Standing up for your beliefs with Dami Im

0:02 A listener production. This is Crappita Happy and I am your host, Cas Doun. I'm a clinical and coaching psychologist and mindfulness meditation teacher and of course author of the Crappita Happy books. In this show, I bring you conversations with interesting, inspiring, intelligent people who are experts in their field and who have something of value to share that will help you feel less crappy and more happy. Dami im captured all of our hearts when she won the X Factor Australia in twenty thirteen. This shy Korean born Australian first trained as a pianist and began her singing career playing to grandma's in Korean churches before her life was forever changed when she entered a singing competition on the TV with no expectation of winning. Since then, Darmi has released a string of hit albums and singles, and she became Eurovision Royalty in twenty sixteen when she earned the highest score ever achieved by an Australian entry with her smash hit Sound of Silence. Behind the scenes, though, Dami's creativity and her career were being stifled by the very people who were supposed to be helping her. Being young and naive to how the music industry worked, Darmi now realizes that she was being lied to, manipulated, and exploited.

1:26 Dami's story of fighting back to take control of her career and to make the music she always wanted to make is one of sacrifice, determination and faith. Here is Dami to share her story. Darmi, im welcome to the Crappy a Happy Podcast. Thank you so, Darmi. I watched your season of The X Factor. I can't say that I was a committed member of the Dami army, but I certainly loved watching you perform. And then there was this sort of period where we didn't see hear much of you after the X Factor. So it was fascinating to me to read your account of what happened in those years following your appearance on The X Factor. So, because obviously you won, the winner of The X Factor two thousand and thirteen is dummy. You were sensational, thank you, which is everybody's dream to bland the recording contract, but it obviously didn't really go as well as you had planned.

2:32 Can you share like what that was like? I guess being a part of the X Factor, but then also in the immediate aftermath of winning the show. Yeah, so I went into the show very young and naive. I've been a musician my whole life. I was pursued a career in singing. I was getting nowhere, and X Factor was kind of my last resort to try and get some exposure as a musician. As a singer, and being on that show just I learned so much, you know, about staging, costumes and everything. It was a wild experience.

3:12 Being on television was a whole new game speaking to media and yeah, it was a lot of things to learn. And also for me coming from this very like sheltered community Korean Christian culture was like my that was my world where I sort of hid inside because that was my little place where I knew and understood. But outside of that, I was I didn't have that many, you know, contacts, and you know, I didn't have a proper job as such, like when you're a musician, come on like you don't. Yeah, you're like a freelancer. But yeah, I was getting nowhere. That's why I went on the show. But you'd never heard of the show, right either, So I found fascinating.

3:55 I think, I mean, I must have, because remember that's also like mainstream tell Vision, which I wasn't that into, Like I was in my little Korean bubble, even though I grew up in Australia. So yeah, I had to google like the voice, you know, I'm going to do the voice, and then that was closed. So then X Factor was like, oh, what's that. Oh that's a singing show as well. All right, let's go for that. And so that's how I got into that show. By the time I won, it. Was completely unexpected. I hadn't planned to win and to get a recording contract, so that was a wild rollercoaster ride.

4:40 And then you won, which you hadn't prepared for. In your book, you said you partly weren't even sure that you wanted to win, right because you weren't really sure, you were so introverted and shy. Yeah, so I remember, you know, it started from the live shows, the top twelve, and then each week one person got eliminated, so we were up to three people and that was a final, and I knew I had a good chance of winning by that point, and I was going, this is terrifying, What does this even mean? For me, like will my life change completely? And you know, like I had a pretty good life. You know, I was nearly married, I liked my family in Brisbane. I had you know, a small group of friends at church that were lovely, like nothing wrong with that.

5:34 So I was like, will this just change everything? And I was just so terrified of the unknown, and because I was extremely religious. I still am, but back. Then it was more like, oh my gosh, Like I was really young as well, So I'm going, is this even God's plan? Like will this make other people happy? Or will I upset people by winning? Wow? And will people. Become more you know, jealous if I win, then other people don't win and people compare themselves to me. So I was just like overthinking and it was very confusing.

6:17 Yes, I was like it, but you did win. And then the very next day, everybody goes on parties at the end of the finale, and then you have to get up and front live TV and you did eighty eight zero interviews the next day. Yeah, seriously talking about the same thing eighty times. But more to the point, then you were on this kind of juggernaut. So basically, can you share like what happens after that for the winner, because you go straight into it, they're obviously banking on the success of the show.

6:59 So you're recording, you're you know, traveling performing. What was that like? Yeah, So basically the winner gets a recording contract with Sony and also a management contract. It's like an arranged marriage. You don't really get a choice. It's like, that's what happens. The management was owned by Sony, which is a big conflict of interest. But back then I had no idea how it all worked. So that happens, and then I really had no idea what was going to happen, Like what do I do? Now I'm a pop star, but like what does that even mean? So then I have to record this album to release in two weeks, which is super super quick. Now when I make albums, it's months and months and months.

7:46 You know. We had this big X Factor tour where the top six of us did a whole tour of Australia in arenas, which yeah, because my year was so popular, a lot of people watched it. So we were performing, traveling, and then I had to do in stores to sell this album, so you know, signing it shopping centers and also attend Sony events, Aria Awards, and then all these other you know, corporates and different events happening at the same time, and magazine shoots. Yeah, all of these things just fanbom member and I'm just flying from one state to the next, going when does this end?

8:32 When do I get to go home? And yeah, I was so unhappy. Yeah, So the question like, will this changed my whole life? The answer was absolutely yes, it absolutely did. Yeah, it did. It did. It did, and not in a good way necessarily. Yeah. At that time, I was just so lost. And my personality is I take time to get used to things. I need time, Like I don't like spontaneous events happening to me, Like it took me twelve years to get used to my school, and then in year twelve I started to enjoy it, you know, because.

9:12 I was used to it. But then yeah, I know, but then this is just like bam, You're into it, and I'm like, oh, I'm scared, and I've got to meet all these people, and yeah it was. Yeah, it was a lot. And what you described in the book, you got no notice. And I think the important thing to note is that they were supposed to give you notice. About what you were doing and where you're expected to be, and they were telling you on the day. Yeah, I really wanted to know, like what I'm doing tomorrow when I'm going to go home, Like you know, if you can plan what you're going to do, even if you have a crazy schedule, you can sort of cope, right. But yeah, they.

9:53 Didn't tell me. And I don't necessarily think they were doing that on purpose. They would just be as well, and they. Didn't have the resources or the attention to like care for this new person they were managing like so many artists, which now I realize is very ineffective, Like no one does that well, and so they just wanted heaps of people on their book and you never really get the attention that you need. And I had to ask. Like, hey, I was just wondering, like can I find out like what I'm doing in advance? And they're like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, like we can probably send you a calendar.

10:36 I'm like, oh, why didn't you do that, you know, first week? Yeah, not like after like a month of just going, ah, what am I doing? Yeah, I'm just thinking about what that must have been, Like, I mean, like you said you were newly married, your husband's at home, your parents. That must have taken a real toll, like on you emotionally, physically, everything. Yeah. Luckily though, my husband, he was able to take time off work for a really long time and he traveled with me to a lot of events, which was really helpful. But then that was good, and also I became super reliant on him as well. Like I don't know, it just became a.

11:17 Little bit strange because then he was becoming famous as well, and wasn't necessarily a good thing that people were. Like, oh the couple. Like after a while, I'm like. I need to forge my career rather than kind of asking him for permission, and like I just relied on his opinion about everything because I was just so scared and young. I guess I had to grow up at the same time as all this was happening. Because I was in my twenties, I was so naive and I just had to figure things out. Yeah, I can imagine, And it must have just been hard to know. Really, I can imagine you doing that because you wouldn't have known who had your best interests at heart. Because it doesn't sound like your management company necessarily or the label had your best interest at heart, as it turned out.

12:07 Yeah, and I didn't realize that till much later, because at the time I was just like, go with the floor, I guess. Not rock the boat. That came through very strongly actually that you were very much not wanting to be demanding, being very grateful for the opportunity and very humble, very hard working. But people were taking advantage right exactly. And because I had so much success when I was performing before this, like nobody cared and I was being paid very little money, whereas now you know, I was getting much better money, like compared to what I was making before, was huge in comparison.

12:50 So then I'm like, oh, I shouldn't complain. I'll just do as I'm told because this money is good. And if I perform for a corporate like, I'll ask everything they'd tell me. To do, because yeah, like it's good money. But now I'm like, I didn't have to do that. And that would have been the management's job to let me know, Hey, you shouldn't do that, like you shouldn't have to appear on a horse and sing in a giant gown, and. Like I just did things because they asked me. And I'm like, ah, better say yes to everything. You know, obviously, your whole point of going on the show was because you wanted to forge a career as a singer. And then what happened over time was that you weren't given the opportunity to be creative, to perform for your fans. You're doing corporate gigs because they make the most money for your management, being asked to record cover albums rather than original music. I know that, you say.

13:43 In hindsight, I realized I didn't have to do all of that, But at the time, how did that feel? Like? How was that demoralizing? Oh? Absolutely, at the time. I was just so upset, like just heartbroken every time something like that would happen. For example, you know, I do talk about it in the book, but we did this photo shoot, you know, with like one of the best. Photographers in Australia. We did this cover shoot for Gladiator, my next single, and the whole team was so excited. We put in all this effort and then I just get told days later, oh, this isn't right for you, so we need another photo.

14:23 It just didn't make any sense. Then they would just pick my previous single cover and just change the color and call it the new single cover. And it was to punish me. You know. It wasn't oh this actually you know doesn't look good on you. It just it was just a way of. Punishing me because I didn't listen to everything that they were telling me to do. I didn't even know that I was offending them. I wasn't trying to, but just because I didn't say yes to the single that they wanted to wanted me to do. Yeah, and they. Would cancel my music videos after they were made, and then my album kind of didn't do you know. Well, it went up on the charts, and then it just went down right straight away because there was no promotion around it, no tour. So then I was in this position like, oh, you know, I've got to do as I'm told because where do I go from here?

15:16 So then I do it otherwise they punish you. Yeah, exactly. So I'm like, Okay, I'll be a good girl. I'll do what they want me to do. So then I do an album of covers and I do it with all my heart because I'm like, I'm not going to do a half fast job on this, so do my best. Then they go oh, you've got to redo that. It's not right. It was extremely frustrating and yeah, demoralizing. I remember just thinking to myself, I hope one day I can talk about this, and I hope one day I am in a position of power where I don't have to put up with this crap. I think that was in my head the most going. I can't do anything now, because then I'll just disappear and no one will ever hear for me.

16:01 I'll never get to tell my fans what happened. It's very tough. Just on that subject of the music video. Like, there was so many like little insights into the industry things that I didn't know, Like you explain in the book about like this whole recoupable account thing where you actually the money that they spend or that you spend on creating a video has to be recouped from record sales or something. Right, you go to all of this trouble to make this amazing video and then Sony just says, Nah, don't like it. There was one video that you haven't even seen to this day, yep, because they just trashed it and still made you pay for it exactly. Yeah, there were two videos like that so the one they trashed, so we shot another one overnight. No sleep, just get it done. I didn't get to see that either.

16:49 And it's to protect my brand, they said, and I just it was just frustrating. To say the least. To say the least, tell me, the relation that you formed with Danny on the show was much publicized, like you, it would appear, you know, there'd be magazine articles where you were hanging out with Danny like outside the show and stuff like that. And I know that you said that she intervened early on to get you a new music video made. I'm curious to know kind of how supportive was she throughout the subsequent years, Like did you maintain that relationship? You know, how important was she as a mentor, as a role model, like after the show? Yeah, so she did jump in for in that very first moment after I got signed, when Sony made this video for my very first single and it was really bad.

17:39 So Danny came in and said, you can't do that. You know, she deserves better and the fans deserve better after you know, following the journey from the X Factor, and she jumped in. She directed a whole video without asking for any money, and that was incredible, Like I always remember that with like such awe, because who does that. You know, even afterwards we would catch up, you know, if I'm in Melbourne, I would go to a place and hang out with a family. Just stayed in touch and you know, I speak to her from time to night. She called me the other day to congratulate me on the book, and you know, it's just really nice to have somebody who's real and genuine. And I know that most mentors from these shows don't do that, you know, like they don't have to. They go through so many artists they have to mentor, and they don't get paid to stay in tart and do all that. So I'm incredibly lucky that I found somebody who's just so so beautiful.

18:40 And I mean she's got so much experience in this industry as well, so just being able to talk to her and like. Ask her opinion on things is great. But when I was in the thick of all that frustration, I didn't even know what to ask. I was just like, okay, you know, it was yeah, But I think, yeah. In hindsight, I should have called Daddy and be like, if I do this is, Yeah, this makes no sense. That would have been good in nine side. Yeah, but you're right, like, when you're in it, it is it's really hard. It's hard to know when you don't have that. You don't know what. You don't know in those situations exactly. And I also didn't know whether, you know, it was a good thing if she goes and says, oh, I'll talk to whoever, and I'm like, then I might get in trouble or you know, it was just just scary.

19:33 I came across this woman on TikTok a little while ago, who was posting, you know, obviously TikTok is he's like three minute videos, and I'd never seen this woman. She just came up on my four you page and it turned out she was an X Factor in the British X Factor. She was maybe twenty thirteen and I think she came second. I thought she was the winner, but it turned out she came second, and so she got signed and I was just glued to her story in these little three minute videos and she basically just described her experience. I swear it was almost identical to yours. She talked about being so sick and the label forcing her to perform and asking for time off and them just being not interested at her not being able to do the shows that she wanted to do, not being able to make the music that she wanted to do.

20:17 She's now out of that contract as well, and I think that she's working on a book, but she's really careful about what she says because she's got all these non disclosure things. You know, as you do, is this rife? Like is this quite wide? But the way you were treated, would you say that this is fairly widespread, particularly on the back of these reality TV shows as well as I guess the music industry in general, but particularly in those Yeah, I. Mean we were all treated like that. You know, there were a lot of us, and we were all treated like that. But I feel lucky because I came out through the other side and I'm talking to you. You know, I'm doing this. You know, I'm in a good place where I still make music and I have the DIMI army supporting me still. But like a lot of artists didn't make it.

20:59 They they gave up, and you know, I came so close to giving up as well. At one point I was like, I would rather. Go back to singing at rural churches for five grandmas than have this major record label contract where I have to sing another covers album. That was the point where I was like, I don't care if I never record again. I can't do this anymore. It's too humiliating and I just wanted to have autonomy like a person, like a real adult. You know. It wasn't worth it, no matter how much money they were going to throw at me for doing something that I wasn't willing to do.

21:41 I was like, I don't need that anymore. I'm just going to go. And a lot of artists have chosen that path and so they just do their own thing. They're gone. So yeah, I hope that you're enjoying this conversation and realizing the benefits of positivity in your own life. If you are enjoying the show, please be sure to like and subscribe so that you get notified when you apps drop and head on over to Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen and leave us a rating and review and dummy. So the turning point for you, would it be fair to say so? Then Eurovision came along? Was that the turning point for you?

22:26 It was definitely a pivotal moment for me, not just because it was a great platform, but that's where everything started to click and it was a turning point. And what happened such a huge platform, you know, and even the most seasoned artists, they are like shitting their pants, like that's that's the expression everyone used, Like it's not like any other performance. It's so nerve wrecking and very stressful. After going through. That, like and during it, that's when I realized Sony and my management, maybe they don't have the same.

23:07 Interests or the best interest for me. They have their own agenda. So like in the book that the Sony called and said, sing the song like the original, don't change it, just sing it as the recording. And I was like, oh okay. And Paul Clark, who was the head of Eurovision for Australia, he heard what was happening and he said, you know, you don't have to do everything they tell you to do. I was like really, And that hadn't even crossed my mind. I thought I didn't have a choice, but I was like, oh okay, And that was the. First time I went maybe they don't care about me.

23:50 Wow, maybe I need to look out for myself. My management team wasn't even there, so I had a Sony with me. And after it was all over and I came second, I almost won, which was a huge achievement for me, and I was incredibly proud, and I started to question everything. I went, why am I with my manager? What does he actually do for me? I started to question everything, and there was this huge shift in my career. I started to change up the people that I work with, and then there was a lot of friction because of that, you know, because I wanted to now leave Sony, and you know, it became really tense before I could be set free.

24:41 How was that for you? You describe yourself as being very shy and introverted. You've spent all of these years telling the line, doing what they say, not making trouble, and then you really had to fight, and you know, these are senior people, men in suits, and you had to stand up for yourself. Like where did you find the courage to do that? How how did you manage to do that? Look, yeah, I am the most uncon confrontational person in the world, Like I hate confrontation. I would just smile and laugh things away. But I had to decide, look like I need to stand off for myself, otherwise I'll be stuck in this place doing.

25:21 What I don't want to do for myself. So I had to really pull up that courage where you know, big girl pants and do it. And I guess when I actually went into that boardroom to have the meeting with the big boss, with the lawyers, the men in suits staring at me, I felt really calm and I could just speak what I wanted to say without emotion, like, without getting angry or upset. I just thank them, listen to their monologue for twenty minutes, and then I said, thank you, thank you for everything you've done for me, But you don't want me or my label if I don't do another covers album.

26:04 So I guess this is it. You need to drop me. And that was a really great moment for me because it was the first time I actually went head to head with the biggest boss, who everyone was scared of. All the men in suits were scared of, all the artists were scared of, very powerful, and I was ready to be dropped. I wanted to be dropped, and they weren't going to let me go that easily. But it was the first step of me trying to escape that contract. Yeah, and you did right. That was the beginning of the end, really, and you were able to get out of that contract. Yeah, it took a while. It was a bit more patience, and by that point I had a really great person who actually did have the best interest for me as an artist, and so he had to sort of threaten their people, saying, if you don't let her go, Dami might go and tell everybody she's you know.

27:04 She's a bit crazier, you know, like you don't want to. Like. He had to do that, and their reputation was important to them. So that's how it happened. But it wasn't straightforward, but we did get out together in the end. You talked in the beginning, tell me about being really religious and having a little Korean church community. And I know you spent like so many, you know, months and years performing at little Korean churches, traveling back and forwards to Korea to get yourself started to practice your craft. How important was your faith I suppose in getting you through those tough times as well. I guess whenever I had those upsetting moments, which were many, I had to keep reminding myself of how God has led me through that, like up to that point, because my journey from coming to Korea, coming to Australia from Korea doing piano, growing up here, going on X.

28:02 Factor winning, like that whole thing was just crazy. And I really felt like that was God leading me through that. Whole process because it felt so supernatural, like how did this happen? Really miraculous and hard to explain, and yeah, it just amazed me. So I couldn't deny that God didn't lead me to that point, and so I kept thinking there must be something in this, even if I don't understand it. Now, you know, there must be a bigger plan, and you know He's going to take care of me basically like I'm in good hands and you know, no matter what, like and you know what, like I suppose I had this really like deep core belief that.

28:54 Even if I lose everything, I'm. Gonna be okay, like that feeling, even if they don't want me anymore, or yeah, I go home and can't sing and do whatever, like I'll be okay because I've got you know, in his planned something will happen and I'll do something else, you know, like that that feeling helps you feel less desperate. Yes, I agree. I agree. You know, whether you are a little bit woo woo or whether you're you know, really traditionally religious, which you know I'm not. I'm much more of that kind of Oh. I just think the universe is kind of out there protecting me. It gives you that sort of trust, doesn't it. It gives you that sense of no, like I don't have to cling so tightly.

29:40 I'll be okay. Yeah, definitely. Like and I know a lot of people who believe that that's their everything, you know, they don't have that sense of trust, as you said, and those people end up going the wrong path like being I've seen it so many times, like they become addicted to drugs or addicted to you know, just like bad relationships or like it's just that they need to grab onto something otherwise they're just so scared of, yeah, losing that one thing. And for me, yeah, that wasn't the case. I as much as I.

30:21 Love what I do, I always try and remember even today that if I were to lose it, I'm still fine, Like I'm gonna be okay, even though I'll be upset of course, I'll be so sad, but I'll be fine. I'll be sad for a while, but I'll find my way. I also didn't see this on the news when it happened, but I've heard about it since that there was some big investigation into Sony, right, there was a four Corners report and the toxic bullying kind of culture. All these people spoke out. How vindicating was that. Yeah, when that came out, to be honest, like it was pretty tame. Like when I watched it, I was like, oh, that's it. It like that's all.

31:01 And I guess, you know, because of lawsuits and like legal stuff, they probably couldn't show everything. But at least I was so glad that that day of all of us from the industry seeing that change happen, you know, that that was something to celebrate. And because like a. Lot of us would say back in the you know this all happened, or this all came out, we all said, yeah, you know what, this will never change in our lifetime, Like that was what everyone said. People who were you know, employees of the company, other artists. Yeah, we just said, yeah, this probably won't change and you know until I'm old and retired. So who cares, Like I've just got to push through and live with how like the unjust treatment and whatever was happening. But yeah, so that was really great to see that change and you feel acknowledged, you know.

31:58 And I guess like because of that, I can talk about these things and be believed. Otherwise I would just be like this person yapping and people going what do you mean? Like they're fine, everyone else is fine, Like why are you complaining? And that change, like that was big change, wasn't it. So the boss of Sony stood down, Like here had been the boss of everything, controlling the music industry for all of that time, and there's this massive change. Now there's this whole news. Yeah, everyone's talking out about what happened, and there's a new boss at the company, a female boss, so everyone's being a lot more hopeful about the future. So and for you, Darmy, you know what happened for you?

32:41 So you got your own manager, You ended up joining a different company. Yes, I got signed to ABC, which is a lot smaller, but I have all the freedom, all the support. So I released my own album last year with them, which was so great because yeah, it was like I had all control do everything that I wanted to do, I always got, you know, said was always said no to. It's been so good and I'm you know, doing the book and tell the stories. I mean, there was the boring C word COVID of two years where everything. Was like about to happen, and then it did it. It felt like there's this gap where nothing much happened.

33:23 But yeah, since then, everything's feeling so much better. Yeah, I'm so happy for you, honestly. And the album that you put out last year, which is called My Reality, is amazing, brilliant, Thank you, and it's what your DAMI Army have been waiting for for so long exactly. So I just think that Damie Army, so it just really speaks to the power of the fan base, you know, like I think about even the Free Brittany movement, like the fans for years fought for her to get out of that conservativeship and they just have so much power, and especially with social media now they are force the fan base. So I think that the DAMI Army is an amazing kind of story. You know that they have rallied around you and supported you for such a long time and they're so loyal and love you so much, So it is amazing that you're able to now share the truth exactly.

34:12 Yeah, I think, and then they really deserve to know the truth of what happened with my videos and the photos and all the albums. Like it was just Yeah, that was the hardest part, I supposed because I couldn't tell them what was happening. I just had to be like, it's happening, and it's not. Happening, and they're saying, where's the video, where's the video? When you're saying and you couldn't say. Anything, yeah, and I'm just silent. That was hard. Dummy. You have a little baby, now you have your freedom in your musical career. What is next for you? Now that we are out of the worst of COVID, What is next? My gosh. Yeah. So I have been saying that I wanted to come back to Eurovision for the longest time, and that was, you know, two years ago, and so I'm hoping that that can happen soon. I'm hoping it's next year, but who knows that maybe Dami Army will rally again and SBS will make that happen for me.

35:09 Who knows. So that's been at. The top of my list of things that I really want to do to come back and have another crack after all those years, now that I have, you know, the freedom and maturity I suppose, and yeah, that's that's pretty much all. I've been working towards this all the time. And then I'd love to to do more more music, and yeah, I have a few things that I really want to do that hopefully I can share if I get to do Eurovision. First, I mean, well done, congratulations on enduring and you know, just staying the course and finally, you know, getting to getting to tell your story and getting to do what you're born to do, which you really are.

35:53 Thank you. Dami's memoir is called Dreamer and it is out now in all bookstores. You can follow her on Instagram at Dami im. Thank you for listening and don't forget. If you love Crapy to Happy, please subscribe so you never miss a new episode. Leave us a five star rating and review, and do share this episode with anyone else who you think might enjoy it. To keep up with what I'm doing, jump on my mailing list. It's at my website cast done dot com. Connect with me on socials. I'm cast Done, Underscore XO on Instagram and TikTok, and of course you can always email me hello at castone dot com. I cannot wait to catch you on the next episode of Crapy to Happy listener