Sept. 19, 2023

Russell Brand, Conspiracy Theories and Cognitive Biases

Russell Brand, Conspiracy Theories and Cognitive Biases
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Russell Brand, Conspiracy Theories and Cognitive Biases
Russell Brand, Conspiracy Theories and Cognitive Biases
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Season 10 Psychology & Neuroscience

Why do we believe the things we do? Why do we struggle to believe 'nice' people can do bad things? What leads someone to believe conspiracy theories? In light of the accusations made against Russell Brand this week and his assertion that this is a plot by mainstream media to silence him, I'm unpacking the cognitive biases that influence people's willingness to believe certain information, the psychological needs we seek to satisfy by believing conspiracy theories and why it's so hard to change your beliefs once they're fixed.
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Transcript
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This is Crappita Happy and I am your host, Cas Dunn.

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I'm a clinical and coaching psychologist. I'm mindfulness meditation teacher

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and of course author of the Crappita Happy books. In

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this show, I bring you conversations with interesting, inspiring, intelligent

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people who are experts in their field and who have

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something of value to share that will help you feel

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less crappy and more happy. Welcome to another solo episode

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of Crappy to Happy. This week, I'm really interested to

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talk to you about cognitive biases and particularly this occurred

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to me that I wanted to talk to you about

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this in light of the accusations that have been made

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about Russell Brand. Now, I don't necessarily want to get

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into my opinion about Russell Brand or anybody else's opinion

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about Russell Brand, but the fact is he has been

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accused by several women of rape or sexual assault, and

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he has come back and positioned those accusations as a

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targeted attack by the mainstream media to discredit him because

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he is somebody who has been very vocally outspoken against

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the mainstream media. So this is apparently a coordinated attack

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by various media organizations because it was a kind of

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a collaboration I guess, between The Times and Channel four

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to put this news piece together. It was published as

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an article as well as a documentary. So he has

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said that this is a coordinated attack by the mainstream

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media to silence him. When I first saw this news

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come out, I immediately went to his Instagram page to

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see what his followers had to say about this, and

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unsurprisingly I saw many, many of them coming out in

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support of him, saying that yes, of course this is

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a witch hunt. He's being attacked, Stay strong, lots of

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love and compassion to you. In fairness, there are other

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moderate voices saying, look, I've always been a fan, but

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you know, we need to just not automatically believe celebrities

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just because they say that they're innocent, equally people saying

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innocent until proven guilty. Let's wait to see what the

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judge and jury has to say about this. If there

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are criminal charges to be laid, well let's have that happen.

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Let's not have trial by media. So there were moderate

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voices in there, but I was really curious about this

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just unwavering and unconditional support that was being offered to

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him in light of these very serious allegations, very detailed,

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specific allegations made by not just one, but several women

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over a extended period of time. So it really got

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me to thinking about some of these themes that we

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have been discussing recently on this podcast. Number one, I guess,

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being parasocial relationships. I was curiously, you know, reading through

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the comments, looking at the ones that work along the

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lines of you're too good a person, You're too compassionate

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a person, this, you're not the type of person who

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would ever do this kind of thing. You remember, this

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guy's a stranger to them. He is a celebrity, he's

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in the public eye, and this idea that they think

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that they know him based on what he presents to

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the public, and they're so aligned and so invested in

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their perception of him. So there was that. There's also

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this I will unpack this further in a minute, but

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there was the nature of his counter claim, which I

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then realized. I thought he had put this out after

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this documentary had aired, but in fact, it had come

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out a day before, So he was aware that this

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documentary was coming out, and he preempted it with the

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video saying, you know, this is what's happening on being attacked,

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and so he was kind of getting on the front

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foot before this actually came out. So I'll unpack the

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way he positioned that statement and what I think he

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was trying to do. And then there's just this whole

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idea of the mainstream media and the establishment. I mean,

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I don't even know who the establishment is, but the

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idea that the establishment is about to bring him down

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because he is such a threat to the establishment and

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to the mainstream and so it's there in amongst the

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under the broad umbrella of conspiracy theories. And he also

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I haven't really closely followed him for a while, but

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you know, he's also has very much been aligned with

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questioning the efficacy of vaccines or we told the truth

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about vaccines, we told the truth about necessity of lockdowns,

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and you know, whatever your opinions are about that, he's

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sort of been part of that kind of cohort. I

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guess that has been very much questioning what are we

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being told or we being told the truth? Are we

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being lied to? When this is very much the nature

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of the conspiracy theories that flowed around. So I wanted

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to really unpack that as well. And I guess all

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of this kind of broadly falls within this category of

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cognitive biases, the various unconscious biases that we all hold,

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the way we filter information, the way we interpret information,

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while we believe the things that we do, while we

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continue to believe the things that we do even in

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the face of contradictory information. And you know just how

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some of this stuff plays out. And even if you

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are not necessarily invested in this particular situation, even if

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you don't have an opinion one way or the other,

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cognitive biases affect us all. We are all susceptible to them.

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We are all influenced, and we all can jump to

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conclusions and form opinions without necessarily being completely impartial, and

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then we kind of get fixed, We get very locked

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in on our opinion, and they can be very hard

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to shake. So I wanted to just talk about the

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psychology of that as well. I think this is just

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really it's interesting from a psychological perspective, and it's also

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very useful self reflection. It's very useful for us to

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think about, what are the conclusions that I automatically jump to,

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what are the assumptions I immediately make, what's the filter

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that I view this information through. Am I being completely

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partial in this scenario? And all of this has ramifications

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for not only our decision making, but for the broader society.

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It's polarization that's happening in society, them and us mentality. Oh,

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you're seeing it in Australia right now with the Voice referendum,

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the misinformation that is being spread, that people being shouted

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down for questioning what it's all about. These are the

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same sorts of arguments that were made back when there

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was the gay marriage referendum, back when there were people

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were questioning vaccine efficacy, all of these things. So we've

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seen it happen quite a lot over recent years, and

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I just think it's kind of useful for us all

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to take a pause and to have a look at,

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you know, what are the sorts of things that influence

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our opinions and our decisions. So to use Russell Brand

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as the kind of the case in point at the moment.

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It isn't like I said, it's not all about him,

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but just let's just use this particular situation as an example.

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First up, Russell Brand is somebody who has been very

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vocal and very honest about his history of addiction. He's

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been a heroin addict, alcoholic. He has been open about

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the fact that he had a sex addiction, and he

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has been in a lot of trouble. And I actually

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wasn't even aware really of how much trouble he had

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been in, because I didn't live in the UK. I

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had never watched his programs, for example, when he was

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on the TV here in the UK, I never listened

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to his radio station. Those of us who are from

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other places probably wouldn't be aware of his celebrity status.

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I guess here in the UK even before he went

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over and kind of made his mark in Hollywood, which

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came later. But he was very much rebellious, pushing the boundaries,

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said some things on air on his television programs, on

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his radio program really in hindsight, whether people considered it

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to be at the time or not, like really kind

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of reprehensible things, demeaning of women, very sexist, really inappropriate

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kind of behaviors that he eventually was called out for

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and he, you know, the BBC was fined, he lost

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his job at one point. He then just went on

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to go on to bigger jobs and better jobs and

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went to Hollywood, and made it big over there as well.

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So he never really seemed to have any major consequences

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for any of this kind of behavior. But he even

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in his stand up act very publicly joking, you know,

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sexual jokes and talking about mistreating women. In his own biographies,

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he's written about mistreating women. And I'm not saying that

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that makes him a sex offender, but I am saying

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that he has been very open and very public about

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his bad behavior, and he's I mean, it's been on display,

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it has been absolutely on displays, it's recorded. So why

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then do people find it so hard to believe that

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he may have mistreated women, that he may have treated

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them badly. So what's happened is he has kind of

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I guess he's now no longer in that Hollywood kind

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of world. He's removed himself from that. He has talks

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about how he has recovered from his addictions. He lives

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a very different lifestyle now. He's restyled himself as a

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bit of a spiritual kind of a self helpy Guide,

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does a lot of meditation, a lot of yoga. He

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talks about us needing to let go of our attachments

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tool that fame and power and all that that is offered,

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and because it will just bring us undone those we

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all have our own kind of neurosies, our own addictions.

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And so as a psychologist and as somebody who was

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really interested in Buddhist philosophy and the attachment being the

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source of suffering, like all of that sort of messaging

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really appealed to me. And that's probably when he really

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first came on my radar, was when that was who

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he was positioning himself to be. And so I was

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interested in his meditations. He was talked about Cundlini meditation,

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he talked about all of these things that had helped

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him to recover and overcome his addictions. And you know, leader,

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healthier life, now married, he's now got young children, so

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that's all fine. And then in more recent years he

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has again he's no longer on any sort of mainstream

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TV or radio, but he has a YouTube channel, he

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has a podcast, a couple of podcasts. I think, he

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has his social media accounts, and he has millions and

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millions of people following him. So he is still very

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much in the public eye. He is just removed from

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what you would call mainstream media. He runs his own

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show very much. And like I said, since the pandemic,

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he seemed to have and I haven't paid close attention,

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but he does seem to have moved more towards this

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really questioning a lot of the mainstream kind of messaging

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that we've all been receiving about COVID and vaccinations and

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lockdowns and now you know what's going on in US politics.

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He's very much into that. I would say it appears

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to the casual observer that he does appear to question

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a lot of the more left leaning media outlets CNNMSNBC.

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He appears to be platforming commentators who I would say

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tend to align with more right wing conservative kind of politics.

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He has not necessarily I don't know if he has

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actually come out and said that he is a Trump supporter,

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but he certainly highlights that he feels that Trump may

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have been unfairly attacked by the media. He has profiled

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and platformed people like Tucker Carlson, very outspoken Fox News journalist,

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so as somebody who while always an anarchist, very anti government,

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very anti institution, he appeared to have more of a

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socialist kind of a bent. He was more always about

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feeding the hungry housing the homeless, distributing wealth. Whereas now

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his political agenda, while he doesn't come right out and

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say it, it appears to be very much leaning towards

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the right and a lot of those kinds of ideologies.

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I guess he refers to his followers as awakened wonders.

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He wears a lot of robes, and he does a

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lot of this kind of chanting things. You could say,

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he's kind of styling himself as a bit of a guru,

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and people, certainly you know, are inspired by him and

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look up to him, and they listen to what he

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has to say. So that's a little that's a little

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Russell brand kind of an update if you weren't familiar. So,

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first of all, I guess to start with, when we

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start thinking about cognitive biases and the kinds of faulty

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thinking or the factors that can influence how we make

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decisions and how we interpret information, let's talk a little

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bit about what you might call a conspiracy theory. Now,

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I'm even a little reluctant to use the term conspiracy

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theory because I feel like that that term is it's

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used in a kind of a derogatory way, like if

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you're accused of being a conspiracy theorist. It's like you're

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of a nut job. You're wearing a tinfoil hat. You know,

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it's you're stupid, you don't know what you're talking about,

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Like you're a whack job. Very very derogatory, I make

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no mistake. And so anybody who is questioning of messages

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that we might receive from government, or from media or

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from whatever, you're not going to win them over by

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calling them a conspiracy theorist, because in their mind, or

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even in your mind, what you are doing is rightfully

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questioning and being being skeptical, and you know, not just

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swallowing everything that somebody wants you to believe. And you

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would consider yourself to be kind of a little bit

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more informed than perhaps somebody else. So I don't want

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to use the term conspiracy theory too much, but I

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kind of can't help it, because that's kind of what

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it's called in psychology. So a conspiracy theory, according to

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social psychologists, and I have taken my advice here from

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somebody who specializes in this area, a conspiracy theory is

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it's like a propososed plot carried out in secret, usually

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by powerful people. With some kind of a sinister goal.

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So this is some a powerful group of people who've

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got something going on that they're not really sharing and

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for their in their own self interest, not in the

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interest of the public, or not not in your interest.

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So certain people are more inclined to believe these kinds

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of ideas, these kinds of proposed supposed conspiracy plots and objectives.

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Certain people are you know, psychologically speaking, there are particular

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motivations that people have psychological drivers. I guess that incline

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people to buying into these kinds of conspiracy ideas, and

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I want to break those down just now, because this

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is one example of a cognitive bias Like this is

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like if you if you're presented with some information and

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you question skeptical of that, or if you think, I

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do not buy this, this is clearly there's a hidden

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agenda here. I'm not going along with this. I'm not

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going to be suckered into this. Then what is it?

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What are the factors that cause you to either believe

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what you've been told or to dismiss and discount what

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you've been told and in fact to actively deny what

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you're being told. So I guess we all fall along

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the spectrum to some degree, Like we all can have

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a healthy skepticism. And it's true sometimes we are right

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to question things. Sometimes we have been lied to. That's

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the tricky bit, Like the government isn't always honest with us,

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the media isn't always upfront. There's absolutely there is bias

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in the media. We know this. But where does healthy

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skepticism stop, and where does this kind of I don't

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believe anything, this real conspiracy, like there is some hidden

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agenda going on here. Where does that kind of start?

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You know, As I said, we all fall along that

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spectrum to some degree, and to some degree, being a

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little bit skeptical is an adaptive response, Okay, So it

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helps us to maintain a sense of control and a

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sense of certainty, especially when things are out of control

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or uncertain. It's it's a coping mechanism that can help

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us to get through really difficult times. And I think

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in times of crisis, in times of up people. I

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mean COVID was a classic example. We've never experienced anything

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like that in our lifetime. Then there was this proliferation

283
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of conspiracy theories because people were questioning and people just

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looking for something to hold on to some sense of

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certainty to make sense of what this is that's going on. So,

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according to Professor Karen Douglas, who's actually an assio psychologist

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who is now based over here in the UK and

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is an expert in conspiracy theories, our belief in conspiracy

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theories is driven by three particular psychological needs that we

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are seeking to satisfy. So the first is epistemic and

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this is our need for knowledge or for certainty. There's

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our psychological need to have some certainty, particularly when things

293
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are ambiguous or uncertain. So if there is a big event,

294
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there is a big catastrophe, planfalls out of the sky,

295
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global pandemic, then we look for Our brain is looking

296
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for a way to make sense of that, and that

297
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can lead us to latch onto an idea that may

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not be rooted in truth or reality, but it can

299
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lead us to grab a hold of an idea and

300
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kind of run with it, this kind of idea that

301
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there is something else at play. Apparently, people who have

302
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a lower level of education are more likely to buy

303
00:17:28.720 --> 00:17:31.920
into conspiracy theories, to believe conspiracy theories, and she makes

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the point that that is not because they are less intelligent,

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but perhaps because of having not as much access to

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education and critical thinking skills, that they may be less

307
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likely to be able to differentiate, you know, where they

308
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get their information from, less likely to kind of critically

309
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analyze sources of information and look at where that's coming from.

310
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You know, what's driving that, what's the agenda? Why is

311
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somebody wanting you to believe that? The other psychological need

312
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at play here is existential reasons. So this is our

313
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need to feel safe and secure, and it speaks to

314
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our need for autonomy, our need for some power and

315
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some control. So the first one was more about certainty.

316
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This one's about when we feel powerless or out of

317
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control and we're looking to regain some sense of control.

318
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Then we are inclined to believe something that may or

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may not be true. We're feeling disillusioned, you know, that's

320
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when we're more likely to be drawn into a conspiracy theory.

321
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I have also read that people who have you know,

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maybe early you know, I always go back to early

323
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childhood experiences, But people who have reason to be mistrusting,

324
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people who have maybe had difficult childhood experiences, some trauma,

325
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and tend to just generally be less trusting then they

326
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are also potentially more likely to believe conspiracy theories. You know,

327
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there's just that kind of part of your nature, part

328
00:18:56.359 --> 00:18:59.880
of your programming, that you know, to question everything, to

329
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not fully one hundred percent trust that people have got

330
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your best interests at heart. And the third is a

331
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social need, our psychological need for community and belonging, our

332
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need to feel good about ourselves, and our need to

333
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feel good about the group that we belong to. So

334
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when we're believing conspiracy theories and having this kind of

335
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deep cynicism and doubt about what we're being told, there

336
00:19:26.839 --> 00:19:31.720
is something here about feeling like you know something that

337
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other people don't know, that somehow you are more special

338
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or you've got access to, you know, some knowledge that

339
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the rest of the people don't know, and feeling a

340
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little bit superior about that. And if you've ever been

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on the receiving end of somebody saying just you just

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go and do your research, like I'm not going to

343
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do it for you. Go do you know this whole

344
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Go do your research. You know you don't know what

345
00:19:54.079 --> 00:19:57.160
you're talking about, because I've done my research and I

346
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know more than you know. And then there is this

347
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belonging to a community and this sense that the group

348
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that you're involved in, and particularly if that group has

349
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a sense that they are somehow oppressed or they're being silenced,

350
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or they're being shut down, or they're being unappreciated or invalidated,

351
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then there is this kind of strength and power that

352
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comes from the affiliation of being in that group and

353
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this rising up against the powers, whoever they may be,

354
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you know, taking a stance as a group and as

355
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a community, and you're having this kind of over inflated

356
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sense of importance. You know, you see this a lot

357
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like this group that I belong to is the good,

358
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the right, the moral, the upstanding. We're the truth tellers,

359
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we are the we're the keepers of the truth, and

360
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all of the rest of you you're on the wrong side.

361
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You're you're the ones ruining it for everybody. And this

362
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is where this polarization gets set up. This is them

363
00:20:52.319 --> 00:20:55.480
an US kind of mentality. So speaking of it feeling

364
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special and unique, Yes, people who have narcissistic tendencies, and

365
00:21:00.039 --> 00:21:02.440
I've talked about narcissism quite a lot. You know, people

366
00:21:02.440 --> 00:21:05.200
who are narcissistic, they have that a sense of entitlement,

367
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this sense of specialness, this sense of being fantasies about

368
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wealth and power and beauty and being unique and special

369
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and talented. And yes, they are more prone to believing

370
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in conspiracy theories. Now, I don't know if Russell Brand

371
00:21:18.839 --> 00:21:22.799
is a narcissist, but certainly he has positioned himself and

372
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presents himself as some kind of messiah. I mean, I

373
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think he even calls himself a messiah. And you may say, oh,

374
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that's just tongue in cheek, or that's just you know,

375
00:21:32.880 --> 00:21:36.559
that's just Russell being that's always so funny. But he

376
00:21:36.799 --> 00:21:38.880
you know, he wears the robes and he goes around

377
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and he holds people's hands and he calls us, he

378
00:21:41.759 --> 00:21:47.200
calls everybody my awakened wonders and together we are rising

379
00:21:47.279 --> 00:21:50.359
up and you know, we know the truth. So he's

380
00:21:50.519 --> 00:21:56.880
really pandering to these psychological need to belong, to be superior,

381
00:21:56.960 --> 00:22:00.000
to be to be special, and you know, to be

382
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:04.119
part of that in group. He has absolutely cultivated that

383
00:22:04.680 --> 00:22:07.839
in his community. Now, this is a person remember who

384
00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:11.720
has who also has been very public about going through recovery,

385
00:22:11.759 --> 00:22:15.680
going through a twelve step program, having to completely let

386
00:22:15.680 --> 00:22:20.039
go of his ego, having to completely own the terrible

387
00:22:20.079 --> 00:22:22.240
things that he has done in his past, to take it,

388
00:22:22.279 --> 00:22:24.559
to be accountable for the things that he has done.

389
00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:29.559
So this guru kind of thing, it's just doesn't fit.

390
00:22:29.960 --> 00:22:31.920
I mean, and we see this a lot. I mean,

391
00:22:31.960 --> 00:22:35.960
you will see plenty of very spiritual, self helpy gurui

392
00:22:36.079 --> 00:22:38.920
type people who go on to do terrible, terrible things.

393
00:22:39.279 --> 00:22:43.640
Buddhist monks have been accused of sexual assault, of been

394
00:22:43.759 --> 00:22:48.599
treating people very very badly. Nobody is immune. Go back

395
00:22:48.640 --> 00:22:50.920
and listen to Gwen Ad said, like, nobody is immune

396
00:22:51.759 --> 00:22:55.359
to being seduced by power and control. And certainly Russell

397
00:22:55.400 --> 00:23:00.000
Brandt has been very open about his previous seduction by

398
00:23:00.440 --> 00:23:04.559
power and control. Absolutely, he has been very honest about that.

399
00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:07.799
So is he a little narcissistic, Well, that's not for

400
00:23:07.839 --> 00:23:10.799
me to say, but certainly you could say that some

401
00:23:10.839 --> 00:23:13.960
of his behaviors have a little touch of the narcissism

402
00:23:14.279 --> 00:23:16.920
to them, that's for sure. So once you subscribe to

403
00:23:17.119 --> 00:23:20.200
a belief, any belief at all, then something happens in

404
00:23:20.240 --> 00:23:23.839
our brains called confirmation bias. And you've probably heard of this.

405
00:23:24.319 --> 00:23:29.680
Confirmation bias happens when when you hold something to be true,

406
00:23:30.279 --> 00:23:33.400
whether it's that the sky is blue, or that right

407
00:23:33.440 --> 00:23:36.640
wing is bad or dogs are better than cats. Then

408
00:23:37.359 --> 00:23:40.480
what your brain will do as a way of shortcutting

409
00:23:40.839 --> 00:23:44.680
the thinking process and conserving energy is it will filter

410
00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:47.599
in all of the information that you are presented with

411
00:23:47.720 --> 00:23:52.400
that confirms your existing belief. It will look for, seek out,

412
00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:56.400
and filter in anything that confirms what you already believe

413
00:23:56.480 --> 00:23:59.319
to be true, and it will filter out, or it

414
00:23:59.359 --> 00:24:04.160
will dismiss or deny or minimize any information that comes

415
00:24:04.160 --> 00:24:08.440
in that disconfirms your pre existing belief. So, once you

416
00:24:08.519 --> 00:24:12.119
believe something, it becomes very very hard. It is very

417
00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:16.880
challenging to change a belief, to suddenly not believe that

418
00:24:16.920 --> 00:24:20.319
thing is true, to actually say, oh, I've been completely

419
00:24:20.319 --> 00:24:23.680
wrong about this, especially if it is something that's almost

420
00:24:23.759 --> 00:24:27.440
become a part of your identity. You think about religious beliefs,

421
00:24:27.799 --> 00:24:31.880
political beliefs to some degree, you know what footy team

422
00:24:31.920 --> 00:24:36.319
you go for, your ideas about animal welfare or refugees

423
00:24:36.519 --> 00:24:39.640
or any of these kind of controversial topics like where

424
00:24:39.680 --> 00:24:43.599
you stand. And once you align yourself with that belief

425
00:24:43.680 --> 00:24:46.119
and that view, and you align yourself with a group

426
00:24:46.160 --> 00:24:49.480
of people who hold the same sort of belief, then

427
00:24:49.640 --> 00:24:51.960
it becomes very hard to shake that because it's not

428
00:24:51.960 --> 00:24:54.839
that somebody just needs to tell you the opposite, just

429
00:24:55.119 --> 00:24:57.400
to show you all of the ways and the reasons

430
00:24:57.400 --> 00:24:59.960
why what you think is not the right way to think.

431
00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:02.160
Think that what you believe is true is not true

432
00:25:02.480 --> 00:25:08.119
because your brain is actively working to discount any counter information.

433
00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:11.599
You know, you will go on social media, and it's

434
00:25:11.599 --> 00:25:14.799
not just your brain then that is just filtering in

435
00:25:14.799 --> 00:25:18.519
information or having you keep scrolling and you know, ignoring

436
00:25:18.799 --> 00:25:22.480
and dismissing anything that you see that runs counter to

437
00:25:22.519 --> 00:25:26.039
what you already believe. It is that then the algorithms

438
00:25:26.079 --> 00:25:28.920
are working to keep on feeding you information that also

439
00:25:29.039 --> 00:25:31.839
confirms what you believe to be true. The algorithms will

440
00:25:31.880 --> 00:25:34.200
show you accounts and show you groups and show you

441
00:25:34.279 --> 00:25:36.759
pages that are aligned with the same sort of viewpoint

442
00:25:37.079 --> 00:25:41.519
that you have, So you are continually being represented with

443
00:25:41.640 --> 00:25:45.480
more information that confirms or you're already believed to be true.

444
00:25:45.519 --> 00:25:48.279
So this is how our beliefs become very, very fixed.

445
00:25:48.319 --> 00:25:52.759
We become very convinced of the truth of what we believe,

446
00:25:53.039 --> 00:25:56.720
and it is really hard to shake that. So again,

447
00:25:56.920 --> 00:25:59.960
if we go back to Russell Brand, the situation is

448
00:26:00.039 --> 00:26:03.680
said over the weekend, for I believe four women who

449
00:26:03.680 --> 00:26:05.839
he either had a relationship with or who he worked with,

450
00:26:05.920 --> 00:26:09.119
both in the UK and in the USA, have accused

451
00:26:09.200 --> 00:26:11.400
him of rape or sexual assault. These women don't know

452
00:26:11.440 --> 00:26:15.200
each other. They've shared quite similar accounts of, you know,

453
00:26:15.240 --> 00:26:18.799
particular personal characteristics like his eyes closing over his eyes,

454
00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:21.359
him sort of disappearing and his eyes going very black,

455
00:26:21.400 --> 00:26:26.079
and they've given detailed accounts. One of these women attended

456
00:26:26.079 --> 00:26:29.680
a rape crisis center after this happened. They have text

457
00:26:29.720 --> 00:26:34.079
messages where he has apologized to them and said I'm

458
00:26:34.119 --> 00:26:38.359
really sorry. I should never have done that. There's arguably

459
00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:40.839
there's plenty of evidence here, and no, it hasn't been

460
00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:43.480
to the police, and it hasn't been to a judge

461
00:26:43.519 --> 00:26:46.880
or jury. But it was very clear to me watching

462
00:26:47.359 --> 00:26:51.519
the documentary that the researchers who put it together had

463
00:26:51.880 --> 00:26:57.119
spent some time corroborating all of these accounts. They had

464
00:26:57.680 --> 00:27:01.720
gone to witnesses to confirm, they had verified phone numbers

465
00:27:01.759 --> 00:27:05.799
on text messages, they had copies of rape crisis reports

466
00:27:05.880 --> 00:27:08.960
at things like that after one incident, they had they

467
00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:12.119
spoke to family members and friends of people who were

468
00:27:12.119 --> 00:27:14.160
in the situation or people who had been around the

469
00:27:14.200 --> 00:27:16.680
situation at the time. Now, remember this is a person

470
00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:19.400
who has been very open about the fact that he's

471
00:27:19.480 --> 00:27:23.880
bragged about sexual conquests, and yet people fail to believe

472
00:27:24.359 --> 00:27:27.480
these women. So what is going on that they find

473
00:27:27.519 --> 00:27:30.480
it so difficult to believe the things that these women

474
00:27:30.519 --> 00:27:33.240
have said. So part of the reason is because of

475
00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:36.799
the way Russell Brandt has positioned himself to date. So

476
00:27:36.880 --> 00:27:40.880
one thing we know about conspiracy theories is that one

477
00:27:40.880 --> 00:27:44.160
way to get ahead of them is to pre empt

478
00:27:44.359 --> 00:27:49.359
So basically, if you tell people you might see some things.

479
00:27:49.640 --> 00:27:53.119
You might see some news articles that say this, this,

480
00:27:53.160 --> 00:27:57.400
and this, you might see some conspiracy theories that I're

481
00:27:57.400 --> 00:28:00.880
going to tell you that climate change is not really Now,

482
00:28:00.920 --> 00:28:03.559
here's the facts. Here's what you need to be armed with.

483
00:28:03.759 --> 00:28:05.720
Here's some of the information you need to be armed

484
00:28:05.720 --> 00:28:08.279
with to be able to decipher this information, to make

485
00:28:08.319 --> 00:28:11.039
sense of this information, to verify this information for yourself

486
00:28:11.279 --> 00:28:14.759
that is proven to be. Like, once somebody's already believed something,

487
00:28:14.799 --> 00:28:16.480
it's really hard to shake. But if you can get

488
00:28:16.519 --> 00:28:19.440
ahead of them believing it and you can say, look,

489
00:28:19.880 --> 00:28:21.720
you might be presented with some information here that's a

490
00:28:21.720 --> 00:28:25.039
bit dodge, but here you go, like, this is what

491
00:28:25.079 --> 00:28:26.799
you need to understand and this is where you can

492
00:28:26.839 --> 00:28:30.160
go to get the facts. Then that is shown to

493
00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:33.880
be effective. So what Russell Brand has done is he

494
00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:38.039
has pre emptied this documentary. He has come out ahead

495
00:28:38.039 --> 00:28:41.480
of time and he has said, guys, I got a situation.

496
00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:45.559
I'm obviously paraphrasing here, but you mean it's on his instagram.

497
00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:47.720
You can go see yourself. But he has said, what

498
00:28:47.920 --> 00:28:50.920
is happening to me now is that I am being

499
00:28:50.960 --> 00:28:55.519
the target of the mainstream media. I've been talking about

500
00:28:55.559 --> 00:28:59.000
this for ages, about how the mainstream media is trying

501
00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:01.799
to silence people who questioning them, and now it seems

502
00:29:01.839 --> 00:29:04.920
they're coming for me. So he's pre empty. You're about

503
00:29:04.920 --> 00:29:08.039
to see something. But remember what we've been talking about

504
00:29:08.079 --> 00:29:11.839
all this time is how they are not telling the truth,

505
00:29:11.880 --> 00:29:14.599
about how they are targeting and silencing people. And oh

506
00:29:14.680 --> 00:29:18.680
now it's my Now I'm the victim. Not once, not once,

507
00:29:18.880 --> 00:29:22.200
did he mention any of the actual victims or any

508
00:29:22.240 --> 00:29:24.160
of the or I should say, any of the women

509
00:29:24.240 --> 00:29:27.519
who have made claims against him. He completely made this

510
00:29:27.559 --> 00:29:30.119
about the media. The other thing he said is and

511
00:29:30.160 --> 00:29:33.039
I thought this was really interesting. He said, you guys

512
00:29:33.039 --> 00:29:35.279
have been telling me you guys have been in the

513
00:29:35.319 --> 00:29:37.759
comment saying to me, watch out, Russell, It's only a

514
00:29:37.799 --> 00:29:40.480
matter of time before they come for you. And lo

515
00:29:40.640 --> 00:29:44.440
and behold, my time has come. He's essentially saying to them,

516
00:29:44.799 --> 00:29:48.359
you guys knew you're the smart ones. You saw this coming.

517
00:29:48.839 --> 00:29:51.960
All of my awakened people, we know better than this. Oh.

518
00:29:52.319 --> 00:29:56.400
Then he said, this is interesting. I have been very transparent.

519
00:29:57.160 --> 00:30:02.599
In fact, maybe I've been too transparent about my previous behaviors.

520
00:30:02.799 --> 00:30:06.559
In other words, I've been too honest, and now they're

521
00:30:06.640 --> 00:30:10.720
using my honesty against me. I've been so open, and

522
00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:14.480
I have left myself exposed, and now people are using

523
00:30:14.519 --> 00:30:17.920
this to come back, now that I am disrupting, Now

524
00:30:17.920 --> 00:30:22.160
that I've become a problem because I'm speaking up against them,

525
00:30:22.759 --> 00:30:25.960
Now they're using that to come for me. It was

526
00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:31.680
a very cleverly worded statement. Again, like I said, not once,

527
00:30:31.799 --> 00:30:35.920
no mention of any of the women who he obviously knows,

528
00:30:36.599 --> 00:30:40.119
you know, he had relationships with them. He said, I

529
00:30:40.440 --> 00:30:44.440
all of my relationships have been consensual, and again which

530
00:30:44.799 --> 00:30:47.799
sort of sidesteps the fact that you can be in

531
00:30:47.839 --> 00:30:51.000
a consensual relationship and still be raped. You can be

532
00:30:51.039 --> 00:30:54.119
in a consensual relationship and still be sexually assaulted. So

533
00:30:54.839 --> 00:30:58.480
all of my relationships have been consensual. Doesn't really address

534
00:30:58.519 --> 00:31:02.039
the fact that there may have been within those consensual

535
00:31:02.079 --> 00:31:08.519
relationships particular incidents that were not consensual. So again sort

536
00:31:08.519 --> 00:31:11.599
of didn't really address that. Then he said, obviously, I

537
00:31:11.720 --> 00:31:17.519
categorically deny, I refute these these allegations you know, absolutely

538
00:31:17.519 --> 00:31:21.839
not true, and stay free. So that's his tagline. Now,

539
00:31:21.839 --> 00:31:24.799
everybody's stay free because other people are trying to the mainstream.

540
00:31:24.799 --> 00:31:28.039
They're trying to shut you down, silence, you take away

541
00:31:28.079 --> 00:31:31.720
your freedom. So stay free. So very clever, very cunning,

542
00:31:32.519 --> 00:31:36.440
very interesting way to position that. I also find it

543
00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:40.079
interesting that as somebody who is a recovering addict, like

544
00:31:40.119 --> 00:31:42.200
I said, who has been very open about the twelve

545
00:31:42.240 --> 00:31:45.240
step process, you know, step step four, I'm pretty sure

546
00:31:45.240 --> 00:31:47.079
it is. And the twelve step process is to take

547
00:31:47.079 --> 00:31:50.400
an inventory and to make amends for anything that you've done.

548
00:31:50.599 --> 00:31:53.880
And and like I said, he's he's really self styled

549
00:31:53.960 --> 00:31:57.559
himself as a spiritual guy. Has somebody who is deeply

550
00:31:57.599 --> 00:32:00.240
spiritual and very much one with the universe. And you know,

551
00:32:00.319 --> 00:32:02.920
above all of this materialism and fame, I've had all

552
00:32:02.960 --> 00:32:05.640
of that. It didn't satisfy me. I've realized that that

553
00:32:05.720 --> 00:32:08.039
is not where we find our happiness. That's not where

554
00:32:08.079 --> 00:32:10.799
we find our satisfaction. We have to rise above all

555
00:32:10.839 --> 00:32:14.200
of that. So this kind of spiritual message, this humble

556
00:32:14.319 --> 00:32:17.160
kind of message, you know, about dropping your ego and

557
00:32:17.240 --> 00:32:20.279
letting go of all of that, the trappings of fame

558
00:32:20.359 --> 00:32:23.119
and wealth. And yet there was not once, you know,

559
00:32:23.200 --> 00:32:26.519
in any of this statement, not even an if I

560
00:32:26.640 --> 00:32:32.920
have inadvertently hurt somebody, if I have somehow done something

561
00:32:33.000 --> 00:32:36.599
to harm somebody and I have been unaware of that,

562
00:32:37.200 --> 00:32:42.400
I unreservedly apologize. You know, there wasn't even that. There

563
00:32:42.480 --> 00:32:45.400
was just this is lies. This is a mainstream media.

564
00:32:45.559 --> 00:32:48.279
They're attacking me, which completely diverted everybody's attention to the

565
00:32:48.279 --> 00:32:51.000
mainstream media and away from these women. Now, speaking of

566
00:32:51.039 --> 00:32:53.319
the women, I went through, as I said, I went

567
00:32:53.319 --> 00:32:58.200
through the comments, and the people are so invested, so invested,

568
00:32:58.480 --> 00:33:03.279
and so I identified with him and his message that

569
00:33:03.319 --> 00:33:06.759
they are even dismantling like that, they're even coming out

570
00:33:06.759 --> 00:33:11.000
with things like I watched the show completely scripted, like

571
00:33:11.039 --> 00:33:13.000
they didn't even give their names. How can you believe

572
00:33:13.039 --> 00:33:15.000
these women when you don't even know their names. They're

573
00:33:15.079 --> 00:33:18.160
unwilling to come forward, they're anonymous. They're obviously like just

574
00:33:18.279 --> 00:33:23.759
completely discrediting these women who have really put themselves out

575
00:33:23.799 --> 00:33:27.680
there to make these to make these accusations. It's interesting

576
00:33:27.720 --> 00:33:30.000
to me that just in the last week as well,

577
00:33:30.039 --> 00:33:32.240
there's been another big news article, and that was about

578
00:33:32.440 --> 00:33:38.000
Ashton Kutcher and Miller Kuhnis, his wife, who came under

579
00:33:38.039 --> 00:33:42.799
attack for writing character references for Danny Marsterton. So Danny

580
00:33:42.799 --> 00:33:45.519
Marsterton was somebody who worked with them on that seventies

581
00:33:45.519 --> 00:33:48.559
show back in the day when they were all very young.

582
00:33:49.200 --> 00:33:52.680
They've known him for twenty five years or so. And

583
00:33:52.920 --> 00:33:58.440
he was found guilty of sexually assaulting to women, and

584
00:33:59.519 --> 00:34:03.559
he was about to be sentenced, and they wrote a

585
00:34:03.640 --> 00:34:07.480
character reference. So he was found guilty, he was going

586
00:34:07.519 --> 00:34:10.760
to jail, and they wrote a character reference saying that

587
00:34:10.840 --> 00:34:13.480
he had always been a great friend, he'd been a

588
00:34:13.480 --> 00:34:19.320
great mentor, that they didn't feel like it was the

589
00:34:19.440 --> 00:34:22.400
right thing that his daughter be deprived of her father.

590
00:34:23.440 --> 00:34:26.360
And they intended these letters to be read by the judge,

591
00:34:26.480 --> 00:34:29.039
but it came out publicly that they had written these letters,

592
00:34:29.039 --> 00:34:36.440
and they were crucified because again completely failing to acknowledge

593
00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:41.480
the impact on the victims, almost minimizing his crimes because

594
00:34:41.480 --> 00:34:44.760
he's such a good guy, Like he really doesn't deserve

595
00:34:45.039 --> 00:34:48.159
to go to jail forever because he's such a nice guy.

596
00:34:49.199 --> 00:34:53.519
He's done all of these great things, and they had

597
00:34:53.559 --> 00:34:54.840
to come out and put out a plan. I think

598
00:34:54.840 --> 00:34:58.480
it was a very pr driven apology. Like even their

599
00:34:58.480 --> 00:35:01.159
apology was kind of you know, ripped it to pieces.

600
00:35:01.800 --> 00:35:04.760
But it's this idea. I mean, what were they thinking.

601
00:35:04.840 --> 00:35:08.440
They've fed up a charity based on, you know, saving

602
00:35:08.559 --> 00:35:12.400
children from sex trafficking, and they were going into publicly

603
00:35:12.519 --> 00:35:16.880
bad for a convicted sex offender, you know, who committed

604
00:35:17.000 --> 00:35:19.559
crimes against very young women. I think they were teenagers

605
00:35:19.599 --> 00:35:23.559
when the crimes happen. So this idea that our perceptions

606
00:35:23.599 --> 00:35:28.760
are influenced, they're tainted by our opinion of somebody that

607
00:35:28.840 --> 00:35:32.519
we can't reconcile in our mind that this person that

608
00:35:32.639 --> 00:35:35.719
I have this relationship with, that I know to be

609
00:35:35.880 --> 00:35:38.559
a good and kind and decent person, that they could

610
00:35:38.599 --> 00:35:42.360
do that thing and this kind of blind spot that

611
00:35:42.400 --> 00:35:45.639
they would write a letter, they would write a character

612
00:35:45.719 --> 00:35:50.000
reference and have that go public. When we're talking about

613
00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:54.159
a convicted sex offender, and so part of me thinks, well,

614
00:35:54.800 --> 00:35:57.519
I don't know, can you really judge them? Because have

615
00:35:57.679 --> 00:36:00.639
you ever had a friend, a very very dear, a close,

616
00:36:00.760 --> 00:36:05.239
long standing friend, accused of a crime and had them say,

617
00:36:05.719 --> 00:36:08.480
you know, please, could you just it's done. I've done it,

618
00:36:08.519 --> 00:36:10.679
I'm guilty. I'm gone to jail. But anything that you

619
00:36:10.679 --> 00:36:12.880
could do that might, you know, make that they might

620
00:36:12.880 --> 00:36:16.360
take into consideration when sentencing me for my daughter because

621
00:36:16.400 --> 00:36:19.000
dahlahlah blah blah blah blah, this was thirty years ago.

622
00:36:19.199 --> 00:36:22.280
I'm a different person now, you know whatever. Would you

623
00:36:22.400 --> 00:36:24.760
feel a little bit torn? It's I think it's very

624
00:36:24.760 --> 00:36:26.880
easy to say, oh my god, I would drop that

625
00:36:26.920 --> 00:36:29.119
person like hot potato. They would never hear from me again.

626
00:36:29.199 --> 00:36:33.559
What an absolutely horrible, horrific thing to do, Not a

627
00:36:33.639 --> 00:36:36.840
chance in the world. It's easy to say that, but

628
00:36:37.119 --> 00:36:39.800
that is not the reality. Like that is that, that

629
00:36:39.920 --> 00:36:43.480
is not how most people's brains and emotions work in

630
00:36:43.519 --> 00:36:46.199
these sorts of situations. We all know that people aren't

631
00:36:46.199 --> 00:36:49.119
all good and all bad. We're all influenced by our

632
00:36:49.199 --> 00:36:53.400
personal experience of somebody. And that's again, it's another kind

633
00:36:53.440 --> 00:36:57.519
of cognitive bias that affects all of us. I know

634
00:36:57.880 --> 00:37:00.599
in my own life people who have come out of

635
00:37:00.599 --> 00:37:03.679
marriage breakups and there's been a stack of evidence that

636
00:37:03.840 --> 00:37:10.079
the person has been an emotional abuser, and people just

637
00:37:10.199 --> 00:37:12.320
hang in with them, hang and be friends, you know,

638
00:37:12.320 --> 00:37:14.719
even when they're friends with both parties. People don't want

639
00:37:14.760 --> 00:37:17.440
to believe you know bad things about people that they

640
00:37:17.519 --> 00:37:20.480
know and respect and admire and like. So there's a

641
00:37:20.480 --> 00:37:22.920
lot of that going on with Russell Brandt. People have

642
00:37:23.000 --> 00:37:26.320
this cognitive dissonance, like I know you as this person,

643
00:37:26.440 --> 00:37:29.320
and it's really challenging for me to accept that you

644
00:37:29.360 --> 00:37:31.719
could be that person. And therefore I will come up

645
00:37:31.760 --> 00:37:34.199
with all of the reasons and all of the justifications

646
00:37:34.239 --> 00:37:37.880
to make this make sense to me, because I can't

647
00:37:37.880 --> 00:37:48.880
bring myself to believe that you would do that, which

648
00:37:48.920 --> 00:37:52.880
brings me to parasocial relationships. The people who have this alignment,

649
00:37:52.880 --> 00:37:56.039
this affiliation with Russell Brandt, the people who are so

650
00:37:56.239 --> 00:37:59.159
strongly believe in his message and his goodness, and some

651
00:37:59.199 --> 00:38:02.599
of the comments on his page, why would such a good, kind,

652
00:38:02.800 --> 00:38:07.079
charismatic person like he would never do this? They have

653
00:38:07.239 --> 00:38:11.719
never met him. These people have never met him. He

654
00:38:11.760 --> 00:38:15.559
has a public persona that they feel some connection to

655
00:38:16.119 --> 00:38:20.119
they've invested in this public persona because they align with

656
00:38:20.199 --> 00:38:24.639
some of his messaging and and they absolutely they're so

657
00:38:24.840 --> 00:38:29.320
invested that they find it really challenging to then have

658
00:38:29.400 --> 00:38:34.039
to unwind that and to consider that this person is

659
00:38:34.079 --> 00:38:38.000
not the person that they thought he was. Too. It's

660
00:38:38.039 --> 00:38:40.920
too big a gap, and our brains don't like that.

661
00:38:41.360 --> 00:38:44.119
Our brains will come up with a if we this

662
00:38:44.159 --> 00:38:47.519
is cognitive dissonance. Cognitive dissonance is when you have a

663
00:38:47.559 --> 00:38:50.360
belief about something, but then your behavior doesn't line up

664
00:38:50.400 --> 00:38:53.280
with that, and how do you reconcile that. So let's

665
00:38:53.280 --> 00:38:56.800
say I'm a I'm a committed vegetarian because I believe

666
00:38:56.800 --> 00:38:58.480
in animal welfare. This happened to me actually in my

667
00:38:58.519 --> 00:39:00.559
own life. I was, you know, committed vegetar because I

668
00:39:00.599 --> 00:39:03.599
really believed in animal welfare. And then I found out that, like,

669
00:39:03.960 --> 00:39:06.519
you know, dairy cows got treated really badly, and you know,

670
00:39:06.519 --> 00:39:08.599
there's all these other things that I was doing that

671
00:39:08.760 --> 00:39:12.280
would really we're not very supportive of animal welfare. And so,

672
00:39:12.760 --> 00:39:16.360
you know, my after some sort of grappling, I eventually

673
00:39:16.519 --> 00:39:19.880
became vegan for a while, but not forever. And I

674
00:39:19.920 --> 00:39:23.000
guess you know, when I decided to eat meat again,

675
00:39:23.119 --> 00:39:24.800
or eat eggs, or eat cheese or whatever it was,

676
00:39:24.840 --> 00:39:26.840
it was a step by step sort of process. I

677
00:39:26.840 --> 00:39:29.559
had to come to some way of reconciling that in

678
00:39:29.559 --> 00:39:33.639
my mind, justifying to myself why that was okay. So,

679
00:39:34.039 --> 00:39:37.360
typically what happens if we are doing something, If we're

680
00:39:37.400 --> 00:39:40.239
acting in a particular way, but we have a belief

681
00:39:40.400 --> 00:39:46.480
that doesn't or an attitude that is contrary to that

682
00:39:46.119 --> 00:39:49.639
that conflicts with what we are doing, we are much

683
00:39:49.639 --> 00:39:54.360
more likely to adjust our thoughts than to adjust our behavior.

684
00:39:54.760 --> 00:39:56.960
We are more likely to come up with a way

685
00:39:57.000 --> 00:40:01.079
to justify or minimize or downplay, or you know, find

686
00:40:01.079 --> 00:40:04.280
an excuse for what we're doing to make it feel

687
00:40:04.360 --> 00:40:09.079
okay than we are to change our behavior. So people

688
00:40:09.119 --> 00:40:12.400
are aligning themselves to somebody who is now an accused

689
00:40:12.559 --> 00:40:16.880
sexual offender, sexual predator. Hasn't been convicted. We know that,

690
00:40:17.119 --> 00:40:19.079
but you know, people have come out and so these

691
00:40:19.079 --> 00:40:22.280
are people who would probably in day to day life

692
00:40:22.800 --> 00:40:26.119
be supportive of women, you know, stand up for sexual

693
00:40:26.119 --> 00:40:33.519
assault victims, maybe strong feminists, maybe very anti you know, violence,

694
00:40:33.679 --> 00:40:38.280
anti male abuse against women, all of these things, but

695
00:40:38.480 --> 00:40:42.519
are finding a way to justify their support of him

696
00:40:43.079 --> 00:40:48.079
by either dismissing these women, finding fault with their testimony,

697
00:40:49.119 --> 00:40:52.320
somehow coming up with some convoluted way in their own

698
00:40:52.360 --> 00:40:56.039
mind to justify their continued support of him. Because these

699
00:40:56.039 --> 00:40:59.039
things don't make sense. These two things don't line up

700
00:40:59.159 --> 00:41:03.119
in my head. So in order for me to continue

701
00:41:03.159 --> 00:41:05.440
to support this person and be aligned with this person,

702
00:41:05.440 --> 00:41:07.880
because this has become such a big part of my identity,

703
00:41:08.119 --> 00:41:09.679
that I have to find a way to make this

704
00:41:09.719 --> 00:41:12.480
other thing not an issue for me. So I have

705
00:41:12.519 --> 00:41:16.519
to find a way to discount or dismiss or to

706
00:41:16.559 --> 00:41:18.880
be able to reject that, to be able to reject

707
00:41:18.920 --> 00:41:22.039
that premise that he actually might be a sexual predator,

708
00:41:22.400 --> 00:41:25.320
because that is too uncomfortable for me because I'm so

709
00:41:25.440 --> 00:41:28.840
invested in this public persona. I've attached so much of

710
00:41:28.880 --> 00:41:31.559
myself and my own a sense of community and who

711
00:41:31.599 --> 00:41:34.239
I am and what I believe and what I stand

712
00:41:34.280 --> 00:41:38.760
for is so much invested in this that I can't

713
00:41:38.840 --> 00:41:41.679
have that not be true. So I'll find a way

714
00:41:41.800 --> 00:41:44.320
to make it make sense. And you know, this is

715
00:41:44.480 --> 00:41:49.079
just one example like we do these in big and

716
00:41:49.119 --> 00:41:51.599
small ways every day of our lives. We come up

717
00:41:51.639 --> 00:41:56.400
with rationalizations and justifications and excuses to reduce the amount

718
00:41:56.400 --> 00:41:59.880
of cognitive dissonance that we all experience when I behavior

719
00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:04.039
doesn't necessarily line up with our attitudes or our beliefs. So,

720
00:42:04.679 --> 00:42:06.199
like I said, that went on for quite a little

721
00:42:06.199 --> 00:42:08.280
bit longer than what I had intended. A lot to

722
00:42:08.360 --> 00:42:11.440
unpack there. I did start off by saying that I

723
00:42:11.639 --> 00:42:13.719
was it's not about whether I think he's guilty or

724
00:42:13.760 --> 00:42:16.079
he's not. I don't know if I gave away my

725
00:42:16.239 --> 00:42:19.960
own you know, my own initial reaction when I saw

726
00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:22.360
the news, and I don't know what your initial reaction

727
00:42:22.480 --> 00:42:24.480
was when you saw the news. But I think when

728
00:42:24.559 --> 00:42:28.800
we see people who are rallying in support, I think

729
00:42:28.840 --> 00:42:32.440
it can help to have under some understanding for why

730
00:42:32.480 --> 00:42:34.679
that might be the case, for what is going on

731
00:42:34.880 --> 00:42:38.480
with people, because I don't think I don't think it

732
00:42:38.559 --> 00:42:40.840
is at all helpful. And you are not going to

733
00:42:40.880 --> 00:42:46.320
change anybody's mind by calling them a conspiracy theorist, rape apologist.

734
00:42:46.840 --> 00:42:49.159
You know, all of these kinds of accusations that get made,

735
00:42:49.199 --> 00:42:52.400
Those kinds of attacks only make people dig in deeper

736
00:42:52.519 --> 00:42:55.480
like that only often, you know, cause people to kind

737
00:42:55.480 --> 00:42:59.440
of double down on what they believe. So we just

738
00:42:59.480 --> 00:43:01.280
need to you know, be able to find a way

739
00:43:01.320 --> 00:43:05.960
to to understand and to communicate. It's nothing that any

740
00:43:06.000 --> 00:43:08.440
of us have got, you know, at stake. In this

741
00:43:08.480 --> 00:43:10.679
particular case, we will just wait to see how it

742
00:43:10.719 --> 00:43:13.519
plays out. But in other areas of your life where

743
00:43:13.519 --> 00:43:16.599
you see people doubling down or spreading, you know, con

744
00:43:16.760 --> 00:43:21.159
buying into conspiracy theories, or you know, just behaving in

745
00:43:21.199 --> 00:43:23.920
ways that you don't necessarily understand, I hope that that

746
00:43:24.079 --> 00:43:27.320
has just helped you to be able to understand, you know,

747
00:43:27.360 --> 00:43:29.039
why we think the way we do, while we have

748
00:43:29.079 --> 00:43:32.719
the biases that we do, how these ideas get entrenched,

749
00:43:32.800 --> 00:43:35.519
and how they can be so hard to shift. And

750
00:43:35.599 --> 00:43:38.280
even if this is not you, even if this particular,

751
00:43:38.559 --> 00:43:41.639
if you are not a Russell Brand supporter in this case,

752
00:43:41.760 --> 00:43:43.760
I guarantee there'll be somewhere else in your life that

753
00:43:43.800 --> 00:43:46.800
you are doubling down and you know, really holding on

754
00:43:46.840 --> 00:43:49.039
to your beliefs about something that somebody else might have

755
00:43:49.039 --> 00:43:52.039
a completely different belief about. And it's just you know,

756
00:43:52.159 --> 00:43:54.880
worth knowing that we don't all have all the answers.

757
00:43:54.880 --> 00:43:57.920
There is no ultimate truth, and so we've got to

758
00:43:57.960 --> 00:44:02.280
be aware of our own kind of cognitive bias as well. Anyway,

759
00:44:02.559 --> 00:44:04.360
that's enough for me, Glad I've got all of that

760
00:44:04.400 --> 00:44:07.519
off my chest. Interestingly, Elon Musk Andrew Tate were two

761
00:44:07.519 --> 00:44:09.760
people who immediately came out and support of Russell Brand,

762
00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:11.679
but you know what, there's a lot of other people

763
00:44:11.679 --> 00:44:13.239
who came out and support of him who I was

764
00:44:13.360 --> 00:44:15.960
really surprised by. I mean, people who I thought were

765
00:44:16.119 --> 00:44:19.920
really just people that I did not expect have come

766
00:44:19.960 --> 00:44:23.599
out in support and so that's what really astonished me

767
00:44:24.360 --> 00:44:27.760
and had me wanting to talk about it a little bit.

768
00:44:28.000 --> 00:44:31.280
So I hope you found that interesting food for thought.

769
00:44:31.400 --> 00:44:34.480
And next week I've got a really great guest. It

770
00:44:34.599 --> 00:44:36.639
might be a little late next week just because of

771
00:44:36.679 --> 00:44:38.519
timing of my interview and the fact that I'm going

772
00:44:38.559 --> 00:44:42.000
away this week, but I cannot wait to bring you

773
00:44:42.119 --> 00:44:44.400
that one, and I will see you then next week

774
00:44:44.440 --> 00:44:46.000
on another episode of Crappy to have you