June 14, 2021

Tapping into health with Peta Stapleton

Tapping into health with Peta Stapleton
Tapping into health with Peta Stapleton
Crappy to Happy
Tapping into health with Peta Stapleton
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Season 6Psychology & NeuroscienceGoals & Habits

In this episode, Cass talks with Dr Peta Stapleton who is an Associate Professor of Psychology at Bond University and a leading researcher in the area of Emotional Freedom Techniques. They chat about the latest research supporting EFT (tapping!) as a tool for managing stress, anxiety, food cravings, chronic pain and more. Far from being pseudoscience, tapping is now a recommended treatment for trauma, which is simple, free, effective and for many people, produces lasting results.Buy her book The Science Behind Tapping here: https://tinyurl.com/4hubrspp
Connect with Dr Stapleton:
www.petastapleton.comwww.instagram.com/petastapletonwww.facebook.com/petastapleton
Connect with Cass:www.crappytohappypod.comhello@crappytohappypod.com
www.instagram.com/crappytohappypodwww.tiktok.com/crappytohappypod
Join the free 7-day Happiness Challenge:www.cassdunn.com/happiness

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Transcript
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A listener production. This is Crappita Happy and I am

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your host Castunn. I'm a clinical and coaching psychologist and

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mindfulness meditation teacher and of course author of the Crappita

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Happy books. In this show, I bring you conversations with interesting, inspiring,

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intelligent people who are experts in their field and who

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have something of value to share that will help you

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feel less crappy and more happy. Today, I am very

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excited to introduce you to doctor Peter Stapleton, who has

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twenty five years of experience as a clinical and health

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psychologist here in Australia. She's an Associate professor in Psychology

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at Bond University and she is a world leading researcher

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in EFT that is emotional freedom techniques otherwise known as tapping.

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So Peter's research focuses on this fourth wave of psychological

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therapies that really focus on the mind body connection. And

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if you're a regular listener of this show, you will

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know that we've been talking a lot about this in

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recent episodes, which is why I was so excited to

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get Peter on to tell you all about the latest,

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most current research that is supporting tapping as a therapeutic intervention.

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I think you'll find this really fascinating. Here is my

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conversation with Peter, Doctor Peter Stapleton. Is such a pleasure

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to have you in the Crappy to have you studio today.

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Thank you for being here.

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Thanks so much, Cas. I really have been looking forward

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to this one, Peter.

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You know, I'm a fan of tapping, and on this

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show we actually had an episode on tapping a few

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years ago. I've got a friend who's a psychologist who's

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been using tapping in her practice for probably close to

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almost twenty years, over fifteen for sure, and we talked

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a little bit about some of the research then. But

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I think even in that time, the interest in EFT

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tapping has grown, the research has grown, and so I

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really want to to come back and revisit this topic.

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And this time goes straight to the source of a

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lot of that really fascinating research, which is where you

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come in. So it's really exciting for me to have

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you here. So, Peter, though, for anybody who is listening

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going who is still kind of new to this whole

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EFT tapping thing, how would you describe what it is?

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Yeah?

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Look, the most simple way I would actually describe EFT

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emotional freedom technique, so we nickname it. Of course, tapping

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is a way to reduce stress in the body, so

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it is simply a stress reduction technique. What it involves

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is obviously staying present to what's happening for you, but

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at the same time tapping with two fingers on an

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acupuncture point, so people might understand acupuncture instead of needles,

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we just tap on an acupuncture point into instead. So

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really its most simple definition is it is just a

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way to reduce stress in the body.

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Yeah, And so essentially we're using our two fingers to

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just tap light. I typically tap maybe eight times on

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a particular point, and we go around a series of

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points on the face and parts of the body, right,

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so we just tap tap tap.

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That's right, yes, yeah, so it is tap tap tap,

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and it does just follow a fairly simple kind of

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recipe if you like. You know, there's only eight points

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that we actually tap on, and you're right, you know,

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you might tap seven or eight times on each. Mostly

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we're staying focused on what it is that we're feeling,

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which kind of makes it a little bit counterintuitive to

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some other talk therapy approaches that maybe you know, encourage

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you to sort of find the silver lining or think

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more differently, we actually stay present. So if I feel angry,

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that's what I say when I'm actually tapping on those points.

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And we'll get into the research, I'm sure, but how

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that works in the brain to actually shift the feeling

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of anger is quite profound.

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Yes, I am very very interested to get to get

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into how that works. So generally speaking, Peter, you are

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a clinician as well as a researcher, which is really exciting.

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So from your experience both as a treating practitioner and

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as a researcher, what kinds of problems can be effectively addressed, resolved,

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improved using tapping.

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Yeah, look, it's wide ranging, and sometimes that kind of

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makes people sort of think, oh, how can it work

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for so many different things? So everything from perhaps clinical

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issues like post traumatic stress disorder or phobias, anxiety, stress disorders,

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that type of thing, as well as things like depression,

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but then also everyday kind of issues, even chronic pain.

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We're currently doing research in that space. It might even

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be things like just an annoyance that's going on for you.

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So it is quite wide ranging. Children as young as

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four and five years of old age can actually do tapping

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as well, just on how they feel insomnia, sleep issues,

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things like that. And the reason why it does have

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an impact on all of those different areas is because

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if at any level is playing a role and we

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come the body down and reduce stress, whether that's hormonally

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or just as a feeling state, then we seem to

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get a shift in the other symptoms that might belong to,

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you know, whatever it is, even addiction and things like that.

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So certainly, you know, I've had people sort of say, well,

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it seems curious that it doesn't just work for a

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kind of a group of conditions but everything out there.

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And that's really the most simplistic answer is if there's

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stress involved and you can calm the body down, then

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you will feel differently afterwards and you might make a

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different choice. So I'm quite known for my food craving

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weight loss research in this typing space, and what we

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actually do is obviously reduce the craving response to certain foods,

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and if that happens, then people don't want to eat

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the food anymore, so of course they lose weight over time.

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So yeah, just if everybody kind of keeps their mind

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around that idea is that if you reduce stress and

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you feel pretty calm, lots of things can change in

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your life.

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That is a really great way of thinking about it,

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because when you think about it, so much of the

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problems we experience, as you say, all encompassing, if there is,

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they all create some kind of stress or dysregulation or

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disharmony in our body. So hence why tapping can be

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so effective in so many areas. Yeah, interesting that you

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mentioned food cravings because I did have Glenn McIntosh on

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the show a little while ago, and he certainly mentioned

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tapping as part of his conversation as well, which I

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know is why a lot of people will be really

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interested to him more about that. So, Peter, I know

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that last time when I spoke to my friend Jackie

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about this, my gleaning of the research at the time

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was that this had been shown to be pretty effective

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with as you said, PTSD and predominantly anxiety type disorders.

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From a research perspective, like, how has had that expanded now?

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Like what's the evidence now to show the clinical or well,

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you know, sort of therapeutic effectiveness.

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Absolutely, So, I would say the last decade has really

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seen an exponential growth in the clinical research coming out

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of universities worldwide.

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We obviously do our here Upon University.

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And what really has happened in this EFT tapping space

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is it has been subjected to a lot of physiological

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biological clinical trials, which I think is really different to

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a lot of other talk therapies out there that typically

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and we do too, just use self report measures. So

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really what we've been able to show in the last

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decade is that tapping on these acupuncture points has a

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profound impact and effect not only things like the amygdala,

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the stress center, but you know eeg brainwave scan, So

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they've been looked at to see that tapping actually brings

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them into a more coherent kind of wave state, including

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heart ratevability, those sorts of things.

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Cortisol we test quite regularly.

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We've done that here in Australia, it's done in the

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US for different conditions to see that happing actually has

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an impact on cortisol. So even one hour of tapping

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did we replicated a trial a couple of years ago.

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Our group that sat tapping compared to two other conditions

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had a forty three percent reduction in cortisol in one

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hour like to have that kind of profound that has

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an impact on weight for a lot of people, Yes,

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stress hormone, whereas we were just teaching them how to

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use it for stress. We had two other comparisons in

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that a talk therapy based standard kind of approach and

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a reading relaxation group that read magazines.

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Now, the reading group had an increase of.

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Cortsol that actually really worse. It doesn't really kind of

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help you relax if you just take time out.

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But our talk.

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Therapy group, I only had a nineteen percent reduction in

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that one hour learning about what stress is, so definitely

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tapping kind of really stood out there. Proud to say

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that the American Psychological Association published that study in one

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of their key journals, which is quite quite a big

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kind of thing in the academic world to have like

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the APA sort of publish that. But coming back to

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our biological research, we've even done an fMRI study, so

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a brain scan study here in Australia which is published

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and then these scans are on my website.

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Anyone can go and have a look at them.

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So we taught people, we put them inside the machine,

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showed them pictures of high calorie foods, saw which parts

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of the brain fired, and then we sent them away

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for a four week tapping program, so eight hours over

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four weeks on food issues. Brought them back five weeks later,

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put them inside the machine, scanned them again looking at

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those calories and the reduction in so you can actually

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see these brain images on my website. The reduction in

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activity in the brain in the reward and loss pleasure

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center is so dramatic you can't even see it. We

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say it was lit up like a Christmas tree, and

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then four weeks later after tapping, and which corresponded to

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the people coming out and saying I didn't really have

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any desire to want to eat those foods, even though

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they did four weeks four weeks earlier, which we could.

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Obviously clearly see.

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And we're about to do an fMRI study in the

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chronic pain area in the coming couple of months. So yeah,

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there's lots of stuff that's coming out. We're sitting at

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now about two hundred and fifty clinical trials published on

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EFT worldwide.

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Lots of different areas covered in that.

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But it is certainly it's now got government acceptance in

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the UK and the US, and we have aspects here

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in Australia hospitals that include it. So it is growing,

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and I think it is a space to kind of

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watch because it's quite different in that level of biological

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research that's actually coming out. A couple of DNA studies

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have actually been done in the US, and one particular

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study showed one hour of tapping change the expression of

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seventy two genes in the bottom. Now they were genes, yeah,

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attached to inflammation, immunity, cancer suppression. Now, if a gene

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is upregulated or is expressing itself, we tend to have

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a symptom if it's down regulated and not expressing itself.

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Tapping change seventy two genes expression. Another study showed ten

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sessions of EFT. Now this was for post traumatic stress disorder,

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So ten weeks of tapping actually changed the expression of

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six genes associated with PTSD, and six months later those

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war vets still didn't meet criteria and the genes hadn't

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kind of you know, started expressing themselves again. So we

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literally have this technique taving on these actipressure points, which

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I just.

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Think is profound, and we can change gene expression.

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So I don't know anything else out there I'm pretty

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excited to stay in this space.

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It is profound, as you said, and I think that

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is that why people still tend to be a bit skeptical.

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People feel like surely not like, surely it can't be

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that simple, But really the science is saying that, yes,

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it can be and lasting.

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Yeah, And I think you know, you're absolutely right. We

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probably are a little bit conditioned to want things to.

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Be a bit harder, or if we've had an issue

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for a long time in our life lives, we might.

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Expect that it should therefore take a long time to

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overcome or to get relief from.

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And the reality of neuroplasticity and how the brain works

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is that doesn't even match what we understand about the brain.

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The brain likes to learn fast and quickly. So if

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there's a technique that actually matches that, Eft's one, there

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are other ones, so EMDR the eye movement one and

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a couple other somatic based ones very similar. If it

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matches that ability to kind of release quickly.

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The brain's happy with that.

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We don't necessarily need twenty four sessions over two years

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to because that doesn't match what neuroplasticity tells us about

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the brain's way of learning. So if cost effectiveness or

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something like that's an issue or time, certainly these techniques

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that have lots of evidence wrapped around their rapid ability

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I think suit a lot more people. So I forever say, look,

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just stay open. If someone's listening going oh I don't

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know about this, or and it's like, well give it

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a go. Research is there. What have you got to

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lose kind of thing, But at least stay open to

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the possibility that lots of these things actually will get

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your relief a lot faster than some of the traditional ways.

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Yeah. I recently also had doctor Nicole Leperre on the podcast,

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so she's the holistic right, it's good, It's great, isn't it.

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Obviously anybody who hasn't listened you should. But she's the

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holistic psychologist on Instagram, so she has millions of followers,

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and she posted something I noticed about tapping on her

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Instagram to her three and a half million followers, and

254
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somebody in the comments wrote, look, I really love your work,

255
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but if you're going to go talking about this pseudo

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science while I'm unfollowing, like, you're just reducing your credibility

257
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when you start talking about this you know, woo woo whatever.

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I thought, that's so interesting that there are still people

259
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who take that attitude, which is why I thought it

260
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was so important to have you on to to dispel

261
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some of that, because there are still people who really

262
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don't don't not know probably about the research that supports it.

263
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Yeah, and look, there is in the medical research field

264
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something that's called the translational gap, where the suggestion is

265
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it takes about seventeen years on average, so sometimes a little.

266
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Bit more a little bit less for a.

267
00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:21.000
New therapy to be accepted into mainstream. So that translational

268
00:14:21.039 --> 00:14:25.159
gap happens across lots of different fields medicine therapy, and

269
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their suggestion is only four percent of therapies that are

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kind of being tested that a new will.

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Make it across that.

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Now we've probably had the last fifteen years in the

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EFT research world really have solid research come out, so

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we're approaching that seventeen year mark. So it doesn't surprise

275
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me that people still might go, m look at Wikipedia,

276
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might say it's a pseudo science because anyone can edit

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the Wikipedia.

278
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Page kind of thing.

279
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Versus actually, if you're going to have a look at

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the two hundred and fifty clinical trials, ninety eight percent

281
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of them show positive outcomes, and I think that shift

282
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is happening, but we are still se just below that

283
00:15:01.200 --> 00:15:05.480
translational gap kind of idea. But you know, it took

284
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about twenty years for EMDR to be accepted into mainstream

285
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and even though that's now considered a gold standard, if

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you went back twenty five years ago to my university days,

287
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everybody would have said, that's absolute rubbish.

288
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How can moving your eyes, so I decide, have an

289
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impact on trauma? And now it's a gold standard for trauma.

290
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So I like to give that.

291
00:15:24.080 --> 00:15:26.840
Comparison to sort of say, look, you know, EFT and

292
00:15:26.879 --> 00:15:30.120
tapping is kind of working in a similar space in

293
00:15:30.200 --> 00:15:33.039
timeframes as well, So five years time we might be

294
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having a different conversation.

295
00:15:34.600 --> 00:15:38.000
It is a slow old process, isn't it getting anything?

296
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To kind of just getting that science to catch up

297
00:15:42.360 --> 00:15:45.240
with what you know. For example, my friend Jackie who

298
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said fifteen twenty years ago, look, I don't know how

299
00:15:47.799 --> 00:15:49.679
it works. I just know that it's helping my client,

300
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So I'm going to keep doing it as long as

301
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it keeps helping people. We were the same, so that's

302
00:15:55.960 --> 00:15:59.200
right exactly. So it's a frustration, but you know, it's

303
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just a part of the process. I guess, Peter, I

304
00:16:02.320 --> 00:16:06.320
know that there are you know, you talked about the

305
00:16:07.960 --> 00:16:09.919
we can see the corsol and we can see the

306
00:16:10.039 --> 00:16:13.080
changes in the new you know, the fMRI studies about

307
00:16:13.080 --> 00:16:17.440
what's happening in the brain. Do we actually know how

308
00:16:17.720 --> 00:16:20.279
or why that happens? Like, are we any closer to

309
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understanding what's actually happening in the body when we touch

310
00:16:23.320 --> 00:16:24.279
these points?

311
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Yeah? So not us, But Harvard University actually did a

312
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teen year definitive study where they mapped all of the

313
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acupuncture points in the body. So they actually, which is fabulous,

314
00:16:36.879 --> 00:16:38.759
a couple of papers published out of there where they

315
00:16:38.799 --> 00:16:41.840
were just looking at what people sometimes call, you know,

316
00:16:41.919 --> 00:16:45.679
the meridian system in Chinese kind of acupuncture fields and

317
00:16:46.039 --> 00:16:49.320
complementary medicine areas. You might have seen one of those charts,

318
00:16:49.360 --> 00:16:50.600
you know, if you've ever gone off to have a

319
00:16:50.600 --> 00:16:54.080
massage or something like that. So they actually over time

320
00:16:54.639 --> 00:16:58.679
mapped all of those and showed definitively that where we

321
00:16:59.360 --> 00:17:02.480
or where medicine have typically said there's an acupuncture point,

322
00:17:02.519 --> 00:17:07.079
there is indeed a density of that vascular structure that

323
00:17:07.160 --> 00:17:10.319
comes together it's actually showed and that's published in scientific

324
00:17:10.359 --> 00:17:13.400
journals that where an acupuncturist might put a need or

325
00:17:13.759 --> 00:17:17.440
that is indeed a density and other areas of body

326
00:17:17.480 --> 00:17:20.039
that don't have that. And we actually have studies that

327
00:17:20.400 --> 00:17:24.240
include sham tapping or sham acupuncture where a needle is

328
00:17:24.279 --> 00:17:27.640
put somewhere where there isn't a known sort of density

329
00:17:27.640 --> 00:17:31.039
of that vascular structure. And of course the results absolutely

330
00:17:31.079 --> 00:17:34.920
show when you do sham or placebo like that, people

331
00:17:35.000 --> 00:17:38.880
don't get the effect, even if they are unaware. They

332
00:17:38.960 --> 00:17:41.160
might think that, oh, yeah, that's the tapping point, but

333
00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:43.839
there's not actually one there kind of thing. So they've

334
00:17:43.880 --> 00:17:46.200
been done in EFT, they've been done by people that

335
00:17:46.319 --> 00:17:48.759
actually are trying to disprove, but they still come up

336
00:17:48.799 --> 00:17:50.880
with those results that the group that get the true

337
00:17:51.200 --> 00:17:55.119
ef T on a known acupuncture point get the outcomes.

338
00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:59.160
So there is something about the actual stimulation of an

339
00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:02.920
acupressure point that has that effect that direct message back

340
00:18:02.960 --> 00:18:05.480
to the amygdala, which is the stress center in the brain.

341
00:18:05.599 --> 00:18:06.440
That kind of thing.

342
00:18:06.559 --> 00:18:10.920
So we've got other theories. Memory reconsolidation is one of

343
00:18:10.960 --> 00:18:14.680
them that suggests how it lasts so quickly over time.

344
00:18:14.720 --> 00:18:15.640
And how it works.

345
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And the proposal there is that if you bring up

346
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an emotional state that's distressing or uncomfortable, but at the

347
00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:26.759
same time that that's happening in the brain, you do

348
00:18:26.799 --> 00:18:29.880
something that's the opposite. So tapping for us is the

349
00:18:29.880 --> 00:18:33.039
calming technique, but someone else might do the eye movements,

350
00:18:33.240 --> 00:18:36.079
someone else might do some sort of breathing technique. If

351
00:18:36.119 --> 00:18:38.960
at the same time you've got the brain can't hold

352
00:18:39.519 --> 00:18:43.319
a negative, distressing feeling and a calming one, turns out

353
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the calming one wins.

354
00:18:44.799 --> 00:18:46.319
So if you repeat it enough.

355
00:18:46.440 --> 00:18:49.200
You give the brain a different kind of experience and

356
00:18:49.319 --> 00:18:51.880
that starts to sort of, if you like, pull apart

357
00:18:51.920 --> 00:18:56.079
that association. So memory reconsolidation is the reason why if

358
00:18:56.119 --> 00:18:58.279
you're doing it at the same time, which often people

359
00:18:58.319 --> 00:19:01.079
when they start having they say why am I saying

360
00:19:01.160 --> 00:19:02.319
my problem?

361
00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:04.680
It's like you have to engage in it enough for

362
00:19:04.720 --> 00:19:05.440
this to work.

363
00:19:05.480 --> 00:19:07.880
That you've got to bring it up just enough then

364
00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:12.240
do the tapping that you get that opposite response that's there.

365
00:19:12.359 --> 00:19:15.640
So and just a bit of a nerdy moment, what

366
00:19:15.680 --> 00:19:18.519
we're doing here at Bond University is we've actually partnered

367
00:19:18.599 --> 00:19:21.839
with Stephen Porge's team at Indiana University in the US

368
00:19:22.119 --> 00:19:26.640
polyvagel theory are now testing so excited it's my nerd moment.

369
00:19:26.519 --> 00:19:29.920
Of plow yes, I'm here for it. I'm here for it.

370
00:19:31.400 --> 00:19:34.960
So we are actually measuring in our chronic paintrol that's

371
00:19:35.240 --> 00:19:40.440
currently happening vaguel tone and efficiency with a little device,

372
00:19:41.200 --> 00:19:44.799
and their team analyzed the data for us because their

373
00:19:44.880 --> 00:19:49.160
team and Ow's are starting to theorize that EFTs probably

374
00:19:49.200 --> 00:19:51.920
have been quite an impact on vagel tone and efficiency,

375
00:19:51.920 --> 00:19:54.359
which is why you know, we've done two years follow

376
00:19:54.440 --> 00:19:57.240
up on our food craving weight loss trials and two

377
00:19:57.319 --> 00:19:59.680
years later, people can't remember the food that they did

378
00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:02.799
on nor do they eat it anymore, and they haven't

379
00:20:02.839 --> 00:20:03.559
for two years.

380
00:20:03.960 --> 00:20:06.799
And it's like, why do you have to not keep tapping?

381
00:20:07.079 --> 00:20:07.920
You know, shouldn't you.

382
00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:10.480
Keep tapping every time you see the cockroach in the

383
00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:12.920
corner or the chocolate cake on the counter, But you

384
00:20:12.960 --> 00:20:13.519
don't have to.

385
00:20:13.720 --> 00:20:16.079
Once it's collapsed, you appear not to need it.

386
00:20:16.119 --> 00:20:19.400
And the suggestion there is that we're moving into hopefully

387
00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:23.079
being able to show that we're improving bagel tone, which means,

388
00:20:23.480 --> 00:20:25.920
you know, get triggered anymore down the track, same with

389
00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:28.480
the PTSD patients that you know get followed up and

390
00:20:28.519 --> 00:20:29.400
things like that as well.

391
00:20:29.599 --> 00:20:33.400
So a couple of different things. It is. And I recently.

392
00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:36.920
Said to a committee here at Bond University we were

393
00:20:36.920 --> 00:20:39.920
talking about these kind of things that we probably did

394
00:20:39.920 --> 00:20:41.960
it a little bit differently in this field. We went

395
00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:45.039
out and we showed that it worked. Now we're actually

396
00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:48.160
coming back to sort of talking about what's going on here,

397
00:20:48.599 --> 00:20:51.279
So that's where we're at, which is very exciting. I

398
00:20:51.319 --> 00:20:55.359
still think, you know, polyvagel theory, memory reconsolidation are sound

399
00:20:55.519 --> 00:20:58.599
theories that already exist, and we might be able to

400
00:20:58.640 --> 00:21:00.640
kind of talk about this in a couple of is time.

401
00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:02.759
With what we're gathering at the moment.

402
00:21:06.279 --> 00:21:09.559
I hope that you're enjoying this conversation and realizing the

403
00:21:09.599 --> 00:21:12.519
benefits of positivity in your own life. If you are

404
00:21:12.640 --> 00:21:15.359
enjoying the show, please be sure to like and subscribe

405
00:21:15.359 --> 00:21:17.720
so that you get notified when you EPPS drop and

406
00:21:17.799 --> 00:21:20.240
head on over to Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen

407
00:21:20.279 --> 00:21:29.559
and leave us a rating and review. You mentioned something

408
00:21:29.599 --> 00:21:32.359
interesting then, Peter about sham tapping. I think this is

409
00:21:32.400 --> 00:21:36.039
really important, So it is not just about tapping anywhere

410
00:21:36.079 --> 00:21:38.799
you like on your body, there are certain points. Can

411
00:21:38.839 --> 00:21:41.759
you just for listeners, can you just please explain that

412
00:21:41.799 --> 00:21:45.200
research about testing tapping on different points and how that

413
00:21:45.279 --> 00:21:46.920
doesn't necessarily work.

414
00:21:47.359 --> 00:21:51.240
Yeah, it is really important to make sure that that

415
00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:54.039
kind of research does get done. And interestingly enough, in

416
00:21:54.039 --> 00:21:57.400
the tapping world, those studies have been run by people

417
00:21:57.400 --> 00:22:01.799
that weren't necessarily tapping research, so they were quite unbiased,

418
00:22:01.839 --> 00:22:04.160
which is a really good thing, and they were perhaps

419
00:22:04.240 --> 00:22:06.519
even trying to show that it doesn't work, So we

420
00:22:06.559 --> 00:22:09.279
call them dismantling studies. A lot of the time where

421
00:22:09.799 --> 00:22:13.079
it might be that there's quite a few conditions.

422
00:22:12.359 --> 00:22:14.400
To see what's the active ingredient here.

423
00:22:14.440 --> 00:22:17.799
So one group might just say the words that people

424
00:22:17.839 --> 00:22:20.039
say in the tapping sequence but with no tapping.

425
00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:21.519
Another group might.

426
00:22:21.480 --> 00:22:24.440
Say the words but do deep breathing instead of tapping,

427
00:22:25.160 --> 00:22:27.960
just to see is that having the impact. Another group

428
00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:30.839
will tap on the normal tapping points, but then.

429
00:22:30.920 --> 00:22:33.599
A fourth group might actually tap on sham points.

430
00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:37.200
So that is where out of Harvard's research, there's an

431
00:22:37.279 --> 00:22:39.359
unidentified acupuncture point.

432
00:22:39.400 --> 00:22:40.480
And I can let you know that.

433
00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:44.359
The underneath your forum there are none there. For example,

434
00:22:44.359 --> 00:22:46.519
there's none on the palm of your hand. So the

435
00:22:46.519 --> 00:22:49.480
best dismantling studies will use the palm of the hand

436
00:22:49.880 --> 00:22:53.359
on that area as sort of a flat tapping because

437
00:22:53.359 --> 00:22:57.079
there's no known acupuncture point. I'll give you one example.

438
00:22:57.160 --> 00:23:00.119
There was a sham study done, quite a robust one

439
00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:03.079
on test anxiety, so you know, getting a bit worked

440
00:23:03.119 --> 00:23:05.079
up about doing an exam, that type of thing, or

441
00:23:05.119 --> 00:23:08.519
a performance. So they had one group do traditional tapping,

442
00:23:08.759 --> 00:23:11.079
talk about their stress and tap on the pressure points.

443
00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:11.799
Another group that.

444
00:23:11.799 --> 00:23:14.759
Did that open palm on the underneath it be for

445
00:23:15.519 --> 00:23:17.720
but again still do the normal words that kind of thing.

446
00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:20.279
Now, the sham group got about an eight.

447
00:23:20.119 --> 00:23:24.599
Percent reduction in their anxiousness, but the group that did

448
00:23:24.640 --> 00:23:27.519
the tapping on the actual points got a thirty nine

449
00:23:27.680 --> 00:23:32.720
percent average reduction, and that's statistically significant. So the difference

450
00:23:32.799 --> 00:23:35.119
is but they don't know. Typically the groups don't know

451
00:23:35.160 --> 00:23:38.759
they're getting the sham condition. So obviously plasce ebo effect

452
00:23:39.000 --> 00:23:41.559
can be helpful. It's like, oh, this might help me,

453
00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:46.000
but indeed, not actually hitting an ACTI pressure point is

454
00:23:46.039 --> 00:23:48.960
actually shown not to really have the impact. So you're right,

455
00:23:49.319 --> 00:23:51.359
we can't just sort of walk around and having anywhere

456
00:23:51.519 --> 00:23:52.640
we actually need to.

457
00:23:52.680 --> 00:23:54.319
And there's pressure points everywhere.

458
00:23:54.359 --> 00:23:57.079
Anyone that sort of trained in kinesiology might know other

459
00:23:57.160 --> 00:24:00.000
pressure points. We just use eight of them to make

460
00:24:00.079 --> 00:24:02.400
get nice and easy. We've got a recipe to follow.

461
00:24:02.920 --> 00:24:05.440
They work in the clinical research. If you want to

462
00:24:05.440 --> 00:24:07.519
add a few more in you know about, that's okay

463
00:24:07.559 --> 00:24:07.960
as well.

464
00:24:08.039 --> 00:24:10.160
If you want to drop a few out, that's okay.

465
00:24:10.519 --> 00:24:12.680
But it just makes it easier to sort of test

466
00:24:12.720 --> 00:24:13.400
and replicate.

467
00:24:13.559 --> 00:24:16.119
Yeah, and I want to come back to that as well.

468
00:24:16.119 --> 00:24:18.079
But the other thing I first wanted to mention before

469
00:24:18.119 --> 00:24:24.559
I forget is I heard you talking recently about imagined tapping,

470
00:24:24.680 --> 00:24:28.720
imaginal tapping, which I think is so fascinating given what

471
00:24:28.759 --> 00:24:32.640
we know about mental rehearsal in terms of look athletes

472
00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:36.960
who imagine themselves practicing the shot and they still get improvements.

473
00:24:37.160 --> 00:24:40.039
Can you talk about that in relation to tapping.

474
00:24:39.799 --> 00:24:40.640
Yeah, fantastic.

475
00:24:41.000 --> 00:24:44.039
So for a long time in the pain space or

476
00:24:44.039 --> 00:24:47.599
if someone's got insomnia, we've kind of always suggested, look,

477
00:24:47.759 --> 00:24:50.400
if you can't physically tap at the time, but you

478
00:24:50.400 --> 00:24:56.200
could imagine tapping. What we understand about that imaginal rehearsal. Certainly,

479
00:24:56.240 --> 00:24:59.200
you know there's lots of Olympic teams US at the

480
00:24:59.400 --> 00:25:02.480
Navy Seal use it in the US, lots of astronauts

481
00:25:02.480 --> 00:25:05.000
are trained in it. So if you do mental rehearsal,

482
00:25:05.319 --> 00:25:07.839
there's an understanding that the brain will still activate. So

483
00:25:07.880 --> 00:25:10.599
we were borrowing on that to sort of suggest to people, look,

484
00:25:10.680 --> 00:25:13.839
just imagine tapping but still say the words in your

485
00:25:13.839 --> 00:25:15.319
mind or whatever. But if you don't want to wake

486
00:25:15.359 --> 00:25:16.519
someone up in the middle of the night, but you

487
00:25:16.559 --> 00:25:18.279
need to tap to go back to sleep. So that

488
00:25:18.359 --> 00:25:21.839
was great and then early this year twenty twenty one,

489
00:25:22.279 --> 00:25:26.599
German researchers released a trial where they had people go

490
00:25:26.720 --> 00:25:30.960
inside and fMRI machine so MRI and do functional MRI,

491
00:25:31.559 --> 00:25:35.680
where they asked them they'd shown them images before they

492
00:25:35.720 --> 00:25:39.720
went in that were kind of of a disgust nature.

493
00:25:39.759 --> 00:25:41.640
So I have the image that would making go, oh,

494
00:25:41.640 --> 00:25:44.680
that's yuck. So when they went inside the machine, they

495
00:25:44.759 --> 00:25:48.119
asked them to think about that image. And they'd already

496
00:25:48.119 --> 00:25:53.240
taught them some tapping sequences, and they said, imagine tapping

497
00:25:53.839 --> 00:25:56.440
while you're in there thinking of the discussed image that

498
00:25:56.480 --> 00:26:00.240
you've just seen, so that they could actually see does.

499
00:26:00.160 --> 00:26:02.960
That have any impact not only subjectively on the person.

500
00:26:02.720 --> 00:26:05.480
Going oh, I feel better now, but the brain and

501
00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:08.400
they're the first study that's now been published that showed

502
00:26:09.079 --> 00:26:12.880
actual activation in the brain doing imaginal tapping. So we

503
00:26:12.920 --> 00:26:15.680
actually now have more to suggest that if you need

504
00:26:15.720 --> 00:26:17.559
to just imagine, oh you're sitting in a meeting and

505
00:26:17.599 --> 00:26:20.599
you don't want to actively tap, if you imagine tapping,

506
00:26:20.599 --> 00:26:23.400
as long as you're still saying the words of what you're.

507
00:26:23.200 --> 00:26:24.759
Feeling, it works.

508
00:26:25.039 --> 00:26:27.839
So that study has actually been published now by German researchers.

509
00:26:27.920 --> 00:26:29.759
Was just so interesting, isn't it.

510
00:26:29.920 --> 00:26:31.200
Actually?

511
00:26:32.119 --> 00:26:35.000
Yes, the other thing you just mentioned, Peter is if

512
00:26:35.039 --> 00:26:38.279
you know other points, tap on them. But you know

513
00:26:38.319 --> 00:26:41.480
there are places where you shouldn't be tapping because there's

514
00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:43.480
no point, there's no active pressure points, So that's not

515
00:26:43.519 --> 00:26:46.599
going to have any benefit. I wanted to talk to

516
00:26:46.640 --> 00:26:50.680
you about. I've sat in seminars with Bethel Vanderkolt, for example,

517
00:26:50.720 --> 00:26:53.119
you know, leading trauma researchers who have been talking about

518
00:26:53.119 --> 00:26:57.839
things like tapping for a long time, and people will say, look,

519
00:26:58.319 --> 00:27:01.240
just tap, you know, like I don't get too hung

520
00:27:01.359 --> 00:27:05.200
up on specific processes and protocols and the words that

521
00:27:05.279 --> 00:27:06.960
you say or the order that you do it in

522
00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:09.480
and all of that sort of stuff. So and I

523
00:27:09.480 --> 00:27:12.799
think this is where people get a bit stark or

524
00:27:12.839 --> 00:27:17.759
confused because there is a protocol, isn't there. Like, in

525
00:27:17.880 --> 00:27:21.240
order to conduct research, we need to follow a very

526
00:27:21.240 --> 00:27:24.920
specific protocol to ensure that everybody's getting the same intervention

527
00:27:25.160 --> 00:27:27.519
exactly like we have to do with CBT or ACT

528
00:27:27.599 --> 00:27:31.480
or any other clinical intervention. But when it comes to

529
00:27:31.480 --> 00:27:33.640
sitting at home and I'm feeling really stressed or anxious

530
00:27:33.720 --> 00:27:36.200
or having a food craving, Like, what of the basics

531
00:27:36.200 --> 00:27:40.160
that people just need to remember and where do they

532
00:27:40.200 --> 00:27:42.720
can they kind of let go of any need for

533
00:27:43.000 --> 00:27:45.960
processes and doing it right and all of that stuff.

534
00:27:46.039 --> 00:27:47.359
Yeah, and it's a really good point.

535
00:27:47.440 --> 00:27:50.000
Yes, we follow all those kind of strict, really strict

536
00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:52.359
protocols so that research can be replicated. And that's all

537
00:27:52.400 --> 00:27:55.279
fantastic for evidence. But if someone was just at home,

538
00:27:55.640 --> 00:27:58.039
if you were in an emotional state, so you felt

539
00:27:58.039 --> 00:27:59.880
really stressed, or you came home and something was just

540
00:28:00.039 --> 00:28:02.440
sort of you know, making a bit irritable, or or

541
00:28:02.519 --> 00:28:06.079
there's a craving brewing. If you're in the physical state,

542
00:28:06.200 --> 00:28:08.960
you don't even need to think about words to say

543
00:28:09.119 --> 00:28:13.079
because you're already activated. If you were to just start

544
00:28:13.119 --> 00:28:16.279
tapping while you're in that state, you will have an effect.

545
00:28:16.359 --> 00:28:18.400
So even if you're not saying any words, and we

546
00:28:18.680 --> 00:28:21.519
sometimes just say, you know, just tap and breathe.

547
00:28:21.759 --> 00:28:23.920
So just tap and breathe as you're going.

548
00:28:24.039 --> 00:28:25.960
As long as you're tapping on some of those known

549
00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:30.200
acupressure points, because you're in the state, you will get

550
00:28:30.200 --> 00:28:30.759
a shift.

551
00:28:31.119 --> 00:28:33.440
It may not be that you end up kind of

552
00:28:33.559 --> 00:28:35.240
finding out and unpacking where this.

553
00:28:35.319 --> 00:28:37.920
Came from, but it may not matter because in that moment,

554
00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:40.920
like Besil talks about, you get yourself back in that

555
00:28:41.039 --> 00:28:43.519
window of tolerance to be able to just cope in

556
00:28:43.519 --> 00:28:46.359
the moment. So many times I might do that too,

557
00:28:46.359 --> 00:28:48.279
where I'm like something just sort of you know, it's

558
00:28:48.279 --> 00:28:49.440
a bit overwhelming, and I'm like.

559
00:28:49.359 --> 00:28:50.920
I'm just going to tap in the moment just for this.

560
00:28:51.039 --> 00:28:52.079
I don't have to say anything.

561
00:28:52.440 --> 00:28:56.039
I'm just going to calm my body down physiologically. So

562
00:28:56.160 --> 00:28:59.920
tap and breathe is fantastic. It works in that respect

563
00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:03.680
for children who are nonverbal. So it does tell us

564
00:29:03.720 --> 00:29:07.559
that if you're in an agitated state and you actually

565
00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:10.799
tap on a pressure point, you will actually calm the

566
00:29:10.839 --> 00:29:13.960
body down. Dawson Church and I Dawson of course runs

567
00:29:13.960 --> 00:29:17.599
eft Universe, one of the big training organizations. We published

568
00:29:17.599 --> 00:29:19.240
a paper a couple of years ago that was a

569
00:29:19.240 --> 00:29:23.720
meta analysis where we definitively showed from the sham tapping

570
00:29:23.920 --> 00:29:27.559
and other research the actual tapping on an acupuncture point

571
00:29:27.720 --> 00:29:30.160
is the active ingredient in tapping, not the words that

572
00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:32.880
you say. So as long as you're in the state

573
00:29:33.559 --> 00:29:36.640
and you're tapping, it works, and it will work for

574
00:29:36.759 --> 00:29:40.039
children who are on the spectrum on nonverbal We have

575
00:29:40.119 --> 00:29:42.799
lots of kind of you know schools that have those

576
00:29:42.880 --> 00:29:44.759
children where we've taught them tapping and they just use

577
00:29:44.799 --> 00:29:48.119
it as a regulation tool. So I think, you know,

578
00:29:48.400 --> 00:29:50.319
just to get in that habit. To me, it's just

579
00:29:50.359 --> 00:29:51.880
the habit of tapping. So if you can just tap

580
00:29:51.920 --> 00:29:53.799
for five minutes a day, you're gonna have a ripple effect.

581
00:29:54.200 --> 00:29:55.960
Even if it's just, oh, I didn't sleep real well

582
00:29:56.039 --> 00:29:57.920
last night. I'll just do a little bit of tapping

583
00:29:57.960 --> 00:29:59.839
on that moving call.

584
00:30:00.559 --> 00:30:02.240
I do the same. I do the same if I'm

585
00:30:02.279 --> 00:30:04.680
just feeling a bit stressed or overwhelmed or something's going

586
00:30:04.680 --> 00:30:09.559
on or irritated or whatever. Just connecting with the feeling

587
00:30:09.880 --> 00:30:13.920
and tapping on the points. That's it, right, That's the

588
00:30:14.519 --> 00:30:17.599
very basics. Peter, We've talked a lot about clinical issues

589
00:30:17.640 --> 00:30:20.839
and anxiety and you know, depression of stress and food cravings.

590
00:30:20.880 --> 00:30:23.920
I've also heard about tapping being used for things like

591
00:30:24.079 --> 00:30:29.720
goal setting and you know, like removing financial blocks or

592
00:30:29.799 --> 00:30:32.119
success blocks or self sabotage. Can you talk a little

593
00:30:32.119 --> 00:30:33.519
bit about that, because I know you do some work

594
00:30:33.519 --> 00:30:34.559
in that space as well.

595
00:30:34.680 --> 00:30:37.440
We do, and it's probably such a favorite space of mine.

596
00:30:37.799 --> 00:30:40.559
We've done lots of school trials here, particularly on the

597
00:30:40.599 --> 00:30:43.200
Gold Coast, just because they're local and heard us on

598
00:30:43.279 --> 00:30:44.720
news and things like that. So we go in and

599
00:30:44.759 --> 00:30:47.720
teach students how to use it for you know, test

600
00:30:47.720 --> 00:30:49.880
anxiety and things like that. But one of the ways

601
00:30:49.920 --> 00:30:52.519
that we often build the bridge because of course, can

602
00:30:52.559 --> 00:30:54.319
you imagine a fifteen year old boy looking at me

603
00:30:54.359 --> 00:30:56.000
going here, tap on your face. You know, he thinks

604
00:30:56.000 --> 00:31:00.720
I'm crazy. So will often introduce it as as a

605
00:31:00.759 --> 00:31:03.519
goal setting technique, and we say to them, hey, is

606
00:31:03.559 --> 00:31:06.000
there anything you'd really like to you know, have come

607
00:31:06.039 --> 00:31:07.960
true in your life or a goal that you really

608
00:31:07.960 --> 00:31:11.839
want to achieve, And of course most teenagers will say yeah, yeah, yeah,

609
00:31:11.839 --> 00:31:14.000
So they write down their goal and this is exactly

610
00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:16.160
what we do and it's often just the bridge that

611
00:31:16.200 --> 00:31:17.799
we build to sort of teaching them.

612
00:31:18.079 --> 00:31:20.880
And then we say, so, what are.

613
00:31:20.799 --> 00:31:26.119
The reasons, excuses, whatever limitations that you think will get

614
00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:30.119
in the road of that goal coming true being achieved,

615
00:31:30.359 --> 00:31:32.240
And so then they write a list. So we're like,

616
00:31:32.319 --> 00:31:34.920
it doesn't matter, just whatever comes to mind. And this

617
00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:36.480
is what I would encourage people to do. So if

618
00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:38.680
they had a goal to, you know, go on a holiday,

619
00:31:38.839 --> 00:31:40.720
so why why don't you go on the holiday? What

620
00:31:40.759 --> 00:31:42.319
do you think we'll get in the road? They write

621
00:31:42.319 --> 00:31:45.039
them down. Now that is what we end up tapping on.

622
00:31:45.160 --> 00:31:47.440
So it's almost like it could be a limiting belief,

623
00:31:47.559 --> 00:31:50.079
it could be something else. It could be a family saying,

624
00:31:50.519 --> 00:31:51.960
it could be something like a.

625
00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:55.279
History of a repeating pattern. That's actually what we do

626
00:31:55.319 --> 00:31:55.880
the tapping on.

627
00:31:55.960 --> 00:31:58.279
So we're actually kind of collapsing, if you like, the

628
00:31:58.359 --> 00:32:00.559
limiting believes that we call it the tape enders in

629
00:32:00.599 --> 00:32:02.599
your head, the little chattery monkey.

630
00:32:02.279 --> 00:32:04.440
That can't go so you can't do that, blah blah blah.

631
00:32:04.480 --> 00:32:07.200
If I give you a simple example, we had a

632
00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:09.599
young boy, grade eleven. We went into this school to

633
00:32:09.640 --> 00:32:11.279
teach them this, and he said, I want to be

634
00:32:11.319 --> 00:32:14.799
school captain next year in grade twelve, and we're like, okay,

635
00:32:14.839 --> 00:32:17.400
well that's good goal. Why wouldn't that come true? And

636
00:32:17.440 --> 00:32:20.440
he said, Oh, I only just got to this school.

637
00:32:20.440 --> 00:32:23.119
I haven't been here for the whole time. People don't

638
00:32:23.160 --> 00:32:25.440
really know me. And even though I feel okay to

639
00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:28.559
give a speech, I don't think my peers will vote

640
00:32:28.599 --> 00:32:30.240
for me because they're like, who were you?

641
00:32:30.240 --> 00:32:32.119
You haven't been here. So that was sort of his

642
00:32:32.200 --> 00:32:32.599
main thing.

643
00:32:32.599 --> 00:32:34.079
There were a few others, so we just did some

644
00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:37.240
tapping around that so that he didn't feel that sort

645
00:32:37.279 --> 00:32:39.960
of was so true for him anymore. Now, fast forward

646
00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:41.759
about nine months. I was back at the school and

647
00:32:41.799 --> 00:32:44.480
I was talking to the principal just about some other things,

648
00:32:44.519 --> 00:32:45.680
and I suddenly remembered.

649
00:32:45.720 --> 00:32:48.519
I said, oh, who's the school captain this year? And

650
00:32:48.559 --> 00:32:50.680
he mentioned this boy's name, and I just had one

651
00:32:50.720 --> 00:32:50.920
of these.

652
00:32:51.480 --> 00:32:54.519
I started laughing at the school principles looking at me

653
00:32:54.599 --> 00:32:55.279
like what are you laughing?

654
00:32:55.279 --> 00:32:57.359
And I'm like, oh, he actually tapped on that.

655
00:32:57.599 --> 00:33:00.119
So it's just one example, but it is a real

656
00:33:00.279 --> 00:33:03.559
lovely way to introduce tapping to teenagers that may be

657
00:33:03.680 --> 00:33:05.160
a bit skeptical because you.

658
00:33:05.079 --> 00:33:06.839
Know, let's face it, tapping on your face is a

659
00:33:06.880 --> 00:33:07.279
bit weird.

660
00:33:07.559 --> 00:33:10.640
So if they kind of go, oh, maybe something will

661
00:33:10.640 --> 00:33:13.000
come out of this for me, And I think it's

662
00:33:13.000 --> 00:33:16.519
such a nice way. What we're still tapping on is

663
00:33:16.599 --> 00:33:19.799
those underlying kind of limiting beliefs and things like that

664
00:33:19.839 --> 00:33:22.079
and sort of removing them so that you do feel

665
00:33:22.160 --> 00:33:25.559
like perhaps your belief in that goal is much higher.

666
00:33:25.599 --> 00:33:26.680
And then see what happens.

667
00:33:26.960 --> 00:33:29.720
And I'm imagining too, just listening to you talk about that,

668
00:33:29.720 --> 00:33:32.480
that there's there would be a flow on, like a

669
00:33:32.599 --> 00:33:34.960
ripple effect, right, So you might be tapping on one

670
00:33:35.000 --> 00:33:38.759
particular issue, but because of the effect that's happening on

671
00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:41.759
your nervous system and the way your brain is wirde,

672
00:33:41.839 --> 00:33:45.160
then you would imagine that would translate out into improving

673
00:33:45.759 --> 00:33:49.839
other potential problems you might be experiencing. Would that be right?

674
00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:50.799
Yeah, it's interesting.

675
00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:51.079
Yeah.

676
00:33:51.079 --> 00:33:51.640
Absolutely.

677
00:33:51.640 --> 00:33:54.000
People will often sort of say, hey, I was tapping on,

678
00:33:54.920 --> 00:33:57.720
you know, maybe something physical in the body, and then

679
00:33:57.759 --> 00:34:00.920
I actually also got an outcome, you know, maybe my

680
00:34:01.240 --> 00:34:03.960
fear of public speaking decreased or something, and they didn't

681
00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:06.640
realize they were probably connected. And that's all it is

682
00:34:06.640 --> 00:34:09.119
is we often are tapping in one area but get

683
00:34:09.159 --> 00:34:11.599
a shift in another one because there was probably a

684
00:34:11.599 --> 00:34:14.119
common denominator they just didn't realize, and we're like it's

685
00:34:14.119 --> 00:34:16.920
a bonus, yeah, just go with it.

686
00:34:17.119 --> 00:34:21.519
Yeah yeah yeah. Now, Last, but not least, I recently

687
00:34:21.519 --> 00:34:26.119
did the evidence based EFT training and which was great.

688
00:34:26.320 --> 00:34:28.639
As a therapist, I felt like it was important to

689
00:34:28.719 --> 00:34:32.239
kind of do that and to understand that, you know,

690
00:34:32.239 --> 00:34:36.960
the clinical protocols and things like that for the person

691
00:34:37.079 --> 00:34:40.440
listening to this, who can easily go to YouTube and

692
00:34:40.480 --> 00:34:45.039
see a thousand more you know, YouTube videos on tapping,

693
00:34:45.320 --> 00:34:47.960
or can download apps. You know, there's lots of ways

694
00:34:47.960 --> 00:34:52.000
that people can access tapping scripts and things like that.

695
00:34:52.360 --> 00:34:57.199
At what point would somebody kind of go and see

696
00:34:57.239 --> 00:35:02.000
a trained like a clinical if practitioner as opposed to

697
00:35:02.199 --> 00:35:04.079
just doing their own youtubing.

698
00:35:04.679 --> 00:35:06.559
Yes, And I do think you're right.

699
00:35:06.599 --> 00:35:09.519
There's so much out there, and there's good information out there,

700
00:35:09.559 --> 00:35:12.480
you know, on YouTube and things like that. If at

701
00:35:12.519 --> 00:35:15.159
any point someone's tapping along, you know, maybe with the

702
00:35:15.199 --> 00:35:18.079
topic that they've picked because that's what's going on for

703
00:35:18.119 --> 00:35:20.000
them at the moment, or an area they want to

704
00:35:20.079 --> 00:35:22.320
change in their life, like you mentioned, you know, finances

705
00:35:22.360 --> 00:35:22.639
and things.

706
00:35:22.719 --> 00:35:25.079
That's often an area that people will find a video on.

707
00:35:25.599 --> 00:35:28.760
If at any point in that tapping with the video,

708
00:35:28.800 --> 00:35:32.559
and of course it's not a live person, any distress

709
00:35:32.639 --> 00:35:36.400
level comes up that that person's really uncomfortable with, or

710
00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:40.280
a memory comes back from a long time ago, eg.

711
00:35:40.599 --> 00:35:43.440
Childhood that someone hasn't thought about for a while that

712
00:35:43.519 --> 00:35:46.880
maybe takes them by surprise. That is the moment to

713
00:35:47.000 --> 00:35:50.199
actually go and seek some support with a trained practitioner,

714
00:35:50.199 --> 00:35:52.760
whether that's a psychologist trained or a social worker or

715
00:35:52.800 --> 00:35:54.880
an EFT Certifiety of t practitioner.

716
00:35:55.559 --> 00:35:59.280
What that indicates is tapping is working. Often people will think,

717
00:35:59.559 --> 00:36:02.760
all this tapping thing made me really upset or distressed.

718
00:36:03.119 --> 00:36:04.159
It doesn't work.

719
00:36:04.480 --> 00:36:07.559
It actually means tapping's working really quickly and it's kind

720
00:36:07.559 --> 00:36:10.840
of peeling the layers of the onion fast. Tapping does

721
00:36:10.920 --> 00:36:14.239
work like that, but often that can take people by surprise,

722
00:36:14.639 --> 00:36:16.719
and that is when it's really important to go and

723
00:36:16.800 --> 00:36:20.840
get support by somebody that can be objective, ask questions,

724
00:36:21.079 --> 00:36:23.840
support you through that process. And of course if something

725
00:36:23.920 --> 00:36:25.840
has come up from the past, like a memory, and

726
00:36:25.880 --> 00:36:29.639
the reason why people do get memories is as the amig.

727
00:36:29.400 --> 00:36:32.440
Dealer kind of calms itself down, the hippo campus.

728
00:36:32.480 --> 00:36:34.920
The memory center that sits next door to that is

729
00:36:35.039 --> 00:36:38.159
able to sort of give out information when the AMIGN

730
00:36:38.199 --> 00:36:38.719
dealer is not.

731
00:36:38.760 --> 00:36:39.800
Hijacking the body.

732
00:36:40.039 --> 00:36:42.280
So if the AMIG dealer has gone quiet, the hipper

733
00:36:42.280 --> 00:36:45.760
campus can then sometimes give memories up from childhood. It's

734
00:36:45.840 --> 00:36:47.800
kind of like the leg of the table where it's like, hey,

735
00:36:47.920 --> 00:36:50.679
this is related and you should tap on this, but

736
00:36:50.719 --> 00:36:54.599
the person may not be expecting that. They're probably two

737
00:36:55.039 --> 00:36:58.000
kind of flags to watch out for. Level of distress

738
00:36:58.039 --> 00:37:01.320
that you wonder where did this come from? All memories

739
00:37:01.320 --> 00:37:03.400
that pop back, they would be the two times I

740
00:37:03.440 --> 00:37:04.440
would even pop up.

741
00:37:04.400 --> 00:37:07.400
And see somewhere. Yeah, good to know. I think that's

742
00:37:07.400 --> 00:37:10.119
interesting to talk about the amigdala calming down and memories

743
00:37:10.119 --> 00:37:11.840
popping up, because I know a lot of people experience

744
00:37:11.880 --> 00:37:15.159
the same, for example, when they start meditation or anything

745
00:37:15.239 --> 00:37:17.360
like that, where you start to calm down your nervous

746
00:37:17.360 --> 00:37:20.559
system and then suddenly it's the hippo campus feels kind

747
00:37:20.559 --> 00:37:25.280
of free to bubble up all the old stuff from

748
00:37:25.679 --> 00:37:27.719
your childhood.

749
00:37:28.480 --> 00:37:30.800
Very handy, Peter.

750
00:37:31.440 --> 00:37:34.920
I really appreciate the work that you do. I am

751
00:37:35.079 --> 00:37:38.800
so grateful to you for really blazing a trail in

752
00:37:38.840 --> 00:37:40.960
this space of making sure that there is the research

753
00:37:41.960 --> 00:37:44.639
to back up what many people have kind of known

754
00:37:45.079 --> 00:37:47.079
to be true and effective for a long time, but

755
00:37:47.440 --> 00:37:51.679
it's the way forward. You have programs and courses and

756
00:37:51.719 --> 00:37:53.440
things on your website, is that ic? Can I just

757
00:37:53.440 --> 00:37:55.760
give you a moment to share what people can access

758
00:37:56.119 --> 00:37:58.360
through your website and your trainings and things.

759
00:37:58.599 --> 00:38:01.760
Yeah, sure, lots of resources there, so just at my

760
00:38:02.119 --> 00:38:04.639
Peterstapleton dot com if people want a diagram of the

761
00:38:04.639 --> 00:38:06.719
tapping points or watch a video on how to tap.

762
00:38:07.039 --> 00:38:09.440
Lots of things there are free of course, can access

763
00:38:09.599 --> 00:38:11.880
anyone interested in training and.

764
00:38:11.800 --> 00:38:12.360
You mentioned it.

765
00:38:12.480 --> 00:38:15.719
CAS Evidence based EFT dot com is where we host

766
00:38:15.760 --> 00:38:18.760
all of our programs and there's just you know, tapping

767
00:38:18.760 --> 00:38:20.920
for personal use if somebody just wants to sort of

768
00:38:20.960 --> 00:38:23.199
put them through, as well as live events of course,

769
00:38:23.239 --> 00:38:25.719
you know, coming back into putting some of those back

770
00:38:25.760 --> 00:38:28.320
on this year, that kind of thing, and of course

771
00:38:28.360 --> 00:38:29.320
access to research.

772
00:38:29.400 --> 00:38:31.719
So if anyone does want any of those.

773
00:38:31.480 --> 00:38:34.320
Papers we've talked about, you know, anything we've published, people

774
00:38:34.320 --> 00:38:35.079
loo can get access.

775
00:38:35.920 --> 00:38:38.199
Links are all there to my university page and things

776
00:38:38.239 --> 00:38:40.320
like that as well. So thank you. Yeah, anyone that

777
00:38:40.440 --> 00:38:42.519
wants to reach out and ask anything. We're always happy

778
00:38:42.519 --> 00:38:42.960
to answer.

779
00:38:43.039 --> 00:38:45.559
Fantastic, And I know psychologists do listen to the show

780
00:38:45.559 --> 00:38:48.920
as well, So psychologists who are interesting interested in adding

781
00:38:48.960 --> 00:38:51.159
this as a tool in the practice would definitely say

782
00:38:51.199 --> 00:38:53.920
go and check out doctor Peter Stapleton's website. And Peter,

783
00:38:53.960 --> 00:38:55.719
I can see behind you listeners can't beca this is

784
00:38:55.719 --> 00:38:58.079
a podcast, it's not a YouTube, but behind you. The

785
00:38:58.119 --> 00:39:01.320
Science of Tapping is your most recent book.

786
00:39:01.440 --> 00:39:05.480
Yes, yes, yes, so that is an easy to read books,

787
00:39:05.480 --> 00:39:07.400
so don't let the word science put you off the

788
00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:10.199
science behind tapping. So that book just really took all

789
00:39:10.239 --> 00:39:13.079
the research to date that came out in twenty nineteen

790
00:39:13.519 --> 00:39:16.320
in an easy to understand kind of way, all split

791
00:39:16.400 --> 00:39:18.519
up in the sections, and lots of client studies from

792
00:39:19.079 --> 00:39:21.519
case studies from the trials are included in there, so

793
00:39:21.519 --> 00:39:24.199
you can actually read people's stories about what happened.

794
00:39:24.239 --> 00:39:27.000
So that's available anyway, hay House and.

795
00:39:27.159 --> 00:39:29.039
Audio too, so if anyone wants to listen to the

796
00:39:29.079 --> 00:39:30.920
Aussie voice.

797
00:39:31.320 --> 00:39:33.800
So I did read that one that's on audible.

798
00:39:33.679 --> 00:39:35.880
Very good, and I've just realized I don't yet have

799
00:39:35.960 --> 00:39:37.639
that in my library, so I'll be I'll be grabbing

800
00:39:37.639 --> 00:39:40.920
a copy of that straight after this recording. Peter, thank

801
00:39:40.960 --> 00:39:43.400
you so much for your time. I so appreciate it,

802
00:39:43.519 --> 00:39:47.880
and I really cannot wait to see what else unfolds

803
00:39:47.880 --> 00:39:49.679
in this space. I think it's really exciting.

804
00:39:49.800 --> 00:39:52.360
Thanks so much, Cass, and we are very excited.

805
00:39:52.360 --> 00:39:54.280
There will be some stuff in the next twelve months,

806
00:39:54.360 --> 00:39:56.599
so we'll be happy to come back and share all

807
00:39:56.599 --> 00:39:57.079
the updates.

808
00:39:57.119 --> 00:40:02.920
I'll hold you to that. Thanks, Peter. If you find

809
00:40:02.960 --> 00:40:06.639
all of this just as interesting and exciting as I do.

810
00:40:07.039 --> 00:40:09.320
You can find out more about Peter and her work,

811
00:40:09.440 --> 00:40:11.360
as well as links to all of her trainings that

812
00:40:11.440 --> 00:40:15.000
she offers at her website Peterstapleton dot com. I'll put

813
00:40:15.039 --> 00:40:17.960
that link in the show notes. Her newest book, as

814
00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:21.559
she said, is called The Science Behind Tapping. You'll find

815
00:40:21.559 --> 00:40:24.360
it in all bookstores. It's published by Hayhouse and you

816
00:40:24.400 --> 00:40:27.119
can find Peter on social media as well as she's

817
00:40:27.119 --> 00:40:30.320
on Facebook and Instagram. Obviously, you can always connect with

818
00:40:30.400 --> 00:40:34.159
me over on Instagram at cast Done Underscore XO. My

819
00:40:34.239 --> 00:40:36.840
website is cast Done dot com and I will catch

820
00:40:36.880 --> 00:40:42.960
you on the next episode of Crappy to Happy. Crappy

821
00:40:43.000 --> 00:40:46.159
to Happy is presented by cast Dunn, produced by Davis Vilenski.

822
00:40:46.440 --> 00:40:53.679
Audio production by Darcy Thompson. Listener