Loving yourself fully with Anita Moorjani

0:02 A listener production. This is Crappita Happy and I am your host, Cas Done. I'm a clinical and coaching psychologist and mindfulness meditation teacher and of course author of the Crappita Happy books. In this show, I bring you conversations with interesting, inspiring, intelligent people who are experts in their field and who have something of value to share that will help you feel less crappy and more happy. Recently, we have been talking a lot on this show about the power of self compassion and hopefully learning to be a bit kinder to ourselves. Today's guest also has a powerful message of self acceptance and of learning to embrace who you truly are, but she shares it from a rather unique perspective. Anita Moor Johnny was diagnosed with lymphoma at the age of forty two after a lifetime of what she describes as living to please others and being afraid to truly express herself.

1:04 After a four year battle with cancer, in February of two thousand and six, Anita slipped into a coma as her organs began shutting down. Now I will let you listen to her account of what happened when she crossed over to the other side, the decision that she made to return to her sick body, how she miraculously healed, and the renewed sense of purpose that she has discovered since that near death experience. Anita went on to write a book about her experiences called Dying to Be Me, which became a New York Times bestseller, and has written two subsequent best selling books, one called What If This Is Heaven and her most recent is called Sensitive Is the News Strong? Now listen. I know some of you, like me, will find Anita's story utterly fascinating, and some of you will be deeply skeptical. So I hope that if you do listen, that you listen with an open mind, and you take from her story the messages and the lessons that resonate with you personally. Without further ado, here is my conversation with Anita more Johnny, Anita, it is such a pleasure to have you on the Crappy to Happy Podcast.

2:13 Welcome, thank you, and thanks so much for inviting me to be here. It's a pleasure to be here. I'm a fan. I read, like probably like many millions of people, I read your first book, Dying to Be Me. Back in it's almost ten years ago, isn't it? Since that it is? Hey man, it is it's nine and a half years. March of twenty twenty two will be the tenth year anniversary and we're relaunching it for the year anniversary. Yeah, oh, this is good timing. Then this is yes. And then just before we get into the to the interview, I did also then have the pleasure of seeing you when you came to Australia twenty fifteen or twenty sixteen with Wayne Dyer. Yeah, it must have been twenty fifteen, because he passed away in August of twenty fifteen.

2:58 So I remember feeling to it so that I was so grateful that I'd had the opportunity to see him, because he did pass away shortly shortly after. So, Anita, I obviously know who you are and I know what your story is for the listeners. Are you able to just share what that experience was that you had that led you to writing the book Dying to Be Me? Sure? So, I was diagnosed with lymphoma in two thousand and two. At that time, I was diagnosed with stage two lymphoma. I had a lump on my neck and apparently so that was it was biopsied and it turned out to be lymphoma. When they did scans, they found it had spread down into my breast and my chest area, so it was staged at stage two. Over a period of four years, it continued to progress as I experimented with different ways of trying to heal it. At first I didn't want to do the conventional. Much later I finally agreed to do conventional, you know, the chemotherapy and all.

4:03 But by that point the doctors told me it was far too late. I'd left it too long. But over the period of four years, basically it had progressed. The lymphoma the cancer had progressed, So lymphoma is cancer of the lymph plants, so it had progressed to the point where in February of two thousand and six, four years after diagnosis, I had tumors, some of them the size of golf balls, all over my lymphatic system, from the base of my skull back here, all around my neck, under my arms, in my chest, and all the way down to my abdomen. My body had stopped absorbing nutrition, so I weighed about eighty five pounds. My lungs were filled with fluid because my body had stopped absorbing nutrition.

4:57 My muscles had completely deteriorated, and I couldn't even hold up my own body weight, so I couldn't even stand up. I was so weak. I couldn't stand up, I couldn't walk. But because my lungs were filled with fluid, when I would lie down, if I lay flat, I would choke on my own fluid. So I was constantly, you know, I had to be propped up. I couldn't sleep. I was in so much pain and so much discomfort that on February the first, two thousand and six, I basically gave up. I had been fighting to stay alive, but at that point it felt harder to stay alive than to just let go, and so I let go, and I went into a coma. I basically died. The doctors at that point told my family that I was now in a coma and I was going through the dying process, and that I wasn't coming back, that I was not even to come out of the coma. They said I wasn't going to make it through the night, and they said my organs were now shutting down. Apparently my kidneys had already shut down, and they said my organs were shutting down one by one, and so my family were distraught, and they were around me in the hospital and knew that I was now dying. But unbeknownst to everyone around me, my soul or my essence had left my body. My

6:30 physical body was in the coma, but I had left my body, and I felt incredible, like I felt free. I was no longer feeling any more pain or discomfort or fear because I had feared the cancer, I had feared the treatment, I had feared death, I feared everything. So but now I was out of my body. I just felt so free and light and liberated, and I felt as so I was just enveloped in a feeling of just unconditional love. It was just the most incredible feeling ever. It's hard to even describe it. But I was aware of everything that was going on here in the physical even though I was no longer in my body, and I could see everything that was happening around my physical body. I could see my physical body lying on the hospital bed, but my body looked so small and insignificant compared to how I was now feeling. And I could hear everything the doctors were saying, not just in the room that my body was in, but even beyond the room. I could hear things that were being said outside down the hallway in the nurses station. I could see the doctors telling my husband that these were my final hours and I wasn't going to make it through the night. And as I continued in that realm, in

8:03 that form, in that non physical form, I felt as though I was expanding more and more, but also going deeper into that state where I started to sense other entities, other beings surround me, and they were people I knew from before, and they were helping me through this process. Like my dad was there, my dad who had passed away ten years prior, he was there, My best friend who had died two years prior, she was there. And then there were also other entities who I didn't recognize from this lifetime, but all I felt from all of them was pure unconditional love. And I experienced a lot of different things, like time is not linear there, So I just learned a lot while I was there. I understood why I was sick, why I had the cancer.

9:02 I understood how it was that every choice and decision that I had made during my life here had led to that point of me lying there on that hospital bed, dying, and I reached a point where I felt I was given a choice as to whether to come back or not. And no part of me wanted to come back because my body was sick and dying, and I'd been suffering. My family was suffering looking after me, so no part of me wanted to come back. But my dad said to me that you haven't completed your purpose yet, that you need to go back, that you still have things to do that are not yet done. But again, I didn't want to come back because my body was sick.

9:51 But it was in that moment that I started to really understand. I started to understand what my purpose was and who I was, and I started to underst stand why it was that I had got sick. You know, it was because I had never allowed myself to be who I am. I'd always I'd always made myself small so others could feel big. I'd always lived in fear. And it was at that point that my dad said to me, now you know the truth, then if you choose to go back, your body will heal very very quickly. And so it was at that point that I made the decision to come back. My dad wanted me to know that my purpose was linked to my husband's purpose and he would not be able to fulfill his purpose if I didn't go back, And so I made the choice to come back. And I had been in the coma for just thirty six hours, like for a day and a half. And when as soon as I started to open my eyes, my family were really really shot.

11:00 I was able to tell them conversations that they'd had with the doctor and things like that, and within four days, my tumor is shrank by about sixty or seventy percent. Within three weeks, the doctors were having trouble finding the cancer in my body, and within five weeks they let me go home to live my life cancer free. And that was in March of two thousand and six. It is such an incredible story. Honestly, it just gives me shivers to hear it. Also, I just want to say for anybody who has lost somebody, I think there's so much comfort in you sharing that story, that experience. You know that the amount of love that is available, you know when you cross over to that other side. Anita, how did that experience change how you live your life.

11:53 Oh, it changed it dramatically. And and what you just said also is really important. It's important for us to know that our loved ones are fine on the other side, and they are loved, and it's those that they've left behind. It's the people here that need to heal their heart. And the way this experience changed me, It's changed the way I view life and the way I view our physical body and healing and all kinds of things because what I learned, like, first of all, I watched my own body heal just within days from going from death to completely full recovery, where I was up on my feet and walking, and it took me a few weeks to gain the strength in my muscles again. But that's exactly it. It took weeks, not months, not years, but weeks, and I was out and I was walking. I'd lost all my hair to the cancer treatment, so but my hair was coming back, and within a couple of months to look at me, no one would even know that I was, that I had been on my deathbed, And so it changed how I view our bodies. I realized, first of all, that our bodies are incredibly powerful and strong, and I realized that the most powerful driving force behind our bodies is our essence or our soul, or our

13:26 spirit or our consciousness, whatever it is that you want to call it. Because from the moment that my soul understood that I had a purpose and I was not meant to cross over, it was not my time, and that I had a purpose, and that I had not realized that I'm supposed to be who I am. It was the moment that my soul understood that and made the choice that yes, I'm going to live. I'm going to come back in this body. My body became fine, and it made me realize that the way we approach our physical lives, our physical bodies and life in general, we have what I call an outside in approach, where we think that the physical is real, that if the body gets sick, we have tohal it from the physical, not even heal it, but we have to medicate the physical, and all the focuses on the physical. Even when we go to alternative practitioners, they may give you herbal remedies and all that, but it's still focused on the physical.

14:34 They're still trying to get rid of the diagnosis of the cancer or whatever the diagnosis is, I realize the most important element is your spirit, your soul. Why is it here? What is my purpose? Do I have passion in life? Do I feel I belong? Do I allow myself to express myself? Or have I been playing small and hiding myself? Or do I still have unres of trauma? You know, all these things to uncover and set our souls free is the most important thing. That's what I realized, and that is how I live my life today. And in answer to all of those questions, for most people you know that I talk to, and we talk about it on this podcast, people are so disconnected from their purpose. They don't live their life authentically.

15:24 They're people pleasing. And saying yes when they mean no and trying to be all things to all people. How is it that we become so disconnected from our true nature or our essence or purpose? So I believe that, so, speaking for myself, we actually give ourselves up trying to fit in. In other words, it becomes more important to us to be liked by other people than to follow our own heart. And it starts with just it's just ignorance. It's nobody's fault. It's so easy for us to blame our parents. You know, everybody says, oh, yeah, I'm traumatized because of my parents.

16:13 And of course there are people who are who have been abused, and so I'm not undermining that, but I think that everybody goes through the experience, even if you have good parents, that when you're young, your parents want you to fit in. Your schools want you to fit in. Everybody, even today, our governments, you know, want us to comply, and school systems want us to fit in. And it's just the way it is. And even even things like when you have something physically, like if you're physically unwell, if you're taken to the doctor, every time you're unwell, with a sore throat, with a cough, with a cold, the message that you are receiving every time you're taken to the the message you're receiving is that my body doesn't have the capacity to heal. I need external intervention.

17:08 So it's always outside intervention. What I'm being told from the outside is more important than what I have the capacity to do from the inside. So being the message you're getting is my body doesn't have the capacity to heal. When your parents want you to be obedient and listen to them and be quiet and so on. We are our brains, our little brains interpret it as that, oh I am wrong, I am bad. I need to change and be somebody different. And for us as a little person, as a child, we do it as a form of survival because our love, our roof, over our heads, our food, and everything. Our survival depends on winning the approval of our parents. So of course we want them to be happy.

18:00 And children are sensitive and they can sense when their parents are unhappy with them. So we do anything to gain their approval and their love, and in doing so, we lose ourselves. And so it's not the parent's fault because we're doing to our kids what was done to us. But if parents become aware of this, then parents can actually encourage their kids to be who they are and still continue to discipline them with a different language, you know, just a different language saying oh, it would be better for you to do this, but I still love you regardless. So our language and our culture and our paradigm doesn't actually support people being who they are. It's something that we just need to be aware of and start to change slowly.

18:54 Yeah, I recently had Martha Beck on the podcast and we talked about you know Martha obviously and yes, her recent book, Too Is discusses a lot this nature versus culture kind of dichotomy or this you know, this tension that exists, and your message is very similar obviously. You know, it's just working our way. Back to that true nature and shedding what's being kind of heaped on us by by culture, which is so much. It's it's a lot, and so it's not even just our parents. But let's say you happen to be very blessed and you have these great parents that want you to express yourself. What ends up happening is chances are when you go to school, you end up maybe not fitting in in school because you're so used to being in tune with your inner self and your intuition and all of this, and then you find that, oh my gosh, I don't fit in. The other kids are not like that.

19:54 So it is a very very what I call it's a very strong cultural field that we live in. And because what I often tell people is that in reality and truth, we are born as multisensory beings. We have at least six or more senses. What that means is that we are from the time we're born. We're very intuitive. Sometimes kids can see things, we intuit things, we know things. But all these things are then suppressed in order to fit into the school system and fit into the world, which is really unfortunate because for many of us, those other senses are actually extremely powerful, strong, and loud. For us, they're as strong as the five senses that we have come to accept and take for granted, the five senses of site, smell, hearing, touch, taste, exactly. But this cultural field where it is very percise and strong, it's very persistent and strong in convincing everyone that anything outside of those five senses is not real. It's woo woo, it's unprovable, and so on. And because we've cut off any sense beyond the five senses, for people whose other senses are equally or stronger, if not stronger, than those five accepted senses,

21:27 it becomes very hard to navigate life. They feel they don't fit in, They struggle, and sometimes they even get sick. And so for a lot of people, their physical illness are a manifestation of making themselves small. So what I mean when you make yourself small is that you cut off certain senses that you have because it's unaccepted, it's unacceptable, and you don't fit in because of that because our world doesn't, our paradigm culture field doesn't recognize that part of you. It denies it. You're forced to deny that part of you to fit in.

22:08 It is interesting, isn't it, Because we have all had experiences of times of having a gut feeling about something or having a hunch about something. But you start talking about. Really connecting with an intuitive or a sixth sense, and then people think, oh, well, that's way too out there for me. But again that's our conditioning, isn't it. Like we all have access I would say some more than others are more strongly attuned to it, but we all have that capacity to access this kind of intuitive start of us intuitive knowing. Yeah, we all do. And it's fine, Like it's great if you're navigating the world really well and you've never needed to access it. But one of the things that I realized, like during like one of the things my near death experience taught me was that I do think differently from other people and had suppressed who I really am just to try and fit in. I had always been.

23:15 I'd always been a people pleaser my entire life. And what I never knew was that my own thoughts, my own feelings actually matter, that I actually matter. I didn't know that. So I also wasn't aware that, let's say, say, other people don't think like me. So, for example, what made me a people pleaser? I didn't realize that when somebody was struggling or when someone was suffering, that I could actually feel what they were feeling, and so I would jump in and rescue them. And I was just a natural rescuer. And I'm wondering, Cass, do you find yourself jumping in and constantly rescue doing people as well?

24:03 I've been wondering about this myself, Anita, Possibly, yes, yes I can. Could I do that? Because when I would talk to people like more recently and they would say, yeah, I find I'd do that too. So basically what I found what I realized. One of the things I realized after the near death experience is that prior to me getting sick, I would always believe that everybody else's needs were more important than mine. I would always believe that everybody else's problems were more important than mine, and so I was always out helping people.

24:43 So whenever people called on me to help them, I was there. I would feel, that's what it means to be a good friend, which it is, which is great, it's noble to do that. But when I had my own problems, I would never call on them because I didn't want to bother them. I felt that, oh no, I don't want to be a bother. So even when I was sick, even when I got canceled, it was like my body was trying to give me these wake up calls. My body was trying to say first in little ways, my body would manifest little illnesses and would say, it's time to take care of yourself. Stop wearing yourself down, stop tiring yourself, Stop being there for everybody except yourself.

25:28 But I would ignore it because as soon as someone needed me, I was there, and I would say, that's what it means to be a good friend, that's what it means to be a good person. So the wake up calls would get bigger and bigger, and I would still ignore them, to the point when even I could not be there for anyone because I had to take care of myself, because I was so weak, I still would not call on other people to help me because I didn't want to bother them. I would feel, oh, no, they have issues of their own. Even though I had been there for them a thousand times, I would still feel and because I had been there for them a thousand times, I would feel, oh, they've got so many problems.

26:11 I don't want to bother them with mine. And so even when I was really sick and people would come and help me, I would feel really uncomfortable with their help, and I would think, oh, I don't want to burden them, and I would still look after them. While they were there looking after me, I would feel like, oh, I don't want to burden them, and I would let them go quickly and then still try and do what I could do. And it was not the illness. It was not cancer, not even end stage cancer, stage four cancer that healed me from my propensity of being such a people pleaser and doormat. It was death that taught me that, oh my god, it's I need to take care of myself.

27:02 Oh my gosh. That it was death that taught me that I matter, I need to take care of myself, which is why I share what I share. I want people to know that you don't need to get to the point of death to learn this. You really don't. Oh, I know so many people will be listening to this who can relate to that. Putting everybody else's needs ahead of their own, putting themselves always at the bottom of the list, even when they're sick, even when they're injured, got a broken leg. You know, it's still hopping around. It's trying to be all things to all people. And you're right, like, I mean, we don't want to get to our deathbed to have to learn that lesson.

27:52 We don't exactly. And so this is where I've realized that a lot of people really, really really struggle with saying no. They really struggle with that, And so most of the work I do today, My first book, Dying to Be Me, was really about that experience that I spoke about and what I learned on the other side. But every subsequent book I've written is really to help people who are struggling with saying no, who are still struggling because they're putting everybody else first, who still feel that it's selfish and they just don't have the tools to take care of themselves and put themselves first. So that's really what I've kind of made it my mission for people to know how important it is for them to realize. It's so important for each person to realize that you matter. Your soul came here for a purpose, and if you're constantly being a doormat and trying to fit in and being a people pleaser, your soul never gets this opportunity to go and be all that it came here to be.

29:04 I hope that you're enjoying this conversation and realizing the benefits of positivity in your own life. If you are enjoying the show, please be sure to like and subscribe so that you get notified when you epps drop and head on over to Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen and leave us a rating and review. Anita, you are obviously a very spiritual person, but I not In your most recent book, which I've been really loving, Sensitive is the new strong that you talk about. Even in your spiritual life before your near death experience, you were striving to be the right kind of spiritual, and I really wanted you to talk about that if you could, because I think I know people who could relate to this.

29:58 Can you share about how, even in your spirituality you were kind of trying to be good at it? Yes, So I was always trying really hard to be a spiritual person, and I thought that, Oh, I need to do this. I need to meditate more, I need to pray more. I need to go and adopt more spiritual practices, I need to do more charity work. And everything I was doing was with the view of being more spiritual so that one day when I cross over, I would have a good afterlife that I would not, you know, have a negative afterlife, or have a bad life review, or have bad karma, or come back in another life with bad you know, in a life that's where I suffer. So everything I did was to ensure I had a good afterlife and to create good karma and to be really spiritual. When I died, I realized, oh my god, I have been living half a life because I've been so worried about the afterlife and the message that I had been sending myself by thinking that I had to keep working at being more spiritual. The message I'm sending my own spirit is that you are not good enough the way you are. You need to work hard at being a better person, at being more spiritual.

31:24 When in actuality, your soul, your spirit comes into this world as a pure soul, as a beautiful, pure soul. It is a facet of God, and you have to allow it to shine and be who it is. And basically we just have to allow our spirit to shine and be who it is. And now I realize that being yourself means allowing your spirit to shine through you. That's what being authentic is. It's following your purpose, realizing that you are a spiritual being, that you don't have to work hard at being spiritual. You are spirit In other words, being yourself and being spiritual are one and the same thing. And you know, people sometimes say to me, but what about people who commit crimes and so on?

32:18 And I say, they're not being themselves. They have lost their way. The point is, it's about being who you are and about being who your spirit came here to be. Your spirit did not enter this world saying I'm going to go rob banks or kill people or do this or do that. It did not come in saying that it came in. It came in full of love, saying I want to express myself and be all that I can be. That's what being spiritual is. And somehow, through trauma or whatever that happened to them, they lost their way. So really it's about finding yourself self, being yourself, being authentic, that's what being spiritual is.

33:05 So, you know, even if somebody doesn't relate to the meditating and the praying, I think there are people who can relate to this whole striving and doing. As you said before, like being a good friend means I have to put everybody else's needs ahead of my own, and to be a better person and to be a better parent. There's all of this doing and striving and self sacrificing and losing touch with the fact that our own needs and our own desires and our own you know, preferences, opinions, everything is just as important. Yes, And I will really want to add one more thing here. That a common thing that people tell me very often all the time. A person will say, but I'm a parent of two children or three children. It's all very well you saying this. You don't understand you don't have children. So here's the thing that I have to say to you. If you're a parent, how did I become a people pleaser. I learned from my own parent, my own mother. We learn from who our parents are, not what they say. If you are being a people pleaser, sacrificing your life for your children, that is what they're going to learn to do. If you teach them and show them that it is important to honor your soul and be who you are and take time off for yourself, and then when you're with them, you are refreshed and your energy is big, and you're full of love and not frustrated and tired. Your children will learn the importance

34:37 of doing that for their children. So that's what I would like to say. Yes. And in your most recent book, Sensitive is the New Strong, you have made the distinction between somebody who is intuitive and somebody who is an EmPATH. And I really want to talk to you about this because I hear the word EmPATH being used around the place. Oh, I'm such an EmPATH And I've always thought, what is that just mean? I'm really considerate and caring and compassionate towards other people. What is your definition of what it really means to be an EmPATH? Okay, so people can be compassionate and caring even if they're not an EmPATH. People have different levels of sensitivity.

35:22 Some people are less sensitive to their surroundings and the people in their surroundings, you know. And when I say that, it means that you're less bothered by who is in your area. You're less bothered by crowds, you're less bothered by noise. So some people are less sensitive to their surroundings and other people are more sensitive to their surroundings. The more sensitive to your surroundings, what that means is that when there are people and animals in your surroundings, you can actually intuit or feel what they're feeling. And that's what makes you more sensitive. So, you know, people who don't like being in crowds, the reason they don't like being in crowds is because the energies of the people around them bother them. Because they can feel it.

36:12 They can feel it, or they know when somebody is depressed or disturbed or somebody or if somebody has negative intentions. So the more sensitive someone is, the more they are affected by their surroundings or the more they can sense their surroundings. Also, you have sensitive people who can sense the needs of animals and they are very good with animals, or they can sense the needs of people who are needy and sick, and so they're very good around them. So now when you go take it up a notch to empaths, the difference between an EmPATH and a highly sensitive person is that an EmPATH actually absorbs the energies around them. So it's not just that they can sense them and know what people are feeling, but their energy literally melds with the energy of the people around them, and if they're not aware of it, they take on someone else's energy and they can leave the room and leave the space feeling depressed and not understand why. So when they are an aware EmPATH and they understand what their energy is doing, they can leave the room saying, ah, you know, if they feel depressed or anxious, they can leave the room and go, oh, okay, I'm feeling anxiety.

37:37 I didn't do anything to cause me anxiety. I must have picked it up from other people. And then they work to actually letting it go. So the difference between an aware EmPATH and an unaware EmPATH is that an unaware one will pick up all the energies of other people and act on them as if it's their own. They'll act out they'll be like, oh my god, I'm feeling anxious. Oh feeling depressed, and then they'll take it on as if it's their own and then start to work towards like, oh, I need to release anxiety. I need to release depression. What trauma have I gone through? But no, what you need to do is realize it's not yours and just do a few things to release it because it's not yours. So that's my definition of an EmPATH. An EmPATH is not only sensitive to the energies around them, but they actually absorb them into their own energy field.

38:33 So that's really interesting, isn't it, Because how would somebody necessarily know, Like somebody might be listening to this now and going, oh, well, I'm anxious all the time. Maybe it's not me, but maybe it's them. So how does somebody, So. Do you discern it by knowing that? For example? And if you are so, here's the one thing I have, the vised a quiz, which is free. It's on my website, so that people can discern whether they're an EmPATH or not. And there's thirty four questions. And the couple of people who really put this term out there in the public, who brought people's awareness to being an EmPATH is doctor Judith Orlov and doctor Elaine Aaron, and so even if you were to look online, there are quizzes that determine whether you're an EmPATH or not. But when you describe, like say, for example, when I just described it, if a person is an EmPATH and they heard me describing it, they would immediately go, yes, I am, because they would know that when they walk into a room, whether their mood or their energy level changes right away. They when you're an EmPATH, if no one's ever described it to you, you don't know what's going on. You don't know why you go through the these mood energy shifts, why you get depleted so easily, why you can get high so easily,

40:05 why it is that everything in your life can be going totally fine, but then you just feel really blah. And it could be because of the energies around you. You know, all the people right now are anxious because of lockdown and so on, and you could just be picking up on their energies. And it's things like if you have trouble watching the news, if every time you hear the newscaster with that loud music, you know that loud news type of music and the new and the news anchor is saying breaking news, breaking news for every little thing. I mean, they could even be saying that breaking news. There's a litter of puppies that are out loose or something. But as soon as they have that music and the breaking news and you feel that anxiety, chances are you're an empass where things like that that are that from the outside are impacting your energy field, and then it affects you that even when you walk away, you're still kind of carrying that energy with you. Also, it's when something happens to someone, even on TV. Let's say someone is bleeding out and someone falls down or gets cut, and the first thing you do is you go and grab that part of your own body, you know, like you go, oh, you know, you just do that on your own body, or you cringe at something that's happening to someone else, You're actually feeling it in your

41:38 own body. You're physical, so it's a very tangible, tactile thing. So an EmPATH when this is described to them, they're like, oh my god, that's me. Yeah, okay, So I imagine that feels like it could be very heavy could really weigh people down, particularly if they're not aware of it. And I know in your book that you written this book pretty much especially for these people, right, not just the empaths, but anybody who is sensitive or intuitive. So what are the upsides? What are the upsides picking up on everybody's energy? So the upside is, so I'm going to say this for the empaths. What I would want empaths to know is that the reason you're this way is because actually your energy is tremendously strong. It's way stronger. Your energy field is bigger than everybody else's energy field, which is why you can feel everybody else's energy. The reason you struggle is because we live in a world that is not necessarily ready for people with energy. Feels like that because empaths feel pain very easily, They feel the hurt of other people very easily. Empaths, by nature are very gentle on the planet and very gentle on other people, because they feel if they impose pain on someone, they feel it themselves, so they don't and so the world

43:10 needs more empaths. And so this is why I wrote this book. I wrote this book because I believe that there are not enough empaths in leadership positions. And there's a reason why there's not enough empaths in leadership positions because empaths find it too painful to be out there. But I personally feel that empaths are the human two point zero, and that if we had more empaths out there, we would have a very different world and a very different paradigm. We would have a very different reality. And so I start with saying that we need to redefine what the word strength means to us. When somebody is sensitive, when somebody is too empathic, we actually say that they're weak.

44:00 What if we were to reverse it. What if we realized that whenever we're saying that someone is sensitive, when we say to our kids, don't be so sensitive. When we say to young boys, you have to man up, boys, don't cry, what are we doing. We're beating the sensitivity out of them. What are we doing We're raising unempathic children to become more ruthless and competitive. When we say that sensitivity is a weakness and that you need to be more ruthless to survive, we are actually saying to people that people who lack empathy, who lack compassion, who lack sensitivity are actually the ones who are strong and who will get ahead and who will survive. This is the message we're sending out into the world. And then we wonder why our world is so messed up, and we need to help people who are compassionate and sensitive to actually realize that what they have is what our future needs for our own survival. And therefore it's a strength and it needs to be encouraged, and it needs to be preserved, and we need more of it out there.

45:14 But also they need to know how to protect themselves and to set those boundaries and to not be completely depleted exactly. And that is why I wrote this book. That's the inspiration behind it. It's to teach empaths and sensitive people how to be out there in the world and not constantly feel deflated, defeated, shamed and all of these things. Yeah, and I'm conscious of your time, but can we just wind it back a little bit, because there'll be some people who relate really strongly to that EmPATH thing, and there'll be other people going, Okay, you've lost me, now, Anna, you've lost me cast like this is all a bit out there for me. But each and every one of us to go back to what we were talking about before, or has that sixth sense we all have if you consider it to be like a longer spectrum. We all have a level of sensitivity. We all have different capacities to or different levels of access. I guess to that intuitive knowing, and I think we could every single person could benefit from having more access and more trust in our intuitive knowing. And I hear people all the time say, how do I tell the difference between when I'm trying to be more intuitive when I'm trying to trust myself and be authentic? How do I tell the difference between my inner voice and fear? Like, how do I discern intuition and like anxiety? If I'm having an alarm bell,

46:47 is that just fear or is that actually like an intuitive knowing that this is dangerous? Have you got an answer for that, a need or something that you use to make that distinction. For yourself in a way you've answered it. If it's it's not your intuition, your intuition never gives you fear and anxiety. Your intuition always gives you a way out of fear and anxiety. Your mind or external circumstances gives you fear and anxiety, but your intuition will always help you find a way out of it. So the thing to do is always follow what feels really good, what feels positive. The minute a message that comes in says, oh, no, that's just your mind playing tricks on you, that message is your mind playing tricks on you. That message that, oh, it's just your mind, that's the one that's your mind.

47:44 Or if you get a really positive, inspiring insight and then you get this message that goes you're just wishful thinking, that again is your mind playing tricks on you. So even if you are about to face danger, if you're about to face danger, your intuition doesn't give you a scary message that makes you feel anxious that danger is ahead. The way it does it is that it gives you a way to navigate that danger in a way. So, for example, if you're about to if you're about to run into another a car or a truck, your intuition isn't going to say that you're about to run into a truck, No, because that's going to make you fear.

48:33 Your intuition will say stop right now, and so you'll stop, and then you'll see, Oh my god, my intuition helped me from running into that truck. Yeah, so your intuition never gives you messages that increase your anxiety and fear. It gives you messages that decrease it. Many years ago, probably early two thousands, I did a two year course. I don't know if my listeners have ever heard me say this before, two year course in what was called a Diploma of Applied Parapsychology. It was essentially all the woo woo. It was the. Reading and the energy clearing and the white light and I and over that two years, I mean, I just loved it. I really my intuition really expanded. So I say that for anybody listening that it is even if you think you're not one of those people. We all have the capacity, I believe, to expand our own intuitive sense.

49:29 And I had some really woo woo experiences like I had some really just well you call it down. I know a lot of people call it downloads. It's just knowings, like just it's like information just planted in my consciousness from out of I don't even know where. So I like to share with people that everybody, and I'm a psychologist, and I follow the science and everything I do is evidence based in terms of therapy. But I think we all need to be open to the idea that there is some stuff that science is catching up with, and maybe science hasn't caught up with, but there is there's a balance here. I had this conversation with Martha Beck too. There is a space in my life for both the spirituality and the science and what is proven and what is perhaps not yet proven. So I spend time every day meditating and with the white light and with the charcoal balancing.

50:24 It's just a habit for me. Now do you have I guess practices in your own life and need that you use to enhance your own intuition? So there's a there's a lot of things that I do every day. One of the things I do is I love journaling. And the reason I love journaling is because it helps me to It actually helps me to improve my intuition a lot, like a lot, and because when you when you actually while I'm journaling, it feels like I'm getting down loads. So it's a really good exercise for me. And then whenever I have any synchronicities happen, I will immediately write about it, journal about it, because the more that you are aware it's happening, the more you notice things, the more you kind of are aware that, oh, this happened, and this happened, and this happened, the more you open yourself up for more and more to happen.

51:23 And so my near death experience happened fifteen years ago, and it blew me wide open so that you would think that, oh, so why do I need to do it? The reason I do it is because I don't want to lose it. Because this physical world is extremely persistent. Because I'm in the public eye, i talk about it, and whenever I talk about it, of course I'm going to get naysayers and debunkers and people like that. And because this world is so persistent, and when you get naysayers and debunkers, sometimes it feels like they're trying to convince you that what you're saying is not true, or they're almost trying to take that gift away from you.

52:05 So I never want to fall into that or lose my own connection, which I made fifteen years ago, and so I do a lot of things to stay in that space. So journaling is one of them. The other thing I do is I often do what I call a grounding exercise, where I do visualization where I visualize myself connected to the universe and connected to Mother Earth. So there's this light going all the way down, coming through me and down into the earth. And this grounding exercise is really important for me because we have to realize that even though we are spiritual beings or physical beings, that technically, those of us that are into this spirituality, we actually have one foot on each side. And I always tell this to people. They always have to remember that I have one foot on each side. The people that struggle the most are the ones that have either both feet in the spiritual where they are totally like they cut themselves off from the world and they feel that they need to be totally spiritual. And so what happens is they feel that, oh, I shouldn't be earning money.

53:26 I shouldn't because money is not spiritual. And so what they end up doing is they end up not being able to pay the rent. And also people like that they are unable to hold down a job because they're not structured enough because they think they're a spiritual being. And so if people come here renouncing this world and thinking they have to renounce all earthly things to be spiritual. They're missing the point of being here. But at the same time, if people are here only stuck in the physical without realizing you're also a spiritual being, you struggle because you start to fear things that are physical, and you've cut off your connection to your higher self and your intuition and to the other side. So my biggest practice every day is this exercise of connecting up above and connecting below, so that every day it reminds me that I am a spiritual being but having a physical experience.

54:32 I love that I do a similar thing. So I love hearing that and I totally agree, like you can be considered yourself to be a very spiritual person. But our work here is to be done on the material, on the physical level. We're here for as long as we're here to work in a material world using whatever gifts we have available to us. Thank you for the work that you do. I know that this is going to be really resonate strongly with a lot of listeners. Anita, the book is the latest book? Is Sensitive is the new strong? You have two others dying to be me which I just obviously loved. And what's the second one? There was another one? It's called what if this is Heaven? This is?

55:14 They are all available? And how else can people get in touch with you? We'll put it in our show notes? But where can they look you up online? Anita? Oh, thank you? So they can look me up at my website Anitamurjani dot com. I also have what I call a sanctuary where, which is like a platform, like a membership platform for like minded people to come together and connect where I have all my courses and everything, and that's called the Anitamurjani Sanctuary dot com. Amazing. Thank you so much for your time today. I truly appreciate it. Oh, thank you so much. You asked some really great questions, So thank you.

55:57 If you are interested to find out more about Anita's story or in joining her online community, you can check it all out at her website Anitamojanni dot com. That's a n T A M R ja ni dot com. Her books are available in all good bookstores. You can follow her on social media. Her Instagram is at Anita Moore Johnny. Her Facebook is Anita dotmore Johnny. As always, please come and hang out with me on social media. I'm mostly on Instagram Cast Done underscore xo, or on Facebook cast Done dot xo, and my website is castone dot com. My big news is.

56:37 That all three of my Crappy to Happy books are now available as audiobooks exclusively on Audible. You can download them for free with a thirty day free trial, or if you're an Audible member, go and add them to your cart right now. If you would prefer a paperbook and signed by me, you can order those from my website, or of course you can find them in any bookstore. I cannot wait to catch you in the next episode of Crappy to Happy Listener