June 15, 2020

Love Your Guts with Steph Geddes

Love Your Guts with Steph Geddes
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Love Your Guts with Steph Geddes
Love Your Guts with Steph Geddes
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Season 5 Physical Health

In this special episode, Cass Dunn is joined by nutritionist Steph Geddes. Together they explore the role of gut health in your physical, mental and psychological wellbeing. Steph shares some of the signs you might have a problem with your gut health and lots of ideas about what you can do to improve it.  Connect with Cass:www.crappytohappypod.comhello@crappytohappypod.com 
www.instagram.com/crappytohappypodwww.tiktok.com/crappytohappypod
Join the free 7-day Happiness Challenge:www.cassdunn.com/happiness

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www.instagram.com/cassdunn_xo

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Email: hello@crappytohappypod.com
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Transcript
WEBVTT

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A listener production.

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Hey guys, you're listening to Crappy to Happy. I'm cast done.

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I'm a clinical and coaching psychologist, mindfulness meditation teacher, and

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author of the Crappy to Happy books. In this series,

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I introduce you to interesting, inspiring, intelligent people who are

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experts in their fields, with the hope that the insights

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and experiences that they share can help you to feel

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a whole lot less crappy and more happy. Today, I

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am talking to step Getty's on the topic of good

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gut health. Steph is a clinical nutritionist, a self proclaimed foodie,

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and owner of Bodygodfood dot com dot au. She specializes

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in turning all of her nutrition know how into amazingly

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delicious recipes and you can find some of those on

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her website. And Steph is due to have a baby

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very very soon, so I am thrilled that we were

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able to get her in for this chat before she

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heads off on maternity leave. And I also wanted to

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get this episode out to you now because right now,

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we are understandably all really focused on building the healthiest

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immune system that we possibly can, and one of the

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ways to do that is by focusing on the health

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of your gut Here is my chat with step Steph,

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thank you so much for being with me today. This

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topic is one that we have wanted to cover on

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the podcast for a really long time, so I'm really

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glad that we were able to catch you before you

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disappear on Maternity Lead. Yes, so thank you so much

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for your time, my pleasure, and look, I just want

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to get straight into this. We al sort of have

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this awareness of the importance of gut health, but I

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think really we don't fully know what that means. So

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can you just start by giving us a general overview

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for the listeners about why all of the focus and

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the attention on gut health specifically.

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Sure.

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Well, I suppose part of the reason why it's probably

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become such, you know, more of a mainstream thing at

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the moment and a lot of people are talking about

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it is because we've got some incredible research coming out

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about it, and even then, we're still in our infancy

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with that. But some of the stuff that's coming out

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is just linking gut health to so many other aspects

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of our health that we've now realized, Wow, okay, this

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really is important and this is something that people should

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really be aware of and should be focusing on when

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I say that, and we'll talk about this a bit more,

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But it's not necessarily you know, specific things that we

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need to be doing and supplements and products we need

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to be taking. It's just you know, general lifestyle habits.

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But I think it is just more about having that

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awareness about how important your gut is linked to other

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aspects of health as well.

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So on that what are the other health aspects like

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what are the implications I guess or what are the

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consequences of not having good gut health?

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Yeah, well, some of the preliminary research at the moment

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is showing that it's related to things such as your

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immunity because a lot of your immune sales actually sit

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within your gut, even things like how we store fat,

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how we regulate blood glucose, control your appetite, your digestion obviously,

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but there's also some incredible links to mental health and

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your mood as well, because our neurotransmitters, which are our

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I suppose chemicals that relate to your feelings and emotions,

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about seventy to eighty percent of them also produced in

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your gut as well, So and it can also have

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something to be determining your risk of disease as well.

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And as I said, this is a really early research,

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but it's incredible stuff that we now know which we

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can use to help, you know, shape people's diets, but

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also just their lifestyles as well.

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That's fascinating.

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I obviously am really interested in the psychology stuff, the mood,

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food length, so I will come.

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Back to that.

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But when you say it's just general lifestyle stuff, so

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what are the sorts of things that will have a

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like negatively affect your gut health? Like why why might

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somebody have poor gut health?

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Yeah?

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So, look, there's many different reasons, and you know, as

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a nutritionist, diet is obviously one of them, and I think, personally,

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I think a very important one.

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But you can't forget other things.

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Like just simply stress or sleep or exercise, or use

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of medication or antibiotics.

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Because essentially, what our.

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Gut health is it's our makeup of bacteria, microorganisms that

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live in our gastruline testinal tract. Now, what we know

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is that there's no sort of one prescription that everybody

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should have. You know, you don't need to have this

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much of this bacteria and this much of this much

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essentially a third of what's in our gut is common

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for everyone, but two thirds is always going to.

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Be individual to everybody.

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Right, So instead of going, okay, well everyone needs to

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aim to have this kind of set prescription of bacteria,

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it doesn't really work like that. It more works like

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the more diversity and the more variety and the more

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richness of that good bacteria that we have, the better,

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And that's going to look different for everybody. So what

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gut health might be for me is very different to

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what it is even for other people in my family

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or just an anyone else, you know, any individual really,

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So how we know whether your gut is functioning properly

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comes down to more about how it's performing rather than anything.

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So someone who might have poor gut health could experience

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any kind of symptoms from you know, obviously very much

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your digestion related symptoms, so things like bloating or a

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lot of gas, or stomach pains, irregular bowel movements, reflux,

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all of that sort of thing, but it can also

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be things like skin problems or you know, mood shifts

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and mental health things. So there's so many different ways

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that poor gut health can kind of show itself, and

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essentially what we need to look at is go, okay, well,

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we know that gut health isn't about having a set

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prescription of bacteria. We just want to make sure that

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it's functioning properly so that we're not experiencing a lot

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of those symptoms which a lot of people think of

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normal symptoms and put up with, particularly I think the

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gas ruinetestinal symptoms like bloating and things like that, when

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they're not necessarily normal and you don't.

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Have to put up with that.

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You just reminded me. I had a conversation with a

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friend a few years ago. I think it was either

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myself or my husband was having back pain, and she

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was all, it's your gut.

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You've got to go and look up.

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She was obviously doing all of this reading and research

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about gut health at the time, and she was saying, no, honestly,

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you've got to look after your gut because it's linked

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to all of these you know, physical pains and joint problems.

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Is there research around that as well. Is that linked

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to inflammation or something?

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Yeah, definitely inflammation. So essentially, when you have.

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Poor gut health, there can be a lot of inflammation

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in that area. I no, Yes, can that extend to

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further inflammation in the body, Like, absolutely it could. But

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what we also know that it's chronic inflammation that causes

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a lot of problems for us. So it's you know,

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a little bit of acute inflammation in the body is normal.

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Like for example, if you were having back pain and

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it was just for a couple of days, it might

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just be Okay, well we've you know, strained something or

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done something there there's a bit of inflammation. Yeah, the

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body knows then to heal that area, and that's all fine.

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But it's when we have that chronic inflammation. And we

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definitely know that when you have poor gut health, there

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can be a lot of inflammation there. So there's so

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many different things that it can possibly be linked to.

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And as I said, the research is still coming out,

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but I think it just really goes to show that

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working on your gut health is never going to be

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a bad thing.

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Essentially.

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Yeah, right.

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Can I ask you the word that we keep hearing

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and I don't really quite understand what it is, the microbiome,

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Like what is the microbiome?

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So your microbiome is essentially your makeup of bacteria and

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its genetic material. So it's like a little mini ecosystem

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in your body. So think of all the bacteria that

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resides within you, and there's trillions of bacteria and its

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genetic material, so it's kind of the makeup of all

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of that. Now, we don't only just have bacteria in

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our guts or on gastrointestinal tract like, we even have

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it on our skin and in our gener regions, vagina,

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all that sort of stuff. There's lots of bacteria there

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as well, so it kind of encompasses everything.

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This is always sort of talked about as being like

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the key factor we all have to have a healthy

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micro biome.

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Yeah, that's just your makeup of bacteria. So when we

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talk about the composition of bacteria, that's pretty much what

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we're referring to. And when I say you want that

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diversity in variety and richness in bacteria, that's what we're

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always aiming for with a healthy microbiome.

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Yeah, all right, it's just for anybody listening, going, yeah,

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I keep hearing about this micro but I always just imagine,

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like this mushroom sitting in my stomach, and that's my microbiome.

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Like I don't know if.

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That's actually just a realistic kind of interpretation of what

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it is. It's like a colony, that's what you're saying, right,

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It's and what you said before, it's an ecosystem.

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Yes, yep, yep.

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So your microbiome is that ecosystem that all that bacteria.

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It's inclusive of all the bacteria yep.

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So for a listener somebody tuning in listening to this,

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going oh okay, so maybe there's an issue with my gup, Like,

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maybe that's what's going on. So what kinds of things

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might they be experiencing? You talked about bloating stuff like that,

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We talked about inflammation and pain. Are there other things

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that people might be experiencing that they don't necessarily link

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to a gut issue, like day to day sort of

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complaints and ailments and brain fog. I'm just thinking of

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all the kinds of things that people experience that they

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may not have necessarily associated with gut health.

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Like what should people be on the lookout for.

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Yeah, absolutely, Like we sort of talked about before it

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can even come through with skin problems, So inflammation in

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their skin like rashes or breakouts, things like that, you know,

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hormone problems. So, as I said before, like a lot

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of our hormones are produced in our guts. With our

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guts not functioning properly, and we're not producing the right

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balance of hormones, you might see shifts in your mood,

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or you might see other shifts in terms of you know,

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your menstrual cycle as well. Is that functioning properly. So

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there's lots of different things that may not be We

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can't prove that they're direct linked to what's going on

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in your gut, but we definitely notice that when we

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start working on that gut and building you know, a

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better bacterial balance there, and I suppose what a lot

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of people say is healing the gut as well. When

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we start doing that, we start to notice improvements in

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so many different areas, and I think particularly you know,

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things like mood and even depressive symptoms and things like that.

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There's some incredible research coming out around that and how

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that can be improved through working on your gut house

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as well.

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One other term that I have heard, I'm just going

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to hit you with all my gut questions because you're

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the gut expert.

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Leaky gut.

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What is is that something that is I mean is

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that what is it? I guess what is a leaky gut?

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What is leaky gut syndrome?

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Yeah, when you think about that, it really is meaning

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that there's leaks going on in your gut. So what

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can happen is when your gut is compromised or there's

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not good gut health going on. We've talked about how

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you can get a bit of inflammation in the gut,

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and what happens is the cells your gut should usually

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sit really tightly. They have these really tight junctions, so

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that stops things coming in and out which shouldn't be happening.

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So for example, food that's meant to be digesting, we

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want that to be digested. We don't want that leaking

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out of the gut into the bloodstream. Likewise, toxins and

237
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things it might be in the blood, we don't want

238
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that leaking into the gut either. But what can happen

239
00:11:23.240 --> 00:11:26.720
is when you do have that inflammation present, those tight

240
00:11:26.840 --> 00:11:30.120
junctions can actually start to separate a little bit and

241
00:11:30.159 --> 00:11:33.559
we can actually get a leaking going on, so things

242
00:11:33.600 --> 00:11:35.519
can be coming in and out of the gut which

243
00:11:35.600 --> 00:11:38.279
should not be happening. And that's where that causes that

244
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further inflammation in other areas of the body as well.

245
00:11:42.320 --> 00:11:44.879
And so I'm assuming that that is also linked to

246
00:11:45.080 --> 00:11:47.919
potentially correct me if I'm wrong, but that would be

247
00:11:48.000 --> 00:11:51.720
linked to not absorbing nutrients effectively.

248
00:11:52.240 --> 00:11:54.320
Yeah, yep, absolutely, because you can.

249
00:11:54.399 --> 00:11:56.600
I mean, the whole point of your having a healthy

250
00:11:56.639 --> 00:11:58.559
gut is that you can make the most of all

251
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those nutrients that you're getting and you can actually absorb

252
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them properly. But if you know food particles being essentially

253
00:12:06.639 --> 00:12:09.759
leaked out of the gut without being digested properly, then yes,

254
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you would be missing out on a lot of those nutrients.

255
00:12:12.440 --> 00:12:14.279
And so I know we're going to get to sort

256
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of what you can do to improve your gut health

257
00:12:17.000 --> 00:12:19.639
in a minute and diet, lifestyle factors, all of those

258
00:12:19.639 --> 00:12:22.000
sorts of things. But I have heard the leaky gut

259
00:12:22.480 --> 00:12:27.120
thing linked to gluten in some people. Is there evidence

260
00:12:27.120 --> 00:12:30.120
about that? Is there a gluten leaky gut link?

261
00:12:30.399 --> 00:12:30.639
Yeah?

262
00:12:30.720 --> 00:12:34.120
Yeah, so there can be so essentially with gluten, some

263
00:12:34.200 --> 00:12:36.639
people are going to be intolerant to gluten and some

264
00:12:36.679 --> 00:12:38.600
people aren't. So you can go as far as being

265
00:12:38.720 --> 00:12:42.559
celiac disease, where you actually produce like an immune response

266
00:12:42.600 --> 00:12:45.799
to gluten, whereas some people can just be intolerant. Now,

267
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gluten intolerance is one where some people really notice it

268
00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:52.559
and you can be quite unwell when you do have gluten,

269
00:12:52.919 --> 00:12:57.399
whereas others can actually go on without really noticing any

270
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physical symptoms. But it doesn't mean that it's not causing

271
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that underlying inflammation in the gut. So essentially what happens

272
00:13:04.960 --> 00:13:08.799
there is that that gluten protein causes that inflammation in

273
00:13:08.840 --> 00:13:12.039
the gut, and over time, if you're having repeated exposure

274
00:13:12.080 --> 00:13:14.240
to gluten and you're getting more and more inflammation there,

275
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that's when it can affect that permeability of the gut

276
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and we get that leaky gut happening. So yes, for

277
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a lot of people it could be related to gluten.

278
00:13:22.600 --> 00:13:24.799
Doesn't mean it is for everybody.

279
00:13:24.240 --> 00:13:27.600
Though, Yeah, right, so that's a really individual trial and

280
00:13:27.720 --> 00:13:29.720
error type thing, I guess definitely.

281
00:13:29.799 --> 00:13:31.919
Yeah, And you can get tested for that as well,

282
00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:34.559
so you can actually see what your tolerance to gluten

283
00:13:34.720 --> 00:13:38.320
is and that way. Unfortunately, with gluten intolerance, the only

284
00:13:38.320 --> 00:13:41.320
option you have is to avoid gluten at this stage.

285
00:13:41.559 --> 00:13:45.159
But in saying that, these days there's so many options

286
00:13:45.240 --> 00:13:47.600
for a gluten free diet. You know, it used to

287
00:13:47.679 --> 00:13:51.080
be quite uncommon to have all the different flowers and everything,

288
00:13:51.120 --> 00:13:53.279
all the different gluten free foods, but these days it's

289
00:13:53.320 --> 00:13:56.360
so well catered for that, you know, I think it's

290
00:13:56.639 --> 00:13:59.919
quite an easy transition once you educate yourself about being

291
00:14:00.120 --> 00:14:02.200
gluten free and avoiding gluten think.

292
00:14:02.240 --> 00:14:04.639
I mean, I run retreats, and you know, I always

293
00:14:04.639 --> 00:14:07.480
ask people to specify their dietary preferences.

294
00:14:07.840 --> 00:14:08.879
Was really interesting to me.

295
00:14:08.960 --> 00:14:10.639
At the last retreat that I ran, we had a

296
00:14:10.679 --> 00:14:14.519
few people who had indicated that they're gluten free, and

297
00:14:14.559 --> 00:14:17.200
then the chef, the caterer actually came out and she

298
00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:21.879
really made people be very specific about whether they are

299
00:14:21.919 --> 00:14:25.919
Celiac or whether they simply they have an intolerance, or

300
00:14:25.960 --> 00:14:28.840
if they just prefer to avoid gluten. And it was

301
00:14:28.919 --> 00:14:31.639
interesting because she had a whole separate toaster for the

302
00:14:31.679 --> 00:14:35.200
Celiac type people versus the people who I think are

303
00:14:35.240 --> 00:14:38.840
just preferring to be a bit maybe they have an intolerance,

304
00:14:38.919 --> 00:14:41.120
or some people say, oh, I just chose gluten free

305
00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:42.519
because I prefer to eat low carb.

306
00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:43.320
Like there's all of this.

307
00:14:45.559 --> 00:14:48.399
I don't know, crossovers and just people just dipping in

308
00:14:48.399 --> 00:14:49.519
and out of the gluten free thing.

309
00:14:49.559 --> 00:14:51.399
But for some people, obviously it's really serious.

310
00:14:51.840 --> 00:14:54.440
Definitely for celiacs, it's very serious and they can become

311
00:14:54.600 --> 00:14:57.600
very unwell from having gluten, Whereas, as you said, there's

312
00:14:57.679 --> 00:15:00.600
other sort of levels of intolerances. And so sometimes it's

313
00:15:00.639 --> 00:15:03.279
just people who say, you know what, I don't think

314
00:15:03.320 --> 00:15:05.320
my gut health is very good, or I'm working with

315
00:15:05.399 --> 00:15:07.759
a practitioner who's saying we should start working on my

316
00:15:07.799 --> 00:15:10.879
gut health. And sometimes one of the options is, okay, well,

317
00:15:10.960 --> 00:15:14.480
let's temporarily cut out gluten because it potentially might be

318
00:15:14.519 --> 00:15:17.480
causing some inflammation. And then obviously when you work with

319
00:15:17.519 --> 00:15:20.240
a practitioner down the track, they'll try and reintroduce foods

320
00:15:20.360 --> 00:15:21.399
and see what works.

321
00:15:21.159 --> 00:15:23.440
And what doesn't. But that might be a reason why

322
00:15:23.440 --> 00:15:25.000
a lot of people are avoiding it as well.

323
00:15:25.360 --> 00:15:29.200
It sounds like it's really important for people just to

324
00:15:29.240 --> 00:15:31.759
start with a level of self awareness, to even ask

325
00:15:31.799 --> 00:15:35.519
themselves the question could this be a gut issue versus

326
00:15:35.679 --> 00:15:39.320
is this just to do with I'm busy, I'm stressed,

327
00:15:39.559 --> 00:15:42.519
I'm any other thing that might be going on in life.

328
00:15:42.559 --> 00:15:45.000
Like it sounds like people have to really have an

329
00:15:45.000 --> 00:15:47.440
increased level of self awareness.

330
00:15:47.879 --> 00:15:50.559
Yeah, yeah, And look, I would say that's definitely something

331
00:15:50.600 --> 00:15:52.200
that we should all start to focus a bit more

332
00:15:52.200 --> 00:15:54.799
and if we are having any health problems, being a

333
00:15:54.840 --> 00:15:57.720
bit more aware about that, and perhaps even keeping something

334
00:15:57.759 --> 00:16:00.480
like a symptom diary where you know, so, of course,

335
00:16:00.519 --> 00:16:02.519
we all just have crappy days where we just feel

336
00:16:02.519 --> 00:16:05.080
off and we're not feeling great, or we've eaten something

337
00:16:05.120 --> 00:16:07.039
that we know doesn't you know, sit well with us,

338
00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:08.840
so we're feeling a bit bloated or whatever.

339
00:16:09.360 --> 00:16:10.799
But if these sorts of.

340
00:16:10.840 --> 00:16:16.000
Things happening consistently and regularly over time, keeping something like

341
00:16:16.039 --> 00:16:18.240
a symptom diary where you can actually keep track of

342
00:16:18.279 --> 00:16:21.440
these things, and then realizing, oh, okay, well this has

343
00:16:21.480 --> 00:16:24.279
actually been around for a little while now, and perhaps

344
00:16:24.320 --> 00:16:26.679
I need to start doing something to address this.

345
00:16:26.799 --> 00:16:27.039
Now.

346
00:16:27.440 --> 00:16:30.600
As I said, we don't know that it's directly linked

347
00:16:30.639 --> 00:16:32.799
to your gut health, but because we know gut health

348
00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:36.200
can have such implications for overall health, it is a

349
00:16:36.200 --> 00:16:38.440
good place to start and it's a good place to consider.

350
00:16:38.559 --> 00:16:41.080
So generally, what I would recommend is, if you get

351
00:16:41.080 --> 00:16:43.039
to that point you think, okay, let's try and maybe

352
00:16:43.120 --> 00:16:45.679
do something about this, go and book in with a

353
00:16:45.720 --> 00:16:48.879
practitioner because they can kind of explain it a little

354
00:16:48.879 --> 00:16:52.440
bit more to you. Some practitioners will even offer you testing.

355
00:16:52.919 --> 00:16:56.759
So there is testing available which essentially is going to

356
00:16:56.840 --> 00:17:01.120
look at your makeup of bacteria. So it's generally done

357
00:17:01.159 --> 00:17:04.440
from a fecal sample. So they'll take that, they'll look

358
00:17:04.440 --> 00:17:06.079
at all the bacteria and they kind of send you

359
00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:08.240
back a report of saying, okay, so you've got this

360
00:17:08.359 --> 00:17:11.000
much of this bacteria, this much of this bacteria. And

361
00:17:11.079 --> 00:17:13.359
as I said, we don't look at it and go okay,

362
00:17:13.400 --> 00:17:14.799
you don't have enough of this or enough of this.

363
00:17:14.880 --> 00:17:16.400
Or any kind of thing like that.

364
00:17:16.640 --> 00:17:19.240
I mean, it works more in a way of okay,

365
00:17:19.640 --> 00:17:23.519
we need more diversity of this bacteria. We mean more variety,

366
00:17:23.599 --> 00:17:27.599
more richness of that good bacteria. The problem with gut

367
00:17:27.640 --> 00:17:30.759
testing at the moment is that it's very expensive. So

368
00:17:30.799 --> 00:17:32.640
you know, it can be up to forty five hundred

369
00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:35.519
dollars for a test, and if you're going to do

370
00:17:35.599 --> 00:17:38.240
a test, you essentially then want to go on a

371
00:17:38.279 --> 00:17:40.680
protocol where you might start working on your gut health,

372
00:17:40.799 --> 00:17:44.119
changing your diet, changing a few lifestyle habits, and you'll

373
00:17:44.119 --> 00:17:47.599
want to retest at some stage. So when you consider

374
00:17:47.680 --> 00:17:50.880
that it ends up being a very expensive way to go.

375
00:17:51.160 --> 00:17:54.319
And like I said, our research is in such infancy

376
00:17:54.359 --> 00:17:57.160
at the moment that when you do actually get the

377
00:17:57.240 --> 00:18:00.200
test results back, a lot of the time, what happens

378
00:18:00.279 --> 00:18:04.759
is it says, Okay, this species was identified, but we

379
00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:09.519
don't know enough about this species yet. So what the

380
00:18:09.680 --> 00:18:13.359
testing I feel like is more about at the moment

381
00:18:13.480 --> 00:18:18.839
is actually the testing helps our labs understand more about

382
00:18:18.839 --> 00:18:21.480
these species and what's out there, and it helps them

383
00:18:21.559 --> 00:18:24.960
to build their research and their findings. But whether we're

384
00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:28.559
getting enough knowledge from that, it's hard to say at

385
00:18:28.559 --> 00:18:31.200
this point. I think it's definitely a good place to start,

386
00:18:31.200 --> 00:18:33.640
where you can go, Okay, well this is what my

387
00:18:33.720 --> 00:18:36.240
gut howth kind of picture looks like at the moment.

388
00:18:36.799 --> 00:18:39.000
I'm going to try these different things and can we

389
00:18:39.039 --> 00:18:41.359
then down the track see if it's making a difference.

390
00:18:41.960 --> 00:18:45.880
It can definitely work that way, but some practitioners might

391
00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:48.480
go or you might think, Okay, that's actually a bit

392
00:18:48.519 --> 00:18:51.880
too much of an investment to make at this stage. Instead,

393
00:18:51.920 --> 00:18:54.480
I'm going to keep track of my symptom diary, and

394
00:18:54.519 --> 00:18:56.519
I'm going to track of that over time while I

395
00:18:56.599 --> 00:19:00.200
make these changes and see how those symptoms change, and

396
00:19:00.319 --> 00:19:03.920
if they are changing, well great, perhaps that has been

397
00:19:04.160 --> 00:19:05.920
you know, much to do with what was going on

398
00:19:05.960 --> 00:19:08.000
in my gut, and now that I'm helping to fix that,

399
00:19:08.480 --> 00:19:10.480
those problems are starting to improve as well.

400
00:19:11.079 --> 00:19:14.319
That's so interesting that you mentioned that fecal sample testing,

401
00:19:14.319 --> 00:19:16.279
because I'm sure I was hearing a lot of talk

402
00:19:16.319 --> 00:19:20.000
about that, particularly in the US over the last twelve

403
00:19:20.079 --> 00:19:22.799
months or so. Is that sort of more readily available

404
00:19:22.880 --> 00:19:24.279
over there or is it cheaper?

405
00:19:24.559 --> 00:19:27.480
Is this an Australian thing that it's yeah.

406
00:19:27.160 --> 00:19:29.640
Yep, it is, Like obviously it's now very much available

407
00:19:29.640 --> 00:19:32.039
in Australia, but in the US they're actually doing some

408
00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:37.160
incredible things. I went to a police jaka who's an

409
00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:39.960
Australian researcher who's very much into the gut health world.

410
00:19:40.079 --> 00:19:43.079
She was talking about something in the US which they

411
00:19:43.119 --> 00:19:47.839
call crapshules, and essentially what they're looking at doing is

412
00:19:48.039 --> 00:19:52.480
using like fecal transplants as a type of I suppose

413
00:19:53.039 --> 00:19:58.359
medication to help people with problems. So, for example, someone

414
00:19:58.400 --> 00:20:01.680
who had a really healthy micro I could take a

415
00:20:01.720 --> 00:20:04.000
fecal transplant from them and give it to someone else

416
00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:08.720
who was experiencing issues and they actually noticed improvements, which

417
00:20:08.759 --> 00:20:11.920
is just amazing. So because they didn't have some of

418
00:20:11.960 --> 00:20:14.920
that good bacter that the other person did, it was

419
00:20:15.160 --> 00:20:16.640
you know, improving.

420
00:20:16.160 --> 00:20:17.079
Some of their symptoms.

421
00:20:17.119 --> 00:20:20.039
And so obviously that's very very early days and I

422
00:20:20.079 --> 00:20:23.119
don't know that craptiles is quite all right word for

423
00:20:23.559 --> 00:20:27.960
the people will be interested in doing that, but yeah,

424
00:20:28.319 --> 00:20:30.759
it's definitely an area that's being looked into.

425
00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:33.799
It's so gross, but it's so fascinating.

426
00:20:35.799 --> 00:20:38.960
Okay, I just wanted to also jump back to I

427
00:20:38.960 --> 00:20:40.720
love that you talked about symptom diaries, by the way,

428
00:20:40.759 --> 00:20:43.240
because obviously, even as a psychologist, that's something that we

429
00:20:43.559 --> 00:20:45.559
ask people to do all of the time as well,

430
00:20:45.640 --> 00:20:49.160
is to keep a track of their mood and whatever

431
00:20:49.160 --> 00:20:52.599
they're experiencing, because the fact is that most people can't

432
00:20:52.640 --> 00:20:56.400
remember yesterday what they were experiencing or what they were feeling,

433
00:20:56.480 --> 00:20:58.480
let alone a week ago or two weeks ago. So

434
00:20:58.599 --> 00:21:02.400
any of that tracking, you know, daily tracking is so

435
00:21:02.599 --> 00:21:06.759
useful for so many reasons. And so I'm assuming also

436
00:21:06.839 --> 00:21:09.279
just on that that there's no medicare available for that testing,

437
00:21:09.279 --> 00:21:11.279
and that's part of the reason it's quite expensive at

438
00:21:11.319 --> 00:21:11.720
the moment.

439
00:21:12.279 --> 00:21:14.599
Yes, So yeah, you can't actually get that back. And

440
00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:17.759
I mean it's all changing at the moment because it

441
00:21:17.839 --> 00:21:21.279
kind of depends who you go and see, because, as

442
00:21:21.279 --> 00:21:22.960
you know, you could see a nutritionist, or you could

443
00:21:22.960 --> 00:21:25.920
work with a naturopath. There's even some holistic gps that

444
00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:28.640
might be offering it as well, So it does probably

445
00:21:28.680 --> 00:21:31.400
depend who you see and what kind of testing they

446
00:21:31.519 --> 00:21:35.079
choose to do. So it's worth looking into that if

447
00:21:35.119 --> 00:21:37.000
it's something that you do think you'd like to get

448
00:21:37.000 --> 00:21:39.640
a rebate on. But yes, unfortunately that's why it is

449
00:21:39.680 --> 00:21:41.039
quite expensive still at the moment.

450
00:21:41.160 --> 00:21:41.720
Yeah, yeah, good.

451
00:21:41.759 --> 00:21:43.359
I'm glad you mentioned that too, because I meant to

452
00:21:43.359 --> 00:21:47.000
ask when you said practitioner, what kind of practitioner specifically,

453
00:21:47.000 --> 00:21:50.279
so dietitian, nutritionist, naturopath.

454
00:21:50.039 --> 00:21:55.079
Yeah, dietitian nutritionist, a naturopath, even a holistic GP would

455
00:21:55.119 --> 00:21:57.400
even probably look into that for you. So there's definitely

456
00:21:57.440 --> 00:22:00.440
different options out there. And when it comes to that,

457
00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:02.759
you know, I think you just need to find a

458
00:22:02.759 --> 00:22:06.640
practitioner that really gels well with you, you know, someone

459
00:22:06.680 --> 00:22:08.400
that you think you can really trust, you can be

460
00:22:08.440 --> 00:22:10.839
open with. Obviously, you want to make sure that their

461
00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:14.480
qualifications are legitimate because that you know, there are sort

462
00:22:14.480 --> 00:22:16.599
of different varieties and people sort of say, oh, what's

463
00:22:16.599 --> 00:22:19.759
the difference between dietitian, nutritionist, natchpap how does it all work?

464
00:22:20.039 --> 00:22:22.599
But just you know, having a chat, looking on their website,

465
00:22:22.680 --> 00:22:24.920
understanding a bit about them, and working with someone that

466
00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:27.200
you know you're comfortable with is the most important thing.

467
00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:30.359
Yeah, And can I just skip all the way back

468
00:22:30.440 --> 00:22:33.319
something that was on my mind before, just in regard

469
00:22:33.319 --> 00:22:36.680
to that inflammation thing, do you have any information about,

470
00:22:36.680 --> 00:22:40.599
for example, autoimmune disease and audo because there's so much

471
00:22:40.599 --> 00:22:43.480
of that around at the moment as well. Autoimmune issues

472
00:22:43.640 --> 00:22:45.839
seem to be really prevalent at the moment, and I'm

473
00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:47.920
wondering if you know what the research is if there

474
00:22:47.960 --> 00:22:50.599
is a link there with gut health as well.

475
00:22:51.119 --> 00:22:54.279
Yeah, well, look, essentially that there can be. So with

476
00:22:54.319 --> 00:22:58.119
the autoimmune disease, it's where your body essentially automatically produces

477
00:22:58.119 --> 00:23:01.480
an immune response to something. And you know, we know

478
00:23:01.680 --> 00:23:04.400
that with your immune system, as I said before, it's

479
00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:06.799
very much linked to your gut health. So you know,

480
00:23:06.920 --> 00:23:09.359
up to ninety percent of your immune sales actually reside

481
00:23:09.400 --> 00:23:12.119
within your gut. So if there are things going on

482
00:23:12.200 --> 00:23:14.880
in terms of you know, compromised gut health or a

483
00:23:14.880 --> 00:23:18.079
lot of that leaky gut, the permeability problems, inflammation in

484
00:23:18.119 --> 00:23:22.839
the gut that can actually translate to autoimmune diseases as well.

485
00:23:23.519 --> 00:23:25.160
So there is a bit of research going on in

486
00:23:25.279 --> 00:23:30.079
terms of those links too, but again there's just there's

487
00:23:30.079 --> 00:23:31.759
so much more to come in that space.

488
00:23:38.839 --> 00:23:43.599
Okay, So, how then does one go about taking the

489
00:23:43.640 --> 00:23:47.359
first steps to improving their gut health, which I assume

490
00:23:47.400 --> 00:23:51.880
based on this conversation is really relevant to everybody, isn't it,

491
00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:53.799
like just for general health and wellbeing?

492
00:23:54.079 --> 00:23:55.519
Definitely? Definitely. Yeah.

493
00:23:55.559 --> 00:23:57.599
So essentially, when you think about your gut health, you

494
00:23:57.680 --> 00:24:00.480
can just think about it as affecting your own health,

495
00:24:00.519 --> 00:24:03.000
so every other aspect of your health, and as I

496
00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:06.440
sort of said earlier on, you don't need to be thinking, Okay,

497
00:24:06.480 --> 00:24:09.359
what supplements and what products and all kind of crazy

498
00:24:09.400 --> 00:24:11.039
diets and all this thing do I need to go

499
00:24:11.079 --> 00:24:13.240
on to work on my gut health. It really is

500
00:24:13.319 --> 00:24:15.440
just the simple things that you do every day that

501
00:24:15.480 --> 00:24:18.799
can make the biggest difference. So diet is obviously one

502
00:24:18.799 --> 00:24:21.759
that I'm a huge advocate for. And when we look

503
00:24:21.799 --> 00:24:24.400
at diet, the things that are most helpful al most

504
00:24:24.400 --> 00:24:29.200
supportive of gut health are things like vegetables, fruits, legumes,

505
00:24:29.400 --> 00:24:34.240
whole grains, extra virgin olive oil, yogat, kefia, you know,

506
00:24:34.319 --> 00:24:34.839
nuts and.

507
00:24:34.839 --> 00:24:38.200
Seeds, oily fish. They're kind of your main ones.

508
00:24:38.240 --> 00:24:40.160
And you'll see that if anyone's ever heard of the

509
00:24:40.200 --> 00:24:44.720
Mediterranean diet before, it's very similar to a Mediterranean diet.

510
00:24:44.759 --> 00:24:47.160
And that's where you know, I love the Mediterranean diet

511
00:24:47.160 --> 00:24:51.000
because it's not essentially a prescriptive diet, but it's more

512
00:24:51.039 --> 00:24:53.680
a dietary pattern. So it's just the fact that they

513
00:24:53.720 --> 00:24:56.880
include a whole variety and a whole heap of all

514
00:24:56.920 --> 00:24:59.920
those different foods that I've talked about as opposed to

515
00:25:00.119 --> 00:25:02.119
going okay, only so many serves of this and so

516
00:25:02.160 --> 00:25:05.200
many serves of this, and trying to stick to anything specific.

517
00:25:06.079 --> 00:25:08.759
So in terms of diet, that's definitely a great place

518
00:25:08.799 --> 00:25:11.559
to start, but also things like making sure you get

519
00:25:11.640 --> 00:25:14.839
enough sleep and making sure you exercise, and of course

520
00:25:14.920 --> 00:25:17.480
looking after your stress levels as well, because we know

521
00:25:18.359 --> 00:25:21.640
how much that your mental health is linked to your

522
00:25:21.640 --> 00:25:23.519
gut health. It's you know, it's got its own kind

523
00:25:23.519 --> 00:25:27.079
of connection or communication pathway through the vagus nerve, so

524
00:25:27.119 --> 00:25:29.400
we know that if you're stressed, that can definitely be

525
00:25:29.400 --> 00:25:32.400
affecting your gut health as well. So there's lots of

526
00:25:32.440 --> 00:25:35.880
different aspects you can work on. But obviously for me

527
00:25:35.960 --> 00:25:40.000
and my work, using whole foods and dietary intervention is

528
00:25:40.119 --> 00:25:41.400
really really helpful.

529
00:25:41.759 --> 00:25:45.839
I know you did speak specifically about that Mediterranean approach,

530
00:25:46.039 --> 00:25:50.599
but is it fair to say just avoiding fast foods

531
00:25:50.720 --> 00:25:54.440
or overly processed foods is a good starting point or

532
00:25:54.599 --> 00:25:57.200
is it more specific kind of like not too much

533
00:25:57.240 --> 00:25:59.200
red meat. You know, there's specific sort of things we

534
00:25:59.240 --> 00:25:59.920
should be looking out.

535
00:26:00.759 --> 00:26:04.000
Yeah, well, it kind of goes both ways, because yes,

536
00:26:04.279 --> 00:26:06.880
you know you do want to think about, Okay, I

537
00:26:06.880 --> 00:26:08.599
don't want to eat too much of you know, your

538
00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:11.759
processed and refined foods because you're not getting a lot

539
00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:14.039
of the things that are helpful for your gut in

540
00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:18.440
that sense. But it's not just about avoiding them, because

541
00:26:18.440 --> 00:26:21.279
what is just as are probably more important, is the

542
00:26:21.359 --> 00:26:24.839
nutrients you actually get from the other foods I'm talking about.

543
00:26:25.039 --> 00:26:27.160
So that's where I like to say to people, have

544
00:26:27.240 --> 00:26:29.799
more of a focus about the good stuff that you

545
00:26:29.839 --> 00:26:32.799
want to pack out your diet with, because if you think, okay,

546
00:26:32.799 --> 00:26:36.599
well I need to eat a heap of veggies, you know, fruits,

547
00:26:36.680 --> 00:26:40.599
whole grains, legumes, oily, fish, extravegin, olive, oil, yo get carefea,

548
00:26:40.640 --> 00:26:43.960
all that sort of stuff. If you are really focusing

549
00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:47.000
on doing that properly at every single meal, there's not

550
00:26:47.119 --> 00:26:49.440
a lot of space for the other crappy stuff to

551
00:26:49.519 --> 00:26:51.720
come in, you know, like you process foods and all

552
00:26:51.759 --> 00:26:54.240
of that. So I prefer for people to have a

553
00:26:54.279 --> 00:26:56.920
mindset that way, rather than thinking about the things they

554
00:26:56.960 --> 00:27:00.160
can't eat, Let's think about all those amazing foods that

555
00:27:00.200 --> 00:27:04.119
we can eat, and that'll kind of outpopulate the bad things,

556
00:27:04.200 --> 00:27:05.920
if that makes sense for sure.

557
00:27:06.480 --> 00:27:08.839
And I know that you have said that it's not

558
00:27:08.920 --> 00:27:11.039
all about supplements and stuff like that, but I think

559
00:27:11.039 --> 00:27:15.240
most people thinking of gut health go straight to probiotics.

560
00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:19.480
For example, is there a place for probiotics just on

561
00:27:19.519 --> 00:27:22.000
a day to day basis.

562
00:27:21.680 --> 00:27:23.720
Yeah, look, look there definitely is.

563
00:27:23.960 --> 00:27:26.680
So essentially, what probotics are for people that don't know

564
00:27:27.000 --> 00:27:29.519
is that good bacteria that we want in our guts.

565
00:27:29.519 --> 00:27:32.599
So we want our guts to be full of good probiotics.

566
00:27:32.680 --> 00:27:35.720
And if you're not getting enough of that from food,

567
00:27:35.759 --> 00:27:38.559
it can be helpful to use a probotics supplement. Now,

568
00:27:38.599 --> 00:27:41.480
whether you need to be on that long term forever,

569
00:27:41.759 --> 00:27:43.759
maybe not. And what we know about a lot of

570
00:27:43.759 --> 00:27:45.920
probotics supplements is the way that they work is that

571
00:27:45.920 --> 00:27:50.079
they're actually transient in their actions. So as they go

572
00:27:50.240 --> 00:27:54.160
through your system, they're working their magic, but they're not

573
00:27:54.240 --> 00:27:57.720
necessarily colonizing in your guts, so they're not actually, like

574
00:27:58.319 --> 00:28:00.480
you know, making a home and camping out in there

575
00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:03.400
like a lot of our other bacteria do. So they

576
00:28:03.400 --> 00:28:04.640
can be helpful.

577
00:28:04.200 --> 00:28:06.160
In that they're transient in that way.

578
00:28:06.640 --> 00:28:09.160
But as I said, because we want such a different

579
00:28:10.160 --> 00:28:15.000
variety in richness, sometimes it's worth using a certain strain

580
00:28:15.039 --> 00:28:17.680
of probotic for a time. And we know that certain

581
00:28:17.720 --> 00:28:21.960
strains can be more helpful for different implications. So for example,

582
00:28:22.680 --> 00:28:25.920
some are better suited to people with ibs, or some

583
00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:28.480
might be better suited to people with skin problems, or

584
00:28:28.519 --> 00:28:32.279
some might be better suited to people with recurrent UTIs

585
00:28:32.400 --> 00:28:35.519
or something like that. So you can get different probatic

586
00:28:35.599 --> 00:28:37.759
strains that are better for certain things. But as you

587
00:28:37.839 --> 00:28:42.480
kind of go through your life journey, I suppose that's something.

588
00:28:42.279 --> 00:28:44.119
That you probably would want to be changing up all

589
00:28:44.160 --> 00:28:44.559
the time.

590
00:28:44.640 --> 00:28:47.599
So they can definitely be helpful and there's definitely a

591
00:28:47.640 --> 00:28:50.880
place for them, but then it's also not really worth

592
00:28:50.920 --> 00:28:54.200
spending your money on that if you're not focusing on

593
00:28:54.279 --> 00:28:57.000
the daily things you can do. So, like I said,

594
00:28:57.039 --> 00:29:00.920
including all those foods all the time, because it's those

595
00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:03.039
foods that are going to mean you're getting the benefit

596
00:29:03.160 --> 00:29:06.200
from that probotic supplement. You're not really going to get

597
00:29:06.200 --> 00:29:08.359
the best benefit from the supplement if your diet is

598
00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:10.519
full of process and refined foods.

599
00:29:10.559 --> 00:29:12.680
Right, So you can't have a crappy diet and just

600
00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:15.039
take a probiotic and expect that to sort the whole

601
00:29:15.200 --> 00:29:16.200
gut thing out.

602
00:29:16.799 --> 00:29:20.240
Exactly, not quite how it works, unfortunately.

603
00:29:21.039 --> 00:29:23.079
I'm just really curious because I know our listeners will

604
00:29:23.079 --> 00:29:26.640
be probably similar to me, have this sort of tenuous

605
00:29:26.759 --> 00:29:29.640
kind of understanding but not no real depth. But things

606
00:29:29.680 --> 00:29:32.839
like fermented foods is something we keep hearing about as well.

607
00:29:32.880 --> 00:29:36.000
And I know there's the paleo movement and all of

608
00:29:36.039 --> 00:29:38.759
these other approaches to diet which have brought.

609
00:29:38.480 --> 00:29:39.839
These things into the forefront.

610
00:29:39.880 --> 00:29:43.519
But where does that fit in at the gut health conversation?

611
00:29:44.200 --> 00:29:47.279
Yeah, really good question, because I think fermented foods are

612
00:29:47.319 --> 00:29:50.240
something that essentially is still whole foods. I don't quite

613
00:29:50.240 --> 00:29:53.039
see them still as like a supplement, but they've been

614
00:29:53.079 --> 00:29:55.640
news for years and years, and they're like, you know,

615
00:29:55.920 --> 00:30:00.319
really really old traditions fermenting vegetables and making the like

616
00:30:00.359 --> 00:30:03.039
keerfea and even can butcher and foods.

617
00:30:02.680 --> 00:30:06.400
Like that, and really what they are.

618
00:30:05.960 --> 00:30:09.200
Fermented or cultured or probotic foods provide you with that

619
00:30:09.359 --> 00:30:14.440
extra bacteria benefit, so other than just your normal whole foods,

620
00:30:14.480 --> 00:30:17.599
these ones have been fermented so that you actually get.

621
00:30:17.400 --> 00:30:19.440
More of that bacteria.

622
00:30:19.720 --> 00:30:22.799
So fermented veggies are great and they're so easy to

623
00:30:22.839 --> 00:30:26.079
make yourself as well, but you can buy them. So

624
00:30:26.200 --> 00:30:28.720
just on a point for anyone that is buying fermented veggies,

625
00:30:29.319 --> 00:30:33.079
make sure you're buying them from the refrigerator section, not

626
00:30:33.400 --> 00:30:35.359
from the shelf, because if they're from the shelf, they've

627
00:30:35.400 --> 00:30:38.680
been pasteurized and when that happens, you essentially kill off

628
00:30:38.680 --> 00:30:41.359
all that live bacteria. So you want them from the fridge,

629
00:30:41.680 --> 00:30:44.319
and they just kind of used as like a you know,

630
00:30:44.359 --> 00:30:47.119
a condiment really to your fruit. So you wouldn't eat

631
00:30:47.200 --> 00:30:50.680
a full bowl of fermented vegetables. But as you might see,

632
00:30:50.720 --> 00:30:54.240
you know, it's quite common in Korean cultures where they

633
00:30:54.240 --> 00:30:56.400
have a little bit of kimchi with all of their meals,

634
00:30:57.240 --> 00:30:59.079
So it's that sort of thing, just using little bits

635
00:30:59.079 --> 00:31:02.079
and pieces throughout the to compliment with your meals is

636
00:31:02.119 --> 00:31:05.359
a really good one. In terms of the actual research

637
00:31:05.440 --> 00:31:08.119
behind a lot of these foods, the one that is

638
00:31:08.279 --> 00:31:12.599
really supported is kefia, which is a fermented kind I

639
00:31:12.599 --> 00:31:15.839
suppose a fermented milk drink, so I think a mix

640
00:31:15.920 --> 00:31:18.839
between a yogurt and a milk. It's thicker than milk,

641
00:31:18.920 --> 00:31:20.920
but it's not quite as thick as yogat, so it's

642
00:31:20.920 --> 00:31:25.519
still like a porable consistency. And kefia is I just

643
00:31:25.559 --> 00:31:28.200
love it because it's such an easy one you can

644
00:31:28.759 --> 00:31:30.880
add to your diet because it's so similar to a

645
00:31:30.960 --> 00:31:33.839
yogurt or a milk, but it's just got so many

646
00:31:33.920 --> 00:31:37.079
more probodic benefits than your yogurt or your milk. So

647
00:31:37.119 --> 00:31:39.799
it's an easy swap that you can use that doesn't

648
00:31:39.839 --> 00:31:42.920
really affect your day to day eating as much, but

649
00:31:42.960 --> 00:31:45.160
you're getting much more I supposed bang for your buck

650
00:31:45.200 --> 00:31:48.880
in terms of the probotic benefits Traditionally, perhaps.

651
00:31:48.720 --> 00:31:49.799
Have you ever tried it before?

652
00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:50.279
Yeah?

653
00:31:50.359 --> 00:31:52.640
Yeah, yeah, So some people find.

654
00:31:52.480 --> 00:31:54.799
That when they first tried it, they were kind of

655
00:31:54.799 --> 00:31:58.920
turned off because it gets like an effervescent kind of

656
00:31:59.440 --> 00:32:01.640
texture to it. So some people say it's a bit

657
00:32:01.720 --> 00:32:04.720
like having a mix of milk and soda water, which

658
00:32:04.759 --> 00:32:07.839
to me is really not a feiling and I can

659
00:32:08.039 --> 00:32:10.359
understand why people perhaps may have tried it before and

660
00:32:10.400 --> 00:32:13.200
been like, that's not for me. But one of the

661
00:32:13.279 --> 00:32:15.559
companies that I work with, the Culture Co, I'm actually

662
00:32:15.599 --> 00:32:18.400
their official nutritionists, And the reason I love their product

663
00:32:18.440 --> 00:32:21.680
is because they use a special combination of probotics where

664
00:32:21.680 --> 00:32:22.799
they can actually produce a.

665
00:32:22.759 --> 00:32:24.880
Really smooth and creamy texture.

666
00:32:25.359 --> 00:32:27.119
And I think that's such a good way for people

667
00:32:27.160 --> 00:32:30.480
to start with kefia because, as I said, that effervescent

668
00:32:30.680 --> 00:32:32.559
kind of texture isn't that nice.

669
00:32:32.599 --> 00:32:35.160
But when it's really nice and you know, smooth and creamy,

670
00:32:35.200 --> 00:32:36.319
you can just use it in.

671
00:32:36.200 --> 00:32:38.000
Place of a yogurt or in place of a milk,

672
00:32:38.039 --> 00:32:40.400
and you know, it's so easy to use in your

673
00:32:40.400 --> 00:32:41.200
everyday diet.

674
00:32:42.079 --> 00:32:44.359
Yeah, And I want to go back to the point

675
00:32:44.359 --> 00:32:49.160
that you made about taking fermented veggies from the fridge

676
00:32:49.240 --> 00:32:52.200
not the shelf. Can we just have that conversation in

677
00:32:52.240 --> 00:32:56.160
relation to kombucha, because kombucha is so popular now as well,

678
00:32:56.319 --> 00:33:00.400
but a lot of it is stored on supermarket shelves. Yes, yes,

679
00:33:00.480 --> 00:33:03.319
so people getting the benefits of those probiotics if they're

680
00:33:03.880 --> 00:33:05.440
buying it shelve stock.

681
00:33:05.720 --> 00:33:06.119
Yeah.

682
00:33:06.160 --> 00:33:09.279
So one thing with kimbucha is that that's actually one

683
00:33:09.279 --> 00:33:11.160
of the foods that it's not to say that it's

684
00:33:11.200 --> 00:33:13.839
not going to help your gut, but we don't really

685
00:33:13.920 --> 00:33:16.440
have the research to back it up just yet. So

686
00:33:17.200 --> 00:33:19.960
that's kind of a space that's you know, watch this space.

687
00:33:20.039 --> 00:33:22.680
I think there probably will be some research to come,

688
00:33:23.319 --> 00:33:27.039
but at the moment, you will still get some benefit

689
00:33:27.079 --> 00:33:30.039
from it and the ones that deserved I've actually looked

690
00:33:30.039 --> 00:33:32.599
into this quite a bit myself, because I've noticed that

691
00:33:32.640 --> 00:33:34.920
some of the brands are now bringing out varieties that

692
00:33:35.079 --> 00:33:39.000
are just stored in the refrigerator. So I think what

693
00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:42.359
they're saying there is that you'll get added probonic benefits

694
00:33:42.359 --> 00:33:45.200
from the ones that are coming from the refrigerator, but

695
00:33:45.319 --> 00:33:47.960
you'll still get some benefits from the ones that aren't.

696
00:33:48.519 --> 00:33:52.359
So it's not in the same sense as fermented vegetables,

697
00:33:52.400 --> 00:33:54.400
where the ones that are stored on the shelves they've

698
00:33:54.400 --> 00:33:57.799
actually been pasteurized, which means they've had heat added to them,

699
00:33:57.960 --> 00:34:00.559
So that's actually killing off some of the pro boy goodness,

700
00:34:00.880 --> 00:34:03.599
whereas the kombucher that's sort on the shelf, I believe

701
00:34:03.759 --> 00:34:08.280
still does have some provate benefit. But yeah, ideally ones

702
00:34:08.320 --> 00:34:10.159
that are sort in the fridge are going to maintain

703
00:34:10.400 --> 00:34:12.000
the most or the highest quality.

704
00:34:12.199 --> 00:34:14.719
Yeah, Now, while we have got time, I also want

705
00:34:14.760 --> 00:34:17.400
to go back to the as a psychologist, I want

706
00:34:17.440 --> 00:34:20.119
to go back to the food mood link because I

707
00:34:20.119 --> 00:34:23.119
think this is really really interesting. Can you talk us

708
00:34:23.119 --> 00:34:26.079
through what some of the research is around, for example,

709
00:34:26.119 --> 00:34:27.519
depression and gut health.

710
00:34:28.119 --> 00:34:30.920
Yeah, so what we're essentially looking at there as I

711
00:34:30.960 --> 00:34:34.159
talked about that kind of communication pathway directly between your

712
00:34:34.159 --> 00:34:37.079
gut and your brain, which which happens through the vagus nerve.

713
00:34:37.159 --> 00:34:40.079
And we know that a lot of our neurotransmitters which

714
00:34:40.119 --> 00:34:44.039
are involved in feelings and emotions and all that, seventy

715
00:34:44.079 --> 00:34:46.679
percent of them are actually produced in your gut. So

716
00:34:47.000 --> 00:34:50.480
without even like considering really the research, it makes sense

717
00:34:50.639 --> 00:34:52.679
that you know, what's going on on your gut can

718
00:34:52.719 --> 00:34:54.719
affect what's going on in your mental health, but also

719
00:34:54.760 --> 00:34:58.159
the other way around as well. Now, there's an incredible

720
00:34:58.199 --> 00:35:00.880
study that's been done in Australia by that police Jacka

721
00:35:00.920 --> 00:35:03.920
who I mentioned earlier, and it was called the Smiles Trial,

722
00:35:04.159 --> 00:35:07.000
and essentially the aim of the trial was to say, Okay,

723
00:35:07.639 --> 00:35:10.800
if I improve my diet, can I improve my depression.

724
00:35:11.519 --> 00:35:13.519
And what they did was they had two different groups

725
00:35:13.599 --> 00:35:17.559
and all the people that were involved were deemed clinically depressed,

726
00:35:17.679 --> 00:35:19.880
and they either were gone into a group that had

727
00:35:19.920 --> 00:35:23.440
a dietary intervention where they were given a dietary intervention

728
00:35:23.519 --> 00:35:26.079
that was very much based around that Mediterranean diet that

729
00:35:26.119 --> 00:35:29.159
I talked about earlier. And then we had what essentially

730
00:35:29.199 --> 00:35:31.079
it was a control group, but it was a social

731
00:35:31.119 --> 00:35:34.480
support group. So the reason that was deemed is the

732
00:35:34.559 --> 00:35:38.159
control group was because with going to see someone to

733
00:35:38.199 --> 00:35:40.280
have a dietary intervention, so for example, you go to

734
00:35:40.280 --> 00:35:44.239
see the dietitian or nutritionist, you actually get that.

735
00:35:44.199 --> 00:35:45.800
Level of social support as well.

736
00:35:45.840 --> 00:35:47.440
You don't kind of just go in there and they

737
00:35:47.559 --> 00:35:49.719
just go this is, this is this and kind of

738
00:35:49.719 --> 00:35:51.760
get out of my office. That there is that aspect

739
00:35:51.760 --> 00:35:53.800
of Okay, you're sitting down, they're going to ask you

740
00:35:53.880 --> 00:35:56.039
how you are, They're going to ask you about your lifestyle,

741
00:35:56.400 --> 00:35:57.360
and you kind of get a bit.

742
00:35:57.280 --> 00:35:59.280
Of that social support as well, So what they.

743
00:35:59.159 --> 00:36:02.159
Did to control that was it on the other side,

744
00:36:02.199 --> 00:36:06.280
they weren't actually receiving like any official counseling or anything

745
00:36:06.320 --> 00:36:08.719
like that. It was just social support, so just someone

746
00:36:08.760 --> 00:36:10.880
that could say to them, how are you, what's going on,

747
00:36:11.320 --> 00:36:14.400
and kind of control for that base level of social support.

748
00:36:14.599 --> 00:36:17.239
And what they found was that the people who had

749
00:36:17.239 --> 00:36:22.360
the dietary intervention had significantly greater improvements in their depressive symptoms,

750
00:36:23.199 --> 00:36:26.840
which is just incredible, you know, just literally from food

751
00:36:26.880 --> 00:36:29.199
because they were able to control for other factors. So

752
00:36:29.760 --> 00:36:31.760
of course, you know, we need a lot more research

753
00:36:31.800 --> 00:36:35.199
to happen in that space. And it's not to say

754
00:36:35.280 --> 00:36:39.239
that diet alone is going to be a treatment option,

755
00:36:39.760 --> 00:36:42.880
but to think that diet can have such a big

756
00:36:42.920 --> 00:36:45.559
effect and can play an even more important role in

757
00:36:45.599 --> 00:36:49.039
a holistic treatment option for someone and for me, I

758
00:36:49.159 --> 00:36:51.599
just think, you know, how incredible is that that it's

759
00:36:51.639 --> 00:36:54.800
something that we're already doing every single day. We're all

760
00:36:54.840 --> 00:36:57.039
eating multiple times a day already.

761
00:36:57.559 --> 00:36:58.800
So it's just about.

762
00:36:58.519 --> 00:37:01.239
Making that small shift about the foods that you choose,

763
00:37:01.840 --> 00:37:04.719
you know, as opposed to having to go on you know,

764
00:37:04.880 --> 00:37:07.000
other things that can be harder to stick to like

765
00:37:07.079 --> 00:37:10.679
taking medications or going to see someone for counseling. Those

766
00:37:10.719 --> 00:37:12.559
things can be a bit harder to do and to

767
00:37:12.599 --> 00:37:15.880
get that compliance with. But if you're already eating every day,

768
00:37:16.119 --> 00:37:18.880
it can just be a few simple changes to your

769
00:37:18.920 --> 00:37:21.639
diet that can really have a big effect. So I

770
00:37:21.679 --> 00:37:24.559
think there's you know, some really exciting research to come

771
00:37:24.599 --> 00:37:27.239
to show how it can play more of a holistic

772
00:37:27.320 --> 00:37:30.199
part in a treatment plan for people for mental health.

773
00:37:30.559 --> 00:37:31.119
For sure.

774
00:37:31.159 --> 00:37:33.079
And I just think, you know, for me, for people

775
00:37:33.119 --> 00:37:35.840
in the mental health field, you know, we screen people

776
00:37:35.880 --> 00:37:37.519
and we ask them a whole lot of questions about

777
00:37:37.559 --> 00:37:39.760
their mood and their lifestyle and stress and all of

778
00:37:39.760 --> 00:37:42.360
the rest of it. But you know, when I was trained,

779
00:37:42.400 --> 00:37:44.519
we weren't asking them about what they were eating every day.

780
00:37:44.519 --> 00:37:46.719
We weren't asking them those questions. And I think that's

781
00:37:46.760 --> 00:37:49.840
really important that we start to as therapists and people

782
00:37:49.840 --> 00:37:52.199
in mental health we start to take that I think

783
00:37:52.199 --> 00:37:54.639
we are now, but to really be focused on that

784
00:37:54.920 --> 00:37:57.599
holistic approach to health and well being.

785
00:37:57.840 --> 00:38:00.920
And I think that that there's so many different types

786
00:38:00.960 --> 00:38:04.679
of practitioners that can really all work together to have

787
00:38:04.760 --> 00:38:07.719
more of a holistic treatment plan for someone as opposed

788
00:38:07.760 --> 00:38:10.800
to just you know, looking in particular directions for the

789
00:38:10.840 --> 00:38:12.199
type of help that they might need.

790
00:38:12.360 --> 00:38:15.079
It really is more of a holistic approach.

791
00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:19.239
We've talked about the Mediterranean diet. Are there other approaches

792
00:38:19.440 --> 00:38:22.119
and I also alluded before to the paleo and all

793
00:38:22.159 --> 00:38:25.039
of that sort of stuff. Are there other specific approaches

794
00:38:25.079 --> 00:38:29.159
to food and eating beyond individual foods like the cafe

795
00:38:29.320 --> 00:38:33.639
and all of those, but diet approaches that are shown

796
00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:38.119
to improve gut health. Kito, I'm thinking keito fasting all

797
00:38:38.119 --> 00:38:40.000
of these things that people are talking about these days.

798
00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:43.960
In terms of dietary protocols, I guess yeah.

799
00:38:44.079 --> 00:38:47.320
Look, I think in general the best thing to think

800
00:38:47.320 --> 00:38:50.840
about what is most supportive for gut health is whole

801
00:38:50.840 --> 00:38:54.239
foods in general. And I think where people can start

802
00:38:54.280 --> 00:38:57.480
to get into a bit of trouble is where they

803
00:38:57.519 --> 00:39:02.559
do start limiting themselves to dietary labels. So as you said,

804
00:39:02.559 --> 00:39:05.079
saying that I'm keto or I'm paleo or I'm this,

805
00:39:05.280 --> 00:39:08.199
because a lot of those dietary trends, what they do

806
00:39:08.280 --> 00:39:11.880
is actually cut out food groups. So for example, keto

807
00:39:12.440 --> 00:39:15.960
is really low carbohydrate. Now what that means is that

808
00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:18.400
you're going to cut out a huge portion of things

809
00:39:18.480 --> 00:39:21.960
like whole grains and legumes, and probably dairy as well,

810
00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:24.559
because you've got you know, your limit to how many

811
00:39:24.599 --> 00:39:27.559
carbohydrates you can have per day. But what we know

812
00:39:27.880 --> 00:39:31.079
is those things are so so helpful for gut health.

813
00:39:31.320 --> 00:39:34.400
You know, they're full of fiber, and fiber is what

814
00:39:34.440 --> 00:39:37.840
your gut really needs. So I think people just need

815
00:39:37.880 --> 00:39:40.679
to be careful when they are following dietary trends that

816
00:39:40.719 --> 00:39:43.639
are cutting out whole food groups because it really is

817
00:39:43.679 --> 00:39:46.480
about that variety. We know that the more variety in

818
00:39:46.519 --> 00:39:50.599
your diet equals more variety in bacteria in your gut.

819
00:39:50.800 --> 00:39:52.559
So what we want is for people to aim for

820
00:39:52.599 --> 00:39:54.719
as many different food groups.

821
00:39:54.480 --> 00:39:58.239
As they can to really help populate that diversity and

822
00:39:58.280 --> 00:40:02.119
that richness of the good bacteria guts. So there's definitely

823
00:40:02.119 --> 00:40:05.159
I mean, the Mediterranean dietary pattern is not the only

824
00:40:05.199 --> 00:40:07.639
way you can improve your gut health. But I think

825
00:40:07.639 --> 00:40:10.280
it's more about thinking of it, okay, as a whole

826
00:40:10.280 --> 00:40:13.559
food base and you know, getting as much inclusion variety

827
00:40:13.599 --> 00:40:17.159
as you can as opposed to following other dietary trends

828
00:40:17.159 --> 00:40:18.960
that are cutting out whole food groups.

829
00:40:19.159 --> 00:40:19.360
Yeah.

830
00:40:19.519 --> 00:40:23.800
Sure, good advice, Good advice, Thank you so much. You've

831
00:40:23.840 --> 00:40:24.960
been a wealth of information.

832
00:40:25.199 --> 00:40:28.039
I know that lots of people will really appreciate the

833
00:40:28.079 --> 00:40:30.239
information that you've shared with us, and I certainly have

834
00:40:30.760 --> 00:40:33.840
for anybody who's interested in this and looking to find

835
00:40:33.840 --> 00:40:36.760
out more, is are there particular websites that they can

836
00:40:36.800 --> 00:40:38.559
go to or your website where they can get some

837
00:40:38.599 --> 00:40:40.440
more information. Yeah.

838
00:40:40.480 --> 00:40:42.960
So I've got heaps of really great articles and also

839
00:40:43.000 --> 00:40:45.599
really gut friendly recipes on my website, so you can

840
00:40:45.639 --> 00:40:49.639
find that at www dot bodygodfood dot com dot au.

841
00:40:50.280 --> 00:40:52.320
And I also share a lot over on my Instagram

842
00:40:52.360 --> 00:40:55.639
as well, so my handle is Nutritionist Underscores Steph Getties.

843
00:40:55.920 --> 00:40:59.199
Nutritionists Underscore Steph Getties. I'm gonna follow you right now.

844
00:41:00.920 --> 00:41:03.440
Thank you so much, Steph. Good luck with your new baby.

845
00:41:03.800 --> 00:41:06.440
Thank you, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much.

846
00:41:06.519 --> 00:41:07.320
Thanks for having me.

847
00:41:09.360 --> 00:41:11.679
Thank you for tuning in to this special episode of

848
00:41:11.679 --> 00:41:14.559
Crappy to Happy. I know that I am fascinated by

849
00:41:14.599 --> 00:41:16.840
the links between food and mood, and I'm sure that

850
00:41:16.880 --> 00:41:19.800
you would have learned something that was interesting and valuable

851
00:41:19.960 --> 00:41:22.599
for you too. I'll put the links to STEP's website

852
00:41:22.639 --> 00:41:24.840
and her details in the show notes, and I'll look

853
00:41:24.880 --> 00:41:27.519
forward to bringing you season five of Crappy to Happy

854
00:41:27.679 --> 00:41:32.280
very very soon. Crappy to Happy is presented by Cash Dunn,

855
00:41:32.559 --> 00:41:36.000
produced by David Lensky, Audio production by Darcy Thompson.

856
00:41:41.199 --> 00:41:41.639
Listener