Feb. 22, 2021

The Positivity Prescription with Dr Suzy Green

The Positivity Prescription with Dr Suzy Green
The Positivity Prescription with Dr Suzy Green
Crappy to Happy
The Positivity Prescription with Dr Suzy Green
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Season 6Psychology & NeuroscienceGoals & Habits

Founder and CEO of The Positivity Institute, Dr Suzy Green joins Cass Dunn to talk about the power of positive psychology to cultivate resilience, deal with life’s challenges and to fulfil your potential. At a time when we’re experiencing global crises, unprecedented changes to the way we live our lives, and ongoing uncertainty about the future, Suzy shares the science of positive psychology and the tools we can all use to help us manage our mood, motivation and mindset.

Find out more about Suzy:
www.thepositivityinstitute.com.auwww.instagram.com/drsuzyg

You can buy Suzy's book The Positivity Prescription here: https://tinyurl.com/wce3sysw

Connect with Cass:

www.cassdunn.com
www.instagram.com/cassdunn_xo

Contact Crappy to Happy:

Email: hello@crappytohappypod.com
www.crappytohappypod.com
www.instagram.com/crappytohappypod
www.tiktok.com/@crappytohappypod

Are you a coach, therapist, service provider or solopreneur struggling with self-doubt and imposter syndrome? I'd love to talk to you! (for market research purposes only!)

Book a call with me to share your experience.

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Transcript
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A listener production.

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Hey, you're listening to Crappy to Happy. I'm your host,

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Cas Dunn. I'm a clinical and coaching psychologist, a mindfulness

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meditation teacher, and author of the Crappy to Happy books.

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In this show, we talk about all the things that

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might be making you feel crappy and give you the

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tools and tips to help you overcome them. And of course,

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in each episode, I bring you conversations with interesting, inspiring,

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intelligent people who are experts in their field. And my

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hope is that you take something from these conversations that

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helps you feel a little bit less crappy and more happy. Today,

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I am so excited to introduce you to my friend colleague,

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one of my early mentors, doctor Susie Green now Susie

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like me, is a clinical and coaching psychologist. She is

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the founder and CEO of the Positivity Institute, which is

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an organization whose mission it is to help create flourishing

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lives and increase the wellbeing of the world. Now, many

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years ago, I first met Susie when I enrolled in

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the world's first Masters of Coaching Psychology at the University

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of Sydney and at the time as an aspiring life coach.

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I felt pretty out of place in a room full

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of managers and consultants and people in suits and ties

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learning how to be executive coaches. Then Susie Green walked

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in like a breath of fresh air. She was a

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PhD candidate at the time, and she taught the positive

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psychology subject and she talked about the value of life coaching.

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She's an energizer, bunny. Her enthusiasm for the topic was

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extremely contagious, and she really reaffirmed for me the value

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of coaching for individual wellbeing. Susie is now, all these

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years later, a world leader in the complementary fields of coaching,

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psychology and positive psychology. She helps organizations to create flourishing workplaces.

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She goes into schools to teach about positive education and

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for individuals like you. She has recently written her book,

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The Positivity Prescription, and she's also created a six week

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online course of the same name, which is kicking off

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really soon. So stay listening at the end of the

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episode for a special discount code if you're interested in

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Susie's Positivity Prescription For now, here's my chat with Susie. Susie,

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you are the CEO and founder of the Positivity Institute.

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Now look for the lay person who doesn't understand these

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terms positive psychology, clinical psychology, counseling, psychology. Can you just

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explain to us what exactly is positive psychology?

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Yeah?

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Absolutely, And I guess there are a few different definitions

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floating about, but the most simple and powerful one for

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me is it's the science. So it is a scientific study,

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a scientific field of optimal human functioning. So even more simplistic,

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I would say, just us at our best. So it's

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a study of us at our best as human beings

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here on the planet.

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And how does it fit then with other brands of psychology?

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So if we're talking about therapy and clinical psychology, can

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you just give us for people who aren't familiar, can

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you just give us the little snapshot of how this

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new field of positive, newish field of positive psychology came

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to be? Like where it fits?

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Absolutely?

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And I think as as you know my background, I

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started off as a clinical psychologist, which I still am

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a clinical psychologist. And as a clinical site we're taught

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and trained to help diagnose and treat clinical disorders such

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as depression and anxiety and other forms of psychological distress.

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And I know in my training it was very focused

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on symptom identification and symptom reduction, and even I guess

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in the field of counseling psychology, which is closely related. Generally,

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people arrive in your practice, and like you, I had

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a practice for many, many years working with individuals with problems.

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Very rarely did I have someone come along saying things

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are fantastick, but I want them to be even better,

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Whereas in I guess coaching, which we're going to talk

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about today too, and positive psychology, it is often about

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people wanting perhaps not certainly not in most cases being

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clinically depressed. Although I did want to say that there

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is a role for positive psychology in clinical psych and

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perhaps we can touch on that too, But generally positive

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psychos of people that just want to live better lives

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that might be languishing is the term that we use.

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So certainly not flourishing, but there's a recognition that they're

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not feeling their best self or they're not living their

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best lives.

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I love that you just mentioned the words languishing and flourishing.

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Can you explain that to us to my listeners? Yeah,

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what is languishing? What is flourishing?

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Yeah, so I think if we think about and most

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people these days, as you would know, and I think,

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if anything, COVID has really highlighted the mental health issues

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we have in our community. So we're not talking about

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a clinical diagnosis, particularly around a disorder like depression. So

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languishing could possibly be subclinical depression or on the way

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to developing a clinical depression, not feeling good and not

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functioning very well. There are a lot of people that

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are languishing, and a lot of people turn up to

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work every day and you've probably heard that term presenteeism

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rather than absentees, and so they're.

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There, but they're not really there.

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But yeah, certainly not necessarily as I said, within the

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clinical realm.

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So that's languishing.

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Then in between, there's a large category called the moderately

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mentally healthy, and that's not a bad place to be cast,

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but I certainly don't want to spend the remainder of

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my life just being moderately mentally healthy. And so again

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that's you know, feeling okay, but again not truly flourishing.

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And so the F word we call it in positive psychology,

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flourishing really is a combination of high levels of psychological

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well being and low levels of mental illness, but also

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high levels of engagement or you know, really playing to

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our strengths having a purposeful life as well. So that's

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a real combination there of experiencing a flourishing state. And

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I guess the question is is it normal to flourish

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all the time or possibly not? And even with someone

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like myself or yourself that's highly skilled in psychology and

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psychological skills, when the curve balls come, do we use them?

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I can tell you, Cass, I don't know about you,

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but I know, even through COVID, I really had to

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rely on my buddies and my learned friends that have

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those skills to help me, because it is very hard

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when you're in the eye of the storm to actually

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rely on the skills.

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Which is why we need as many people as.

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Possible in our community to be skilled so we can

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help each other when the going gets tough.

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What you just described then is I guess to recap.

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So in my clinical practice, and I'm sure in yours,

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people would come in with depression and anxiety, with a

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problem and we would work to get them back to

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functioning normally. You know that in the normal range absent

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of symptoms.

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That's it on the depression, anxiety and stress scale. And

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then our job was over and we waived by Pye.

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But we're going let's not wave by violence, where we

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can move to what we can really do.

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Yeah.

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So, therefore this positive psychologist for the people who might

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be functioning well but they want something more. They know

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that they want to fulfill their potential, live their best life,

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be more engaged. This is where you know, I feel

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really passionately about this as well. Obviously, Susie you said

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there is it's a real science now for those who

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who might be listening and going, well, this is all

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well and good, but you know there are people who've

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got real problems in the world or who dismiss it

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as you know, self help, happy happyology, that kind of thing.

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What does the science say about positive psychology.

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Well, we do have over twenty years of research now

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since the field formally launched, but even pre existing the field,

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there were aspects that weren't identified as positive psychology.

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I guess that we can still draw on.

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But the evidence is pretty compelling, particularly around the study

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of positive emotions. So cas like me, I'm sure in

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your lectures, particularly as a clinical site. You never had

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a lecture on joy or love or kindness. I know

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all of my lectures were on fear, anger, shame, disgust,

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and guilt are usually and on unhappy couples. I still

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remember having a lecture on unhappy couples and I used

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to say, is that because there.

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Aren't any happy couples?

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But you no, The research is pretty compelling around positive emotions.

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So we do now know that there are ten different

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types of positive emotions, whereas prior to this research, we

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used to clump them under happy, you know, and happiness,

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and most people understand what happiness is.

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In a broad way.

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But we now we're a lot more nuanced around understanding

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emotions like joy, for example, like elevation, which is the

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emotion you feel when you feel inspired when you watch

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people engage in doing good deeds, for example. So we

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know that when we are in when we experience positive

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emotions such as joy, as I mentioned, there's a whole

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range of physiological effects that happen. So our visual perception broadens.

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We actually look up and I've noticed all those look

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up signs on billboards lately, and so we know that

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if you induce people into a positive mood state, and

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there's various ways you can do that which we can

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talk about have done. Try eye tracking experiments, so our

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eyes actually scan the environment, and so when we're scanning

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the environment, we see more, we see more options and solutions,

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we're more attuned. Whereas as you know, when you're in

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that flight or free stay stage or experience, our thinking

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arrows down because we have to address right in this

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very moment what we need to do for our survival.

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So there's a whole range of benefits besides seeing more

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we make The research says we make better decisions, and

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they've done some great experiments with surgeons that have been

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given very complex cases to solve, and when you induce

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one group in or a positive mood state and the

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other into a negative, they make much more efficient and

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correct diagnoses. So there's again a whole range of these outcomes.

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Also around our immune functioning. Now I would say now

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more than ever, particularly with COVID and different strains that

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seem to be emerging, our immune system is really really important.

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And on the flip side, again, as you would be

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very familiar with, there's decades of research to show that

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when we're feeling experiencing stress over the longer term that

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it has a negative impact on our immune system, which

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makes us more liable to catch it a virus for example.

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So the researcher is showing when we're experiencing more positive emotions,

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it seems to buffer our immune system and we're less

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likely to catch the flu. And there's been a study

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to show that people that receive the flu vaccine versus

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people that were engaging in a loving kindness mindfulness meditation,

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the results were comparable. So you know, when we're looking

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at whether to get the flu shot or mindfulness, and

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then I'm not saying don't get the flu shot, but

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consider our mindfulness as a means to boost your immune system,

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which also particularly these loving kindness type meditations, gives us

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that positive emotional boost as well.

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That's the thing, isn't it, Like that's a real tangible benefit.

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I think so many people aren't necessarily aware they know

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what makes them feel good, and we'd all rather feel

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good than feel crappy, hence the crappy to have your podcast.

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But I don't think people necessarily realize those physiological changes

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that happen, like at a cellular level, we're actually changing.

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Absolutely is very and we've known that, I guess intuitively

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for a long time the connection, but the research, particularly

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coming out of psychooneuroimminology again is very compelling on that

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link between our emotional state and our physiological state and.

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Of course our behaviors.

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There's great research which i'd just like to briefly touch

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that shows that when you induce people into a positive

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mood state, they're more likely to make larger contributions to charities,

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to be more altruistic. Some wonderful research where they brought

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people together from very different diverse backgrounds and racially diverse backgrounds,

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and when you induce them into the positive mood state

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and they come together, they're more likely to see the

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similarities between us rather than the differences compared to when

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you do an induction into a negative mood state and

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bring these very different people together, they're more likely to

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see how we're different. And that has significant implications for

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our planet and our society.

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For sure, especially if you think about some of the

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politics of the last twelve months, those that divisiveness and

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those you know, polarity in people's views. So if we

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just all felt a bit more positive, we could bridge

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some of.

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Those games, so we're more open to perhaps taking a

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different perspective actually listening, being compassionate towards others. So you

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can see there's actually a whole ripple effect between I guess,

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the emotions and then the behaviors that come out of

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those emotional states as.

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Well, Susie.

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There's a million books on happiness out there at the moment.

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I've contributed a little to that. I've just got my

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third one coming out. But you know, I think we're

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all looking for the solution. I guess we're all looking

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for ways to feel better. We've all heard of mindfulness.

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Even if listeners don't really get it or they don't

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think they can get it, we all know by now

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that we should be writing down three things we're grateful

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for every day. They seem to be the kind of

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stock standard tips you know that you see on an

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Instagram quote. What other kinds of tools or strategies or

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interventions could have sort of full underneath this banner of

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positive psychology? Can you just sort of give us an overview?

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Sure? And you're write CASSID is a banner or an umbrella.

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We often referred to it as because often you hear

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people writing positive psychology offers fluff or non scientific, and

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it's very difficult to do that because, as you've said,

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there are many different areas of research, or we call

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them constructs in psychology, but topics basically that fall under

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that umbrella, the two that you've mentioned, and they're fantastic

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because I guess even less than ten years ago when

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I went to organizations to talk about mindfulness, there were

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barely one or two people in a group of thirty

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that would say that they'd even heard of it. Now

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it's really taken the world by storm, and there is

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compelling evidence to encourage us to think about regular mindfulness

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practice and regular gratitude practice. Although I do want to

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say the research suggests that if you're already a grateful person,

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you're not going to get an extra boost to your

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well being by practicing gratitude.

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You've got to be ungrateful to get the better.

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And I've seen it happen.

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I've seen people have major AHAs that they've been taking

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people for granted, or taking their life situation for granted,

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and by simply just acknowledging that through an appreciation or

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gratitude type exercise, they have a major aha, and.

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I feel a lot better about that.

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But you're right, I've mentioned positive emotions, so that is

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a big area of research that's continuing. Strengths is a

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really large component of positive psychology. So a large part

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is around what we call character strengths. So they're the

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types of strengths that make us good human beings if

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you like so strengths such as gratitude or kindness. There's leadership,

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love of learning, curiosity, and for those that are listening today,

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you can take a free assessment of your character strengths

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if you go Tovia Institute, which is a great exercise

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to do. The area that I'm really interested in right

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now and is getting gaining a lot of research attention,

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and really following on from the research on mindfulness is

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compassion and self and in particular self compassion. I'm sure

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you've spoken a lot about that podcast, cas So, and

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there's a wonderful book that's recently come out by some

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of my colleagues on the impact of awakening compassion in

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the workplace. There's a whole chapter on the impact on

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business outcomes, which I'm sure we will talk about today too,

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But I think at this point in time. You know,

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I know last year and you were probably the same.

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I wasn't really being called on to do talks on

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well being so much last year, but a lot on

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resilience and on mental toughness to get through the adversity.

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And so I just want to clarify that resilience, even

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though it did pre exist positive psychology and in many

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ways fell under the realm of clinical psychology, it does

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fall under the umbrella of positive psychology, and we know

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that positive emotions buffer us from a resilience perspective, and

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mental toughness is another area that I've been really interested

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in that I would say would fall falls under that umbrella.

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And for those that are on the listening to the

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podcast today that might appreciate some academic research, there's a

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fantastic paper that's only just come out in the last

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week in the Journal of Positive Psychology looking at the

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benefits of taking a positive psychology approach in a pandemic

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and very Happy. It's an open access journal, happy to

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send you the link CAUs that perhaps you make available

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to people as well, and it covers topics that I've

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already mentioned. It also talks about meaning, which again is

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a really big area of research that's gained a lot

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of traction in the last ten to fifteen years. And

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we know that people that have a sense of meaning

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in their workplace report greater levels of work satisfaction, and

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those that have a sense of meaning in them their

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life more generally report greater levels of well being as well.

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And we know a lot about now how we can

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go about developing greater meaning in our lives as well.

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So yeah, and I think that's been a bit of

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a debate too. I mean, I use the word happiness

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in the work that I do because, like you said,

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like everybody resonates, we all know what that is. But

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it does boil down to meaning, doesn't it. It's that

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balance of positive emotions, feeling good, but also having that

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sense of purpose.

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Absolutely.

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Again, just looking at some fairly recent research that looked

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at people that prioritize positivity, and I'm a big one

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for prioritizing positivity, which basically is creating a life timetable,

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if you like, and putting in the activities the people

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the places that you know.

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Are going to give you a positive mood boost.

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And I've done that for a long time and it's

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made a big difference in my life. But there was

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a follow up study that looked at prioritizing meaning and

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again looking at people that really thought about their values

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and the things that really did give the sense of

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meaning in their lives, and that seemed to give benefits

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over and above prioritizing positivity. So the meaning piece is

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really essential to a flourishing life.

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When you say strengths too, I just wanted to go

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back to that when you said people can go to

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the VIA Institute and take a strength survey. Now that

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strength survey, because there's a little bit of confusion about

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the definition of strengths I think too in positive psychology.

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I mean, because that is really like a values in

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action survey, right, as opposed to I'm really my strengths

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are that I'm good at maths or I'm a good

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problem solver. Can you explain that a bit for people,

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because that's always a bit of a confusing topic.

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Sure, and some of your listeners might be familiar with

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other strengths assessments like the Gallop Clifton Strengths Finder, which

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is used extensively in the workplace, or one out of

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the UK called Strengths Profile.

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The VIA are character strengths.

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And that's really important because it was developed by looking

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across cultures, across and philosophy through time, and they basically

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did a bit of a factor analysis and came up

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with six common virtues, So regardless of religion or culture,

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what were the common virtues and then what were the

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common character strengths. And so it's been a really powerful

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I guess approach, and there's so much research on the

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character strengths that's been done in workplaces and in school settings.

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But the other types of strengths are what we would

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call performance strengths. So I mentioned the Gallop Strengths Finder.

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There's thirty four themes in that there's sixty strengths in

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the other strengths profile. It may be that you don't

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necessarily want to develop all of those strengths, those performance

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strengths cass and you basically just play to your strengths

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once you get your reports and you know what your

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strengths are. The idea is that you play to your strengths.

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You watch that you don't overplay them, because that's really important.

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But when it comes to the character strengths, it's not

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like we just play to our top five and we

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forget about the rest because the full twenty four are

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important and in terms of being the best human beings

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that we can be, it really is a case of

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developing the full twenty four over our lifetime. Now I'm

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not there yet, cash to tell about you. I'm still

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working on the developer to go there. I've got a

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few more to go. So I think you can actually

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use them very complementary and in some of the work

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we do. We'd start off as an entry into strengths

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because the via is very simple and it resonates with people.

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But then if you're in a workplace or.

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An organization, the performance strengths can be really powerful, and

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they're fantastic if you're looking at career coaching or career

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changes as well.

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And speaking about strengths and values, I mean I talk

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about values with people a lot, and so many people,

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I think for you and I who have are been

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immersed in this sort of field for a long time,

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it's just standard kind of stuff to talk about values

401
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and what are your values, what your character strengths. But

402
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I've been really surprised at the number of people who

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never have thought about it, who have never really considered

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what their highest values are, like what is most important

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to them in life. So what's the point do you

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tell us, Susie, Like, what's the point of knowing what

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your values are? And where do people start with identifying

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what they are exactly?

409
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Well, basically, values are what matters most to you in

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your life. And I mean, as you know, there's more

411
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and more research coming out of acceptance and commitment therapy

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or training act it's called that is sort of supporting

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what we already knew. I think from a coaching perspective,

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we've used values a lot to help people determine what

415
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matters most in their lives and then to design a

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life that reflects what matters most in their lives.

417
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But there is more research coming.

418
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Out to show too that knowing what matters most allows

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us to actually sit with discomfort as we move towards

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living a more authentic life. And I guess most of

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us ideally want to live an authentic life, but sometimes

422
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that's difficult. Sometimes it's you know, not being the person

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that others want us to be, or it might mean

424
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sitting with some discomfort as we carve out or navigate

425
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a different life path for ourselves. So knowing why for me,

426
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the values are the why of the goals, or the

427
00:23:25.519 --> 00:23:29.240
why of our direction or our actions in life. And

428
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once you get really clear on what matters most, and

429
00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:35.400
we usually suggest trying to get down to say five,

430
00:23:35.519 --> 00:23:39.319
your top five core life values, they become, as one

431
00:23:39.319 --> 00:23:42.079
of my very early coaching clients said to me, the

432
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best decision making tools he had ever had, because when

433
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it came and I was coaching him on work life balance,

434
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I think at the time, and when it came down

435
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to whether I should stay at six o'clock for another hour,

436
00:23:54.640 --> 00:23:56.400
you know, and not get home till nine o'clock, not

437
00:23:56.480 --> 00:23:59.000
see my wife, not have dinner with my wife, not

438
00:23:59.079 --> 00:24:02.359
have see my kids, it was very easy to make

439
00:24:02.400 --> 00:24:04.920
a decision at six o'clock to go home. And we

440
00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:07.559
actually had his values up on the wall right in

441
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front of his face so that he could be reminded

442
00:24:10.240 --> 00:24:12.559
of what mattered most, so we could make the decision

443
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to log off and go home. So they really do

444
00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:19.400
become great decision making tools, particularly when you're conflicted. And

445
00:24:19.599 --> 00:24:21.720
although I have to say cas sometimes we can have

446
00:24:21.880 --> 00:24:25.799
values conflict. So for example, if you do want to

447
00:24:25.839 --> 00:24:28.640
achieve and we've got some career goals for ourselves, but

448
00:24:28.799 --> 00:24:31.880
we also value our family, and so we're sort of

449
00:24:31.920 --> 00:24:35.799
balancing that time with family and achievement. But often we'll

450
00:24:35.839 --> 00:24:39.920
see too that the achievement often underpinning that is because

451
00:24:39.960 --> 00:24:42.200
I want to be successful for my family.

452
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So it's a really good discussion point.

453
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And like you said, I've had many clients that have

454
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said a week, Susie, I can't do this.

455
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In a week. I need a year. I need a whole.

456
00:24:51.759 --> 00:24:54.839
Year to really take some time out and reflect on

457
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what matters most. So I would suggest, and I do recommend,

458
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that give it some time, give yourself a year, you know,

459
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to really think about the things that matter most. There

460
00:25:05.599 --> 00:25:08.599
are lots of values lists. You can just google the

461
00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:10.240
available freely.

462
00:25:10.799 --> 00:25:11.480
We have a list.

463
00:25:11.519 --> 00:25:13.480
I'm sure you have a list, and you can just

464
00:25:13.519 --> 00:25:16.000
start off by asterisking. I know what I did, and

465
00:25:16.079 --> 00:25:19.160
I asterismally everything, and then I just put it aside

466
00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:21.240
and came back to it, put it aside and came

467
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back to it until I had said, and I reiterate

468
00:25:25.240 --> 00:25:29.720
here the word felt, because you actually get a physical

469
00:25:29.759 --> 00:25:32.319
feeling when you get down to the ones that feel.

470
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Authentic for you, you will feel them to be right.

471
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So for me, that's a great indicator of whether you've

472
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got the right values.

473
00:25:40.119 --> 00:25:43.839
Yeah, that's really good advice, and I concur I think

474
00:25:43.960 --> 00:25:47.319
everybody should just be at least spending some time reflecting on,

475
00:25:47.480 --> 00:25:50.799
even if you don't know what they are, reflecting on

476
00:25:50.920 --> 00:25:54.640
what is most important in life as a starting point

477
00:25:54.640 --> 00:25:58.680
and as an ongoing work in progress, really right to

478
00:25:58.720 --> 00:25:59.920
continue to reflect on.

479
00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:03.079
Yeah, and look, I did when I was in my

480
00:26:03.160 --> 00:26:04.319
early thirties, and.

481
00:26:05.759 --> 00:26:07.279
You know, I've had a bit of a birthday in

482
00:26:07.279 --> 00:26:07.680
a few.

483
00:26:07.599 --> 00:26:10.839
Years ago, and you know, twenty years on I revisited

484
00:26:10.839 --> 00:26:15.480
those values. They haven't really changed, but the words have,

485
00:26:15.640 --> 00:26:18.319
so I think the words have become a little more sophisticated,

486
00:26:18.359 --> 00:26:20.920
I like to think cass than what they were when

487
00:26:20.920 --> 00:26:21.680
I was thirty.

488
00:26:21.960 --> 00:26:24.359
But they're basically the same values, you know.

489
00:26:24.680 --> 00:26:27.839
So, and in fact, the research that I've read scenes

490
00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:32.319
to show that they don't change significantly over our lifetime

491
00:26:32.359 --> 00:26:34.799
once you get real clarity about what matters most.

492
00:26:38.680 --> 00:26:41.960
I hope that you're enjoying this conversation and realizing the

493
00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:44.920
benefits of positivity in your own life. If you are

494
00:26:45.039 --> 00:26:47.759
enjoying the show, please be sure to like and subscribe

495
00:26:47.759 --> 00:26:50.119
so that you get notified when you epps drop and

496
00:26:50.200 --> 00:26:52.640
head on over to Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen

497
00:26:52.680 --> 00:27:01.440
and leave us a rating and review Suse you want

498
00:27:01.440 --> 00:27:03.359
to pick up on something you said too about the

499
00:27:04.519 --> 00:27:07.480
I'm familiar with act as well, obviously acceptance a commitment,

500
00:27:07.680 --> 00:27:12.279
therapy or training and living a life that is authentic

501
00:27:12.319 --> 00:27:15.359
and in line with our values and tolerating discomfort. Now,

502
00:27:15.400 --> 00:27:17.160
I wanted to pick up on that because I think

503
00:27:17.200 --> 00:27:19.960
that a lot of people think that this positivity and

504
00:27:20.039 --> 00:27:22.960
this happiness stuff, and I've been accused of this like that.

505
00:27:23.119 --> 00:27:26.119
I've been told, well not told. Somebody posted on my

506
00:27:26.119 --> 00:27:30.000
Facebook once that it was irresponsible of me to be

507
00:27:30.079 --> 00:27:33.599
promoting this idea of happiness because it's completely unrealistic for

508
00:27:33.680 --> 00:27:36.039
people to be happy all the time, and therefore was

509
00:27:36.039 --> 00:27:38.839
irresponsible for somebody in mental health to be suggesting that

510
00:27:38.839 --> 00:27:42.640
that was a goal for people, which clearly anybody who

511
00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:45.000
knows my work knows that that's not my goal. Can

512
00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:48.519
you just counter that in terms of we're not about

513
00:27:48.519 --> 00:27:50.440
being happy all the time? Are we? No?

514
00:27:50.880 --> 00:27:52.880
You and I, as clin sites know they'll lock you

515
00:27:53.000 --> 00:27:53.920
up as you are are.

516
00:27:53.960 --> 00:28:01.240
Usually say they will seriously lock you up. It's not normal, right,

517
00:28:01.240 --> 00:28:03.720
It's just not normal to walk around with that big yellow,

518
00:28:03.720 --> 00:28:09.839
happy Svalley face all day. But yeah, I think, look,

519
00:28:10.039 --> 00:28:13.119
I'm not doctor happy, right, And in fact, some of

520
00:28:13.119 --> 00:28:16.079
my colleagues call me doctor Cantankeres.

521
00:28:15.400 --> 00:28:16.920
Caspar so.

522
00:28:20.200 --> 00:28:21.119
Yeah it larious.

523
00:28:21.559 --> 00:28:24.079
Yeah, And look again, I think the benefit of coming

524
00:28:24.079 --> 00:28:28.319
from a clinical background is that we know that the

525
00:28:28.440 --> 00:28:32.160
full range of human emotions are absolutely important for us.

526
00:28:32.200 --> 00:28:34.359
They're normal and they're appropriate.

527
00:28:35.279 --> 00:28:37.880
The only issue, as you and I know, becomes when

528
00:28:37.920 --> 00:28:40.759
they go to their clinical extreme. So for example, when

529
00:28:40.799 --> 00:28:45.839
sadness becomes clinical depression, when anger becomes rage, when anxiety

530
00:28:45.880 --> 00:28:49.839
becomes well, you know, fear becomes an anxiety disorder, and

531
00:28:49.880 --> 00:28:52.599
even as I mentioned before, when happiness becomes mania, you know,

532
00:28:52.799 --> 00:28:55.799
at that end, and I get a bit cranky, honestly

533
00:28:55.839 --> 00:28:58.680
when I hear comments like that, and I'm actually writing

534
00:28:58.680 --> 00:29:01.200
a blog I'm going to post on LinkedIn about this,

535
00:29:01.880 --> 00:29:05.559
about this concept of toxic positivity, and I understand where

536
00:29:05.559 --> 00:29:08.480
it's coming from, and it's exactly we agree.

537
00:29:08.559 --> 00:29:10.400
We don't want people to be.

538
00:29:10.759 --> 00:29:17.039
Forcing you know, positivity and absolutely repressing or suppressing difficult emotions,

539
00:29:17.079 --> 00:29:21.039
because emotions are information, They're there for a reason, and

540
00:29:21.079 --> 00:29:23.599
it's really important to pay attention to them. And if

541
00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:26.039
we just push them down, well, number one, we know

542
00:29:26.079 --> 00:29:28.039
they're going to find a way back up because the

543
00:29:28.079 --> 00:29:30.599
more you do that, they do tend to say hey,

544
00:29:30.599 --> 00:29:33.640
Susie and try and get your attention a little bit more.

545
00:29:34.119 --> 00:29:38.759
But I hate to see this dichotomous approach that. You know,

546
00:29:39.559 --> 00:29:42.400
if you're talking to people about being happy or positive,

547
00:29:42.559 --> 00:29:45.680
that means that you're not saying it's okay to experience

548
00:29:46.160 --> 00:29:49.839
nets the so called negative emotions. And I'm not saying

549
00:29:49.839 --> 00:29:52.680
that you're not saying that at all, but what we

550
00:29:52.720 --> 00:29:56.640
are saying is, yes, it's really important to be able

551
00:29:56.680 --> 00:30:01.200
to sit with uncomfortable emotions because you know, they are information,

552
00:30:01.279 --> 00:30:03.720
as we said, and sometimes we need to do that

553
00:30:03.880 --> 00:30:08.440
to move in values congruent direction as we were saying before.

554
00:30:09.240 --> 00:30:12.400
And it's normal like when COVID first hit, I know myself,

555
00:30:12.400 --> 00:30:14.680
i'd sit down and turn that news on it I'd

556
00:30:14.680 --> 00:30:16.960
fear to feel a fear response, and then I'm thinking

557
00:30:17.039 --> 00:30:19.000
about my business and I don't.

558
00:30:18.839 --> 00:30:21.359
Know how are we going to survive? So all of

559
00:30:21.400 --> 00:30:22.599
that started to happen.

560
00:30:23.039 --> 00:30:25.960
But I guess I had the skills at the time

561
00:30:26.119 --> 00:30:28.720
to be able to be aware of that, to notice

562
00:30:28.759 --> 00:30:32.720
those emotions, to be curious about those emotions, but then

563
00:30:32.839 --> 00:30:35.519
to decide not that I'm going to push them aside

564
00:30:35.599 --> 00:30:39.759
or disregard them. But for the moment, right now, I

565
00:30:39.799 --> 00:30:43.279
had family coming over. I wanted to switch gears. I

566
00:30:43.319 --> 00:30:45.759
wanted to cook a beautiful meal for my family. I

567
00:30:45.880 --> 00:30:48.400
put on a piece of mood boosting music, you know,

568
00:30:48.759 --> 00:30:51.200
I put a candle on and I started to bring

569
00:30:51.240 --> 00:30:54.319
my mindful attention to the activity at hand, and I

570
00:30:54.440 --> 00:30:57.359
felt my mood started to lift. So I don't think

571
00:30:57.400 --> 00:31:01.480
it has to be an either or situation. But again

572
00:31:02.079 --> 00:31:06.559
we certainly agree it's not about forcing you know, positivity

573
00:31:06.640 --> 00:31:09.839
or happiness or just thinking positive because as one of

574
00:31:09.839 --> 00:31:14.200
my colleagues as thinking positive thinking without positive action will

575
00:31:14.200 --> 00:31:15.920
give you positively nothing, you.

576
00:31:15.960 --> 00:31:19.519
Know, so we all know that you need the action,

577
00:31:19.759 --> 00:31:19.920
you know.

578
00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:23.559
It's not just the secret of thinking that you you know, look,

579
00:31:23.640 --> 00:31:26.519
I usually say, look like element persons, and then tomorrow

580
00:31:26.519 --> 00:31:28.880
you wake up and you have we need. There's nothing

581
00:31:28.920 --> 00:31:32.640
wrong with having visions, and we know from coaching in particular,

582
00:31:32.680 --> 00:31:35.720
that's really powerful to have an inspiring vision or a

583
00:31:35.799 --> 00:31:39.319
vision board, but we need the accompanying action to.

584
00:31:39.279 --> 00:31:42.000
Be able to move towards the creation of that vision.

585
00:31:42.720 --> 00:31:46.440
And Susie, you've mentioned coaching a few times, and I

586
00:31:46.480 --> 00:31:48.799
know that you've done a lot of work, not just individually,

587
00:31:48.839 --> 00:31:53.440
but going into organizations and doing workplace coaching, executive coaching.

588
00:31:54.119 --> 00:31:58.599
I'm curious to know you know your work is in positivity.

589
00:31:59.720 --> 00:32:05.519
What is the benefit to organizations of fostering more positive workplaces?

590
00:32:05.640 --> 00:32:07.720
And I guess also part B to that question is

591
00:32:08.440 --> 00:32:12.079
our organizations on board with that? Do they actually realize

592
00:32:12.119 --> 00:32:16.240
now the bottom line benefit of cultivating a more positive

593
00:32:16.319 --> 00:32:17.319
environment at work.

594
00:32:17.960 --> 00:32:20.279
I think we've We've got a bit of a way

595
00:32:20.279 --> 00:32:24.640
to go. I think yeah, So I think definitely some

596
00:32:24.799 --> 00:32:29.200
are particularly some of the innovative ones that perhaps like Google,

597
00:32:29.279 --> 00:32:31.799
and I'm aware that Zero have done some work with

598
00:32:31.880 --> 00:32:35.319
post psyche as well. We're being fortunate to work with

599
00:32:35.359 --> 00:32:40.160
the Global consultancy ACCENTUA here in Australia and the leader

600
00:32:40.200 --> 00:32:42.519
at the time when we were brought in actually had

601
00:32:42.880 --> 00:32:46.039
or has a master's in positive psychology. So a bit

602
00:32:46.039 --> 00:32:48.359
of a dream client for us to work with a

603
00:32:48.480 --> 00:32:52.119
senior leader that actually understands the science. So I didn't

604
00:32:52.119 --> 00:32:54.319
really have to go in and give the business case.

605
00:32:54.559 --> 00:32:58.119
He knew the business case, he'd studied that, hence why

606
00:32:58.160 --> 00:33:00.640
he brought us in to work with his leader on

607
00:33:00.839 --> 00:33:05.640
both understanding the science of positive psychology, positive organizational scholarship,

608
00:33:05.640 --> 00:33:08.279
which is a study of post psych in workplace settings,

609
00:33:08.440 --> 00:33:11.880
and also coaching as a means to really apply that

610
00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:15.279
science as well. So I think, yeah, my part of

611
00:33:15.319 --> 00:33:19.680
my I guess mission is to educate workplaces around the

612
00:33:19.720 --> 00:33:23.839
real benefits of being proactive teaching not just leaders, but

613
00:33:24.119 --> 00:33:28.519
all people in a workplace the science of positive psychology.

614
00:33:28.559 --> 00:33:31.079
That's what I'd love to see happen as we go forward.

615
00:33:31.440 --> 00:33:34.799
And coaching really is a means, as I said before,

616
00:33:34.839 --> 00:33:39.079
to apply the science because we see lots of organizations

617
00:33:39.119 --> 00:33:44.240
investing which is often not cheap in training days. We

618
00:33:44.319 --> 00:33:49.240
know from multiple studies. Now the research varies, but you know,

619
00:33:49.519 --> 00:33:53.119
around less than ten percent people will retain from a

620
00:33:53.160 --> 00:33:56.400
training day. So unless we have some sort of mechanism

621
00:33:56.759 --> 00:34:00.119
to transfer that knowledge and put it into action, it's

622
00:34:00.160 --> 00:34:03.000
a complete waste of money and people's time. So we

623
00:34:03.359 --> 00:34:06.400
have been strong proponent of the use of coaching. Again,

624
00:34:06.480 --> 00:34:09.840
there's studies to show the coaching enhances transfer of training,

625
00:34:10.880 --> 00:34:12.800
and that doesn't necessarily.

626
00:34:12.320 --> 00:34:13.760
Have to be professional coaching.

627
00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:16.920
I mean, we come in as professional coaches like yourself

628
00:34:16.960 --> 00:34:21.480
hold masters in coaching psychology. But it could also be

629
00:34:21.519 --> 00:34:23.960
as part of the training day where you set up

630
00:34:24.079 --> 00:34:28.400
some peer coaching arrangements with people and teach them some

631
00:34:28.480 --> 00:34:32.320
basic coaching skills as well, and that's not too difficult

632
00:34:32.400 --> 00:34:34.960
to do really, And in fact, again I mentioned there

633
00:34:35.039 --> 00:34:37.519
was a recent paper in the Journal of Positive psych

634
00:34:37.719 --> 00:34:41.039
another recent paper in the Journal of Positive Psyche comparing

635
00:34:41.119 --> 00:34:45.039
a positive psych intervention, which is basically learning all about

636
00:34:45.079 --> 00:34:49.559
these different topics versus a coaching psych intervention, and the

637
00:34:50.440 --> 00:34:54.000
positive psyche did lead to increases in happiness and well

638
00:34:54.039 --> 00:34:56.599
being if you like. But the coaching led to a

639
00:34:56.639 --> 00:35:01.400
whole range of benefits beyond that. It looked at insight,

640
00:35:02.159 --> 00:35:05.679
how much insight we learn about ourselves as as human beings.

641
00:35:05.880 --> 00:35:08.920
It had an impact on resilience, for example, and it

642
00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:12.519
had an impact on a broader conception of well being

643
00:35:12.639 --> 00:35:16.639
psychological well being, so things like meaning and purpose and

644
00:35:16.719 --> 00:35:20.599
positive relationships with others. So that's for me, that paper

645
00:35:20.679 --> 00:35:22.280
is going to be a bit of a game changer

646
00:35:22.360 --> 00:35:26.400
because it's I guess, finally showing that coaching is a

647
00:35:26.480 --> 00:35:32.960
really important, I guess supplement to the science of positive psychology.

648
00:35:33.119 --> 00:35:37.039
Because that's where you started, right. You did the world

649
00:35:37.119 --> 00:35:42.199
first study on coaching as a positive psychology intervention. Have

650
00:35:42.320 --> 00:35:43.039
I got that correct?

651
00:35:43.079 --> 00:35:44.280
A long time ago?

652
00:35:45.440 --> 00:35:49.960
Yesh, you were lecturing me, good master student a very

653
00:35:50.039 --> 00:35:50.880
long time ago.

654
00:35:51.039 --> 00:35:51.719
Yes, it was.

655
00:35:51.800 --> 00:35:54.360
And look you and I were the converted and we

656
00:35:54.440 --> 00:35:58.760
know it works for time. Unfortunately, coaching psychology, which started

657
00:35:58.880 --> 00:36:01.480
in Sydney, Australia, it's something I'm very proud of. I

658
00:36:01.519 --> 00:36:04.039
know you are too. That it's a home grown field.

659
00:36:05.440 --> 00:36:08.239
It's made some headway in the UK and Europe. It

660
00:36:08.280 --> 00:36:10.760
hasn't really made it into the US, which is where

661
00:36:11.159 --> 00:36:15.360
positive psychology really has a large foothold, and there are

662
00:36:15.360 --> 00:36:18.679
some really big names within positive side.

663
00:36:19.039 --> 00:36:21.239
But I really do believe.

664
00:36:20.880 --> 00:36:23.920
That we're finally going to start to see greater acknowledgment

665
00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:26.840
of the role of coaching within positive psychology as we

666
00:36:26.880 --> 00:36:27.519
move forward.

667
00:36:28.440 --> 00:36:32.239
And Suzi, just going back to that organizations, what are

668
00:36:32.280 --> 00:36:34.800
the bottom line benefits, what is the business case?

669
00:36:34.840 --> 00:36:37.079
So look, to be honest, we do need more research.

670
00:36:37.159 --> 00:36:40.280
Casp There's some one fairly powerful study that was done

671
00:36:40.519 --> 00:36:45.559
by Professor Kim Cameron that showed that there were objective

672
00:36:45.679 --> 00:36:50.280
measures of organizational effectiveness after they looked at what is

673
00:36:50.320 --> 00:36:54.920
referred to as positive workplace practices. So in organizations that

674
00:36:55.039 --> 00:37:00.000
had a significant amount of these pwps, positive workplace practice,

675
00:37:00.559 --> 00:37:04.480
so they were things like expressions of gratitude and appreciation,

676
00:37:04.920 --> 00:37:10.639
regular expressions within team meetings and across the organization, forgiving culture,

677
00:37:11.000 --> 00:37:14.440
so rather than a blame and shame culture, people knew

678
00:37:14.440 --> 00:37:16.880
that they could be creative, that there was a level

679
00:37:16.920 --> 00:37:19.400
of psychological safety, which a lot of people are talking

680
00:37:19.480 --> 00:37:22.119
about now, and that people would be forgiven if they

681
00:37:22.199 --> 00:37:26.599
made mistakes. And the other big positive workplace practice was

682
00:37:27.079 --> 00:37:30.960
practices of compassion, so when people were going through hard times,

683
00:37:31.079 --> 00:37:34.360
not just the leaders, but the people around them really

684
00:37:34.400 --> 00:37:36.960
came around and supported people when they were going through

685
00:37:37.000 --> 00:37:40.320
tough times. And organizations that had a high degree of

686
00:37:40.360 --> 00:37:46.000
those practices had they looked at objective not just subjective measures.

687
00:37:46.000 --> 00:37:49.320
So they looked at financial performance, they looked at three

688
00:37:49.400 --> 00:37:53.000
sixty degree feedback, and they looked at customer satisfaction ratings,

689
00:37:53.440 --> 00:37:57.480
and again these organizations had significantly.

690
00:37:56.840 --> 00:37:59.079
Higher levels the more of these.

691
00:37:58.960 --> 00:38:02.480
Positive workplices that were happening within there.

692
00:38:03.159 --> 00:38:05.960
Wow, I just wanted to touch on that because I

693
00:38:05.960 --> 00:38:08.599
know listeners of the podcast are all individuals, and we're

694
00:38:08.639 --> 00:38:11.320
all thinking about how do I make these improvements in

695
00:38:11.320 --> 00:38:13.079
my own life, Like what's in this for me? But

696
00:38:13.159 --> 00:38:16.039
I think it's really we all go to work, and

697
00:38:17.119 --> 00:38:19.039
I think we need to get away from this idea

698
00:38:19.079 --> 00:38:22.960
that there's me at home with my compassion and my gratitude,

699
00:38:22.960 --> 00:38:25.360
and then there's this different me who goes into this

700
00:38:25.599 --> 00:38:29.320
workplace and is just focused on outcomes. We really need

701
00:38:29.360 --> 00:38:34.480
to start blending those and seeing the value of those

702
00:38:34.880 --> 00:38:38.760
traits and characteristics and interventions and tools in that context,

703
00:38:38.800 --> 00:38:39.679
I think, yeah, And look.

704
00:38:39.599 --> 00:38:41.320
I'm seeing a lot of grassroots.

705
00:38:41.880 --> 00:38:45.199
You know, I'm still surprised when I get phone calls

706
00:38:45.239 --> 00:38:47.679
and they perhaps want me or someone from the team

707
00:38:47.679 --> 00:38:50.440
to come in and give them I guess the scientific

708
00:38:50.480 --> 00:38:52.880
case for it. But they've already been bringing in some

709
00:38:52.920 --> 00:38:55.000
of the books that have made it out into the

710
00:38:55.039 --> 00:38:57.960
self help and again from some of the top scientists

711
00:38:58.000 --> 00:39:01.840
in the field, like Sony Lubermirsky, Professor Barbara Frederickson. But

712
00:39:01.880 --> 00:39:05.119
they've already started book clubs. You know, they've left books

713
00:39:05.159 --> 00:39:08.239
in perhaps your book as well, becas in the staff room,

714
00:39:08.280 --> 00:39:12.000
and people that they would never have expected to be interested,

715
00:39:12.400 --> 00:39:15.039
have picked these books up and have started to come

716
00:39:15.079 --> 00:39:18.440
along to some of these positive psychology group meetings. So

717
00:39:18.719 --> 00:39:22.639
I'm you know, it's inspiring to see that there is

718
00:39:22.800 --> 00:39:27.119
interest that's growing in the workplace. And again it may

719
00:39:27.159 --> 00:39:30.360
not have to involve a large cost by bringing in

720
00:39:30.679 --> 00:39:33.880
a consultant. They might just use a consultant, you know,

721
00:39:33.960 --> 00:39:39.239
quite strategically, but they've got enough grassroots in interest and

722
00:39:39.440 --> 00:39:43.119
energy to keep it going and keep it fresh because

723
00:39:43.360 --> 00:39:46.159
it is something when we have worked with a number

724
00:39:46.199 --> 00:39:49.079
of organizations. There's lots of initiatives that you can do

725
00:39:49.159 --> 00:39:51.800
and you know we can certainly advise on that, but

726
00:39:52.559 --> 00:39:54.320
you've got to keep it fresh all the time.

727
00:39:54.400 --> 00:39:56.159
So you want new people coming in.

728
00:39:56.199 --> 00:39:59.119
If you've got a group of well being champions, you

729
00:39:59.199 --> 00:40:02.559
want new i is all the time, new little videos,

730
00:40:02.599 --> 00:40:05.960
mood boosting videos, new research being brought in. It's not

731
00:40:06.039 --> 00:40:08.840
something well, it's very similar to you don't just go

732
00:40:08.920 --> 00:40:11.039
to the gym once and think that you're going to

733
00:40:11.079 --> 00:40:13.400
be an elite athlete. You've got to keep it up,

734
00:40:13.480 --> 00:40:15.159
you know, and you've got to keep it fresh and

735
00:40:15.239 --> 00:40:16.760
doing new things all the time.

736
00:40:17.400 --> 00:40:19.239
There's a lot of talk at the moment about the

737
00:40:19.280 --> 00:40:24.559
mental health ramifications, you know, and the ongoing potential mental

738
00:40:24.559 --> 00:40:27.960
health impact of what we've all been through with COVID,

739
00:40:28.400 --> 00:40:31.159
and there's real focus on there's going to be a

740
00:40:31.159 --> 00:40:36.920
great need for psychological services and support for people. What

741
00:40:37.039 --> 00:40:39.440
is the role and you've probably summed this up already,

742
00:40:39.440 --> 00:40:42.199
but really what role does positive psychology have to play

743
00:40:42.239 --> 00:40:46.360
in this in terms of just that resilience boosting and

744
00:40:46.719 --> 00:40:51.559
helping people to cope with really challenging experiences in life.

745
00:40:51.840 --> 00:40:52.159
Yeah.

746
00:40:52.199 --> 00:40:55.880
Absolutely, As I said before, resilience does, even though it

747
00:40:55.960 --> 00:40:59.320
was pre existing, it does fall under the umbrella of

748
00:40:59.360 --> 00:41:03.480
positive stuff coology and in fact research looking at psychological

749
00:41:03.519 --> 00:41:06.639
well being. I mean, they still quite a bit of

750
00:41:06.719 --> 00:41:10.480
debate about what are the key or essential components for

751
00:41:11.400 --> 00:41:14.440
somebody that is experiencing high levels of psychological being, But

752
00:41:14.920 --> 00:41:18.760
most of the scholars agree that it's underpinned by resilience.

753
00:41:19.119 --> 00:41:22.400
So resilience and most of us have a very general

754
00:41:22.480 --> 00:41:26.800
understanding that it means our capacity to bounce back from adversity.

755
00:41:27.280 --> 00:41:30.519
And even building on that research, there's an area around

756
00:41:31.159 --> 00:41:35.519
post traumatic growth, which again needs some more research, but

757
00:41:35.599 --> 00:41:38.480
it's a really interesting area looking at when people go

758
00:41:38.599 --> 00:41:42.639
through significant adversity and rather than develop a mental illness,

759
00:41:42.639 --> 00:41:47.360
they actually grow stronger and better, faster, stronger, better, if

760
00:41:47.400 --> 00:41:50.519
you like, through that experience. So that is ongoing research.

761
00:41:51.199 --> 00:41:53.960
The paper I mentioned about positive psych and a pandemic

762
00:41:54.239 --> 00:41:58.320
also talks about coping and gain. That's drawing on probably

763
00:41:58.400 --> 00:42:02.000
more broader psychological res search as well. But there are

764
00:42:02.599 --> 00:42:06.360
lots of, I guess, components of positive sites that can

765
00:42:06.440 --> 00:42:10.639
certainly help when things are uncertain. Mindfulness, again, even though

766
00:42:10.679 --> 00:42:14.480
it sits under its own scientific field, we have definitely

767
00:42:14.519 --> 00:42:17.760
brought it in under the umbrella a positive psychology, so

768
00:42:18.639 --> 00:42:21.039
right now, and I'm sure and I know you are

769
00:42:21.400 --> 00:42:23.599
a big supporter of this too. For me, it would

770
00:42:23.639 --> 00:42:27.440
be a non negotiable having some form of mindfulness meditation

771
00:42:27.559 --> 00:42:30.559
and there are various forms as well, and of course

772
00:42:30.599 --> 00:42:34.840
I mentioned the loving kindness type meditation and of.

773
00:42:34.800 --> 00:42:36.880
Course yeah, it's a great one.

774
00:42:36.920 --> 00:42:41.320
It's a beautiful one, is loving kindness, Yes, absolutely beautiful.

775
00:42:41.519 --> 00:42:44.119
So yes, I guess the simple answer is that there's

776
00:42:44.239 --> 00:42:47.679
a lot that we can draw on that in times

777
00:42:47.760 --> 00:42:51.519
when times are tough from a positive site perspective. Just quickly,

778
00:42:51.519 --> 00:42:55.440
one study that showed that when they did induce people

779
00:42:55.440 --> 00:42:59.079
into a stressful situation, and then they asked them.

780
00:42:59.280 --> 00:43:01.280
They had them I think in three or four groups.

781
00:43:01.559 --> 00:43:05.800
One group were put into this stressful situation and then

782
00:43:05.960 --> 00:43:09.239
they were asked to watch a funny video, perhaps a

783
00:43:09.320 --> 00:43:12.840
Seinfeld video or something. Another group were asked to watch

784
00:43:12.920 --> 00:43:15.800
a sad movie, and another group we were asked to

785
00:43:15.800 --> 00:43:19.000
watch I think a neutral video. And then they looked

786
00:43:19.039 --> 00:43:21.599
at cardiovascular reactivity.

787
00:43:21.719 --> 00:43:22.840
So when you're stressed, your.

788
00:43:22.760 --> 00:43:26.000
Heart rate goes up and all the other physiological physiological

789
00:43:26.039 --> 00:43:29.840
responses go up. People that watched a Seinfeld video, their

790
00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:35.079
return to baseline was significantly faster than people that just

791
00:43:35.119 --> 00:43:37.639
watched it, that watched a sad movie or watched a

792
00:43:37.679 --> 00:43:41.000
neutral type movie. And I think as we intuitively know

793
00:43:41.159 --> 00:43:44.000
that when we're stressed that we take ourselves off for

794
00:43:44.000 --> 00:43:45.440
a walk, or we pick up the phone to a

795
00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:47.159
friend that we know is going to give us a boost,

796
00:43:47.239 --> 00:43:49.840
or we do put on a Seinfeld episode. But it

797
00:43:49.960 --> 00:43:53.119
is I mean, again, a lot of this is intuitive,

798
00:43:53.239 --> 00:43:55.480
but the research supports it.

799
00:43:55.559 --> 00:43:58.480
Now it's nice to have that science to back it up.

800
00:43:58.800 --> 00:44:00.920
Absolutely, it's not just fluff anymore.

801
00:44:02.159 --> 00:44:05.079
Yeah, And we're not just distracting ourselves, it's actually having

802
00:44:05.119 --> 00:44:07.719
a positive impact. It's actually really making a difference to

803
00:44:07.719 --> 00:44:09.320
our physiology and it.

804
00:44:09.360 --> 00:44:11.840
Is been starting to be taught at school as well,

805
00:44:11.880 --> 00:44:14.119
which is my dream for the future that we all

806
00:44:14.199 --> 00:44:15.440
learn this at school.

807
00:44:15.719 --> 00:44:18.760
And mine as well. And I know that you have

808
00:44:18.880 --> 00:44:22.639
been a leader in that area as well, So do

809
00:44:22.679 --> 00:44:24.519
you want to talk a little bit about that, about

810
00:44:24.760 --> 00:44:28.360
how we can be incorporating this and teaching it to

811
00:44:28.400 --> 00:44:29.320
our kids in schools.

812
00:44:29.719 --> 00:44:33.400
Absolutely, it's my most meaningful work, even though the majority

813
00:44:33.440 --> 00:44:35.639
of our work is in the workplace and it's a

814
00:44:36.079 --> 00:44:38.920
much smaller component is the work that we do in schools,

815
00:44:39.880 --> 00:44:42.119
but it is the most meaningful work. So we've been

816
00:44:42.119 --> 00:44:45.320
involved in this field of positive education for over ten

817
00:44:45.440 --> 00:44:49.679
years now. It did launch here in Australia, originally at

818
00:44:49.719 --> 00:44:54.840
Geelong Grammar School, but now it is growing day by day,

819
00:44:55.440 --> 00:45:00.119
not just in Australia but globally. COVID has given it

820
00:45:00.159 --> 00:45:02.400
has slowed it down a little bit as schools of

821
00:45:02.559 --> 00:45:05.679
really trying to come to terms with virtual teaching and

822
00:45:05.800 --> 00:45:09.519
homeschooling and all of those challenges there. But I think

823
00:45:09.559 --> 00:45:12.519
there's no turning back now CAAs I think the schools

824
00:45:12.519 --> 00:45:15.480
that have really been doing this a long time lunch

825
00:45:15.480 --> 00:45:17.920
to long like Perth College, who we've worked with for

826
00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:21.280
over five years, they will tell you, the teachers will

827
00:45:21.320 --> 00:45:25.519
actually have told me that if you have a child

828
00:45:25.599 --> 00:45:28.760
coming in, say in year seven, and they've come from

829
00:45:28.800 --> 00:45:31.519
a school that hasn't done any form of not just

830
00:45:31.599 --> 00:45:35.039
positive side, but social and emotional learning, which again for me,

831
00:45:35.159 --> 00:45:37.920
falls under the umbrella of positive site, but it does

832
00:45:37.960 --> 00:45:40.559
sit as its own separate field. If you have a

833
00:45:40.639 --> 00:45:42.559
child that has never had any of that and they

834
00:45:42.599 --> 00:45:45.239
come into a school in year seven, compared to a

835
00:45:45.320 --> 00:45:48.519
child that has been at the school and has learned

836
00:45:48.559 --> 00:45:53.480
about positive site and mindset skills and emotional skills, it

837
00:45:53.559 --> 00:45:58.599
is visibly obvious to the teachers, they say, you can

838
00:45:58.639 --> 00:46:03.199
tell in terms of how the student handles themselves, their

839
00:46:03.239 --> 00:46:08.039
own emotions, and also how they manage their social interactions

840
00:46:07.880 --> 00:46:13.360
as well. It's really obvious. So it will be the future, Cats,

841
00:46:13.760 --> 00:46:18.039
it will be the future. We'll have this in the future.

842
00:46:18.440 --> 00:46:21.280
And thinking about the long term effects of that as

843
00:46:21.320 --> 00:46:26.400
all of those children go on to become positive, emotionally healthy,

844
00:46:26.440 --> 00:46:32.440
well adjusted, resilient adults out into the workforce. It's amazing. Suzie.

845
00:46:32.440 --> 00:46:34.559
I've just got one last question and I want to.

846
00:46:34.840 --> 00:46:36.320
I know, I want to tell people how they can

847
00:46:36.320 --> 00:46:40.039
find out more about your positive psych programs that you offer.

848
00:46:40.119 --> 00:46:41.119
But if somebody is.

849
00:46:41.119 --> 00:46:43.239
Listening and going, oh okay, well, I've been feeling a

850
00:46:43.280 --> 00:46:45.639
bit crappy and I've been thinking that maybe I need.

851
00:46:45.480 --> 00:46:46.280
To talk to somebody.

852
00:46:46.360 --> 00:46:48.559
But do do I need to go and see a

853
00:46:48.599 --> 00:46:50.599
therapist or maybe do I need to see a coach

854
00:46:50.679 --> 00:46:53.599
and get some of this positive stuff going on? Like?

855
00:46:53.920 --> 00:46:55.480
Is there a way for people to be able to

856
00:46:55.519 --> 00:47:00.480
readily tell that they can screen what should they do?

857
00:47:00.760 --> 00:47:01.079
Yeah?

858
00:47:01.320 --> 00:47:03.400
Look, there's a lot I could say about that, but

859
00:47:03.960 --> 00:47:07.000
we have a flourishing scale which people can contact us

860
00:47:07.079 --> 00:47:10.239
about that will help determine whether you might be better

861
00:47:10.280 --> 00:47:14.920
off seeking some counseling or some clinical treatment. The Black

862
00:47:14.920 --> 00:47:18.480
Dog Institute also have some assessments on their website that

863
00:47:18.519 --> 00:47:22.159
you can go to. But I know from my research

864
00:47:22.239 --> 00:47:26.360
that often people will seek out coaching because they don't

865
00:47:26.360 --> 00:47:29.840
necessarily want to see a therapist. Over the last fifteen years,

866
00:47:29.840 --> 00:47:33.079
I've seen that change, thankfully, Cas. I've seen people be

867
00:47:33.199 --> 00:47:36.920
more open to talking about going to therapy. It's not

868
00:47:37.119 --> 00:47:40.320
like New York yet, where people brag about their therapists.

869
00:47:40.360 --> 00:47:42.679
I really want to see it become like that in

870
00:47:42.719 --> 00:47:47.400
the future. So part of my mission besides encouraging people

871
00:47:47.480 --> 00:47:52.360
to perhaps have some coaching to determine what matters most

872
00:47:52.360 --> 00:47:55.599
and how they want to live their ideal lives, but

873
00:47:55.960 --> 00:47:59.519
simultaneously I would love to see people go and seek

874
00:47:59.559 --> 00:48:03.880
profession or help for counseling or for therapy. And we

875
00:48:04.039 --> 00:48:08.960
also we offer a very I guess a brief chat

876
00:48:09.000 --> 00:48:12.519
on the phone if you're also unsure about whether coaching

877
00:48:12.599 --> 00:48:13.159
or counseling.

878
00:48:13.199 --> 00:48:15.800
We don't offer counseling, but we can.

879
00:48:15.679 --> 00:48:17.719
Certainly refer, but you do offer coaching.

880
00:48:17.760 --> 00:48:21.199
We do offer coaching, and the Australian psych Society, as

881
00:48:21.239 --> 00:48:24.039
you know CAUs have a Finder Psychologist service as well.

882
00:48:24.199 --> 00:48:24.760
But yeah, I.

883
00:48:24.679 --> 00:48:27.320
Would love to see people more people go and have

884
00:48:27.400 --> 00:48:31.039
therapy as well as coaching to determine where they want

885
00:48:31.079 --> 00:48:32.039
to go into the future.

886
00:48:33.199 --> 00:48:35.239
I'm really happy to hear you say that about less

887
00:48:35.719 --> 00:48:38.199
people now are showing up for coaching who probably really

888
00:48:38.199 --> 00:48:40.079
need to see a therapist, because I know that when

889
00:48:40.119 --> 00:48:43.039
I was life coaching that I definitely had a bit

890
00:48:43.039 --> 00:48:45.320
of that and I hadn't done my clinical psyche training.

891
00:48:45.320 --> 00:48:47.239
That I did coaching first and then went back to

892
00:48:47.239 --> 00:48:51.800
finish my clinical training, so I wasn't even necessarily I

893
00:48:51.840 --> 00:48:55.760
didn't necessarily at the time even know how to differentiate

894
00:48:55.880 --> 00:48:58.960
or to tell myself if this person really needed to

895
00:48:58.960 --> 00:49:02.239
see a therapist, could find myself in a coaching relationship

896
00:49:02.239 --> 00:49:05.480
with somebody who probably really needed to see a therapist,

897
00:49:05.480 --> 00:49:07.199
and I didn't have the skills at the time to

898
00:49:07.239 --> 00:49:09.719
know that. So that's a really important point to make

899
00:49:09.840 --> 00:49:12.960
and also good to know that now and what people

900
00:49:13.000 --> 00:49:15.480
are more willing to actually go and see a therapist.

901
00:49:15.559 --> 00:49:17.679
True, but it's a good point too because there are

902
00:49:17.960 --> 00:49:19.960
a lot of coaches out there, as you know kas

903
00:49:20.079 --> 00:49:23.679
and it's an unregulated industry. So my advice would be

904
00:49:23.760 --> 00:49:26.039
to ask a lot of questions if you're engaging a

905
00:49:26.119 --> 00:49:29.119
coach about what their education is, what their background, Have

906
00:49:29.199 --> 00:49:32.400
they had any mental health training because a lot of

907
00:49:32.440 --> 00:49:35.199
coaches in the past, I do believe it is changing now,

908
00:49:35.519 --> 00:49:40.159
have never covered off on basic mental health training or

909
00:49:40.199 --> 00:49:43.400
first aid for coaches, assuming that they weren't seeing people

910
00:49:43.440 --> 00:49:46.599
that had mental health issues, when in fact the statistics

911
00:49:47.159 --> 00:49:50.519
will would suggest that a lot of people will have

912
00:49:50.639 --> 00:49:53.039
mental health issues that are arriving for coaching.

913
00:49:53.719 --> 00:49:55.800
Yeah, can you tell us also I just know too

914
00:49:55.960 --> 00:49:58.320
before you go that you've got a program. Is it

915
00:49:58.360 --> 00:50:00.440
an online course that you're running.

916
00:50:00.840 --> 00:50:04.199
Yes, So I run the Positivity Prescription, which is also

917
00:50:04.440 --> 00:50:07.280
the name of my book that are published last year.

918
00:50:07.360 --> 00:50:10.239
We run once a year, the Class of twenty twenty one.

919
00:50:10.280 --> 00:50:10.840
It is this year.

920
00:50:10.880 --> 00:50:15.039
It's my fourth year running it. It's standalone videos and

921
00:50:15.039 --> 00:50:17.159
then I come on for a live live in the

922
00:50:17.239 --> 00:50:19.119
Lab call once a week where you can sort of

923
00:50:19.119 --> 00:50:21.480
ask me any questions that you like around the content,

924
00:50:21.519 --> 00:50:24.079
and I usually bring the latest research hot off the

925
00:50:24.119 --> 00:50:27.239
press to those calls as well. And we also launched

926
00:50:27.280 --> 00:50:30.360
last year program called Potential Plus, which is a workplace

927
00:50:30.719 --> 00:50:34.159
standalone program which I'm also really excited for, but that's

928
00:50:34.199 --> 00:50:37.480
mainly for businesses to offer to their staff. But yeah,

929
00:50:37.679 --> 00:50:41.320
we'd love to see some of the listeners in the.

930
00:50:41.280 --> 00:50:45.159
Class this year, cats jumping in, jumping in while they can,

931
00:50:45.719 --> 00:50:49.119
Susie and I know that you've offered a special discount

932
00:50:49.199 --> 00:50:51.119
for Creppy to happy listeners, which I will put in

933
00:50:51.119 --> 00:50:55.599
the show notes. But this has been amazing, really insightful.

934
00:50:55.840 --> 00:50:58.239
Thank you so much for your time and lovely to

935
00:50:58.280 --> 00:50:58.800
catch up.

936
00:50:58.679 --> 00:51:00.679
With you now. Thank you Cas the work that you

937
00:51:00.800 --> 00:51:05.880
do is really important. Historically, psychologists haven't really been out

938
00:51:05.880 --> 00:51:08.440
there talking much about the work that we do in

939
00:51:08.519 --> 00:51:11.599
the media and the public. It's very brave of you

940
00:51:11.719 --> 00:51:14.360
to do so, but it's much needed. So good on

941
00:51:14.440 --> 00:51:16.400
you and keep up the fantastic work.

942
00:51:16.800 --> 00:51:19.119
Thank you, Susie, and you too. I know you've done

943
00:51:19.159 --> 00:51:22.079
your share of workout in the media as well, and

944
00:51:22.119 --> 00:51:25.239
I think hopefully more and more of us are getting

945
00:51:25.280 --> 00:51:31.239
out and spreading the words, so I appreciate it. If

946
00:51:31.239 --> 00:51:33.880
you would like to check out Susie's six week course,

947
00:51:34.119 --> 00:51:36.840
The Positivity Prescription and be part of her class of

948
00:51:36.880 --> 00:51:40.519
twenty twenty one, head to the Positivityinstitute dot com, DOTU

949
00:51:40.599 --> 00:51:43.559
forward slash shop and use the code crappy to Happy

950
00:51:43.599 --> 00:51:46.360
twenty one to take ten percent off the course fee.

951
00:51:46.559 --> 00:51:49.719
That's crappy to Happy twenty one. You'll find Susie on

952
00:51:49.800 --> 00:51:53.400
Instagram at doctor susig or. As I said, her website

953
00:51:53.440 --> 00:51:56.519
is the Positivityinstitute dot com dot a you. Of course,

954
00:51:56.519 --> 00:51:59.159
you can always connect with me on Instagram, Cash Done,

955
00:51:59.239 --> 00:52:03.559
Underscore x so or Castdone dot com is my website.

956
00:52:03.639 --> 00:52:05.639
If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to leave us

957
00:52:05.639 --> 00:52:08.119
a rating and review. I also love reading your messages,

958
00:52:08.159 --> 00:52:11.320
so shoot me a DM on Instagram or email hello

959
00:52:11.400 --> 00:52:15.559
at castdone dot com. This wraps up our current season

960
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of Crappy to Happy. I'll be taking a very short break,

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just for a few weeks, and I'll be back with

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new episodes in a month or so. So now is

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your chance to go back through the back catalog and

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catch up on any episodes that you might have missed

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or re listen to some of your old favorites. Also,

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don't forget my third book, Crappy to Happy Love who

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You're With, is out in a matter of weeks, and

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the link to order that will be in the show notes.

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I will catch you very soon on the next season

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of Crappy to Happy. Crappy to Happy is presented by

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Cast dun produced by Davis Lenski, Audio production by Darcy Thompson.

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Listener