March 20, 2023

Simple changes to make now to avoid dementia with Dr Ginni Mansberg

Simple changes to make now to avoid dementia with Dr Ginni Mansberg
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Simple changes to make now to avoid dementia with Dr Ginni Mansberg
Simple changes to make now to avoid dementia with Dr Ginni Mansberg
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Season 9 Women's Health And Wellbeing

Many of us have been touched in some way by dementia. Perhaps you've had Grandparents or parents affected by dementia, or you're worried about your own parents, or yourself.In this conversation, Cass and Dr Ginni Mansberg explore some simple changes you can make now, in your 40s, 50s and 60s, to save your brain.
You can learn more about Dr Ginni at drginni.com.au
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Transcript
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A listener.

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Production doctor Ginny Mansburg is an easily recognized name and

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face if.

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You are from Australia.

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She's a GP in Sydney who also has an extensive

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media career spanning decades. You would have no doubt seen

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her on Channel seven's Sunrise, Embarrassing Bodies down Under on

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Channel nine, or Medicine or Myth on THEESBS. She's also

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voted Australia's most trusted health professional in twenty twenty two.

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She hosts a bunch of her own podcasts. She's written

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a bunch of books, the most recent of which is

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called Save Your Brain, and that is what I am

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talking to her about in today's episode.

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Most of us have.

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Been touched in some way by dementia, and in fact,

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Ginny shares that in twenty twenty two to fifty five

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million people around the globe we're living with dementia. Most

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of us are worried about our loved one, but we're

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also really concerned about our own risk of.

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Developing this disease.

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The good news is that there are things that we

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can do to save our brains, and the time to

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do those things is in our forties, fifties and sixties.

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I could not wait to dive into this with Ginny

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and get the answers to the question how do we

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save our brains? Here is that conversation, Doctor Jenny Mansburg.

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Welcome to the Crappy to Happy Podcast.

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Love being Crappy to Happiness.

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So good, Ginny.

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I was so excited to see the book that you

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have just written all about how to save your brain

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and I couldn't wait to get you on the show

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to talk about it. So I think all of us

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have been touched by dementia, Like everybody that you speak

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to has a parent, a parent and in law a

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grandparent who has experienced dementia. I don't know if it

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is suddenly more I'd spread that it has been before,

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if we're just suddenly more aware of it.

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Can you tell me what is the prevalence of dementia

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the moment?

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Well, the moment, it's the second biggest killer of Australians

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and the biggest killer of women. So it does affect

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four times as many women as men, and of course

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it goes up the older you are and when living longer,

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which is why we're seeing so much more of it

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because Australians in particular you know, and also people all

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over the West world. We are living so much longer,

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and with that, of course increases the odds of getting dementia.

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But it's the biggest cause of death in women, and

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a lot of people don't realize it causes death. It

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actually is a fatal disease.

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Yeah, that's a scary, scary thing. And you talked about

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in the book something like I don't have it off

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the top of my head. You'll know it. Thirty something

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percent of eighty five year old will have dementia.

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Absolutely, and then double that number will have what we

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call mild cognitive impairment. So it's slight in scale, and

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when you hit enough kind of brain loss or brain failure,

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which is how you can think of dementia, it tits

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over from mild cognitive impairment to dementia. So for everyone

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who has dementia, there's another number being that same number

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that are not quite dementia but are on the way.

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So it's when you get to eighty five, your chances

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of having a completely normal, fully functioning brain, you're kind

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of down to around a third.

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Pretty slim chances.

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And of course we're talking about eighty five year olds

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but it normally shows up earlier than that, right, So

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at what point do we start seeing full blown kind

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of dementia.

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So if you get dementia before the age of sixty five,

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it's called early on set. It's unusual to get it

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before the age of sixty five. Most people will start

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to get it in their seventies and eighties. So that's

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the good news because a lot of my patients come

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and see me in their fifties and sixties and say,

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you know, I'm you know, I keep forgetting to turn

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up for coffee with my girlfriend. I think I've got dementia?

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Can you test me for it? So, you know, the

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good news is it's possible, it's unlikely.

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Yes, I think we have all experienced those forgetful moments.

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We've all had those, like I lose words all the time.

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And this is the thing, right, So you're obviously you

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are also known for your work around menopause, and this

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perimenopausal period affects your brain as well, and so we're

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constantly going is this something I should be worried about?

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Is this normal? Is this hormonal? Is that what you

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get as well? With your patients?

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One hundred percent, like we know that when it comes

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to pery menopause, which is your transition into menopause, proper

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eighty percent of women report brain pop. That is a

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ridiculous amount of brain pop. Like that is a ridiculous

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amount of lost brain hour. Amongst women our age, you

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were generally at the peak of their careers, trying to

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juggle like sick parents, a massive career, teenage children who

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are driving you not it's the peak time for divorce,

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and maybe you've got some sort of strain in your relationship,

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and then on top of that, you can't remember to

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go and do the shopping and to make a dinner. So,

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like there's a lot going on for women, and most

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of them think this is it. I'm at the start.

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I'm heading from here straight into dementia seamlessly. It's all

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downhill from here. And the good news is that by

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the time you hit menopause, for the vast majority of women,

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your brain will kind of sort itself out. It is

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really linked to a lot of the other symptoms of

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perry So it's kind of a lot to do with

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particularly insomnia and depression at this stage when you're in

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perimenopause and you're forgetting stuff and he's only a bit

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boggy in the brain, and you'll generally have like a

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nice little window of like amazing brain function until eventually

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you can slip into dementia, if that's what's going to happen.

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But for some women, for a small subset of women,

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it is the beginning to decline, and it is hard

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to know what's happening to you if you're in the

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middle of it.

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Yeah, what's the gender divide, Jenny? Does it affect one

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gender more than the other?

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Yeah? It looks sadly to mention as a women's issue,

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And we initially thought that because it's so common after

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the age of eighty, and more women live into their

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eighties than men. We just thought, listen, it's just because

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more women are living longer, and if you live long enough,

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you eventually get dementia. And that's why it's a women's

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issue rather than a men's issue, because they basically die

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off before they get an opportunity to get the dementia.

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But we know that there are estrogen and progesterone, so

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they're the two principal womens associated with reproduction in women.

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There are receptors for those all over the brain, particularly

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in the centers responsible for higher order thinking and for memory.

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We also know that estron and progesterone both directly act

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as neurotransmitters and heal the brain when it's got a

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brain injury. We also know, and this is really fascinating,

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that for women who go into menopause at forty seven,

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that's not very early. That's not even called early menopause.

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You know, because the average age of menopause in the

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UK and Australia is fifty fifty one. It's getting a

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little bit earlier as we get more migrants into both countries,

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but you know, generally around fifty one. But at forty

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seven that's not early. You know, we're for early menopause

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is forty five and below. But if you go into

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menopause at forty seven or earlier, you have a twenty

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percent higher risk of menopause. And we know that early

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menopause is a significant risk, which is a really interesting

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unless you go on HIT. So that's a super interesting fact.

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So it's definitely something to do with hormones. And so

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the natural question is should we just all go on

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hormone replacement therapy to prevent DEMNTA and the problem is

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we don't have a really good data on that. For

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those of us who hit menopause at kind of UBOLGS

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standard age, I'm fifty four, I haven't quite hit it yet.

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Is there any point in me going on HRT just

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to help my brain out a little bit? So I

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have a hit early menopause? And the evidence is a

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little bit mixed. Some studies have definitely shown that HRT

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does prevent dementia, but there are other studies that have

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actually shown the opposite. Really and in fact, you remember

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that really massive study the Women's Health Initiative. Now you

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might not remember that, but just as to jog everybody's memory,

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back in two thousand and two, there was this huge

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study and it was a really good study. They were

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looking to see whether hormone replacement therapy could prevent a

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whole raft of chronic diseases, but particularly heart disease. And

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so they took women who were an average age of

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sixty three, which I don't know about you, but I

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don't know anybody at sixty three who kind of needs

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to start HRTDN. They didn't ask some of our hot blushes.

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They just put them on either HRT in an old

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form that we don't use anymore, or a placebo, and

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they followed them up and after six years, what they've

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found was that for every ten thousand women who had

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a placebo that got thirty breast cancers, and for every

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ten thousand women who took HART they had SOWD thirty

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eight breast cancers, just thirty percent increased risk, huge but

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an almost a thirty percent increased risk, and they stopped

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the study. They also found slightly high risks of heart

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disease and also dementia in that study, and what they

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have worked out now is that it's all about timing.

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If you wait until your arteries have hardened and your

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body has got used to being without estrogen, and then

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you reintroduce it again, it does more hardening good. It

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looks like from most of the studies, certainly around heart disease,

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definitely around breast cancer, that if you just keep going

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as you hit menopause, you hit the ground money. If

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you start it within a couple of years and while

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your tissues are still soft, your arteries have not hardened yet,

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that in fact, in case of heart disease, it could

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potentially confer some benefits and the same with dementia is

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wow in terms of breast cancer risty, probably neutral. So

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that's just to explain everything that happens, you would. At

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this stage, we don't have the data that says every

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single one of us should go on HRT to prevent dementia,

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but that's possible. We're going to get there at some

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point because that's the way the data is kind of

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heading right now.

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So interesting those of us who have a family member

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like my husband, so my mother in law died of Alzheimer's. Oh, well,

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before we go there, there are different types of dementia.

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We all think about Alzheimer's.

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Is it worth discussing all the different kinds or is

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that really not that relevant?

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We don't do it anymore. And I'll tell you why.

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The way to diagnose the different forms of dementia, and

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there are lots of them, and I've sort of addressed

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them in my book, and I've diffected them all at

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his Parkinson's disease and his lowy body dementia and vascular

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and his But what they've done in autopsy studies is

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that they look to people with Alzheimer's disease and you

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can kind of see Alzheimer's disease. On certain scans, if

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you do an autopsy of them, seventy five percent of

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them also have vascular dementia. But what we know is

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that if you add two types of dementia together, one

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plus one equals more dementia, worse dementia, earlier dementia. And

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in a way, as terrible as that sounds, it's kind

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of good news because that's the stuff you can prevent

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the vascular dementia. Which is what I need by that

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is you've actually damaged your arteries and supply your brain

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all of the nutrients it needs, the beautiful blood, their

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fresh fluids, your nutrients, your oxygen. If you damage those

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arteries so you start your brain, that actually causes untold

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damage to your brain and makes your Alzheimer's worse. Well,

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happy days. We can actually prevent that stuff. That is

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the really good news. The big thing that I think

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what happy to crappy want to know is it's all

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about what you do now. If you wait till you're

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seventy five to start trying to take the trains on

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a different track, you have totally missed that boat. I mean,

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it's sort of never too late to start trying to

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get healthier. Don't get me wrong, But if you really

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want banks to your buck, if you really want to

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prevent dementia, it's what you do in your forties and fifties.

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Then it's just going to make all of the difference.

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And we don't think about it enough, but we've got

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to start. We've got to start doing this now, and

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for free. I'm going to chuck in better mental health,

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less heart attacks, less cancer, you know, so many other

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things that we're going to chuck in for free, less diabetes,

238
00:12:40.159 --> 00:12:42.919
better wait control, all the things that matter to us,

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00:12:43.519 --> 00:12:47.080
for the same price as preventing dementia. Like it's such

240
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a bargain.

241
00:12:48.000 --> 00:12:50.440
Yeah, And I really want to get to all of

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that because what I was going to say earlier was,

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you know, for anybody who has a family history, there's

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this fear that this is inevitable, it's in my genes somehow.

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But obviously what you're presenting is that.

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00:13:02.159 --> 00:13:07.720
A huge proportion of this of the risk factor is lifestyles.

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One hundred percent. Now we now know like there are

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nearly three hundred genes that have been identified for Alzheimer's

249
00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:16.080
disease alone, and there's a really big one that APO

250
00:13:16.240 --> 00:13:20.720
eat little equo, So that's the big gene, and everybody's

251
00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:22.960
sort of studied. And if you have two genes, so

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00:13:23.039 --> 00:13:25.759
one from one and one from dad, really increases your

253
00:13:25.840 --> 00:13:29.639
risk of getting Alzheimer's disease. It's almost an inevitability at

254
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that point. Although like, if you've got dementia at ninety two,

255
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like you kind of could live in it, right if

256
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you started going down the track at that point. But

257
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what we know is that those genes are carried by

258
00:13:41.320 --> 00:13:44.480
a huge number of people in the population with those

259
00:13:44.519 --> 00:13:46.639
genes don't get dementia, and there are a lot of

260
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people without the genes who do get to dementia. But

261
00:13:50.120 --> 00:13:52.200
while so many of us think that if you numbers up,

262
00:13:52.320 --> 00:13:55.120
numbers up in dementia is just something that can't be prevented,

263
00:13:55.919 --> 00:13:58.120
nothing could be further from the truth. And back to

264
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Australian data suggests bird of dementia could be prevented altogether.

265
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And even if you can't prevent it all together, if

266
00:14:05.840 --> 00:14:08.360
you could push it out by like ten, fifteen, twenty

267
00:14:08.440 --> 00:14:12.000
years and you get that extra time with your family

268
00:14:12.240 --> 00:14:16.080
at work contributing, like, is that not a no brainer?

269
00:14:16.120 --> 00:14:18.519
I think it's a bit of a no brainer. But

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00:14:18.720 --> 00:14:21.279
there's no point waiting till your only sixties and seventies.

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You've got to start earlier to actually prevent dementia.

272
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That's the key.

273
00:14:25.279 --> 00:14:27.960
So, Ginny, one thing that I've just heard around the place,

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00:14:28.039 --> 00:14:29.559
and I know you address this in your book, is

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00:14:29.600 --> 00:14:35.080
like this this idea of gut health and inflammation Alzheimer's

276
00:14:35.120 --> 00:14:39.440
being like an autoimmune condition that I don't know if

277
00:14:39.519 --> 00:14:42.440
am I saying that correctly? What can we do as

278
00:14:42.480 --> 00:14:45.279
far as diet and is concerned? How much of a

279
00:14:45.399 --> 00:14:46.039
factor is that?

280
00:14:48.000 --> 00:14:51.840
So what we have never done is put people on

281
00:14:52.039 --> 00:14:57.679
a prospective trial and randomize them and said, you guys

282
00:14:57.679 --> 00:15:00.440
got a Mediterranean type, you guys do a kido, you

283
00:15:00.440 --> 00:15:04.360
guys go vegetarian, and we'll keep following you up and

284
00:15:04.399 --> 00:15:08.000
doing brain scans and blood tests, and in fortieth time

285
00:15:08.039 --> 00:15:10.600
we'll see how you go, and we'll compare like with like.

286
00:15:10.679 --> 00:15:15.120
So we've got to look at different studies often asking

287
00:15:15.159 --> 00:15:18.960
people to recall what they've eaten, and we are all

288
00:15:19.000 --> 00:15:23.559
notoriously bad at remembering what we ate yesterday, let alone

289
00:15:23.960 --> 00:15:27.159
a year ago. And I know with my patients, I'll

290
00:15:27.200 --> 00:15:30.039
say to them, so, what's your diet like, and I'll go, oh,

291
00:15:30.720 --> 00:15:32.639
fish and salad. Fish and salad is what I hear

292
00:15:32.720 --> 00:15:35.000
every single day. You know, if you've got a body

293
00:15:35.000 --> 00:15:37.559
mass index of over forty, which let's just say that's

294
00:15:37.679 --> 00:15:40.759
very bar I'm not calling you a liar, but there's

295
00:15:40.840 --> 00:15:42.600
something that's escaping your memories.

296
00:15:42.600 --> 00:15:44.399
It's something in addition to the fish and something.

297
00:15:45.240 --> 00:15:47.480
There is a little bit more happening than the fish

298
00:15:47.480 --> 00:15:50.639
and salad, and you genuinely don't don't remember it, but

299
00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:53.039
it's going down the hatch. And I think what happens

300
00:15:53.120 --> 00:15:55.840
is we give ourselves permission, because we think we eat

301
00:15:55.840 --> 00:15:58.799
nothing but fish and salad, to just have an occasional chocolate,

302
00:15:58.879 --> 00:16:03.279
an occasional coke or occasional McDonald's, and don't realize that

303
00:16:03.279 --> 00:16:05.679
that's become like a second daily event. And that's why

304
00:16:05.720 --> 00:16:08.080
you're getting weight same you think with these kind of

305
00:16:08.120 --> 00:16:12.360
trials around, you know, diet. So now that I've heavily

306
00:16:12.519 --> 00:16:15.480
shoved all the cadets on top of it, I can

307
00:16:15.559 --> 00:16:19.799
tell you that it kind of doesn't matter. All good

308
00:16:20.080 --> 00:16:25.000
diets contribute to less dementia, all of them. I don't

309
00:16:25.039 --> 00:16:27.440
care if you want to do a Mediterranean diet there's

310
00:16:27.519 --> 00:16:30.519
even evidence for a keto diet. It's not my favorite diet.

311
00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:32.799
It makes me very constipated. It can give you very

312
00:16:32.799 --> 00:16:36.320
bad bread, it can give you keto rage. And you know,

313
00:16:36.480 --> 00:16:38.919
if you have not great kidney function, that can put

314
00:16:38.919 --> 00:16:41.039
a lot of strain on your kidneys. But if you

315
00:16:41.159 --> 00:16:42.519
like a keto diet.

316
00:16:42.399 --> 00:16:45.720
There's evidence for Thataria Ginny, I just find the keto

317
00:16:45.799 --> 00:16:47.840
is just really hard to sustain.

318
00:16:49.360 --> 00:16:51.200
Yeah, I mean I had to tap out. I mean,

319
00:16:51.320 --> 00:16:53.399
and I can't even do time restricted diet because I

320
00:16:53.440 --> 00:16:55.840
just get too hang grand. Then my poor patients are

321
00:16:55.879 --> 00:16:59.159
likely to get an ABU simple interruption, which is just

322
00:16:59.200 --> 00:17:03.679
some good I feel like we can split hairs between

323
00:17:03.679 --> 00:17:06.279
Have you ever heard of this mind diet only in

324
00:17:06.319 --> 00:17:11.400
your book? Yeah, So the mind diet is specifically formulated

325
00:17:11.680 --> 00:17:15.440
to take some of the things of the Mediterranean diet

326
00:17:15.519 --> 00:17:19.079
and adapt it a little bit, specifically to prevent Alzheimer's disease.

327
00:17:19.519 --> 00:17:21.839
But like, rather than just giving you free rain or

328
00:17:21.839 --> 00:17:23.920
whatever veggies you wanted, you need to have like four

329
00:17:23.920 --> 00:17:26.799
to six serves of green leafy vegetables a day. I'm

330
00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:29.000
dying at the thought of this. And you can have

331
00:17:29.079 --> 00:17:31.599
lots and lots of berries, the Mediterranean lets you have

332
00:17:31.720 --> 00:17:34.079
red wine? Oh no, not with the mind diet. You're

333
00:17:34.119 --> 00:17:35.960
not having the red wine on the mind diet. So

334
00:17:36.160 --> 00:17:38.359
on every level, I'm just like tapping out. It's just

335
00:17:38.359 --> 00:17:41.720
not for me, right, But I'm not dogmatic about what

336
00:17:41.799 --> 00:17:43.559
diet you do. But I can tell you what's not

337
00:17:43.599 --> 00:17:45.440
going to work. It's not going to work as eating

338
00:17:45.480 --> 00:17:47.799
macas every day. What's not going to work as having

339
00:17:47.880 --> 00:17:52.640
chocolate and chips and having your soft drinks every day.

340
00:17:52.799 --> 00:17:56.200
Like that stuff is not only going to give you dementia,

341
00:17:56.240 --> 00:17:58.319
it's also going to give you depression. And it's also

342
00:17:58.559 --> 00:18:00.640
and then the depression is going to make your dementia worse.

343
00:18:00.720 --> 00:18:02.000
And it's going to give you a heart disease, and

344
00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:04.400
your heart disease will make dementia worse. Like, there are

345
00:18:04.440 --> 00:18:07.039
just so many levels on which having a bad diet

346
00:18:07.640 --> 00:18:09.680
is bad for you. And if you're in a split

347
00:18:09.680 --> 00:18:12.200
hairs about whether you have Brussels sprouts or collea flower,

348
00:18:12.200 --> 00:18:13.720
you're in a really good space. Don't worry about it.

349
00:18:13.759 --> 00:18:14.160
You're fine.

350
00:18:15.359 --> 00:18:16.640
I love your honesty, Ginny.

351
00:18:16.839 --> 00:18:19.000
I love that when you present these options, you're very

352
00:18:19.000 --> 00:18:22.759
realistic about what is going to be workable for most people,

353
00:18:23.000 --> 00:18:23.839
yourself included.

354
00:18:24.720 --> 00:18:26.000
So healthy diet is.

355
00:18:25.960 --> 00:18:28.759
One thing we can all we can all do, we

356
00:18:28.799 --> 00:18:31.400
can all implement. So what are some of the other

357
00:18:31.480 --> 00:18:36.240
things that we know for sure are likely to reduce

358
00:18:36.640 --> 00:18:38.000
your risk of dementia?

359
00:18:39.759 --> 00:18:42.680
Okay, so not all of these are going to be

360
00:18:43.319 --> 00:18:46.599
like people champion it the bit to like get off

361
00:18:46.599 --> 00:18:49.160
the couch and run and do DC. But if you're

362
00:18:49.200 --> 00:18:50.960
the sort of person who's gone to the doctor and

363
00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:54.279
the doctor's gone, what pressure is a little bit high,

364
00:18:54.319 --> 00:18:56.839
and then they mention it again when you see them

365
00:18:56.839 --> 00:18:59.559
again in six nine, can I tell you that the

366
00:18:59.680 --> 00:19:03.160
data in now in we now know for sure that

367
00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:06.319
the higher your blood pressure, the higher risk of dementia. True,

368
00:19:06.319 --> 00:19:08.799
and that the targets that we have had until now,

369
00:19:09.240 --> 00:19:11.519
which is the top number that we call the systolic

370
00:19:11.559 --> 00:19:14.279
blood pressure we used to say when I was in

371
00:19:14.319 --> 00:19:16.160
medical school was one hundred plus your age. So if

372
00:19:16.200 --> 00:19:19.559
you're forty, so my age at fifty four, I could

373
00:19:19.559 --> 00:19:22.240
have a one hundred and fifty systolic blood pressure. Well

374
00:19:22.440 --> 00:19:24.480
that's just definitely not all we know. We need to

375
00:19:24.519 --> 00:19:27.279
be actually aiming for a one hundred and twenty systolic

376
00:19:27.279 --> 00:19:30.880
blood pressure. If you have been given a prescription for

377
00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:34.359
a blood pressure medication and just like whatever, not taking

378
00:19:34.359 --> 00:19:37.880
it pol not good. I would be taking it. And

379
00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:40.200
if someone has made a passing comment that your blood

380
00:19:40.200 --> 00:19:43.079
pressure is a little bit high, and again you just

381
00:19:43.119 --> 00:19:46.480
haven't taken it seriously, I would say, hang on, go

382
00:19:46.559 --> 00:19:48.799
and get yourself a blood pressure and monitor. They are

383
00:19:48.839 --> 00:19:51.400
not that expensive, and I would go and get it

384
00:19:51.559 --> 00:19:54.359
monitored and actually follow it up because you want your

385
00:19:54.359 --> 00:19:57.240
blood pressure as well as possible. That's step one. Step

386
00:19:57.279 --> 00:20:00.720
number two. None of us want to be in the

387
00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:03.839
heart of hearing category because let's face it, it makes you

388
00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:06.240
feel old and you can go to a restaurant and

389
00:20:06.279 --> 00:20:08.240
basically not be able to hear anybody at the restaurant

390
00:20:08.319 --> 00:20:11.519
and you feel old, and nobody wants a hearing aid.

391
00:20:11.880 --> 00:20:15.480
But the studies are definitely in that being death is

392
00:20:15.880 --> 00:20:18.599
very bad for your brain, and that having a hearing

393
00:20:18.640 --> 00:20:21.039
aid if you are death is excellent for your brain.

394
00:20:22.200 --> 00:20:24.519
The third thing that I'm going to say, and this

395
00:20:24.559 --> 00:20:30.240
will really cast resonate with you, is that depression is

396
00:20:30.359 --> 00:20:33.599
bad for your brain. It shrinks your brain. And there

397
00:20:33.599 --> 00:20:36.319
are so many people who are in denial about what

398
00:20:36.480 --> 00:20:40.839
is happening with their mental health. They are very biased

399
00:20:40.960 --> 00:20:43.640
against people who get treatments for mental health. They are

400
00:20:44.519 --> 00:20:47.599
quite self flagellating and think you should just be able

401
00:20:47.640 --> 00:20:49.319
to snap out of it, and you should just be

402
00:20:49.359 --> 00:20:52.559
able to You're weak if you have poor mental health.

403
00:20:53.319 --> 00:20:55.799
You really need to get over that. You need to

404
00:20:55.920 --> 00:21:02.720
accept embrace the help you have. Depression in shrinking your brain.

405
00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:06.319
Every day that you are depressed is bad for your cognition.

406
00:21:06.759 --> 00:21:10.440
It brings you closer to dementia. And you can see

407
00:21:10.519 --> 00:21:14.400
treatment for depression as a measure to prevent an even

408
00:21:14.480 --> 00:21:20.240
reverse dementia. And that's really critical, particularly for women in midlife,

409
00:21:20.640 --> 00:21:22.759
because those of us like you and I, who are

410
00:21:22.759 --> 00:21:25.279
in mid life, one in three of us will get

411
00:21:25.279 --> 00:21:29.359
anxiety and depression at this time, particularly around perimenopause. It

412
00:21:29.440 --> 00:21:32.079
is peak time for suicide for women between forty five

413
00:21:32.119 --> 00:21:35.000
and fifty five. We are not getting the help that

414
00:21:35.039 --> 00:21:37.519
we need. We see it as weakness. We have got

415
00:21:37.559 --> 00:21:41.079
to get over that because it is so critical for

416
00:21:41.200 --> 00:21:45.519
the people around us to save our marriages, our partnerships,

417
00:21:45.720 --> 00:21:47.599
for the sake of our children, for the sake of

418
00:21:47.599 --> 00:21:51.799
our careers. You can have torrential, horrible fights to people

419
00:21:51.799 --> 00:21:54.720
at work because you are just not yourself and then

420
00:21:55.039 --> 00:21:57.799
down the track you're going to get dementia much much

421
00:21:57.799 --> 00:22:02.039
more profoundly. I would really urge everybody just to accept

422
00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:06.640
and be okay with asking for help. And the floord

423
00:22:06.680 --> 00:22:08.680
thing that I'm going to say is, once you fix

424
00:22:08.720 --> 00:22:12.319
your mental health, stay in the workforce, because we know

425
00:22:12.559 --> 00:22:15.119
that staying in the workforce is actually a really interesting

426
00:22:15.160 --> 00:22:18.279
one because it actually does help you stay younger in

427
00:22:18.359 --> 00:22:21.839
the brain Pew reasons Number one. Most of us tend

428
00:22:21.880 --> 00:22:24.920
to be quite social in the workplace, and don't think

429
00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:27.920
you need to have an intellectually challenging job. If we

430
00:22:27.960 --> 00:22:31.359
can be very snooty about you know, I don't care

431
00:22:31.680 --> 00:22:34.519
if you are holding a stop go sign. I don't

432
00:22:34.519 --> 00:22:37.920
care if you are checking people out at a supermarket.

433
00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:41.160
That is great. It's great for your brain because you're chatting,

434
00:22:41.480 --> 00:22:43.559
you're talking, You're having to think about the things that

435
00:22:43.599 --> 00:22:48.079
you're doing. You're having to maintain a certain circadian rhythm.

436
00:22:48.200 --> 00:22:50.240
So we know that you're having to get up the

437
00:22:50.279 --> 00:22:52.400
same time every day, have a shower the same time

438
00:22:52.400 --> 00:22:55.759
every day, have your breakfast, your lunch, your dinner at

439
00:22:55.799 --> 00:22:57.920
particular times during the day. That's going to be good

440
00:22:57.960 --> 00:23:01.240
for your sleep. We know that one to go into retirement,

441
00:23:01.480 --> 00:23:04.079
all of your circadian rhythms all go out the window.

442
00:23:04.640 --> 00:23:08.079
And we think we're going to take up Portuguese and

443
00:23:08.119 --> 00:23:11.119
start doing backgam and then we're going to learn, you know,

444
00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:14.079
of secure Russian poetry. We don't. You tend to just

445
00:23:14.119 --> 00:23:16.759
do nothing and your days like just become about a

446
00:23:16.839 --> 00:23:19.400
day at the supermarket, and that is really bad for

447
00:23:19.440 --> 00:23:22.039
your brain. So even if I think it will be

448
00:23:22.119 --> 00:23:24.759
some people who are retrenched and don't have that option

449
00:23:24.880 --> 00:23:26.960
to stay in the workplace the way they wanted to,

450
00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:30.839
particularly if they're depressed, that has a big impact on

451
00:23:30.880 --> 00:23:33.519
your confidence and that confidence. Cliff can just see a

452
00:23:33.559 --> 00:23:36.160
lot of women in particular just hit a wall and

453
00:23:36.200 --> 00:23:39.079
sky on'em out. I'm quitting, and then can't find their

454
00:23:39.119 --> 00:23:43.559
way back into the workforce. Volunteer, do whatever you need

455
00:23:43.640 --> 00:23:46.599
to do to keep a regular routine and a regular

456
00:23:46.680 --> 00:23:49.319
rhythm to your day, even if it's not in the

457
00:23:49.359 --> 00:23:51.920
paid work force. My preference is the paid workforce because

458
00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:54.640
you notice something every day. Mun's learn some money for it.

459
00:23:54.680 --> 00:23:59.240
But I would try and remain engaged and live a

460
00:23:59.279 --> 00:24:03.119
life of meaning purpose as long as you possibly possibly

461
00:24:03.160 --> 00:24:04.799
can there might be quotips.

462
00:24:08.359 --> 00:24:11.640
I hope that you're enjoying this conversation and realizing the

463
00:24:11.680 --> 00:24:14.599
benefits of positivity in your own life. If you are

464
00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:17.440
enjoying the show, please be sure to like and subscribe

465
00:24:17.440 --> 00:24:19.759
so that you get notified when you EPPS drop and

466
00:24:19.880 --> 00:24:22.240
head on over to Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen

467
00:24:22.359 --> 00:24:22.839
and leave.

468
00:24:22.720 --> 00:24:23.799
Us a rating and review.

469
00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:34.680
I was really interested in what you said about depression, Ginny,

470
00:24:34.720 --> 00:24:38.079
because I remember when I was studying my psychology degree

471
00:24:38.119 --> 00:24:41.880
way back when you know you have to study geriatric psychology,

472
00:24:41.880 --> 00:24:44.640
and what they say is that depression in older people

473
00:24:44.720 --> 00:24:51.200
can look like dementia, like depression mimics cognitive decline. Is

474
00:24:51.200 --> 00:24:53.880
that still kind of the case or is it that

475
00:24:54.079 --> 00:24:55.599
the depression is causing it?

476
00:24:56.079 --> 00:24:58.680
A little bit of both. So we know that in

477
00:24:59.039 --> 00:25:05.240
older onset dementia because personality changers come along with the forgetfulness,

478
00:25:05.240 --> 00:25:07.000
which I think is what everybody thinks of when they

479
00:25:07.000 --> 00:25:09.920
think of dementia. A lot of people can have a

480
00:25:09.960 --> 00:25:13.480
severe about of depression for the first time at let's

481
00:25:13.480 --> 00:25:17.240
say seventy five, and you know, Mum just all of

482
00:25:17.279 --> 00:25:19.640
a sudden doesn't go to book club anymore, doesn't go

483
00:25:19.680 --> 00:25:23.559
to bridge, doesn't do much, just sits around and watches television,

484
00:25:23.640 --> 00:25:26.599
seems to be disengaged, doesn't qutch up with their girlfriends anymore,

485
00:25:26.960 --> 00:25:29.559
And we don't necessarily see what's going on until it

486
00:25:29.599 --> 00:25:32.880
eventually declares its hand. And it's obviously was the first

487
00:25:32.920 --> 00:25:36.359
signs of dementia. And that's very, very very common. What

488
00:25:36.400 --> 00:25:39.119
we tend to say when it comes to distinguishing a

489
00:25:39.279 --> 00:25:43.440
dementia that is presenting as a mood disorder versus a depression,

490
00:25:44.079 --> 00:25:46.440
is that somebody who's depressed, if you say to them,

491
00:25:47.039 --> 00:25:50.440
what's five plus five, they'll say, oh, I don't know,

492
00:25:50.480 --> 00:25:52.880
I can't be bothered, Whereas the person who's just got

493
00:25:52.880 --> 00:25:56.920
dementia will go they'll actually try and answer, and they'll

494
00:25:56.920 --> 00:25:59.000
give you a wrong question and then get quite defensive

495
00:25:59.039 --> 00:26:00.680
about the fact that you must be wrong if you

496
00:26:00.759 --> 00:26:04.920
tell them they're wrong. So people with dementia often they

497
00:26:04.960 --> 00:26:07.720
are quite defensive. And very few people come to me

498
00:26:07.759 --> 00:26:09.480
and say I think I've got dementia and I go, yeah,

499
00:26:09.480 --> 00:26:12.119
I think I agree. Mostly it's their family members will

500
00:26:12.119 --> 00:26:14.400
bring them in and go. Was just reprieting herself all

501
00:26:14.440 --> 00:26:18.319
the time, and she got lost yesterday at the shopping

502
00:26:18.359 --> 00:26:22.599
center and couldn't get home. And that's the sort of

503
00:26:22.599 --> 00:26:25.240
thing where the family members noticed that the house was

504
00:26:25.279 --> 00:26:27.359
a bit of a mess. Shouldn't seem to be doing

505
00:26:27.359 --> 00:26:29.519
the washing or it seems you know. That kind of

506
00:26:29.559 --> 00:26:32.839
thing is what the family members will pick up and

507
00:26:32.960 --> 00:26:34.839
Mum sitting and going, there's something wrong with me. You're

508
00:26:34.880 --> 00:26:38.119
the one who's just you've got problems, you're issues, and

509
00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:41.559
whereas the depressed person will be the one presenting for

510
00:26:41.640 --> 00:26:45.559
the saying I'm forgetting everything and not even trying to

511
00:26:45.680 --> 00:26:49.480
answer a question. We used to think that the dementia

512
00:26:50.240 --> 00:26:54.400
pausing depression was the big issue in psychogeriatrics. We now

513
00:26:54.440 --> 00:26:56.839
know that depression in mid life is a huge risk

514
00:26:57.599 --> 00:27:00.599
for dementia and it's partly driven by the changes in

515
00:27:00.599 --> 00:27:04.039
cicadian rhythms. A lot of people with depression don't sleep well, yes,

516
00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:06.400
and we know that a lack of sleep will definitely

517
00:27:06.480 --> 00:27:10.599
contribute to dementia. But the depression itself, you can actually

518
00:27:10.640 --> 00:27:14.720
scan people's brains and watch their amigndala and hippocampus actually

519
00:27:14.759 --> 00:27:18.279
start to shrink, because that's what depression does. It's a

520
00:27:18.319 --> 00:27:19.440
brain shrinking disease.

521
00:27:20.279 --> 00:27:21.920
Yeah, wow, that's so interesting.

522
00:27:22.839 --> 00:27:25.200
The other thing that I found really interesting, Ginny in

523
00:27:25.240 --> 00:27:26.960
your book in terms of the things we can do

524
00:27:27.039 --> 00:27:30.680
to prevent dementia, gardening, of all things, can we talk

525
00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:31.400
about gardening?

526
00:27:32.440 --> 00:27:36.759
Yeah, yeah. So there was a really great study out

527
00:27:36.759 --> 00:27:40.000
of Dubbo that looked a different wine intake, which was

528
00:27:40.079 --> 00:27:43.319
quite good. So any alcohol taking that double studies seem

529
00:27:43.400 --> 00:27:46.599
to be protective, which I love personally. But in terms

530
00:27:46.680 --> 00:27:50.640
of exercise, which is very interesting, is actually really hard

531
00:27:50.680 --> 00:27:55.119
to find conclusive proof that any exercise actually prevents dementia.

532
00:27:55.160 --> 00:27:58.920
Even though we know that exercise will help prevent heart disease,

533
00:27:58.960 --> 00:28:02.000
and it's good for depression, and it's good for blood pressure,

534
00:28:02.039 --> 00:28:04.480
it's good for diabetes, and all of those things individually

535
00:28:04.519 --> 00:28:09.079
contribute to you know, particularly DA vascular dementia. But really

536
00:28:09.119 --> 00:28:13.720
hard to actually find good studies that demonstrate a really

537
00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:18.519
big difference from exercising in terms of preventing dementia. I'm

538
00:28:18.559 --> 00:28:20.720
not saying not to do it, but the studies show

539
00:28:21.119 --> 00:28:24.480
very small differences. But the Dubos study actually showed that

540
00:28:24.559 --> 00:28:28.440
if you compare things like dancing and walking, actually the

541
00:28:28.440 --> 00:28:32.160
best exercise for preventing dementia is gardening. And there are

542
00:28:32.200 --> 00:28:34.759
quite a few theories around that, but it looks like

543
00:28:35.200 --> 00:28:39.400
it's partly the rigorous exercise. It also could be that

544
00:28:39.440 --> 00:28:42.880
people who own a garden are possibly slightly wealthier than

545
00:28:42.920 --> 00:28:47.079
people who maybe you live in an apartment block that's urban,

546
00:28:47.559 --> 00:28:49.200
and so that could be part of it as well,

547
00:28:49.240 --> 00:28:51.680
because in an apartment, if you are poorer, we know

548
00:28:51.799 --> 00:28:53.759
that you have much higher rates of a whole lot

549
00:28:53.759 --> 00:28:57.359
of preventable diseases. But the other thing is it's exposure

550
00:28:57.400 --> 00:28:59.640
to nature and exposure to greener rich which is so

551
00:28:59.680 --> 00:29:02.359
good your brain. And we know that on so many levels.

552
00:29:02.359 --> 00:29:05.640
We have lots of studies that link exposure to nature

553
00:29:05.680 --> 00:29:08.400
with better mental health. I know for myself when I

554
00:29:08.440 --> 00:29:11.480
go on holidays, I'm not as keen to go into

555
00:29:11.640 --> 00:29:15.640
an urban setting and just go immerse myself in New

556
00:29:15.759 --> 00:29:20.599
York or Paris. I know their great cities, and I'm

557
00:29:20.640 --> 00:29:22.119
going to go to New York one day, but I

558
00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:24.359
would prefer to go hiking and just be out in

559
00:29:24.519 --> 00:29:27.680
nature because to me, I can just feel my brain

560
00:29:27.880 --> 00:29:32.480
just relaxing. It's a very very good seeing for your

561
00:29:32.559 --> 00:29:35.160
mind and for your body to be exposed to greenery.

562
00:29:35.720 --> 00:29:39.079
And it seems that gardening combines that exposure to nature

563
00:29:39.480 --> 00:29:43.279
and plants in greenery with that bit of vigorous exercise

564
00:29:43.400 --> 00:29:46.839
as well, So that's possibly that's a theory. At any rate.

565
00:29:47.920 --> 00:29:50.359
I took my dogs out for a walk yesterday, brought

566
00:29:50.359 --> 00:29:52.160
out to dogs with us to the UK, and we

567
00:29:52.200 --> 00:29:54.039
are living in a very built up area at the moment.

568
00:29:54.079 --> 00:29:57.240
I live in a skyscraper. The weather's pretty crappy outside

569
00:29:57.400 --> 00:29:59.720
a lot of the time here in London, and I

570
00:29:59.799 --> 00:30:02.640
will my dogs and thought, I'm so glad to have

571
00:30:02.680 --> 00:30:05.119
these dogs because they forced me to get outside. It

572
00:30:05.119 --> 00:30:08.640
doesn't matter what the weather, rain, snow, we have to

573
00:30:08.680 --> 00:30:10.880
take them out. They forced me to get that green

574
00:30:10.920 --> 00:30:14.119
space and I feel better every single time, regardless of

575
00:30:14.160 --> 00:30:16.119
the weather. And I know that if I didn't have them,

576
00:30:16.160 --> 00:30:18.839
there's no way I would walk out in the pouring rain.

577
00:30:19.200 --> 00:30:19.839
But I do.

578
00:30:20.480 --> 00:30:23.279
So are there benefits of having a pet too? Just

579
00:30:23.440 --> 00:30:26.720
for that, like for that having to get out there.

580
00:30:26.799 --> 00:30:30.359
So the pet ownership has been studied in smaller studies

581
00:30:30.359 --> 00:30:33.480
in relation to like cardiovascular eiskin, stroke, ory skin things

582
00:30:33.519 --> 00:30:37.640
like that, and the assumption is that, yes, pet ownership

583
00:30:37.680 --> 00:30:39.680
does seem to matter for you. But one of the

584
00:30:39.680 --> 00:30:42.039
things that pet ownership does as well is. It does

585
00:30:42.079 --> 00:30:45.480
give you a genuine connectedness, and particularly if you are

586
00:30:46.119 --> 00:30:49.119
if you live alone or if you are in a

587
00:30:49.119 --> 00:30:51.559
community at times where you feel a little bit disconnected

588
00:30:51.599 --> 00:30:54.920
from others, your dog in particular, and if it even cats.

589
00:30:54.920 --> 00:30:58.720
I think people underestimate how loving cats are. I love

590
00:30:58.759 --> 00:31:01.920
cats too, but they sort if they really make you

591
00:31:01.960 --> 00:31:04.640
feel connected. And I know it for myself. When I

592
00:31:04.680 --> 00:31:08.519
walk my dogs, I just they are so happy, and

593
00:31:08.880 --> 00:31:14.160
happiness is so contagious and I and you know, they

594
00:31:14.319 --> 00:31:16.799
just smile as they're like, we live very close to

595
00:31:16.799 --> 00:31:18.759
a park, so they just run around this park with

596
00:31:18.799 --> 00:31:22.200
these enormous grims on their face. I like, how can

597
00:31:22.240 --> 00:31:24.960
you not feel happy when you just see these happy

598
00:31:25.000 --> 00:31:28.480
dogs just they're wagging their tails and running around. They're

599
00:31:28.480 --> 00:31:31.000
just having such a good time. And it just does

600
00:31:31.079 --> 00:31:32.640
make you surel good. It gives you a spring in

601
00:31:32.680 --> 00:31:35.839
your step. You do walk a bit bath because you're

602
00:31:35.880 --> 00:31:39.359
excited to be around these little things. So I really

603
00:31:39.400 --> 00:31:43.160
recommend pet ownership for a number of reasons. Also because

604
00:31:43.160 --> 00:31:46.000
it's that human touch, you know, and also because they

605
00:31:46.039 --> 00:31:49.000
get you up in the morning, yes, you know they do,

606
00:31:49.119 --> 00:31:52.000
and they help you keep that circadian rhythm because you

607
00:31:52.039 --> 00:31:55.000
know you ain't sleep until ten am. If you've got

608
00:31:55.000 --> 00:31:57.400
a dog or a cat, they gonna be out you

609
00:31:57.519 --> 00:31:57.920
for food.

610
00:31:58.000 --> 00:32:01.640
It's so true, so true, And you made the point there, Jinny.

611
00:32:01.680 --> 00:32:05.119
About social connectedness, I wrote my third book was about

612
00:32:05.559 --> 00:32:10.119
improving your social connections and really dug into the impact

613
00:32:10.160 --> 00:32:14.920
of social isolation and loneliness on mental health and physical health.

614
00:32:15.039 --> 00:32:20.079
I'm assuming dementia comes into that as well.

615
00:32:18.799 --> 00:32:22.720
One hundred percent. So socializing is a really big preventor

616
00:32:22.839 --> 00:32:27.720
of dementia. And it's really interesting. It doesn't need to

617
00:32:27.839 --> 00:32:31.559
be deep and meaningful, poor your heart out, beaus. Some

618
00:32:31.640 --> 00:32:33.839
of my patients will say to me, I'm just not

619
00:32:33.960 --> 00:32:37.079
that kind of person, and I really get that social

620
00:32:37.119 --> 00:32:40.119
connectedness as Cassie or the expert on this, But it

621
00:32:40.160 --> 00:32:42.079
can just be sitting on a couch next to somebody

622
00:32:42.079 --> 00:32:45.759
and feeling really comfortable. That can be social connectedness. It

623
00:32:45.799 --> 00:32:48.920
can just be somebody that you send a text message

624
00:32:48.960 --> 00:32:52.359
with warm and fuzzy feelings, you know, a nice emoji

625
00:32:52.440 --> 00:32:55.240
to somebody can make you feel really connected. You can

626
00:32:55.279 --> 00:32:57.759
be at work and you can just have a laugh

627
00:32:57.799 --> 00:32:59.759
for some of you or share a joke at the

628
00:33:00.400 --> 00:33:04.160
at work, and that will it's just it doesn't need

629
00:33:04.200 --> 00:33:07.519
to be that difficult. But what I would encourage everybody

630
00:33:07.559 --> 00:33:10.960
to do who's feeling maybe a little bit lonely right now,

631
00:33:11.119 --> 00:33:13.759
is when you go to a shop and somebody is

632
00:33:13.759 --> 00:33:15.920
helping to check out your groceries, why don't you make

633
00:33:15.960 --> 00:33:19.640
eye contact with them and just see if you can connect,

634
00:33:19.839 --> 00:33:23.319
ever so briefly with that person. But that's so good

635
00:33:23.359 --> 00:33:25.920
for your brain and so good for your soul. And

636
00:33:25.960 --> 00:33:28.039
you can see most of us. If you take a

637
00:33:28.079 --> 00:33:30.680
load to everybody that you see in the street, few

638
00:33:30.680 --> 00:33:33.279
people will be very gruff or treat you like an idiot.

639
00:33:34.519 --> 00:33:36.440
She will say hello back and smile at you and

640
00:33:36.799 --> 00:33:39.920
lift your mood, and you can actually make the briefest

641
00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:43.319
of social connections. But they are so good for your brain.

642
00:33:43.720 --> 00:33:45.599
But one of the reasons why staying in the workforce

643
00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:47.680
is really good, yeah, because some of us, as we

644
00:33:47.720 --> 00:33:52.160
get older, it's hard to maintain friendships. People move. You

645
00:33:52.319 --> 00:33:55.880
move to London. My brothers moved to Melbourne. Like older

646
00:33:55.880 --> 00:33:59.279
family members pass away. This is our children move out

647
00:33:59.279 --> 00:34:02.039
of home. So you've got to work harder to get

648
00:34:02.079 --> 00:34:05.400
your social connectedness. So it's those little moments you don't

649
00:34:05.440 --> 00:34:07.559
have to make a patchwork quilt of lots of little

650
00:34:07.640 --> 00:34:09.719
moments of connecting it and a lot of those from

651
00:34:09.760 --> 00:34:10.280
work as.

652
00:34:10.159 --> 00:34:13.119
Well, And that's really interesting, Ginny.

653
00:34:13.320 --> 00:34:16.199
I think number one the point I would really emphasize

654
00:34:16.239 --> 00:34:19.000
there is the power of those micro moments of connection.

655
00:34:19.079 --> 00:34:20.960
I've seen some really interesting studies in.

656
00:34:21.000 --> 00:34:23.760
Psychology as well about the impact that that has on

657
00:34:23.800 --> 00:34:28.760
your whole physical, your cellular health. Just those eye contact moments.

658
00:34:28.760 --> 00:34:33.639
They don't have to be you know, huge big social events,

659
00:34:34.280 --> 00:34:35.960
just those micro moments of connection.

660
00:34:36.760 --> 00:34:38.840
But also this whole staying in.

661
00:34:38.760 --> 00:34:41.880
The workplace, whatever the job is, it doesn't have to

662
00:34:41.920 --> 00:34:45.400
be intellectually challenging at all. So this brings me to

663
00:34:46.280 --> 00:34:49.719
how important is it to be doing like stimulating our brain,

664
00:34:49.880 --> 00:34:52.760
like doing the Sodoku puzzles or the crosswords or whatever

665
00:34:52.800 --> 00:34:55.159
it is to keep our brain active.

666
00:34:56.320 --> 00:35:00.559
So there's a whole industry cass that has throw on

667
00:35:00.679 --> 00:35:03.440
telling people that they need to do this or that

668
00:35:03.480 --> 00:35:06.280
particular puzzle that's an app online that you need to

669
00:35:06.320 --> 00:35:10.960
download and pay for and once you mastered that, you've

670
00:35:11.000 --> 00:35:14.280
mastered it, and there's no further dividends from doing it.

671
00:35:14.760 --> 00:35:17.119
What we know you should be doing is just continuing

672
00:35:17.119 --> 00:35:19.119
to challenge your brain, because what that does is your

673
00:35:19.119 --> 00:35:22.679
brain will build new connections between different parts of the brain,

674
00:35:23.079 --> 00:35:26.159
and that growing new nerve connections is actually what we

675
00:35:26.199 --> 00:35:29.559
call neuroplasticity, and it does help keep your brain young.

676
00:35:30.159 --> 00:35:32.559
But it can be something as simple as if you

677
00:35:32.719 --> 00:35:35.519
always brush your teeth with your right hand. If you

678
00:35:35.679 --> 00:35:37.920
try and brush your teeth with your left hand, the

679
00:35:37.960 --> 00:35:40.760
first time you do it, you will feel really weird

680
00:35:40.840 --> 00:35:43.719
and you'll probably shut your teeth up your nose and

681
00:35:43.760 --> 00:35:46.039
you'll do a terrible job on your teeth. But if

682
00:35:46.039 --> 00:35:48.039
you did that for two weeks, because there are some

683
00:35:48.079 --> 00:35:50.159
people who break their arm and they can't brush their

684
00:35:50.199 --> 00:35:52.639
teeth with the right arm, by the time they are

685
00:35:52.719 --> 00:35:55.400
like two weeks into it, they're really good at brushing

686
00:35:55.400 --> 00:35:58.440
their teeth with it. That's done a whole lot of

687
00:35:58.559 --> 00:36:02.960
new not new nerves, new connections between existing nerves, and

688
00:36:03.159 --> 00:36:06.119
that is helping to keep their brain young. So nobody

689
00:36:06.159 --> 00:36:09.199
needs to learn Russian, or no one needs to start

690
00:36:09.239 --> 00:36:12.360
to go to the opera. You don't need to start

691
00:36:12.400 --> 00:36:15.360
reading Tolstoy. What you do need to do is just

692
00:36:15.559 --> 00:36:17.920
learn to do something that you haven't done before, and

693
00:36:18.000 --> 00:36:22.400
not every day. It's just regularly give your brain a challenge.

694
00:36:22.760 --> 00:36:26.039
Try a new recipe that you haven't tried before. If

695
00:36:26.079 --> 00:36:29.039
you always do crosswords, try and do notts and crosses.

696
00:36:29.199 --> 00:36:31.719
If you've done lots and crosses, try and read the

697
00:36:31.719 --> 00:36:34.039
sports section of the paper. I know that to miamas

698
00:36:34.119 --> 00:36:35.679
or be reading great how I can't understand a word

699
00:36:35.719 --> 00:36:38.280
of the sport section, But you know, I reckon within

700
00:36:38.320 --> 00:36:40.159
a week I'd be all over to sports section. I

701
00:36:40.159 --> 00:36:42.480
would even be able to understand the racing, which is

702
00:36:42.639 --> 00:36:45.360
just really look do my head in. But what we're

703
00:36:45.400 --> 00:36:48.119
trying to get you to do is just to experience

704
00:36:48.199 --> 00:36:51.039
things differently. But one of the ways in which you

705
00:36:51.119 --> 00:36:55.880
improve your neuroplasticities by studying faces and having eye contact

706
00:36:55.880 --> 00:36:59.800
with people, because you are actually reading people's faces and

707
00:36:59.800 --> 00:37:02.400
try trying to work out is that a happy face?

708
00:37:02.440 --> 00:37:04.239
Is that a sad pace? How have they reacted to

709
00:37:04.280 --> 00:37:07.639
what I've just said? Are they bored? Are they thick?

710
00:37:07.719 --> 00:37:11.000
Are they healthy? Your brain is giving you so much

711
00:37:11.039 --> 00:37:13.599
information just by looking at fates, and if you want

712
00:37:13.639 --> 00:37:17.079
to look at how brain works, look at a baby's

713
00:37:17.119 --> 00:37:21.159
face when they study a new face. And this happens

714
00:37:21.199 --> 00:37:23.199
to me every day in my surgery because I've got

715
00:37:23.239 --> 00:37:25.679
to do examinations of a new two month old, or

716
00:37:25.679 --> 00:37:27.519
a new six weeth old, or a new four month old.

717
00:37:28.280 --> 00:37:33.239
And even in my mask, my patience, my little baby,

718
00:37:33.320 --> 00:37:37.039
four month old babies, they study my face and then

719
00:37:37.119 --> 00:37:40.199
inevitably they start to smile. They don't need to see

720
00:37:40.199 --> 00:37:42.519
me smiling. They can't see my mouth, all my nose.

721
00:37:42.800 --> 00:37:45.480
They see my eyes, and they are responding to my

722
00:37:46.079 --> 00:37:49.639
smiley eyes with a smile back. They are studying and

723
00:37:49.719 --> 00:37:53.480
observing all the time. So much information is imparted by

724
00:37:53.480 --> 00:37:57.440
a face. And if you're not studying faces in the street,

725
00:37:57.760 --> 00:38:01.440
behind the counter of your cafe, at your workplace, you

726
00:38:01.519 --> 00:38:05.360
are missing out on so many opportunities to challenge your

727
00:38:05.400 --> 00:38:08.639
brain and to make connections at the same time. It's

728
00:38:08.719 --> 00:38:09.559
such a bargain.

729
00:38:10.079 --> 00:38:11.679
Yeah, such good advice.

730
00:38:11.800 --> 00:38:14.760
Last, but not least, Ginny, alcohol, You're very clear in

731
00:38:14.800 --> 00:38:17.719
the book that you're the person who hates exercise loves wine,

732
00:38:17.800 --> 00:38:19.679
and you did not want to do this research and

733
00:38:19.719 --> 00:38:21.519
find out that you had to start exercising and give

734
00:38:21.599 --> 00:38:26.199
up drinking. So for the people, Ginny, what's the verdict?

735
00:38:26.920 --> 00:38:29.039
So, look, I think I do need to start exercising.

736
00:38:29.280 --> 00:38:32.920
I actually interviewed twenty two experts around the world to

737
00:38:32.960 --> 00:38:34.760
find out what they were doing. These were the people

738
00:38:34.760 --> 00:38:37.880
who were leading the research into dementia prevention and management,

739
00:38:38.239 --> 00:38:40.519
and every single one of them is exercising is the

740
00:38:40.559 --> 00:38:43.039
only thing that they absolutely all agreed on. So yes,

741
00:38:43.079 --> 00:38:46.000
I do have to start exercising. Sadly, for me, I've

742
00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:48.639
elected tai Chi because love it. I think it's very

743
00:38:48.639 --> 00:38:52.239
serene and it's also out in the green. It gives

744
00:38:52.280 --> 00:38:54.039
me mind son as it gives me balance. I don't

745
00:38:54.039 --> 00:38:55.760
want to fall over. So I'm an old lady, so

746
00:38:55.760 --> 00:38:58.159
I've elected tai Chi. That's my go to. In terms

747
00:38:58.159 --> 00:39:00.280
of the white I have good news. Okay, I had

748
00:39:00.280 --> 00:39:03.480
to have stacks of wine every single night. But if

749
00:39:03.519 --> 00:39:05.800
I want to have a glass of red wine every

750
00:39:05.880 --> 00:39:09.840
night every other night, I'm okay. It's in the Mediterranean diet.

751
00:39:09.880 --> 00:39:12.400
It was in the double study. We don't have a

752
00:39:12.400 --> 00:39:16.840
lot of evidence that mild drinking, so a standard drink

753
00:39:16.960 --> 00:39:19.719
in Australia is ten grams of alcohol, which is in

754
00:39:19.719 --> 00:39:22.519
one hundred miles of wine, and red wine seems to

755
00:39:22.559 --> 00:39:25.000
be the thing that is in the Mediterranean diet, so

756
00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:26.519
it seems to be the best that happens to it

757
00:39:26.760 --> 00:39:30.159
very well with my love of shrass. So I can

758
00:39:30.239 --> 00:39:33.039
do that, and I can the NH and MRC guidelines,

759
00:39:33.039 --> 00:39:35.440
which is the National Health and Medical Research Council, which

760
00:39:35.480 --> 00:39:37.280
is like a peak body in Australia that kind of

761
00:39:37.280 --> 00:39:40.360
opines and all things. Hell, they have said ten standard

762
00:39:40.400 --> 00:39:44.960
drinks a week is safe and it might even be

763
00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:47.880
beneficial for your brain. It might not, but some studies

764
00:39:47.880 --> 00:39:50.239
are showing that it is beneficial for your brain. I

765
00:39:50.280 --> 00:39:52.440
would not be hitting the bottle with gay ban and

766
00:39:52.440 --> 00:39:54.280
then just thinking that you can just you know, down

767
00:39:54.679 --> 00:39:57.119
ten scotches or half a dozen Med's cows and pain

768
00:39:57.159 --> 00:39:59.000
at price for it. But I think if all you

769
00:39:59.000 --> 00:40:00.360
want to do is have a glass of wine and

770
00:40:00.440 --> 00:40:03.639
Vinada and every other night, go for it. And I've

771
00:40:03.639 --> 00:40:06.519
certainly heeded my own advice, or let's just say, continued

772
00:40:06.559 --> 00:40:08.239
to heed the advice today. I didn't even know I

773
00:40:08.280 --> 00:40:11.079
had before I read this book Very good.

774
00:40:11.320 --> 00:40:12.880
I knew that people would be wanting to know the

775
00:40:12.920 --> 00:40:14.400
answer to that question, so I thought about it to

776
00:40:14.400 --> 00:40:15.639
make sure I get that one in there.

777
00:40:17.239 --> 00:40:17.519
Jinny.

778
00:40:17.599 --> 00:40:21.199
I think that we have covered all of the key

779
00:40:21.400 --> 00:40:24.840
important factors. The book is called Save your Brain. I

780
00:40:24.880 --> 00:40:26.920
really loved it. I wanted to share with listeners that

781
00:40:27.719 --> 00:40:30.840
for the science nerds, there's plenty of science in there,

782
00:40:30.920 --> 00:40:33.280
like if you really want to look into the research

783
00:40:33.320 --> 00:40:37.159
and the different trials and medications and the brain chemistry,

784
00:40:37.280 --> 00:40:38.079
it's all there.

785
00:40:38.079 --> 00:40:40.599
But it is not a dense, heavy hard read.

786
00:40:40.679 --> 00:40:46.800
It's also very accessible, very digestible, and loads of little

787
00:40:46.880 --> 00:40:50.519
practical takeaway tips. So I think we are all affected

788
00:40:50.559 --> 00:40:53.039
by this, not only concerned for ourselves, but our parents,

789
00:40:53.079 --> 00:40:55.039
our in laws, you know, extended family.

790
00:40:55.079 --> 00:40:56.320
It is everywhere.

791
00:40:56.760 --> 00:41:00.599
So if you were confused like I was, then I

792
00:41:00.639 --> 00:41:03.159
would really recommend that you go grab this book. Ginny,

793
00:41:03.159 --> 00:41:05.280
thank you so much for your time today.

794
00:41:05.239 --> 00:41:06.960
Has thanks so much for having me on.

795
00:41:10.639 --> 00:41:13.480
Save Your Brain is out now in all bookstores.

796
00:41:13.760 --> 00:41:16.639
You can connect with Ginny at her social media Doctor

797
00:41:16.679 --> 00:41:18.960
Ginny dot com is her website. I'll drop all the

798
00:41:19.000 --> 00:41:22.199
links to her social media channels in the show notes. Obviously,

799
00:41:22.280 --> 00:41:23.800
I would love you to come and connect with me.

800
00:41:23.960 --> 00:41:27.599
I am cast Done underscore XO. I am mostly on

801
00:41:27.639 --> 00:41:30.639
Instagram and you'll find me on TikTok. My Facebook is

802
00:41:30.719 --> 00:41:34.119
castone dot xo and my website is cast done dot com.

803
00:41:34.480 --> 00:41:35.800
If you enjoyed this episode.

804
00:41:35.800 --> 00:41:37.599
If you like the show, please do you think about

805
00:41:37.639 --> 00:41:39.639
leaving us a five star rating and a review.

806
00:41:39.840 --> 00:41:41.280
It really does help to.

807
00:41:41.239 --> 00:41:43.559
Get us into the ears of more listeners and make

808
00:41:43.599 --> 00:41:46.159
sure you hit that plus button to subscribe so that

809
00:41:46.199 --> 00:41:47.960
you never miss a new episode.

810
00:41:48.320 --> 00:41:50.800
And I can't wait to catch.

811
00:41:50.559 --> 00:41:56.440
You on the next episode of Crappy to Happy

812
00:42:01.119 --> 00:42:01.599
Listener