Aug. 14, 2023

Pub Choir Goes Global with Astrid Jorgensen

Pub Choir Goes Global with Astrid Jorgensen
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Pub Choir Goes Global with Astrid Jorgensen
Pub Choir Goes Global with Astrid Jorgensen
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Season 10 Creativity & Self-Expression Positive Psychology

This week, Cass sits down with Astrid Jorgensen, founder and Director of the iconic Pub Choir. Astrid shares the story of how pub choir got started, the tipping point when pub choir became a global sensation, and the surprising and inspiring lessons she learned from pivoting to ‘Couch Choir’ during covid lockdowns.Tickets to Pub Choir’s shows in Australia, the UK and the USA are available at pubchoir.com.au
Connect with Cass:www.crappytohappypod.comhello@crappytohappypod.com 
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Transcript
WEBVTT

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This is Crappita Happy and I am your host, Cas Stunn.

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I'm a clinical and coaching psychologist and mindfulness meditation teacher

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and of course author of the Crappita Happy books. In

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this show, I bring you conversations with interesting, inspiring, intelligent

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people who are experts in their field and who have

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something of value to share that will help you feel less.

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Crappy and more happy.

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Astred Jorgensen is an Australian vocalist, conductor and composer and

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she is the founder and director of the Iconic Pub Choir.

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Since launching a Pubchoir in Brisbane in twenty seventeen, it

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has gone on to garner international attention. It's received accolades

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from the likes of Mariah Carey, the Cranberrys, Barry Gibb

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and Kate Bush. This year, Astred was awarded a Medal

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of the Order of Australia for her service to the community.

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Very well deserved and I am thrilled that Astred was

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able to join me for a chat right before she

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jumped on a plane to take Pubchoir on an international tour.

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Here is my conversation with Astrid.

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Astred, thank you so much for joining me today on

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the Crapy a Happy Podcast.

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Thank you so much. I'm so looking forward to feeling happy.

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I'm not graffy.

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I have been wanting to talk to you for such

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a long time, and you know, when you recently were

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awarded the Order of Australian Metal, I thought.

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Oh my god, now I'll never get her on the show.

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She'll be in such high demands.

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So I hugely appreciate you taking the time to be

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here today, love the chat. As your life changed, Astrid

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since you got the OIM.

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Not at all. Now that you've said that, I'm like,

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should it have nothing's changed and I haven't. I haven't

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got business cards or anything, so I just feel like

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it's just a special little treat for my own mind

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in the background, but everything's the same.

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It's a lovely acknowledgment of your contribution, Astrid. I have

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to admit I've never had the opportunity to attend a

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pub choir. I did participate in couch Choir and we'll

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talk about that in a minute.

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And I do have tickets for.

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Your London show, so I'm very very excited about that.

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I'm keen to know before, like, what was your background

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before pub choir. And I guess, then, how did it begin?

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What was the spark of inspiration for this singing in

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pubs thing?

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Well, I used to be a high school music teacher

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and I so in twenty sixteen, I was still teaching

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and I got this job in Townville. So I usually

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live in like a fairly big, bigish city called Brisbane

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in Australia, and in twenty sixteen, for one year, I

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was shifted up north to kind of, I guess, a

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bit more regional.

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City school and I a queen's land.

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Okay, all right, sorry for the background. So I moved

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to Townsville and it's really hot there, and I got

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this job at this school that had a compulsory all

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all school choir. So I don't know if you've met

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children that give me really oppositional at the best of times.

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And so I was charged with taking a compulsory high

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school choir where every single pupil at the school was

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forced to sing. And that sounded like a really big job.

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And so like once a fortnight outside in Townsville it

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was so hot, I would take compulsory. It was a

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pretty small school, so I think there's about four hundred

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kids and they would have to sit there outside in

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the boiling, sweaty heat for an hour with me. And

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it changed my life because I look, it wouldn't have

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been a job that I would have thought to sign

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up for, but when I started doing it, it was

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actually so transformative because up until then, music for me

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had been quite a competitive thing. You know, like we're

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always preparing for a competition with the choir or you know,

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like I'm literally marking students on who was better or

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worse at music in the class, and you know, some

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kid would sing their heart out and they'd be like

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B minus. And then suddenly I had this job where

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there was no competitive element at all, and it was

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so much better. It just felt so right for me.

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I think that there is a place for competition and

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all sorts of you know, rooms in the house of music.

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But for me, suddenly it was like this moment of

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realization that I am chasing collaboration, not competition.

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Wow.

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And so my job ended after a year and I

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came back to Brisbane and I was just like more

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and more and more, forgive me more. So that's when

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pub QUI started A couple months after I got back

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in twenty seventeen. The first event happened in April and Brisbane.

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There was seventy people there. I pretty much just wanted

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to find a space for people to make music in

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a non competitive way for no outcome, Like I just

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don't care about Like it's nice to win an award, right,

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but I just don't care. I think it's way nicer

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to experience something with other people. And so that's been

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the goal all along. It's been going for six and

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a half years now, and always it is just the

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invitation to regular people to make music, even if they're

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really a bad at it, while other people are also

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there aiming to make the same thing at the same

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time as you. And at the end of the show,

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we'll all sing for each other what we learned. Yeah,

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that was such a long answer. I'm so sorry.

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No, I like long answers.

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I really do more detailed of that. I'm a details person.

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I was going to ask, so, how many people were

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at the first event.

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You said, seventy people? What was that like? I guess

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we all love to sing. We love to sing in

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our car, we love to sing in the show.

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We love to belt out a banger at us in

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a public place, and there's such a reticence. So what's

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your experience, I guess does it start out a little

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bit cautious before people kind of really get going with it?

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Absolutely? For me, my job is to change the mind

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of the audience about how embarrassing this is going to

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be for them. I think a lot of people walk

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in expecting to be personally shamed, and so in fact

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my job is not, yes, I'm like teaching, I'm telling

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people what I want them to sing, but actually the

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first job at the show for me personally is to

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find a way to convince people that it's going to

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be okay. And so I actually start every show with

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like i call it a demotivational speech, where I'm like,

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as if you're the best at anything, you know, like,

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think about all the elements of your life, as if

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being the best should be what we're measuring our lives by.

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You are here because you are dead average like everyone else,

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and so I absolve you of that. Sorry, of course

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you're not the best in the room. No one is

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the best in this room, and so let's just try

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and do something nice together. And so it's like it's

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like underpromising and over delivering at the show. I'm just like,

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none of us are here to win an award, none

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of us are going to like get a recording contract.

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At the end of the show, you've walked in. If

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you're a bad singer, when you walked in, you walk

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out exactly the same, except I hope you feel less

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embarrassed of it. Like, yeah, life is about an experience,

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not about winning something. We all kind of end up

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with the same prize at the end of life, you know.

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So it's like I think, Yeah, looking for a way

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to more fully experience what life feels like with other

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people is the goal. And so I just really try

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not to talk about competitiveness and comparison at all at

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the show.

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It's such a good message. It's such an important message

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because everywhere in life is competition and everybody is trying

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to be something extraordinary.

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You know.

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I work a lot with women.

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I'm a percoching a psychologist, and I try to help

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women to you know, feel less crappy and more happy,

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like get in touch with what's really important to them

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and be less stressed and less perfectionist and all of that.

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And they tell me, like I was talking about, what

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do you do for fun? What do you do for hobbies?

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And they will say, well, I had a hobby, but

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even that became something I had to kind of learn

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and be the best at and strive. Like it almost

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turns into this competitive thing, like nothing is just fun anymore.

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I know, And that is what I'm trying to live

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my whole life geared towards. I'm trying to have a

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nice time. Like it is impossible to be the best

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at something, and even if there is like one, I mean,

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the only thing that you can actually win at is

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a competition, like a setup competition. Everything else is just

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like a spectrum of experience, Like when it comes to

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making stuff for creativity, there is quite literally no metric

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that you can beat someone else at. I mean, it's

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like who has the most beautiful voice? I don't know,

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it's an opinion. The person the artist that you think

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is the most incredible songwriter in the world, your best

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friend could think is rubbish, Like it's all opinion, and

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so it's impossible to win this game. We need to

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free ourselves from the game itself of I'm trying to

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be the best at something when best doesn't even exist, Like, yes,

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there might be a fastest person in the world, a

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person who runs one hundred meters faster than anyone else.

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But what about all of the other aspects of life,

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Like there are so few things where it's an actual competition.

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Most of life is experienced in just average, you know,

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like the vast average of our lives is where all

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of our life happens, basically, And so finding anything we

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can do just have to be singing, but just finding

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anything we can do to more fully be present in

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the experience that we're having. How does it feel when

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you sing? Like that should be a good enough reason

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to do anything? Really, do you like? It doesn't feel nice?

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And if you're not hurting anyone else, then that's a

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good enough reason to do anything. If it makes you

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enjoy your brief time on this earth a little bit more,

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go for it. Like that at the show, I'm just like,

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singing because it makes you feel happy is a good

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enough reason to begin, So let's go.

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It started off seventy people in a pub. At some

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point it obviously gained in popularity and it became a

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thing that from my perspective, it seemed like it was

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something that everybody wanted to be a part of what

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was the tipping point, like where or was there a

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tipping point when it really kind of blew up?

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There was a moment of pure luck. I think there

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are lots of really talented artistic people in this world

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and everyone that I know that has kind of reached

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the next level of maybe notoriety is the word I'm

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looking for. All of it involves a moment of magic,

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and for me, it was when popquir Yes was gaining

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a lot of momentum. But we had picked the song

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Zombie by the Cranberries to learn. I think it was like,

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I don't know, the sixth or something show that we had,

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and that week Dolores Riordan, who was the lead singer

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of the Cranberries, died and I already had the song

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locked in and the show was like two days after that,

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world news broke and everyone was really shocked in mourning

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and then we sung the song and it is the

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most magical show we ever had, really like they're all

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magic in their own special ways, but this was it

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was sort of different. Everyone knew that it was really

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important that we take it seriously. There's this picture from

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the show that sometimes I look at or I remember

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that it exists and I go back and find it

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where right at the end of the performance, my photographer

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was standing behind me and you can see all these

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goosebumps along my arms as the final note is sung

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by the audience, Like it was just this moment of

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good timing and synergy and something feeling important to everyone there.

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And then the band shared that. The band went and

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put that on their social media as the first thing

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00:12:13.679 --> 00:12:18.039
that they said publicly after she passed away, and so

229
00:12:19.279 --> 00:12:22.639
it changed everything. We got like one hundred thousand followers

230
00:12:22.639 --> 00:12:26.639
the next week, and yeah, everything was really different after that,

231
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And I guess I like to think that maybe we

232
00:12:29.159 --> 00:12:31.600
would have got there anyway, but it certainly sped up

233
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the momentum and got Pubcorn to people's radars a little bit. So, yeah,

234
00:12:37.080 --> 00:12:39.039
the timing of that was incredible and I know that

235
00:12:39.080 --> 00:12:39.919
it changed everything.

236
00:12:40.399 --> 00:12:40.759
Wow.

237
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That actually leads me to ask you, how do you

238
00:12:45.759 --> 00:12:47.360
go about choosing the songs.

239
00:12:47.919 --> 00:12:51.159
Yeah, it's the most frequent question and the one that

240
00:12:51.200 --> 00:12:55.000
I'm the most hesitant to answer because I know that

241
00:12:55.120 --> 00:12:57.240
it's so important to people that come to the show

242
00:12:57.240 --> 00:12:58.919
that they like the song and I want them to

243
00:12:59.039 --> 00:13:05.279
enjoy the show. But also one of my main messages

244
00:13:05.440 --> 00:13:09.519
that I'm trying to share at shows and in all

245
00:13:09.600 --> 00:13:11.519
of the lead up to shows is that the song

246
00:13:11.720 --> 00:13:15.360
is not as important as you think. I think for

247
00:13:15.440 --> 00:13:18.759
a lot of people, especially if they're not music makers,

248
00:13:19.320 --> 00:13:22.159
Like all of us are music appreciators and music is

249
00:13:22.200 --> 00:13:24.360
in all of our lives, and I love that for us.

250
00:13:25.279 --> 00:13:28.559
But the difference between when you consume music or you

251
00:13:28.679 --> 00:13:32.679
make music is that one way is like fixed in concrete,

252
00:13:33.279 --> 00:13:35.120
Like if you just listen to music and you listen

253
00:13:35.159 --> 00:13:38.080
to your favorite song two thousand times, it's always the same.

254
00:13:38.600 --> 00:13:42.440
But when you make music, it changes and is fluid

255
00:13:42.559 --> 00:13:46.799
and is like alive in the moment. And so at

256
00:13:46.960 --> 00:13:51.279
pub choir, I'm creating fluid versions of songs that you know.

257
00:13:51.919 --> 00:13:55.320
So in my mind, it doesn't really matter what the

258
00:13:55.360 --> 00:13:57.559
song is because we're going to do a brand new

259
00:13:57.679 --> 00:14:00.919
version of it. And I think it's sometimes really hard

260
00:14:01.279 --> 00:14:04.639
to get hesitant people through the door if they hear

261
00:14:04.679 --> 00:14:07.279
what the song is and then they judge what the

262
00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:09.720
night will be like on how they have heard that

263
00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:12.399
song in a concrete way. I hope that's not too cerebral.

264
00:14:12.759 --> 00:14:15.519
It's like, no, that makes perfect sense.

265
00:14:15.679 --> 00:14:18.919
Amazing because it's the number one thing that I'm kind

266
00:14:19.000 --> 00:14:22.120
of pushing against in people's minds. I want you to

267
00:14:22.159 --> 00:14:26.679
feel like you have a place in making music feel new,

268
00:14:27.399 --> 00:14:31.840
and we carve the experience around how we feel, and

269
00:14:31.879 --> 00:14:35.480
that's the magic of music. It's totally reflective of us.

270
00:14:35.919 --> 00:14:38.639
We are the instruments. So however you walk in feeling

271
00:14:38.639 --> 00:14:40.960
that night, the song will sound different at the end

272
00:14:40.960 --> 00:14:45.480
of the night because of you. And so I choose

273
00:14:45.480 --> 00:14:47.759
songs that I feel like are really doable. I feel

274
00:14:47.799 --> 00:14:50.759
like I choose songs that I hope most people have

275
00:14:50.799 --> 00:14:53.440
even just heard of, so that they don't feel like

276
00:14:53.519 --> 00:14:56.840
they're a fish out of water completely. But I only

277
00:14:56.879 --> 00:15:00.039
announce the songs the day before shows because I I

278
00:15:00.759 --> 00:15:02.799
want someone to have bought a ticket because they're really

279
00:15:02.840 --> 00:15:06.000
invested in the experience of working with strangers and making

280
00:15:06.039 --> 00:15:09.759
something beautiful and transient. And I don't want them to

281
00:15:09.759 --> 00:15:12.000
buy a song buy a ticket to the show because

282
00:15:12.039 --> 00:15:16.080
it's their personal favorite song. That metric is actually too

283
00:15:16.120 --> 00:15:19.840
hard to meet. I can't pick a song that everyone loves,

284
00:15:19.960 --> 00:15:24.240
it doesn't even exist. And so I really really like,

285
00:15:24.279 --> 00:15:27.000
if there's one thing that anyone is listening to when

286
00:15:27.399 --> 00:15:30.039
I'm talking to you now, it's that the song is

287
00:15:30.120 --> 00:15:32.919
just not as important as you are, Like, the song

288
00:15:33.000 --> 00:15:36.320
is not as important as making stuff with other people,

289
00:15:36.399 --> 00:15:39.000
making a piece of art that exists just for one evening.

290
00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:41.799
That's the thing that you should worry about. And the

291
00:15:41.840 --> 00:15:45.360
rest is just like karaoke songs. Who cares what it is? Like,

292
00:15:46.200 --> 00:15:49.320
I'll pick something that you've heard on like gold FM,

293
00:15:49.559 --> 00:15:54.759
you know, on just like a popular song that's that's

294
00:15:55.240 --> 00:15:59.759
been well loved now or in the past, and who cares.

295
00:16:00.840 --> 00:16:04.759
The other one that went really gangbusters was running up

296
00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:05.200
that hill?

297
00:16:05.919 --> 00:16:07.559
Did you choose?

298
00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:10.639
Howd you pre picked that one or did you do

299
00:16:10.759 --> 00:16:13.559
that one in response to its popularity on Stranger Things?

300
00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:18.240
Yeah? Look, so, having said all that about how the

301
00:16:18.279 --> 00:16:21.320
song's not that important, sometimes the right song at the

302
00:16:21.399 --> 00:16:25.120
right time can make a huge difference. Actually, yeah, what

303
00:16:25.240 --> 00:16:28.200
happened is I think that that song might have actually

304
00:16:28.360 --> 00:16:32.600
re invigorated my entire livelihood and my business with pub

305
00:16:32.679 --> 00:16:36.759
choir and everything to do with it. Because post COVID

306
00:16:37.519 --> 00:16:42.080
people were really hesitant to buy tickets for live experiences,

307
00:16:42.159 --> 00:16:45.440
and I appreciate why so much stuff had been canceled.

308
00:16:45.440 --> 00:16:47.559
We weren't getting our money back as quickly as we want,

309
00:16:47.720 --> 00:16:49.679
you know, like there were so many factors that were

310
00:16:49.679 --> 00:16:53.080
making people feel uncomfortable about a live music experience after

311
00:16:53.200 --> 00:16:57.840
so long without it, and in the past pubquir had

312
00:16:57.840 --> 00:17:01.440
been selling out shows in minutes, and then just post COVID,

313
00:17:01.480 --> 00:17:04.200
it was like a show could be on sale for

314
00:17:04.240 --> 00:17:06.400
two months and like we'd sell like half of it.

315
00:17:06.400 --> 00:17:09.359
It never happened before. Wow, And so I did actually

316
00:17:09.359 --> 00:17:10.920
go back to the drawing board and I was like,

317
00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:14.599
I need to remind people about I need to get

318
00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:15.920
them back in the room. I feel like I can

319
00:17:15.960 --> 00:17:18.000
convince anyone if they're in the room to sing with me,

320
00:17:18.400 --> 00:17:20.319
but I've got to get them in the room first.

321
00:17:20.400 --> 00:17:24.759
So very luckily, there just happened to be a song

322
00:17:24.839 --> 00:17:28.000
that was news, Like it wasn't just like music news.

323
00:17:28.039 --> 00:17:30.599
It was the news that a song that was thirty

324
00:17:30.599 --> 00:17:33.079
seven years old was number one again and everyone was

325
00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:35.599
talking about it at the same time. And I thought, well, shit,

326
00:17:36.680 --> 00:17:40.440
let's at least capitalize on how people are feeling as

327
00:17:40.440 --> 00:17:43.200
something that people are already talking about. Let's just make

328
00:17:43.240 --> 00:17:46.599
that the focus. So I don't often do that. I

329
00:17:46.640 --> 00:17:48.880
don't often try and like do everything on the flight.

330
00:17:48.880 --> 00:17:50.799
It's nice to kind of plan ahead a little bit,

331
00:17:50.880 --> 00:17:55.119
but opportunity presented itself, Like I can't think of really

332
00:17:55.519 --> 00:18:00.319
any other time where the artist was alive, where a

333
00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:04.680
song was the news, and so that did feel like

334
00:18:04.720 --> 00:18:06.759
a rare moment and it changed everything because then we

335
00:18:06.799 --> 00:18:10.200
did that arrangement and I put heaps of effort in

336
00:18:10.240 --> 00:18:13.640
like crafting a special string quartet arrangement to a company

337
00:18:13.680 --> 00:18:16.960
the singing, and then Kate Bush sent us an email afterwards,

338
00:18:16.960 --> 00:18:19.359
and that kind of changed everything, Like everyone kind of

339
00:18:19.400 --> 00:18:22.240
came back to the show because I think it looked

340
00:18:22.279 --> 00:18:25.799
magic again. Everyone was like, Oh, that's right, singing is nice.

341
00:18:27.440 --> 00:18:30.640
There's an element of genius to what you do. Asterroid.

342
00:18:30.680 --> 00:18:33.200
I mean, I know you'll argue with me on this.

343
00:18:33.359 --> 00:18:35.079
I'm not a musical person, like I never learned an

344
00:18:35.079 --> 00:18:37.240
instrument as a kid, Like I never learned music, So

345
00:18:37.279 --> 00:18:39.960
I don't have that kind of background. And it fascinates

346
00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:42.799
me that you are able to put together these arrangements

347
00:18:42.799 --> 00:18:47.240
and get two thousand people and have them singing different harmonies,

348
00:18:47.279 --> 00:18:52.200
Like how do you do that?

349
00:18:52.200 --> 00:18:56.240
That is a big question, I mean, because singing is easy,

350
00:18:56.400 --> 00:19:01.079
but arranging songs is not. No, not always, So I

351
00:19:01.599 --> 00:19:04.119
want people yeah, Like I want people who come to

352
00:19:04.160 --> 00:19:05.680
the show to be like, oh my god, it's so

353
00:19:05.839 --> 00:19:08.680
easy to start, it's so easy to get involved and

354
00:19:08.720 --> 00:19:13.160
to take a first step into becoming creative. But also

355
00:19:13.240 --> 00:19:17.440
behind the scenes, I'm like very stressed, but in a

356
00:19:17.480 --> 00:19:20.960
good way, like a good level. It's sustainable. But yeah, look,

357
00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:23.720
I don't know why my brain things like this, but

358
00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:29.079
a lot of us, everyone has natural inclinations to things

359
00:19:29.079 --> 00:19:32.039
that just make a bit more sense to them. I

360
00:19:32.079 --> 00:19:35.920
am not very practical. Let me say that. I don't know.

361
00:19:35.960 --> 00:19:38.359
It's just like the way that my mind is wired.

362
00:19:38.599 --> 00:19:44.519
I can hear. I can hear layers of music that

363
00:19:44.680 --> 00:19:49.319
don't exist yet. Let me say that in another way,

364
00:19:49.400 --> 00:19:55.359
like when I listen to songs, everyone listens differently, and

365
00:19:55.440 --> 00:19:57.359
I think a lot of people might listen to say

366
00:19:57.559 --> 00:20:00.000
the lyrics, or some people don't hear the lyrics at all,

367
00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:03.359
and they hear the beat and it's like they feel

368
00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:05.440
the vibe of the song. They jump up and down.

369
00:20:05.519 --> 00:20:07.799
Some people listen to the guitar like they just love

370
00:20:07.839 --> 00:20:11.640
the way that that sounds or whatever. For me, for

371
00:20:11.680 --> 00:20:14.279
some reason, my brain is wirde in this way where

372
00:20:14.279 --> 00:20:16.799
I can hear all of those things at the same time,

373
00:20:17.119 --> 00:20:21.599
and if I listen a little bit harder or a

374
00:20:21.599 --> 00:20:27.519
couple times more, I can hear notes that would also

375
00:20:27.720 --> 00:20:30.480
work with that song, even though they're not in the

376
00:20:30.559 --> 00:20:34.759
song yet. And so what I do with pub choir

377
00:20:35.000 --> 00:20:37.759
is we're not just singing karaoke versions of the song,

378
00:20:38.359 --> 00:20:40.039
because you can do that anytime. You can sing your

379
00:20:40.039 --> 00:20:42.519
favorite song, like literally anytime you want, and that's awesome.

380
00:20:42.799 --> 00:20:46.519
What we do at pub choir is I take the

381
00:20:46.640 --> 00:20:49.240
tune that you would sing a karaoke and I split

382
00:20:49.279 --> 00:20:51.960
it up into different lanes so that everyone with different

383
00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:55.079
types of voices can sing a little bit of the

384
00:20:55.119 --> 00:20:58.240
part they know, and then I fill in all of

385
00:20:58.279 --> 00:21:03.279
the gaps with news that will work in tandem with

386
00:21:03.640 --> 00:21:08.960
the tune, and I call those harmonies. So I don't

387
00:21:08.960 --> 00:21:10.599
know why my brain knows how to do that. I

388
00:21:10.640 --> 00:21:12.680
did study it at UNI, but I know that it

389
00:21:12.720 --> 00:21:17.279
was something I kind of understood already, So yeah, I

390
00:21:17.279 --> 00:21:19.440
guess it's like taking me probably six and a half

391
00:21:19.519 --> 00:21:23.079
years of doing this work to actually kind of claim, oh,

392
00:21:23.119 --> 00:21:25.559
I think I might be really good at it. Like

393
00:21:25.599 --> 00:21:28.240
at the beginning, I was like, you know, this is easy,

394
00:21:28.279 --> 00:21:29.799
come on, and I'll just tell you what to do,

395
00:21:29.880 --> 00:21:33.160
and really it has become clear to me that if

396
00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:35.400
it were easy, there would be a lot more of it.

397
00:21:36.200 --> 00:21:39.759
And it's made me feel, like, you know, pretty tough actually,

398
00:21:39.799 --> 00:21:42.279
that it's something that I can offer. I can hear

399
00:21:42.319 --> 00:21:44.359
a thing that you might not have heard yet, and

400
00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:46.920
I'm so excited to explain to you what I can hear,

401
00:21:47.000 --> 00:21:49.759
another layer that you wouldn't have considered. And it's going

402
00:21:49.799 --> 00:21:51.799
to feel really good when we put it together. Like

403
00:21:52.119 --> 00:21:54.559
if it was exciting to be able to contribute something.

404
00:21:54.839 --> 00:21:57.160
As I said, I'm a very non practical person, so

405
00:21:57.519 --> 00:21:59.880
to be able to say, hey, if you try this

406
00:22:00.039 --> 00:22:03.319
thing that I thought of, it will feel nice. That's cool,

407
00:22:03.359 --> 00:22:04.200
It's very cool.

408
00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:06.680
I have actually heard you say once before that you

409
00:22:06.720 --> 00:22:08.799
don't hear like you you're one of those people that

410
00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:12.359
doesn't have an inner dialogue, like you don't hear, You

411
00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:14.680
don't have conversations with yourself in your head.

412
00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:15.640
You have music though.

413
00:22:16.359 --> 00:22:20.119
Yeah, it's like my brain put all of its resources

414
00:22:20.119 --> 00:22:23.559
into one basket. I've got so many deficiencies in other areas.

415
00:22:23.799 --> 00:22:26.279
I can't remember what happened yesterday, but I can remember

416
00:22:26.319 --> 00:22:28.279
how a song went in a lot of detail. I've

417
00:22:28.279 --> 00:22:32.279
got good musical recall and even good musical imagination, but

418
00:22:32.319 --> 00:22:37.599
when it comes to like thinking about stuff, I can't

419
00:22:37.799 --> 00:22:40.079
imagine my own voice in my head. It's something I

420
00:22:40.079 --> 00:22:42.640
didn't know that a lot of people had this inner

421
00:22:42.759 --> 00:22:45.960
dialogue where they're kind of chit chatting, narrating their own existence.

422
00:22:46.000 --> 00:22:49.079
I'm like, what is going on for you guys? And

423
00:22:49.119 --> 00:22:51.839
I can't imagine what things look like When I close

424
00:22:51.920 --> 00:22:54.160
my eyes, I've forgotten what you look like like. Its

425
00:22:54.200 --> 00:22:57.079
sort of like my brains just, yeah, put all of

426
00:22:57.119 --> 00:22:59.640
its resources into this one thing, so I'm you know,

427
00:22:59.680 --> 00:23:00.960
I better make the most of it.

428
00:23:00.960 --> 00:23:03.839
It's actually fascinating how different people's brains work.

429
00:23:03.920 --> 00:23:07.640
But yeah, I find that really interesting and no gift.

430
00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:08.920
So going back, I.

431
00:23:10.599 --> 00:23:15.759
Thought that this was your first venture overseas, the upcoming

432
00:23:15.759 --> 00:23:18.240
overseas tour, and then I found out that actually, no,

433
00:23:18.319 --> 00:23:22.599
you had already started taking it overseas right before COVID

434
00:23:23.039 --> 00:23:23.920
tell me about that.

435
00:23:24.880 --> 00:23:29.160
Yeah, so in twenty was it twenty nineteen, just before

436
00:23:29.880 --> 00:23:36.039
COVID grased Our Shores and Everyone's Lives. Pub Choir was

437
00:23:36.599 --> 00:23:39.000
heading to the UK. So we did do a show

438
00:23:39.000 --> 00:23:43.839
in London, and we did a show in Nottingham and Cambridge,

439
00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:47.240
and then we headed over to the US and then

440
00:23:47.839 --> 00:23:50.920
in the US it was about March twenty twenty that

441
00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:54.079
we went for our trip and we got one show

442
00:23:54.119 --> 00:23:57.440
in out of a sold out tour. Yeah, March twenty twenty,

443
00:23:57.480 --> 00:24:01.680
Do you remember it was though? That was and we

444
00:24:01.680 --> 00:24:06.880
were in America. We had one show in la and

445
00:24:07.440 --> 00:24:12.079
it was like the night before America realized it was

446
00:24:12.079 --> 00:24:17.200
a problem and everyone was sick over there, and so

447
00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:20.400
a lot of people didn't come to the show. And

448
00:24:20.440 --> 00:24:23.920
I feel like it was like, quite literally the last

449
00:24:24.160 --> 00:24:26.519
night that people left their homes for a lot of

450
00:24:26.559 --> 00:24:28.279
people that came to our show, Like I've had people

451
00:24:28.319 --> 00:24:30.480
message and be like that was the last time I

452
00:24:30.519 --> 00:24:34.559
went out. Wow, I remember this final night. It was

453
00:24:34.599 --> 00:24:37.880
like the final meal before the thing. There was like

454
00:24:38.559 --> 00:24:41.240
this energy. It was actually a really great show, to

455
00:24:41.279 --> 00:24:43.079
be honest, because I think everyone was like, let's make

456
00:24:43.119 --> 00:24:45.720
it count. And then the next morning we were on

457
00:24:45.759 --> 00:24:47.799
our way to our San Francisco show the next day

458
00:24:47.920 --> 00:24:54.400
and America shut everything down overnight. And Australia was a

459
00:24:54.400 --> 00:24:57.799
big cavalier at that time and didn't realize that it

460
00:24:57.839 --> 00:24:59.960
was like a global thing, and it was kind of like,

461
00:25:00.440 --> 00:25:02.240
isn't it bad in China? And we were sitting in

462
00:25:02.279 --> 00:25:03.880
America and it was like a ghost town in the

463
00:25:03.920 --> 00:25:07.839
middle of San Francisco. There was no one around. And

464
00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:11.000
someone from the consulate office called and they were like,

465
00:25:11.039 --> 00:25:13.480
this is not official advice, but if I were you,

466
00:25:13.960 --> 00:25:16.079
I would go to an airport and I would sit

467
00:25:16.119 --> 00:25:18.079
there until I got on a plane. It is quite

468
00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:20.799
important you know that you do this. So we did

469
00:25:20.799 --> 00:25:23.640
as a crew. We like drove drove five hours to

470
00:25:23.680 --> 00:25:26.599
su airport and sat there on the floor and went

471
00:25:26.640 --> 00:25:28.480
on a stand by list until we got home. And

472
00:25:28.519 --> 00:25:31.960
we arrived home back to Australia the day before the

473
00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:36.880
borders closed. And then so kind of like sitting on

474
00:25:36.920 --> 00:25:39.319
the plane on the way home and seeing the world

475
00:25:39.480 --> 00:25:42.839
change and arriving back to like a new, a new

476
00:25:42.920 --> 00:25:47.559
world when we got home and twenty thousand tickets that

477
00:25:47.599 --> 00:25:50.960
we had sold all kind of evaporated overnight while we

478
00:25:50.960 --> 00:25:53.200
were on that flight, Like our lives are really different

479
00:25:53.240 --> 00:25:56.079
when we arrived back. So I think that that was

480
00:25:57.599 --> 00:26:00.039
it was a huge turning point in everyone's lives. No

481
00:26:00.160 --> 00:26:02.920
matter what happened, everyone went through some kind of loss

482
00:26:02.599 --> 00:26:08.000
and a huge change. And so that was I don't know.

483
00:26:08.079 --> 00:26:09.519
Looking back on it, I think it was just a

484
00:26:09.519 --> 00:26:13.480
strange time for everyone to kind of reevaluate who you

485
00:26:13.559 --> 00:26:15.960
are and why you do what you do and what's

486
00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:19.319
important for you. And yeah, it was a good, big.

487
00:26:19.119 --> 00:26:23.160
Time devastating though. I mean, obviously it affected everybody in

488
00:26:23.160 --> 00:26:27.759
a different way. But to be just like really kicking

489
00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:31.759
goals and to have that happen, that's devastating.

490
00:26:32.440 --> 00:26:34.160
Yeah, it was.

491
00:26:34.400 --> 00:26:36.359
Briefly houch Choir was born from that.

492
00:26:36.960 --> 00:26:39.240
Yeah, that's it. Like it sort of was devastating for

493
00:26:39.319 --> 00:26:42.519
twenty four hours, and then I was like, well, naively,

494
00:26:42.680 --> 00:26:45.240
I think everyone was like, gee, COVID's going to be

495
00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:48.960
a busy week. But I think we didn't appreciate we did.

496
00:26:49.000 --> 00:26:52.359
Do you read that. Everyone was just like gy, Yeah,

497
00:26:52.440 --> 00:26:54.599
we thought it would be like, oh, this week off

498
00:26:54.640 --> 00:26:56.759
work is going to be awesome. Like, I don't know.

499
00:26:56.799 --> 00:26:59.359
It was a curiosity at the beginning, and so I

500
00:26:59.519 --> 00:27:03.279
kind of had energy at the beginning because I was like, well,

501
00:27:03.319 --> 00:27:06.759
let's make the most of this four day weekend. Let's

502
00:27:06.799 --> 00:27:10.519
make the most of this brief time where everyone's at

503
00:27:10.559 --> 00:27:12.559
home at the same time. And then in two weeks

504
00:27:12.559 --> 00:27:14.559
when you laugh about this, so I mean, of course,

505
00:27:14.559 --> 00:27:17.200
we didn't know what we've never experienced before, and so

506
00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:20.079
I had all of this energy and I thought, oh, well,

507
00:27:20.079 --> 00:27:23.160
if everyone's at home for this one weekend, why don't

508
00:27:23.160 --> 00:27:26.599
we do some singing from home. And so that's what

509
00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:31.920
we created. I shifted to couch Choir, which was rather

510
00:27:31.960 --> 00:27:34.119
than a live experience of pub choir, where I teach

511
00:27:34.160 --> 00:27:39.200
people in a physical space together. I pre recorded my

512
00:27:39.759 --> 00:27:42.359
instructions about what I would have taught people to sing

513
00:27:42.400 --> 00:27:44.799
at the show, and I popped those three videos up

514
00:27:44.839 --> 00:27:46.920
for three three different harmonies that you could learn, and

515
00:27:46.960 --> 00:27:49.000
I said, if you like the sound of any of those,

516
00:27:49.759 --> 00:27:52.960
listen to it a few times and record yourself singing

517
00:27:53.000 --> 00:27:56.680
along with me. I'll be your companion and send us

518
00:27:56.680 --> 00:27:59.319
a video of that performance. And so we like stitch

519
00:27:59.440 --> 00:28:01.559
together the virtual Choir. I'm sure everyone's seen it and

520
00:28:01.599 --> 00:28:04.359
it seems boring now, but at the beginning of twenty twenty,

521
00:28:04.359 --> 00:28:07.400
it was actually really new, and I think we kind

522
00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:11.480
of paved a way for people to feel connected at

523
00:28:11.480 --> 00:28:14.839
like a really confusing and topsy turby time for everyone.

524
00:28:14.960 --> 00:28:21.039
So in a strange way, COVID gave us well, it

525
00:28:21.240 --> 00:28:26.359
forced us to reconsider what music making is and how

526
00:28:26.359 --> 00:28:28.400
it feels for people. And it turns out you don't

527
00:28:28.400 --> 00:28:31.359
even need to hear each other to make stuff together.

528
00:28:32.839 --> 00:28:35.079
We don't need to be in the same room to

529
00:28:35.119 --> 00:28:37.440
make a beautiful piece of music. We don't even need

530
00:28:37.480 --> 00:28:41.039
to be able to sing to join in with creativity

531
00:28:41.119 --> 00:28:43.559
and music making. Because we started getting videos from the

532
00:28:43.599 --> 00:28:46.640
deaf community and people doing sign language, and I had

533
00:28:47.000 --> 00:28:51.279
videos of nonverbal children banging a drum and it was

534
00:28:51.400 --> 00:28:55.480
all good stuff. It was all music, and so it

535
00:28:55.720 --> 00:28:59.039
changed how I saw my own work and I wouldn't

536
00:28:59.119 --> 00:29:02.240
have sa there and reflected on that were it not

537
00:29:02.359 --> 00:29:07.359
for this, you know, being forced to stop and to

538
00:29:07.480 --> 00:29:10.839
reflect and so in a weird way. Of course, I

539
00:29:10.960 --> 00:29:15.480
know it's difficult for everyone and a really challenging time,

540
00:29:15.839 --> 00:29:19.319
but you know there was a silver lining for me.

541
00:29:19.920 --> 00:29:20.160
Yes?

542
00:29:20.799 --> 00:29:21.319
Is that wrong?

543
00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:24.200
Oh my gosh, you have to find the silver lining.

544
00:29:24.720 --> 00:29:27.480
Like I said, I had not had the opportunity to

545
00:29:27.640 --> 00:29:30.039
attend a live pub Quires living on the Sunshine Coast,

546
00:29:30.079 --> 00:29:32.839
and that wasn't one on the coast at the time,

547
00:29:33.640 --> 00:29:35.440
so I was actually kind of excited to be able

548
00:29:35.519 --> 00:29:38.759
to participate when couch Choir happened, and I remember that

549
00:29:38.839 --> 00:29:41.480
I remember it's very weird in singing on your own

550
00:29:41.480 --> 00:29:44.480
in your house, sending in the video, but it was

551
00:29:44.599 --> 00:29:49.200
so exciting to see that compilation come out and to

552
00:29:49.359 --> 00:29:52.599
find your little face on the screen. I mean, how

553
00:29:52.720 --> 00:29:54.839
much work must have gone into that for you. But

554
00:29:55.119 --> 00:30:00.960
as a participant, it was such a connecting experience. It

555
00:30:01.039 --> 00:30:03.640
was really great.

556
00:30:04.359 --> 00:30:08.480
That's so nice to hear. I can't overstate how much

557
00:30:08.519 --> 00:30:11.880
we enjoyed doing it as well, especially at the beginning

558
00:30:11.920 --> 00:30:14.160
when it was like, no one's done this before, like

559
00:30:14.200 --> 00:30:18.079
I wonder what will happen. I am eternally indebted to

560
00:30:18.119 --> 00:30:21.799
the people that you know, stuck with the work because

561
00:30:21.839 --> 00:30:23.359
we weren't doing it for money.

562
00:30:23.519 --> 00:30:23.880
No, it was.

563
00:30:24.039 --> 00:30:25.759
It was for free because none of us had jobs

564
00:30:25.799 --> 00:30:30.119
for a bit. So I am eternally grateful to Paris Owen,

565
00:30:30.160 --> 00:30:33.880
who is my videographer who just did it. She was

566
00:30:34.279 --> 00:30:36.039
I was like, I'll put the lessons out for free,

567
00:30:36.079 --> 00:30:38.400
and what are you doing? She's like, another, do you

568
00:30:38.440 --> 00:30:40.519
want to figure out how to like make a video

569
00:30:40.519 --> 00:30:43.160
with a thousand people? Just like all right? And you know,

570
00:30:43.279 --> 00:30:47.799
my pubchise manager John Patterson would sit there and you know,

571
00:30:48.119 --> 00:30:51.160
encode every video that came through and like we just

572
00:30:51.200 --> 00:30:54.480
had this working bee of generous, enthusiastic people who just

573
00:30:54.519 --> 00:30:58.599
wanted to do something positive. I had another like a

574
00:30:58.759 --> 00:31:02.160
co editor, Jacob Sosnovsky, and then I started involving a

575
00:31:02.279 --> 00:31:04.160
sound engineer to help me mix it because I was

576
00:31:04.200 --> 00:31:06.880
doing all than mixing at the beginning. Steve Thornley. Basically,

577
00:31:06.920 --> 00:31:09.640
I just got a bunch of people who were like, well,

578
00:31:09.920 --> 00:31:13.680
it's not making anything worse, let's do that. Let's do

579
00:31:13.759 --> 00:31:15.559
the thing, like, let's see if we can make it better,

580
00:31:15.759 --> 00:31:19.000
but certainly not making anything worse. And I don't know,

581
00:31:19.119 --> 00:31:22.039
I feel like it really gave us something to look

582
00:31:22.079 --> 00:31:27.319
forward to as well. And it was so weirdly intimate. Yeah,

583
00:31:27.359 --> 00:31:30.000
you'd think it would be not because we're not in

584
00:31:30.039 --> 00:31:32.559
the room together, but actually people were sending like really

585
00:31:32.640 --> 00:31:35.839
vulnerable videos, like it's a lot to record yourself singing

586
00:31:35.880 --> 00:31:38.799
with all of your imperfections and then to trust that

587
00:31:39.599 --> 00:31:42.200
us strangers somewhere else in the world, we're not going

588
00:31:42.200 --> 00:31:45.400
to betray you. And it was like really intimate to

589
00:31:45.400 --> 00:31:50.440
get these videos of people just like singing to themselves alone.

590
00:31:51.960 --> 00:31:54.920
It's a lot. It was a lot of trust going on,

591
00:31:56.200 --> 00:31:59.960
and I found the product of those couch choir sessions

592
00:32:00.200 --> 00:32:03.839
to be the most beautiful thing. Like pub choir is

593
00:32:03.880 --> 00:32:07.359
really exciting and energetic and the crowd carries each other,

594
00:32:07.960 --> 00:32:14.559
but at couch choir it was like this really personal, beautiful, thoughtful,

595
00:32:14.640 --> 00:32:20.240
introspective thing, and it was a huge privilege in a

596
00:32:20.279 --> 00:32:24.519
treat to facilitate that. I really enjoyed it.

597
00:32:24.640 --> 00:32:26.839
In the end. How many couch choirs were there.

598
00:32:29.640 --> 00:32:32.000
I think we probably did about five or six. And

599
00:32:32.039 --> 00:32:34.519
then actually we did want early this year to say

600
00:32:34.559 --> 00:32:38.640
thank you again because I think a lot of people

601
00:32:38.759 --> 00:32:42.319
kind of became invested in what we were doing. And

602
00:32:42.400 --> 00:32:44.839
then once live shows started happening again, there are all

603
00:32:44.880 --> 00:32:47.519
these people around the world being like, hey, remember us,

604
00:32:48.119 --> 00:32:50.279
And so we did another one this year, which was

605
00:32:50.319 --> 00:32:52.279
really lovely to just like check back in with everyone

606
00:32:52.279 --> 00:32:56.319
and be like, hey, we still are grateful and still

607
00:32:56.359 --> 00:33:00.640
want to make music with you. But yeah, I guess

608
00:33:00.720 --> 00:33:05.000
my real skill in this world, I think is convincing strangers,

609
00:33:05.839 --> 00:33:09.319
hesitant people in the room to sing with me. And

610
00:33:09.400 --> 00:33:13.920
so I can't do everything all of the time, but.

611
00:33:13.960 --> 00:33:17.319
It is Yeah, you need to make a living too, right.

612
00:33:17.720 --> 00:33:18.440
Yeah it's true.

613
00:33:18.519 --> 00:33:21.640
Yeah, it was a beautiful It was a beautiful beautiful

614
00:33:21.640 --> 00:33:23.960
thing that you did, and like you said, it was

615
00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:26.279
a lot of work and you did it for nothing.

616
00:33:26.359 --> 00:33:30.039
But you know what you do is you do pub choir.

617
00:33:30.279 --> 00:33:31.559
I'm sure you do other things as well.

618
00:33:31.559 --> 00:33:35.160
They're right. What else sustains you beyond pubchoir?

619
00:33:36.119 --> 00:33:40.559
Pubquir is the biggest piece of the pie. Is it's

620
00:33:40.599 --> 00:33:44.400
like a full time plus plus thing. I certainly do

621
00:33:44.599 --> 00:33:47.079
this full time, and because we also do it privately,

622
00:33:47.519 --> 00:33:49.119
not so much at the moment when we're touring, but

623
00:33:49.200 --> 00:33:51.920
like throughout the year when there are dips, like you know,

624
00:33:51.960 --> 00:33:55.039
we're not on tour and I've got a couple of

625
00:33:55.039 --> 00:33:57.599
weeks with no public shows, we might do say corporate

626
00:33:57.640 --> 00:34:00.720
engagement where a business might get get me to come

627
00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:04.400
along and like force their miserable employees to sing together,

628
00:34:05.759 --> 00:34:08.360
which I love. I love as a power trip. Yeah,

629
00:34:08.360 --> 00:34:11.199
it's a real power trip. So we do things like that.

630
00:34:11.679 --> 00:34:13.880
But then yes, I have a lot of side quests

631
00:34:13.960 --> 00:34:16.159
going on, Like I'm in Perth at the moment ahead

632
00:34:16.159 --> 00:34:18.480
of our pub choir show a few days early because

633
00:34:18.920 --> 00:34:21.199
I'm on the board of an arts think tank trying

634
00:34:21.239 --> 00:34:26.440
to promote Australia as a cultural powerhouse in the world

635
00:34:26.480 --> 00:34:31.599
and finding ways that we can kind of collate non

636
00:34:32.119 --> 00:34:35.320
partisan research and present that to decision makers in the

637
00:34:35.360 --> 00:34:38.519
country about why it's important that there's more of this stuff.

638
00:34:40.039 --> 00:34:45.000
And you know, I write music as well for choirs

639
00:34:45.039 --> 00:34:47.360
to sing. I did a collection of twenty songs earlier

640
00:34:47.360 --> 00:34:50.440
this year that are going to be released as part

641
00:34:50.440 --> 00:34:53.960
of this like Queensland Legacy project where people can access

642
00:34:54.000 --> 00:34:55.800
it for free and community christ I don't know. I

643
00:34:55.840 --> 00:34:59.559
love a side quest I do. I do like to

644
00:34:59.639 --> 00:35:05.400
feel as though I'm keeping my brain healthy on a

645
00:35:05.440 --> 00:35:09.079
few different projects at once, because I you know, sometimes

646
00:35:09.079 --> 00:35:11.559
I do feel like if I get too stuck in

647
00:35:11.639 --> 00:35:13.679
pub choir world, it almost becomes like a bit of

648
00:35:13.679 --> 00:35:17.880
a song curse where I'm like just thinking about I'm

649
00:35:17.920 --> 00:35:21.199
just like living song to sol and just like obsessing

650
00:35:21.280 --> 00:35:23.480
over like the different harmonies that I'm going to make.

651
00:35:23.519 --> 00:35:25.840
So it's nice to diversify a little bit, but I

652
00:35:26.239 --> 00:35:29.199
really can't deny that pub choir is the most of

653
00:35:29.239 --> 00:35:29.880
the pot.

654
00:35:30.039 --> 00:35:31.320
Well, you're very good at it.

655
00:35:31.920 --> 00:35:37.639
I host this podcast and at the moment, I'm moving

656
00:35:37.840 --> 00:35:39.880
away from a network and taking over the podcast as

657
00:35:39.880 --> 00:35:41.840
an independent creator, which means that I need to take

658
00:35:41.880 --> 00:35:44.199
over the license for the intro music that I use

659
00:35:44.199 --> 00:35:46.320
on the show, and I thought, oh, yeah, I'll do that,

660
00:35:46.320 --> 00:35:48.239
that's no problem. And everybody said, just you just go

661
00:35:48.280 --> 00:35:50.960
and you just take over the license. And then they

662
00:35:51.000 --> 00:35:53.639
came back to me and said that will be I'm

663
00:35:53.639 --> 00:35:55.000
going to round up, but that's going to be ten

664
00:35:55.039 --> 00:35:59.239
thousand dollars a year for you to use that that

665
00:35:59.639 --> 00:36:03.280
thirty seconds of jingle at the start of your podcast.

666
00:36:03.920 --> 00:36:07.079
And this has been my first experience of music licensing.

667
00:36:08.199 --> 00:36:11.320
Music publishing. Like, artists need to be paid.

668
00:36:11.360 --> 00:36:14.880
I of course they do, and this is not a

669
00:36:14.880 --> 00:36:17.159
world that I live in. But how do you go

670
00:36:17.280 --> 00:36:21.320
with that? Do you need to pay licensing fees at royalties?

671
00:36:21.679 --> 00:36:23.960
You know when you use songs? Do you get knocked

672
00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:26.840
back for songs that you want to use? How does

673
00:36:26.880 --> 00:36:28.400
all that play into it?

674
00:36:30.360 --> 00:36:33.800
I'm sorry that you are now becoming familiar with this

675
00:36:33.840 --> 00:36:38.119
start of things. It is I mean, let's just say

676
00:36:38.159 --> 00:36:41.719
it's a punish on the daily. I also believe that

677
00:36:41.800 --> 00:36:45.519
artists should be paid for songs. Absolutely. I do think

678
00:36:45.519 --> 00:36:51.159
that the publishing world is very complicated and not always

679
00:36:51.199 --> 00:36:57.400
transparent and difficult to navigate, and so yes, absolutely we

680
00:36:57.480 --> 00:37:02.199
pay every song that we do. We pay a license to. Well,

681
00:37:02.239 --> 00:37:05.079
it's been decided that they are re releases and not

682
00:37:05.159 --> 00:37:08.159
covers of songs. So I think that that is also

683
00:37:08.400 --> 00:37:11.679
a fraud conversation because I think that we are covering

684
00:37:11.760 --> 00:37:17.840
songs quite faithfully. But we pay a re release license

685
00:37:17.960 --> 00:37:22.519
per per show, and then we pay a license to

686
00:37:23.320 --> 00:37:25.280
so that that means we can make a video out

687
00:37:25.280 --> 00:37:29.000
of it. But and we pay a license to basically

688
00:37:29.119 --> 00:37:31.440
hire the lyrics out of the song for a night

689
00:37:33.000 --> 00:37:36.559
and all of that stuff without being too boring, it's

690
00:37:36.760 --> 00:37:40.360
individually negotiated per song. So there's no like you can't

691
00:37:40.400 --> 00:37:43.920
just go to like song publisher dot com dot au

692
00:37:44.679 --> 00:37:48.360
like there's no like there's no place to go if

693
00:37:48.400 --> 00:37:51.320
only there's no place to go where there's like centralized information.

694
00:37:51.400 --> 00:37:55.480
It's quite a complicated area of the arts, and so

695
00:37:55.679 --> 00:37:59.920
you have to go and find who represents each individual song.

696
00:38:00.199 --> 00:38:02.639
And of course every song is written in different ways

697
00:38:02.679 --> 00:38:09.360
and so sometimes there are ten songwriter holders who the

698
00:38:09.440 --> 00:38:11.400
song belongs to, and you have to get them all

699
00:38:11.440 --> 00:38:14.719
to agree at the same time. It is a big job.

700
00:38:15.400 --> 00:38:20.280
I'm not convinced that the way that music publishing is

701
00:38:20.320 --> 00:38:23.800
set up in Australia actually does serve the artist best,

702
00:38:24.559 --> 00:38:27.960
because I think that I should be paid for their work,

703
00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:29.559
and I'm not sure that the system that we have

704
00:38:29.639 --> 00:38:32.760
in place at the moment does that. But that feels

705
00:38:32.800 --> 00:38:35.639
like a whole conversation for another day. But it certainly

706
00:38:35.719 --> 00:38:38.960
is complicated, and I agree with you that it can

707
00:38:39.039 --> 00:38:40.519
be a bit of a shock sometimes.

708
00:38:40.639 --> 00:38:43.639
So therefore, how far in advance are you having to

709
00:38:43.800 --> 00:38:46.039
This is just me getting nosy. How far in advance

710
00:38:46.079 --> 00:38:49.199
do you need to be planning and preparing and choosing

711
00:38:50.239 --> 00:38:52.239
because that sounds like quite a well.

712
00:38:53.360 --> 00:39:01.719
Yeah, look, I do find it impossible task to plan

713
00:39:01.840 --> 00:39:06.119
ahead because I try. Not that I'm trying. I'm like

714
00:39:06.159 --> 00:39:08.320
always scrabbling around looking to see if there's a song

715
00:39:08.320 --> 00:39:10.280
in the news. It's not like that. It's more like

716
00:39:11.000 --> 00:39:14.440
I do try to respond to the energy of what

717
00:39:14.519 --> 00:39:17.599
I imagine is coming up, so like, I don't know.

718
00:39:17.679 --> 00:39:20.719
Sometimes we just get to November and say I had

719
00:39:20.760 --> 00:39:23.920
booked in fifteen songs for every show or whatever of

720
00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:26.599
the year, and we get to November and it's like, gee,

721
00:39:27.079 --> 00:39:29.159
if we sing that, it's going to feel totally wrong

722
00:39:29.199 --> 00:39:32.480
for how the mood of society is at the moment,

723
00:39:32.519 --> 00:39:36.880
Like we need a reggae song, like you know, I

724
00:39:37.000 --> 00:39:38.960
try to respond in real time, So actually it would

725
00:39:39.000 --> 00:39:43.639
be I think a problem if I had tried to

726
00:39:43.840 --> 00:39:46.679
slot in licenses ahead of time, because once you ask,

727
00:39:47.039 --> 00:39:50.840
you're locked in, you know, and you owe money, and

728
00:39:50.880 --> 00:39:52.840
so it's not as fluid as I would hope. So

729
00:39:52.880 --> 00:39:56.800
I probably am living two to three months ahead at

730
00:39:56.840 --> 00:40:02.280
all times. I've got a fantastic manager called John, and

731
00:40:02.360 --> 00:40:05.960
he has I kind of give him two or three

732
00:40:06.079 --> 00:40:08.400
options every couple of months so that he's got a

733
00:40:08.440 --> 00:40:11.719
few on the go, and we always have like sort

734
00:40:11.760 --> 00:40:14.599
of one emergency song that has been paid for that

735
00:40:14.639 --> 00:40:19.599
hasn't been used yet, just in case. But yeah, we're

736
00:40:19.639 --> 00:40:23.960
probably like two or three months ahead making requests. It

737
00:40:24.039 --> 00:40:27.480
takes about a month turnaround if it would be accepted.

738
00:40:27.960 --> 00:40:36.440
If it takes longer than that, that feels like a no. Anyway. Yeah,

739
00:40:33.239 --> 00:40:41.039
it's a mystical process and I wouldn't wish it upon anyone.

740
00:40:41.559 --> 00:40:43.679
People show up and sing and think, God, this is fun.

741
00:40:43.800 --> 00:40:49.400
There is so much that goes into that. Yeah, apart

742
00:40:49.400 --> 00:40:52.079
from the cranberries, which you talked about, and that sounds

743
00:40:52.079 --> 00:40:56.039
like it would have been amazing. Well, have there been

744
00:40:56.079 --> 00:40:59.880
any other standout moments like what's the highlight?

745
00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:00.559
Would you say?

746
00:41:02.159 --> 00:41:05.360
Oh, there are so many? Honestly, I mean it might

747
00:41:05.400 --> 00:41:08.480
sound arrogant, but I just find every show to be

748
00:41:09.440 --> 00:41:12.599
kind of a miracle in itself because even if it's

749
00:41:12.639 --> 00:41:16.599
the same song, people feel different and they come with

750
00:41:16.639 --> 00:41:20.639
different energies and it's a totally it's a totally unique

751
00:41:20.679 --> 00:41:22.960
experience every time, and I never know what it will

752
00:41:23.000 --> 00:41:25.679
be until it arrives, you know, So that is pretty

753
00:41:25.719 --> 00:41:30.079
magical to me in itself. I think one that I

754
00:41:30.159 --> 00:41:37.000
go back and listen to myself is the first Christmas

755
00:41:37.039 --> 00:41:39.599
show that we did. We just did Paul Kelly's How

756
00:41:39.639 --> 00:41:42.920
to Make Gravy, and it was the first time I

757
00:41:42.960 --> 00:41:49.039
had included a string quartet because I love orchestrating for

758
00:41:50.679 --> 00:41:53.320
other instruments to join the choir, because I just I

759
00:41:53.360 --> 00:41:55.679
don't know. I love the merging of worlds. I love

760
00:41:55.760 --> 00:41:58.760
the idea that there's like I think at that show

761
00:41:58.800 --> 00:42:00.840
there was three thousand people, and it's like, I love

762
00:42:00.880 --> 00:42:05.039
the idea of three thousand kind of drunk strangers who

763
00:42:05.880 --> 00:42:08.920
might feel really embarrassed about making stuff in public. I

764
00:42:08.960 --> 00:42:11.960
love that they are singing a song with like the

765
00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:15.840
premiere string quartet of Queensland, like it's a real colliding

766
00:42:15.880 --> 00:42:20.199
of worlds and being like, hey, we everyone deserves music

767
00:42:20.239 --> 00:42:22.480
of every quality, and you know, like this is for

768
00:42:22.519 --> 00:42:24.880
all of us to share any time, like it's special

769
00:42:24.920 --> 00:42:27.719
for tonight, but you know you're allowed to enjoy a

770
00:42:27.719 --> 00:42:29.800
string quartet anytime as well. So that was the first

771
00:42:29.800 --> 00:42:31.360
time that happened, and I feel like there was just

772
00:42:31.400 --> 00:42:36.000
like this special I don't know, power in the air

773
00:42:36.079 --> 00:42:38.199
that night, and I watched that video and even though

774
00:42:38.199 --> 00:42:40.920
it's like not the best recorded, like we've gotten better

775
00:42:40.920 --> 00:42:43.440
at capturing the singing of the audience and everything like that,

776
00:42:44.119 --> 00:42:46.159
it was kind of like hiqulty pickledy that night and

777
00:42:46.239 --> 00:42:48.039
I don't know, for some reason, it just works in

778
00:42:48.079 --> 00:42:51.119
a beautiful way. And I listened to that a couple

779
00:42:51.199 --> 00:42:53.760
of times a year where I'm just like, that's all right,

780
00:42:54.119 --> 00:42:57.920
this feels really good. So that one pets me out,

781
00:42:57.920 --> 00:43:00.239
but they're all good, Like I love them all. I'm

782
00:43:00.280 --> 00:43:03.639
just having a lovely life. I'm having a nice time.

783
00:43:04.239 --> 00:43:06.320
Giving us all such a nice time as well. We

784
00:43:06.400 --> 00:43:11.400
appreciate you, Astred. I know that you're traveling overseas, you

785
00:43:11.440 --> 00:43:14.320
would you like to share where you're going, what you're doing.

786
00:43:14.719 --> 00:43:18.239
I will be seeing you in London, So tell us

787
00:43:18.239 --> 00:43:21.599
about the tell us about the international tour and what's

788
00:43:21.679 --> 00:43:23.480
I guess just what's happening in Yeah.

789
00:43:23.519 --> 00:43:26.159
Look, I'm not sure exactly when this podcast is going out,

790
00:43:26.159 --> 00:43:30.639
but on Sunday I'm going week to Edinburgh. Yeah next week, great,

791
00:43:30.679 --> 00:43:34.760
Well then I'm in the UK as you hear this. Yeah, yeah,

792
00:43:34.840 --> 00:43:37.559
So we're doing Edinburgh Fringe, just actually for one big show,

793
00:43:38.199 --> 00:43:40.440
and then we're traveling around England a little bit. We've

794
00:43:40.440 --> 00:43:44.039
got a show in London. They're all selling really well,

795
00:43:44.079 --> 00:43:46.440
except for Manchester. For some reason. I feel like they're

796
00:43:46.440 --> 00:43:48.639
on a digital detox in that city. So if you

797
00:43:48.719 --> 00:43:51.639
know someone in Manchester, land know that we're coming. We'll

798
00:43:51.679 --> 00:43:56.480
also be in like Birmingham, Nottingham, a few other fun

799
00:43:56.519 --> 00:44:00.519
places and definitely London, and then we'll head over to America.

800
00:44:01.000 --> 00:44:04.280
And we've got about ten shows across the US as well,

801
00:44:04.320 --> 00:44:08.800
and so if you want in, everyone is welcome. I

802
00:44:08.840 --> 00:44:11.360
don't care how weird your voice sounds, it doesn't matter,

803
00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:14.199
and we'll have a lovely time together. And you just

804
00:44:14.239 --> 00:44:17.679
head to pub quiet dot com dot au and there

805
00:44:17.679 --> 00:44:19.559
are some tickets available, but quite a lot of it

806
00:44:19.599 --> 00:44:21.519
is sold out, like I know leads have sold out

807
00:44:22.559 --> 00:44:24.480
and a few other little places along the way. So

808
00:44:25.039 --> 00:44:27.440
getting quick and if you know anyone in Manchester, tell

809
00:44:27.480 --> 00:44:31.159
them to log back into their social media profiles so

810
00:44:31.199 --> 00:44:32.519
that they can see the information.

811
00:44:33.760 --> 00:44:36.000
I can tell you I've been doing my part.

812
00:44:36.039 --> 00:44:40.119
I've been sharing your links inside any Aussie in London

813
00:44:40.280 --> 00:44:43.920
kind of Facebook groups. I've got friends in DC and

814
00:44:43.960 --> 00:44:46.079
I've sent them the links. I've said, you have to

815
00:44:46.119 --> 00:44:49.760
go along to this event. So I am flying the

816
00:44:49.760 --> 00:44:53.599
flag for pub QUI internationally astrid doing but it sounds

817
00:44:53.599 --> 00:44:57.039
like you don't need it necessarily, but I'm doing my part.

818
00:44:58.920 --> 00:45:01.679
Well. I appreciate thank you so much, and I'm really

819
00:45:01.760 --> 00:45:03.679
excited to meet you in person and to have us

820
00:45:03.679 --> 00:45:06.440
sing together in London, and you know, it's going to

821
00:45:06.480 --> 00:45:07.239
feel really great.

822
00:45:07.599 --> 00:45:09.480
It's going to be amazing. Thank you so much for

823
00:45:09.559 --> 00:45:10.159
joining me today.

824
00:45:10.199 --> 00:45:12.519
I so appreciate you taking the time, Asterid, and thank

825
00:45:12.559 --> 00:45:13.519
you for everything that you do.

826
00:45:14.239 --> 00:45:17.760
Oh that's so kind. I've had a lovely conversation. Love

827
00:45:17.840 --> 00:45:19.960
to chat anytime, and I can't wait to sing with

828
00:45:19.960 --> 00:45:20.280
you soon.

829
00:45:21.360 --> 00:45:26.159
Grab your tickets at pubquir dot com dot au. I

830
00:45:26.239 --> 00:45:28.960
will definitely be there singing my little heart out next

831
00:45:29.000 --> 00:45:31.960
week in London. I'll share on my social media. Cash

832
00:45:32.000 --> 00:45:36.840
done underscore XO. If you've enjoyed the show, please remember

833
00:45:36.840 --> 00:45:39.239
to give us a rating, end review, and of course

834
00:45:39.280 --> 00:45:40.239
I can't wait.

835
00:45:40.039 --> 00:45:49.400
To catch you again next week. I'm crappy to happy