May 2, 2021

Living In Integrity with Martha Beck

Living In Integrity with Martha Beck
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Living In Integrity with Martha Beck
Living In Integrity with Martha Beck
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Season 6 Personal Growth & Healing Creativity & Self-Expression

Cass speaks with “Oprah Winfrey’s Life Coach” and bestselling author, Martha Beck about why she believes living in complete integrity is the only path to true happiness, peace and freedom. Martha explains how we abandon our true nature in order to fit in with our culture and the problems that arise when this happens and we find ourselves out of integrity. She shares advice for how to start being more honest with ourselves about why it’s so important that we do.You can buy her latest book The Way of Integrity here: https://tinyurl.com/vks5xtds
Connect with Martha at www.marthabeck.com
Follow her on socials:Facebook & Instagram: @themarthabeck
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Transcript
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A listener production. This is Crappy to Happy, and I'm

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your host cast Done. I'm a clinical and coaching psychologist,

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a mindfulness meditation teacher, and author of the Crappy to

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Happy books. In this show, I bring you conversations with interesting, inspiring,

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intelligent people who are experts in their field and who

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have something of value to share that will help you

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feel less crappy and more happy. Martha Beck is a

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Harvard trained sociologist. She's a life coach, and she has

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often been referred to as Oprah Winfrey's life coach. She's

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contributed to OH magazine for many years, and she's written

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several New York Times best selling books, including her most recent,

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which is called The Way of Integrity. Martha has a

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way of honoring both science and spirituality, which is something

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I love about her. She makes no secret of the

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fact that she's had some pretty magical experiences. She leaves

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it up to you to believe whatever feels true for you.

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And what I really enjoy about Martha is her humor.

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She's got a real wit about her in the way

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that she communicates very wise messages, and I think that

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you will enjoy that about her as well, Martha believes

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that living in integrity is the only way out of suffering,

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full stop, end of story. So I was delighted to

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have the opportunity to talk to her directly about what

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it means to live in integrity, what happens when we

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get out of integrity and why, and there's steps that

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we can all take to get back on track to

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living a life that is truly aligned with our values

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and our purpose so that we can all experience more

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joy and peace and freedom. In short, less crappy, more happy.

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Here's my chat with Martha. Martha, I was just saying

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to you off air that I first came across you

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when I read Expecting Adam. I think it was around

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two thousand and three. When did that.

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Book Actually, yeah, yeah, it was two thousand and four,

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I think it, yes.

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Two thousand and four, which which was all about your

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experience of pregnancy with a down syndrome child, which was

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obviously really life changing experience for you.

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Yeah. Yeah, I was getting a doctorate at Harvard, my

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third degree there, and I was, you know, thoroughly into

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the whole intellectual game, and then my second child was

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diagnosed at about six months of pregnancy, with Down syndrome,

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and even though I'm pro choice, it was like I'd

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already bonded to him so intensely that it made me

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reevaluate what is the meaning of a human life? And

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I decided that it was the ability to experience joy,

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And as best I knew, people with Down syndrome can

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experience joy as much or more than the rest of us.

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So he's Adam came along joined my life, and yeah,

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changed everything for the better.

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It feels like, I mean, that was my first introduction

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to you, But it is it fair to say that

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that is really what set you on this path that

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you have found yourself on. Now? Were you the whole

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life coaching? I don't know.

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I mean, I think I just I think I was

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just always destined to be to break out of culture.

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Like coin. I was raised very ambitious female in the

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most Mormon place in the universe. I don't even know

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if you guys even know what it's like to be

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a Mormon woman. I wrote a book about that where

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I said, and sorry if you're Mormon, but the only

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thing they require of women is that they breed well

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in captivity. Wow.

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So I was raised there.

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Then I went after Harvard, which is really different, had

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a child with an intellectual disability, went back to Utah,

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the center of Mormonism, and to become a lesbian. And

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then people ask me for advice to become a lesbian.

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Yeah.

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Well, and things happen.

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These things do happen. And it's been so interesting to watch,

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to watch your journey. And you've just written a new

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book which I have been loving, called The Way of Integrity,

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and I you know, throughout the book, you make a

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lot of references back to that time. I guess that's

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what made me. You know, I've been thinking about that

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book expecting Adam as well. You make a lot of

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reference to that time in your life.

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Yeah, especially early in the book, I kind of go

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through my whole life history of always, always, always deciding

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to do things that other people disapprove of.

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For good reason, for good reason, and we'll get to that.

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But I'm a total people pleaser. So it's been hell.

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I have to tell you that it gets to heaven,

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and I.

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Think that's that's exactly, and that's what I want to

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talk to you about. This is I do life coaching

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as well, and I do I started life coaching in

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two thousand and three, actually about shortly after I read

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your I read your book just as i was embarking

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on my coaching career, and I've since done my master's

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in clinical psychology, so I'm a clinical and coaching site.

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So I've worked with people in therapy and in coaching, right,

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so across the spectrum of people who who are experiencing suffering,

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you know, from the most mild dissatisfaction through to really

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big problems. Yeah, so, Martha, let's just get straight to

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the message of this new book, which is about living

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in integrity and how that is the way to joy

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and peace and freedom. What does it mean to live

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in integrity?

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Well, it's not a sort of prim virtue. I'm not

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into churches, not for a long time. But integrity it

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comes from the Latin integer, which just means intact, undivided whole.

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And we're all born that way. We're born completely united.

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All our hopes and dreams are sort of programmed into us.

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But almost as soon as we're born, we start getting

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pressure from people around us socialization culture of some kind

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of family culture, school culture, religious culture, whatever, and we're

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so programmed to earn social approval. It's a basic existential

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need for humans that tip before we could even talk.

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We sell out our nature to buy into what the

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culture wants of us. And so we're now not one

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thing integrity, but we're split in duplicity, which is two things.

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One of us is true or our true nature, and

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the other one is going with the culture. And I

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believe that all psychological suffering comes from that divide from

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the true self.

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So we have in a nature and then we ram

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up against culture essentially in many many ways. And I

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think you're right. I think I see this happen all

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of the time, and I think anybody listening would get

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that intuitively right. What are the signs that somebody is

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not living in integrity?

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Well, there are six in this book. I because I

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have always read Dante's Divine Comedy as my favorite self

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help book. Starting long ago in a very troubled childhood,

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I followed Dante through The Divine common as a journey

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from crappy to happy, right from suffering psychological suffering all

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the way to paradise. And he starts out he says,

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in the middle of my life, I came to myself

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in a dark wood, and I didn't know how I

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got there and I was afraid and it was awful

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and I didn't know how to get out. So he

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kind of opens with a midlife crisis and then he

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tries to just scramble out of it somehow, but instead

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he gets no matter what he does, things go wrong.

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And I call this dark Wood of Error syndrome. When

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you've lost the path of your life and you start,

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things just go wrong. So the first thing that happens

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to people there are six symptoms that I call the

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dark Wood of Error syndrome. The first thing is just

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losing your sense of purpose or not having a sense

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of purpose, like what is my life about? I don't

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even know what makes this worth it. The second one

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is that you start to have bad moods. You're sad, angry,

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irritable a lot, and it can go, as you said,

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from very mild to very intense. Then you get physical symptoms.

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There's a tremendous amount of research to show that when

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people depart from what's true for them, they immediately develop

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worse physical healths, those symptoms of all kinds, and then

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your relationships won't go right, your career decisions won't go right,

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and if you keep going, you may start to medicate

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yourself with something and create an addiction, which is a

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sixth symptoms. So when you've got a clutch of symptoms

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like that, you can pretty much bet you've lost your

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true nature, You've lost your integrity, and without ever intending

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to do anything wrong, you are now living split from

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yourself in duplicity.

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Yeah, I have no doubt that there's people listening going

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tick tick. I've been there, done that, I know what,

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and we've all been there, And do you feel like

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this is? You know that we journey in and out

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of some of that, you know, we could we sort

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of find our way back, and then we go off

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track again. It feels like it's a life's work.

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A lot of us are just sort of bonking around

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haplessly waiting for conditions to match our true nature. And

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when we accidentally get into a condition, a situation that

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is right for us, we feel good and we think, oh,

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everything's going well, and then the situation shifts and without

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even knowing it, were pulled away from ourselves. So, like

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I track in the book, I track a couple of

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people that I coached who were or three of them

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actually in the book, but they were really good at

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their jobs. Like there was a forest ranger park ranger

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who went and lived in the national forest and she

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was really good at her job. She wanted to do

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things politically to help nature, so she ran for city

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council and got elected, and then she developed this awful,

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embarrassing habit. She would fall sound asleep in every meeting

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and she could not keep herself awake, and it was

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just it was appalling and embarrassing, and she was miserable

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and she never she didn't understand it is because she

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wanted to be in nature. She didn't want to be

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in a meeting. Then there was a guy who loved

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to be a writer, but then he was promoted to

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be an editor and a manager at a magazine and

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he started drinking because it couldn't stand it. So these

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people get promotions, We get promoted, and it's all supposed

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to make us happy, but if it doesn't match our

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true nature, we unknowingly split ourselves even further. And then

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we're like, why why is everything? Why does everything suck?

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Yeah, exactly exactly, And you talk about that's culture, right,

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because culture says achieve more, get the promotion, get the

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pay rise, and we go for these things that we

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are conditioned are going to make us happy and ultimately

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than they don't.

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It never does. I mean I've had, you know, over

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the course of my career, I've coached people who are

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homeless on the streets, and I've coached people who are

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billionaires in penthouses. And I am here to tell you

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I've seen wealth, I've seen power, I've seen all the

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things that we think will make us happy. I've seen

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people who have achieved at the absolute epex, and they

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are as likely to be miserable as anyone else. In fact,

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I don't think I've worked with a really top achieving

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billionaire type who wasn't miserable really and they've got everything,

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They've got everything. And then you talk to somebody who's

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really really happy living a very ordinary life and is

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because it's true to their nature, and to me, that

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actually is far more desirable and leaves a legacy that's

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more powerful than being rich and powerful and miserable.

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You know what I see a lot, and I wanted

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to talk to you about this is people who say

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who they may be feeling purposeless and they're feeling dissatisfied,

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and now you know they're drinking too much or eating

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too much or whatever they're doing. And they say, but

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I've got a great job, and I've got a family,

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and I've got a nice house, and why can't I

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I should just be grateful. There's this sense of I

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should just be happy. I think that is really powerful

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thing that gets in the way because we deny what

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we really feel because we should be grateful, we should

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be happy.

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That's just anything. Whenever you're saying I should to myself,

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you are reflecting the culture's desires back inside your own head.

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Dante tries to get out of his dark wood by

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climbing this mountain that he calls Mountain Delectable, and it's

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all golden and shiny, and all the people are climbing it.

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But every time he tries to climb it, he's tired.

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They're a wild beasts. He's scared, he's depressed, he's irritable

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all the things happened to him. And then the ghost

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of the poet Virgil shows up and says, you know what,

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the only way out of here is through the inferno.

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So the second quarter of the book is about how

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if you are in the dark wood, you need to

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go inside to see. I see the inferno as a

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metaphor ferrari in ourselves and our inner demons. So Dante

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goes through and he talks to all these demons, each

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of us. If you have somebody in there screaming, a

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version of yourself screaming, you should be happy. You need

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to go meet that demon and question it until you

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can see past its lies, because it's lying to you.

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Anything you tell yourself that makes you suffer is going

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to turn out to be untrue. So he goes all

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the way through with the inferno, and then going the

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same direction, he passes the center of the earth and

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suddenly he's going up and he gets to go to

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up the mountain of purgatory where his actions have to

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match his new truth, and then he ends up in Paradise.

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Spoiler, I haven't got to that part of the book yet.

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I haven't got I haven't got to purgatory yet in

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the book.

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That's when you have to walk your talk. Therapy is

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all very well, don't you have a bunch of therapy

257
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addicts though, who are like they come to therapy every

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week for years, but they never actually change their lives.

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Well, there are differently people who do that. Yeah, for sure,

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the chronic advice askers, but not advice your takers.

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Yeah, now our seminar addicts, you know, and they go

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and they get I go to meditation retreats and they

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get their minds all clear. But ask them to do

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something their mother disapproves of and they just fall apart, right,

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I mean, And that's Dante comes out of the inferno

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and he's got to climb this mountain and at first

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it's really hard. And that's what it's like when we

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finally realized something's wrong for us, Like when all the

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doctors at Harvard and all my advisors told me that

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having a child with down center would ruin my life.

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They were putting as much as much pressure on me

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as they possibly could. And I had to get very

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honest and go in and look at my own beliefs

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and find out what made me tick. And then I

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had to go against everybody's advice, and then it was

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so difficult. That's why I sort of fled back to

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my home state to do my dissertation, because I thought, well,

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at least people will agree with my choice to keep

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the baby. And then I turned out to be gay

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and not believing in Mormonism at all, and so I

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became and I quote a hiss and a byword. They

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had just named the three greatest enemies of the Mormon

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Church in the latter days, and they were intellectuals, feminists,

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and gay people. And I was like, oops, sorry, let

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me just rethink this. I'm running for the border. So yeah,

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finally that cost me my family of origin, every friend

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i'd had before the age of seventeen or eighteen. I

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left my job, obviously, I left my marriage because it

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changed sexual orientation. It basically cleared the decks of my life,

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and it was really super hard. And yet it all

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happened during one year when I decided I wouldn't tell

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a single lie for a full calendar year, and I

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did not, and everything fell apart supposedly from the external perspective,

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but on the inside, I started getting healthier and happier

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than i'd ever been before, and I thought, hmm, this

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is really interesting. Everything was going wrong. I'm losing everyone

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and everything, and I feel better. Wow.

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You make it sound really really scary and challenging, which

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no doubt it is. Having tough conversations right and making

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hard decisions.

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I don't think most people are as far out of

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their integrity as I was. I mean, that's what I

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was joking a little bit when I said I was

304
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destined to be a misfit with the personality of a

305
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lap dog, like just just love me, I'll do anything

306
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you want. And then I didn't do the things that

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people wanted me to do. But most people have far

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less duplicity in their lives, right, you know, not everybody

309
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is a closeted gay person to themselves. Not everybody's gonna

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have to choose to have a child with Down syndrome

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in an intellectual environment or whatever, So it's not as scary.

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It probably won't be as scary for anyone out there.

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Oh and by the way I do it in the book,

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I've spent thirty years figuring out how to do this

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gradually and gently instead of basically just throwing myself into

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a volcano. So I hope it's a gentler thing. But yeah,

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it is scary.

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I hope that you're enjoying this conversation and realizing the

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benefits of positivity in your own life. If you are

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00:17:20.119 --> 00:17:22.839
enjoying the show, please be sure to like and subscribe

321
00:17:22.880 --> 00:17:25.200
so that you get notified when you EPs drop and

322
00:17:25.279 --> 00:17:27.720
head on over to Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen

323
00:17:27.759 --> 00:17:37.000
and leave us a rating and review. I wanted to

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00:17:37.000 --> 00:17:40.119
pick up on you spending a year without telling any lies.

325
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I've been listening to Tara Browk too Radical self honesty,

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so it's like half the time I think, mostly we

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don't even realize necessarily that we're lying to ourselves. That's

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the challenging part, right, how do we start getting really

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honest with ourselves?

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Well, one of the things I talk about in the book,

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which is a spoiler, I can't use this in public speaking,

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but there's no public speaking anymore, so it's okay. I

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speak a lot in public and I used to stop

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00:18:09.359 --> 00:18:11.799
in the middle of his speech and say is everyone comfortable?

335
00:18:12.319 --> 00:18:16.400
And people would say yeah, and I'd really say, no, seriously,

336
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are you comfortable. They'd say, yes, we're completely comfortable. Get

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00:18:20.359 --> 00:18:22.839
on with your speech, and then I would say, how

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00:18:22.880 --> 00:18:25.359
many of you, if you were home alone, would be

339
00:18:25.440 --> 00:18:28.160
sitting in the position you're sitting in right now, And

340
00:18:28.200 --> 00:18:30.400
of course not a hand would go up, and I

341
00:18:30.400 --> 00:18:32.279
would say why not? And they would just sit there,

342
00:18:32.319 --> 00:18:35.960
going what And then someone would figure out, oh, this

343
00:18:36.200 --> 00:18:40.200
isn't really that comfortable. And that's not the problem. They

344
00:18:40.200 --> 00:18:44.200
weren't in that much pain. The problem is that they

345
00:18:44.240 --> 00:18:47.759
truly believed at one level that they were completely comfortable,

346
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and they absolutely knew at another level that they were

347
00:18:51.480 --> 00:18:55.599
not comfortable. And that's what you're talking about. This It

348
00:18:55.799 --> 00:19:00.400
happens so subtly, and it happens so early, and it's

349
00:19:00.599 --> 00:19:04.759
so pervasive in the culture that whatever our culture is,

350
00:19:05.200 --> 00:19:08.279
that we don't know we're split until we start to suffer.

351
00:19:09.000 --> 00:19:13.319
So the sooner you can notice your own discomfort. My

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00:19:13.440 --> 00:19:17.319
motto is cave early, you know, because the further you

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00:19:17.359 --> 00:19:20.519
go into duplicity, the more you'll suffer. Suffering is our

354
00:19:20.519 --> 00:19:23.000
greatest ally. Well, it will not allow us to lie

355
00:19:23.039 --> 00:19:25.799
to ourselves indefinitely, and it will get worse and worse

356
00:19:25.799 --> 00:19:27.960
and worse until you sit down and say what is

357
00:19:28.039 --> 00:19:31.480
actually going on? And if you look at your own

358
00:19:31.519 --> 00:19:34.119
feelings with honesty and you go to Cass, who is

359
00:19:34.160 --> 00:19:37.079
a coach and a therapist, she will help you figure

360
00:19:37.119 --> 00:19:40.400
it out. You'll figure it out because your feelings and

361
00:19:39.720 --> 00:19:43.680
your body everything is designed to help lead you to

362
00:19:43.720 --> 00:19:44.240
your truth.

363
00:19:44.799 --> 00:19:48.079
And that's the key, isn't it. Because we are also

364
00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:52.279
like we will do anything to avoid suffering. Oh yeah,

365
00:19:52.359 --> 00:19:55.519
we will reach for the food or switch on Netflix,

366
00:19:55.559 --> 00:19:58.400
or have a drink, or stay busy, keep on running,

367
00:19:58.680 --> 00:20:04.240
anything to avoid aid, stopping and really looking hard and sitting.

368
00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:07.640
I mean, I teach mindfulness that sitting with that discomfort

369
00:20:07.640 --> 00:20:10.720
and being willing to open yourself to what you might

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00:20:10.839 --> 00:20:11.440
learn from that.

371
00:20:13.640 --> 00:20:16.759
Yeah, Pascal said, the source of all our misery is

372
00:20:16.799 --> 00:20:19.440
that we're unable to sit quietly alone in a room.

373
00:20:20.640 --> 00:20:22.720
And that is really all you have to do. It's

374
00:20:22.799 --> 00:20:25.359
not that complicated. The first time I tried it, when

375
00:20:25.359 --> 00:20:27.039
I was twenty three, I thought I will learn this

376
00:20:27.119 --> 00:20:30.319
weird thing called meditation. I was going to Japan, and

377
00:20:30.359 --> 00:20:33.240
I sat down, and within three minutes I had a

378
00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:36.640
raging fever. My throat had almost closed. I was having

379
00:20:36.640 --> 00:20:42.759
like an anaphylactic reaction to my own like inactivity. And

380
00:20:42.839 --> 00:20:44.920
I literally jumped up to my feet and said, I

381
00:20:44.920 --> 00:20:47.240
will never do that again. And now, of course I

382
00:20:47.319 --> 00:20:48.960
meditate at least an hour a day.

383
00:20:48.839 --> 00:20:52.960
So exactly, And that's it. I'm glad that you said that,

384
00:20:53.000 --> 00:20:55.319
because I think a lot of people who could benefit

385
00:20:55.359 --> 00:20:58.039
so much from sitting quietly with themselves in a room

386
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are the ones who will do anything to avoid it,

387
00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:02.599
or they tell themselves that I can't do this, or

388
00:21:02.599 --> 00:21:04.680
this is not for me, or I just I've got

389
00:21:04.680 --> 00:21:07.960
one of those minds that doesn't doesn't get me right,

390
00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:08.200
you know.

391
00:21:08.599 --> 00:21:10.319
But what you said a minute ago, we'll do anything

392
00:21:10.359 --> 00:21:12.640
to avoid suffering. We eat, we drink, we keep busy.

393
00:21:12.680 --> 00:21:15.319
But the thing is, it doesn't avoid suffering. Before we

394
00:21:15.359 --> 00:21:17.880
know it, our lives are falling apart because we're alcoholics,

395
00:21:17.960 --> 00:21:20.240
or we never sleep, or we're just you know, like

396
00:21:20.319 --> 00:21:23.319
I was. By the time I took that vow not

397
00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:27.720
to lie for a year, I was almost completely incapacitated

398
00:21:27.759 --> 00:21:31.119
by autoimmune diseases. You know. I was in a back

399
00:21:31.160 --> 00:21:34.079
brace I had, I couldn't use my hands. I was

400
00:21:34.279 --> 00:21:38.000
a complete wreck. I was depressed, I was anxious, and

401
00:21:39.799 --> 00:21:43.000
just learning not to lie fixed it all, just in

402
00:21:43.039 --> 00:21:44.160
a very dramatic way.

403
00:21:44.599 --> 00:21:47.240
I think that's such an important point too, because there

404
00:21:47.240 --> 00:21:49.839
are so many people who experience all of these physical

405
00:21:49.880 --> 00:21:52.200
ailments and would never necessarily or would take a long

406
00:21:52.279 --> 00:21:53.359
time to make that connection.

407
00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:57.559
Yeah, and yet I mean there's one study I said

408
00:21:57.599 --> 00:21:59.759
in the book where people were just asked to lie

409
00:21:59.759 --> 00:22:02.200
alone less for a few weeks, and there was no

410
00:22:02.240 --> 00:22:04.480
one checking on them. They just said, okay, that sounds

411
00:22:04.519 --> 00:22:07.640
like a plan. So they came back and compared to

412
00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:10.759
a control group, they had fewer doctor's visits, they had

413
00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:15.279
fewer symptoms of illness, their mood was better, their relationships

414
00:22:15.319 --> 00:22:18.079
were going better, every they were performing better at work

415
00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:20.759
because they had just said, Okay, I'll lie a little

416
00:22:20.839 --> 00:22:25.279
less for a couple of weeks. It's incredible how powerful

417
00:22:25.880 --> 00:22:30.839
integrity or oneness wholeness is for every system in our body,

418
00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:33.000
our mind, our soul. It's amazing.

419
00:22:33.160 --> 00:22:36.839
Yeah, I wanted to talk to you about. So when

420
00:22:36.880 --> 00:22:39.400
we're in integrity, you know what's in our true in

421
00:22:39.440 --> 00:22:41.559
our mind and our heart and our body. When we

422
00:22:41.640 --> 00:22:43.799
listen to ourselves and we I really feel like it's like,

423
00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:47.599
you know, giving ourselves ultimate self care right and giving

424
00:22:47.599 --> 00:22:51.799
ourselves what we need in any moment. The people that

425
00:22:51.880 --> 00:22:54.240
I work with, and I work mostly online and in

426
00:22:54.279 --> 00:22:56.720
groups and things these days rather than one on one,

427
00:22:56.759 --> 00:23:02.079
but women particularly, I've got all of these stories about

428
00:23:02.119 --> 00:23:04.960
how selfish it is, how they can't take time for themselves.

429
00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:07.319
It would be they're too busy, and I mean legitimately

430
00:23:07.319 --> 00:23:09.759
some of them have got little kids at their feet.

431
00:23:09.839 --> 00:23:11.920
You know, but there's all of these things that get

432
00:23:11.920 --> 00:23:17.200
in the way, but mostly it's guilt about doing something

433
00:23:17.240 --> 00:23:18.400
that feels good for them.

434
00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:23.319
Yeah. Yeah. The culture really leans hard, especially on women,

435
00:23:23.880 --> 00:23:27.119
to give up our happiness for ourselves to make other

436
00:23:27.119 --> 00:23:30.680
people happy, which basically sets them an example. It sets

437
00:23:30.680 --> 00:23:35.640
our kids the example of abandoning their true selves because

438
00:23:35.640 --> 00:23:37.400
that's what they see us doing. So as to do

439
00:23:37.519 --> 00:23:40.279
as I say, not as I do, your kids will

440
00:23:40.279 --> 00:23:42.640
treat themselves the way you treat yourself, not the way

441
00:23:42.640 --> 00:23:46.519
you treat them. But the culture is always pressuring people.

442
00:23:46.559 --> 00:23:48.880
It pressures men to like, you have to have a

443
00:23:48.880 --> 00:23:52.039
certain type of living and you can't leave this job.

444
00:23:52.119 --> 00:23:55.960
And I mean there are tremendous pressures on people in

445
00:23:56.039 --> 00:23:59.960
any situation. There literally is no social situation that is

446
00:24:00.079 --> 00:24:02.519
not pressuring people to leave their true selves at least

447
00:24:02.559 --> 00:24:05.319
a little bit. But what you just said about I

448
00:24:05.359 --> 00:24:08.519
can't do this, I have to do that if you

449
00:24:08.640 --> 00:24:12.519
change nothing else. Don't use the phrase I have to

450
00:24:12.720 --> 00:24:16.839
or the phrase I can't unless they're literally true, because

451
00:24:16.880 --> 00:24:22.319
they're almost always culture. They're almost always lies, Like I

452
00:24:22.400 --> 00:24:24.400
have to go to my mother's party, I can't hurt

453
00:24:24.440 --> 00:24:27.200
her feelings. Oh yes, you physically can go to your

454
00:24:27.240 --> 00:24:30.119
mother's party and you definitely can hurt her feelings. She'll

455
00:24:30.119 --> 00:24:32.960
tell you that all the time. I mean, she won't

456
00:24:33.039 --> 00:24:35.799
like it, but you can do it. The moment you

457
00:24:35.839 --> 00:24:38.119
stop those two lies I have to and I can't,

458
00:24:39.200 --> 00:24:42.039
It's like you're holding two bars up to your own

459
00:24:42.079 --> 00:24:44.480
face and pretending it's a prison window. One says I

460
00:24:44.480 --> 00:24:46.559
have to when one says I can't. And just dropping

461
00:24:46.640 --> 00:24:51.440
those two phrases from your vocabulary, that will set you

462
00:24:51.519 --> 00:24:54.960
free to do things completely different ways, and you can

463
00:24:55.039 --> 00:24:57.599
start doing more self care. You can start to feel

464
00:24:57.599 --> 00:25:00.119
what you're feeling and feel what you feel. I know

465
00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:02.720
what you know, say what you mean, and do what

466
00:25:02.759 --> 00:25:05.319
you really believe is right. That's integrity.

467
00:25:06.160 --> 00:25:08.359
I tried that for the first time last night. You'll

468
00:25:08.359 --> 00:25:10.880
be proud of me, Martha. I had to go to

469
00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:13.400
listen to me had to. I was booked in to

470
00:25:13.480 --> 00:25:16.640
attend an information evening at my daughter's school because she's

471
00:25:16.680 --> 00:25:19.640
going to senior and they're planning pathways, and you know,

472
00:25:20.079 --> 00:25:22.720
we were all supposed to go. She didn't want to go,

473
00:25:23.079 --> 00:25:25.240
Nobody wanted to go, and I was like, well, but

474
00:25:25.799 --> 00:25:28.119
we have to go, Like we have to go, and

475
00:25:29.359 --> 00:25:32.640
in the end I did go, but I changed. I

476
00:25:32.759 --> 00:25:35.119
questioned myself, I said, I actually don't have to go.

477
00:25:35.119 --> 00:25:35.680
Good for you.

478
00:25:36.400 --> 00:25:38.839
There's a lot of people not going, and I could

479
00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:41.799
get this information somewhere else, but it's important for me

480
00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:43.759
to go, and that's why I'm choosing.

481
00:25:44.319 --> 00:25:46.400
I'm choosing to go. That's the truth.

482
00:25:46.839 --> 00:25:49.839
It shifted my whole energy about the whole thing.

483
00:25:50.039 --> 00:25:53.799
Yeah, yeah, yeah, they've shown Actually one of the therapists who

484
00:25:53.880 --> 00:25:57.559
trained me way back I had done all her research

485
00:25:57.599 --> 00:26:01.799
around using literally true language and how it sets us free.

486
00:26:01.799 --> 00:26:04.400
Because the moment you start to see I've chosen to

487
00:26:04.400 --> 00:26:07.119
do this instead of I have to do this, you've

488
00:26:07.119 --> 00:26:10.680
not only made yourself more honest, you have taken yourself

489
00:26:10.680 --> 00:26:13.599
out of the victim role. And there's a whole place

490
00:26:13.720 --> 00:26:17.920
where Dante really in the Divine Comedy, he actually identifies

491
00:26:17.960 --> 00:26:20.359
that the thing that makes us most angry and violent

492
00:26:20.839 --> 00:26:23.920
is feeling like a victim. So there's a whole segment

493
00:26:23.920 --> 00:26:26.480
of the Divine Comedy that says you can get out

494
00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:29.119
of rage and violence by it knowing that you have

495
00:26:29.640 --> 00:26:32.119
the free will to choose your own path, and that

496
00:26:32.160 --> 00:26:35.319
thing right there, it puts all the responsibility for your

497
00:26:35.319 --> 00:26:37.759
life in your own lab but it also sets you free.

498
00:26:38.480 --> 00:26:41.480
And that's a really powerful turning point was for me

499
00:26:41.559 --> 00:26:43.480
in my life, and I hope it is for people

500
00:26:43.519 --> 00:26:44.319
who read the book.

501
00:26:45.079 --> 00:26:46.359
Yeah, I have no doubt it will be.

502
00:26:46.480 --> 00:26:46.759
Yeah.

503
00:26:46.799 --> 00:26:48.359
Well, I was thinking as I was reading a book

504
00:26:48.359 --> 00:26:52.279
about the people who are drawn to work situations, particularly

505
00:26:52.279 --> 00:26:55.359
professions that they truly feel cool to. So the people

506
00:26:55.400 --> 00:27:00.119
who go into medicine or law or whatever. No, not

507
00:27:00.359 --> 00:27:03.720
before the prestige and the status, but because they genuinely

508
00:27:03.759 --> 00:27:06.359
called to do good work in the world. They've got,

509
00:27:06.519 --> 00:27:09.640
you know, really want to do heal people and make

510
00:27:09.680 --> 00:27:14.000
things right. And then they get into that situation and

511
00:27:14.119 --> 00:27:17.720
they find themselves in this again culture. But you know,

512
00:27:17.799 --> 00:27:21.519
in a workplace that they get bound up having to

513
00:27:21.519 --> 00:27:25.279
deal with bureaucracy, or there's a toxic culture, or there's

514
00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:27.960
you know, bullying and hierarchy and all of these things

515
00:27:28.000 --> 00:27:31.799
that suck the joy out of that. So how do

516
00:27:31.960 --> 00:27:36.279
those people stay in integrity in the you know what

517
00:27:36.359 --> 00:27:38.920
I mean, in that sort of environment that really sucks

518
00:27:38.920 --> 00:27:39.400
the joy?

519
00:27:40.079 --> 00:27:42.240
Yeah, Well, you have to make a choice whether to

520
00:27:42.279 --> 00:27:44.400
do it your own way and let the chips fall

521
00:27:44.480 --> 00:27:47.839
where they may or to leave the system like I

522
00:27:47.920 --> 00:27:50.839
left Mormonism. I didn't. There was no way I was

523
00:27:50.880 --> 00:27:53.160
going to change that, and so the system was just

524
00:27:53.920 --> 00:27:56.759
too toxic to my truth and I had to leave.

525
00:27:57.319 --> 00:27:59.519
I just worked with about one hundred doctors. We did

526
00:27:59.759 --> 00:28:03.960
a virtual seminar, and it was so interesting how many

527
00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:06.880
of them were in that kind of toxic culture, and

528
00:28:07.240 --> 00:28:11.079
they were choosing to do medicine in different ways. And

529
00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:16.160
actually the pandemic gave us this backhanded gift of saying,

530
00:28:16.480 --> 00:28:18.799
rethink the way you do work, because the way we

531
00:28:18.839 --> 00:28:21.799
typically work is based on a factory model, which has

532
00:28:21.839 --> 00:28:24.880
only existed since the Industrial Revolution. But you know, we

533
00:28:24.960 --> 00:28:28.400
put kids at desks, same age, same work that was

534
00:28:28.559 --> 00:28:33.200
meant to create factory workers. The school system, and everything's

535
00:28:33.279 --> 00:28:35.359
run as if it's a factory. You go to a place,

536
00:28:35.400 --> 00:28:37.519
you put things together, you work, you see the other

537
00:28:37.519 --> 00:28:43.440
people you're working with. But information can be traded electronically,

538
00:28:43.519 --> 00:28:48.279
and so much of any profession can happen in different ways.

539
00:28:48.359 --> 00:28:51.960
Now people have the power to give information to a

540
00:28:51.960 --> 00:28:55.839
whole like to billions of people. One hundred years ago

541
00:28:55.880 --> 00:28:57.920
that would have taken the wealth of kings, and now

542
00:28:57.960 --> 00:29:01.440
anyone can do it. So there are new creative ways

543
00:29:01.480 --> 00:29:04.200
to do things. And once you free yourself and you

544
00:29:04.240 --> 00:29:07.240
get back into integrity. I compare it to an airplane.

545
00:29:07.640 --> 00:29:10.640
When it's in structural integrity, all its parts work together

546
00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:14.599
and it can fly. If it falls out of integrity,

547
00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:17.680
if its parts aren't working correctly and they're not engaged,

548
00:29:17.759 --> 00:29:22.200
it will crash. So your life will crash. To give

549
00:29:22.200 --> 00:29:25.839
you the gift of reassembling yourself in structural integrity, and

550
00:29:25.880 --> 00:29:27.359
then I promise you can fly.

551
00:29:28.359 --> 00:29:31.599
And that leads me to when we've done all this

552
00:29:31.720 --> 00:29:34.079
hard work and ask ourselves the hard questions and how

553
00:29:34.119 --> 00:29:37.079
the difficult conversations and set the boundaries and all of

554
00:29:37.079 --> 00:29:42.799
those things like what becomes available, Like what's the prize

555
00:29:43.079 --> 00:29:43.559
matha for?

556
00:29:44.319 --> 00:29:49.079
Oh my gosh, the world just opens itself to you.

557
00:29:49.079 --> 00:29:51.440
You know, I did this. I used to go on

558
00:29:51.759 --> 00:29:54.599
while I'm on an integrity cleanse where I try to

559
00:29:54.640 --> 00:29:57.240
cleanse away anything that is not integrity. So it's been

560
00:29:57.359 --> 00:30:00.400
five years since I took my most recent no life

561
00:30:00.079 --> 00:30:02.920
I vow and I've slipped a few times, but not

562
00:30:03.039 --> 00:30:08.279
very often. So I just did this integrity cleanse that

563
00:30:08.319 --> 00:30:10.920
I'm on for the last five years because I wanted

564
00:30:10.960 --> 00:30:14.039
to get down to the actual, like scientific truth. I

565
00:30:14.079 --> 00:30:17.400
was a little frustrated by all the New Age magical,

566
00:30:17.640 --> 00:30:20.480
like all you think it and it will appear. Well,

567
00:30:20.920 --> 00:30:23.920
then everyone would win the lottery, So what's the truth?

568
00:30:24.559 --> 00:30:28.319
I was trained well to look at actual truth evidence,

569
00:30:28.880 --> 00:30:30.839
So I just said, I'm gonna go on a really

570
00:30:30.920 --> 00:30:35.200
really rigorous integrity cleanse, and I just started telling the

571
00:30:35.240 --> 00:30:38.599
absolute truth to myself and everyone else, and a lot

572
00:30:38.640 --> 00:30:40.720
of Again, there was a lot of reshuffling in my life,

573
00:30:40.759 --> 00:30:45.279
and then like all these crazy magical things started happening

574
00:30:45.319 --> 00:30:50.759
to me, the very things that I had thought were fictitious.

575
00:30:50.799 --> 00:30:53.240
And Dante says the same thing. He gets to Paradise,

576
00:30:53.319 --> 00:30:57.240
where all he's in harmony. Now every part is working together,

577
00:30:57.640 --> 00:31:00.319
and he says, you will not believe what happens next,

578
00:31:00.319 --> 00:31:05.000
so stop reading, and that He's like, okay, all right, UK,

579
00:31:05.519 --> 00:31:10.279
here's what happens. And suddenly, like everything he thinks about

580
00:31:10.400 --> 00:31:13.680
is instantly brought to him. He's surrounded by beings of

581
00:31:13.759 --> 00:31:18.240
love and light. You know, he ends up magically being

582
00:31:18.279 --> 00:31:20.759
wherever he wants to go. And it felt like that

583
00:31:20.839 --> 00:31:24.079
to me as I got more and more into total integrity,

584
00:31:25.160 --> 00:31:27.759
crazy like wild animals would come up to me. It

585
00:31:27.799 --> 00:31:30.200
was it's been crazy and it still is. I mean,

586
00:31:30.200 --> 00:31:34.400
it's it's magical. It's magical. Integrity takes you to a

587
00:31:34.480 --> 00:31:35.279
magical place.

588
00:31:35.799 --> 00:31:38.640
I think there is so many magical things available if

589
00:31:38.680 --> 00:31:41.160
we're open to seeing them too, you know, like it's

590
00:31:41.400 --> 00:31:47.079
when you start to notice those synchronicities and those coin

591
00:31:48.680 --> 00:31:50.519
and you pay attention and they happen.

592
00:31:50.279 --> 00:31:52.559
More and more and more. Can I tell you one?

593
00:31:52.799 --> 00:31:55.119
I'll let me tell you one, okay, please. So fifteen

594
00:31:55.200 --> 00:31:59.839
years ago, through Special Olympics because of my son, I'm

595
00:32:00.079 --> 00:32:04.079
at Maria Shriver, who is the she's the niece of

596
00:32:04.200 --> 00:32:07.839
like John F. Kennedy and her mother started Special Olympics.

597
00:32:07.839 --> 00:32:10.960
She was the first Lady of California. Anyway, we got

598
00:32:11.000 --> 00:32:13.160
to know each other and one day we sat and

599
00:32:13.160 --> 00:32:15.279
we said, I said to her, we should make a

600
00:32:15.359 --> 00:32:17.720
vision board. And she was like, oh please, And I

601
00:32:17.759 --> 00:32:20.599
was like no, we're both feeling like unsure about where

602
00:32:20.599 --> 00:32:22.279
our lives are going. We need to make vision boards.

603
00:32:22.279 --> 00:32:24.359
And she was just she was so she humored me.

604
00:32:25.200 --> 00:32:27.319
We sat down with all these magazines. We're going to

605
00:32:27.440 --> 00:32:29.279
cut out pictures and put them on a board. All

606
00:32:29.279 --> 00:32:32.079
the things we wanted she just kept going through magazines

607
00:32:32.119 --> 00:32:34.559
and she said, you know, I've had a very full life.

608
00:32:35.039 --> 00:32:37.960
What appeals to me is the poet room. He says,

609
00:32:38.039 --> 00:32:40.720
out beyond judgments of right doing and wrong doing, there

610
00:32:40.839 --> 00:32:43.559
is a field. I'll meet you there. And she cut

611
00:32:43.559 --> 00:32:46.559
out this picture of just an open field, and she said,

612
00:32:46.599 --> 00:32:48.680
that's the open field. And she put a horse in

613
00:32:48.759 --> 00:32:51.359
there because she loves She loved her horse when she

614
00:32:51.400 --> 00:32:54.519
was growing up, so she just put the open field

615
00:32:54.559 --> 00:32:58.200
on it. Fifteen years later, I had sold this book

616
00:32:58.279 --> 00:33:00.839
and written it and was in the process of publishing

617
00:33:00.880 --> 00:33:05.599
it when Maria got her own imprint at the publisher

618
00:33:05.720 --> 00:33:10.599
that was publishing my book, and she is now the publisher,

619
00:33:10.640 --> 00:33:14.599
and I want you to see the imprint the open

620
00:33:14.640 --> 00:33:19.079
field of and both of us are just like, how

621
00:33:19.119 --> 00:33:21.400
the hell did that happen? Like it's not like we

622
00:33:21.559 --> 00:33:24.640
planned this out. The way it all came together was

623
00:33:24.799 --> 00:33:28.279
so mind blowing. But I'm telling you, it's everything works

624
00:33:28.319 --> 00:33:31.200
that way when you're in integrity. It's crazy. You don't

625
00:33:31.200 --> 00:33:35.680
need magic. When you realize how reality works, it's amazing,

626
00:33:35.960 --> 00:33:37.680
it's amazing, but it's.

627
00:33:37.759 --> 00:33:42.400
True integrity, right, Like it's not just that I think

628
00:33:41.799 --> 00:33:44.319
if what I think about will magically be like what

629
00:33:44.319 --> 00:33:46.160
I'm saying, it's not.

630
00:33:46.200 --> 00:33:50.079
Really getting messing over all kinds of you know, places

631
00:33:50.079 --> 00:33:53.119
where we're split from ourselves. And here's what I say

632
00:33:53.160 --> 00:33:56.359
in the book, this is what I think. The moment

633
00:33:57.240 --> 00:33:59.599
we ask for something that is truly heartfelt, and I

634
00:33:59.599 --> 00:34:02.319
don't care if you're three years older, thirty, or ninety,

635
00:34:03.519 --> 00:34:06.160
the universe immediately sends it to you. The answer is

636
00:34:06.200 --> 00:34:08.320
always yes, and it always gets sent right to you.

637
00:34:08.480 --> 00:34:12.800
But the one phrase that I have found rings the

638
00:34:12.880 --> 00:34:15.400
chime of truth in people's hearts more than anything else

639
00:34:15.440 --> 00:34:18.239
that I've ever tried, is I am meant to live

640
00:34:18.400 --> 00:34:22.880
in peace. I've asked murderers, I've asked beggars, I've asked billionaires.

641
00:34:23.760 --> 00:34:26.559
I am meant to live in peace. Everyone feels like, well,

642
00:34:26.800 --> 00:34:31.960
that feels true. So when the universe answers your prayers

643
00:34:32.039 --> 00:34:35.559
or whatever, it sends your stuff to your real home address,

644
00:34:35.599 --> 00:34:40.840
which is peace. If it sent everything to desperation, you'd

645
00:34:40.880 --> 00:34:43.079
just be motivated to stay in desperation. And that's not

646
00:34:43.119 --> 00:34:45.519
what we're meant to do. We're meant to find peace.

647
00:34:46.360 --> 00:34:51.440
So one sentence in the book is piece is are home.

648
00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:55.360
Integrity is the path to it, and everything you long

649
00:34:55.480 --> 00:34:59.239
for will meet you there. That's what I think, that's

650
00:34:59.320 --> 00:35:00.000
my experience.

651
00:35:01.159 --> 00:35:03.639
I love that. I just wanted to quickly. I saw

652
00:35:03.679 --> 00:35:08.000
Maria Shriver post something on her Facebook page just last

653
00:35:08.079 --> 00:35:10.960
night for the supermoon, talking about the energy of the supermoon,

654
00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:12.960
and people were saying, Maria, we've never seen this sight

655
00:35:13.000 --> 00:35:16.039
of you before, this magical, mystical, and she was like,

656
00:35:16.079 --> 00:35:17.480
this is who I am.

657
00:35:17.719 --> 00:35:21.079
Yeah, and she is. She's a tough customer, like she

658
00:35:21.159 --> 00:35:24.599
does not buy into any old fluffy thing, but you know,

659
00:35:24.920 --> 00:35:27.679
she lives in integrity. I mean, she is one of

660
00:35:27.719 --> 00:35:30.320
my examples in my life of somebody who has come

661
00:35:30.320 --> 00:35:37.039
into such integrity despite tremendous pressure, and so magic happens

662
00:35:37.079 --> 00:35:37.920
to her all the time.

663
00:35:38.559 --> 00:35:40.199
What is the one thing that you would like people

664
00:35:40.199 --> 00:35:42.559
to apart from by the book, which I would recommend.

665
00:35:42.559 --> 00:35:45.840
And I've never read Dante's Divine Comedy, but I feel

666
00:35:45.880 --> 00:35:47.760
like I want to read it just hearing you talk

667
00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:49.400
about it. But I don't think it would be as

668
00:35:49.719 --> 00:35:51.679
enjoyable a reader as your version.

669
00:35:51.960 --> 00:35:55.519
It's difficult to decode. He uses a lot of like

670
00:35:55.599 --> 00:35:57.320
fourteenth century metaphors that are like.

671
00:35:57.360 --> 00:36:03.119
I love your version. It's and and it's very it's

672
00:36:03.280 --> 00:36:06.039
very entertaining too. You have a wit and a way

673
00:36:06.360 --> 00:36:11.400
of sharing ideas in a way that are very accessible

674
00:36:11.440 --> 00:36:14.360
and very entertaining to read. So I thank you Martha

675
00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:16.039
for the book. And I was going to say, what's

676
00:36:16.079 --> 00:36:17.920
one thing you would like people to go away and

677
00:36:18.639 --> 00:36:20.880
do to take themselves closer to their own path of

678
00:36:20.880 --> 00:36:24.320
integrity after they listen to this episode.

679
00:36:24.599 --> 00:36:27.079
I just want to repeat something that the German poet

680
00:36:27.079 --> 00:36:31.000
Gurtez said once, which is, when you trust yourself, you

681
00:36:31.000 --> 00:36:35.039
will know how to live. It's really that simple.

682
00:36:35.880 --> 00:36:38.360
Thank you so much, Martha for your time today. This

683
00:36:38.440 --> 00:36:41.760
has been an absolute joy and I so appreciate you

684
00:36:41.840 --> 00:36:42.239
being here.

685
00:36:42.800 --> 00:36:46.159
The pleasure is all mine. I love the podcast and

686
00:36:46.199 --> 00:36:47.400
I love Australians.

687
00:36:51.719 --> 00:36:54.960
If you're like me and you've never read Dante's Inferno

688
00:36:55.119 --> 00:36:58.000
or The Divine Comedy, I highly recommend that you read

689
00:36:58.079 --> 00:37:01.360
Martha's version. It's called The Day of Integrity. It is

690
00:37:01.400 --> 00:37:05.320
both enlightening and entertaining. There is so much wisdom that

691
00:37:05.400 --> 00:37:08.119
she shares in that book. You can find out more

692
00:37:08.119 --> 00:37:11.639
about Martha at her website Marthabeck dot com, follow her

693
00:37:11.679 --> 00:37:14.679
on social media. She's on Facebook and Instagram. Of course,

694
00:37:14.760 --> 00:37:17.119
come over and say hi to me on Instagram. I'm

695
00:37:17.159 --> 00:37:21.320
cast done, Underscore XO, or visit my website cast done

696
00:37:21.760 --> 00:37:24.360
dot com. I look forward to catching up with you

697
00:37:24.480 --> 00:37:33.920
on the next episode of Crappy to Happy Listener