Money advice for Millennials with Victoria Devine

0:02 A listener production. This is Crappita Happy and I am your host, cast Doun. I'm a clinical and coaching psychologist and mindfulness meditation teacher and of course author of the Crappita Happy books. In this show, I bring you conversations with interesting, inspiring, intelligent people who are experts in their field and who have something of value to share that will help you feel less crappy and more happy. Today I am chatting with Victoria Devine, who is a multiple award winning financial advisor helping thousands of people change their relationships with money. She is young, she is influential, vibrant.

0:45 And she's a driven entrepreneur who is passionate about empowering young women, in particular with the tools and confidence they need to change their financial situation. Most would know her as the founder and host of She's on the Money, an incredibly popular, topping personal finance podcast for millennial women. She is now also the author of a book by the same name, She's on the Money. She is the director and co founder of Zella, which is a thriving financial advice, accounting and finance broking practice based in Melbourne Here in Australia, so Victoria and I chatted about all the challenges that face young people when it comes to finance and investing these days, particularly with skyrocketing property prices.

1:27 We talked about the importance of. Really knowing and perhaps changing your money's story in order to get ahead financially, how you can absolutely start investing even with minimal spare cash in those very lean early years of your career. And Victoria shares some really great, down to earth practical advice about how you can enjoy life and work towards financial freedom. They do not have to be mutually exclusive. I hope that you enjoy my chat with Victoria. Victoria Divine, Welcome to the Crappy to Happy Podcast. Such a pleasure to have you here today, Cas. Thank you for having me. I'm really excited. I love having another podcaster on the show. One podcast or to another, you're all across the podcasting format. But Victoria, I want to talk to you today about your brand new book, which is called She's on the Money, same name as the podcast. Congratulations by the way on the book.

2:20 It's thank you. It's great and I know the effort that goes into writing them, so well done. You have your own so that would make a lot of sense, my friend. It does, it does. Oh god, I know, But Victoria, tell me what inspired you, first of all to become a financial advisor. So way back when I wasn't a financial advisor, I actually worked in a space called organizational psychology, which is essentially the science of people at work. And I was really young and not very good at money myself, and found myself in a few sticky conversations with people a lot older than me, asking questions about engagement and asking questions about finances that say, oh, well, we're not you know, we're not engaged at work, not because of my boss, don't worry, Victoria's actually just because I've got a mortgage paid.

3:08 I'm really stressed about it. And I'd be like, oh, I don't know how to. Have this conversation. So I started learning a little bit more about finance, and from there I just kind of fell in love with it and found myself in a position where I was able to migrate over to financial advice instead of working in orgsych And I guess I've never looked back. That's so interesting, isn't that? I just know so many stories, I mean, myself included where we go off on a path and then realize, oh, this isn't actually the thing for me. There's this other thing that actually interests me a whole lot more, and that's how we find our place. So you make it really clear, and this is the thing that really interests me about money stuff. You say right up front that everybody has a money story, and I think that is so true and that has such an impact on our financial life. I'm curious to know, Victoria, what's your money story?

4:03 Oh what was your money story? So historically I wasn't so good with money when I was young. I did get myself into some personal debt but managed to put myself in a position where I got out of it, which was really good, but it definitely. Wasn't a positive one. And I know exactly what it feels like to feel sick at night because you're like, well, how am I going to pay off this debt? It feels really overwhelming. So it's not as though I've come from a position where. I'm like, oh, I'm actually the Holy greal of money, like I'm not. And I actually despise being put on that pedestal because people are like, oh, you must be perfect at finance. I'm like, no, no, no, no, I'm telling you to do what I didn't do. Like I'm telling you to do the things that I wish someone else had told me to do. So I think it's one of those things where I didn't have a positive money story and now I do, and it's one of those things that.

4:51 Really, you know, I love sharing with other people. Yeah, I love that too, And I think you're right there can be so much pressure in that, can't They like that when you start talking about a subject and people expect that you've got it all together, like, it can be. Yeah, it can really be a lot of pressure and you should know. What you're talking about. And I'm like, yeah, well like I do, but it doesn't mean I'm perfect. Yes, exactly exactly. And your experience makes you so much more relatable when you can really connect with the very real struggles that people experience, I think that that's really it's kind of important. Yeah, exactly, like I just I also feel like to be able to share the empathy from a really real place, especially when it comes to money, has been really essential because I think people nowadays especially really see straight through people who aren't as authentic when it comes to struggle and journey, and I just think it's really important that people know that about me in addition to knowing what I have to share and provide.

5:49 So let's just talk about that when it comes to helping people to better manage their money, and we'll get to some of that, you know, the nuts and bolts of that in a minute. But how important is it for people to understand their psychology like that story about money. I think it's really important. Like it is the first chapter of my book, it is the first podcast of my podcast. It is the thing that I say to every single one of my clients, like, if you don't know where you're starting from, how on earth do you know where you are going? How do you know what the next step is when you don't even know what direction you are coming from. So for me, it is honestly one of the most essential parts of understanding your money journey, because if you start setting goals and money goals and money habits based on not knowing yourself, they're not going to stick because they're not actually.

6:40 Made for you. They're made for what you think you are instead of what the reality is. So as much as it can be hard, and overwhelming. It's so many people just want to put their heads in the sand and not deal with it at all. The second you start dealing with it, the second you become far more empowered when it comes to all things money. And so when we talk about money story, thinking there might be somebody listening here going, what are you talking about? What do you mean my money story? Can you how do you describe that? So a money story is the inherent thoughts, behaviors, beliefs, and values that you personally hold around money. And when you start talking about money stories, research actually tells us that you start to build your money story at the age of seven years old.

7:24 And you do this because you. Start to learn about what is surrounding you and what you know your parental figures. Are making decisions on money with. And it's one of those things that you don't realize it, but it's inherent, Like you don't actually have a choice in your money story. The choice you have in money story is what it's going to be in the future, not what it was. So it's really important to draw that line in the sand and say I had no control over that, but I have control over the future, and I guess A good example of. That is when someone is young and you. Know, they're eighteen and they've just got their first credit card and they've got no worries in the world. They're just tap happy. It might be because they've grown up in a really wealthy family and money's never been an issue. It's never been something that's caused anxiety. And then you might see it on the flip side, someone in their thirties who's been really successful in their career financially and they actually save every single dollar because they still have this frugal mentality because that's what they actually learned growing up that money was scarce and you have to hold on to it, and investing is scary, and buying a property is scary, so they just hold it all in their savings account, and even though they can afford a different lifestyle, they don't live it because they just still feel a lot of anxiety around their money story. So to me, that's what money stories are, and every single person has a different one. So regardless of how you grew up, Like I have a little sister, our money stories are going to be different, even though we have the same parents.

8:51 So I think it's really important to remember that your journey is unique, and that's why it's important to understand that before we even try to set a budget, before all we try to change our future financial habits, because if we can't understand where we're coming from, literally, how do we know where we're going. So let's talk about that younger generation. Then I am well into my forties. There's a whole lot of people now coming out of UNI, getting their first jobs, buying their first car, saving for a house. Like, they're in a whole different situation than the one that I was in. What are the challenges that face younger people Victoria trying to really get a good foundation in building a solid financial future.

9:36 I think it's all about This is going to sound so bland, and I apologize in advance because it's not what you want to hear. You want to hear some super sexy answer, and the reality is it's just about budgeting. It's about effectively budgeting and working out what your goals are. Because the biggest challenges that we face as millennials one of the stereotypes that are put on us because we are apparently not as good at money management as previous generations, when in reality, property has never been more expensive. And when we say property has never been more expensive, we're not just saying it's increased in price. We're actually discussing the fact that you know, historically, I remember when my dad talks about purchasing his very first property, and he's much older than you are. Sorry, Dad, but a house for him costs double his income each year.

10:25 But for me, that's never going to be feasible. A house for me now, as a millennial's going to cost ten, twelve, fourteen times my annual salary, which is wild. And I think too many times people keep saying like, oh, yeah, the interest rates are so low. Millennials have it so easy. Don't you remember when interest rates were twenty two percent? And you go, yes, But at the crux of it, houses will double your annual salary, and now they are ten to twelve times the annual salary, which makes them almost completely out of reach for many. And I think that that's something that we just don't even can see when talking about millennials in entitlement and property, because it's the great Australian dream to own you're inn home, and we all, like, not all of us want that, but we all want some level of financial security and stability, and that for us as an Australian, it has been a way that has been fed to us to create that.

11:19 And when we get told like, oh, I'm so sorry, Victoria, like you're not in a position to ever be able to afford a home, that's heartbreaking because you don't just feel like, oh, I can't buy property as an asset class because you're not a financial advisor. You're not like, oh, okay, that doesn't actually matter. There's a whole heap of other asset classes I could invest in. You go, wow, I'm never going to be financially secure, when in reality, property is just an asset that we purchase to create wealth and if it's not the right asset for us, we should be looking elsewhere. And I feel like historically, as in over the last five years, so maybe not the true definition of historically, but we've been fed these I guess quotes about how millennials are all about smashed avocado. But I am yet to see a millennial who has stopped going to their twenty dollars Saturday branches and at the end of the year been able to afford a home because of it. So I think that there is a lot of I guess, stereotyping going on, and we don't get the credit that we deserve when it comes to financial money management.

12:21 Because if we then look. Into how many investors there are, millennials as a generation are now the biggest investors. So even though we can't get into the property marketers easily, we are actually investing in a lot of other asset classes and looking for different ways to diversify our wealth, which I think is a much better story. But it doesn't look as sexy on newspapers, so maybe they'll keep up with the AVO mentality. Well, I'm really glad that you brought that up, because I was going to say I bought my house when my first house when I was twenty four, and you know, good on me. I didn't actually save that money. I inherited about ten grant right, and I think my salary at the time is about forty thousand and which is pretty good at the time. And I bought a house for one hundred and thirty thousand dollars. And when I look around today, not at property prices, I feel my heart breaks for I've got a fifteen year old daughter, you know, like I think, how will those kids ever be able to get themselves into property?

13:22 So I'm really glad to hear you saying it's all fine. There are other things that you can do, and there are other ways that you can invest. So how can younger people invest so that they can start to build that solid foundation. Yeah, So investing in general is really fickle because there are lots of different ways to invest, and there are lots of different strategies and lots of different opinions. And to be honest, I don't have an opinion on exactly how millennials should invest, because they should all be investing differently based on their goals and their investment risk profile, and you know how it actually aligns to their values and their future. For me, I think it's really important to just educate ourselves around what investing can do, because giving ourselves that foundational motivation to create that is really important because too many times people are like, I need to save up for my first home. I need to save up one hundred thousand dollar deposit, which honestly is so much money it is wild, But then I need to take on this massive debt, when in reality, if we could just at twenty like, you've got a fifteen year old daughter. So let's use an example of she's maybe just finished high school, and then she gets out of high school, she's twenty years old, and she's you know, had a couple of years of mucking around, and now she's going to take her finances seriously.

14:37 And she's twenty. If she started investing five hundred dollars each and every single month, I know that's a lot of money, but if you're working part time and you are you know, hustling, you can actually make that happen. It's not too unfeasible. Five hundred dollars a month. If she hypothetically just saved that amount all the way until retire she'd have about two hundred and forty thousand dollars saved, which we know has that's not enough money to retire on, but that sounds like a pretty good amount of savings. But if we look at it in the investment sense and go, okay, cool, if that was compounding at seven point five percent each and every single year, which is a pretty conservative like estimate, instead of saving, and we invested it, she'd actually have an investment portfolio of one point two million dollars. So that is the difference between saving instead of investing. You would either have two hundred and forty thousand dollars or one point two million dollars.

15:37 And this time is the same, the. Money is the same, the investment that you are making is the same, but that compounding growth over that period of time has essentially made you a million dollars worth of free money. And now I call it free money because it sounds a lot sexier than just being like compounding interest. But the exciting thing about that is. There are so many different ways to do that, different ways, different apps, different strategies, and my community talk about a lot of them. So my community are into things like micro investing, which is where you can start for as little as like five dollars on platforms like Shares, these Rays, Spaceship, Clover like. There are so many of them, and I adore all of them, not because I'm recommending them as a financial advisor, but because they also help you build your financial literacy.

16:28 Then there are those middle ground platforms like robo advice. I have a robo advice platform with six Park because I've partnered with them to create that because I just honestly see financial advice or specifically investment advice as being so far away from being attainable for millennials. It's not funny with the average statement of advice in Australia being three two hundred dollars and most millennials feeling like they should start their investment journey with five thousand dollars. Like that, that's telling you that you need to pay and a financial advisor more than half of your savings to even begin. That makes me feel sick. So we have created this investment platform that can help millennials start investing in a well diversified share portfolio that is well managed for like ten dollars a month, which is I think a pretty good money win.

17:19 And then there are different ways to manage. It yourself that you don't have to sign up to a platform that manages it for you. You could go on buy. An ETF, which is an exchange traded fund, which is essentially buying a stock that is already well diversified in a number of different shares, or you could give it a crack at buying individual shares on your own and making your own portfolio. But I think the most that sounds overwhelming. I promise you it's not. Buying shares online is literally as easy as shopping. On the iconic. It is not hard. We just have to know where to. Go, and to know where to go, we actually just have to educate ourselves on what we want to do in the first place. Yeah, that's so, that's amazing that people can invest in shares for such a small investment. I only recently, myself, to be honest, got onto ETFs and I was it was actually fun for me to start jumping on and doing research and knowing that I just needed five hundred bucks or a thousand bucks, you know, which is pretty manageable for most people. Exactly to start to buy these little share bundles and to start feeling like you're getting ahead.

18:24 And I mean hearing that from you is probably far more empowering than hearing it from a financial advisor, because you were like. Of course, she's into shares. But when it came to that. Did you find it really hard to research? Like or was it all easily accessible? Like where did you start? I went to Blackrock and Vanguard were two that were recommended, and just as or whatever they are, they're kind of companies that have two. Of the biggest asset managers in the world. There you go. See you've got the lingo, and so you can look at you can look them all like you can see what sort of companies they invest in, and you can see see how much one costs. So whether it's twenty dollars or seventy dollars, you can work out how many you can afford for your five hundred bucks or in a thousand dollars, and then you just I literally opened up this share investment account with my own bank I've happened to bank with. Well, I don't need to plug the bank, but any of the big banks.

19:16 Yep, they all have their own platforms. Right, And then it was just transfer the money by the shares done by the UTF exactly. It is as easy as online shopping. And I think too many times we get what is called analysis paralysis, where we just feel like there's too many options out there and we just don't know where to start. And I think it's okay to dabble, Like a lot of my community talk about how they just begin on a micro investing platform and then graduate to something different once they feel like they are more financially literate or secure or maybe they've used their micro investing platform to save their first five thousand dollars so that then they can go buy a whole heap of bundles of ets. But it's completely different for everybody.

19:59 But I think the most importanortant thing here is remembering that it's actually about your values and you can select things that work for you instead of looking at the whole investment market as a whole. You can go, okay, cool, what are my values? Okay, Victoria, I'm an ethical investor, Like I don't want to buy things that are in coal or mining or things that support animal cruelty. So I go, okay, cool, I'm going to start there and find that niche and find what works for that. What types of assets can I buy that fit with my values? And then I knock off the table the ones that are probably too expensive for me or the ones that maybe aren't as exciting, and then I'm left with a far smaller list of things to pick from. And then that's where we can begin.

20:43 So it's not necessarily about going, well, I don't know what share. To pick, Victoria. It's like, well, actually, the question here is what are we trying to achieve? Why are we investing? Who are you as a person? What types of things do you want to invest in? Because I think the most important thing as well is being about what you're purchasing. Like if you said to me, Victoria, you're purchasing bitch p shares, I'd be like, Oh, I don't really care about that. I don't really want to do that. I don't really have any connection to that. But if you said to me. Hey, Victoria, you're buying this cool company that has this really great resourcing program and they are sustainable and they do this for the environment, and you know you're actually already interested in this business, I'd be like, oh, okay.

21:24 Can I watch them? And I get excited about the journey. So find something that you personally connect with, because then checking your portfolio isn't a drag, it's actually a bit exciting because you get to see what the market is up to. Yeah, it's fun. It actually is really fun, and you're right, it's really empowering. Exactly it is. I want to. Ask you because I know that you have a largely female audience, and so do why young women and men getting into a relationship, you know, pooling their finances, getting engaged, getting marriedly, looking to buy a house? What do you think that young people can do? This is going to sound like really cynical, but a lot of relationships don't last.

22:08 Like fifty percent of marriages and in divorce, Cass, like, we can't not be cynical around this. Stuff, right right, Nobody wants to think about it or admit it. Everybody thinks that's not going to be them. And I'm really interested to know what should young people be doing. Would you recommend for protecting their assets in the case that that relationship goes pear shaped? Yeah, so I think that there are a number of things. So if you've gotten into a relationship when you're really young, what you create in that relationship is referred to as a marital asset. Now, I'm not a state planning lawyer, nor am I a divorce lawyer, but I do know that I have gone through a lot of diorces with a lot of my clients. And if you created that asset inside your marriage or inside your relationship, you are actually meant to split it in some way, shape or form.

22:55 But if you, for example, Cass, you said you had an inheritance, So let's use that as an example. Say every example, you're young and you've got this inheritance and you've used it to buy your first home, and then you meet the man of your dreams and you've decided to get married. That's an asset that you probably want to protect. Like I purchased that, or you purchase that with an inheritance, that means that it's probably a little bit more meaningful than just your first home as well. So we want, probably it's very exciting, a binding financial agreement, which says, if we are going to separate at any point in time, this is what we are agreeing to in the future. I've done full podcast episodes on binding financial agreements, or bfas as we call them for short. But the reason I love these is because you get to sit down with the person that at the time you adore, at the time you love and talk about Look, I know that hopefully this never happens.

23:48 No one goes into a marriage hoping that it ends right. Nobody, So sitting down with the person you love and going all right, well, I just want to make sure that if everything went south, we're both in the best possible position. And while you're in a good place and while you have a positive relationship, and while you assumably want the best for each other, you can go all right, well, cas if we broke up, you could have this and I would do this, and this is how we'd split things. And then we both sign that agreement so that when things go south and they aren't your most favorite person in the world, you can go no, we have this agreement that we both agreed to when we both wanted the best for each other. And I think that that is a really nice way of looking at it and going no. Hopefully it's just a document that gets put in a draw that we never have to look at again.

24:34 And I know it's overwhelming, and I tell my community to just blame me. I'm like, just blame me. I am happy to be the scapegoat. Be like. I'll listen to this podcast. And there was this draina called Victoria, and she said that we needed a binding financial agreement. So I want to talk about it, like, I'm happy to be that person for you guys, because it is so hard to bring up. But the second it's brought up, it's also a bit of a conversation around For it's not a conversation, it's more of a piece of information for you. How's that person dealing with the fact that you're bringing that up? Are they really defensive? Is that something that is you know a bit of a red flag, like what is going on in that situation, because if you're bringing it up to put them in the best possible position, because don't forget, binding financial agreement isn't just about you, It's actually about both sides getting an equitable outcome. If you are approaching that situation, I would see some red flags if somebody was really against signing that, And that's kind of that's my opinion.

25:31 But I do think that we need to protect ourselves. And when it comes to relationships and money, no relationship is the same. I've talked about this publicly before on my podcast, but my partner and I share our finances. And the reason we do is because it's just easiest. That started happening when we got a mortgage together and life just got a whole heap more hectic. We have three pets together, this mortgage, Like, we have a lot of shared finances, so. It makes sense. But I still have my own personal emergency fund. And the reason I have that emergency fund is not because I don't trust my partner, because I do to the end of the earth. But that emergency fund means that at any point in time, day or night, I can disappear up out of a financial situation, a relationship, a place, a location. I could fly myself back to my home if I was overseasoned, stuck. So I'm never in a financial pickle. And I think that absolutely everybody should have that, regardless of who you are, regardless of how much you trust your partner, even if you're like by Victoria, we have our own emergency fund together, I go great, But like, what if everything goes south and that person has the ability to freeze your assets?

26:44 What if that happens? Yeah, exactly. So I don't want to be negative. I don't want to be that person, but I do want you to be empowered. And I think just saying it's not necessarily just about your relationship. It's not about having those joint finances. We're just talking about you having access to money at all times to escape any relationship, situation, even a job you don't like. Like, what if you are in a situation you're like, you, I cannot deal with this boss anymore. They are terrible. Well, my friend, you have saved an emergency account for things like this, so you don't have to be in any kind of situation that you don't want to be anymore. So it kind of extends beyond just relationships and goes, how are you putting yourself in the best possible financial position, because it's not just your partner who can financially cripple you.

27:33 I think that is really important. I'm so glad that you brought that up as well, because I think when we start, I mean, especially when you're young and you may be working full time for the first time and it's the first time you've had access to disposable income, there's a lot of fun stuff to spend money on. Right, Oh my gosh, I was so good at spending when I was younger. I promise like I have done it all. It's true, there's a lot of stuff to spend your money on, and it can feel a drag to park money, to force yourself to put money away. But when you start thinking about like you said, it's all values and stuff, But when you start thinking about the more important issues that potentially like the protection that you're affording yourself and the empowerment that comes with having that emergency fund. It kind of gives you, I think, more of a motivation to really make the effort to save something, to put something away.

28:25 Yeah. Absolutely, And I think it's important as well to remember that it's not you sacrificing something. I find it a really contradictory position to be in when people are like, oh, yeah, but I worked so hard this week, and so I deserve to buy another pair of shoes, a handbag, a top, going out with your friends, whatever. It is, Like, hold on, you're telling me you worked extra hard so that you could throw all of the asset that you just created from doing extra hard work away, so that at the start of the next week you're going to start from scratch again. Instead of being in a better financial. Position in the long term, you want to be looking after future you. If you've worked over time or worked really hard to save some money, it's not treat yourself money, it's treat your future self money to the financial freedom that they deserve. And I think that too many times we mistake treating ourselves with material items that make us feel good for a short period of time, but long term put us in a I guess not so good financial position, which creates more stress because money doesn't just impact your financial life, It impacts your relationships, It impacts you mentally, spiritually, physically, it impacts literally everything, and money is more often than not, at the crux of every problem.

29:41 So I think it's important to remember that future you actually needs financial security, and by not buying that extra drink when you're out, or you know, maybe not splurging on a bag because you had a really big week at work, you're actually making the best decision for you. And in a way, I believe that financial literally and making good financial decisions is one of the best forms of self care that anyone can exercise. I hope that you're enjoying this conversation and realizing the benefits of positivity in your own life. If you are enjoying the show, please be sure to like and subscribe so that you get notified when you apps drop and head on over to Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen and leave us a rating and review.

30:32 Do you have any sort. Of basic principles, Victoria, like you know about how young people can find that balance to be able to feel like, Yeah, you can go out and enjoy life and you can have the holiday, go to the restaurant, but to also be you know, being kind to future you, like if you've got any sort of simple formulas that you generally recommend. I understand it's very individual. Well, it's totally individual, but at the same time, it's exactly the same as like for everybody. And that's actually back to what I will say before about your values and knowing you and knowing what you want to achieve. And I don't believe. In fact, I'm very, very very against percentage based budgeting models because I think that it puts really unrealistic standards and expectations on people. And I guess a good example of this is if you're a single mum, you earn fifty grand a year, you're putting food on the table, and then you read a book that tells you that you need to save twenty percent of your income each and every single month, Like that's actually really unachievable for you, and that expectation is going to make you feel terrible about yourself when in reality you're.

31:38 Doing an epic job. You are doing the best that you absolutely can. And let's be honest, for some financial situation, saving isn't an option at that period of time. It's something that can be aspirational. We can save later, Like sometimes it's just about putting food on the table and doing the absolute best. That we can. On the flip side, if you were earning five hundred thousand dollars a year and someone was saying to you, yeah, cool, so save twenty percent, I'd be like, my friend, you can save a lot more than that, Like twenty percent is not applicable, and I think that we need to remember that percentages, like what is that about? Like why are we putting this on there? But at the same time, as humans, we really like structure, So we really like being afforded a structure, so we're always looking for it, and that's where we need to create that ourselves. That's where we need to understand our goals, our values and go back to basics. When I talk about budgeting, I'm not talking about alright, cass, can we sit down and talk about your budget? How much do you spend on groceries each week?

32:39 Yep? Okay, Well, actually the averages one hundred and fifty dollars a week, so you're going to only have that amount to spend because that's the right way to spend your money. You go, Victoria, I have a fifteen year old, I have food to put on the table. I'm also a busy woman. Do you not realize I'm an author and a podcaster and it all round legend. And I'll be like, well, yeah, but I'm still only giving you one hundred and fifty dollars a week, And you go, well, that's actually unachievable, Like I am spending three hundred dollars a week or whatever you're spending. I've easily made you feel terrible about the decision that you're making, when in reality, you don't even have time to go out and buy clothes and shoes and hair and makeup, like you're not doing any of that. So I don't believe in putting you in.

33:22 A box of what is right or wrong, but more going houses that aligned to your values, Like is that serving you? And you're go, yeah, actually I do really like that, Like I cook the things that I love and I'm nourishing my body and I don't really care for takeout. Cool, no problems. But other people might say, oh my gosh, three hundred dollars a week on groceries, it's absolutely wild, Like I'm so embarrassed that that's what I'm spending. Like, I'm not in a position to ever judge you, but it's more around is that sitting okay with you? Because the thing that you are spending the most money on in your life is the thing that you value the most. So it might be your home, it might be food. Some people I have sat down with and done a budget and cash blow session with them and I go, wow, do you know you're spending fourteen hundred dollars a month on cigarettes and you're only spending one thousand dollars a month on rent?

34:10 And they go, oh, yeah, like I'll change it next month. And I'm like, okay, so did you know that you value smoking more than you do having a roof over your head? And they go, no, no, no, that's not it. I'm like, I'm not trying to be rude, but at the end of the day, your values are written on this bank statement and they are telling me that you value that, So prove me wrong. If you're telling me that you don't value spending money on that, you need to change it. It's not about the habit of smoking. And I use that as an example because obviously people be like, oh, yeah, that's about habit, break it, But it's actually about going to you as a person. Do you value that expense? And you'll say yes or no. And that's where it comes down to it.

34:50 If you're at UNI, or even if you're in your sixties and you're planning for retirement, you actually just need to know the basis. You need to know how much money is coming into. Your account each and every single month or week or fortnight or however you manage it, and how much money actually goes out and where is it flowing. Is it flowing in line with the things that you're happy to spend money on or are you a little bit like me and you're a bit embarrassed to look at your bank statement because you're like, oh my gosh, just come out of lockdown again. I promised that I would do grocery shops. Yet here I am with like a three hundred dollars in two week Uber bill because I've just been ordering Uber eats. Back to back to back.

35:30 I look at my own spending sometimes on my Victoria, you are not spending in line with the things that you actually value. Because the things that I personally value travel seeing my friends and family, cooking wholesome meals, spending time with my pets. Uber eats is none of those things. So I think it's making sure that your spending is in line with your values and not saying cash, don't go out for a bunch with your friends, put that into your budget, but make sure that you're not compromising another goal by making that choice. Yeah, I think you're right. It can be really confronting to actually sit down and look at where your money goes, but it can also be I think it's really important to do it. Absolutely. We've got to get honest with ourselves too.

36:11 Like you're talking about lockdown, and I think you know many of us here in Queensland we're back into a little mini lockdown at the moment. And I know what Melbourn's been through and what Sydney's going through. And it's very easy to tell ourselves, well, because I'm in lockdown and I'm not spending money on this or this or this or this, then I can hop online and buy all of these other things. Oh my gosh. Yes, And you. Know it can the balance can tip a little bit in an unhealthy direction. Yeah, And you're right, it's not healthy. But I think we need to remember that it's also okay if you're in a situation like lockdown to spend money on things that do give you instant gratification. I talk a lot about this on my podcast, about maybe not beating yourself up about that and actually setting a little bit of a lockdown budget has been really empowering for a number of people in my community, where they go, okay, actually, I'm really happy to allocate fifty dollars to something that I want to buy online because as much as you know, you say, oh, what an opportunity to save, like put that.

37:09 In the bin. We're all feeling terrible if you're in lockdown. It is really really hard. As somebody has gone through two hundred days of it in Melbourne, sometimes having that little package coming in the mail and something to look forward to is really exciting. Yeah, one hundred percent. But let's make sure it fits our budgets. Let's make sure that we're not, you know, buying unnecessary things just because it's three am and you can't sleep and you just click happy on the iconic. But I think it's important to also make sure that you're putting twenty four hours between you and your spending. So if you're to buy something, go for it, but can you just order it tomorrow? Just to make sure that you are making the right decision for yourself as opposed to just making trigger happy decisions, which I am so good at, especially in lockdown.

37:52 Same I was using really me as an example though, because last week when we had our kind of long lockdown for us, you know whatever it was initially the eight weeks, Oh my god, the package is arriving at my door. And you know, every single time, I was telling myself it's I'm in lockdown, I'm saving this money. And I was like, actually, I don't think I really. In the end, I think I spent way or that I ever would have. But it's a good example, and I think that giving you the permission to spend a little bit puts you back in the. Control seat as well. Just make sure it's in the budget and make sure that you stick to that. Yeah, I want to ask you another question. These days, with the way the internet works and there are so many young people and older people. I mean, myself included really rejecting the nine to five and going out on this entrepreneurial journey, and people want to set themselves up and run their own business. And there are so many things that people can do now that we couldn't do when I was growing up, you know, like youtubing is a thing, influencing as a.

38:47 Thing totally is a thing, of course. It is like there are so many opportunities for people now that never existed to create your own career and create set your own terms. Where does that leaf. War What advice do you give people in terms of superannuation, because everybody doesn't think of those things. No, and when you go into business, you don't think about your own mental health and how important that is. And your mental health is literally going to be one of the most important assets that you have in your business because if you don't have that, you can't go to work, and even if you are turning up at work, you're not really they're my friend. So I actually have another podcast to shamelessly plug that called The Business Bible, and I talk about that with my co host Ryan John all the time. And we are both the types of people that are entrepreneurial and want to live that, but we need to make sure that we also are paying ourselves super setting ourselves up for the future and understanding what value that business actually brings us, Because how many entrepreneurs have you spoken to who are like, I'm small business owner and you're like, oh my gosh, that's so exciting, and they do something really good and they're turning a really great profit. But every single waking hour is being used and if you distilled it down, they'd be making a i easily per hour rate because of the amount of time and energy and effort that goes into their business. And as much as from the outside it looks really shiny, they're not actually happy. They aren't actually in a position where they're comfortable with what they're doing.

40:14 I think we need to just be honest with ourselves around what the intentions of that are. And I think having a conversation with ourselves and going Okay, cool, I'm going to go into business. What are the key. Markets of success? Like what am I actually trying to achieve? What income do I want? Like? Am I wanting to earn fifty thousand dollars a year? Okay, well what would it take? Do I need to sell one fifty thousand dollar product? Or am I selling fifty thousand and one one dollar products? So how does that work and what is the plan and creating a business plan around that is actually really important before you begin. And I also think that in this day and age, too many people are like, Okay, I quit my full time job and I took up my side hustle, when in reality, there's something really empowering about people who are full time employed and just have a little something on the side to top it up, to make sure that the family can go on holidays each and every single year, or that they get to live a lifestyle that's a bit beyond their current career, because maybe you're in a career that actually has award rates and you're not going to get a pay rise unless it's a planned pay rise because it's the subsidy or the government additions that happen each and every single year.

41:21 So I think that you need to understand. What your plan is with your side hustle or becoming an entrepreneur. But I'm all about it as long as it actually is impacting your life in a really positive way, because I think in twenty twenty one, when everyone's about you know, breaking them old of nine till five, they're also in a way saying that nine to five isn't a good option, and for so many of us it is because. It's a good option. It can be a really good option. Yep. Some of us just want to go to work and come home and not take work home and have time with our friends and family. At a nine to five Monday to Friday job can afford us that not everybody has to be a big business owner with impressive awards and being the best of the best. Like, some of us have different values, and I think that that is totally okay, But I think we need to also importantly take that pressure off and go, well, actually, what do you want out of life? Like? Is being a business owner something that you genuinely want because it's a responsibility that I didn't even know had so many responsibilities associated with it.

42:22 Totally, that could be a whole other conversation. I'm sure you have had it on your podcast, because of many business owners are burnt out and broke, and you know, I think there's loads of stuff that people don't consider when they kind of reject that nine to five. There's community, and there's social aspects, and there's structure and routine, Like, there is so much with nine to five that you don't get if you're just plugging away at home. Here, I am at home like stubranuation. Who would have thought super right? Six days? Oh my gosh, right, paid holidaily, paid holidays? Wow? How cool would it be? I've been a business owner world for us and use a paid sick day? WHOA that sounds norful?

43:04 I know. Sometimes I think what am I doing? Why did I decide to do this? I feel like they are actually in the dream position. Sometimes in this business ownership stuff is actually a trap. There'll be a whole we'll see a whole reversal go on, victoria. Another thing that young people probably find a bit boring and unnecessary is insurance. And I get it's one of those not very sexy topics. What are the insurances that are really important? To have? All of them? All of them, my friends. So, because you are young, you are very likely to have not experienced significant health events, which means that you're going to be like Creme de la creme for getting good insurance. Without any type of exclusion.

43:45 So when it comes to protecting yourself, for me, my favorite type of insurance. Who would have thought that people have favorite types of insurances? You can just tell I'm a really cool person by that comment alone. But my favorite type of insurance is income protection because it protects your income and to me, that's the biggest asset that you have and the biggest thing that is going to create your financial freedom into the future. But people are like, oh, well, I'll just get car insurance and you're like, okay, cool. So you're planning on protecting your car, and if your car broke down, your insurance would pay for that call. But if you're income. Broke down and you weren't able to generate that, how are you paying for that car? So for me, income protection is arguably one of the most important insurances that you have. And then inside your super you are very likely to have TPD and very likely to have life insurance.

44:39 Both of those are really important. But for me, as a. Young person, I prioritize having my income protection set up from a young age to make sure that I am always in the best possible financial position. Yeah. Cool, good answer. Can I ask you a question about crypto. Yes, of course you can. Like, there's a lot of interest in I mean not something that I personally, it's not on my own ratar, but I hear a lot of people talking about crypto and investing in cryptocurrency, and we did talk about investment. I know you can't give financial advice on this podcast, but just generally speaking thoughts. From a personal perspective, I don't like crypto at all. And the reason I don't like crypto is there's a few Okay, so first things first is it actually doesn't have any base. Let's compare it to a bank because money, right, if I go and purchase a share in a bank, that bank has branches, it has people actually investing their hard earned money into it, it has employees, it has responsibilities.

45:33 It's not just going to disappear overnight. In the same way that crypto absolutely could because it exists on the Internet and doesn't have the foundational basis that real businesses do. On the flip side of that as well, I like the idea that people are more interested in investing because of crypto. But the reason they're interested in crypto is because people are so excited about the instant gratification that it has been affording them. We're in reality. Good investment is over the long term, and it's not actually about instant gratification. It's actually about long term sustainable investing plans, and I think that that's the. Most important thing there. I am not an investor in crypto at all, and I never will be, just because my plan is to invest over the long term, not invest over the short term and risk too many things. I see too many people investing in crypto when in reality they're not investors, Like they're not even willing to take that risk.

46:31 And if I went through a whole financial advice. Process with them, I'd be like, why are you picking literally the most risky asset when you're not even ready for shares yet? Like what is going on? So? I think social media has a lot to do with the blame of that, because it just makes it look so easy and so sexy. But in reality, I think we need to make the right decisions for our personal situations. So running theme and there's conversation about avoiding that instant gratification, isn't there Like really yeh, delayed gratifications, hanging in for the long term. My last question, Victoria, you've been so generous with your time, is what is one piece of financial advice that you would give your eighteen year old self? Oh my gosh, she probably wouldn't have listened, but understand your budget and understand what understand what lifestyle creep is.

47:18 So lifestyle creep is like when you're in high school your mum buys your makeup for you at Coals, and then when you're in UNI and you don't have heaps of money, like you're treating yourself at Priceline. But when you get your full time job or you've started your career, you're very likely to start buying makeup from Mecca. So it's important to just keep track of how your spending is going in relation to how much income you have. Because I was a very good victim of lifestyle creep, and I think we can all find something in. Our lives that potentially has crept. Up in price over time just because we thought we deserved it more, when in reality, you and I both know I'd be fine with makeup from the supermarket. So true, it is so true. Thank you so much, Victoria.

48:02 It's been a pleasure. Thank you for having me. It has also been a pleasure. To find out more about Victoria's financial services, her online programs, or indeed anything she has to offer head to. She's on the money dot com, dot you Her podcast, She's on the Money, is available on all podcast platforms, and her book of the same name is also now available in all good bookstores. It is full of really great practical advice. Buy it for yourself, buy it for someone you know. Anybody would appreciate it. I'm sure if you enjoyed this episode, please tell a friend, hit the follow button on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, leave us a five star rating and a nice review. It all really helps us to be heard by more listeners. Come and say hello to me at Instagram, castan underscore XO, email me hello at kastan dot com and I cannot wait to catch you on the next episode of Crappy to Happy Listener