Love Your Guts with Steph Geddes

0:02 A listener production. Hey guys, you're listening to Crappy to Happy. I'm cast done. I'm a clinical and coaching psychologist, mindfulness meditation teacher, and author of the Crappy to Happy books. In this series, I introduce you to interesting, inspiring, intelligent people who are experts in their fields, with the hope that the insights and experiences that they share can help you to feel a whole lot less crappy and more happy. Today, I am talking to step Getty's on the topic of good gut health. Steph is a clinical nutritionist, a self proclaimed foodie, and owner of Bodygodfood dot com dot au. She specializes in turning all of her nutrition know how into amazingly delicious recipes and you can find some of those on her website. And Steph is due to have a baby very very soon, so I am thrilled that we were able to get her in for this chat before she heads off on maternity leave. And I also wanted to get this episode out to you now because right now, we are understandably all really focused on building the healthiest immune system that we possibly can, and one of the ways to do that is by focusing on the health of your gut Here is my chat with step Steph, thank you so much for being with me today. This topic is one that we have wanted to cover on the podcast for a really long time, so I'm really glad that we were able to catch you before you disappear on Maternity Lead. Yes, so thank you so much for your time, my pleasure, and look, I just want to get straight into this. We al sort of have

1:33 this awareness of the importance of gut health, but I think really we don't fully know what that means. So can you just start by giving us a general overview for the listeners about why all of the focus and the attention on gut health specifically. Sure. Well, I suppose part of the reason why it's probably become such, you know, more of a mainstream thing at the moment and a lot of people are talking about it is because we've got some incredible research coming out about it, and even then, we're still in our infancy with that. But some of the stuff that's coming out is just linking gut health to so many other aspects of our health that we've now realized, Wow, okay, this really is important and this is something that people should really be aware of and should be focusing on when I say that, and we'll talk about this a bit more, But it's not necessarily you know, specific things that we need to be doing and supplements and products we need to be taking. It's just you know, general lifestyle habits.

2:31 But I think it is just more about having that awareness about how important your gut is linked to other aspects of health as well. So on that what are the other health aspects like what are the implications I guess or what are the consequences of not having good gut health? Yeah, well, some of the preliminary research at the moment is showing that it's related to things such as your immunity because a lot of your immune sales actually sit within your gut, even things like how we store fat, how we regulate blood glucose, control your appetite, your digestion obviously, but there's also some incredible links to mental health and your mood as well, because our neurotransmitters, which are our I suppose chemicals that relate to your feelings and emotions, about seventy to eighty percent of them also produced in your gut as well, So and it can also have something to be determining your risk of disease as well.

3:21 And as I said, this is a really early research, but it's incredible stuff that we now know which we can use to help, you know, shape people's diets, but also just their lifestyles as well. That's fascinating. I obviously am really interested in the psychology stuff, the mood, food length, so I will come. Back to that. But when you say it's just general lifestyle stuff, so what are the sorts of things that will have a like negatively affect your gut health? Like why why might somebody have poor gut health? Yeah? So, look, there's many different reasons, and you know, as a nutritionist, diet is obviously one of them, and I think, personally, I think a very important one. But you can't forget other things.

4:01 Like just simply stress or sleep or exercise, or use of medication or antibiotics. Because essentially, what our. Gut health is it's our makeup of bacteria, microorganisms that live in our gastruline testinal tract. Now, what we know is that there's no sort of one prescription that everybody should have. You know, you don't need to have this much of this bacteria and this much of this much essentially a third of what's in our gut is common for everyone, but two thirds is always going to. Be individual to everybody. Right, So instead of going, okay, well everyone needs to aim to have this kind of set prescription of bacteria, it doesn't really work like that. It more works like the more diversity and the more variety and the more richness of that good bacteria that we have, the better, And that's going to look different for everybody. So what gut health might be for me is very different to what it is even for other people in my family or just an anyone else, you know, any individual really, So how we know whether your gut is functioning properly comes down to more about how it's performing rather than anything.

5:10 So someone who might have poor gut health could experience any kind of symptoms from you know, obviously very much your digestion related symptoms, so things like bloating or a lot of gas, or stomach pains, irregular bowel movements, reflux, all of that sort of thing, but it can also be things like skin problems or you know, mood shifts and mental health things. So there's so many different ways that poor gut health can kind of show itself, and essentially what we need to look at is go, okay, well, we know that gut health isn't about having a set prescription of bacteria. We just want to make sure that it's functioning properly so that we're not experiencing a lot of those symptoms which a lot of people think of normal symptoms and put up with, particularly I think the gas ruinetestinal symptoms like bloating and things like that, when they're not necessarily normal and you don't.

6:01 Have to put up with that. You just reminded me. I had a conversation with a friend a few years ago. I think it was either myself or my husband was having back pain, and she was all, it's your gut. You've got to go and look up. She was obviously doing all of this reading and research about gut health at the time, and she was saying, no, honestly, you've got to look after your gut because it's linked to all of these you know, physical pains and joint problems. Is there research around that as well. Is that linked to inflammation or something? Yeah, definitely inflammation. So essentially, when you have. Poor gut health, there can be a lot of inflammation in that area. I no, Yes, can that extend to further inflammation in the body, Like, absolutely it could. But what we also know that it's chronic inflammation that causes a lot of problems for us. So it's you know, a little bit of acute inflammation in the body is normal.

6:47 Like for example, if you were having back pain and it was just for a couple of days, it might just be Okay, well we've you know, strained something or done something there there's a bit of inflammation. Yeah, the body knows then to heal that area, and that's all fine. But it's when we have that chronic inflammation. And we definitely know that when you have poor gut health, there can be a lot of inflammation there. So there's so many different things that it can possibly be linked to. And as I said, the research is still coming out, but I think it just really goes to show that working on your gut health is never going to be a bad thing. Essentially. Yeah, right. Can I ask you the word that we keep hearing and I don't really quite understand what it is, the microbiome, Like what is the microbiome?

7:34 So your microbiome is essentially your makeup of bacteria and its genetic material. So it's like a little mini ecosystem in your body. So think of all the bacteria that resides within you, and there's trillions of bacteria and its genetic material, so it's kind of the makeup of all of that. Now, we don't only just have bacteria in our guts or on gastrointestinal tract like, we even have it on our skin and in our gener regions, vagina, all that sort of stuff. There's lots of bacteria there as well, so it kind of encompasses everything. This is always sort of talked about as being like the key factor we all have to have a healthy micro biome. Yeah, that's just your makeup of bacteria. So when we talk about the composition of bacteria, that's pretty much what we're referring to. And when I say you want that diversity in variety and richness in bacteria, that's what we're always aiming for with a healthy microbiome.

8:28 Yeah, all right, it's just for anybody listening, going, yeah, I keep hearing about this micro but I always just imagine, like this mushroom sitting in my stomach, and that's my microbiome. Like I don't know if. That's actually just a realistic kind of interpretation of what it is. It's like a colony, that's what you're saying, right, It's and what you said before, it's an ecosystem. Yes, yep, yep. So your microbiome is that ecosystem that all that bacteria. It's inclusive of all the bacteria yep. So for a listener somebody tuning in listening to this, going oh okay, so maybe there's an issue with my gup, Like, maybe that's what's going on. So what kinds of things might they be experiencing? You talked about bloating stuff like that, We talked about inflammation and pain. Are there other things that people might be experiencing that they don't necessarily link to a gut issue, like day to day sort of complaints and ailments and brain fog. I'm just thinking of all the kinds of things that people experience that they may not have necessarily associated with gut health.

9:24 Like what should people be on the lookout for. Yeah, absolutely, Like we sort of talked about before it can even come through with skin problems, So inflammation in their skin like rashes or breakouts, things like that, you know, hormone problems. So, as I said before, like a lot of our hormones are produced in our guts. With our guts not functioning properly, and we're not producing the right balance of hormones, you might see shifts in your mood, or you might see other shifts in terms of you know, your menstrual cycle as well. Is that functioning properly. So there's lots of different things that may not be We can't prove that they're direct linked to what's going on in your gut, but we definitely notice that when we start working on that gut and building you know, a better bacterial balance there, and I suppose what a lot of people say is healing the gut as well. When we start doing that, we start to notice improvements in so many different areas, and I think particularly you know, things like mood and even depressive symptoms and things like that.

10:22 There's some incredible research coming out around that and how that can be improved through working on your gut house as well. One other term that I have heard, I'm just going to hit you with all my gut questions because you're the gut expert. Leaky gut. What is is that something that is I mean is that what is it? I guess what is a leaky gut? What is leaky gut syndrome? Yeah, when you think about that, it really is meaning that there's leaks going on in your gut. So what can happen is when your gut is compromised or there's not good gut health going on. We've talked about how you can get a bit of inflammation in the gut, and what happens is the cells your gut should usually sit really tightly. They have these really tight junctions, so that stops things coming in and out which shouldn't be happening.

11:09 So for example, food that's meant to be digesting, we want that to be digested. We don't want that leaking out of the gut into the bloodstream. Likewise, toxins and things it might be in the blood, we don't want that leaking into the gut either. But what can happen is when you do have that inflammation present, those tight junctions can actually start to separate a little bit and we can actually get a leaking going on, so things can be coming in and out of the gut which should not be happening. And that's where that causes that further inflammation in other areas of the body as well. And so I'm assuming that that is also linked to potentially correct me if I'm wrong, but that would be linked to not absorbing nutrients effectively.

11:52 Yeah, yep, absolutely, because you can. I mean, the whole point of your having a healthy gut is that you can make the most of all those nutrients that you're getting and you can actually absorb them properly. But if you know food particles being essentially leaked out of the gut without being digested properly, then yes, you would be missing out on a lot of those nutrients. And so I know we're going to get to sort of what you can do to improve your gut health in a minute and diet, lifestyle factors, all of those sorts of things. But I have heard the leaky gut thing linked to gluten in some people. Is there evidence about that? Is there a gluten leaky gut link? Yeah? Yeah, so there can be so essentially with gluten, some people are going to be intolerant to gluten and some people aren't. So you can go as far as being celiac disease, where you actually produce like an immune response to gluten, whereas some people can just be intolerant. Now, gluten intolerance is one where some people really notice it and you can be quite unwell when you do have gluten, whereas others can actually go on without really noticing any physical symptoms. But it doesn't mean that it's not causing that underlying inflammation in the gut. So essentially what happens there is that that gluten protein causes that inflammation in the gut, and over time, if you're having repeated exposure to gluten and you're getting more and more inflammation there, that's when it can affect that permeability of the gut and we get that leaky gut happening. So yes, for a lot of people it could be related to gluten.

13:22 Doesn't mean it is for everybody. Though, Yeah, right, so that's a really individual trial and error type thing, I guess definitely. Yeah, And you can get tested for that as well, so you can actually see what your tolerance to gluten is and that way. Unfortunately, with gluten intolerance, the only option you have is to avoid gluten at this stage. But in saying that, these days there's so many options for a gluten free diet. You know, it used to be quite uncommon to have all the different flowers and everything, all the different gluten free foods, but these days it's so well catered for that, you know, I think it's quite an easy transition once you educate yourself about being gluten free and avoiding gluten think. I mean, I run retreats, and you know, I always ask people to specify their dietary preferences.

14:07 Was really interesting to me. At the last retreat that I ran, we had a few people who had indicated that they're gluten free, and then the chef, the caterer actually came out and she really made people be very specific about whether they are Celiac or whether they simply they have an intolerance, or if they just prefer to avoid gluten. And it was interesting because she had a whole separate toaster for the Celiac type people versus the people who I think are just preferring to be a bit maybe they have an intolerance, or some people say, oh, I just chose gluten free because I prefer to eat low carb. Like there's all of this. I don't know, crossovers and just people just dipping in and out of the gluten free thing.

14:49 But for some people, obviously it's really serious. Definitely for celiacs, it's very serious and they can become very unwell from having gluten, Whereas, as you said, there's other sort of levels of intolerances. And so sometimes it's just people who say, you know what, I don't think my gut health is very good, or I'm working with a practitioner who's saying we should start working on my gut health. And sometimes one of the options is, okay, well, let's temporarily cut out gluten because it potentially might be causing some inflammation. And then obviously when you work with a practitioner down the track, they'll try and reintroduce foods and see what works. And what doesn't. But that might be a reason why a lot of people are avoiding it as well. It sounds like it's really important for people just to start with a level of self awareness, to even ask themselves the question could this be a gut issue versus is this just to do with I'm busy, I'm stressed, I'm any other thing that might be going on in life.

15:42 Like it sounds like people have to really have an increased level of self awareness. Yeah, yeah, And look, I would say that's definitely something that we should all start to focus a bit more and if we are having any health problems, being a bit more aware about that, and perhaps even keeping something like a symptom diary where you know, so, of course, we all just have crappy days where we just feel off and we're not feeling great, or we've eaten something that we know doesn't you know, sit well with us, so we're feeling a bit bloated or whatever. But if these sorts of. Things happening consistently and regularly over time, keeping something like a symptom diary where you can actually keep track of these things, and then realizing, oh, okay, well this has actually been around for a little while now, and perhaps I need to start doing something to address this.

16:26 Now. As I said, we don't know that it's directly linked to your gut health, but because we know gut health can have such implications for overall health, it is a good place to start and it's a good place to consider. So generally, what I would recommend is, if you get to that point you think, okay, let's try and maybe do something about this, go and book in with a practitioner because they can kind of explain it a little bit more to you. Some practitioners will even offer you testing. So there is testing available which essentially is going to look at your makeup of bacteria. So it's generally done from a fecal sample. So they'll take that, they'll look at all the bacteria and they kind of send you back a report of saying, okay, so you've got this much of this bacteria, this much of this bacteria. And as I said, we don't look at it and go okay, you don't have enough of this or enough of this.

17:14 Or any kind of thing like that. I mean, it works more in a way of okay, we need more diversity of this bacteria. We mean more variety, more richness of that good bacteria. The problem with gut testing at the moment is that it's very expensive. So you know, it can be up to forty five hundred dollars for a test, and if you're going to do a test, you essentially then want to go on a protocol where you might start working on your gut health, changing your diet, changing a few lifestyle habits, and you'll want to retest at some stage. So when you consider that it ends up being a very expensive way to go. And like I said, our research is in such infancy at the moment that when you do actually get the test results back, a lot of the time, what happens is it says, Okay, this species was identified, but we don't know enough about this species yet. So what the testing I feel like is more about at the moment is actually the testing helps our labs understand more about these species and what's out there, and it helps them to build their research and their findings. But whether we're getting enough knowledge from that, it's hard to say at this point. I think it's definitely a good place to start, where you can go, Okay, well this is what my gut howth kind of picture looks like at the moment.

18:36 I'm going to try these different things and can we then down the track see if it's making a difference. It can definitely work that way, but some practitioners might go or you might think, Okay, that's actually a bit too much of an investment to make at this stage. Instead, I'm going to keep track of my symptom diary, and I'm going to track of that over time while I make these changes and see how those symptoms change, and if they are changing, well great, perhaps that has been you know, much to do with what was going on in my gut, and now that I'm helping to fix that, those problems are starting to improve as well. That's so interesting that you mentioned that fecal sample testing, because I'm sure I was hearing a lot of talk about that, particularly in the US over the last twelve months or so. Is that sort of more readily available over there or is it cheaper?

19:24 Is this an Australian thing that it's yeah. Yep, it is, Like obviously it's now very much available in Australia, but in the US they're actually doing some incredible things. I went to a police jaka who's an Australian researcher who's very much into the gut health world. She was talking about something in the US which they call crapshules, and essentially what they're looking at doing is using like fecal transplants as a type of I suppose medication to help people with problems. So, for example, someone who had a really healthy micro I could take a fecal transplant from them and give it to someone else who was experiencing issues and they actually noticed improvements, which is just amazing. So because they didn't have some of that good bacter that the other person did, it was you know, improving.

20:16 Some of their symptoms. And so obviously that's very very early days and I don't know that craptiles is quite all right word for the people will be interested in doing that, but yeah, it's definitely an area that's being looked into. It's so gross, but it's so fascinating. Okay, I just wanted to also jump back to I love that you talked about symptom diaries, by the way, because obviously, even as a psychologist, that's something that we ask people to do all of the time as well, is to keep a track of their mood and whatever they're experiencing, because the fact is that most people can't remember yesterday what they were experiencing or what they were feeling, let alone a week ago or two weeks ago. So any of that tracking, you know, daily tracking is so useful for so many reasons. And so I'm assuming also just on that that there's no medicare available for that testing, and that's part of the reason it's quite expensive at the moment.

21:12 Yes, So yeah, you can't actually get that back. And I mean it's all changing at the moment because it kind of depends who you go and see, because, as you know, you could see a nutritionist, or you could work with a naturopath. There's even some holistic gps that might be offering it as well, So it does probably depend who you see and what kind of testing they choose to do. So it's worth looking into that if it's something that you do think you'd like to get a rebate on. But yes, unfortunately that's why it is quite expensive still at the moment. Yeah, yeah, good. I'm glad you mentioned that too, because I meant to ask when you said practitioner, what kind of practitioner specifically, so dietitian, nutritionist, naturopath. Yeah, dietitian nutritionist, a naturopath, even a holistic GP would even probably look into that for you. So there's definitely different options out there. And when it comes to that, you know, I think you just need to find a practitioner that really gels well with you, you know, someone that you think you can really trust, you can be open with. Obviously, you want to make sure that their qualifications are legitimate because that you know, there are sort of different varieties and people sort of say, oh, what's the difference between dietitian, nutritionist, natchpap how does it all work?

22:20 But just you know, having a chat, looking on their website, understanding a bit about them, and working with someone that you know you're comfortable with is the most important thing. Yeah, And can I just skip all the way back something that was on my mind before, just in regard to that inflammation thing, do you have any information about, for example, autoimmune disease and audo because there's so much of that around at the moment as well. Autoimmune issues seem to be really prevalent at the moment, and I'm wondering if you know what the research is if there is a link there with gut health as well. Yeah, well, look, essentially that there can be. So with the autoimmune disease, it's where your body essentially automatically produces an immune response to something. And you know, we know that with your immune system, as I said before, it's very much linked to your gut health. So you know, up to ninety percent of your immune sales actually reside within your gut. So if there are things going on in terms of you know, compromised gut health or a lot of that leaky gut, the permeability problems, inflammation in the gut that can actually translate to autoimmune diseases as well.

23:23 So there is a bit of research going on in terms of those links too, but again there's just there's so much more to come in that space. Okay, So, how then does one go about taking the first steps to improving their gut health, which I assume based on this conversation is really relevant to everybody, isn't it, like just for general health and wellbeing? Definitely? Definitely. Yeah. So essentially, when you think about your gut health, you can just think about it as affecting your own health, so every other aspect of your health, and as I sort of said earlier on, you don't need to be thinking, Okay, what supplements and what products and all kind of crazy diets and all this thing do I need to go on to work on my gut health. It really is just the simple things that you do every day that can make the biggest difference. So diet is obviously one that I'm a huge advocate for. And when we look at diet, the things that are most helpful al most supportive of gut health are things like vegetables, fruits, legumes, whole grains, extra virgin olive oil, yogat, kefia, you know, nuts and.

24:34 Seeds, oily fish. They're kind of your main ones. And you'll see that if anyone's ever heard of the Mediterranean diet before, it's very similar to a Mediterranean diet. And that's where you know, I love the Mediterranean diet because it's not essentially a prescriptive diet, but it's more a dietary pattern. So it's just the fact that they include a whole variety and a whole heap of all those different foods that I've talked about as opposed to going okay, only so many serves of this and so many serves of this, and trying to stick to anything specific. So in terms of diet, that's definitely a great place to start, but also things like making sure you get enough sleep and making sure you exercise, and of course looking after your stress levels as well, because we know how much that your mental health is linked to your gut health. It's you know, it's got its own kind of connection or communication pathway through the vagus nerve, so we know that if you're stressed, that can definitely be affecting your gut health as well. So there's lots of different aspects you can work on. But obviously for me and my work, using whole foods and dietary intervention is really really helpful.

25:41 I know you did speak specifically about that Mediterranean approach, but is it fair to say just avoiding fast foods or overly processed foods is a good starting point or is it more specific kind of like not too much red meat. You know, there's specific sort of things we should be looking out. Yeah, well, it kind of goes both ways, because yes, you know you do want to think about, Okay, I don't want to eat too much of you know, your processed and refined foods because you're not getting a lot of the things that are helpful for your gut in that sense. But it's not just about avoiding them, because what is just as are probably more important, is the nutrients you actually get from the other foods I'm talking about.

26:25 So that's where I like to say to people, have more of a focus about the good stuff that you want to pack out your diet with, because if you think, okay, well I need to eat a heap of veggies, you know, fruits, whole grains, legumes, oily, fish, extravegin, olive, oil, yo get carefea, all that sort of stuff. If you are really focusing on doing that properly at every single meal, there's not a lot of space for the other crappy stuff to come in, you know, like you process foods and all of that. So I prefer for people to have a mindset that way, rather than thinking about the things they can't eat, Let's think about all those amazing foods that we can eat, and that'll kind of outpopulate the bad things, if that makes sense for sure.

27:06 And I know that you have said that it's not all about supplements and stuff like that, but I think most people thinking of gut health go straight to probiotics. For example, is there a place for probiotics just on a day to day basis. Yeah, look, look there definitely is. So essentially, what probotics are for people that don't know is that good bacteria that we want in our guts. So we want our guts to be full of good probiotics. And if you're not getting enough of that from food, it can be helpful to use a probotics supplement. Now, whether you need to be on that long term forever, maybe not. And what we know about a lot of probotics supplements is the way that they work is that they're actually transient in their actions. So as they go through your system, they're working their magic, but they're not necessarily colonizing in your guts, so they're not actually, like you know, making a home and camping out in there like a lot of our other bacteria do. So they can be helpful.

28:04 In that they're transient in that way. But as I said, because we want such a different variety in richness, sometimes it's worth using a certain strain of probotic for a time. And we know that certain strains can be more helpful for different implications. So for example, some are better suited to people with ibs, or some might be better suited to people with skin problems, or some might be better suited to people with recurrent UTIs or something like that. So you can get different probatic strains that are better for certain things. But as you kind of go through your life journey, I suppose that's something. That you probably would want to be changing up all the time.

28:44 So they can definitely be helpful and there's definitely a place for them, but then it's also not really worth spending your money on that if you're not focusing on the daily things you can do. So, like I said, including all those foods all the time, because it's those foods that are going to mean you're getting the benefit from that probotic supplement. You're not really going to get the best benefit from the supplement if your diet is full of process and refined foods. Right, So you can't have a crappy diet and just take a probiotic and expect that to sort the whole gut thing out. Exactly, not quite how it works, unfortunately. I'm just really curious because I know our listeners will be probably similar to me, have this sort of tenuous kind of understanding but not no real depth. But things like fermented foods is something we keep hearing about as well.

29:32 And I know there's the paleo movement and all of these other approaches to diet which have brought. These things into the forefront. But where does that fit in at the gut health conversation? Yeah, really good question, because I think fermented foods are something that essentially is still whole foods. I don't quite see them still as like a supplement, but they've been news for years and years, and they're like, you know, really really old traditions fermenting vegetables and making the like keerfea and even can butcher and foods. Like that, and really what they are. Fermented or cultured or probotic foods provide you with that extra bacteria benefit, so other than just your normal whole foods, these ones have been fermented so that you actually get.

30:17 More of that bacteria. So fermented veggies are great and they're so easy to make yourself as well, but you can buy them. So just on a point for anyone that is buying fermented veggies, make sure you're buying them from the refrigerator section, not from the shelf, because if they're from the shelf, they've been pasteurized and when that happens, you essentially kill off all that live bacteria. So you want them from the fridge, and they just kind of used as like a you know, a condiment really to your fruit. So you wouldn't eat a full bowl of fermented vegetables. But as you might see, you know, it's quite common in Korean cultures where they have a little bit of kimchi with all of their meals, So it's that sort of thing, just using little bits and pieces throughout the to compliment with your meals is a really good one. In terms of the actual research behind a lot of these foods, the one that is really supported is kefia, which is a fermented kind I suppose a fermented milk drink, so I think a mix between a yogurt and a milk. It's thicker than milk, but it's not quite as thick as yogat, so it's still like a porable consistency. And kefia is I just love it because it's such an easy one you can add to your diet because it's so similar to a yogurt or a milk, but it's just got so many more probodic benefits than your yogurt or your milk. So it's an easy swap that you can use that doesn't really affect your day to day eating as much, but you're getting much more I supposed bang for your buck in terms of the probotic benefits Traditionally, perhaps.

31:48 Have you ever tried it before? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, So some people find. That when they first tried it, they were kind of turned off because it gets like an effervescent kind of texture to it. So some people say it's a bit like having a mix of milk and soda water, which to me is really not a feiling and I can understand why people perhaps may have tried it before and been like, that's not for me. But one of the companies that I work with, the Culture Co, I'm actually their official nutritionists, And the reason I love their product is because they use a special combination of probotics where they can actually produce a. Really smooth and creamy texture. And I think that's such a good way for people to start with kefia because, as I said, that effervescent kind of texture isn't that nice.

32:32 But when it's really nice and you know, smooth and creamy, you can just use it in. Place of a yogurt or in place of a milk, and you know, it's so easy to use in your everyday diet. Yeah, And I want to go back to the point that you made about taking fermented veggies from the fridge not the shelf. Can we just have that conversation in relation to kombucha, because kombucha is so popular now as well, but a lot of it is stored on supermarket shelves. Yes, yes, so people getting the benefits of those probiotics if they're buying it shelve stock. Yeah. So one thing with kimbucha is that that's actually one of the foods that it's not to say that it's not going to help your gut, but we don't really have the research to back it up just yet. So that's kind of a space that's you know, watch this space.

33:20 I think there probably will be some research to come, but at the moment, you will still get some benefit from it and the ones that deserved I've actually looked into this quite a bit myself, because I've noticed that some of the brands are now bringing out varieties that are just stored in the refrigerator. So I think what they're saying there is that you'll get added probonic benefits from the ones that are coming from the refrigerator, but you'll still get some benefits from the ones that aren't. So it's not in the same sense as fermented vegetables, where the ones that are stored on the shelves they've actually been pasteurized, which means they've had heat added to them, So that's actually killing off some of the pro boy goodness, whereas the kombucher that's sort on the shelf, I believe still does have some provate benefit. But yeah, ideally ones that are sort in the fridge are going to maintain the most or the highest quality.

34:12 Yeah, Now, while we have got time, I also want to go back to the as a psychologist, I want to go back to the food mood link because I think this is really really interesting. Can you talk us through what some of the research is around, for example, depression and gut health. Yeah, so what we're essentially looking at there as I talked about that kind of communication pathway directly between your gut and your brain, which which happens through the vagus nerve. And we know that a lot of our neurotransmitters which are involved in feelings and emotions and all that, seventy percent of them are actually produced in your gut. So without even like considering really the research, it makes sense that you know, what's going on on your gut can affect what's going on in your mental health, but also the other way around as well. Now, there's an incredible study that's been done in Australia by that police Jacka who I mentioned earlier, and it was called the Smiles Trial, and essentially the aim of the trial was to say, Okay, if I improve my diet, can I improve my depression.

35:11 And what they did was they had two different groups and all the people that were involved were deemed clinically depressed, and they either were gone into a group that had a dietary intervention where they were given a dietary intervention that was very much based around that Mediterranean diet that I talked about earlier. And then we had what essentially it was a control group, but it was a social support group. So the reason that was deemed is the control group was because with going to see someone to have a dietary intervention, so for example, you go to see the dietitian or nutritionist, you actually get that. Level of social support as well. You don't kind of just go in there and they just go this is, this is this and kind of get out of my office. That there is that aspect of Okay, you're sitting down, they're going to ask you how you are, They're going to ask you about your lifestyle, and you kind of get a bit.

35:57 Of that social support as well, So what they. Did to control that was it on the other side, they weren't actually receiving like any official counseling or anything like that. It was just social support, so just someone that could say to them, how are you, what's going on, and kind of control for that base level of social support. And what they found was that the people who had the dietary intervention had significantly greater improvements in their depressive symptoms, which is just incredible, you know, just literally from food because they were able to control for other factors. So of course, you know, we need a lot more research to happen in that space. And it's not to say that diet alone is going to be a treatment option, but to think that diet can have such a big effect and can play an even more important role in a holistic treatment option for someone and for me, I just think, you know, how incredible is that that it's something that we're already doing every single day. We're all eating multiple times a day already.

36:57 So it's just about. Making that small shift about the foods that you choose, you know, as opposed to having to go on you know, other things that can be harder to stick to like taking medications or going to see someone for counseling. Those things can be a bit harder to do and to get that compliance with. But if you're already eating every day, it can just be a few simple changes to your diet that can really have a big effect. So I think there's you know, some really exciting research to come to show how it can play more of a holistic part in a treatment plan for people for mental health. For sure. And I just think, you know, for me, for people in the mental health field, you know, we screen people and we ask them a whole lot of questions about their mood and their lifestyle and stress and all of the rest of it. But you know, when I was trained, we weren't asking them about what they were eating every day.

37:44 We weren't asking them those questions. And I think that's really important that we start to as therapists and people in mental health we start to take that I think we are now, but to really be focused on that holistic approach to health and well being. And I think that that there's so many different types of practitioners that can really all work together to have more of a holistic treatment plan for someone as opposed to just you know, looking in particular directions for the type of help that they might need. It really is more of a holistic approach. We've talked about the Mediterranean diet. Are there other approaches and I also alluded before to the paleo and all of that sort of stuff. Are there other specific approaches to food and eating beyond individual foods like the cafe and all of those, but diet approaches that are shown to improve gut health. Kito, I'm thinking keito fasting all of these things that people are talking about these days.

38:40 In terms of dietary protocols, I guess yeah. Look, I think in general the best thing to think about what is most supportive for gut health is whole foods in general. And I think where people can start to get into a bit of trouble is where they do start limiting themselves to dietary labels. So as you said, saying that I'm keto or I'm paleo or I'm this, because a lot of those dietary trends, what they do is actually cut out food groups. So for example, keto is really low carbohydrate. Now what that means is that you're going to cut out a huge portion of things like whole grains and legumes, and probably dairy as well, because you've got you know, your limit to how many carbohydrates you can have per day. But what we know is those things are so so helpful for gut health.

39:31 You know, they're full of fiber, and fiber is what your gut really needs. So I think people just need to be careful when they are following dietary trends that are cutting out whole food groups because it really is about that variety. We know that the more variety in your diet equals more variety in bacteria in your gut. So what we want is for people to aim for as many different food groups. As they can to really help populate that diversity and that richness of the good bacteria guts. So there's definitely I mean, the Mediterranean dietary pattern is not the only way you can improve your gut health. But I think it's more about thinking of it, okay, as a whole food base and you know, getting as much inclusion variety as you can as opposed to following other dietary trends that are cutting out whole food groups.

40:19 Yeah. Sure, good advice, Good advice, Thank you so much. You've been a wealth of information. I know that lots of people will really appreciate the information that you've shared with us, and I certainly have for anybody who's interested in this and looking to find out more, is are there particular websites that they can go to or your website where they can get some more information. Yeah. So I've got heaps of really great articles and also really gut friendly recipes on my website, so you can find that at www dot bodygodfood dot com dot au. And I also share a lot over on my Instagram as well, so my handle is Nutritionist Underscores Steph Getties. Nutritionists Underscore Steph Getties. I'm gonna follow you right now.

41:00 Thank you so much, Steph. Good luck with your new baby. Thank you, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. Thank you for tuning in to this special episode of Crappy to Happy. I know that I am fascinated by the links between food and mood, and I'm sure that you would have learned something that was interesting and valuable for you too. I'll put the links to STEP's website and her details in the show notes, and I'll look forward to bringing you season five of Crappy to Happy very very soon. Crappy to Happy is presented by Cash Dunn, produced by David Lensky, Audio production by Darcy Thompson.

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