The science of breath with James Nestor

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A listener production. This is Crappy to Happy, and I am

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your host, Cass Dunn. I'm a clinical and coaching psychologist

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and mindfulness meditation teacher, and of course, author of the

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Crappy to Happy books. In this show, I bring you conversations

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with interesting, inspiring, intelligent people who are experts in their

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field and who have something of value to share that

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will help you feel less crappy and more happy. This week,

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I'm chatting with James Nestor. James is an author and

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a journalist who has written for publications such as The

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New York Times, The Atlantic, and many many more. I

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recently came across his most recent book called Breath The

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New Science of a Lost Art, as part of my

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own deepening interest in breath work, which I find really interesting,

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and as soon as I read it, I knew that

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I had to get James onto the show to share

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some of the fascinating things here writes about in this book. Now,

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what I did not know when I reached out to

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James was that this book, actually, after it was published

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in May twenty twenty, spent eighteen weeks on the New

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York Times bestseller list. It was also on Instant Wall

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Street Journal, Los Angeles Times and Sunday London Times top

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ten bestseller, so obviously I am not the only one

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who found it to be a compelling read. In the book,

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James explores the history of how the human species has

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lost the ability to breathe properly and why as a result,

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we're suffering from all sorts of chronic conditions like snoring, sleep, apnea, asthma,

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autoimmune disease, allergies, and so much more. Who would have

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thought the simple act of breathing, which comes so easily

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and naturally to most of us, would be the cause

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of so many physical and psychological problems. If you were

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anything like me, you might think that there is nothing

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you really need to know about how to breathe. But

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like me, you might find you're very mistaken. I really

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hope you enjoy this conversation with James James Nessa, thank

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you so much for being on the Crapy to Happy podcast.

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Thanks a love for having me, James. I recently read

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your book Breath, The New Science of a Lost Art.

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I was absolutely fascinated, and I went hunting to find

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you to talk to about your research. What I wanted

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to start with is what led to this interest of

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yours in better understanding the breath and breathing and going

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down this whole path of the research that you did.

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It wasn't one thing in particular, it was several things

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that kept happening over several years. It took me a

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long time to convince myself that breathing was a topic

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worthy of spending several years writing a book about. I

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was not convinced for a very long time until I

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talked to enough researchers and enough doctors and polmonologists and

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anthropologists that I realized that there was a story behind

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this seemingly simple thing that I could not find anywhere else.

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I didn't see that anyone else had tackled it. There's

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a lot of books on how to breathe, but not

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why we should be breathing in certain ways and what

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it's doing to us and where it all comes from.

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And so that's what I tried to focus on.

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And as a part of your research, you put yourself

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through a whole lot of personal experiments. You used yourself

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as a guinea pig to really better understand the power

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of the breath and breathing. I would be really interested

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for you to share what you know, some of the

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things that you learned, and some of the things that

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you did.

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That was never my intention writing this book. I did

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not think I was going to be in this book

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at all, and you could see that from the book Possal. Yeah, well,

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that was not really what I set out to do,

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and it always annoyed me reading nonfiction whenever I saw

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the author involve. So when I do pop up, I

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try to get out of the way as soon as

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possible and let the science come in, because I feel

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it's pretty pointless, especially when you're talking about nonfiction. If

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there's constantly this magnifying glass on the author, there should

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be a mirror on the reader. And that's how I

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approach my writing is I want the reader to be

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understanding what's happening to their bodies, what has happened, what

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will be happening in the future, and sometimes the reader

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needs some handholding, and so in those circumstances I try

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to pop in and say, hey, I don't know anything

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about the subject either, and I'm going to take you

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through the process of me learning about it, and by

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that you can learn about it too. So some of

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that process was involved in doing experiments and studies that

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I could not find anywhere else. I had spent a

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lot of time at Stanford Medical School and was looking

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through all of their studies and talking to so many researchers,

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and in particular looking at the difference of mouth breathing

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and nasal breathing. We've known that there's a huge difference

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to your brain to how you're body functions, how your

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heart functions, your blood pressure, on and on. But what

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we didn't know was how quickly the changes when you

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change the pathway through which you breathe really turn on.

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And so that's what we studied at Stanford, And honestly,

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there was no one else who was going to do

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this experiment, so I had a volunteer for it.

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So what you did was you spent ten days. Wasn't

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it completely with your nose basically glued shut, like stuffed shut,

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so that you could only breathe through your mouth twenty

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four to seven. It sounds so incredibly uncomfortable. What was

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it like and what did you discover?

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It sounds uncomfortable, And I realized, to some listeners, this

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may sound like a supersize me stunt or some jackass

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jokey stunt. But that's not how we viewed it, and

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that's not how the researchers understood it. You've got about

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twenty five to fifty percent of the population that habitually

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breathes through its mouth, and you've got a population of

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about out sixty to seventy percent of us who breathe

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through our mouths at night. So what we were doing

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was just lulling ourselves into a position that so much

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of the population already knew, that already lives with the

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difference was we were collecting a tremendous amount of data

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to actually see what was happening to the brain and

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to the body.

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And what did you I mean, I was fascinated with

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what you with what you found after ten days, that was.

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The cliffhanger there. Come on, Well, we knew it wasn't

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going to be fun, and we knew something was going

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to happen, right, because the science is very clear, these

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very longitudinal studies looking at kids the difference between mouth

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or and nasal breathing. What we didn't know was how

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quickly it was going to turn on. So within a

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few hours, my blood pressure was as high as I've

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ever seen it in my entire life, and I thought

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it was a stressful day. I spent eight hours in

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a lab getting poked and prodded and scanned. Maybe I'm

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just tired. And I went to sleep that night and

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I snored for the first time that I've ever been

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aware of. And we know this because we took about

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two weeks of baseline data. So I was not snoring

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before and the other subject in the study, and Resulsen,

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wasn't snoring before zero And within a single night of

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mouth breathing, we were both snoring. And as the study

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went on, our snoring got severe, snoring through most of

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the night. We started suffering from sleep apnea, which is

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when you're choking on yourself so bad that you're holding

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your breath throughout the night. So we were anxious. Our

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athletic performance went down. I mean, you name it. And

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what was so strange is that so many people are

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going through their days and nights feeling this way, but

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not realizing that the pathway through which they breathe is

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causing a lot of these symptoms, and just by changing

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how you breathe, you can help reverse so many issues.

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Truly fascinating. I just wanted to make the point there

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you said, we've known for a long time that the

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long through those longitudinal studies the effects of nasal breathing

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versus mouth breathing. I personally was not aware of that.

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I didn't know that was a thing. So that's I

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think for inflictitors that would be news as well. How

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dramatic those effects are of the difference between nasal breathing

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and mouth breathing.

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Well, here's the tricky thing about breathing, right, is an

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anatomical function, is it a physiological function? Is it biological?

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You know, it kind of falls through the cracks of

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all these different medical specialties. I was so surprised. My

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father in law's a pulmonologists. He's been a pollmonologist for

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about forty years, so this is an expert in the lungs.

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He's one of the top pulmonologists. I asked him all

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these questions early on. I said, well, what's the best

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way of breathing. Should we breathe into a kind of

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four and out through kind of six or is it

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more like a read eight or should we do a

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four to seven eight. He had no idea. He's like,

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that's not what we do. We fix problems. You come

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in get in a car accident. I'm the guy you

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want to talk to. You have emphysema, I'm the person

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you want to talk to. All this other stuff. No

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one's taught it. Even pulmonologists, like they're the lung guys, right,

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and they're not taught this. So there are certain sub

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specialties of people, especially in sleep medicine, whereas where a

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lot of this information has been housed, and who in

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the general public is reading sleep medicine articles. There's hundreds

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and hundreds of them showing the direct correlation between breathing

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and mental function and physical function and performance, but they're

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stuck in academic journals. So that's what I spent so

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many years doing is talking to those experts at Stanford,

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at Harvard, at Yale, at the top research institutions, and

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digging through their data and putting together a story and.

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Just to flip that. Then you spent was it another

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ten days breathing only through your nose?

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Yeah, this was the best part of the study because

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we knew that that mouth breathing part wasn't going to

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be too pleasant. We didn't know it was going to

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be so awful. I mean, so so truly awful. So

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the good part was we got to remove the plugs

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and then focus on breathing as much as we possibly

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could through our noses. So that includes at night we

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wore a little piece of tape on our mouths keep

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our mouths shut. We throughout the day were conscious of

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our breathing the whole time. And what was so fascinating

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is all of those issues that I had developed so quickly,

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and the other subject in the study we developed the

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exact same things at the same time. They all disappeared.

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So I went from snoring at my worst four hours

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a night to zero. Within a couple of days, he

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went from snoring six hours a night to zero, and

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our sleep apnea completely disappeared, to our athletic performance increasing.

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I mean, it's just across the board. And I want

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to be clear, A study with two people doesn't prove

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anything scientifically, right, I wish we had done this with

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ten thousand people. We had to pay for the study,

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there's there's no funding for this kind of thing. But

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what we were doing, if anything, was just experiencing personally

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what the science has already known for so long about

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the difference of nasal breathing and mouth breathing, and hopefully

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we contributed just a little bit too more to it,

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showing how quickly this stuff can turn on.

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And right now our audiences, I think around seventy five

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percent women, everybody who is married to a snore is

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running out to buy tape to tape their husband's mouth shut.

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I have no question would you recommend that?

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So I am not here to recommend anything. I'm a journalist,

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I am a reporter. I am not a doctor. I'm

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not a breathing therapists.

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Climate disclimate, but that is the.

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Big caveat right here in bright bold letters, and I

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hope everyone has heard that very clearly. What I did

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spend so long doing is talking to the people who

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study this, is talking to people who have worked with

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tens of thousands of people with ADHD, with snoring, with

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other issues, mental health issues and more. Nasal breathing only

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has benefits. There are no negative side effects to breathing

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through your nose. You will only benefit. So at night,

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I learned this from doctor Ann Kearney at Stanford. She

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mentioned She's like, oh, I give tape to every single

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one of my patients. Then I heard it from doctor

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Mark Burnna who's been in sleep medicine for about thirty years.

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He said, every single one of my patients gets this,

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So it seemed a little less crazy when you actually

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talk to the experts in the field who have been

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studying this stuff for a long time and what the

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sleep tape is. No, it probably seems nuts to a

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lot of people. Is this is not a fat strip

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of duct tape, right, This is in a hostage situation.

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It's wearing a teeny piece of tape the center of

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your lips, about the size of a postage stamp. This

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is not to inhibit the flow of air in and

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out of your mouth. You could still breathe that way

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if you wanted to. All it's doing is gently reminding

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you to keep your mouth shut. When you go unconscious

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and your muscles relax, what happens our mouths open up.

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So I'm not going to say it's going to cure

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everyone of snoring and sleep apnea. I will say that

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there is plenty of evidence showing that some people can

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reduce and some people can even reverse actually have zero

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snoring and even sleep apnea wearing this. But everybody is

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different and everyone has a different issue. So what I

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would suggest is listening to the expert who will say,

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wear a little piece of tape during the day for

248
00:14:04.200 --> 00:14:06.440
about a week, put it on for half an hour

249
00:14:07.000 --> 00:14:10.320
twenty minutes, who cares. Get used to that, and then

250
00:14:10.440 --> 00:14:13.120
start using it at night, and you're going to hate

251
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it at the beginning. The first couple weeks is going

252
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to be awful. Then it might get a little easier,

253
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and then your nose will actually acclimate and start opening.

254
00:14:22.120 --> 00:14:25.559
And that is what I found to be so powerful

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is how quickly that happens. And doctor Ann Kearney at

256
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Stanford was scheduled for nasal surgery. She was a mouth breather,

257
00:14:32.639 --> 00:14:36.200
and within a couple weeks she no longer needed surgery

258
00:14:36.399 --> 00:14:39.679
because her natural body did what it was supposed to do.

259
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She just needed the right inputs.

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00:14:41.679 --> 00:14:45.480
Can you just run through, I mean, from all of

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the study that you did, what are some of those

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00:14:48.519 --> 00:14:54.679
specific physical health consequences that people can experience from not

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00:14:55.039 --> 00:14:58.600
breathing correctly or not breathing properly.

264
00:14:58.919 --> 00:15:01.720
So the first part of that, we'll just stick with

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mouth breathing as opposed to naser breathing. So what happens

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when you breathe through your mouth is you aren't breathing

267
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through your nose, and by not breathing through your nose,

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you are not filtering air, you're not heating air, you're

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00:15:16.919 --> 00:15:20.480
not humidifying it, you're not pressurizing it, so that air

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goes in very quickly. You can almost think of your

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lungs as an external organ when you're breathing through your mouth,

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00:15:28.600 --> 00:15:31.639
because there's nothing in the way of all the pollution

273
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and allergens in the air making it into your lungs.

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Another thing that happens when you breathe through your mouth,

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you tend to breathe very shallow and up into the

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upper lobes of your lungs, which are really inefficient at

277
00:15:44.120 --> 00:15:47.240
extracting oxygen. So what does that require you to do?

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Requires you to breathe more just to get oxygen. So

279
00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:56.600
it's about fifty percent efficiency when you're breathing often and

280
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into the upper lobes, and that efficiency increases by thirty

281
00:16:00.440 --> 00:16:06.480
five percent when you're taking low, deep slight breaths. So

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00:16:06.960 --> 00:16:11.480
we know that you get twenty percent more oxygen breathing

283
00:16:11.519 --> 00:16:14.559
through your nose than you do equivalent breaths through your mouth.

284
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If you think that's not going to make a difference

285
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to how you're thinking and how you're feeling throughout the day.

286
00:16:19.600 --> 00:16:24.960
You're crazy. So again, this is not controversial stuff. All

287
00:16:25.000 --> 00:16:26.799
you have to do is look at a cross section

288
00:16:26.919 --> 00:16:29.480
of a human skull and see all of these ornate,

289
00:16:29.559 --> 00:16:33.360
beautiful structures in our sinuses. None of that exists in

290
00:16:33.399 --> 00:16:34.519
our mouth, and.

291
00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:36.440
The downstream effects of that in terms of like you

292
00:16:36.559 --> 00:16:38.360
listed a whole lot of things in the book, in

293
00:16:38.440 --> 00:16:44.080
terms of you know, diseases and chronic illnesses that people experience,

294
00:16:44.240 --> 00:16:48.919
which can all potentially be linked back to, at least partly,

295
00:16:49.120 --> 00:16:50.840
how we breathe.

296
00:16:51.159 --> 00:16:54.600
So your body can get by breathing through the mouth,

297
00:16:55.240 --> 00:16:58.360
just like we can get by just eating twenty cookies

298
00:16:58.399 --> 00:17:01.279
a day. Right, We'll get our calories that way. Maybe

299
00:17:01.360 --> 00:17:03.240
some people that would be a wonderful way of living,

300
00:17:03.279 --> 00:17:09.319
and that's that's great. But compensation is different from being healthy,

301
00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:13.160
and I think that we confuse those two things. We

302
00:17:13.200 --> 00:17:17.160
can get by eating this terrible food, and most a

303
00:17:17.200 --> 00:17:20.119
lot of the population is, but eventually it's going to

304
00:17:20.200 --> 00:17:24.359
catch up with us. So by breathing occasionally through your mouth,

305
00:17:25.000 --> 00:17:30.200
that's perfectly fine. Right right now, I'm going to laugh, haha,

306
00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:33.960
I'm breathing through my mouth. I'm gonna sigh. Breathing totally fine,

307
00:17:34.039 --> 00:17:37.559
even at some states of athletic endurance, when you're really

308
00:17:37.680 --> 00:17:43.640
reaching for those extreme states. Totally fine. But as a habit,

309
00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:46.640
as something you're doing all the time, it's going to

310
00:17:46.720 --> 00:17:49.039
catch up with you. So you're going to irritate your

311
00:17:49.079 --> 00:17:51.559
lungs more. You're going to be much more apt to

312
00:17:51.559 --> 00:17:54.519
suffer from panic. You're going to increase your chances of

313
00:17:54.559 --> 00:17:57.200
having asthma. You're going to increase your chances of having

314
00:17:57.240 --> 00:18:01.960
sinusitis and cavities imperiodic disease, because when you open your

315
00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:04.680
mouth and breathe all the time through your mouth, you

316
00:18:04.759 --> 00:18:07.920
change the pH in your mouth and you make a

317
00:18:07.960 --> 00:18:12.240
breeding ground for cavities and bad breath. Scientists have known

318
00:18:12.279 --> 00:18:16.039
this for over one hundred years. I found studies one

319
00:18:16.119 --> 00:18:20.359
hundred years ago of Dennis warning patients against this, and

320
00:18:20.440 --> 00:18:24.880
yet here we are one hundred years later, just discovering

321
00:18:24.920 --> 00:18:27.079
this as though it's some new thing.

322
00:18:27.440 --> 00:18:29.440
We probably don't have time to get into the whole

323
00:18:29.759 --> 00:18:34.000
evolutionary biology aspect. But I was really interested to better

324
00:18:34.119 --> 00:18:37.240
understand how the shape of our face and our head

325
00:18:37.359 --> 00:18:39.720
has changed, and that is kind of what has led

326
00:18:39.799 --> 00:18:42.119
to these problems that we didn't used to have, these

327
00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:46.720
breathing problems, you know, back when we had more apish

328
00:18:46.880 --> 00:18:49.079
kind of faces. Did you just want to talk about

329
00:18:49.079 --> 00:18:50.200
that a little bit. Yeah.

330
00:18:50.240 --> 00:18:52.160
You know a lot of people had mentioned to me,

331
00:18:52.279 --> 00:18:55.960
they said, well, you know, you look at all these

332
00:18:56.039 --> 00:19:00.440
other animals in the wild, chimps and apes and sheetah is.

333
00:19:00.480 --> 00:19:04.799
They don't need breathing therapy, they don't need sleep tape,

334
00:19:05.240 --> 00:19:07.920
they don't need any of this stuff that we have.

335
00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:12.039
Why do we need to relearn how to breathe? And

336
00:19:12.319 --> 00:19:16.480
it turns out that around three hundred years ago, a

337
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massive shift occurred in the human face. Our faces started

338
00:19:21.720 --> 00:19:26.400
growing flatter, Our mouths started growing smaller, so much so

339
00:19:26.839 --> 00:19:30.599
that our teeth no longer we're fitting in our mouths.

340
00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:33.640
They grow in crooked That's why we have crooked teeth. Okay,

341
00:19:34.039 --> 00:19:37.240
our ancestors had perfectly straight teeth. They didn't need to

342
00:19:37.240 --> 00:19:40.400
get their wisdom teeth yank. They didn't need braces or headgear.

343
00:19:40.759 --> 00:19:44.000
They all had straight teeth. When you have a mouth

344
00:19:44.079 --> 00:19:47.400
that's big enough to accommodate all thirty two teeth, you

345
00:19:47.480 --> 00:19:52.160
have a larger airway. So with our shrinking mouths, we've

346
00:19:52.319 --> 00:19:55.240
shrunken our airways, and this is one of the main

347
00:19:55.319 --> 00:19:59.279
reasons so many of us contend with chronic respiratory issues.

348
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I hope that you're enjoying this conversation and realizing the

349
00:20:06.279 --> 00:20:09.200
benefits of positivity in your own life. If you are

350
00:20:09.319 --> 00:20:12.039
enjoying the show, please be sure to like and subscribe

351
00:20:12.079 --> 00:20:14.400
so that you get notified when you epps drop and

352
00:20:14.480 --> 00:20:16.920
head on over to Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen

353
00:20:16.960 --> 00:20:26.319
and leave us a rating and review. I really wanted

354
00:20:26.319 --> 00:20:28.759
to share with you that, so my daughter and I

355
00:20:28.839 --> 00:20:32.559
both very conveniently have this genetic issue where we have

356
00:20:32.680 --> 00:20:35.720
some teeth missing, right, And so when I was growing up,

357
00:20:35.799 --> 00:20:38.400
the whole approach was go to the orthodontist and you

358
00:20:38.440 --> 00:20:40.759
put braces on, and you just bring all the teeth

359
00:20:40.799 --> 00:20:43.720
together and nobody notices that there's teeth missing. So my

360
00:20:43.799 --> 00:20:46.680
daughter's got the same thing, and the orthodontists were planning

361
00:20:46.720 --> 00:20:49.079
to do the same thing with her, and I happen

362
00:20:49.160 --> 00:20:52.200
to find one for a second opinion at a dentist

363
00:20:52.279 --> 00:20:55.519
actually who was trained overseas, and she took one look

364
00:20:55.640 --> 00:20:59.200
and said, no, we're not going to put braces on

365
00:20:59.240 --> 00:21:01.720
and make her mouth we're going to put an expander

366
00:21:01.759 --> 00:21:05.440
in and make her expand her jaw. And she showed

367
00:21:05.480 --> 00:21:08.759
me and explained to me how the shape of her

368
00:21:08.880 --> 00:21:12.079
mouth and the size of her jaw impacted her breathing.

369
00:21:12.720 --> 00:21:15.640
She said, oh, I bet she had breastfeeding problems when

370
00:21:15.640 --> 00:21:17.359
she was a baby, And I said she did, actually,

371
00:21:17.440 --> 00:21:20.200
and nobody knew why. And she explained all of this

372
00:21:20.279 --> 00:21:23.480
to me, and we've gone down this much longer, more

373
00:21:23.640 --> 00:21:27.359
complicated kind of process. But we both are so happy

374
00:21:27.400 --> 00:21:30.119
we found her because she explained this whole issue of

375
00:21:31.000 --> 00:21:33.519
the power of expanding the jaw, not just for the

376
00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:36.960
breath and the airway, but the face shape and the

377
00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:40.000
fullness in your cheeks and all of these other things.

378
00:21:40.039 --> 00:21:43.200
And she said, typically orthodontists they're only interested in symmetry

379
00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:46.319
of the teeth. They're not interested in the shape of

380
00:21:46.359 --> 00:21:48.880
the mouth and the jaw and the airway. And then

381
00:21:48.880 --> 00:21:51.440
she went on to tell me that her daughter, she

382
00:21:51.640 --> 00:21:55.559
has had taping her mouth shut to sleep for her,

383
00:21:56.400 --> 00:21:58.599
you know, most of her life. And so when I

384
00:21:58.720 --> 00:22:01.359
read that in your book, it was very validating, I

385
00:22:01.440 --> 00:22:03.680
have to say. And Proba was just something that I

386
00:22:03.720 --> 00:22:07.400
think too many people just I'm not aware of. I mean,

387
00:22:07.480 --> 00:22:09.799
where all the kids are just getting braces, right, We're

388
00:22:09.799 --> 00:22:13.079
all just making actuals am out smaller.

389
00:22:13.880 --> 00:22:18.200
Well, what you discovered was exactly what I had discovered

390
00:22:18.279 --> 00:22:20.559
years ago as well, and I think I had the

391
00:22:20.599 --> 00:22:24.680
same reaction as you had. I said, what on earth

392
00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:28.119
are you talking about. I've never heard of this before.

393
00:22:28.799 --> 00:22:32.839
You must be crazy, you must be some sketchy person

394
00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:35.880
who doesn't hasn't gone to the right school, who is

395
00:22:35.920 --> 00:22:39.359
doing things on their own. And then you actually do

396
00:22:39.480 --> 00:22:42.440
the research. And I'm lucky enough to I spend my

397
00:22:42.599 --> 00:22:46.599
days and nights usually researching this stuff because I'm very

398
00:22:46.599 --> 00:22:50.160
curious about it. And it turns out that expansion was

399
00:22:50.400 --> 00:22:54.240
exactly how we used to treat crooked teeth and breathing

400
00:22:54.319 --> 00:22:59.519
problems a hundred years ago. So where braces and removing

401
00:22:59.559 --> 00:23:02.920
teeth really got started was in the nineteen forties. With

402
00:23:03.119 --> 00:23:07.119
production line dentistry. You can rip teeth out, you can

403
00:23:07.160 --> 00:23:09.599
put them in braces, you can do the same process

404
00:23:09.599 --> 00:23:13.880
for every person that comes in. Expansion is trickier. So

405
00:23:14.440 --> 00:23:17.960
this is a very contentious thing. There's this sea change

406
00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:21.680
happening in dentistry right now that we are all witnessing.

407
00:23:22.240 --> 00:23:25.359
And ten years from now, Trust me, we will not

408
00:23:25.480 --> 00:23:27.920
be treating kids the way that we have the way

409
00:23:27.920 --> 00:23:31.599
that I was treated teeth yanked, braces on headgear, on

410
00:23:31.839 --> 00:23:34.720
retainer for two years. Oh, your teeth are still crooked.

411
00:23:35.039 --> 00:23:37.680
Let's put them back in braces. Let's do it again.

412
00:23:37.759 --> 00:23:40.880
Let's make the mouth even smaller, let's ruin the profile.

413
00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:47.079
So to me, if people don't believe this, all you

414
00:23:47.160 --> 00:23:50.359
have to do is is think of the basic geometry.

415
00:23:50.799 --> 00:23:53.200
What happens when you have a mouth that's too small

416
00:23:53.240 --> 00:23:56.039
for its face, teeth are growing in crooked. What will

417
00:23:56.119 --> 00:23:58.960
happen when you remove teeth and then take the remaining

418
00:23:59.000 --> 00:24:02.720
teeth and crane them in to a mouth even more.

419
00:24:02.799 --> 00:24:05.039
What's going to happen to that mouth. It's obviously going

420
00:24:05.119 --> 00:24:07.559
to get smaller, so the rest of the face is

421
00:24:07.599 --> 00:24:10.400
going to cave in, and you're going to deny the

422
00:24:10.440 --> 00:24:14.519
airway the space it needs. Especially in early development, these

423
00:24:14.640 --> 00:24:17.920
kids put in braces when their mouths are trying to

424
00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:20.480
grow with the rest of their bodies, and it's almost

425
00:24:20.480 --> 00:24:23.720
like footbinding. You're just keeping them small as the rest

426
00:24:23.759 --> 00:24:27.359
of the bodies are growing. So this is a very

427
00:24:27.400 --> 00:24:30.599
hot topic right now. It's been thrilled for me to

428
00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:34.079
be speaking at dental conferences. And I've been talking to

429
00:24:34.160 --> 00:24:39.920
people who since the nineteen sixties have been saying this, Dennis,

430
00:24:39.920 --> 00:24:44.079
who were the top of their field, and they just said, yeah,

431
00:24:44.200 --> 00:24:46.440
you know, it took you a while, but you finally

432
00:24:46.480 --> 00:24:51.599
caught up to how things really work. So it's fascinating

433
00:24:51.640 --> 00:24:54.519
to hear you experiencing exactly what I've experienced. And I

434
00:24:54.680 --> 00:24:57.480
can't tell you how many parents I've heard this from

435
00:24:57.680 --> 00:25:01.400
hundreds and hundreds. Now, really, you're doing your daughter a

436
00:25:01.400 --> 00:25:03.200
big favor, is all I got to say.

437
00:25:03.599 --> 00:25:06.160
And she knows it too, you know, like she she

438
00:25:06.279 --> 00:25:08.960
wishes all this orthodonic work was just done, but she

439
00:25:09.440 --> 00:25:12.920
also understands the purpose of it, which is which is good.

440
00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:15.279
You know, she would much rather have that those long

441
00:25:15.359 --> 00:25:19.160
term benefits of this process that she's going through at

442
00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:22.920
the moment. Bless her. You know. I wish that I

443
00:25:23.000 --> 00:25:25.480
had had that option when I was growing up. Now,

444
00:25:25.640 --> 00:25:29.279
in hindsight, the interesting thing, though, is what they by

445
00:25:29.319 --> 00:25:32.160
the time I got her to this dentist, she's actually

446
00:25:32.160 --> 00:25:34.519
not even an orthodontist. She's a dentist who does orthodonic work.

447
00:25:34.519 --> 00:25:36.359
But by the time I got there. She said, oh,

448
00:25:36.400 --> 00:25:37.839
we have to do this straight away. She should have

449
00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:39.799
had this done, you know, when she was eight, like

450
00:25:39.839 --> 00:25:41.880
when the jaw is the most malleable. But we'll do

451
00:25:41.920 --> 00:25:43.920
it now and we'll see what benefits we get. But

452
00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:47.279
that's the other thing that fascinated me, James about your

453
00:25:47.279 --> 00:25:50.160
book is that apparently the jaw can continue to be

454
00:25:51.319 --> 00:25:55.680
malleable through into our adult life. It doesn't just stop

455
00:25:55.720 --> 00:25:59.920
growing and then it's fixed and permanently set at that size.

456
00:25:59.599 --> 00:26:02.680
And shape, the upper jaw and the upper palette. There

457
00:26:02.720 --> 00:26:04.599
is a reason that if you take a thumb, if

458
00:26:04.640 --> 00:26:07.039
you have a clean thumb, you can take your thumb

459
00:26:07.039 --> 00:26:09.200
and feel the roof of your mouth. You're going to

460
00:26:09.279 --> 00:26:12.720
feel this ridge. It's like a fault line going from

461
00:26:12.759 --> 00:26:14.960
the very center of the roof of your mouth all

462
00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:17.880
the way back. That's a suture. Okay, it's the same

463
00:26:17.960 --> 00:26:21.559
suture that's around our skull, right and these sutures are

464
00:26:21.559 --> 00:26:25.119
there so that the skull can expand and contract, which

465
00:26:25.119 --> 00:26:28.599
it does when you chew. You can chew real hard,

466
00:26:29.000 --> 00:26:32.200
you can feel your skull expanding and contracting. So that

467
00:26:32.359 --> 00:26:35.680
suture right in the middle of our palettes can actually

468
00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:40.279
open up at any age you can expand in adulthood.

469
00:26:40.759 --> 00:26:44.039
It is much easier to do this when you're a kid, though,

470
00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:48.440
trust me, off the swim. So this is what pediatric

471
00:26:48.519 --> 00:26:51.000
dentists have been saying, and there's this whole new mission

472
00:26:52.000 --> 00:26:54.960
at six months kids should be looked at for breathing problems,

473
00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:58.240
for airway problems, for mouth issues, because it is so

474
00:26:58.359 --> 00:27:01.160
much easier when a kid is younger to build a

475
00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:04.640
solid foundation right to make sure their mouth is in

476
00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:07.160
proportion with the rest of their heads. And guess what

477
00:27:07.279 --> 00:27:10.599
happens when you do that as they grow their teeth

478
00:27:10.640 --> 00:27:14.400
growing perfectly straight. Not only that, but you save them

479
00:27:14.480 --> 00:27:18.480
a collapsing profile and you save the airway. So those

480
00:27:18.519 --> 00:27:19.839
are important things as well.

481
00:27:20.440 --> 00:27:22.519
Really interesting. I'm just waiting for my inbox to be

482
00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:26.359
flooded with people asking me for the refer good luck,

483
00:27:26.839 --> 00:27:27.559
good luck with that.

484
00:27:29.279 --> 00:27:32.000
I've been there, yeah, which is why I can no

485
00:27:32.079 --> 00:27:33.920
longer give anyone my emails.

486
00:27:33.960 --> 00:27:37.599
So yeah, chewing, the whole chewing thing that you know,

487
00:27:37.599 --> 00:27:39.880
that was another that's another really interesting thing too, and

488
00:27:39.920 --> 00:27:43.319
that's something that's been reinforced the importance of chewing solid

489
00:27:43.480 --> 00:27:46.759
food and how through evolution we have you know, we

490
00:27:46.799 --> 00:27:50.440
cook food and we eat soft food and how everything

491
00:27:50.559 --> 00:27:52.559
is suffered as a result.

492
00:27:52.839 --> 00:27:57.319
Well, chewing really starts at birth. It starts with breastfeeding.

493
00:27:57.480 --> 00:28:01.680
Because breastfeeding allows the face of the infant to be

494
00:28:01.759 --> 00:28:06.200
pulled outward. It actually expands the palette and opens up

495
00:28:06.240 --> 00:28:09.680
the airwaves. It also teaches infants how to breathe through

496
00:28:09.720 --> 00:28:13.000
their nose. They're able to breastfeed as they're breathing right.

497
00:28:13.559 --> 00:28:16.480
And so after that, what we usually do is we

498
00:28:16.480 --> 00:28:23.319
wean kids onto soft foods, apple sauces, other jarred stuff, powders.

499
00:28:24.119 --> 00:28:29.079
Did our ancestors ever have Gerber's apple sauce? They went

500
00:28:29.160 --> 00:28:33.880
from weaning to eating normal food. And that's so important

501
00:28:33.920 --> 00:28:38.200
in early stages years two, three, four to be chewing,

502
00:28:38.720 --> 00:28:42.240
really chewing masticating, because the more you do that, the

503
00:28:42.319 --> 00:28:45.640
more skeletal structure you're going to be building, the more

504
00:28:45.799 --> 00:28:48.759
musculature you're going to be building. So it's just like

505
00:28:48.839 --> 00:28:52.440
anything else. If you don't walk around for the first

506
00:28:52.440 --> 00:28:54.880
ten years of your life, how are your legs going

507
00:28:54.920 --> 00:28:56.960
to be, how fit are they going to be, how

508
00:28:57.000 --> 00:28:59.440
are they going to grow? You need to have that

509
00:28:59.480 --> 00:29:01.960
same ax or size in your mouth, and there's other

510
00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:06.079
benefits for chewing beyond just growing a proper airway. It

511
00:29:06.119 --> 00:29:08.880
delivers more blood to the brain, It calms you down,51200:29:09.200 --> 00:29:13.279



It empties sinuses and an indolent fluid, which is why51300:29:13.359 --> 00:29:16.039



there are a few tricks for people of constantly plugged51400:29:16.039 --> 00:29:19.640



ears to be chewing more and swallowing in this certain way.51500:29:20.119 --> 00:29:22.799



So what these tricks are doing is just returning us51600:29:23.079 --> 00:29:25.519



to nature the way that we were supposed to have51700:29:25.640 --> 00:29:29.720



been evolved. And when we go back to nature, something51800:29:29.799 --> 00:29:34.119



magical happens. Our bodies start becoming more in balance, and51900:29:34.920 --> 00:29:37.799



breathing and chewing are just two examples of that.52000:29:39.279 --> 00:29:41.960



So, James, there seems to be you know, there's this52100:29:42.480 --> 00:29:46.799



real focus now on breath work as a tool for52200:29:46.880 --> 00:29:50.920



people to use to enhance their well being and mental52300:29:50.960 --> 00:29:54.000



health and physical health. But the whole jeeus, even just52400:29:54.000 --> 00:29:56.319



the term breath work is confusing for some people, Like52500:29:56.359 --> 00:29:57.920



you said, what am I supposed to be doing? Is52600:29:57.920 --> 00:29:59.759



it in for four out for four? Is it infra?52700:30:00.440 --> 00:30:03.440



You know, the five seven eight breathing or whatever it is.52800:30:04.759 --> 00:30:06.720



In all of your research and all of your studies,52900:30:07.480 --> 00:30:09.240



how is it that we should be what did you53000:30:09.279 --> 00:30:13.279



discover that we should be aiming for in terms of53100:30:13.319 --> 00:30:14.759



the perfect breath, if you will.53200:30:15.559 --> 00:30:19.160



This does get confusing because so many people are telling53300:30:19.240 --> 00:30:22.640



us different things. If you look at whim Hoff and53400:30:23.000 --> 00:30:26.000



vigorous proniamas, they want you to breathe a lot. If53500:30:26.000 --> 00:30:29.559



you look at Booteko and other more meditative practices, they53600:30:29.599 --> 00:30:32.119



want you to breathe very little and slowly. And the53700:30:32.160 --> 00:30:35.279



answer is they're all right, It just depends on what53800:30:35.319 --> 00:30:37.759



you're looking for. What I tried to do in the book,53900:30:37.839 --> 00:30:41.359



because so much of this is confusing, is that the54000:30:41.400 --> 00:30:44.519



middle of the book is like, here's the foundation of breathing.54100:30:44.599 --> 00:30:48.799



This is something that anyone and everyone can benefit from.54200:30:48.880 --> 00:30:52.119



Doesn't matter if you're an ultra marathon or or an asthmatic.54300:30:52.880 --> 00:30:56.599



Everyone will benefit from nasal breathing. You'll benefit from breathing slowly,54400:30:57.240 --> 00:31:02.240



lightly and softly deeply, and you can benefit from exhaling54500:31:02.240 --> 00:31:06.119



more and relaxing the body. Once you get that foundation down,54600:31:06.440 --> 00:31:09.160



then you can start playing around with different stuff. So54700:31:09.400 --> 00:31:12.240



breath work is just like going to the gym, but54800:31:12.599 --> 00:31:15.000



instead of working out your muscles, you're working out your54900:31:15.039 --> 00:31:17.839



respiratory system. So you wouldn't go to a gym for55000:31:17.920 --> 00:31:20.680



twenty four hours a day right, that's an awful thing.55100:31:21.039 --> 00:31:22.759



Even go to a gym for three hours a day,55200:31:22.799 --> 00:31:26.160



it's too much for your body. But the short burst55300:31:26.279 --> 00:31:31.200



of intense breathwork, of intense breathing can be so powerful55400:31:31.400 --> 00:31:36.960



and resetting your nervous system, resetting your thoughts, resetting your55500:31:36.960 --> 00:31:41.079



respiratory system. And so that's the real purpose of it is.55600:31:41.200 --> 00:31:43.640



You can think of breath work as going to the gym,55700:31:43.759 --> 00:31:46.000



something to be done for a short amount of time,55800:31:46.440 --> 00:31:49.480



and then you go back to that healthy breathing, all55900:31:49.559 --> 00:31:50.960



of those healthy habits.56000:31:51.559 --> 00:31:54.480



I'm a psychologist and I don't do really one on56100:31:54.559 --> 00:31:57.400



one clinical work anymore, but when I did, whenever somebody56200:31:57.440 --> 00:32:00.279



came to me presenting with anxiety, I would always just56300:32:00.359 --> 00:32:03.279



ask them to count how many times they breathed in56400:32:03.359 --> 00:32:06.759



one minute. Just count the inbreaths. And anybody can do56500:32:06.799 --> 00:32:09.119



this at home, you know, just set a time, set56600:32:09.160 --> 00:32:13.000



a one minute on your phone, and sometimes the number56700:32:13.039 --> 00:32:15.759



of breaths per minute would be as high as you know,56800:32:15.839 --> 00:32:21.480



thirty three. There were anything from twelve thirteen, fourteen through56900:32:21.519 --> 00:32:25.640



to eighteen twenty three, twenty eight, thirty three, which when57000:32:25.680 --> 00:32:28.519



you think about it, I mean that's just really short,57100:32:28.720 --> 00:32:30.400



shallow breathing up into the top of your chest. I57200:32:30.440 --> 00:32:32.720



don't know how anybody does it, but I would just57300:32:32.759 --> 00:32:36.039



then ask them for the next minute to just breathe57400:32:36.079 --> 00:32:38.519



to my count, and I would count in for three57500:32:39.200 --> 00:32:43.319



and out for three, which gives you ten breaths in57600:32:43.400 --> 00:32:47.079



sixty seconds. Right, Many people found that very, very uncomfortable.57700:32:47.279 --> 00:32:49.039



But then what we would do is we would chat57800:32:49.039 --> 00:32:51.400



for five minutes, and then I would get them to57900:32:51.720 --> 00:32:55.400



count their inbreadths again and their breath break. It wouldn't58000:32:55.640 --> 00:32:57.880



have necessarily stayed at the ten per minute, but it58100:32:57.960 --> 00:33:01.680



might have come from twenty eight to eighteen or something,58200:33:01.720 --> 00:33:03.920



you know, like there would be this sort of lag58300:33:03.960 --> 00:33:09.079



effect where their breathing rate would stay lower for a58400:33:09.119 --> 00:33:12.119



period of time. And so for me, I just knew58500:33:12.160 --> 00:33:14.960



that that was important because of the effect of rapid58600:33:15.000 --> 00:33:18.599



breathing on your physiology and in the case of anxiety,58700:33:18.680 --> 00:33:22.119



like really important to calm down that physiological arousal. I58800:33:22.240 --> 00:33:27.680



was completely unaware of all of the physical health ramifications.58900:33:28.440 --> 00:33:31.559



But is that something you know in for three out59000:33:31.599 --> 00:33:33.519



for three, just doing something like that, or in for59100:33:33.640 --> 00:33:36.440



five out for five, you know for a couple of minutes.59200:33:36.519 --> 00:33:39.279



Is that's just something people should be starting to I59300:33:39.319 --> 00:33:44.160



know you can't give advice, but you would suggest if59400:33:44.160 --> 00:33:44.839



you're talking to a.59500:33:44.759 --> 00:33:49.599



Friend, absolutely, I'm going to give that advice. I fully59600:33:49.680 --> 00:33:53.599



embraced this one. So what these people are responding to,59700:33:53.640 --> 00:33:57.279



people with panic, anxiety, other fear based disorders. I talked59800:33:57.279 --> 00:34:00.200



with a lot of psychologists, talk with a lot of psychiatrys,59900:34:00.759 --> 00:34:05.920



talked with a few neuropsychiatrists and psychologists, and what they've60000:34:05.960 --> 00:34:11.400



found is that people with these problems traditionally have a60100:34:11.559 --> 00:34:16.400



very low tolerance for carbon dioxide. So right now, if60200:34:16.440 --> 00:34:20.800



you exhale and you hold your breath and keep holding60300:34:20.840 --> 00:34:24.480



your breath, you're going to feel that nagging need to60400:34:24.599 --> 00:34:29.400



breathe that is not dictated by a lack of oxygen,60500:34:30.280 --> 00:34:35.280



but by an increase of CO two. So what people60600:34:35.320 --> 00:34:40.159



with panic and even asthma, they become conditioned to breathing60700:34:40.599 --> 00:34:46.159



too much, too often because they associate that increase of60800:34:46.280 --> 00:34:50.880



CO two, that breath hold with an attack. What happens60900:34:50.880 --> 00:34:53.199



when you have a panic attack or an asthma attack,61000:34:53.320 --> 00:34:57.719



you can't breathe, So they condition themselves to breathe like this,61100:35:01.039 --> 00:35:04.239



and after a while that becomes normal. So one of61200:35:04.239 --> 00:35:07.320



the quickest tests and they just did a test with61300:35:07.480 --> 00:35:10.119



people with COVID and found that people who are going61400:35:10.159 --> 00:35:13.480



to be much more susceptible to having severe symptoms of61500:35:13.559 --> 00:35:17.039



COVID cannot hold their breath for a few seconds. It's61600:35:17.079 --> 00:35:20.639



the same thing with panic sufferers and asthma sufferers. A61700:35:20.679 --> 00:35:26.039



lot of therapists now have their clients exhale and hold61800:35:26.079 --> 00:35:29.000



their breath, and a lot of people with issues can't61900:35:29.000 --> 00:35:31.760



hold their breath for three seconds, they freak out, they62000:35:31.760 --> 00:35:36.280



go And so what you've experienced with the three seconds62100:35:36.320 --> 00:35:40.239



in three seconds out, if someone can't hold their breath,62200:35:40.280 --> 00:35:43.960



if they're reacting to that short amount, that small amount62300:35:44.000 --> 00:35:47.920



of CO two, then they've got this negative feedback loop62400:35:47.960 --> 00:35:51.199



which is causing them to overbreathe, and that overbreathing is62500:35:51.280 --> 00:35:54.559



causing them to be overstressed, and it's cutting off blood62600:35:54.559 --> 00:35:56.880



flow to their brain, and it's cutting off blood flow62700:35:56.920 --> 00:35:58.960



to their fingers, which is why their fingers and toes62800:35:59.000 --> 00:36:02.400



are cold, and it's creating more adrenaline and cortisol in62900:36:02.480 --> 00:36:05.679



their bodies. On and on. It's this downward spiral. Again.63000:36:06.239 --> 00:36:09.039



We can survive just fine breathing this way for a while,63100:36:09.079 --> 00:36:12.079



but after doing it for too long, it's going to63200:36:12.119 --> 00:36:14.800



wear our bodies down, And they're perfect examples of that.63300:36:15.800 --> 00:36:19.880



I am so much more conscious of my own breathing.63400:36:20.039 --> 00:36:24.199



In fact, to get through the amount of books I63500:36:24.280 --> 00:36:27.000



try to read, I will often get the paper copy63600:36:27.039 --> 00:36:30.039



book as well as the audiobook, and I listen in63700:36:30.079 --> 00:36:32.199



the car, and then I pick up and read when63800:36:32.239 --> 00:36:33.599



I'm at home. But I happen to be doing some63900:36:33.599 --> 00:36:36.719



long driving trips when I was listening to your book64000:36:36.800 --> 00:36:40.519



on audio book, and I just you can't help but64100:36:41.519 --> 00:36:45.159



slow your breathing down. Just the more that you understand64200:36:45.159 --> 00:36:47.679



and the more that you learn about the impact. I'm64300:36:47.719 --> 00:36:52.000



so much more conscious of my own breathing, like I said,64400:36:52.039 --> 00:36:54.719



like even when I go to bed at night, I'm64500:36:54.760 --> 00:36:57.360



always thinking about how am I breathing.64600:36:57.440 --> 00:37:00.599



That I think that awareness is really the first and64700:37:00.639 --> 00:37:03.840



by no means should people become a neurotic about this,64800:37:04.000 --> 00:37:06.760



like I was for several years wearing all these different64900:37:06.840 --> 00:37:10.559



doodads and collecting all this data on how my breathing65000:37:10.639 --> 00:37:13.760



was affecting athletic performance, to sleep and so on and65100:37:13.760 --> 00:37:18.159



so forth. The point is to condition yourself to become65200:37:18.199 --> 00:37:21.679



a nasal breather, to breathe slowly, to breathe rhythmically so65300:37:21.719 --> 00:37:23.920



that you don't have to think about it, so that65400:37:24.000 --> 00:37:29.000



it becomes a habit. This is your default. Sometimes changing65500:37:29.000 --> 00:37:33.360



a habit can take weeks or even months, but once65600:37:33.440 --> 00:37:36.119



you do it, you will never go back. And I65700:37:36.159 --> 00:37:39.159



can attest to that someone who was a mouth breather.65800:37:39.400 --> 00:37:42.719



I am nasal breathing all the time now and I65900:37:42.760 --> 00:37:45.280



can't for an anecdote here. I can't tell you what66000:37:45.480 --> 00:37:48.800



a difference it has made in my life. And I've66100:37:48.920 --> 00:37:53.199



seen that, I've calculated the measurements, and I'm not alone.66200:37:53.559 --> 00:37:57.440



You know, this only has benefits. Some people may experience66300:37:57.519 --> 00:38:00.559



more minor benefits at the beginning, but a lot of66400:38:00.599 --> 00:38:04.199



you will experience benefits that you would not believe would66500:38:04.199 --> 00:38:07.719



be possible just through breathing. And one other thing I66600:38:07.760 --> 00:38:10.480



want to mention is we get the majority of our66700:38:10.599 --> 00:38:13.679



energy from air from breath. A lot of people think, oh,66800:38:13.719 --> 00:38:15.000



we get it from food and drink.66900:38:15.559 --> 00:38:15.920



We do.67000:38:16.079 --> 00:38:18.800



We You know, we break that down to glucose and67100:38:19.280 --> 00:38:22.400



that's helpful and getting energy. Most of it comes from air.67200:38:22.519 --> 00:38:25.639



So if you're not getting that air efficiently, you're denying67300:38:25.719 --> 00:38:30.079



your body the ability to really function at those peak levels.67400:38:30.800 --> 00:38:33.199



I wanted to You just mentioned wim Hoff, James, and67500:38:33.239 --> 00:38:36.000



I just wanted to just come back to that for67600:38:36.039 --> 00:38:39.480



a second, because what I'm only fairly new to wim67700:38:39.519 --> 00:38:42.840



Hoff and his work and his ice and breath. I67800:38:42.880 --> 00:38:45.320



always just assumed he was the ice person, and somebody said, no, no,67900:38:45.360 --> 00:38:47.679



it's all about the breath and breathing. I just know68000:38:47.719 --> 00:38:50.280



it goes by the ice man. But the power of68100:38:50.280 --> 00:38:53.880



the breath that you also discovered to like you referred68200:38:53.880 --> 00:38:56.800



to the ancient Buddhist monks, I found this fascinating as well,68300:38:56.840 --> 00:38:59.880



and the power of using their breath to regulate their68400:39:00.039 --> 00:39:03.199



body temperature, which is what Wim does too. Right, he68500:39:03.280 --> 00:39:06.079



uses his breath to regulate his body temperature, which is68600:39:06.079 --> 00:39:08.400



how we can stay in the ice. Am I understanding68700:39:08.400 --> 00:39:08.920



that correctly?68800:39:09.320 --> 00:39:11.960



It's exactly right. The only way Wim is able to68900:39:11.960 --> 00:39:14.760



be Whim and do all of his amazing things, breaking69000:39:14.760 --> 00:39:19.000



twenty six world records is by harnessing the power of69100:39:19.079 --> 00:39:22.239



his breath. That's how he was able to sit in69200:39:22.400 --> 00:39:26.280



ice for almost two hours and not suffer from frostbite69300:39:26.360 --> 00:39:30.079



or hypothermia, and these tricks. A lot of us think69400:39:30.119 --> 00:39:33.159



that he's just some freak of nature. They have been69500:39:33.239 --> 00:39:39.199



practiced and studied and used for thousands and thousands of years.69600:39:39.760 --> 00:39:43.519



And the first scientific study of these people who were69700:39:43.559 --> 00:39:46.480



able to use their breath to heat their bodies up69800:39:46.880 --> 00:39:49.360



was actually done in the late nineteen seventies by a69900:39:49.400 --> 00:39:54.360



Harvard Medical School researcher named Herbert Benson. So again, we've70000:39:54.400 --> 00:39:56.719



known this stuff for a long time, and the ancients70100:39:56.719 --> 00:39:59.320



have known this stuff for a very long time. It70200:39:59.480 --> 00:40:02.960



just took i'm on as charismatic as Whim to get70300:40:02.960 --> 00:40:05.719



this out to the world. And I know Whim. I70400:40:05.760 --> 00:40:09.400



am a huge fan of what he's done. And I70500:40:09.440 --> 00:40:12.280



think it's so thrilling that so many, hundreds of thousands70600:40:12.320 --> 00:40:15.440



of people are now taking better control of their health70700:40:15.559 --> 00:40:16.159



with breath.70800:40:16.800 --> 00:40:19.039



It does seem like, as you said, so much of70900:40:19.119 --> 00:40:21.960



this has been known for so long, and it makes71000:40:21.960 --> 00:40:26.599



you wonder why we are only just understanding this better,71100:40:26.800 --> 00:40:28.639



you know, even in the science world. I mean, you know,71200:40:28.679 --> 00:40:30.960



like you say, there's been research done in the sixties71300:40:30.960 --> 00:40:33.920



and the seventies, and yet we're only all just becoming71400:40:33.960 --> 00:40:34.800



aware of it now.71500:40:35.840 --> 00:40:39.719



I think that this is how it works in our culture,71600:40:39.840 --> 00:40:42.800



for better or for worse. You know, things come and71700:40:42.840 --> 00:40:46.880



go and you don't get on a fast track to71800:40:46.960 --> 00:40:49.480



tenure digging up some old research. You get a fast71900:40:49.519 --> 00:40:53.320



track to tenure developing your new research in your new studies.72000:40:53.880 --> 00:40:56.400



I am a huge fan of Western medicine. I want72100:40:56.400 --> 00:40:58.840



to be very clear that this book is looking at breathing,72200:40:58.920 --> 00:41:02.440



but I be alive. Without Western medicine, most of us72300:41:02.480 --> 00:41:05.119



would be in pretty bad shape. But it's not a72400:41:05.119 --> 00:41:08.320



one way street. Health doesn't need to just you don't72500:41:08.360 --> 00:41:11.599



need to just pick one side the future in medicine.72600:41:11.639 --> 00:41:14.199



You can ask any doctor in one that studies this stuff.72700:41:14.280 --> 00:41:18.079



Is an integrative view of medicine. And that's why I72800:41:18.079 --> 00:41:21.920



think breathing is so important, because you can see within72900:41:22.039 --> 00:41:25.119



your body and brain within a few seconds of changing73000:41:25.159 --> 00:41:28.679



your breathing what a powerful impact that has. And just73100:41:28.760 --> 00:41:31.159



imagine what a few days of healthy breathing or a73200:41:31.199 --> 00:41:33.719



few months will do for you. And you can start73300:41:33.760 --> 00:41:38.840



to understand why people have reversed chronic illnesses that they73400:41:38.880 --> 00:41:43.760



were told were incurable, like asthma, like autoimmune diseases, by73500:41:43.800 --> 00:41:45.559



focusing and harnessing their breath.73600:41:45.639 --> 00:41:47.960



Would it be fair to say, James, to finish this up,73700:41:47.960 --> 00:41:53.280



that whether somebody's called to Whim's method or Kundolini or73800:41:53.519 --> 00:41:56.960



some other breathwork practitioner, you know that they should just73900:41:58.159 --> 00:42:01.679



venture out and just try and find what works for them.74000:42:02.039 --> 00:42:04.639



Absolutely different people are going to be coming into this74100:42:04.800 --> 00:42:08.719



with different needs. So someone who is an extreme athlete74200:42:08.840 --> 00:42:11.119



might really want to bump it up. Their lungs are74300:42:11.119 --> 00:42:14.000



already in good shape, right, maybe they're already nasal breathing.74400:42:14.280 --> 00:42:17.239



They can go straight to whim off breathing and really74500:42:17.280 --> 00:42:20.960



experience those benefits. For someone who has chronic anxieties or74600:42:21.000 --> 00:42:25.440



panic or asthma, I would start very very slowly. This74700:42:25.480 --> 00:42:28.360



does not have to be a competition with anyone. This74800:42:28.440 --> 00:42:33.679



is about adopting healthy habits, letting your body acclimate into74900:42:33.719 --> 00:42:36.719



a new way of being. And what I'd love about75000:42:36.760 --> 00:42:41.599



breathing so much is it's free and it's available to75100:42:41.719 --> 00:42:45.800



us at any time of the day or night. There's75200:42:45.840 --> 00:42:49.440



really no excuse not to focus on your breathing because75300:42:49.440 --> 00:42:51.480



you can do it while watching a movie on a couch,75400:42:51.480 --> 00:42:54.199



you can do it while jogging, while walking your dog, whatever.75500:42:54.840 --> 00:43:00.079



And again it's you can see the measurements of how75600:43:00.119 --> 00:43:05.000



this will change your physiology and sometimes your anatomy. Because75700:43:05.000 --> 00:43:07.599



we know that the pathway through which you breathe will75800:43:07.639 --> 00:43:10.880



affect how you look and how your face will grow,75900:43:10.960 --> 00:43:13.599



and other issues in the airway when you're young.76000:43:13.920 --> 00:43:18.039



I guess also in this whole area of wellness, people76100:43:18.039 --> 00:43:19.840



can sometimes feel like, oh, it's just one more thing.76200:43:19.880 --> 00:43:22.480



I've got to meditate and journal and you know, do76300:43:22.559 --> 00:43:25.119



my thirty minutes of exercise, and now I've got to76400:43:25.199 --> 00:43:28.079



think about how I breathe as well. Is there one76500:43:28.119 --> 00:43:31.880



small thing or one small change that people could just76600:43:32.159 --> 00:43:35.480



implement that's fairly simple. I like to call them kind76700:43:35.519 --> 00:43:38.559



of micro actions or micro commitments that people can just76800:43:38.599 --> 00:43:41.239



slowly introduce into their life without feeling like this is76900:43:41.280 --> 00:43:43.000



another thing that they have to go and study and77000:43:43.039 --> 00:43:45.159



explore and implement.77100:43:45.480 --> 00:43:48.440



Yeah, it does seem overwhelming. We've been talking about breathing.77200:43:48.800 --> 00:43:51.280



Whim off out that we've been talking about breathing slowly,77300:43:51.320 --> 00:43:55.360



breathing through the noose. I get it. But I would77400:43:55.440 --> 00:43:59.400



just look at the natural world and look at animals77500:43:59.480 --> 00:44:01.960



as as your guide. They don't have to think about77600:44:02.000 --> 00:44:05.159



their breathing because they're already breathing naturally and they don't77700:44:05.199 --> 00:44:09.360



lose that ability. So this is going to sound so boring.77800:44:09.480 --> 00:44:11.559



People want some secret I'm going to let you in77900:44:11.559 --> 00:44:15.119



know on on healthy breathing, but it's really not that complicated.78000:44:15.480 --> 00:44:17.639



Breathe through your nose is the very first thing you78100:44:17.679 --> 00:44:20.920



should do beyond becoming aware of your breathing. And this78200:44:21.000 --> 00:44:23.320



doesn't mean that you have to be paranoid about it78300:44:23.519 --> 00:44:26.360



or beat yourself up if you notice your self mouth breathing,78400:44:26.480 --> 00:44:29.079



just become aware of it and then at moments where78500:44:29.119 --> 00:44:32.679



you feel stressed. I learned this from doctor Andrew Huberman78600:44:33.079 --> 00:44:36.079



down at Stanford who's been studying this breathing method called78700:44:36.079 --> 00:44:39.119



a physiological sigh. This is something I've found to be78800:44:39.239 --> 00:44:42.800



very helpful. It's taking two breaths and then an exhale,78900:44:42.840 --> 00:44:48.840



so that's two breaths in the nose, and then just79000:44:48.880 --> 00:44:51.800



like deflating your body, you try to gain two breaths79100:44:51.880 --> 00:44:58.280



in one on top of the other. There is actually79200:44:58.320 --> 00:45:01.960



a subsect of no neurons in the brain responsible for79300:45:02.119 --> 00:45:06.280



sign and when you consciously do this, you trigger those79400:45:06.320 --> 00:45:10.599



neurons and when that happens, your whole body relaxes, which79500:45:10.679 --> 00:45:12.760



is why you see a lion or even a dog79600:45:15.440 --> 00:45:19.119



right before it goes to sleep. So this is the79700:45:19.360 --> 00:45:24.239



absolute quickest way of getting in control of your anxiety79800:45:24.599 --> 00:45:27.840



and balancing yourself out. There is a bunch of other79900:45:27.880 --> 00:45:30.840



stuff you can do after that, but start with these breaths,80000:45:31.320 --> 00:45:34.960



and then once you've reset, try to exhale longer than80100:45:35.000 --> 00:45:38.599



you're inhaling. Inhale to around three or four, exhaled to80200:45:38.679 --> 00:45:42.679



around six, and you will feel your nervous system calming down.80300:45:42.840 --> 00:45:46.159



So you can start with those tricks, and then after80400:45:46.199 --> 00:45:47.519



that you can build on those.80500:45:48.719 --> 00:45:53.239



That's amazing, James. This has been fascinating for me, I'm80600:45:53.239 --> 00:45:55.239



sure for the listeners as well. Thank you so much80700:45:55.320 --> 00:45:57.159



for your time and for your research.80800:45:58.079 --> 00:45:59.119



Thanks for having me.80900:46:02.039 --> 00:46:05.880



If this has peaked your interest in learning more about81000:46:05.920 --> 00:46:09.039



the power of breath, James actually lays out a whole81100:46:09.079 --> 00:46:11.800



lot of breathing practices in his book, along with all81200:46:11.840 --> 00:46:15.239



of the science behind them. You might also be interested81300:46:15.239 --> 00:46:16.719



to know that he wrote a book back in twenty81400:46:16.800 --> 00:46:19.760



fifteen called Deep, which is all about his experience of81500:46:19.920 --> 00:46:23.800



free diving and getting up close and personal with whales81600:46:23.840 --> 00:46:26.320



and sharks, and I can only imagine that that would81700:46:26.360 --> 00:46:28.440



be a great read too, if that is something that81800:46:28.519 --> 00:46:31.079



is of interest to you. His books are available in81900:46:31.119 --> 00:46:33.760



all good bookstores. You can find out more about James82000:46:33.760 --> 00:46:37.280



at his website mister James Nestor dot com. That's an82100:46:37.320 --> 00:46:42.119



e stoer. He's also on Instagram at mister James Nestor.82200:46:42.639 --> 00:46:46.440



Speaking of books, all three of my Crappy to Happy books,82300:46:46.480 --> 00:46:49.559



including my latest release, Crappy to Happy Love Who You're With,82400:46:50.039 --> 00:46:52.280



are now available in all Good bookstores, or you can82500:46:52.280 --> 00:46:55.320



get a signed copy from my website casdone dot com.82600:46:55.760 --> 00:46:58.360



Come and connect with me on Instagram at cast Done82700:46:58.519 --> 00:47:03.239



underscore xo, facebookcast Done dot xo. And if you enjoy82800:47:03.280 --> 00:47:05.800



the show, please do hit the subscribe button on Apple82900:47:05.840 --> 00:47:09.760



Podcasts hit the follow button on Spotify. That is how83000:47:09.800 --> 00:47:13.079



podcasts get heard by more people. So I would really83100:47:13.119 --> 00:47:16.239



appreciate your support and I look forward to catching you83200:47:16.280 --> 00:47:25.880



in the next episode of Crappy to Have You Listener,