Tapping for mental health with Jacqui Manning

0:02 A listener production. Hi, you're listening to Crappy to Happy and I'm your host, Cas Dunn. I'm a clinical and coaching psychologist, mindfulness meditation teacher, and author of the Crappy. To Happy books. In this series, we look at all the factors that might be making you feel crappy and the tools and the techniques that will help you overcome them. In each episode, I. Introduce you to interesting, inspiring, intelligent people who are experts in their field, and my hope is that they will help you go from crappy to happy. Today, I'm talking with Jackie Manning, who is a psychologist who frequently appears in the media and this year is a psychologist on the Super Switch. Jackie has been using tapping in her psychology practice for almost twenty years and has seen firsthand how it has helped people very quickly overcome issues such as anxiety, phobias, even PTSD. Had a chat about exactly what tapping is, what the science says about it, and how you can apply it in your own life. If you thought that EFT tapping was a little bit hokey or a little bit out there, then I feel confident that this conversation will change your mind.

1:16 Jackie. For our listeners, can you please explain to us what is tapping. So, tapping is a set of techniques that works on the meridian system in our body, and the meridian system is something that transports energy. So it's quite an Eastern medicine philosophy used in shigoung and acupuncture. And those kind of treatments or modalities. It's often referred to as psychological acupressure or psychological acupuncture because you're using your stimulating points, typically by tapping those points. Hence tapping exactly very creative name, mostly on your face and your fingers, and you don't have to tap the points if you don't like to tap the points though, like everybody's body is individual, everyone's energy system is individual, so I would tap a certain way, whereas someone else might prefer to just touch those points or massage those points, and you can get benefit from that.

2:15 The theory goes is that. By focusing on a problem or an issue, it while while you stimulate those points through tapping, touching or stimulating those points, you unblock your energy system. And it's the blockages in your energy system that can cause ailments such as anxiety, physical pain, emotional pain essentially, and by focusing on the problem tapping for it, you can unblock your energy system. It's not a magic wand it's not going to resolve every issue in your life. But I know. But what it can help enormously with is your reaction to certain situations.

2:55 The trauma or memory. Or association and you have with a person in your life or a situation in your life that's causing you a lot of discomfort. So if somebody listening to this thinks this all sounds a bit woo woo and they're a little bit skeptical about it, you're a psychologist. You use this in your practice. I'm interested in, Jackie, and how did you first get involved with this, What brought this to your attention and what got you on board? Yeah, well, I first learned it back in ninety nine when I was a tape counselor. So I was working full time as a tape counselor and we had staff developments back then when tape had some funding, and a guy came in and taught us tapping, and I thought, oh, that's interesting. I'd never heard of meridians or energy before.

3:36 But I promptly forgot about it when the next presenter came along, and didn't really think about it for some months. But about that same year, probably three or four months after that, I had some surgery and I had a lot of physical pain surrounding the healing of that surgery. And there was one night, and I can still visually vividly remember this. I was sitting there in the most enormous amount of pain. There was nothing I could do physically for myself, and tapping popped into my mind to and I thought, oh, well, what the hell can I swear on the show with them? I probably won't. Exactly, it can't hurt. I gave it a go, and no word of a lie. It just the procedure I was having to do. It took the pain away instantly, and I was gobsmacked. I didn't really know what had happened. I was quite spun out, really, to tell you the truth. But it was enough of a hook to get me curious, and I was grateful for it being such a dramatic hook, which won't always happen for people. Since in the years since, it doesn't happen like that every time for me, It's not the case so I don't want to set people up with that belief that you know the ground of tapping and it's going to cure everything.

4:38 It's not like that. It takes persistence and work. But it was enough of a light bulb moment for me to go, Okay, I don't get that, but I want to know more. And so I went on to train with two wonderful men called doctor David Lake and Steve Wells and basically followed them around for about ten years and learned all that good and became great friends and colleagues with them, and then started to use it with clients. I got my com infiden it's up with using it with clients because it is strange when you first look at it. It often makes my clients giggle. It often makes them go, how can this help me? And I get that, and I encourage people to be skeptical. Of course you would, why would you believe what I'm telling you unless you try it on for yourself. But being cynical blocks you off from things that could help.

5:20 So I just encourage clients to try because it's really good to introduce to people because it's not going to hurt. It's not a medication that might have side effects. It's not going to hurt them. The worst that can happen is it will do nothing. And that's if usually if they don't use it, and that's okay. You know, it's not the only tool in the world, but it's just a really useful one to have in your back pocket because life throws us a lot of crappy. Time sometimes and it's what do you do with that? A lot of times psychologists rely on the thinking patterns, and that's only a part of us. There's a huge part of our being. That's our subconscious mind, our body mind, our soul, you know, our energy. What you can't think your way out of certain situations because you've already would be if you could exactly.

6:05 So I know what tapping is and I've used it before and I've done a workshop on it. I have to admit I'm probably one of those people who's been not very consistent with using it, but I'm very supportive of it. And I think what's interesting now is back then, Jackie like, there really wasn't a lot of science to support it. You just went with it because you saw the results with your clients. Right, yes, But fast forward, twenty years and now there is loads of science coming out proving its effectiveness, particularly around things like well, PTSD seems to be the big one for war veterans, and I read one study where eighty six percent of war veterans no longer met criteria for PTSD after six sessions of tapping, which is unbelievable when you think about how chronic and debilitating and how PTSD is like, it's very hard to treat.

6:58 It's extremely hard to treat, and this is the PTSD and those studies with the Vietnam vet's Gary Craig started those years ago and got those great results. And with any I work a lot with clients who've had PTSD in different forms through sexual assaults or perhaps childhood trauma, things like that, and why it stays in their system is because every time they think about that memory. So for those veterans, for example, if they thought about if they had flashbacks about something that happened and I can't imagine what they saw, they would feel that emotion in their body. They'd feel that tension, that anxiety. You can't help it tense up. And you can test this out yourself. So if you think of something that's stressful for you, like an exam or a job interview, or something that's making you feel anxious stress. I had a client yesterday talking about golf. You know, golf is a very psychological game.

7:47 You can feel it in your body and you can't argue with that. Tapping is a body technique. It's often described as a psychological technique, and it does work, particularly your thoughts eventually, but it really works on the body. It stimulates these meridian systems, which is the system used in acupuncture as well. So it's physical and so that's why the more tapping you do, the better. So when you think of these flashbacks, these difficult. Times, your horrible mother or whatever it might be, there's that sensation that goes along with that, Like I know, I feel it in my stomach, People feel it. We feel all in our body for sure. Yes, absolutely. And my belief is it gets stuck there too, and people just don't know how to release it. So they tuck it away, tuck it away, tuck it away, and think that that's gone until it erupts one day because the stress levels have gone too high or something's happened to stir things up, and they haven't dealt with this stuff, and it's got to come out somewhere, and it's better it comes out in a treatable way rather than getting sick or some other kind of trauma that happens to people to compound that.

8:53 So there is a lot. Of research that's been done over the twenty years i've been working. I haven't conducted any myself, but Steve Wells has. He's done several studies on phobias of small animals and things like that and got great results. There's Peter Stapleton, you've probably heard of up in Queensland. She's done lots of research on food and cravings and that stress and food cravings are. We all know their links, so what do we do about it. We're tapping helps with dealing with not only the physical craving for food, nicotine, alcohol, whatever it might be that you're craving, but it deals with the underlying stress that's contributing to that need for that substance.

9:33 And the interesting thing, glad that you mentioned Peter Stapleton, because the interesting thing I read about her research because now that they've got evidence that it works in terms of changing people's behavior and in producing results, that are observable, you know, weight loss, things like that. But she, I believe, is the first person who has actually put people through fMRI studies and looked at the activity of the brain while they're tapping. And people look at pictures of food that would normally stimulate a craving, tap through that process, and after four weeks, when they look at that food, the part of the brain responsible for activating a craving doesn't activate, So that actually completely diminish the trigger or the craving that normally would arise when they look at that thing or whatever it is that they would normally want, which is absolutely fantastic.

10:19 Is amazing. It puts the power back in people's hands. And I think the reason why it works so effectively is because it works on both the body and the mind. So when you're looking at certain programs for quitting smiking. For example, I had another beautiful client years and years ago. She'll always stick in my mind too. She was terrified of quitting smoking. She rang me because she wanted to quit smoking. However, she had so much anxiety panic attacks due to her upbringing. But I so forget about the smoking. Let's just keep smoking for now. Let's work on all the other stuff underneath that and what's holding you back and the reasons you think why you can't quit, and then we'll look at quitting. And we did, and I work with her, like seriously, fifteen years ago or something. I contacted her recently for a reason, and she's still smoke free. She's still you know, she's she's amazing. And because it gets at the roots of the belief systems that we all carry around with us and that feel so real, but they're not real. They're just bis belief systems that we all kind of grow up with and get fixated on. I must mention this too, because tapping works amazingly for the anxiety spectrum it has.

11:24 I will try it on any type of anxiety. It doesn't have the same success rates with depression, and that's quite sad, and you know, it's all quite disappointing. We haven't quite worked out why. But it can work with some mild aspects of depression. It won't work with the same level of depression. So I just want to mention that in case I forget later, so that people don't have that kind of expectation. That it will work equivalently. On everything. Yeah, good to know. It's good to know. I did see there was a review where they did look at they have looked depression and they've seen some effect, but it does seem to be mostly around anxiety disorders and all phobias o CD, generale, anxiety, trauma, addiction, everything that you that you mentioned.

12:11 Yes, because I think if you think about fear, fear, you know triggers that far. Off a fight response. There's that arousal in your body. It's very clear that you're experiencing symptoms of anxiety. You know, your heart rate increases, it's measurable, you can feel it. It's that energetic peak of anxiety. And tapping is a very it has a very calming effect, so it will help bring that down. But with anxiety, as you know, Cass, you know, it sets up this pattern of a cycle. And so I used to use this analogy. But I did learn tapping twenty years ago. It's a bit out of date. I have to think of a new one. But it's a bit like I grew up with records, you know, listening to music on records, and if you scratch the record once it wouldn't play. It would still play quite quite reasonably. But if you kept scratching it and scratching it and scratching it, eventually that record just couldn't play.

12:58 In the same way. And so I used to say to people, it's like the belief that you might have a panic attacks like that record, and if we scratch it enough, fingers cross, I would never guarantee this would happen for anyone just putting it out there as a possibility, but fingers cross, if we do work hard enough and scratch it enough, that record just simply won't play. And one day that panic attack belief that you've got will just evaporate, or the anxiety you live with may just dissipate. Off the back of that. The tapping therapy works on the limbic system, which is an ancient system in our brain that keeps us safe. Many of your listeners will have heard of the fight or flight response and what that is. It's a small part of our brain, but a very powerful part called the amygdala, and when there's a danger or a perceived danger, it stimulates this system into action, which is literally pumping blood through your system, making your muscles in gorge so you can fight a predator or run as fast as you can away from it. I like in the amygdala to the smoke alarm that we have in our house.

13:57 So our smoke. Alarm will blare at a piece of burnt toast, and it will also make the same screaming sound if our house is burning down. The amigdala's job is not to discriminate what the fear actually is. Its job is just to alert you to the fact that there's a fear, the fact that there might be a perceived danger. Now, clearly we live in a modern world. We're not being chased by sabertooth tigers. But our perceived fears are things like job interviews, deadlines, you know, new relationships, new big goals. All those kind of things are the things that trigger this fight or flight response. There's also the freeze response, but we won't go into that for you for today. So the way tapping works is to calm the amygdala down and in some cases literally sort of shut it down in those situations so it just won't fire in the same way. You can calm it down in other ways, of course, but tapping is just a very effective way to do it, and it's quick and it's simple and I'm a fan of quick and simple.

14:53 Most people are fans of quick and simple, and I think that that is that's a really helpful explanation. So in terms of somebody right now who perhaps was a skeptic and it's now saying cool, I'm on board because I'm really anxious about my performance appraisal or that date I'm going on on Friday night or whatever. So what is the actual process that they follow? They think about the situation that's really stressed, and then what do they do. I'll talk you through it. So some people are very visual, So if you are call up a picture of yourself being in that interview room or in front of that date and not knowing what to say or whatever it is. Some people are very auditory. So think of the words you might say to yourself, like I'm going to stuff it up, I'm a loser.

15:34 No, they're not going to like me. Whatever it is. These negative thoughts. I must make this point because I continually have to remind clients these negative thoughts are there. They're in your brain. They're no secret, it's just that you're trying to hide them. So I have clients getting worried that I'm trying to program negative thoughts into their brain, but tapping actually does the opposite. You need to deal You can't deal with a problem unless it's in your focus. And so that's why I'm talking about negative thoughts, because they're there. Doing some tapping ahead of time is a beautiful way to minimize that anxiety. It may not take it away one hundred. Percent, but let's face it, if the scales are down by eighty percent, that's a pretty good result. So you think of the issue that's in front of you, and then you start working through the points. I'll describe them, and they correspond to different parts of your body. So the best way is to take two fingers, and because that way you can it doesn't matter to be too exact, but you'll be able to hit the point with two fingers more easily than one. So the first point is where at the very beginning of your eyebrow, sort of above your nose, the bridge of your nose, but closest to one eyebrow, and you start tapping right where that eyebrow begins.

16:37 Either stiar, it doesn't matter, Either. Side doesn't matter. You have them down both sides. I have clients that like to do it both sides at the same time. That's absolutely fine. You have it there for a few seconds. There's no exact number of times you have to tap. You just do it till you feel like you want to move on. Then the next points where your eyebrow finishes, near your temple area, but just where the eyebrow finishes, and you just tap down there. The next point is underneath the eye in the center, almost where your pupil would be if you're looking out in front, at the top of your cheekbone. This point I love and I always mentioned this to clients because our stomachs, for many of us, not for everybody, but for many of us other things, is the part of our body that reacts to emotional situations. Yeah, so it gets butterflies when we're excited, and it gets sick when we're feeling nauseous with anxiety about something. This spot here on your cheek corresponds to your stomach. It sits on the stomach meridian, so it will calm your tummy nerves down. Even if you just use that one point, it would help. So it helps if you've eaten a bad curry too. Because I've travel in India so it doesn't have to be an emotional cause. And then underneath your nose is the next point, and then underneath your lip is the one after that, which is in the little bit that dips in so ye your lip and your chin. Then there's a colarbone point, and the best way to find that is to find either head of your collar bone at the go to the hollow of your throat and there's two heads to your collar bone, and choose one and come down below it, and there's

18:11 kind of like a dip between your clavical bone, your collar bone, and your first rib and your stern them. So that's the point there. I love this one. This is just my personal experience, and everyone needs to experiment for themselves. That's the best way. But I find this one really useful for when I'm doing head based work, so not when I'm really with clients, but if I'm doing writing or something and I've got three things to do at the same time and I'm not quite sure where to start, I'll kind of come straight to my collar bone, take a nice, big deep breath, and to me, it feels like my energy's just had a big windscreen wiper across it, and I can focus. I love that one. Good for when you're in front of the kitchen. I can hear you tapping as you're talking. Sorry, I always do it, which cue.

18:54 And then everybody's tapping along with us. I'm saying, So. The next quot's under your arm. Now, this one. I find it by it because it's a little bit tender. For most women, it's kind of where the top of their bra sits for most minutes, in line with the nipple. But don't worry too much, just kind of reach around, act like a monkey. So it's the side of your body basically where you're on the side of your bras strapped where it wraps around yet. And I don't know about ukas, but I find it feels a bit sore or sensitive, so I go, okay. Yeah, sometimes it does. Yeah. And then there's a point on the top of your head. Now you can tap right in the center, as if you were a marrying it puppet being pulled up, and that's where the string came out of. I quite like tapping almost. As if my hand's one of those head massage things, you know, like so tapping with my finger head or fingers.

19:37 I just like that. So that's how I do it these days. I didn't always do it like that, but that's how I do it now. Because we've got points all over our head. These are not the only meridian points you have. Clearly, if anyone's had acupuncture out there, flstic needles in your leg or tummy or whatever, it could be lying on the same meridian channel as your face that this is just a different way of stimulating that meridian with the face points. When you've got an issue and focused on it, just keep tapping until you feel enough of it has shifted, and your body will let you know you kind of feel this sense of I know for myself, if I'm feeling sick about something and I tap and I tap, I might need to tap for three minutes. I might need to tap for ten, depends on what I'm upset about. You just tap until you feel a sensation of it shifting. That's enough of the gunk out of the way. If you like, you can then introduce a couple of positive phrases. So for myself, i'd say things like, you know, if I'm using the job interview example, i'd tap for the fear would be I'm going to stuff it up.

20:36 I'm going to forget what I'm meant to say. They're going to think I'm an idiot. All those kind of thoughts would be my personal in my personal bag. And then we're all the same, We've all got the same bag. Exactly, we're all human. And then once I felt the shift, and once I felt more calm or the noise you're gone or whatever that just that shift, I'd then finish it off a couple of positive focused phrases such as, help me to connect with them today. You know, what if I can be calm, confident, and completely myself in this interview, what if it goes supremely well, I don't know. Whatever you task on those as well to kind of bed those more positive.

21:17 Yes, because if there's any reaction against that, that will come up, but it's most likely going to be lessened anyway. My provides I'm in teaching it that way is saying to clients, you wouldn't if you were a doctor or nurse, you wouldn't stitch up an infected wound without cleaning out the infection first. So don't jump to the happy ending. You've got to deal with the crap fist. You got to get from the crappy to the happy. Exactly exactly, And people often want to bypass the crappy, but that's just not possible. It's just going to pop up somewhere else. So you know, let you know, deal with the negative and then you know, create what you want to. And I love the phrase what if I can be calm flying to the UK when I've got a flying phobia.

21:58 I don't personally, but I see lots of clients who do. What if I can what if my body knows it's safe when I'm seeing my family at Christmas or. Whatever, whatever it might be. I like the phrase what if rather than an absolute statement, because affirmations and absolute statements can sometimes set us up for failure. Can you say, okay, I'm going to be powerful on the golf course and then you stuff it up, Well, then it's going to add to your list of things that make you think you're not good at whatever it is you want to be good at. But if you ask the question, what if, what if it's safe to let cigarettes go after I've they've been my only friend for twenty years? What if I can achieve that goal? It's asking a question, there's less pressure and it lets you open the door and come out and be it open.

22:42 It opens up the possibility, doesn't it. It's a nice exact way to just consider what might be possible without locking yourself in. And I know myself if I say the alternative, the what if has like an open feeling, an open hearted feeling, I can breathe through that, I can feel it. Whereas if I say, Okay, I'm gonna do this or that, to me, it feels a bit like there's a tension around it and almost an anxiety in itself around it, like I must do it, you know. So just play with that. With the tapping though, it really is about the meridian stimulation, so it really is. Don't get too caught up in the words. Just go with the feeling. I mean, how you access that feeling could be through words, It could be through a picture, It could be through a sensation, as a discussed earlier.

23:26 Now back to the energy toning idea. The reason why that's good is because we have a conscious mind, and we have a subconscious mind or an unconscious mind, and we're not in control of what's going on in our subconscious and so if I'm walking the dog, I might be feeling perfectly okay, but I don't know what's going on inside, you know, in the recesses of myself, so I may as well tap to help that shift and to help that kind of bubble up and evaporate. It's good for me. So it's another way of accessing the tap being technique. And as I said, it's really once you know it and once you feel comfortable using it, it's so discreet and you don't need to and what I've done in the past, as I've said in the beginning, you don't actually need to tap the points to get benefit from it.

24:14 You can touch the points. So when I've been in situations where I'm really exposed, like on live TV, I'll just touch the point and hold it, and to me, that's stimulating it. And I've been it reminds my energy system you're okay, you know you got this, yeah, And it gives me that reminder. And I think that's because I've done it for so long. But people don't have to do it for twenty years obviously to get benefit. I do encourage people when they're first learning it to do it. Daily if they can. Don't worry if they forget though, for a day. It's okay, we're all human. I forget to do it sometimes, and that's ridiculous because I teach people, but okay, I'm a human. I stay with meditation and me say exactly exactly. People expect us to be perfect. We're not perfect. What's perfect anyway, but to do it re for probably that first month or so, so your body, so you get used to how it feels, and you feel how it feels on your face and your fingers, and you try it out.

25:10 Basically, bottom line with tapping is just give it a go. Try it on whatever you want, because if you don't try I can tell you a thousand stories of myself, clients, my kids. It's beautiful for kids, but that's not going to mean anything to you unless you try it for yourself. And you can't do any harm with it, So I figure it's worth a go. Do you believe there is a right way and a wrong way? Because I know, you know, I've known about tapping for a very long time, and there's a lot of people who say, will you start with the karate job and the set up phrase? And I love and completely accept myself. I think that people get stuff to the right, Yeah, to do it wrong. What if I forget that step.

25:53 That's why I've made the transition. So back in ninety nine, I first learned it in that structured way, the EFT way. You get your set up, fray, you do your set up, you say it three times, blah blah blah. It works, but people don't do it because it feels too hard and it feels like when they're doing it with you, they feel like you've done it a certain ways, so they've got to emulate that and blah blah blah. So God bless Steve Wells and David Lake because they're the ones that came up with what they call set or simplified energy techniques shortcut. I kind of call the whole thing tapping. Yeah, I go, it's all tapping. Sometimes I have the odd client that likes the structured version. That's fine. I can teach it that way and they can learn it that way, but we evolve pretty quickly to make it a bit simpler. I can't even remember. I probably did the eve TA way for maybe five eight years something like that, but for the last ten.

26:37 Fifth, I don't know. For the last little while, long while I've been doing it in that more simplified way, and the reason being is you'll get more tapping out of your day. So my sex sessions with clients, not the whole session, but a chunk of our session. When they're telling me a story about what's going on for them, we're tapping continuously the whole time. Oh wow. And the reason we're doing that. Is because as they're talking about their partner, their parents, whatever it is that's troubling them, they're getting that reaction in their body. So let's get started. Let's not park it, do a phrase, do it? You know, it just become a bit it became a bit clunky. And we found another way, and I found that simpler to use. And I'm all about simple and easy.

27:17 So easy, yeah, and clients like it, then they're more likely to do it. I just wanted to add there that I attended a seminar about a year ago now with Bessel Vanderkock, whom most people haven't heard of, but he is the world's leading or one of the world's leading trauma therapists. He's at the leading edge. He does amazing work, and he uses tapping. Coming out again, isn't he? Yeah? He comes every year or two years or something, but he uses tapping. And he sat on the stage in front of you know, five hundred therapists and said, there'll be people who tell me that I do this wrong. I don't care. You can tell, you know, he said, yeah, it works for my clients. And until you can prove to me that I have to do it this way and say it this way, I'm just going to do it this way, your way, simple way. Yeah, exactly, you cannot do it wrong.

27:58 It's and it's having the yeah, because otherwise you're getting stuck on the wrong thing. You're not dealing with the problem. You're getting stuck on the fact that technique doing the technique wrong. Fuck that. Sorry, stuff that sorry, because it's just like it's a waste of time, so don't. It's very flexible. When I teach clients, I teach it in sequence. So I do teach it in order. That's simply to get used to the points. Once they know it, we can mix it up. You mix up the order you do it. Your body. Freestyle is your body and your intuition. Exactly. You might feel like I don't like the you know, I love the tummy, point, the cheek, one point you might not like it.

28:39 That's cool. You know, you don't have to spend as much time on that then or skip it. You don't have to actually get every point for the technique to work as well. So if people are out. There and they learn it and then they're out somewhere which where they getting anxious about something, if they can do two or three of the points, they'll get results. They'll get work. And as I said, you know, I can just do the collar bone and get some relief from just doing that point. So play with it, you know, be playful with it. It's such a flexible, forgiving tool that challenges people though people think they've got a follow step one. Yes, especially for people with anxiety let's face it, who are a little bit fearful anyway and perfectionist and got to do it the right way. Like that can actually get in people's way until they become more familiar.

29:22 I guess I can. And they're scared sometimes of doing it. So I'll play with that and we'll do some tapping on you know, this crazy technique's not going to work, Like we'll go there because that's partly what they're believing, Like bring it in that's absolutely fine. And I think I really love working with men. And even though this seems like a technique that men might not attach to, they really love it because it's something you're doing. You don't have to work out all the nuances of the emotions and what you're feeling and then get a result. You just start. You just do it. You know, I remember, I remember this. Oh, he's probably in his mid twenties, late twenties. Is climb of mine a long time ago and I and I used to teach it in like session two or session three because I didn't want to put people off. But now I just teach it straight up and go, you know what, like, I've got to give it to you early because otherwise I feel like I'm ripping them off. And I said to him in the first session, I've got to teach you this thing. It's a little bit unusual. And he goes, oh, it's not something weird and spiritual, is it? And I say, look it, he's weird. It will look weird, but just try it. Because he was feeling really anxious in his workplace, loved it, lapped it up, and men are often it's an activity that you're doing so it's not yeah, you don't have to. Women can think of ten thousand reasons why something might be a certain way, and we like to tick things off.

30:40 Men don't work that way. It's just like, Okay, I'm feeling like this, Try this, and I might feel free and get a better result at work or on the golf course whatever, or at home, Jackie. Now that more and more people are hearing about tapping, what I'm finding is that in all sorts of situations, coaches, you know, life's coaches, success coaches, people are teaching like, achieve your potential, overcome all of your limiting beliefs, your money blocks. Tappings the answer. As a psychologist, we've talked about the evidence for psychological struggles that people deal with. What's your take on using it for all and sundry kind of anything that holds you back in life.

31:24 It could work at a surface level. So when coaches are working with people, often it is at that surface level. However, it can tap into their deeper crap for one of a better word, like their deeper beliefs that have lived with them for a very long time. I think coaching can work like that. And so I have a little bit of a worry that they don't have the therapeutic training. Like I'm doing therapy with clients and I'm using tapping as a tool along with that, and so it's not that tapping is my therapy with clients. So I think if people are just aware of their limitations, like the coaches out there, if they're aware of their limitations and can re recognize when there's a deeper issue that pops up, it still would be worthwhile to refer them to a therapist because tapping is not going to be the only thing that solves them. However, it can work on the behaviors that might be holding them back and the anxiety. It can still work on the anxiety. It just might not work on the core root of that anxiety in the same way that it can be when you're in that therapy mode.

32:22 So just to tread with caution, you can't be the best therapist for every single person or the best coach for every single person. Don't take it personally if you're not getting the results, but refer them on. So I think it's it's a useful tool for yeah, for surface level things. I love using it for the deeper. Things though, So Jackie in the last twenty years, I assume you have seen thousands of people and helped them with all sorts of issues using tapping. Can you, for our listeners, give us a rundown of the types of things that you have that the types of problems that you have helped people ever come with tapping? Yeah, sure thing, I'll wrack my brain. There's lots so lots of people are scared of flying, flying, driving phobias and that can relate to bridges or being stuck in tunnels and things like that.

33:05 I've worked with lizard phobias, I've worked with. General and people come to see me about relationship issues too, so it's quite It can be quite a connecting tool to use in relationships once you've dealt with the crap. Remember, don't go to the happy ending too quickly. Work deferent a lot of aspects about people's working lives, and that can relate to dealing with a difficult boss or perhaps even a fear of lifts, fear of writer's block. I'm trying to just different clients are popping in my mind. I don't typically work a lot with children, however, I will see children to teach them tapping and then refer them on to a child psychologist. And the reason I do that is because children love it. It works really quickly for them. They don't need much and that can be in relation to anything that's important in a child's world, quitting smoking, quitting sugar. I mean, really, the possibilities are, unless we're tapping, you don't have to restrict it to something.

33:57 If there's something troubling, you give it a go. Is amazing. Thank you so much, Jackie. That's been really valuable information. I really want to know now for people who want to know more, If they're curious and they want to get started themselves, where can they go to get some more information? Okay, fantastic. If people want to just see how it's done, they can even access little YouTube clips where people are showing them how to tap. My website The Friendly Psychologist has a map of the points. Steve Wells and David Lank, the guys I referred to who develops set or simplified energy techniques is www dot eft down under dot com. They have a list of practitioners in Australia who have trained with them and done enough hours. So if people want those resources to access them. We all do Skype calls as well, so wherever people are they can organize a Skype appointment or even a phone appointment can work really well. I've had clients I've never met and I've taught tapping order over the phone, not even when Skype.

34:50 Was big, so it can work like that. In my upcoming show on Channel seven, The Super Switch, it'll be shown as a technique that I taught a couple of their a couple of the cast, and they took it and ran with it and had beautiful results. So that was really exciting for me that they took to it. Fantastic in a public way, fantastic and they were boys, so. The great skeptic of all exactly, Jackie Manning. This has been really, really fabulous. Thank you so much for sharing that with us. I hope that anybody who might have started off skeptical is no longer a skeptic and convinced of some of the benefits that they could potentially be getting from this technique.

35:31 Thank you, Cas. It's been great to chat about tapping and they can stay skeptical, just. Don't be seen in the car. Thank you. What I love about this conversation is that eft tapping is something that you can try in your own home. If you get results, great, If you don't, nothing lost. And if you want to find out more about Jackie and the work that she does, find her at Jackiemanning dot com dot AU. We love hearing from you, so if you love this show, please give it a rating and a review on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts, or get in touch with me personally hello at castdone dot com. Also, if you're interested in the Crappy to Happy book, which I've just released, It's available for order and the link is in the show notes, or you can come to my website cast done dot com. In the next episode, I'm talking to Jamilla Risbee, author and presenter, about the confidence deficit and how women can.

36:25 Be more confident in the workplace. Crappy to Happy is presented by Cast Dunn, produced by Daves Vilenski, Audio production by Darcy Thompson. Listener