Feb. 6, 2019

Raising tweens with Rebecca Sparrow

Raising tweens with Rebecca Sparrow
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Raising tweens with Rebecca Sparrow
Raising tweens with Rebecca Sparrow
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Season 3 Relationships

Rebecca Sparrow helps parents navigate the tricky road of early adolescence. Bec and Cass Dunn discuss how to be a positive role model, keep communication open and support our kids through difficult times.Connect with Cass:www.crappytohappypod.comhello@crappytohappypod.com 
www.instagram.com/crappytohappypodwww.tiktok.com/crappytohappypod
Join the free 7-day Happiness Challenge:www.cassdunn.com/happiness

Connect with Cass:

www.cassdunn.com
www.instagram.com/cassdunn_xo

Contact Crappy to Happy:

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Transcript
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A listener production. Hi, you're listening to Crappy to Happy,

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and I'm your host, Cas Dunn. I'm a clinical and

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coaching psychologist, mindfulness meditation teacher, and author of the Crappy

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to Happy books. In this series, we look at all

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the factors that might be making you feel crappy and

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the tools and the techniques that will help you overcome them.

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In each episode, I introduce you to interesting, inspiring, intelligent

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people who are experts in their field, and my hope

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is that they will help you go from crappy to happy.

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In today's episode, I'm talking to Rebecca Sparrow, who's an

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author and columnist, and more recently, she's undertaken to help

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high school students and their parents navigate the choppy waters

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of adolescents by going into schools and talking about things

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like friendship, resilience, and how to have a more positive

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online experience. Beck and I talked about some of the

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things that our kids aren't telling us are so that

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if you're a parent, you will love this episode. But

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even if you're not, I think you'll find that there's

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a lot of interesting stuff to take away. Beck. You

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are an author and a columnist and of course, you're

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a mother of three these days, though you've created a

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business around supporting particularly tween and teen girls and helping

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their parents to have a better relationship with their daughters.

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Is that right?

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Yeah?

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Look, probably, I guess.

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I've been working with tweens and teens since about two

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thousand and three. Look, I'm really passionate if there's such

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a thing as that when people have a life purpose,

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I feel like mine is to help tween and teenage

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girls have a better experience at school. And then that,

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in the last I guessed two years has morphed into

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also me sort of working with the parents, and so

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I think I feel like I'm a bit of a

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bridge sometimes between the girls and the moms, if that

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makes sense, Yeah.

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For sure, for sure. The reason I was so keen

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to have you in and have a conversation with you

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is because on this show we have covered a lot

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of issues that affect women. You know, We've talked about

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the perfectionism, the inner critic, body image issues, all of

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that kind of stuff, And of course we know that

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a lot of those issues take their route really early on,

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and as parents, like as mothers who have grappled with

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those issues, we want something different and better for our kids.

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I guess, you know, we want to be a positive influence,

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and so I think that there will be a lot

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of our listeners who will be really keen to hear,

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you know, or to learn, well, how do we make

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sure that we give our kids, our daughters especially a

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different experience or help them to navigate some of these

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issues which can be they last for a long time

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once they take home.

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It's really interesting you say that, because when my last

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nonfiction book came out, which would be Goodness, three or

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four years ago. Now, I collected all these anonymous questions

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from thirteen and fourteen year old girls, and because when

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I'd go into schools and I started saying to them,

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I always say, you can ask me anything. And then

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I realized that the questions that the girls most wanted

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to ask was one that they were never going to

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put their hand up and ask in front of their friends.

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So I started saying, get out a piece of paper.

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If there's one question that you wish that you could

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ask me without anyone else knowing, write it on this

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piece of paper, fold it up, and you're going to

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put it in a bag before you leave the room. Anyway,

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So I cut along story short, the book came out.

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I answered all of those questions, and the book came out,

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and then when I started doing events for that book,

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moms started coming up to me crying because it had

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triggered so the questions and the girls asked everything from

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I'm ugly, so how will I ever get a boyfriend?

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Why when your parents split up does one parent lose

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interest in you? I would say sixty percent of the

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questions were about friendship. I thought they were going to

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be about dating and crushes, but no, at least sixty

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percent were about friendship. But I thought was really interesting

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that the moms who had read the book were getting

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very emotional about stuff that obviously they had gone through

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in high school and they wanted a different experience for

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their girl. So that was really interesting for me. And

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that's when I think you sort of see a red

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flag there of like, how do we change that story

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when we've had a certain experience and what do and

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maybe we were never taught how to handle something.

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And so I guess one of the questions that I

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had for you it was, you know, what kinds of

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things do girls typically ask you? With the benefit of

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that anonymity.

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Yeah, you know, what are the things.

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They struggle with that they're perhaps not asking their parents

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for help with.

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Look, I think the biggest one that I have noticed,

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And certainly they weren't asking me about Instagram or they

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weren't asking me about Snapchat or phones necessarily, because when

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you think about it, the issues that happen, they are platforms.

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Like in the eighties, I would never have said to

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my mom, I'm having issues with the telephone right because

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it's not it's not the vehicle that's necessarily being used.

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It's what's going down. Sure, And it comes down to

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friendship stuff. So whether you are being excluded on Instagram

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by your group of friends, or you're being excluded in

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real life at school at the lunch out, it's the

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same issue. I did another event two months ago, and

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this time I had girls who were aged probably eight

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to twelve, and I just took questions from the audience.

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Friendship.

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Wow.

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It was.

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How do I know if my friends really like me?

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Why when I finally have gone to the same school

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as my best friend and now she won't talk to me?

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Why has the girl who's my best friend betrayed me?

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I I'm with a group of friends. But I don't

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want to be with these friends anymore. I want to

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be with this other group of friends, but they don't

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want me. How do I get them to want me?

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So it's really interesting, and I think we've got to

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remember that our kids aren't born knowing how to navigate friendship.

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It's something that you learn, like you just you don't.

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You're not born knowing what a good friendship looks and

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feels like unless somebody teaches you, you know, unless you

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have these conversations and your and your your mum in particular,

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is modeling it for you with her friendships. So I

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think that somewhere along the way with this generation of parents,

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myself included, we have we've dropped to the ball cass

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or we have forgotten how to connect with our kids.

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But there's some disconnect here happening where we're not having

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some big conversations.

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What I've that's really interesting about that is how you

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say you know? Because for parents, if you talk to

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parents about what are the challenges you have with parenting

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tweens and teens or just kids generally, Oh gosh, you

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know social media and how do we manage that and

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how do we put boundaries around screen time and you know,

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all of that sort of stuff. But you're quite right.

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From a kid's perspective, that's just part of the world

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that they live in. So that's something that's new and

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different for us. Yeah, but you're right, it's just a

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different manifestation, potentially different platform.

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Yeah. For the same parents are saying they're on their

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phones too much, so we aren't sat Well, that's exactly right.

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So the kids aren't saying I mean some of them said.

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You know, I had a couple who said, when it's

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a good time to have social media or a phone.

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I had one of my friend's daughters say to me,

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can you convince mum to let me have you know,

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Instagram or whatever.

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Because all my friends have. Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah, so I've had that.

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But by and large, the questions are about about friendship

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and navigating that.

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And I think, look.

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It's tough.

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I'm forty six, and it can be tough with friendships,

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let alone when you are you know, ten, eleven and twelve.

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And I think that when you are when you are

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bad age in thirteen and fourteen the great. But I'll

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speak for girls. I don't know as much for the boys.

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But when you're a girl, the great love of your

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life is not some person that you've got to crush

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on down the road. It is often your best friend.

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And that is a rollercoaster at times of a relationship.

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And what I say to parents now is that it

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is in twenty nineteen, it is not bad grades which

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are going to derail you right now. In the eighties,

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when I was at high school in Brisbane, if you

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got if you bombed out at school, you repeat it,

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you know, or you repeated you twelve or you you know,

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went to some other study college to improve your marks.

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In twenty nineteen, there are a zillion pathways right because

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because high school doesn't work for a whole heap of kids,

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for a whole heap of reasons, of stuff that's going

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on in their life or whatever, and so things can

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go pair shaped and there are now so many ways

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that you can It might take you a bit longer,

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but you can find a way to still get back

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to what you want to do and improve your marks.

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I don't think in twenty nineteen it is we need

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to be obsessing so much about grades, and it is

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getting into bad friendships and relationships which derails kids. That's

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what I see. I think when and the damage that

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can be done to how you feel as a human

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being by the stuff that is said to you or

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done to you when you're a teenager can last a lifetime.

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Grades can be fixed. And I'm not saying you know,

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I say to students when I say this, Tom, don't

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go home and go.

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Begger's birds said, grades don't better.

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You know, that's not what I'm saying, because the reason

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you want to do well at the end of your

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twelve so you've got options. Yes, right, that's what you want.

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You want options, but it's not going to be the

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bill and end all. If you don't get the grade

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that you want to get. There are aw but it's

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that friendship now. And I think you know, our kids,

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they're more sophisticated. Are we seeing a lot more kindness?

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But I think it can be a bit brutal out

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there for our kids.

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I think so too. And well, I mean, we know

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for a fact there's research that says that increased social

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media use is linked to anxiety and depression, especially in

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young people. And what we see even in the adult

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world is this kind of empathy deficit when we're all

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behind our screens when you don't have a real person

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in front of you, Like, is the increased communication via

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technology eroding our capacity I guess to have those real

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personal connections and kindness.

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I think so. And I think that.

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I mean, there is some research that I think I

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read that even when you are holding a device, that

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your empathy rate drops. Yes, it does, purely because distraction.

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You're not as tuned into what the person in front

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of you is feeling. I mean, somebody wants said to me,

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the moment you divorce opinion from identity, there's a problem.

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And of course that's exactly what we have handed to kids.

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I mean, I can't.

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Tell you the number of teenage girls that I know who,

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despite knowing better, have signed up on Instagram to all

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kinds of accounts where they get rated now, you know,

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because they are allured in by this idea of I'll

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tell you if you're hot, right, that's what and that

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is the message that shudder, yeah right. So and these

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are twelve and thirteen year old girls. And then if

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your child does do something wrong or inappropriate, which, of course,

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when you know, I say to kids, your job description

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when you're a kid is to screw up, like, of

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course you are.

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Of course you're going to make bad judgment calls. That's

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how it goes.

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And we're handing them all this technology which has the

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ability to blow up their own lives, the lives of

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other people. I've got friends, you know, my friends in

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their foodies are making appalling judgment calls as if a

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thirteen year old isn't going to do something horrendous using

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social media. And so then I think that there's all

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this judgment on the parents as well, of like, oh well,

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I can't.

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Believe your child did that. So it's really it's isolating.

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So I think we were all these parents no guidance,

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completely panic, don't know who to talk to without being

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judged by the other moms at.

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The school gate.

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So I think it's really tricky, and so I think

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that we need to you know, if we want our

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kids to be kind, we need to model that. We

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want our kids to spend less time on their devices

249
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and have better boundaries in place, We need to model that.

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And school parents, moms in particular, need to have each

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other's back, and we have to accept the fact that

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our kids are going to screw up. It's a given yes, right,

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and so take that kind of shame away from it

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of you know, what did your kid do? And it's

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it's not about the kids growing up, it's about the

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parents' response and how may handle it.

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I agree, That's what I think.

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And going back to that friendship thing, I've had the

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experience where, for example, if my daughter is having issues

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with a friend at school, and I'm thinking of when

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she was probably younger, yeah, like I see my role

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as being supportive of her and also being an advocate

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for her. But sometimes if there's a real issue, like

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if another child has treated your child badly, for example, yes,

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we need to teach them the skills to manage their

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friendships and to stand up for themselves and all of

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that kind of stuff. But we as adults need to

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be able to have conversations with other parents and not

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feel like, you know, my am I if people going

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to think that I'm acting like my child's a precious snowflake,

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or am I going to do they think that I'm

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attacking their child? You know. And I've been in the

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situation where I've had to talk to other parents and say,

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this is what happened at school all today and I

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know I'm only hearing one side of it, but I wanted,

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you know, to make you aware. And I know other

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friends of mine have had those conversations and they've been

278
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really harshly treated by the other parents. I've been fortunate that,

279
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you know, my friends, my parent friends have been really

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happy to know that and have used that to find

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out what's going on with their own child, and it's

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been really positive. But I think even you know, when

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you talk about nobody gives us the skills to manage

284
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friendships or have those conversations, like even as adults, sometimes

285
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we struggle with that.

286
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Oh one hundred percent. And look, it's really interesting.

287
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I'm wondering now whether I get more emails now from

288
00:14:44.639 --> 00:14:48.720
school moms than I do from kids in terms of

289
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wanting to just vent or speak to somebody about you know,

290
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some of them sound quite traumatized about the fact that

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something's happened with their child, and then they they have

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then been ostracized by a parent group, or they have

293
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tried to talk to other parents and the other parents

294
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have kind of not believed it, shut them down, given

295
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them the silent treatment, and just kind of blocked them.

296
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And I think it's really hard.

297
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And I have said to my daughters, the moms of

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my daughter's close friends at.

299
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School, that I want to hear it.

300
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Yes, so if my daughter is behaving badly, or my

301
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boys too much younger. But if my daughter is behaving badly,

302
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if she's doing whatever, I want to be told about

303
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it so I can work through it with her, you know,

304
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and work out what's going on. So I'm not someone

305
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who doesn't want to hear stuff. I want to hear stuff.

306
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I want to hear stuff because that's the only way.

307
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If I'm not all made aware of stuff, I can't

308
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work through it with her.

309
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And they're the same.

310
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So but it's hard because for some that's okay if

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you happen to get on with the parents of.

312
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Your child's friends.

313
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But you know, you don't know, you don't always, you

314
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don't always, and it's these holes.

315
00:16:03.679 --> 00:16:07.639
It's so tricky. It's the whole thing is really hard.

316
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Some In one particular situation, I had to have this

317
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tough conversation and it actually when the mum came back

318
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to me, she was obviously really happy to know what

319
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was going on, but then she also shared with me, look,

320
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she's having a tough time because we've got we're having

321
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marriage issues, like there's problems at home, and that then

322
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gave me the perspective to be able to help my

323
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daughter to support her friend. So there's so much benefit

324
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to be gained from being non defensive, condication and opening up.

325
00:16:40.879 --> 00:16:43.720
Yeah, exactly, And so I think I'm a big believer

326
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in that. And so I think it is our jobs

327
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to our job to advocate for our children, and I

328
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think as much as possible, you know, it's great to

329
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sort of give them a bit of guidance to sort

330
00:16:52.919 --> 00:16:56.600
stuff out by themselves, but if they can't or something continuing,

331
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we have to step up.

332
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And if that means sometime to.

333
00:17:00.200 --> 00:17:03.200
You either talk to a teacher or talk to other parents,

334
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I mean, you make that call, but you need to

335
00:17:05.920 --> 00:17:08.079
do that because these are our kids, and I just

336
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think we don't want to see anything spiral out of control.

337
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And the one thing that I always say to my

338
00:17:15.160 --> 00:17:17.880
daughter is we will make a plan together. You know

339
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that if she tells me stuff that then I'm not

340
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gonna she doesn't have to worry that I'm going to suddenly.

341
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Go right, that's it.

342
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I'm bringing up these people. And she's like, don't do it.

343
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You know, so I'll say to her, let's work out

344
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a plan of how we should handle this and what

345
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you're comfortable with, and you know what's going to work,

346
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because you know she's had her own issues.

347
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I mean, it's it's tricky.

348
00:17:40.400 --> 00:17:44.839
Some of the stuff that I see happening in with

349
00:17:45.039 --> 00:17:50.920
older or even younger primary school girls is brutal. It's brutal,

350
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you know, And I think, I mean, obviously, we want

351
00:17:54.279 --> 00:17:57.759
to make our kids resilient, and we want them to

352
00:17:57.839 --> 00:18:00.839
develop that grit and we want them you know, I

353
00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:03.279
said to my daughter.

354
00:18:04.720 --> 00:18:07.759
School, like life, there are people who are jerks.

355
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There are jerks everywhere in life, and you have to

356
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learn how to navigate them. And I said, at different

357
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times through primary school or high school, people are going

358
00:18:14.920 --> 00:18:18.720
to say you've got stupid hair, or your ears are weird,

359
00:18:18.880 --> 00:18:22.000
or I hate your mum's car. And so I said,

360
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rather than fall to pieces in those moments, you need

361
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to find a way. You've got to find a way

362
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in life to navigate around those people. So those people

363
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in life who are jerks that wouldn't necessarily classomers bullying,

364
00:18:34.920 --> 00:18:38.480
those people who are just mean, mean, right, and they

365
00:18:38.519 --> 00:18:40.079
are everywhere in the world.

366
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They just are.

367
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I wish it wasn't true, but the fact is that

368
00:18:42.720 --> 00:18:45.799
they are, and so we have to equip our kids,

369
00:18:45.880 --> 00:18:49.119
I think with learning how to navigate around those people.

370
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I think what is much tougher is when the mean

371
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and cruel behavior is coming from within a friendship group.

372
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And that happens time and time and time again where

373
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and I will just go with girls for the moment.

374
00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:06.039
Girls are so desperate to be part of a group.

375
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They are willing to be treated badly in order to

376
00:19:08.440 --> 00:19:11.599
still be in it, you know, And when you think

377
00:19:11.640 --> 00:19:14.680
about that, it's crazy, you know. And I talked to

378
00:19:14.680 --> 00:19:16.000
them about the fact that you need to have high

379
00:19:16.039 --> 00:19:18.440
standards for yourself, but they are so desperate for that

380
00:19:18.599 --> 00:19:23.559
sense of belonging that they're willing to be humiliated within

381
00:19:23.599 --> 00:19:26.680
that group and treated badly just to be part of it.

382
00:19:26.680 --> 00:19:28.279
It's heartbreaking. It is heartbreaking.

383
00:19:28.319 --> 00:19:30.319
So I think that you know, you can say to yourself, oh, well,

384
00:19:30.319 --> 00:19:34.119
this person who said an awful comment to me today,

385
00:19:34.319 --> 00:19:36.440
all everyone knows that they're mean, and you can brush

386
00:19:36.480 --> 00:19:39.440
it off. But I think when the cruel behavior is

387
00:19:39.559 --> 00:19:45.920
coming from within your own group of friends, that's really tough.

388
00:19:46.359 --> 00:19:50.839
And so that comes back to me I guess talking

389
00:19:51.039 --> 00:19:53.799
to kids about identifying what a good friendship is in

390
00:19:53.799 --> 00:19:56.319
the first place. Is a good friendship look and feel

391
00:19:56.400 --> 00:19:59.519
like you know, and who's part of your tribe you know?

392
00:19:59.599 --> 00:20:02.799
And if you if your closest friends at school are

393
00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:07.240
routinely putting you down, humiliating you, leaving you out, that.

394
00:20:07.319 --> 00:20:09.640
Is not friendship. That is not a friendship.

395
00:20:10.200 --> 00:20:11.680
And so you've got to sort of think about is

396
00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:15.920
this what I want for myself and learning how to

397
00:20:16.079 --> 00:20:17.960
remove yourself from those situations.

398
00:20:21.480 --> 00:20:25.680
A lot of this comes back to having that relationship

399
00:20:25.680 --> 00:20:28.079
with your child. We as parents all want to have

400
00:20:28.119 --> 00:20:31.960
that relationship with our child where they are comfortable enough

401
00:20:31.960 --> 00:20:36.839
to share with us and they're not fearful. So that

402
00:20:37.319 --> 00:20:39.880
setting that up, yeah, you know, we're talking about tweens

403
00:20:39.920 --> 00:20:43.480
here and teens. Yeah, setting that up starts much earlier

404
00:20:43.480 --> 00:20:44.440
than that. Yeah.

405
00:20:44.480 --> 00:20:47.880
Well, I sort of say to parents that if you

406
00:20:47.960 --> 00:20:50.720
want to have a great relationship with your teenager, it

407
00:20:50.759 --> 00:20:53.640
starts when they're in primary school. You don't start working

408
00:20:53.680 --> 00:20:57.279
on having a great relationship with your fourteen year old

409
00:20:57.319 --> 00:20:59.519
when they're fourteen. Necessarily, I think you've got to put

410
00:20:59.559 --> 00:21:02.920
the ground lay that foundation really early, really.

411
00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:06.000
Early, And so I think, you know, it's about connection.

412
00:21:06.319 --> 00:21:09.759
And I read somewhere the other day that we are

413
00:21:09.799 --> 00:21:13.160
the generation of parents, or there's no generation before us

414
00:21:13.279 --> 00:21:18.920
who have spent so much time in person, face to

415
00:21:18.920 --> 00:21:21.440
face with our children, more than any other Like I'd

416
00:21:21.440 --> 00:21:23.079
get home from school in the eighties and I was

417
00:21:23.079 --> 00:21:24.680
out the door to a friend's house, or down the

418
00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:28.160
road or riding my bike. We are with our children

419
00:21:28.960 --> 00:21:33.519
more than any other generation. But we're also the most distracted, right,

420
00:21:33.559 --> 00:21:36.160
And so somewhere we've got to find a better middle ground,

421
00:21:36.680 --> 00:21:38.960
because I think we're all exhausted because we're expected to

422
00:21:39.079 --> 00:21:42.160
We are expected to be with our children and watching

423
00:21:42.200 --> 00:21:44.200
them all of the time. Like if I sent my

424
00:21:44.319 --> 00:21:47.119
kids now down the road to the massive park at

425
00:21:47.119 --> 00:21:49.519
the end of our road, for sure there'd be a

426
00:21:49.559 --> 00:21:52.839
parent going, well, where's your mum? Yes, you know, because

427
00:21:52.880 --> 00:21:55.240
we can't win, can we like where's your mum? Why

428
00:21:55.279 --> 00:21:57.200
isn't there an adult here looking after you guys?

429
00:21:58.119 --> 00:21:58.319
Right?

430
00:21:58.559 --> 00:22:00.640
Yeah, So then I have to be with them all

431
00:22:00.680 --> 00:22:03.319
the time. So then I'm like, God, I'm with them

432
00:22:03.319 --> 00:22:06.359
all the right. So then we're all addicted to our friend,

433
00:22:06.359 --> 00:22:09.599
our phones, rights were on our phone, so we're distracted

434
00:22:10.119 --> 00:22:13.079
so I think a lot of it is about connection

435
00:22:13.319 --> 00:22:16.079
and giving our kids our time and we don't have

436
00:22:16.160 --> 00:22:19.880
to be stirring at our children all of the time.

437
00:22:20.720 --> 00:22:22.240
Of course you're allowed to be on your phone, but

438
00:22:22.279 --> 00:22:25.359
it's finding that middle ground and putting that work in.

439
00:22:25.480 --> 00:22:26.000
One of the.

440
00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:30.440
Things that so in the course that I do with parents,

441
00:22:30.759 --> 00:22:33.880
it's the lighthouse plan. Is one of the most popular

442
00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:37.839
tips I give is the journal is starting up a

443
00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:42.119
mother daughter or a mother son or whatever it is journal,

444
00:22:42.319 --> 00:22:44.799
so that I mean, I remember, I remember when I

445
00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:48.200
was twelve, thirteen, fourteen, there were things that I desperately

446
00:22:48.240 --> 00:22:50.000
wanted to ask my mum, will say to my mum,

447
00:22:50.079 --> 00:22:52.279
but just did not want to say it to her face,

448
00:22:52.839 --> 00:22:55.119
you know. So sometimes I'd say through the bathroom door

449
00:22:55.160 --> 00:22:57.519
when she was in the bathroom, or you know, when

450
00:22:57.519 --> 00:22:59.839
she's driving, but I just didn't want to make eyeicon

451
00:23:00.279 --> 00:23:03.240
with her. And the idea of this journal is that

452
00:23:03.359 --> 00:23:06.200
you set up a journal between you and your child.

453
00:23:07.039 --> 00:23:09.839
And the rule is that if it appears on your

454
00:23:09.880 --> 00:23:14.039
bedside table, it means they've written something to you that

455
00:23:14.119 --> 00:23:17.480
they wanted to ask you or discuss, and then you

456
00:23:17.519 --> 00:23:19.759
can write back and that.

457
00:23:19.799 --> 00:23:22.440
It's not what it's like fight club.

458
00:23:22.599 --> 00:23:24.960
What is written in the journal stays in the journal,

459
00:23:25.519 --> 00:23:28.200
and that you don't discuss it in person, you know.

460
00:23:28.279 --> 00:23:30.799
And it's just another tool to give parents as a

461
00:23:30.839 --> 00:23:36.000
way of I guess, communicating and connecting with their kids.

462
00:23:36.440 --> 00:23:38.720
So I think it's little things.

463
00:23:38.759 --> 00:23:41.599
It's I think what we need as parents is a toolbox, yes,

464
00:23:42.319 --> 00:23:44.119
of different things, because different things are going to work

465
00:23:44.119 --> 00:23:46.079
well for different kids and different families.

466
00:23:46.440 --> 00:23:47.880
And I think we just need a.

467
00:23:47.920 --> 00:23:52.559
Better, bigger toolbox with ideas of how to connect with

468
00:23:52.680 --> 00:23:55.680
our kids and have those lines of communications and we've

469
00:23:55.680 --> 00:23:58.200
got a strong bond so that when they are thirteen

470
00:23:58.279 --> 00:24:02.799
or fourteen and they got something that's a much bigger concern,

471
00:24:03.839 --> 00:24:06.680
they've got something that's a much bigger worry, more furious

472
00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:08.680
worry that they need to tell us about, they're going

473
00:24:08.680 --> 00:24:10.440
to still feel that they can come to us.

474
00:24:10.519 --> 00:24:14.839
Yeah. I love the journal idea. I saw that on

475
00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:17.599
your I think you did a Facebook post just recently

476
00:24:17.680 --> 00:24:20.519
about that, and I immediately dug out a brand new

477
00:24:20.599 --> 00:24:22.799
journal that I had at home and went and talked

478
00:24:22.799 --> 00:24:24.519
to my daughter about it, and she loved it as well,

479
00:24:24.799 --> 00:24:29.400
because from as early as she was able to, you know,

480
00:24:29.480 --> 00:24:32.799
read and write. Her preferred method of communication with me

481
00:24:32.839 --> 00:24:34.599
when she's had something to talk to me about has

482
00:24:34.640 --> 00:24:37.839
been in writing. And she would write a little note

483
00:24:37.880 --> 00:24:40.640
on a piece of paper. From when she was seven,

484
00:24:41.519 --> 00:24:43.599
seven eight, and she would write a little note on

485
00:24:43.599 --> 00:24:45.319
a piece of paper. It was usually if there was

486
00:24:45.640 --> 00:24:48.119
something that she was upset about that I'd been a

487
00:24:48.119 --> 00:24:50.839
bit harsh, or you know, she was upset with me,

488
00:24:51.160 --> 00:24:53.880
or if there was something she really wanted. And in

489
00:24:53.920 --> 00:24:56.440
grade three they do persuasive writing. So she started writing

490
00:24:56.440 --> 00:25:00.839
me this persuasive It was awesome. It's really making a

491
00:25:00.880 --> 00:25:05.000
solid case. And she would write it and fold it

492
00:25:05.000 --> 00:25:06.559
and she'd put it somewhere and she would let me

493
00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:09.880
know that it was there for me. I love that. Yeah,

494
00:25:09.920 --> 00:25:13.240
And so she she just did that intuitively herself. And

495
00:25:13.359 --> 00:25:17.039
so when I saw your idea about the journal, I thought,

496
00:25:17.039 --> 00:25:19.759
that's perfect. So far, it doesn't have anything in it

497
00:25:19.759 --> 00:25:21.799
because it was only a week ago or something, but

498
00:25:21.839 --> 00:25:25.000
it's beside her bed, it's there for her. And the

499
00:25:25.039 --> 00:25:27.000
other thing that I love about that is that then

500
00:25:27.160 --> 00:25:30.480
it's bound and its documented almost docum. I love their journal,

501
00:25:30.559 --> 00:25:34.920
their journey through their childhood, and I love that too.

502
00:25:34.960 --> 00:25:35.440
And I loved it.

503
00:25:35.480 --> 00:25:39.519
Then they have our handwriting. Yeah, just little things of

504
00:25:39.640 --> 00:25:42.319
our advice to them. I think it's really lovely. Look,

505
00:25:42.400 --> 00:25:45.799
my daughter had hers for a year. I think I

506
00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:48.519
gave it to when she was about eight, and then

507
00:25:48.599 --> 00:25:50.279
the first time I saw it turn up.

508
00:25:50.200 --> 00:25:52.839
I was like, oh my god, there's that journal. What's

509
00:25:52.880 --> 00:25:53.279
in there?

510
00:25:54.039 --> 00:25:54.200
You know?

511
00:25:54.240 --> 00:25:56.759
And then you think, why didn't you just come and

512
00:25:56.799 --> 00:25:58.559
speak to me? But then you open it up and

513
00:25:59.000 --> 00:26:03.440
it's just terrific. It's just terrific as another tool to use,

514
00:26:03.799 --> 00:26:06.279
And that's that's what I think we need. I just

515
00:26:06.279 --> 00:26:08.279
think we need lots of different tools to sort of

516
00:26:08.319 --> 00:26:11.519
open up the lines of communication and so that they know.

517
00:26:12.200 --> 00:26:15.640
We want to be their lighthouse, don't we. We want

518
00:26:15.680 --> 00:26:18.599
to be their safe space that they can come to

519
00:26:19.240 --> 00:26:21.039
and know that they can tell us stuff and work,

520
00:26:21.200 --> 00:26:23.599
because I look, don't we all we want them to

521
00:26:23.599 --> 00:26:26.839
come to us rather than for sure, you know, school

522
00:26:26.839 --> 00:26:31.720
friends for sure, who are telling them probably really dodgy information.

523
00:26:33.160 --> 00:26:36.119
But we have to also understand that sitting down and

524
00:26:36.119 --> 00:26:39.240
having a conversation is probably not always going to get

525
00:26:39.359 --> 00:26:42.559
us that communication saying tell me, you know, is there

526
00:26:42.559 --> 00:26:43.599
anything on your mind at.

527
00:26:43.480 --> 00:26:46.079
The moment, So giving them other ways to be able

528
00:26:46.119 --> 00:26:49.680
to share safe ways that they can communicate.

529
00:26:49.799 --> 00:26:52.359
It's really important, and I think we forget cassette, you know,

530
00:26:52.480 --> 00:26:55.319
the typical thing. And for some kids they do they

531
00:26:55.319 --> 00:26:57.440
get in the car after school and just go and

532
00:26:57.519 --> 00:27:01.200
say everything that's happened. But I know, you know a

533
00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:03.720
few years when I worked in offices and whatever, and

534
00:27:03.960 --> 00:27:06.359
you'd finish your day and then someone, you know, you

535
00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:08.000
come home and some would say, how's your day, and

536
00:27:08.039 --> 00:27:11.240
you're so tired you just like I just can't even articulate,

537
00:27:11.279 --> 00:27:13.640
you know, just like it was fine, because it's just

538
00:27:14.160 --> 00:27:16.000
I don't even want you know, I've just left. Don't

539
00:27:16.000 --> 00:27:19.079
make me go back there and now recount everything. So

540
00:27:19.119 --> 00:27:21.799
I think this is why as well, that quite often

541
00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:25.839
it's when I'm tucking my daughter into bed and the

542
00:27:25.920 --> 00:27:29.680
lights are off that then she all the stories come

543
00:27:29.720 --> 00:27:31.880
out as well of what happened at school because it's

544
00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:34.519
dark again, she doesn't have necessarily have to make eye

545
00:27:34.519 --> 00:27:37.680
contact with me. Enough time has passed since she got

546
00:27:37.720 --> 00:27:41.599
home that she's kind of processing sort of what went

547
00:27:41.680 --> 00:27:43.799
down in whatever English.

548
00:27:43.440 --> 00:27:44.480
Or pee or music.

549
00:27:44.799 --> 00:27:47.519
So I think that's another thing is that don't expect

550
00:27:48.079 --> 00:27:49.720
as soon as kids get if you happen to be

551
00:27:49.759 --> 00:27:51.519
home as soon as your kids get home and they

552
00:27:51.559 --> 00:27:52.920
go It was fine at.

553
00:27:52.839 --> 00:27:55.440
School because because think of what it's like for us.

554
00:27:55.480 --> 00:27:56.519
Sometimes you just don't want to.

555
00:27:56.640 --> 00:27:59.759
Sometimes I've just left work, I don't want to now

556
00:27:59.799 --> 00:28:02.079
and necessarily be going back into it. I just want

557
00:28:02.079 --> 00:28:05.319
some breathing spaces totally, I open up. So I think

558
00:28:05.319 --> 00:28:06.720
we've got to sort of keep all of that in

559
00:28:06.759 --> 00:28:07.759
mind as well, and if.

560
00:28:07.680 --> 00:28:10.119
We you know, one thing that comes up for me

561
00:28:10.319 --> 00:28:13.759
often what I hear from people as a psychologist also

562
00:28:13.960 --> 00:28:15.559
is like I can't get to sleep at night because

563
00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:17.119
as soon as I lay down in bed and the

564
00:28:17.200 --> 00:28:19.599
lights are at, all of the day's issues are at

565
00:28:19.599 --> 00:28:22.480
the top of my mind. And yes, it's happening for adults,

566
00:28:22.519 --> 00:28:25.160
of course, it's happening for kids, yes as well. Like

567
00:28:25.240 --> 00:28:28.640
suddenly in the quiet space without the distraction and there's

568
00:28:28.640 --> 00:28:30.759
no more TV and dinner and homework and all the

569
00:28:30.759 --> 00:28:32.359
rest of it, and it's just me and my thoughts.

570
00:28:32.599 --> 00:28:35.799
Yes than everything that's true service.

571
00:28:35.720 --> 00:28:38.839
Yes, So I think that's another thing is we're all busy.

572
00:28:39.000 --> 00:28:40.599
You know a lot of people have got you know,

573
00:28:40.640 --> 00:28:41.839
you've got kids, You've also.

574
00:28:41.599 --> 00:28:42.160
Got a job.

575
00:28:43.240 --> 00:28:45.880
So I'm not saying we all need to just be obsessively,

576
00:28:46.359 --> 00:28:49.720
you know, open and available all of the time, sort

577
00:28:49.720 --> 00:28:52.680
of watching our children with nothing of our own, but

578
00:28:52.799 --> 00:28:55.759
I think we have to try and do a better

579
00:28:55.880 --> 00:29:00.559
job of making ourselves emotionally of our lie to our

580
00:29:00.640 --> 00:29:04.519
kids and in whatever way that looks like. And so

581
00:29:04.599 --> 00:29:08.160
that means things like, okay, so at nighttime when you

582
00:29:08.240 --> 00:29:10.759
go into their room to say good night and whatever,

583
00:29:10.960 --> 00:29:13.960
don't take your phone with you. But you know, little

584
00:29:13.960 --> 00:29:16.279
things like that of like maybe don't take your phone

585
00:29:16.279 --> 00:29:20.240
in with you. You know, because when you're talking to somebody

586
00:29:20.240 --> 00:29:22.680
and they have a phone in their hand, you automatically

587
00:29:22.680 --> 00:29:25.000
feel like you're not their priority because the moment that

588
00:29:25.039 --> 00:29:27.160
phone beeps, they're going to be looking at it. So

589
00:29:27.759 --> 00:29:29.960
put your phone down. Or when your child wants to

590
00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:32.440
open up to you, put your phone down and give

591
00:29:32.480 --> 00:29:34.720
your child your full attention.

592
00:29:35.240 --> 00:29:36.359
And those little.

593
00:29:36.079 --> 00:29:39.359
Things, I mean they sound it's not you know, it's

594
00:29:39.400 --> 00:29:43.359
not rocket science, is it. But somewhere along the line

595
00:29:43.400 --> 00:29:46.720
we have forgotten. And it's because, of course, all of

596
00:29:46.759 --> 00:29:50.759
these devices are highly addictive. Yes, they are highly highly addictive,

597
00:29:50.799 --> 00:29:54.880
and the phone companies have zero and social media platforms

598
00:29:55.079 --> 00:29:58.039
have zero motivation for wanting us to ever put our

599
00:29:58.119 --> 00:29:59.960
phones down. They do not want us to do that.

600
00:30:00.319 --> 00:30:02.960
They want us to always be looking and always be

601
00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:05.920
scrolling because our eyeballs or what is for sale. They

602
00:30:05.960 --> 00:30:09.720
are selling our eyeballs, right, So they're not motivated to

603
00:30:09.839 --> 00:30:13.480
help us. So we have got to start thinking refusing

604
00:30:13.480 --> 00:30:16.759
to be manipulated and just putting the phones down and

605
00:30:16.799 --> 00:30:20.920
making sure we are giving our kids attention and focus

606
00:30:21.079 --> 00:30:22.599
and just on that.

607
00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:24.960
It's not even having a phone in your hand that

608
00:30:25.039 --> 00:30:29.079
reduces trust and intimacy and report. It's just having a

609
00:30:29.119 --> 00:30:31.799
phone on the table. If you're having a conversation or

610
00:30:31.839 --> 00:30:34.000
a coffee with a friend, if there's a phone on.

611
00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:36.319
The table, there you go, that's enough.

612
00:30:36.519 --> 00:30:39.000
Yep. They have to be out of sight. Otherwise we

613
00:30:39.119 --> 00:30:43.119
know subconsciously, we know that that potentially you're gone as

614
00:30:43.160 --> 00:30:47.000
soon as that thing, Yes makes it because it's complete fomo.

615
00:30:47.559 --> 00:30:50.160
This is why they say, students, if you try and

616
00:30:50.240 --> 00:30:53.519
study with your phone, even if it's switched off in

617
00:30:53.640 --> 00:30:56.519
your bedroom, just being able to see it out of

618
00:30:56.519 --> 00:30:59.119
the corner of your eye is what am I missing

619
00:30:59.119 --> 00:31:02.720
out on? That phone represents everything that's going on in

620
00:31:02.759 --> 00:31:04.440
the outside world. What am I missing out on and

621
00:31:04.440 --> 00:31:06.839
you study will take you longer. So we need to

622
00:31:06.880 --> 00:31:13.839
have that separation of our social media habits with.

623
00:31:15.480 --> 00:31:18.640
Well our studies, certainly for students, but also with our relationships.

624
00:31:18.640 --> 00:31:20.960
It's kind of, you know, there's the blur. There's too

625
00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:22.519
much of a blur happening, and I think we need

626
00:31:22.559 --> 00:31:25.920
to take a bit of control back, I guess is

627
00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:28.640
what i'd say, because you know, I tend to say

628
00:31:28.680 --> 00:31:33.400
to parents, you've got to remember that smartphones and social

629
00:31:33.480 --> 00:31:38.119
media are like white ants, like termites, eating into the

630
00:31:38.160 --> 00:31:41.119
stuff that's really important. So things like family rituals and

631
00:31:41.119 --> 00:31:44.759
traditions where we're all going out for Grandma's birthday breakfast,

632
00:31:44.839 --> 00:31:47.720
or we're all doing Sunday we always have a Sunday

633
00:31:47.799 --> 00:31:51.319
roast or whatever the moment. You continually let phones into

634
00:31:51.400 --> 00:31:56.319
those moments, it just eats away at these great family pillars.

635
00:31:56.519 --> 00:31:56.759
I think.

636
00:31:56.799 --> 00:31:59.640
So we need to be better with the boundaries. I

637
00:31:59.640 --> 00:32:02.440
think when to put put the devices down.

638
00:32:02.599 --> 00:32:06.279
I completely agree, and I know and that has to

639
00:32:06.319 --> 00:32:09.599
start with us as adults. I think I agree because

640
00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:11.119
where the word where is bad?

641
00:32:11.720 --> 00:32:12.880
I totally agree with you.

642
00:32:12.920 --> 00:32:16.319
We've got to you know, we're setting the tone with everything.

643
00:32:16.640 --> 00:32:19.640
We're setting the tone with what good friendship looks like.

644
00:32:19.680 --> 00:32:24.519
We're setting the tone with body image, body image, resilience, everything.

645
00:32:24.640 --> 00:32:28.720
So you know, you can lecture kids and put them

646
00:32:28.720 --> 00:32:31.759
in front of documentaries and whatever else, but whatever we're

647
00:32:31.839 --> 00:32:35.119
doing is setting the tone of how our kids are

648
00:32:35.160 --> 00:32:38.519
going to think that I think you know what's behavior.

649
00:32:38.279 --> 00:32:42.880
Yes, totally, totally. So you know that great.

650
00:32:44.519 --> 00:32:45.240
Love parenting.

651
00:32:45.759 --> 00:32:51.440
That's awesome, so easy, I.

652
00:32:49.839 --> 00:32:50.640
Got it nailed.

653
00:32:50.920 --> 00:32:52.759
I want to go back to the friendship thing just

654
00:32:52.880 --> 00:32:57.359
briefly and mention that there's you know, bullying is rife.

655
00:32:57.519 --> 00:33:00.920
It's a parent's worst night man. Actually, you know, the

656
00:33:01.279 --> 00:33:03.640
kids that are taking their own lives as a result

657
00:33:03.680 --> 00:33:07.599
of bullying, like it sends shivers up and down our spine.

658
00:33:08.079 --> 00:33:12.759
There is research that having a best friend is a buffer, yes,

659
00:33:12.880 --> 00:33:16.559
against bullying. And I have had parents. I don't do

660
00:33:16.599 --> 00:33:18.920
a lot of counseling work with kids, but I have

661
00:33:19.200 --> 00:33:23.039
certainly had adolescent and child clients in the past, and

662
00:33:23.079 --> 00:33:26.559
I've had sometimes parents say to me, I think she's

663
00:33:26.680 --> 00:33:29.839
just too fixated on this one friend, like she's just

664
00:33:29.920 --> 00:33:32.160
I feel like she needs to broaden her friendship circle

665
00:33:32.200 --> 00:33:34.759
because she's just really stuck on this one best friend,

666
00:33:35.480 --> 00:33:38.079
and I've had to say to parents, yes, it's great

667
00:33:38.119 --> 00:33:42.079
to have a circle of friends, but it's really really

668
00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:48.440
beneficial to have a best friend, yes, and so encourage

669
00:33:48.519 --> 00:33:50.680
that not to be exclusion of other friendship.

670
00:33:50.720 --> 00:33:51.680
No, no, no, that's right.

671
00:33:51.759 --> 00:33:54.559
And I think you know, whether you have a tribe

672
00:33:54.960 --> 00:33:59.720
at school of for mates and you know you all

673
00:33:59.720 --> 00:34:01.519
adore each other, or whether you've got one all you

674
00:34:01.559 --> 00:34:04.240
need is one, you know, one person who's got your back.

675
00:34:05.319 --> 00:34:07.960
That's the key, who's got your back, that's it. In fact,

676
00:34:07.960 --> 00:34:10.079
my daughter and her very best friend from primary school

677
00:34:10.079 --> 00:34:12.559
have ended up at different high schools, and that was

678
00:34:12.679 --> 00:34:15.440
kind of devastating at the time, but I think it's

679
00:34:15.480 --> 00:34:18.079
actually turned out to be really positive because they still

680
00:34:18.079 --> 00:34:19.800
see each other all the time on the weekends, but

681
00:34:19.840 --> 00:34:21.800
they've got their separate school stuff going on.

682
00:34:21.840 --> 00:34:22.840
I kind of think it's ideal.

683
00:34:22.880 --> 00:34:25.039
I have to say, yeah, it's been great.

684
00:34:24.880 --> 00:34:28.159
Yeah, because I think it just gives you that person

685
00:34:28.239 --> 00:34:30.159
that you can hang out with on weekends or school

686
00:34:30.159 --> 00:34:33.599
holidays who doesn't know all of them what went you know,

687
00:34:33.639 --> 00:34:35.519
I think we can get really caught in a school bubble,

688
00:34:35.800 --> 00:34:38.559
and I think having a break from that bubble and

689
00:34:38.599 --> 00:34:39.440
hanging out with someone.

690
00:34:39.639 --> 00:34:39.960
I know.

691
00:34:40.119 --> 00:34:42.719
Yes, things can get spread on social leada and kids

692
00:34:42.719 --> 00:34:44.440
can find out anything, but it's not the same as

693
00:34:46.000 --> 00:34:49.039
just you can just feel trapped in a bit claustrophobic,

694
00:34:49.119 --> 00:34:52.079
sometimes with the same people all of the time. I mean,

695
00:34:53.000 --> 00:34:55.960
just let's cut our kids some slack and remember, it's

696
00:34:56.000 --> 00:34:59.920
like being stuck in a country town for years.

697
00:35:00.039 --> 00:35:01.519
They're going to this place.

698
00:35:01.559 --> 00:35:03.880
They're with these people for whatever it is, six seven,

699
00:35:03.960 --> 00:35:07.280
eight hours a day, depending on what they're doing, same people.

700
00:35:07.719 --> 00:35:09.880
You know, they've got some kids there who are jerks

701
00:35:09.920 --> 00:35:11.840
to them, and some of the stuff that goes on

702
00:35:11.920 --> 00:35:14.840
in schools we wouldn't tolerated as adults. We would leave

703
00:35:14.920 --> 00:35:18.360
the job right and go, I can't stand these people.

704
00:35:18.679 --> 00:35:21.719
This is not the culture for me. I'm leaving our kids, don't.

705
00:35:21.719 --> 00:35:23.039
We're like, off you go, you'll be.

706
00:35:23.039 --> 00:35:26.679
Fine, Yeah, don't we And we kind of expect them

707
00:35:26.679 --> 00:35:28.039
to sort of suck it up. They've got none of

708
00:35:28.079 --> 00:35:31.760
the life schools that we have as adults, and so.

709
00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:34.559
There they are every day, seeing the same people.

710
00:35:34.440 --> 00:35:38.360
Trapped in Wandon Valley from like grade seventy, year twelve.

711
00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:39.760
I mean, some of them are there from prep to

712
00:35:39.840 --> 00:35:43.159
year twelve with some schools, and so I think having

713
00:35:43.760 --> 00:35:46.760
you know, and outside people out at the bubble is

714
00:35:46.840 --> 00:35:49.760
always a good thing to kind of hang out, you know,

715
00:35:50.599 --> 00:35:53.519
different opinions, different ideas. They didn't see what happened in

716
00:35:53.559 --> 00:35:55.519
English when you didn't get a great mark, and you know,

717
00:35:55.559 --> 00:35:57.760
I embarrassed yourself when you're doing your speech or whatever,

718
00:35:58.639 --> 00:36:00.800
you know, and it's just it's like a little mental

719
00:36:00.840 --> 00:36:03.159
health break hanging out with people that aren't in the bubble,

720
00:36:03.960 --> 00:36:06.320
the school bubble. So I think I would always encourage

721
00:36:06.360 --> 00:36:08.920
to try and have those things, and I think it's ideal. Actually,

722
00:36:09.800 --> 00:36:13.519
one of my daughter's closest friends that her mum and

723
00:36:13.559 --> 00:36:15.800
I are very close friends, and they know in a

724
00:36:15.840 --> 00:36:18.039
mother's group together and they've known each other their whole lives.

725
00:36:18.079 --> 00:36:20.000
And my friends said, do I know we should put

726
00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:22.840
the girls in the same high school. I was like, no, no,

727
00:36:22.920 --> 00:36:24.559
we don't want to do that because we want them

728
00:36:24.559 --> 00:36:28.599
to have each other outside of these school worlds. So

729
00:36:28.639 --> 00:36:31.039
they've got each other to kind of vent too. It's

730
00:36:31.079 --> 00:36:35.639
a safe person event too, doesn't know everyone at school.

731
00:36:35.719 --> 00:36:38.840
So I think that's a good idea. Yeah, back, I think.

732
00:36:40.159 --> 00:36:42.519
In the work that I've done with parents, and to

733
00:36:42.559 --> 00:36:44.840
be honest, not so much with this age group. I'm

734
00:36:44.960 --> 00:36:47.840
more just a parent myself as opposed to a psychologist

735
00:36:47.840 --> 00:36:50.079
with this age group. But I did do a lot

736
00:36:50.079 --> 00:36:52.920
of work in private practice with parents of young children

737
00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:56.639
and postnatal depression, that kind of stuff, and so my

738
00:36:56.960 --> 00:37:01.119
expertise was really around that early childhood delopment stuff and

739
00:37:01.239 --> 00:37:02.920
one thing, and I think a lot of that is

740
00:37:02.960 --> 00:37:07.480
also really relevant to this twein goods. So one thing

741
00:37:07.519 --> 00:37:10.199
that I would say to parents at that stage was,

742
00:37:10.480 --> 00:37:12.719
it can be really helpful to understand what's going on

743
00:37:12.800 --> 00:37:17.000
in your child's brain right now, because you're looking at

744
00:37:17.000 --> 00:37:20.800
their behavior and trying to manage their behavior without necessarily

745
00:37:20.840 --> 00:37:23.599
knowing what's driving it. And as soon as you would

746
00:37:23.599 --> 00:37:26.800
explain to people that, for example, between the ages of

747
00:37:26.840 --> 00:37:30.400
two and four, there is an explosion of growth and

748
00:37:30.440 --> 00:37:32.679
development in the limbic system, which of course is the

749
00:37:32.719 --> 00:37:36.159
emotional center of the brain, and suddenly these little children

750
00:37:36.199 --> 00:37:41.039
are overwhelmed with emotions, big feelings they can't handle. They

751
00:37:41.039 --> 00:37:44.039
don't have the words to tell you what they're feeling,

752
00:37:44.159 --> 00:37:47.920
they don't have the capacity the emotional regulation to manage them,

753
00:37:47.960 --> 00:37:51.719
and then they're being punished for it. So really we're

754
00:37:51.920 --> 00:37:56.119
expecting of them. Yes, you know, qualities and skills and

755
00:37:56.639 --> 00:38:00.199
you know stuff that they literally do not possess that

756
00:38:00.280 --> 00:38:03.599
age cognitively, verbally, all of the rest of it emotionally.

757
00:38:04.360 --> 00:38:10.039
So a lot of people attribute teenage behavior and emotions

758
00:38:10.079 --> 00:38:12.360
and outbursts and stuff to hormones. There's a lot of oh,

759
00:38:12.480 --> 00:38:15.719
she's hormonal, or oh all of that, and in fact,

760
00:38:15.719 --> 00:38:18.199
people don't realize that there is also another huge leap

761
00:38:18.239 --> 00:38:22.320
in brain development at this time in their lives, and

762
00:38:22.480 --> 00:38:26.360
a lot of teenage behavior, typical teenage kind of behaviors,

763
00:38:27.039 --> 00:38:30.800
is not driven by hormones. It's driven by brain development.

764
00:38:31.000 --> 00:38:32.039
See that's interesting.

765
00:38:32.480 --> 00:38:35.000
And I think if you're able to then apply that

766
00:38:35.239 --> 00:38:39.760
logic and the science behind it, it can maybe make

767
00:38:39.800 --> 00:38:42.599
you a little bit more compassionate exactly exactly.

768
00:38:42.679 --> 00:38:45.800
And I see the relief on parents. I used to

769
00:38:45.800 --> 00:38:48.119
see the relief on parents' faces, and they'd say, oh,

770
00:38:48.199 --> 00:38:51.280
and they would just suddenly become so much more patient

771
00:38:51.880 --> 00:38:55.159
and tolerant that it would change the way they parented,

772
00:38:55.199 --> 00:38:59.119
It would change the way they disciplined, for example, little kids.

773
00:38:59.440 --> 00:39:02.400
And I think think that parents of tweens and teens

774
00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:05.840
when we're all tearing our hair out because she's you know,

775
00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:09.199
slamming doors, or she's not talking to me, or he's

776
00:39:09.239 --> 00:39:11.920
doing this, or he's in his room grunting or whatever

777
00:39:11.960 --> 00:39:14.559
he's doing. Yeah, Like, if we can understand what's going

778
00:39:14.599 --> 00:39:20.920
on for them cognitively, yes, then it can really help because.

779
00:39:20.639 --> 00:39:21.480
You know what it is, cass.

780
00:39:21.480 --> 00:39:23.559
You're not taking it personally exactly.

781
00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:27.280
In fact, that's a great point because you start going, oh,

782
00:39:27.320 --> 00:39:30.199
actually they're doing this because blah blah blah, not because

783
00:39:30.239 --> 00:39:33.440
they think that I suck as or whatever. I'm not

784
00:39:33.480 --> 00:39:34.079
a ship parent.

785
00:39:34.239 --> 00:39:35.119
Yes, yep.

786
00:39:35.960 --> 00:39:39.880
So, Beck, we've talked about some of the toolkit that

787
00:39:39.920 --> 00:39:44.360
we need to have more effective communication and relationships. I

788
00:39:44.400 --> 00:39:46.719
love the journal. What else have you got for us?

789
00:39:46.719 --> 00:39:50.039
Okay, I've got some good ones. This is one that

790
00:39:50.119 --> 00:39:55.119
I was taught by John O. Nicholas, who founded reachout

791
00:39:55.159 --> 00:39:59.239
dot org dot au, Australia's largest online mental health organization

792
00:39:59.320 --> 00:40:02.599
for young people. So he said to me, when instead

793
00:40:02.599 --> 00:40:04.119
of saying to kids all the time.

794
00:40:04.079 --> 00:40:05.360
How is your day? Are you okay?

795
00:40:05.440 --> 00:40:06.679
How are you feeling about school?

796
00:40:06.840 --> 00:40:07.039
You know?

797
00:40:07.519 --> 00:40:07.679
Yeah?

798
00:40:08.679 --> 00:40:11.320
Yeah, so he said, ask them instead to write it

799
00:40:11.400 --> 00:40:13.559
on a scale of one to ten. So he said,

800
00:40:13.840 --> 00:40:17.239
because kids don't have always have all the words to

801
00:40:17.480 --> 00:40:21.239
articulate their feelings. And this is also true for people

802
00:40:21.239 --> 00:40:24.280
who've gone through trauma or grief, anyone that you're wanting

803
00:40:24.320 --> 00:40:27.039
to check on. Instead of saying how are you, which

804
00:40:27.079 --> 00:40:29.159
is like where do I start? Your brain goes where

805
00:40:29.159 --> 00:40:30.719
do I start? I don't know how to explain to

806
00:40:30.760 --> 00:40:32.239
you if you say to them on a scale of

807
00:40:32.280 --> 00:40:35.360
one to ten, like one being the worst ever, in

808
00:40:35.440 --> 00:40:38.360
ten being fabulous, where are you? So then if your

809
00:40:38.400 --> 00:40:41.920
child says I'm about a six, right, then you can

810
00:40:41.960 --> 00:40:45.320
say to them, okay, so how do we get you

811
00:40:45.480 --> 00:40:45.960
to an eight?

812
00:40:46.039 --> 00:40:46.840
What do we need to do?

813
00:40:47.239 --> 00:40:49.559
And then also if they can give you a number,

814
00:40:49.599 --> 00:40:51.559
it's so easy to be able to say I'm an

815
00:40:51.599 --> 00:40:54.760
eight today or I'm feeling like a four today. Then

816
00:40:54.800 --> 00:40:58.719
as a parent, you'll notice more if the number keeps

817
00:40:58.719 --> 00:40:59.239
going down.

818
00:41:00.320 --> 00:41:00.559
True.

819
00:41:00.760 --> 00:41:04.960
So I think that's a good one. I think trying

820
00:41:05.199 --> 00:41:11.000
to have at least one, you know, dinner maybe at

821
00:41:11.000 --> 00:41:13.400
the table with the kids a week, is a great

822
00:41:13.400 --> 00:41:16.039
way to get a snap shots. I mean, I know

823
00:41:16.079 --> 00:41:18.320
it's hard, and ideally we'd say have dinner every night

824
00:41:18.360 --> 00:41:21.239
together as a family. Let's be realistic about it, realistically

825
00:41:21.280 --> 00:41:24.400
with kids with activities and parents working on it. But

826
00:41:24.480 --> 00:41:28.079
if you can have some kind of a weekly meal,

827
00:41:28.159 --> 00:41:30.360
whether it's a lunch on a Sunday or whatever, you'll

828
00:41:30.360 --> 00:41:33.039
also start to notice if your kids are they not

829
00:41:33.119 --> 00:41:35.599
mentioning some friends that they used to mention all the

830
00:41:35.599 --> 00:41:38.039
time anymore. It just can give you a better snapshot

831
00:41:38.039 --> 00:41:40.519
of being able again to get a picture of where

832
00:41:40.559 --> 00:41:44.599
they are. And another great tip that I think is

833
00:41:44.599 --> 00:41:47.280
the idea of when we're trying to connect with our kids,

834
00:41:47.320 --> 00:41:48.920
and so often with our kids, we're like, come and

835
00:41:48.920 --> 00:41:51.079
do this with me, or you should be doing this,

836
00:41:51.480 --> 00:41:54.039
or you know, I think you'd enjoy this over here.

837
00:41:54.199 --> 00:41:57.440
Like we often pick activities that we like or we

838
00:41:57.480 --> 00:41:58.559
think they should like.

839
00:41:59.079 --> 00:42:00.400
So what I would say is.

840
00:42:00.679 --> 00:42:04.480
Go into your child's world. So if they really love,

841
00:42:06.199 --> 00:42:10.559
even if it's a PlayStation game, or if it's a

842
00:42:10.559 --> 00:42:12.920
certain series of books that they're reading or a TV

843
00:42:13.800 --> 00:42:16.960
series maybe your daughter's in Johanna, Montana, or they're on

844
00:42:17.000 --> 00:42:20.639
Netflix or whatever it is, sit down and watch it

845
00:42:20.679 --> 00:42:23.679
with them, you know, go into their world with them

846
00:42:23.760 --> 00:42:27.039
and experience what they love. And they will, because so

847
00:42:27.079 --> 00:42:30.400
often kids will. If you say to your kids, particularly

848
00:42:30.599 --> 00:42:32.840
particularly tweens. Oh you know, can.

849
00:42:32.760 --> 00:42:34.559
I watch that with you? Their faces will light it.

850
00:42:34.599 --> 00:42:38.880
They love it, they absolutely love it. And so I

851
00:42:38.920 --> 00:42:41.239
think that we need to make more of that effort

852
00:42:41.239 --> 00:42:43.960
of going, you know what, I want to understand what

853
00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:48.400
do you love so much about Katie Perry or Zendea

854
00:42:48.559 --> 00:42:51.239
or whoever, and just go into their world with them.

855
00:42:51.639 --> 00:42:54.079
And again, it's then becomes a thing that you can

856
00:42:54.280 --> 00:42:55.880
you know, you might end up enjoying it. Maybe you

857
00:42:56.159 --> 00:42:58.760
then have a weekly date where you watch a TV

858
00:42:58.800 --> 00:43:00.760
show or you build lego together or whatever it is.

859
00:43:00.800 --> 00:43:03.000
But again, that's another moment that you get to share.

860
00:43:03.239 --> 00:43:06.320
My daughter and I started watching Riverdale together. There you go,

861
00:43:06.360 --> 00:43:08.519
and that was our thing. And she's mad at me

862
00:43:08.519 --> 00:43:11.400
at the moment because season three came out and I

863
00:43:11.519 --> 00:43:13.719
was so busy with the book last year and the

864
00:43:13.760 --> 00:43:15.800
podcast and all of the rest of it that I'm behind.

865
00:43:15.880 --> 00:43:19.079
And she reminds me constantly, Mum, you need to catch up.

866
00:43:19.119 --> 00:43:21.280
I'm five episodes ahead of you exactly.

867
00:43:21.320 --> 00:43:22.760
But then and then it becomes something you get to

868
00:43:22.760 --> 00:43:24.519
talk about. Yeah, you know, you get to.

869
00:43:24.440 --> 00:43:27.840
Discuss what's happened in episodes, or she'll say to you,

870
00:43:27.840 --> 00:43:29.239
you know, this is already you're not gonna believe what's

871
00:43:29.239 --> 00:43:32.920
happened to this character. So whatever it is, I don't know.

872
00:43:32.960 --> 00:43:34.920
I think that's important is that we try and get

873
00:43:34.960 --> 00:43:36.760
in their work, try and remember what it was like

874
00:43:36.920 --> 00:43:38.920
being a tween and a team. Definitely cut them some

875
00:43:39.079 --> 00:43:43.119
slack and meet them where they are. And I think also.

876
00:43:44.400 --> 00:43:48.719
Respecting them as individuals, because I think as parents we

877
00:43:48.880 --> 00:43:51.800
often can tend to assume like we know better, or

878
00:43:52.000 --> 00:43:54.760
we're used to being kind of the boss and the authority,

879
00:43:54.960 --> 00:43:57.559
and as they start developing that sense of their own

880
00:43:57.639 --> 00:44:00.920
identity and opinions and preferences. My daughters twelve, and she

881
00:44:01.079 --> 00:44:03.880
now will not wear a dress, and I see the

882
00:44:03.880 --> 00:44:06.079
most beautiful dresses and I say, you look amazing in that.

883
00:44:06.119 --> 00:44:06.519
Why don't you?

884
00:44:06.840 --> 00:44:07.079
Mum?

885
00:44:07.639 --> 00:44:09.079
I don't want to wear a dress.

886
00:44:09.280 --> 00:44:11.559
Okay, So I have to back off, like that's that's

887
00:44:11.960 --> 00:44:13.639
where she's at, and I'm not going to force her

888
00:44:13.679 --> 00:44:15.199
to wear a dress exactly.

889
00:44:15.480 --> 00:44:16.599
I think that's so true.

890
00:44:16.639 --> 00:44:19.519
It's about sort of respecting who they are and they

891
00:44:19.559 --> 00:44:24.079
are not us, no, you know, And I think that's

892
00:44:24.079 --> 00:44:27.639
something that we all confront at some point, that the

893
00:44:27.679 --> 00:44:30.559
things that we love or the things that we're good

894
00:44:30.559 --> 00:44:34.320
at or whatever. That these kids are their own own people,

895
00:44:34.599 --> 00:44:37.800
and our job is not to mold them in our image.

896
00:44:37.840 --> 00:44:40.239
And you know, where we want them to be the

897
00:44:40.280 --> 00:44:44.280
same as us, is in maybe core values of kindness

898
00:44:44.280 --> 00:44:44.920
and respect.

899
00:44:45.360 --> 00:44:47.000
But everything else.

900
00:44:46.800 --> 00:44:50.480
Is is you know, up for grabs, Like they get

901
00:44:50.519 --> 00:44:52.840
to sort of work out what their interests are and

902
00:44:52.880 --> 00:44:56.000
what the music that they love or movies or you know,

903
00:44:56.559 --> 00:44:59.639
political beliefs or any of that's exactly, and we just

904
00:44:59.719 --> 00:45:02.280
have to kind of help guide them.

905
00:45:02.360 --> 00:45:04.159
But respect it, respect it.

906
00:45:04.559 --> 00:45:09.639
And I would add to that to respecting their privacy totally. Oh,

907
00:45:09.840 --> 00:45:12.199
you know, even coming here today and knowing that we

908
00:45:12.199 --> 00:45:16.400
were discussing this topic and I didn't know what things

909
00:45:16.440 --> 00:45:18.400
we might be discussing, but if there are a few

910
00:45:18.400 --> 00:45:20.440
things I actually checked with her if this comes up,

911
00:45:20.440 --> 00:45:23.400
are you comfortable if I talk about this and gave

912
00:45:23.519 --> 00:45:28.719
her the decision making authority over what could be discussed

913
00:45:28.760 --> 00:45:32.239
about her? And I think that's really important. And I

914
00:45:32.280 --> 00:45:37.119
see parents disrespect their child privacy.

915
00:45:36.800 --> 00:45:39.559
So do I And there yeah, I and I just

916
00:45:39.639 --> 00:45:43.039
sort of think, you know, first of all, we worry

917
00:45:43.079 --> 00:45:45.400
so much about a kid's digital footprint. Well, let me

918
00:45:45.400 --> 00:45:47.880
tell you it's long before a kid gets on mobile phone,

919
00:45:47.880 --> 00:45:51.079
the parents set it up for them. Yes, so there's that,

920
00:45:51.559 --> 00:45:54.599
and most parents have maybe done the right thing. But

921
00:45:54.639 --> 00:45:56.519
I have seen parents over the last ten years who've

922
00:45:56.519 --> 00:46:03.519
posted the most horrifically embarrassing photos of their tweens that

923
00:46:03.559 --> 00:46:05.880
I've just thought, there is no child who's going to

924
00:46:05.960 --> 00:46:10.800
thank you that that is now online online. But also

925
00:46:10.960 --> 00:46:15.719
being really careful with what we share about them, even

926
00:46:15.760 --> 00:46:20.280
in conversation, I agree, and I think that it's interesting.

927
00:46:20.320 --> 00:46:24.400
I was listening I'm friends with the author Madonna King,

928
00:46:24.480 --> 00:46:26.840
and she brought up the book Fathers and Daughters recently,

929
00:46:27.119 --> 00:46:30.400
and she said, one of the reasons girls often like

930
00:46:30.519 --> 00:46:32.760
talking to their dads about their problems, is they not

931
00:46:32.800 --> 00:46:33.639
it doesn't go anywhere.

932
00:46:33.760 --> 00:46:34.800
Yeah, isn't that interesting?

933
00:46:34.840 --> 00:46:36.480
Talk to your mum and it gets work.

934
00:46:37.960 --> 00:46:41.280
Yeah. And I thought, oh, that's so true though, And

935
00:46:41.360 --> 00:46:43.360
again I can see why mums are doing that, because

936
00:46:43.360 --> 00:46:48.159
we're all scramp going help me. But I think that

937
00:46:48.239 --> 00:46:51.480
there is a line and we've got to work out privacy.

938
00:46:51.599 --> 00:46:54.559
And obviously, as you said, I do a lot on

939
00:46:55.559 --> 00:46:58.920
with my Facebook page of talking about all kinds of

940
00:46:58.920 --> 00:47:02.639
things in life, but I'm really careful about what I

941
00:47:02.679 --> 00:47:05.480
would share about my daughter, and I would never share

942
00:47:05.519 --> 00:47:08.599
anything that she wasn't comfortable with, and I try and

943
00:47:08.679 --> 00:47:12.079
keep it to a minimum to respect her privacy.

944
00:47:12.119 --> 00:47:13.199
So I think that's a big one.

945
00:47:13.280 --> 00:47:15.719
And even if even if Annabelle had said to me today,

946
00:47:16.199 --> 00:47:18.559
which she did, actually like you know, that'd be fine.

947
00:47:18.559 --> 00:47:19.719
That'd be fine, They'd be fine.

948
00:47:20.400 --> 00:47:22.760
Just the fact that I asked her, in the fact

949
00:47:22.800 --> 00:47:25.599
that she knows that I asked her, that sends a

950
00:47:25.639 --> 00:47:28.840
really strong message because that I will respect her.

951
00:47:29.000 --> 00:47:32.480
Also, that is modelingly this idea of consent right of

952
00:47:32.519 --> 00:47:34.599
what it looks like, so that she can apply that

953
00:47:34.679 --> 00:47:38.039
also to friendships and future relationships of you told me this,

954
00:47:38.239 --> 00:47:42.880
Are you okay if I share it with that's important. See,

955
00:47:42.880 --> 00:47:45.400
there's all it's layered. But I think it comes back

956
00:47:45.400 --> 00:47:48.599
to this idea that as parents, we set the tone, yes,

957
00:47:48.960 --> 00:47:50.599
and we want it to be the right tone, and

958
00:47:50.639 --> 00:47:52.280
we're not always going to get it right. I screw

959
00:47:52.360 --> 00:47:55.679
up all the time, and there's no thing as perfect parenting.

960
00:47:55.800 --> 00:47:56.480
No it's not.

961
00:47:56.599 --> 00:47:59.079
But but I think it's just being a bit more

962
00:47:59.119 --> 00:48:00.840
mindful of some of this stuff.

963
00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:01.639
Yeah, for sure.

964
00:48:02.440 --> 00:48:06.480
Rebecca Sparrow, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom

965
00:48:06.519 --> 00:48:07.239
with us today.

966
00:48:07.440 --> 00:48:11.199
Oh thanks, CAUs, it was great to be here.

967
00:48:12.719 --> 00:48:14.599
I think we can all agree that parenting is the

968
00:48:14.639 --> 00:48:17.039
hardest job there is and helping our kids to survive

969
00:48:17.079 --> 00:48:21.119
and thrive during adolescens can be tricky and challenging. So

970
00:48:21.199 --> 00:48:23.639
thank goodness we have someone like Beck who is so

971
00:48:23.760 --> 00:48:26.480
willing to share her wisdom, which she has done in

972
00:48:26.519 --> 00:48:29.840
her online program, the Lighthouse Plan, and she's also put

973
00:48:29.880 --> 00:48:32.920
together a Secrets for Surviving High School, which is perfect

974
00:48:33.039 --> 00:48:35.159
for our tweens. If you would like to find out

975
00:48:35.199 --> 00:48:39.360
more about Beck's online programs, head to Rebecca Sparrow dot com.

976
00:48:39.679 --> 00:48:42.320
We love hearing from you, so if you love this show,

977
00:48:42.440 --> 00:48:44.679
please give it a rating and a review on iTunes

978
00:48:44.760 --> 00:48:47.239
or wherever you get your podcasts, or get in touch

979
00:48:47.280 --> 00:48:51.519
with me personally hello at castdone dot com. Also, if

980
00:48:51.559 --> 00:48:53.760
you're interested in the Crap At a Happy book, which I've

981
00:48:53.880 --> 00:48:56.920
just released, it's available for order and the link is

982
00:48:56.960 --> 00:48:58.920
in the show notes, or you can come to my

983
00:48:58.960 --> 00:49:03.519
website cast done dot com. In the next episode, I'm

984
00:49:03.559 --> 00:49:06.199
talking to doctor Nicki Goldstein, who's a sexologist and a

985
00:49:06.280 --> 00:49:10.000
relationship expert. Ah, it was a fun one. It went

986
00:49:10.079 --> 00:49:12.960
some places I was not expecting and I think you'll

987
00:49:13.039 --> 00:49:18.119
enjoy it. Rappy to Happy is presented by Cast Darn,

988
00:49:18.559 --> 00:49:27.440
produced by Davis Vilenski, Audio production by Darcy Thompson. Listener