person, that my creative heart wasn't in it anymore.

730
00:34:38.559 --> 00:34:40.360
But I was like, oh, it's just a creative block.

731
00:34:40.480 --> 00:34:41.960
You know, this will pass. This will pass.

732
00:34:42.719 --> 00:34:45.559
And when it did, when I allowed space for the

733
00:34:45.599 --> 00:34:48.119
information to reach me that it is time to close.

734
00:34:48.159 --> 00:34:50.079
And was it something I'd ever even thought was an

735
00:34:50.079 --> 00:34:53.119
option before, Because you know, you ever so modestly name

736
00:34:53.159 --> 00:34:55.800
a brand after yourself, I'm like, this is my lot

737
00:34:55.840 --> 00:34:57.920
in life, Like this is you know, this is what

738
00:34:57.960 --> 00:35:02.800
I do. So I think that you know what I

739
00:35:02.840 --> 00:35:04.440
would do. When I made that this single, I was like, man,

740
00:35:04.440 --> 00:35:07.400
that's that's a big decision and it affects so many

741
00:35:07.480 --> 00:35:08.519
more people than just me.

742
00:35:08.760 --> 00:35:11.079
So I woke up every morning for two weeks.

743
00:35:11.079 --> 00:35:13.039
I didn't tell a single soul, and I woke up

744
00:35:13.039 --> 00:35:16.039
every morning and I asked myself how I felt about it.

745
00:35:16.159 --> 00:35:18.119
I didn't ask myself what I thought about it, because

746
00:35:18.159 --> 00:35:19.360
I knew if I was going to put it through

747
00:35:19.360 --> 00:35:22.079
the thinking filter, there was no logic to it. But

748
00:35:23.000 --> 00:35:25.440
you know, through the feeling filter, it felt like the

749
00:35:25.519 --> 00:35:27.199
right thing to do. And like I said before, you

750
00:35:27.199 --> 00:35:29.960
can't fake a feeling. And I think that you know,

751
00:35:30.079 --> 00:35:33.360
so much had gone into this brand from both myself,

752
00:35:33.400 --> 00:35:35.719
an incredible team of women and a few guys that

753
00:35:35.800 --> 00:35:38.559
worked on it over the fifteen years. And for me

754
00:35:39.760 --> 00:35:43.000
carrying on with it when my hands were creating drew

755
00:35:43.079 --> 00:35:46.280
but my heart wasn't. That was fraudulent to me, Like,

756
00:35:46.519 --> 00:35:48.679
I don't think that's really honoring what we had done.

757
00:35:48.760 --> 00:35:51.920
So to me, you know, walking away while it is

758
00:35:52.239 --> 00:35:54.360
at the top of its game was a much more

759
00:35:54.360 --> 00:35:59.239
beautiful way to honor that legacy. And but yeah, you're right, Like,

760
00:35:59.280 --> 00:36:01.840
I know logic, and I've had to argue with people

761
00:36:01.880 --> 00:36:03.519
they're like, it makes no sense. I'm like, I know,

762
00:36:03.599 --> 00:36:06.639
it doesn't make any sense, but it was. It felt

763
00:36:06.679 --> 00:36:08.159
like the right thing, and I know it's the right

764
00:36:08.199 --> 00:36:09.400
thing for me to do.

765
00:36:09.599 --> 00:36:12.679
So yeah, I love it, to be honest, And I

766
00:36:12.719 --> 00:36:14.159
actually I don't know if you know of it. A

767
00:36:14.199 --> 00:36:16.360
couple of years ago, when I first heard you close

768
00:36:16.440 --> 00:36:18.159
the business, I tried to get you onto the podcast

769
00:36:18.159 --> 00:36:21.159
to talk about exactly that. So I'm so thrilled to

770
00:36:21.159 --> 00:36:23.800
have the opportunity to talk to you now because I

771
00:36:23.840 --> 00:36:26.280
was contacting your management saying I need to talk to

772
00:36:26.320 --> 00:36:29.280
this woman because this is so important to trust yourself

773
00:36:29.320 --> 00:36:31.199
and to know when it's time to say no, to

774
00:36:31.519 --> 00:36:32.360
call it quits.

775
00:36:32.599 --> 00:36:36.159
Yeah, right right, Well I'm sorry that didn't happen then,

776
00:36:36.199 --> 00:36:38.360
but I think this is a much better conversation now.

777
00:36:38.440 --> 00:36:42.360
So yes, always always with that benefit of processing it

778
00:36:42.440 --> 00:36:46.960
and time to reflect. Samantha, I would encourage anybody to

779
00:36:47.000 --> 00:36:48.559
go and pick up the book. It is such an

780
00:36:48.599 --> 00:36:52.559
amazing success story but also your personal journey. There's something

781
00:36:52.559 --> 00:36:55.599
in there, creative entrepreneur or not. I think every woman

782
00:36:56.079 --> 00:36:59.239
will find something in there that really resonates with them,

783
00:36:59.639 --> 00:37:03.280
just at those important life lessons and trusting yourself and

784
00:37:03.320 --> 00:37:07.360
having faith. I seriously appreciate you taking the time to

785
00:37:07.400 --> 00:37:09.159
talk to me today. Thank you for being here and

786
00:37:09.199 --> 00:37:11.119
good luck with everything.

787
00:37:11.079 --> 00:37:12.719
Well, thank you so much, and thank you for your

788
00:37:12.760 --> 00:37:15.199
kind words. They mean a lot. It's been an absolute pleasure.

789
00:37:15.280 --> 00:37:15.679
Thank you.

790
00:37:18.840 --> 00:37:21.880
Samantha's memoir is called Of Gold and Dust. It's a

791
00:37:21.920 --> 00:37:24.760
great read and it is available now in all good bookstores.

792
00:37:24.800 --> 00:37:27.719
And you can find out about her online masterclass and

793
00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:32.760
creative workshops at her website Samanthawills dot com and you

794
00:37:32.800 --> 00:37:36.519
can follow her on Instagram at Samantha Wills. Of course,

795
00:37:36.639 --> 00:37:39.599
as always you can connect with me on Instagram. I'm

796
00:37:39.719 --> 00:37:43.480
at cast done underscore XO. If you enjoyed this episode,

797
00:37:43.519 --> 00:37:45.320
please be sure to leave us a rating and review,

798
00:37:45.519 --> 00:37:48.000
and I also love reading your feedback, so shoot me

799
00:37:48.039 --> 00:37:52.519
a message on Instagram or email hello Atkaston dot com.

800
00:37:53.119 --> 00:37:55.920
And my third book, Crappy to Happy Love Who You're

801
00:37:55.960 --> 00:37:59.920
With That is the Relationships Edition, is also now available

802
00:37:59.920 --> 00:38:02.440
in all Good bookstores. The link to order is in

803
00:38:02.480 --> 00:38:05.000
the show notes. I'll see you on the next episode

804
00:38:05.039 --> 00:38:05.960
of Crappy to Happy.

805
00:38:07.559 --> 00:38:10.280
Crappy to Happy is presented by Cash Dunn, produced by

806
00:38:10.360 --> 00:38:13.239
Davis Lensky, Audio production by Darcy Thompson.

807
00:38:16.960 --> 00:38:17.440
Listener