The Positivity Prescription with Dr Suzy Green

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A listener production.

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Hey, you're listening to Crappy to Happy. I'm your host,

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Cas Dunn. I'm a clinical and coaching psychologist, a mindfulness

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meditation teacher, and author of the Crappy to Happy books.

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In this show, we talk about all the things that

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might be making you feel crappy and give you the

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tools and tips to help you overcome them. And of course,

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in each episode, I bring you conversations with interesting, inspiring,

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intelligent people who are experts in their field. And my

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hope is that you take something from these conversations that

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helps you feel a little bit less crappy and more happy. Today,

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I am so excited to introduce you to my friend colleague,

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one of my early mentors, doctor Susie Green now Susie

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like me, is a clinical and coaching psychologist. She is

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the founder and CEO of the Positivity Institute, which is

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an organization whose mission it is to help create flourishing

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lives and increase the wellbeing of the world. Now, many

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years ago, I first met Susie when I enrolled in

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the world's first Masters of Coaching Psychology at the University

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of Sydney and at the time as an aspiring life coach.

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I felt pretty out of place in a room full

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of managers and consultants and people in suits and ties

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learning how to be executive coaches. Then Susie Green walked

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in like a breath of fresh air. She was a

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PhD candidate at the time, and she taught the positive

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psychology subject and she talked about the value of life coaching.

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She's an energizer, bunny. Her enthusiasm for the topic was

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extremely contagious, and she really reaffirmed for me the value

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of coaching for individual wellbeing. Susie is now, all these

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years later, a world leader in the complementary fields of coaching,

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psychology and positive psychology. She helps organizations to create flourishing workplaces.

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She goes into schools to teach about positive education and

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for individuals like you. She has recently written her book,

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The Positivity Prescription, and she's also created a six week

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online course of the same name, which is kicking off

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really soon. So stay listening at the end of the

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episode for a special discount code if you're interested in

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Susie's Positivity Prescription For now, here's my chat with Susie. Susie,

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you are the CEO and founder of the Positivity Institute.

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Now look for the lay person who doesn't understand these

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terms positive psychology, clinical psychology, counseling, psychology. Can you just

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explain to us what exactly is positive psychology?

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Yeah?

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Absolutely, And I guess there are a few different definitions

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floating about, but the most simple and powerful one for

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me is it's the science. So it is a scientific study,

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a scientific field of optimal human functioning. So even more simplistic,

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I would say, just us at our best. So it's

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a study of us at our best as human beings

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here on the planet.

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And how does it fit then with other brands of psychology?

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So if we're talking about therapy and clinical psychology, can

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you just give us for people who aren't familiar, can

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you just give us the little snapshot of how this

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new field of positive, newish field of positive psychology came

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to be? Like where it fits?

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Absolutely?

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And I think as as you know my background, I

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started off as a clinical psychologist, which I still am

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a clinical psychologist. And as a clinical site we're taught

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and trained to help diagnose and treat clinical disorders such

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as depression and anxiety and other forms of psychological distress.

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And I know in my training it was very focused

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on symptom identification and symptom reduction, and even I guess

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in the field of counseling psychology, which is closely related. Generally,

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people arrive in your practice, and like you, I had

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a practice for many, many years working with individuals with problems.

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Very rarely did I have someone come along saying things

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are fantastick, but I want them to be even better,

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Whereas in I guess coaching, which we're going to talk

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about today too, and positive psychology, it is often about

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people wanting perhaps not certainly not in most cases being

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clinically depressed. Although I did want to say that there

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is a role for positive psychology in clinical psych and

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perhaps we can touch on that too, But generally positive

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psychos of people that just want to live better lives

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that might be languishing is the term that we use.

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So certainly not flourishing, but there's a recognition that they're

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not feeling their best self or they're not living their

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best lives.

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I love that you just mentioned the words languishing and flourishing.

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Can you explain that to us to my listeners? Yeah,

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what is languishing? What is flourishing?

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Yeah, so I think if we think about and most

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people these days, as you would know, and I think,

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if anything, COVID has really highlighted the mental health issues

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we have in our community. So we're not talking about

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a clinical diagnosis, particularly around a disorder like depression. So

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languishing could possibly be subclinical depression or on the way

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to developing a clinical depression, not feeling good and not

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functioning very well. There are a lot of people that

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are languishing, and a lot of people turn up to

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work every day and you've probably heard that term presenteeism

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rather than absentees, and so they're.

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There, but they're not really there.

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But yeah, certainly not necessarily as I said, within the

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clinical realm.

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So that's languishing.

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Then in between, there's a large category called the moderately

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mentally healthy, and that's not a bad place to be cast,

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but I certainly don't want to spend the remainder of

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my life just being moderately mentally healthy. And so again

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that's you know, feeling okay, but again not truly flourishing.

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And so the F word we call it in positive psychology,

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flourishing really is a combination of high levels of psychological

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well being and low levels of mental illness, but also

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high levels of engagement or you know, really playing to

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our strengths having a purposeful life as well. So that's

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a real combination there of experiencing a flourishing state. And

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I guess the question is is it normal to flourish

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all the time or possibly not? And even with someone

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like myself or yourself that's highly skilled in psychology and

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psychological skills, when the curve balls come, do we use them?

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I can tell you, Cass, I don't know about you,

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but I know, even through COVID, I really had to

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rely on my buddies and my learned friends that have

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those skills to help me, because it is very hard

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when you're in the eye of the storm to actually

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rely on the skills.

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Which is why we need as many people as.

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Possible in our community to be skilled so we can

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help each other when the going gets tough.

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What you just described then is I guess to recap.

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So in my clinical practice, and I'm sure in yours,

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people would come in with depression and anxiety, with a

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problem and we would work to get them back to

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functioning normally. You know that in the normal range absent

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of symptoms.

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That's it on the depression, anxiety and stress scale. And

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then our job was over and we waived by Pye.

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But we're going let's not wave by violence, where we

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can move to what we can really do.

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Yeah.

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So, therefore this positive psychologist for the people who might

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be functioning well but they want something more. They know

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that they want to fulfill their potential, live their best life,

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be more engaged. This is where you know, I feel

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really passionately about this as well. Obviously, Susie you said

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there is it's a real science now for those who

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who might be listening and going, well, this is all

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well and good, but you know there are people who've

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got real problems in the world or who dismiss it

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as you know, self help, happy happyology, that kind of thing.

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What does the science say about positive psychology.

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Well, we do have over twenty years of research now

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since the field formally launched, but even pre existing the field,

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there were aspects that weren't identified as positive psychology.

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I guess that we can still draw on.

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But the evidence is pretty compelling, particularly around the study

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of positive emotions. So cas like me, I'm sure in

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your lectures, particularly as a clinical site. You never had

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a lecture on joy or love or kindness. I know

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all of my lectures were on fear, anger, shame, disgust,

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and guilt are usually and on unhappy couples. I still

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remember having a lecture on unhappy couples and I used

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to say, is that because there.

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Aren't any happy couples?

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But you no, The research is pretty compelling around positive emotions.

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So we do now know that there are ten different

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types of positive emotions, whereas prior to this research, we

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used to clump them under happy, you know, and happiness,

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and most people understand what happiness is.

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In a broad way.

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But we now we're a lot more nuanced around understanding

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emotions like joy, for example, like elevation, which is the

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emotion you feel when you feel inspired when you watch

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people engage in doing good deeds, for example. So we

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know that when we are in when we experience positive

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emotions such as joy, as I mentioned, there's a whole

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range of physiological effects that happen. So our visual perception broadens.

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We actually look up and I've noticed all those look

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up signs on billboards lately, and so we know that

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if you induce people into a positive mood state, and

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there's various ways you can do that which we can

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talk about have done. Try eye tracking experiments, so our

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eyes actually scan the environment, and so when we're scanning

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the environment, we see more, we see more options and solutions,

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we're more attuned. Whereas as you know, when you're in

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that flight or free stay stage or experience, our thinking

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arrows down because we have to address right in this

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very moment what we need to do for our survival.

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So there's a whole range of benefits besides seeing more

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we make The research says we make better decisions, and

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they've done some great experiments with surgeons that have been

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given very complex cases to solve, and when you induce

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one group in or a positive mood state and the

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other into a negative, they make much more efficient and

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correct diagnoses. So there's again a whole range of these outcomes.

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Also around our immune functioning. Now I would say now

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more than ever, particularly with COVID and different strains that

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seem to be emerging, our immune system is really really important.

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And on the flip side, again, as you would be

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very familiar with, there's decades of research to show that

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when we're feeling experiencing stress over the longer term that

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it has a negative impact on our immune system, which

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makes us more liable to catch it a virus for example.

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So the researcher is showing when we're experiencing more positive emotions,

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it seems to buffer our immune system and we're less

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likely to catch the flu. And there's been a study

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to show that people that receive the flu vaccine versus

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people that were engaging in a loving kindness mindfulness meditation,

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the results were comparable. So you know, when we're looking

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at whether to get the flu shot or mindfulness, and

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then I'm not saying don't get the flu shot, but

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consider our mindfulness as a means to boost your immune system,

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which also particularly these loving kindness type meditations, gives us

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that positive emotional boost as well.

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That's the thing, isn't it, Like that's a real tangible benefit.

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I think so many people aren't necessarily aware they know

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what makes them feel good, and we'd all rather feel

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good than feel crappy, hence the crappy to have your podcast.

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But I don't think people necessarily realize those physiological changes

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that happen, like at a cellular level, we're actually changing.

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Absolutely is very and we've known that, I guess intuitively

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for a long time the connection, but the research, particularly

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coming out of psychooneuroimminology again is very compelling on that

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link between our emotional state and our physiological state and.

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Of course our behaviors.

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There's great research which i'd just like to briefly touch

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that shows that when you induce people into a positive

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mood state, they're more likely to make larger contributions to charities,

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to be more altruistic. Some wonderful research where they brought

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people together from very different diverse backgrounds and racially diverse backgrounds,

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and when you induce them into the positive mood state

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and they come together, they're more likely to see the

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similarities between us rather than the differences compared to when

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you do an induction into a negative mood state and

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bring these very different people together, they're more likely to

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see how we're different. And that has significant implications for

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our planet and our society.

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For sure, especially if you think about some of the

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politics of the last twelve months, those that divisiveness and

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those you know, polarity in people's views. So if we

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just all felt a bit more positive, we could bridge

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some of.

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Those games, so we're more open to perhaps taking a

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different perspective actually listening, being compassionate towards others. So you

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can see there's actually a whole ripple effect between I guess,

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the emotions and then the behaviors that come out of

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those emotional states as.

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Well, Susie.

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There's a million books on happiness out there at the moment.

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I've contributed a little to that. I've just got my

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third one coming out. But you know, I think we're

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all looking for the solution. I guess we're all looking

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for ways to feel better. We've all heard of mindfulness.

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Even if listeners don't really get it or they don't

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think they can get it, we all know by now

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that we should be writing down three things we're grateful

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for every day. They seem to be the kind of

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stock standard tips you know that you see on an

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Instagram quote. What other kinds of tools or strategies or

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interventions could have sort of full underneath this banner of

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positive psychology? Can you just sort of give us an overview?

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Sure? And you're write CASSID is a banner or an umbrella.

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We often referred to it as because often you hear

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people writing positive psychology offers fluff or non scientific, and

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it's very difficult to do that because, as you've said,

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there are many different areas of research, or we call

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them constructs in psychology, but topics basically that fall under

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that umbrella, the two that you've mentioned, and they're fantastic

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because I guess even less than ten years ago when

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I went to organizations to talk about mindfulness, there were

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barely one or two people in a group of thirty

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that would say that they'd even heard of it. Now

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it's really taken the world by storm, and there is

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compelling evidence to encourage us to think about regular mindfulness

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practice and regular gratitude practice. Although I do want to

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say the research suggests that if you're already a grateful person,

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you're not going to get an extra boost to your

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well being by practicing gratitude.

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You've got to be ungrateful to get the better.

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And I've seen it happen.

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I've seen people have major AHAs that they've been taking

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people for granted, or taking their life situation for granted,

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and by simply just acknowledging that through an appreciation or

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gratitude type exercise, they have a major aha, and.

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I feel a lot better about that.

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But you're right, I've mentioned positive emotions, so that is

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a big area of research that's continuing. Strengths is a

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really large component of positive psychology. So a large part

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is around what we call character strengths. So they're the

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types of strengths that make us good human beings if

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you like so strengths such as gratitude or kindness. There's leadership,

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love of learning, curiosity, and for those that are listening today,

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you can take a free assessment of your character strengths

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if you go Tovia Institute, which is a great exercise

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to do. The area that I'm really interested in right

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now and is getting gaining a lot of research attention,

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and really following on from the research on mindfulness is

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compassion and self and in particular self compassion. I'm sure

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you've spoken a lot about that podcast, cas So, and

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there's a wonderful book that's recently come out by some

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of my colleagues on the impact of awakening compassion in

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the workplace. There's a whole chapter on the impact on

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business outcomes, which I'm sure we will talk about today too,

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But I think at this point in time. You know,

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I know last year and you were probably the same.

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I wasn't really being called on to do talks on

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well being so much last year, but a lot on

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resilience and on mental toughness to get through the adversity.

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And so I just want to clarify that resilience, even

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though it did pre exist positive psychology and in many

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ways fell under the realm of clinical psychology, it does

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fall under the umbrella of positive psychology, and we know

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that positive emotions buffer us from a resilience perspective, and

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mental toughness is another area that I've been really interested

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in that I would say would fall falls under that umbrella.

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And for those that are on the listening to the

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podcast today that might appreciate some academic research, there's a

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fantastic paper that's only just come out in the last

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week in the Journal of Positive Psychology looking at the

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benefits of taking a positive psychology approach in a pandemic

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and very Happy. It's an open access journal, happy to

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send you the link CAUs that perhaps you make available

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to people as well, and it covers topics that I've

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already mentioned. It also talks about meaning, which again is

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a really big area of research that's gained a lot

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of traction in the last ten to fifteen years. And

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we know that people that have a sense of meaning

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in their workplace report greater levels of work satisfaction, and

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those that have a sense of meaning in them their

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life more generally report greater levels of well being as well.

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And we know a lot about now how we can

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go about developing greater meaning in our lives as well.

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So yeah, and I think that's been a bit of

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a debate too. I mean, I use the word happiness

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in the work that I do because, like you said,

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like everybody resonates, we all know what that is. But

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it does boil down to meaning, doesn't it. It's that

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balance of positive emotions, feeling good, but also having that

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sense of purpose.

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Absolutely.

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Again, just looking at some fairly recent research that looked

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at people that prioritize positivity, and I'm a big one

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for prioritizing positivity, which basically is creating a life timetable,

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if you like, and putting in the activities the people

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the places that you know.

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Are going to give you a positive mood boost.

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And I've done that for a long time and it's

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made a big difference in my life. But there was

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a follow up study that looked at prioritizing meaning and

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again looking at people that really thought about their values

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and the things that really did give the sense of

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meaning in their lives, and that seemed to give benefits

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over and above prioritizing positivity. So the meaning piece is

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really essential to a flourishing life.

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When you say strengths too, I just wanted to go

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back to that when you said people can go to

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the VIA Institute and take a strength survey. Now that

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strength survey, because there's a little bit of confusion about

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the definition of strengths I think too in positive psychology.

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I mean, because that is really like a values in

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action survey, right, as opposed to I'm really my strengths

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are that I'm good at maths or I'm a good

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problem solver. Can you explain that a bit for people,

357
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because that's always a bit of a confusing topic.

358
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Sure, and some of your listeners might be familiar with

359
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other strengths assessments like the Gallop Clifton Strengths Finder, which

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is used extensively in the workplace, or one out of

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the UK called Strengths Profile.

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The VIA are character strengths.

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And that's really important because it was developed by looking

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across cultures, across and philosophy through time, and they basically

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did a bit of a factor analysis and came up

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with six common virtues, So regardless of religion or culture,

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what were the common virtues and then what were the

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common character strengths. And so it's been a really powerful

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I guess approach, and there's so much research on the

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character strengths that's been done in workplaces and in school settings.

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But the other types of strengths are what we would

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call performance strengths. So I mentioned the Gallop Strengths Finder.

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There's thirty four themes in that there's sixty strengths in

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the other strengths profile. It may be that you don't

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necessarily want to develop all of those strengths, those performance

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strengths cass and you basically just play to your strengths

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once you get your reports and you know what your

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strengths are. The idea is that you play to your strengths.

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You watch that you don't overplay them, because that's really important.

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But when it comes to the character strengths, it's not

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like we just play to our top five and we

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forget about the rest because the full twenty four are

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important and in terms of being the best human beings

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that we can be, it really is a case of

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developing the full twenty four over our lifetime. Now I'm

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not there yet, cash to tell about you. I'm still

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working on the developer to go there. I've got a

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few more to go. So I think you can actually

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use them very complementary and in some of the work

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we do. We'd start off as an entry into strengths

391
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because the via is very simple and it resonates with people.

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But then if you're in a workplace or.

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An organization, the performance strengths can be really powerful, and

394
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they're fantastic if you're looking at career coaching or career

395
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changes as well.

396
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And speaking about strengths and values, I mean I talk

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about values with people a lot, and so many people,

398
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I think for you and I who have are been

399
00:21:53.079 --> 00:21:55.119
immersed in this sort of field for a long time,

400
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it's just standard kind of stuff to talk about values

401
00:21:59.279 --> 00:22:01.400
and what are your values, what your character strengths. But

402
00:22:02.200 --> 00:22:04.039
I've been really surprised at the number of people who

403
00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:09.240
never have thought about it, who have never really considered

404
00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:14.440
what their highest values are, like what is most important

405
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to them in life. So what's the point do you

406
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tell us, Susie, Like, what's the point of knowing what

407
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your values are? And where do people start with identifying

408
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what they are exactly?

409
00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:26.880
Well, basically, values are what matters most to you in

410
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your life. And I mean, as you know, there's more

411
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and more research coming out of acceptance and commitment therapy

412
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or training act it's called that is sort of supporting

413
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what we already knew. I think from a coaching perspective,

414
00:22:40.839 --> 00:22:44.039
we've used values a lot to help people determine what

415
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matters most in their lives and then to design a

416
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life that reflects what matters most in their lives.

417
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But there is more research coming.

418
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Out to show too that knowing what matters most allows

419
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us to actually sit with discomfort as we move towards

420
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living a more authentic life. And I guess most of

421
00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:07.079
us ideally want to live an authentic life, but sometimes

422
00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:10.799
that's difficult. Sometimes it's you know, not being the person

423
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that others want us to be, or it might mean

424
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sitting with some discomfort as we carve out or navigate

425
00:23:18.599 --> 00:23:22.640
a different life path for ourselves. So knowing why for me,

426
00:23:22.759 --> 00:23:25.440
the values are the why of the goals, or the

427
00:23:25.519 --> 00:23:29.240
why of our direction or our actions in life. And

428
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once you get really clear on what matters most, and

429
00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:35.400
we usually suggest trying to get down to say five,

430
00:23:35.519 --> 00:23:39.319
your top five core life values, they become, as one

431
00:23:39.319 --> 00:23:42.079
of my very early coaching clients said to me, the

432
00:23:42.119 --> 00:23:46.079
best decision making tools he had ever had, because when

433
00:23:46.119 --> 00:23:48.519
it came and I was coaching him on work life balance,

434
00:23:48.599 --> 00:23:51.079
I think at the time, and when it came down

435
00:23:51.119 --> 00:23:54.000
to whether I should stay at six o'clock for another hour,

436
00:23:54.640 --> 00:23:56.400
you know, and not get home till nine o'clock, not

437
00:23:56.480 --> 00:23:59.000
see my wife, not have dinner with my wife, not

438
00:23:59.079 --> 00:24:02.359
have see my kids, it was very easy to make

439
00:24:02.400 --> 00:24:04.920
a decision at six o'clock to go home. And we

440
00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:07.559
actually had his values up on the wall right in

441
00:24:07.559 --> 00:24:10.119
front of his face so that he could be reminded

442
00:24:10.240 --> 00:24:12.559
of what mattered most, so we could make the decision

443
00:24:12.759 --> 00:24:15.559
to log off and go home. So they really do

444
00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:19.400
become great decision making tools, particularly when you're conflicted. And

445
00:24:19.599 --> 00:24:21.720
although I have to say cas sometimes we can have

446
00:24:21.880 --> 00:24:25.799
values conflict. So for example, if you do want to

447
00:24:25.839 --> 00:24:28.640
achieve and we've got some career goals for ourselves, but

448
00:24:28.799 --> 00:24:31.880
we also value our family, and so we're sort of

449
00:24:31.920 --> 00:24:35.799
balancing that time with family and achievement. But often we'll

450
00:24:35.839 --> 00:24:39.920
see too that the achievement often underpinning that is because

451
00:24:39.960 --> 00:24:42.200
I want to be successful for my family.

452
00:24:42.599 --> 00:24:44.759
So it's a really good discussion point.

453
00:24:44.960 --> 00:24:47.039
And like you said, I've had many clients that have

454
00:24:47.079 --> 00:24:49.640
said a week, Susie, I can't do this.

455
00:24:49.599 --> 00:24:51.960
In a week. I need a year. I need a whole.

456
00:24:51.759 --> 00:24:54.839
Year to really take some time out and reflect on

457
00:24:54.960 --> 00:24:58.759
what matters most. So I would suggest, and I do recommend,

458
00:24:58.839 --> 00:25:02.000
that give it some time, give yourself a year, you know,

459
00:25:02.160 --> 00:25:05.559
to really think about the things that matter most. There

460
00:25:05.599 --> 00:25:08.599
are lots of values lists. You can just google the

461
00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:10.240
available freely.

462
00:25:10.799 --> 00:25:11.480
We have a list.

463
00:25:11.519 --> 00:25:13.480
I'm sure you have a list, and you can just

464
00:25:13.519 --> 00:25:16.000
start off by asterisking. I know what I did, and

465
00:25:16.079 --> 00:25:19.160
I asterismally everything, and then I just put it aside

466
00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:21.240
and came back to it, put it aside and came

467
00:25:21.279 --> 00:25:25.160
back to it until I had said, and I reiterate

468
00:25:25.240 --> 00:25:29.720
here the word felt, because you actually get a physical

469
00:25:29.759 --> 00:25:32.319
feeling when you get down to the ones that feel.

470
00:25:32.119 --> 00:25:35.359
Authentic for you, you will feel them to be right.

471
00:25:35.680 --> 00:25:38.160
So for me, that's a great indicator of whether you've

472
00:25:38.200 --> 00:25:39.279
got the right values.

473
00:25:40.119 --> 00:25:43.839
Yeah, that's really good advice, and I concur I think

474
00:25:43.960 --> 00:25:47.319
everybody should just be at least spending some time reflecting on,

475
00:25:47.480 --> 00:25:50.799
even if you don't know what they are, reflecting on

476
00:25:50.920 --> 00:25:54.640
what is most important in life as a starting point

477
00:25:54.640 --> 00:25:58.680
and as an ongoing work in progress, really right to

478
00:25:58.720 --> 00:25:59.920
continue to reflect on.

479
00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:03.079
Yeah, and look, I did when I was in my

480
00:26:03.160 --> 00:26:04.319
early thirties, and.

481
00:26:05.759 --> 00:26:07.279
You know, I've had a bit of a birthday in

482
00:26:07.279 --> 00:26:07.680
a few.

483
00:26:07.599 --> 00:26:10.839
Years ago, and you know, twenty years on I revisited

484
00:26:10.839 --> 00:26:15.480
those values. They haven't really changed, but the words have,

485
00:26:15.640 --> 00:26:18.319
so I think the words have become a little more sophisticated,

486
00:26:18.359 --> 00:26:20.920
I like to think cass than what they were when

487
00:26:20.920 --> 00:26:21.680
I was thirty.

488
00:26:21.960 --> 00:26:24.359
But they're basically the same values, you know.

489
00:26:24.680 --> 00:26:27.839
So, and in fact, the research that I've read scenes

490
00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:32.319
to show that they don't change significantly over our lifetime

491
00:26:32.359 --> 00:26:34.799
once you get real clarity about what matters most.

492
00:26:38.680 --> 00:26:41.960
I hope that you're enjoying this conversation and realizing the

493
00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:44.920
benefits of positivity in your own life. If you are

494
00:26:45.039 --> 00:26:47.759
enjoying the show, please be sure to like and subscribe

495
00:26:47.759 --> 00:26:50.119
so that you get notified when you epps drop and

496
00:26:50.200 --> 00:26:52.640
head on over to Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen

497
00:26:52.680 --> 00:27:01.440
and leave us a rating and review Suse you want

498
00:27:01.440 --> 00:27:03.359
to pick up on something you said too about the

499
00:27:04.519 --> 00:27:07.480
I'm familiar with act as well, obviously acceptance a commitment,

500
00:27:07.680 --> 00:27:12.279
therapy or training and living a life that is authentic

501
00:27:12.319 --> 00:27:15.359
and in line with our values and tolerating discomfort. Now,

502
00:27:15.400 --> 00:27:17.160
I wanted to pick up on that because I think

503
00:27:17.200 --> 00:27:19.960
that a lot of people think that this positivity and

504
00:27:20.039 --> 00:27:22.960
this happiness stuff, and I've been accused of this like that.

505
00:27:23.119 --> 00:27:26.119
I've been told, well not told. Somebody posted on my

506
00:27:26.119 --> 00:27:30.000
Facebook once that it was irresponsible of me to be

507
00:27:30.079 --> 00:27:33.599
promoting this idea of happiness because it's completely unrealistic for

508
00:27:33.680 --> 00:27:36.039
people to be happy all the time, and therefore was

509
00:27:36.039 --> 00:27:38.839
irresponsible for somebody in mental health to be suggesting that

510
00:27:38.839 --> 00:27:42.640
that was a goal for people, which clearly anybody who

511
00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:45.000
knows my work knows that that's not my goal. Can51200:27:45.039 --> 00:27:48.519



you just counter that in terms of we're not about51300:27:48.519 --> 00:27:50.440



being happy all the time? Are we? No?51400:27:50.880 --> 00:27:52.880



You and I, as clin sites know they'll lock you51500:27:53.000 --> 00:27:53.920



up as you are are.51600:27:53.960 --> 00:28:01.240



Usually say they will seriously lock you up. It's not normal, right,51700:28:01.240 --> 00:28:03.720



It's just not normal to walk around with that big yellow,51800:28:03.720 --> 00:28:09.839



happy Svalley face all day. But yeah, I think, look,51900:28:10.039 --> 00:28:13.119



I'm not doctor happy, right, And in fact, some of52000:28:13.119 --> 00:28:16.079



my colleagues call me doctor Cantankeres.52100:28:15.400 --> 00:28:16.920



Caspar so.52200:28:20.200 --> 00:28:21.119



Yeah it larious.52300:28:21.559 --> 00:28:24.079



Yeah, And look again, I think the benefit of coming52400:28:24.079 --> 00:28:28.319



from a clinical background is that we know that the52500:28:28.440 --> 00:28:32.160



full range of human emotions are absolutely important for us.52600:28:32.200 --> 00:28:34.359



They're normal and they're appropriate.52700:28:35.279 --> 00:28:37.880



The only issue, as you and I know, becomes when52800:28:37.920 --> 00:28:40.759



they go to their clinical extreme. So for example, when52900:28:40.799 --> 00:28:45.839



sadness becomes clinical depression, when anger becomes rage, when anxiety53000:28:45.880 --> 00:28:49.839



becomes well, you know, fear becomes an anxiety disorder, and53100:28:49.880 --> 00:28:52.599



even as I mentioned before, when happiness becomes mania, you know,53200:28:52.799 --> 00:28:55.799



at that end, and I get a bit cranky, honestly53300:28:55.839 --> 00:28:58.680



when I hear comments like that, and I'm actually writing53400:28:58.680 --> 00:29:01.200



a blog I'm going to post on LinkedIn about this,53500:29:01.880 --> 00:29:05.559



about this concept of toxic positivity, and I understand where53600:29:05.559 --> 00:29:08.480



it's coming from, and it's exactly we agree.53700:29:08.559 --> 00:29:10.400



We don't want people to be.53800:29:10.759 --> 00:29:17.039



Forcing you know, positivity and absolutely repressing or suppressing difficult emotions,53900:29:17.079 --> 00:29:21.039



because emotions are information, They're there for a reason, and54000:29:21.079 --> 00:29:23.599



it's really important to pay attention to them. And if54100:29:23.599 --> 00:29:26.039



we just push them down, well, number one, we know54200:29:26.079 --> 00:29:28.039



they're going to find a way back up because the54300:29:28.079 --> 00:29:30.599



more you do that, they do tend to say hey,54400:29:30.599 --> 00:29:33.640



Susie and try and get your attention a little bit more.54500:29:34.119 --> 00:29:38.759



But I hate to see this dichotomous approach that. You know,54600:29:39.559 --> 00:29:42.400



if you're talking to people about being happy or positive,54700:29:42.559 --> 00:29:45.680



that means that you're not saying it's okay to experience54800:29:46.160 --> 00:29:49.839



nets the so called negative emotions. And I'm not saying54900:29:49.839 --> 00:29:52.680



that you're not saying that at all, but what we55000:29:52.720 --> 00:29:56.640



are saying is, yes, it's really important to be able55100:29:56.680 --> 00:30:01.200



to sit with uncomfortable emotions because you know, they are information,55200:30:01.279 --> 00:30:03.720



as we said, and sometimes we need to do that55300:30:03.880 --> 00:30:08.440



to move in values congruent direction as we were saying before.55400:30:09.240 --> 00:30:12.400



And it's normal like when COVID first hit, I know myself,55500:30:12.400 --> 00:30:14.680



i'd sit down and turn that news on it I'd55600:30:14.680 --> 00:30:16.960



fear to feel a fear response, and then I'm thinking55700:30:17.039 --> 00:30:19.000



about my business and I don't.55800:30:18.839 --> 00:30:21.359



Know how are we going to survive? So all of55900:30:21.400 --> 00:30:22.599



that started to happen.56000:30:23.039 --> 00:30:25.960



But I guess I had the skills at the time56100:30:26.119 --> 00:30:28.720



to be able to be aware of that, to notice56200:30:28.759 --> 00:30:32.720



those emotions, to be curious about those emotions, but then56300:30:32.839 --> 00:30:35.519



to decide not that I'm going to push them aside56400:30:35.599 --> 00:30:39.759



or disregard them. But for the moment, right now, I56500:30:39.799 --> 00:30:43.279



had family coming over. I wanted to switch gears. I56600:30:43.319 --> 00:30:45.759



wanted to cook a beautiful meal for my family. I56700:30:45.880 --> 00:30:48.400



put on a piece of mood boosting music, you know,56800:30:48.759 --> 00:30:51.200



I put a candle on and I started to bring56900:30:51.240 --> 00:30:54.319



my mindful attention to the activity at hand, and I57000:30:54.440 --> 00:30:57.359



felt my mood started to lift. So I don't think57100:30:57.400 --> 00:31:01.480



it has to be an either or situation. But again57200:31:02.079 --> 00:31:06.559



we certainly agree it's not about forcing you know, positivity57300:31:06.640 --> 00:31:09.839



or happiness or just thinking positive because as one of57400:31:09.839 --> 00:31:14.200



my colleagues as thinking positive thinking without positive action will57500:31:14.200 --> 00:31:15.920



give you positively nothing, you.57600:31:15.960 --> 00:31:19.519



Know, so we all know that you need the action,57700:31:19.759 --> 00:31:19.920



you know.57800:31:20.000 --> 00:31:23.559



It's not just the secret of thinking that you you know, look,57900:31:23.640 --> 00:31:26.519



I usually say, look like element persons, and then tomorrow58000:31:26.519 --> 00:31:28.880



you wake up and you have we need. There's nothing58100:31:28.920 --> 00:31:32.640



wrong with having visions, and we know from coaching in particular,58200:31:32.680 --> 00:31:35.720



that's really powerful to have an inspiring vision or a58300:31:35.799 --> 00:31:39.319



vision board, but we need the accompanying action to.58400:31:39.279 --> 00:31:42.000



Be able to move towards the creation of that vision.58500:31:42.720 --> 00:31:46.440



And Susie, you've mentioned coaching a few times, and I58600:31:46.480 --> 00:31:48.799



know that you've done a lot of work, not just individually,58700:31:48.839 --> 00:31:53.440



but going into organizations and doing workplace coaching, executive coaching.58800:31:54.119 --> 00:31:58.599



I'm curious to know you know your work is in positivity.58900:31:59.720 --> 00:32:05.519



What is the benefit to organizations of fostering more positive workplaces?59000:32:05.640 --> 00:32:07.720



And I guess also part B to that question is59100:32:08.440 --> 00:32:12.079



our organizations on board with that? Do they actually realize59200:32:12.119 --> 00:32:16.240



now the bottom line benefit of cultivating a more positive59300:32:16.319 --> 00:32:17.319



environment at work.59400:32:17.960 --> 00:32:20.279



I think we've We've got a bit of a way59500:32:20.279 --> 00:32:24.640



to go. I think yeah, So I think definitely some59600:32:24.799 --> 00:32:29.200



are particularly some of the innovative ones that perhaps like Google,59700:32:29.279 --> 00:32:31.799



and I'm aware that Zero have done some work with59800:32:31.880 --> 00:32:35.319



post psyche as well. We're being fortunate to work with59900:32:35.359 --> 00:32:40.160



the Global consultancy ACCENTUA here in Australia and the leader60000:32:40.200 --> 00:32:42.519



at the time when we were brought in actually had60100:32:42.880 --> 00:32:46.039



or has a master's in positive psychology. So a bit60200:32:46.039 --> 00:32:48.359



of a dream client for us to work with a60300:32:48.480 --> 00:32:52.119



senior leader that actually understands the science. So I didn't60400:32:52.119 --> 00:32:54.319



really have to go in and give the business case.60500:32:54.559 --> 00:32:58.119



He knew the business case, he'd studied that, hence why60600:32:58.160 --> 00:33:00.640



he brought us in to work with his leader on60700:33:00.839 --> 00:33:05.640



both understanding the science of positive psychology, positive organizational scholarship,60800:33:05.640 --> 00:33:08.279



which is a study of post psych in workplace settings,60900:33:08.440 --> 00:33:11.880



and also coaching as a means to really apply that61000:33:12.000 --> 00:33:15.279



science as well. So I think, yeah, my part of61100:33:15.319 --> 00:33:19.680



my I guess mission is to educate workplaces around the61200:33:19.720 --> 00:33:23.839



real benefits of being proactive teaching not just leaders, but61300:33:24.119 --> 00:33:28.519



all people in a workplace the science of positive psychology.61400:33:28.559 --> 00:33:31.079



That's what I'd love to see happen as we go forward.61500:33:31.440 --> 00:33:34.799



And coaching really is a means, as I said before,61600:33:34.839 --> 00:33:39.079



to apply the science because we see lots of organizations61700:33:39.119 --> 00:33:44.240



investing which is often not cheap in training days. We61800:33:44.319 --> 00:33:49.240



know from multiple studies. Now the research varies, but you know,61900:33:49.519 --> 00:33:53.119



around less than ten percent people will retain from a62000:33:53.160 --> 00:33:56.400



training day. So unless we have some sort of mechanism62100:33:56.759 --> 00:34:00.119



to transfer that knowledge and put it into action, it's62200:34:00.160 --> 00:34:03.000



a complete waste of money and people's time. So we62300:34:03.359 --> 00:34:06.400



have been strong proponent of the use of coaching. Again,62400:34:06.480 --> 00:34:09.840



there's studies to show the coaching enhances transfer of training,62500:34:10.880 --> 00:34:12.800



and that doesn't necessarily.62600:34:12.320 --> 00:34:13.760



Have to be professional coaching.62700:34:14.000 --> 00:34:16.920



I mean, we come in as professional coaches like yourself62800:34:16.960 --> 00:34:21.480



hold masters in coaching psychology. But it could also be62900:34:21.519 --> 00:34:23.960



as part of the training day where you set up63000:34:24.079 --> 00:34:28.400



some peer coaching arrangements with people and teach them some63100:34:28.480 --> 00:34:32.320



basic coaching skills as well, and that's not too difficult63200:34:32.400 --> 00:34:34.960



to do really, And in fact, again I mentioned there63300:34:35.039 --> 00:34:37.519



was a recent paper in the Journal of Positive psych63400:34:37.719 --> 00:34:41.039



another recent paper in the Journal of Positive Psyche comparing63500:34:41.119 --> 00:34:45.039



a positive psych intervention, which is basically learning all about63600:34:45.079 --> 00:34:49.559



these different topics versus a coaching psych intervention, and the63700:34:50.440 --> 00:34:54.000



positive psyche did lead to increases in happiness and well63800:34:54.039 --> 00:34:56.599



being if you like. But the coaching led to a63900:34:56.639 --> 00:35:01.400



whole range of benefits beyond that. It looked at insight,64000:35:02.159 --> 00:35:05.679



how much insight we learn about ourselves as as human beings.64100:35:05.880 --> 00:35:08.920



It had an impact on resilience, for example, and it64200:35:09.000 --> 00:35:12.519



had an impact on a broader conception of well being64300:35:12.639 --> 00:35:16.639



psychological well being, so things like meaning and purpose and64400:35:16.719 --> 00:35:20.599



positive relationships with others. So that's for me, that paper64500:35:20.679 --> 00:35:22.280



is going to be a bit of a game changer64600:35:22.360 --> 00:35:26.400



because it's I guess, finally showing that coaching is a64700:35:26.480 --> 00:35:32.960



really important, I guess supplement to the science of positive psychology.64800:35:33.119 --> 00:35:37.039



Because that's where you started, right. You did the world64900:35:37.119 --> 00:35:42.199



first study on coaching as a positive psychology intervention. Have65000:35:42.320 --> 00:35:43.039



I got that correct?65100:35:43.079 --> 00:35:44.280



A long time ago?65200:35:45.440 --> 00:35:49.960



Yesh, you were lecturing me, good master student a very65300:35:50.039 --> 00:35:50.880



long time ago.65400:35:51.039 --> 00:35:51.719



Yes, it was.65500:35:51.800 --> 00:35:54.360



And look you and I were the converted and we65600:35:54.440 --> 00:35:58.760



know it works for time. Unfortunately, coaching psychology, which started65700:35:58.880 --> 00:36:01.480



in Sydney, Australia, it's something I'm very proud of. I65800:36:01.519 --> 00:36:04.039



know you are too. That it's a home grown field.65900:36:05.440 --> 00:36:08.239



It's made some headway in the UK and Europe. It66000:36:08.280 --> 00:36:10.760



hasn't really made it into the US, which is where66100:36:11.159 --> 00:36:15.360



positive psychology really has a large foothold, and there are66200:36:15.360 --> 00:36:18.679



some really big names within positive side.66300:36:19.039 --> 00:36:21.239



But I really do believe.66400:36:20.880 --> 00:36:23.920



That we're finally going to start to see greater acknowledgment66500:36:24.000 --> 00:36:26.840



of the role of coaching within positive psychology as we66600:36:26.880 --> 00:36:27.519



move forward.66700:36:28.440 --> 00:36:32.239



And Suzi, just going back to that organizations, what are66800:36:32.280 --> 00:36:34.800



the bottom line benefits, what is the business case?66900:36:34.840 --> 00:36:37.079



So look, to be honest, we do need more research.67000:36:37.159 --> 00:36:40.280



Casp There's some one fairly powerful study that was done67100:36:40.519 --> 00:36:45.559



by Professor Kim Cameron that showed that there were objective67200:36:45.679 --> 00:36:50.280



measures of organizational effectiveness after they looked at what is67300:36:50.320 --> 00:36:54.920



referred to as positive workplace practices. So in organizations that67400:36:55.039 --> 00:37:00.000



had a significant amount of these pwps, positive workplace practice,67500:37:00.559 --> 00:37:04.480



so they were things like expressions of gratitude and appreciation,67600:37:04.920 --> 00:37:10.639



regular expressions within team meetings and across the organization, forgiving culture,67700:37:11.000 --> 00:37:14.440



so rather than a blame and shame culture, people knew67800:37:14.440 --> 00:37:16.880



that they could be creative, that there was a level67900:37:16.920 --> 00:37:19.400



of psychological safety, which a lot of people are talking68000:37:19.480 --> 00:37:22.119



about now, and that people would be forgiven if they68100:37:22.199 --> 00:37:26.599



made mistakes. And the other big positive workplace practice was68200:37:27.079 --> 00:37:30.960



practices of compassion, so when people were going through hard times,68300:37:31.079 --> 00:37:34.360



not just the leaders, but the people around them really68400:37:34.400 --> 00:37:36.960



came around and supported people when they were going through68500:37:37.000 --> 00:37:40.320



tough times. And organizations that had a high degree of68600:37:40.360 --> 00:37:46.000



those practices had they looked at objective not just subjective measures.68700:37:46.000 --> 00:37:49.320



So they looked at financial performance, they looked at three68800:37:49.400 --> 00:37:53.000



sixty degree feedback, and they looked at customer satisfaction ratings,68900:37:53.440 --> 00:37:57.480



and again these organizations had significantly.69000:37:56.840 --> 00:37:59.079



Higher levels the more of these.69100:37:58.960 --> 00:38:02.480



Positive workplices that were happening within there.69200:38:03.159 --> 00:38:05.960



Wow, I just wanted to touch on that because I69300:38:05.960 --> 00:38:08.599



know listeners of the podcast are all individuals, and we're69400:38:08.639 --> 00:38:11.320



all thinking about how do I make these improvements in69500:38:11.320 --> 00:38:13.079



my own life, Like what's in this for me? But69600:38:13.159 --> 00:38:16.039



I think it's really we all go to work, and69700:38:17.119 --> 00:38:19.039



I think we need to get away from this idea69800:38:19.079 --> 00:38:22.960



that there's me at home with my compassion and my gratitude,69900:38:22.960 --> 00:38:25.360



and then there's this different me who goes into this70000:38:25.599 --> 00:38:29.320



workplace and is just focused on outcomes. We really need70100:38:29.360 --> 00:38:34.480



to start blending those and seeing the value of those70200:38:34.880 --> 00:38:38.760



traits and characteristics and interventions and tools in that context,70300:38:38.800 --> 00:38:39.679



I think, yeah, And look.70400:38:39.599 --> 00:38:41.320



I'm seeing a lot of grassroots.70500:38:41.880 --> 00:38:45.199



You know, I'm still surprised when I get phone calls70600:38:45.239 --> 00:38:47.679



and they perhaps want me or someone from the team70700:38:47.679 --> 00:38:50.440



to come in and give them I guess the scientific70800:38:50.480 --> 00:38:52.880



case for it. But they've already been bringing in some70900:38:52.920 --> 00:38:55.000



of the books that have made it out into the71000:38:55.039 --> 00:38:57.960



self help and again from some of the top scientists71100:38:58.000 --> 00:39:01.840



in the field, like Sony Lubermirsky, Professor Barbara Frederickson. But71200:39:01.880 --> 00:39:05.119



they've already started book clubs. You know, they've left books71300:39:05.159 --> 00:39:08.239



in perhaps your book as well, becas in the staff room,71400:39:08.280 --> 00:39:12.000



and people that they would never have expected to be interested,71500:39:12.400 --> 00:39:15.039



have picked these books up and have started to come71600:39:15.079 --> 00:39:18.440



along to some of these positive psychology group meetings. So71700:39:18.719 --> 00:39:22.639



I'm you know, it's inspiring to see that there is71800:39:22.800 --> 00:39:27.119



interest that's growing in the workplace. And again it may71900:39:27.159 --> 00:39:30.360



not have to involve a large cost by bringing in72000:39:30.679 --> 00:39:33.880



a consultant. They might just use a consultant, you know,72100:39:33.960 --> 00:39:39.239



quite strategically, but they've got enough grassroots in interest and72200:39:39.440 --> 00:39:43.119



energy to keep it going and keep it fresh because72300:39:43.360 --> 00:39:46.159



it is something when we have worked with a number72400:39:46.199 --> 00:39:49.079



of organizations. There's lots of initiatives that you can do72500:39:49.159 --> 00:39:51.800



and you know we can certainly advise on that, but72600:39:52.559 --> 00:39:54.320



you've got to keep it fresh all the time.72700:39:54.400 --> 00:39:56.159



So you want new people coming in.72800:39:56.199 --> 00:39:59.119



If you've got a group of well being champions, you72900:39:59.199 --> 00:40:02.559



want new i is all the time, new little videos,73000:40:02.599 --> 00:40:05.960



mood boosting videos, new research being brought in. It's not73100:40:06.039 --> 00:40:08.840



something well, it's very similar to you don't just go73200:40:08.920 --> 00:40:11.039



to the gym once and think that you're going to73300:40:11.079 --> 00:40:13.400



be an elite athlete. You've got to keep it up,73400:40:13.480 --> 00:40:15.159



you know, and you've got to keep it fresh and73500:40:15.239 --> 00:40:16.760



doing new things all the time.73600:40:17.400 --> 00:40:19.239



There's a lot of talk at the moment about the73700:40:19.280 --> 00:40:24.559



mental health ramifications, you know, and the ongoing potential mental73800:40:24.559 --> 00:40:27.960



health impact of what we've all been through with COVID,73900:40:28.400 --> 00:40:31.159



and there's real focus on there's going to be a74000:40:31.159 --> 00:40:36.920



great need for psychological services and support for people. What74100:40:37.039 --> 00:40:39.440



is the role and you've probably summed this up already,74200:40:39.440 --> 00:40:42.199



but really what role does positive psychology have to play74300:40:42.239 --> 00:40:46.360



in this in terms of just that resilience boosting and74400:40:46.719 --> 00:40:51.559



helping people to cope with really challenging experiences in life.74500:40:51.840 --> 00:40:52.159



Yeah.74600:40:52.199 --> 00:40:55.880



Absolutely, As I said before, resilience does, even though it74700:40:55.960 --> 00:40:59.320



was pre existing, it does fall under the umbrella of74800:40:59.360 --> 00:41:03.480



positive stuff coology and in fact research looking at psychological74900:41:03.519 --> 00:41:06.639



well being. I mean, they still quite a bit of75000:41:06.719 --> 00:41:10.480



debate about what are the key or essential components for75100:41:11.400 --> 00:41:14.440



somebody that is experiencing high levels of psychological being, But75200:41:14.920 --> 00:41:18.760



most of the scholars agree that it's underpinned by resilience.75300:41:19.119 --> 00:41:22.400



So resilience and most of us have a very general75400:41:22.480 --> 00:41:26.800



understanding that it means our capacity to bounce back from adversity.75500:41:27.280 --> 00:41:30.519



And even building on that research, there's an area around75600:41:31.159 --> 00:41:35.519



post traumatic growth, which again needs some more research, but75700:41:35.599 --> 00:41:38.480



it's a really interesting area looking at when people go75800:41:38.599 --> 00:41:42.639



through significant adversity and rather than develop a mental illness,75900:41:42.639 --> 00:41:47.360



they actually grow stronger and better, faster, stronger, better, if76000:41:47.400 --> 00:41:50.519



you like, through that experience. So that is ongoing research.76100:41:51.199 --> 00:41:53.960



The paper I mentioned about positive psych and a pandemic76200:41:54.239 --> 00:41:58.320



also talks about coping and gain. That's drawing on probably76300:41:58.400 --> 00:42:02.000



more broader psychological res search as well. But there are76400:42:02.599 --> 00:42:06.360



lots of, I guess, components of positive sites that can76500:42:06.440 --> 00:42:10.639



certainly help when things are uncertain. Mindfulness, again, even though76600:42:10.679 --> 00:42:14.480



it sits under its own scientific field, we have definitely76700:42:14.519 --> 00:42:17.760



brought it in under the umbrella a positive psychology, so76800:42:18.639 --> 00:42:21.039



right now, and I'm sure and I know you are76900:42:21.400 --> 00:42:23.599



a big supporter of this too. For me, it would77000:42:23.639 --> 00:42:27.440



be a non negotiable having some form of mindfulness meditation77100:42:27.559 --> 00:42:30.559



and there are various forms as well, and of course77200:42:30.599 --> 00:42:34.840



I mentioned the loving kindness type meditation and of.77300:42:34.800 --> 00:42:36.880



Course yeah, it's a great one.77400:42:36.920 --> 00:42:41.320



It's a beautiful one, is loving kindness, Yes, absolutely beautiful.77500:42:41.519 --> 00:42:44.119



So yes, I guess the simple answer is that there's77600:42:44.239 --> 00:42:47.679



a lot that we can draw on that in times77700:42:47.760 --> 00:42:51.519



when times are tough from a positive site perspective. Just quickly,77800:42:51.519 --> 00:42:55.440



one study that showed that when they did induce people77900:42:55.440 --> 00:42:59.079



into a stressful situation, and then they asked them.78000:42:59.280 --> 00:43:01.280



They had them I think in three or four groups.78100:43:01.559 --> 00:43:05.800



One group were put into this stressful situation and then78200:43:05.960 --> 00:43:09.239



they were asked to watch a funny video, perhaps a78300:43:09.320 --> 00:43:12.840



Seinfeld video or something. Another group were asked to watch78400:43:12.920 --> 00:43:15.800



a sad movie, and another group we were asked to78500:43:15.800 --> 00:43:19.000



watch I think a neutral video. And then they looked78600:43:19.039 --> 00:43:21.599



at cardiovascular reactivity.78700:43:21.719 --> 00:43:22.840



So when you're stressed, your.78800:43:22.760 --> 00:43:26.000



Heart rate goes up and all the other physiological physiological78900:43:26.039 --> 00:43:29.840



responses go up. People that watched a Seinfeld video, their79000:43:30.000 --> 00:43:35.079



return to baseline was significantly faster than people that just79100:43:35.119 --> 00:43:37.639



watched it, that watched a sad movie or watched a79200:43:37.679 --> 00:43:41.000



neutral type movie. And I think as we intuitively know79300:43:41.159 --> 00:43:44.000



that when we're stressed that we take ourselves off for79400:43:44.000 --> 00:43:45.440



a walk, or we pick up the phone to a79500:43:45.440 --> 00:43:47.159



friend that we know is going to give us a boost,79600:43:47.239 --> 00:43:49.840



or we do put on a Seinfeld episode. But it79700:43:49.960 --> 00:43:53.119



is I mean, again, a lot of this is intuitive,79800:43:53.239 --> 00:43:55.480



but the research supports it.79900:43:55.559 --> 00:43:58.480



Now it's nice to have that science to back it up.80000:43:58.800 --> 00:44:00.920



Absolutely, it's not just fluff anymore.80100:44:02.159 --> 00:44:05.079



Yeah, And we're not just distracting ourselves, it's actually having80200:44:05.119 --> 00:44:07.719



a positive impact. It's actually really making a difference to80300:44:07.719 --> 00:44:09.320



our physiology and it.80400:44:09.360 --> 00:44:11.840



Is been starting to be taught at school as well,80500:44:11.880 --> 00:44:14.119



which is my dream for the future that we all80600:44:14.199 --> 00:44:15.440



learn this at school.80700:44:15.719 --> 00:44:18.760



And mine as well. And I know that you have80800:44:18.880 --> 00:44:22.639



been a leader in that area as well, So do80900:44:22.679 --> 00:44:24.519



you want to talk a little bit about that, about81000:44:24.760 --> 00:44:28.360



how we can be incorporating this and teaching it to81100:44:28.400 --> 00:44:29.320



our kids in schools.81200:44:29.719 --> 00:44:33.400



Absolutely, it's my most meaningful work, even though the majority81300:44:33.440 --> 00:44:35.639



of our work is in the workplace and it's a81400:44:36.079 --> 00:44:38.920



much smaller component is the work that we do in schools,81500:44:39.880 --> 00:44:42.119



but it is the most meaningful work. So we've been81600:44:42.119 --> 00:44:45.320



involved in this field of positive education for over ten81700:44:45.440 --> 00:44:49.679



years now. It did launch here in Australia, originally at81800:44:49.719 --> 00:44:54.840



Geelong Grammar School, but now it is growing day by day,81900:44:55.440 --> 00:45:00.119



not just in Australia but globally. COVID has given it82000:45:00.159 --> 00:45:02.400



has slowed it down a little bit as schools of82100:45:02.559 --> 00:45:05.679



really trying to come to terms with virtual teaching and82200:45:05.800 --> 00:45:09.519



homeschooling and all of those challenges there. But I think82300:45:09.559 --> 00:45:12.519



there's no turning back now CAAs I think the schools82400:45:12.519 --> 00:45:15.480



that have really been doing this a long time lunch82500:45:15.480 --> 00:45:17.920



to long like Perth College, who we've worked with for82600:45:18.000 --> 00:45:21.280



over five years, they will tell you, the teachers will82700:45:21.320 --> 00:45:25.519



actually have told me that if you have a child82800:45:25.599 --> 00:45:28.760



coming in, say in year seven, and they've come from82900:45:28.800 --> 00:45:31.519



a school that hasn't done any form of not just83000:45:31.599 --> 00:45:35.039



positive side, but social and emotional learning, which again for me,83100:45:35.159 --> 00:45:37.920



falls under the umbrella of positive site, but it does83200:45:37.960 --> 00:45:40.559



sit as its own separate field. If you have a83300:45:40.639 --> 00:45:42.559



child that has never had any of that and they83400:45:42.599 --> 00:45:45.239



come into a school in year seven, compared to a83500:45:45.320 --> 00:45:48.519



child that has been at the school and has learned83600:45:48.559 --> 00:45:53.480



about positive site and mindset skills and emotional skills, it83700:45:53.559 --> 00:45:58.599



is visibly obvious to the teachers, they say, you can83800:45:58.639 --> 00:46:03.199



tell in terms of how the student handles themselves, their83900:46:03.239 --> 00:46:08.039



own emotions, and also how they manage their social interactions84000:46:07.880 --> 00:46:13.360



as well. It's really obvious. So it will be the future, Cats,84100:46:13.760 --> 00:46:18.039



it will be the future. We'll have this in the future.84200:46:18.440 --> 00:46:21.280



And thinking about the long term effects of that as84300:46:21.320 --> 00:46:26.400



all of those children go on to become positive, emotionally healthy,84400:46:26.440 --> 00:46:32.440



well adjusted, resilient adults out into the workforce. It's amazing. Suzie.84500:46:32.440 --> 00:46:34.559



I've just got one last question and I want to.84600:46:34.840 --> 00:46:36.320



I know, I want to tell people how they can84700:46:36.320 --> 00:46:40.039



find out more about your positive psych programs that you offer.84800:46:40.119 --> 00:46:41.119



But if somebody is.84900:46:41.119 --> 00:46:43.239



Listening and going, oh okay, well, I've been feeling a85000:46:43.280 --> 00:46:45.639



bit crappy and I've been thinking that maybe I need.85100:46:45.480 --> 00:46:46.280



To talk to somebody.85200:46:46.360 --> 00:46:48.559



But do do I need to go and see a85300:46:48.599 --> 00:46:50.599



therapist or maybe do I need to see a coach85400:46:50.679 --> 00:46:53.599



and get some of this positive stuff going on? Like?85500:46:53.920 --> 00:46:55.480



Is there a way for people to be able to85600:46:55.519 --> 00:47:00.480



readily tell that they can screen what should they do?85700:47:00.760 --> 00:47:01.079



Yeah?85800:47:01.320 --> 00:47:03.400



Look, there's a lot I could say about that, but85900:47:03.960 --> 00:47:07.000



we have a flourishing scale which people can contact us86000:47:07.079 --> 00:47:10.239



about that will help determine whether you might be better86100:47:10.280 --> 00:47:14.920



off seeking some counseling or some clinical treatment. The Black86200:47:14.920 --> 00:47:18.480



Dog Institute also have some assessments on their website that86300:47:18.519 --> 00:47:22.159



you can go to. But I know from my research86400:47:22.239 --> 00:47:26.360



that often people will seek out coaching because they don't86500:47:26.360 --> 00:47:29.840



necessarily want to see a therapist. Over the last fifteen years,86600:47:29.840 --> 00:47:33.079



I've seen that change, thankfully, Cas. I've seen people be86700:47:33.199 --> 00:47:36.920



more open to talking about going to therapy. It's not86800:47:37.119 --> 00:47:40.320



like New York yet, where people brag about their therapists.86900:47:40.360 --> 00:47:42.679



I really want to see it become like that in87000:47:42.719 --> 00:47:47.400



the future. So part of my mission besides encouraging people87100:47:47.480 --> 00:47:52.360



to perhaps have some coaching to determine what matters most87200:47:52.360 --> 00:47:55.599



and how they want to live their ideal lives, but87300:47:55.960 --> 00:47:59.519



simultaneously I would love to see people go and seek87400:47:59.559 --> 00:48:03.880



profession or help for counseling or for therapy. And we87500:48:04.039 --> 00:48:08.960



also we offer a very I guess a brief chat87600:48:09.000 --> 00:48:12.519



on the phone if you're also unsure about whether coaching87700:48:12.599 --> 00:48:13.159



or counseling.87800:48:13.199 --> 00:48:15.800



We don't offer counseling, but we can.87900:48:15.679 --> 00:48:17.719



Certainly refer, but you do offer coaching.88000:48:17.760 --> 00:48:21.199



We do offer coaching, and the Australian psych Society, as88100:48:21.239 --> 00:48:24.039



you know CAUs have a Finder Psychologist service as well.88200:48:24.199 --> 00:48:24.760



But yeah, I.88300:48:24.679 --> 00:48:27.320



Would love to see people more people go and have88400:48:27.400 --> 00:48:31.039



therapy as well as coaching to determine where they want88500:48:31.079 --> 00:48:32.039



to go into the future.88600:48:33.199 --> 00:48:35.239



I'm really happy to hear you say that about less88700:48:35.719 --> 00:48:38.199



people now are showing up for coaching who probably really88800:48:38.199 --> 00:48:40.079



need to see a therapist, because I know that when88900:48:40.119 --> 00:48:43.039



I was life coaching that I definitely had a bit89000:48:43.039 --> 00:48:45.320



of that and I hadn't done my clinical psyche training.89100:48:45.320 --> 00:48:47.239



That I did coaching first and then went back to89200:48:47.239 --> 00:48:51.800



finish my clinical training, so I wasn't even necessarily I89300:48:51.840 --> 00:48:55.760



didn't necessarily at the time even know how to differentiate89400:48:55.880 --> 00:48:58.960



or to tell myself if this person really needed to89500:48:58.960 --> 00:49:02.239



see a therapist, could find myself in a coaching relationship89600:49:02.239 --> 00:49:05.480



with somebody who probably really needed to see a therapist,89700:49:05.480 --> 00:49:07.199



and I didn't have the skills at the time to89800:49:07.239 --> 00:49:09.719



know that. So that's a really important point to make89900:49:09.840 --> 00:49:12.960



and also good to know that now and what people90000:49:13.000 --> 00:49:15.480



are more willing to actually go and see a therapist.90100:49:15.559 --> 00:49:17.679



True, but it's a good point too because there are90200:49:17.960 --> 00:49:19.960



a lot of coaches out there, as you know kas90300:49:20.079 --> 00:49:23.679



and it's an unregulated industry. So my advice would be90400:49:23.760 --> 00:49:26.039



to ask a lot of questions if you're engaging a90500:49:26.119 --> 00:49:29.119



coach about what their education is, what their background, Have90600:49:29.199 --> 00:49:32.400



they had any mental health training because a lot of90700:49:32.440 --> 00:49:35.199



coaches in the past, I do believe it is changing now,90800:49:35.519 --> 00:49:40.159



have never covered off on basic mental health training or90900:49:40.199 --> 00:49:43.400



first aid for coaches, assuming that they weren't seeing people91000:49:43.440 --> 00:49:46.599



that had mental health issues, when in fact the statistics91100:49:47.159 --> 00:49:50.519



will would suggest that a lot of people will have91200:49:50.639 --> 00:49:53.039



mental health issues that are arriving for coaching.91300:49:53.719 --> 00:49:55.800



Yeah, can you tell us also I just know too91400:49:55.960 --> 00:49:58.320



before you go that you've got a program. Is it91500:49:58.360 --> 00:50:00.440



an online course that you're running.91600:50:00.840 --> 00:50:04.199



Yes, So I run the Positivity Prescription, which is also91700:50:04.440 --> 00:50:07.280



the name of my book that are published last year.91800:50:07.360 --> 00:50:10.239



We run once a year, the Class of twenty twenty one.91900:50:10.280 --> 00:50:10.840



It is this year.92000:50:10.880 --> 00:50:15.039



It's my fourth year running it. It's standalone videos and92100:50:15.039 --> 00:50:17.159



then I come on for a live live in the92200:50:17.239 --> 00:50:19.119



Lab call once a week where you can sort of92300:50:19.119 --> 00:50:21.480



ask me any questions that you like around the content,92400:50:21.519 --> 00:50:24.079



and I usually bring the latest research hot off the92500:50:24.119 --> 00:50:27.239



press to those calls as well. And we also launched92600:50:27.280 --> 00:50:30.360



last year program called Potential Plus, which is a workplace92700:50:30.719 --> 00:50:34.159



standalone program which I'm also really excited for, but that's92800:50:34.199 --> 00:50:37.480



mainly for businesses to offer to their staff. But yeah,92900:50:37.679 --> 00:50:41.320



we'd love to see some of the listeners in the.93000:50:41.280 --> 00:50:45.159



Class this year, cats jumping in, jumping in while they can,93100:50:45.719 --> 00:50:49.119



Susie and I know that you've offered a special discount93200:50:49.199 --> 00:50:51.119



for Creppy to happy listeners, which I will put in93300:50:51.119 --> 00:50:55.599



the show notes. But this has been amazing, really insightful.93400:50:55.840 --> 00:50:58.239



Thank you so much for your time and lovely to93500:50:58.280 --> 00:50:58.800



catch up.93600:50:58.679 --> 00:51:00.679



With you now. Thank you Cas the work that you93700:51:00.800 --> 00:51:05.880



do is really important. Historically, psychologists haven't really been out93800:51:05.880 --> 00:51:08.440



there talking much about the work that we do in93900:51:08.519 --> 00:51:11.599



the media and the public. It's very brave of you94000:51:11.719 --> 00:51:14.360



to do so, but it's much needed. So good on94100:51:14.440 --> 00:51:16.400



you and keep up the fantastic work.94200:51:16.800 --> 00:51:19.119



Thank you, Susie, and you too. I know you've done94300:51:19.159 --> 00:51:22.079



your share of workout in the media as well, and94400:51:22.119 --> 00:51:25.239



I think hopefully more and more of us are getting94500:51:25.280 --> 00:51:31.239



out and spreading the words, so I appreciate it. If94600:51:31.239 --> 00:51:33.880



you would like to check out Susie's six week course,94700:51:34.119 --> 00:51:36.840



The Positivity Prescription and be part of her class of94800:51:36.880 --> 00:51:40.519



twenty twenty one, head to the Positivityinstitute dot com, DOTU94900:51:40.599 --> 00:51:43.559



forward slash shop and use the code crappy to Happy95000:51:43.599 --> 00:51:46.360



twenty one to take ten percent off the course fee.95100:51:46.559 --> 00:51:49.719



That's crappy to Happy twenty one. You'll find Susie on95200:51:49.800 --> 00:51:53.400



Instagram at doctor susig or. As I said, her website95300:51:53.440 --> 00:51:56.519



is the Positivityinstitute dot com dot a you. Of course,95400:51:56.519 --> 00:51:59.159



you can always connect with me on Instagram, Cash Done,95500:51:59.239 --> 00:52:03.559



Underscore x so or Castdone dot com is my website.95600:52:03.639 --> 00:52:05.639



If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to leave us95700:52:05.639 --> 00:52:08.119



a rating and review. I also love reading your messages,95800:52:08.159 --> 00:52:11.320



so shoot me a DM on Instagram or email hello95900:52:11.400 --> 00:52:15.559



at castdone dot com. This wraps up our current season96000:52:15.599 --> 00:52:18.440



of Crappy to Happy. I'll be taking a very short break,96100:52:18.559 --> 00:52:20.360



just for a few weeks, and I'll be back with96200:52:20.480 --> 00:52:23.039



new episodes in a month or so. So now is96300:52:23.079 --> 00:52:25.000



your chance to go back through the back catalog and96400:52:25.039 --> 00:52:27.400



catch up on any episodes that you might have missed96500:52:27.760 --> 00:52:30.880



or re listen to some of your old favorites. Also,96600:52:30.920 --> 00:52:33.320



don't forget my third book, Crappy to Happy Love who96700:52:33.360 --> 00:52:36.039



You're With, is out in a matter of weeks, and96800:52:36.119 --> 00:52:38.320



the link to order that will be in the show notes.96900:52:38.440 --> 00:52:41.000



I will catch you very soon on the next season97000:52:41.079 --> 00:52:44.639



of Crappy to Happy. Crappy to Happy is presented by97100:52:44.639 --> 00:52:48.920



Cast dun produced by Davis Lenski, Audio production by Darcy Thompson.97200:52:52.760 --> 00:52:53.239



Listener