Aug. 1, 2021

The science of breath with James Nestor

The science of breath with James Nestor
The science of breath with James Nestor
Crappy to Happy
The science of breath with James Nestor
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Season 6Physical Health

Cass talks to author and science journalist, James Nestor about the power of breath to impact our physical and mental health. James dedicated several years of his life to researching the history of how the human species has lost the ability to breathe properly and why as a result we’re suffering from chronic conditions like asthma, autoimmune disease, allergies and more. James shares what he learned and some useful ideas for how we can all begin to take back control of our breath and our health.

You can buy James’ book “Breath: The New Science of a Lost Art” here: tinyurl.com/as7x3rsa

Find out more about James at www.mrjamesnestor.com

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www.cassdunn.com
www.instagram.com/cassdunn_xo

Contact Crappy to Happy:

Email: hello@crappytohappypod.com
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Transcript
WEBVTT

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A listener production. This is Crappita Happy, and I am

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your host, Cas Done. I'm a clinical and coaching psychologist

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and mindfulness meditation teacher, and of course, author of the

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Crappita Happy books. In this show, I bring you conversations

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with interesting, inspiring, intelligent people who are experts in their

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field and who have something of value to share that

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will help you feel less crappy and more happy. This week,

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I'm chatting with James Nestor. James is an author and

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a journalist who has written for publications such as The

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New York Times, The Atlantic, and many many more. I

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recently came across his most recent book called Breath The

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New Science of a Lost Art, as part of my

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own deepening interest in breath work, which I find really interesting,

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and as soon as I read it, I knew that

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I had to get James onto the show to share

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some of the fascinating things here writes about in this book. Now,

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what I did not know when I reached out to

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James was that this book, actually, after it was published

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in May twenty twenty, spent eighteen weeks on the New

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York Times bestseller list. It was also on Instant Wall

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Street Journal, Los Angeles Times and Sunday London Times top

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ten bestseller, so obviously I am not the only one

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who found it to be a compelling read. In the book,

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James explores the history of how the human species has

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lost the ability to breathe properly and why as a result,

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we're suffering from all sorts of chronic conditions like snoring, sleep, apnea, asthma,

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autoimmune disease, allergies, and so much more. Who would have

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thought the simple act of breathing, which comes so easily

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and naturally to most of us, would be the cause

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of so many physical and psychological problems. If you were

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anything like me, you might think that there is nothing

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you really need to know about how to breathe. But

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like me, you might find you're very mistaken. I really

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hope you enjoy this conversation with James James Nessa, thank

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you so much for being on the Crapy to Happy podcast.

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Thanks a love for having me, James. I recently read

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your book Breath, The New Science of a Lost Art.

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I was absolutely fascinated, and I went hunting to find

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you to talk to about your research. What I wanted

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to start with is what led to this interest of

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yours in better understanding the breath and breathing and going

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down this whole path of the research that you did.

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It wasn't one thing in particular, it was several things

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that kept happening over several years. It took me a

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long time to convince myself that breathing was a topic

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worthy of spending several years writing a book about. I

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was not convinced for a very long time until I

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talked to enough researchers and enough doctors and polmonologists and

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anthropologists that I realized that there was a story behind

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this seemingly simple thing that I could not find anywhere else.

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I didn't see that anyone else had tackled it. There's

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a lot of books on how to breathe, but not

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why we should be breathing in certain ways and what

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it's doing to us and where it all comes from.

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And so that's what I tried to focus on.

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And as a part of your research, you put yourself

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through a whole lot of personal experiments. You used yourself

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as a guinea pig to really better understand the power

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of the breath and breathing. I would be really interested

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for you to share what you know, some of the

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things that you learned, and some of the things that

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you did.

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That was never my intention writing this book. I did

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not think I was going to be in this book

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at all, and you could see that from the book Possal. Yeah, well,

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that was not really what I set out to do,

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and it always annoyed me reading nonfiction whenever I saw

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the author involve. So when I do pop up, I

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try to get out of the way as soon as

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possible and let the science come in, because I feel

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it's pretty pointless, especially when you're talking about nonfiction. If

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there's constantly this magnifying glass on the author, there should

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be a mirror on the reader. And that's how I

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approach my writing is I want the reader to be

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understanding what's happening to their bodies, what has happened, what

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will be happening in the future, and sometimes the reader

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needs some handholding, and so in those circumstances I try

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to pop in and say, hey, I don't know anything

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about the subject either, and I'm going to take you

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through the process of me learning about it, and by

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that you can learn about it too. So some of

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that process was involved in doing experiments and studies that

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I could not find anywhere else. I had spent a

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lot of time at Stanford Medical School and was looking

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through all of their studies and talking to so many researchers,

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and in particular looking at the difference of mouth breathing

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and nasal breathing. We've known that there's a huge difference

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to your brain to how you're body functions, how your

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heart functions, your blood pressure, on and on. But what

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we didn't know was how quickly the changes when you

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change the pathway through which you breathe really turn on.

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And so that's what we studied at Stanford, And honestly,

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there was no one else who was going to do

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this experiment, so I had a volunteer for it.

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So what you did was you spent ten days. Wasn't

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it completely with your nose basically glued shut, like stuffed shut,

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so that you could only breathe through your mouth twenty

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four to seven. It sounds so incredibly uncomfortable. What was

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it like and what did you discover?

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It sounds uncomfortable, And I realized, to some listeners, this

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may sound like a supersize me stunt or some jackass

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jokey stunt. But that's not how we viewed it, and

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that's not how the researchers understood it. You've got about

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twenty five to fifty percent of the population that habitually

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breathes through its mouth, and you've got a population of

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about out sixty to seventy percent of us who breathe

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through our mouths at night. So what we were doing

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was just lulling ourselves into a position that so much

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of the population already knew, that already lives with the

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difference was we were collecting a tremendous amount of data

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to actually see what was happening to the brain and

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to the body.

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And what did you I mean, I was fascinated with

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what you with what you found after ten days, that was.

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The cliffhanger there. Come on, Well, we knew it wasn't

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going to be fun, and we knew something was going

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to happen, right, because the science is very clear, these

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very longitudinal studies looking at kids the difference between mouth

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or and nasal breathing. What we didn't know was how

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quickly it was going to turn on. So within a

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few hours, my blood pressure was as high as I've

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ever seen it in my entire life, and I thought

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it was a stressful day. I spent eight hours in

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a lab getting poked and prodded and scanned. Maybe I'm

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just tired. And I went to sleep that night and

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I snored for the first time that I've ever been

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aware of. And we know this because we took about

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two weeks of baseline data. So I was not snoring

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before and the other subject in the study, and Resulsen,

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wasn't snoring before zero And within a single night of

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mouth breathing, we were both snoring. And as the study

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went on, our snoring got severe, snoring through most of

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the night. We started suffering from sleep apnea, which is

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when you're choking on yourself so bad that you're holding

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your breath throughout the night. So we were anxious. Our

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athletic performance went down. I mean, you name it. And

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what was so strange is that so many people are

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going through their days and nights feeling this way, but

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not realizing that the pathway through which they breathe is

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causing a lot of these symptoms, and just by changing

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how you breathe, you can help reverse so many issues.

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Truly fascinating. I just wanted to make the point there

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you said, we've known for a long time that the

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long through those longitudinal studies the effects of nasal breathing

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versus mouth breathing. I personally was not aware of that.

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I didn't know that was a thing. So that's I

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think for inflictitors that would be news as well. How

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dramatic those effects are of the difference between nasal breathing

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and mouth breathing.

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Well, here's the tricky thing about breathing, right, is an

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anatomical function, is it a physiological function? Is it biological?

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You know, it kind of falls through the cracks of

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all these different medical specialties. I was so surprised. My

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father in law's a pulmonologists. He's been a pollmonologist for

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about forty years, so this is an expert in the lungs.

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He's one of the top pulmonologists. I asked him all

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these questions early on. I said, well, what's the best

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way of breathing. Should we breathe into a kind of

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four and out through kind of six or is it

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more like a read eight or should we do a

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four to seven eight. He had no idea. He's like,

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that's not what we do. We fix problems. You come

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in get in a car accident. I'm the guy you

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want to talk to. You have emphysema, I'm the person

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you want to talk to. All this other stuff. No

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one's taught it. Even pulmonologists, like they're the lung guys, right,

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and they're not taught this. So there are certain sub

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specialties of people, especially in sleep medicine, whereas where a

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lot of this information has been housed, and who in

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the general public is reading sleep medicine articles. There's hundreds

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and hundreds of them showing the direct correlation between breathing

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and mental function and physical function and performance, but they're

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stuck in academic journals. So that's what I spent so

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many years doing is talking to those experts at Stanford,

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at Harvard, at Yale, at the top research institutions, and

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digging through their data and putting together a story and.

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Just to flip that. Then you spent was it another

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ten days breathing only through your nose?

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Yeah, this was the best part of the study because

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we knew that that mouth breathing part wasn't going to

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be too pleasant. We didn't know it was going to

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be so awful. I mean, so so truly awful. So

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the good part was we got to remove the plugs

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and then focus on breathing as much as we possibly

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could through our noses. So that includes at night we

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wore a little piece of tape on our mouths keep

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our mouths shut. We throughout the day were conscious of

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our breathing the whole time. And what was so fascinating

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is all of those issues that I had developed so quickly,

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and the other subject in the study we developed the

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exact same things at the same time. They all disappeared.

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So I went from snoring at my worst four hours

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a night to zero. Within a couple of days, he

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went from snoring six hours a night to zero, and

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our sleep apnea completely disappeared, to our athletic performance increasing.

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I mean, it's just across the board. And I want

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to be clear, A study with two people doesn't prove

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anything scientifically, right, I wish we had done this with

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ten thousand people. We had to pay for the study,

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there's there's no funding for this kind of thing. But

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what we were doing, if anything, was just experiencing personally

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what the science has already known for so long about

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the difference of nasal breathing and mouth breathing, and hopefully

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we contributed just a little bit too more to it,

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showing how quickly this stuff can turn on.

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And right now our audiences, I think around seventy five

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percent women, everybody who is married to a snore is

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running out to buy tape to tape their husband's mouth shut.

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I have no question would you recommend that?

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So I am not here to recommend anything. I'm a journalist,

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I am a reporter. I am not a doctor. I'm

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not a breathing therapists.

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Climate disclimate, but that is the.

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Big caveat right here in bright bold letters, and I

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hope everyone has heard that very clearly. What I did

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spend so long doing is talking to the people who

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study this, is talking to people who have worked with

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tens of thousands of people with ADHD, with snoring, with

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other issues, mental health issues and more. Nasal breathing only

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has benefits. There are no negative side effects to breathing

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through your nose. You will only benefit. So at night,

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I learned this from doctor Ann Kearney at Stanford. She

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mentioned She's like, oh, I give tape to every single

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one of my patients. Then I heard it from doctor

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Mark Burnna who's been in sleep medicine for about thirty years.

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He said, every single one of my patients gets this,

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So it seemed a little less crazy when you actually

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talk to the experts in the field who have been

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studying this stuff for a long time and what the

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sleep tape is. No, it probably seems nuts to a

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lot of people. Is this is not a fat strip

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of duct tape, right, This is in a hostage situation.

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It's wearing a teeny piece of tape the center of

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your lips, about the size of a postage stamp. This

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is not to inhibit the flow of air in and

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out of your mouth. You could still breathe that way

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if you wanted to. All it's doing is gently reminding

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you to keep your mouth shut. When you go unconscious

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and your muscles relax, what happens our mouths open up.

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So I'm not going to say it's going to cure

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00:13:35.320 --> 00:13:38.840
everyone of snoring and sleep apnea. I will say that

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there is plenty of evidence showing that some people can

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reduce and some people can even reverse actually have zero

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snoring and even sleep apnea wearing this. But everybody is

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different and everyone has a different issue. So what I

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would suggest is listening to the expert who will say,

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wear a little piece of tape during the day for

248
00:14:04.200 --> 00:14:06.440
about a week, put it on for half an hour

249
00:14:07.000 --> 00:14:10.320
twenty minutes, who cares. Get used to that, and then

250
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start using it at night, and you're going to hate

251
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it at the beginning. The first couple weeks is going

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to be awful. Then it might get a little easier,

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and then your nose will actually acclimate and start opening.

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And that is what I found to be so powerful

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is how quickly that happens. And doctor Ann Kearney at

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Stanford was scheduled for nasal surgery. She was a mouth breather,

257
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and within a couple weeks she no longer needed surgery

258
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because her natural body did what it was supposed to do.

259
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She just needed the right inputs.

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Can you just run through, I mean, from all of

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the study that you did, what are some of those

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00:14:48.519 --> 00:14:54.679
specific physical health consequences that people can experience from not

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00:14:55.039 --> 00:14:58.600
breathing correctly or not breathing properly.

264
00:14:58.919 --> 00:15:01.720
So the first part of that, we'll just stick with

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mouth breathing as opposed to naser breathing. So what happens

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when you breathe through your mouth is you aren't breathing

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through your nose, and by not breathing through your nose,

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you are not filtering air, you're not heating air, you're

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not humidifying it, you're not pressurizing it, so that air

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goes in very quickly. You can almost think of your

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lungs as an external organ when you're breathing through your mouth,

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because there's nothing in the way of all the pollution

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and allergens in the air making it into your lungs.

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Another thing that happens when you breathe through your mouth,

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you tend to breathe very shallow and up into the

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upper lobes of your lungs, which are really inefficient at

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extracting oxygen. So what does that require you to do?

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Requires you to breathe more just to get oxygen. So

279
00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:56.600
it's about fifty percent efficiency when you're breathing often and

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into the upper lobes, and that efficiency increases by thirty

281
00:16:00.440 --> 00:16:06.480
five percent when you're taking low, deep slight breaths. So

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00:16:06.960 --> 00:16:11.480
we know that you get twenty percent more oxygen breathing

283
00:16:11.519 --> 00:16:14.559
through your nose than you do equivalent breaths through your mouth.

284
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If you think that's not going to make a difference

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to how you're thinking and how you're feeling throughout the day.

286
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You're crazy. So again, this is not controversial stuff. All

287
00:16:25.000 --> 00:16:26.799
you have to do is look at a cross section

288
00:16:26.919 --> 00:16:29.480
of a human skull and see all of these ornate,

289
00:16:29.559 --> 00:16:33.360
beautiful structures in our sinuses. None of that exists in

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00:16:33.399 --> 00:16:34.519
our mouth, and.

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The downstream effects of that in terms of like you

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00:16:36.559 --> 00:16:38.360
listed a whole lot of things in the book, in

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terms of you know, diseases and chronic illnesses that people experience,

294
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which can all potentially be linked back to, at least partly,

295
00:16:49.120 --> 00:16:50.840
how we breathe.

296
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So your body can get by breathing through the mouth,

297
00:16:55.240 --> 00:16:58.360
just like we can get by just eating twenty cookies

298
00:16:58.399 --> 00:17:01.279
a day. Right, We'll get our calories that way. Maybe

299
00:17:01.360 --> 00:17:03.240
some people that would be a wonderful way of living,

300
00:17:03.279 --> 00:17:09.319
and that's that's great. But compensation is different from being healthy,

301
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and I think that we confuse those two things. We

302
00:17:13.200 --> 00:17:17.160
can get by eating this terrible food, and most a

303
00:17:17.200 --> 00:17:20.119
lot of the population is, but eventually it's going to

304
00:17:20.200 --> 00:17:24.359
catch up with us. So by breathing occasionally through your mouth,

305
00:17:25.000 --> 00:17:30.200
that's perfectly fine. Right right now, I'm going to laugh, haha,

306
00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:33.960
I'm breathing through my mouth. I'm gonna sigh. Breathing totally fine,

307
00:17:34.039 --> 00:17:37.559
even at some states of athletic endurance, when you're really

308
00:17:37.680 --> 00:17:43.640
reaching for those extreme states. Totally fine. But as a habit,

309
00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:46.640
as something you're doing all the time, it's going to

310
00:17:46.720 --> 00:17:49.039
catch up with you. So you're going to irritate your

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00:17:49.079 --> 00:17:51.559
lungs more. You're going to be much more apt to

312
00:17:51.559 --> 00:17:54.519
suffer from panic. You're going to increase your chances of

313
00:17:54.559 --> 00:17:57.200
having asthma. You're going to increase your chances of having

314
00:17:57.240 --> 00:18:01.960
sinusitis and cavities imperiodic disease, because when you open your

315
00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:04.680
mouth and breathe all the time through your mouth, you

316
00:18:04.759 --> 00:18:07.920
change the pH in your mouth and you make a

317
00:18:07.960 --> 00:18:12.240
breeding ground for cavities and bad breath. Scientists have known

318
00:18:12.279 --> 00:18:16.039
this for over one hundred years. I found studies one

319
00:18:16.119 --> 00:18:20.359
hundred years ago of Dennis warning patients against this, and

320
00:18:20.440 --> 00:18:24.880
yet here we are one hundred years later, just discovering

321
00:18:24.920 --> 00:18:27.079
this as though it's some new thing.

322
00:18:27.440 --> 00:18:29.440
We probably don't have time to get into the whole

323
00:18:29.759 --> 00:18:34.000
evolutionary biology aspect. But I was really interested to better

324
00:18:34.119 --> 00:18:37.240
understand how the shape of our face and our head

325
00:18:37.359 --> 00:18:39.720
has changed, and that is kind of what has led

326
00:18:39.799 --> 00:18:42.119
to these problems that we didn't used to have, these

327
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breathing problems, you know, back when we had more apish

328
00:18:46.880 --> 00:18:49.079
kind of faces. Did you just want to talk about

329
00:18:49.079 --> 00:18:50.200
that a little bit. Yeah.

330
00:18:50.240 --> 00:18:52.160
You know a lot of people had mentioned to me,

331
00:18:52.279 --> 00:18:55.960
they said, well, you know, you look at all these

332
00:18:56.039 --> 00:19:00.440
other animals in the wild, chimps and apes and sheetah is.

333
00:19:00.480 --> 00:19:04.799
They don't need breathing therapy, they don't need sleep tape,

334
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they don't need any of this stuff that we have.

335
00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:12.039
Why do we need to relearn how to breathe? And

336
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it turns out that around three hundred years ago, a

337
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massive shift occurred in the human face. Our faces started

338
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growing flatter, Our mouths started growing smaller, so much so

339
00:19:26.839 --> 00:19:30.599
that our teeth no longer we're fitting in our mouths.

340
00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:33.640
They grow in crooked That's why we have crooked teeth. Okay,

341
00:19:34.039 --> 00:19:37.240
our ancestors had perfectly straight teeth. They didn't need to

342
00:19:37.240 --> 00:19:40.400
get their wisdom teeth yank. They didn't need braces or headgear.

343
00:19:40.759 --> 00:19:44.000
They all had straight teeth. When you have a mouth

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that's big enough to accommodate all thirty two teeth, you

345
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have a larger airway. So with our shrinking mouths, we've

346
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shrunken our airways, and this is one of the main

347
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reasons so many of us contend with chronic respiratory issues.

348
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I hope that you're enjoying this conversation and realizing the

349
00:20:06.279 --> 00:20:09.200
benefits of positivity in your own life. If you are

350
00:20:09.319 --> 00:20:12.039
enjoying the show, please be sure to like and subscribe

351
00:20:12.079 --> 00:20:14.400
so that you get notified when you epps drop and

352
00:20:14.480 --> 00:20:16.920
head on over to Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen

353
00:20:16.960 --> 00:20:26.319
and leave us a rating and review. I really wanted

354
00:20:26.319 --> 00:20:28.759
to share with you that, so my daughter and I

355
00:20:28.839 --> 00:20:32.559
both very conveniently have this genetic issue where we have

356
00:20:32.680 --> 00:20:35.720
some teeth missing, right, And so when I was growing up,

357
00:20:35.799 --> 00:20:38.400
the whole approach was go to the orthodontist and you

358
00:20:38.440 --> 00:20:40.759
put braces on, and you just bring all the teeth

359
00:20:40.799 --> 00:20:43.720
together and nobody notices that there's teeth missing. So my

360
00:20:43.799 --> 00:20:46.680
daughter's got the same thing, and the orthodontists were planning

361
00:20:46.720 --> 00:20:49.079
to do the same thing with her, and I happen

362
00:20:49.160 --> 00:20:52.200
to find one for a second opinion at a dentist

363
00:20:52.279 --> 00:20:55.519
actually who was trained overseas, and she took one look

364
00:20:55.640 --> 00:20:59.200
and said, no, we're not going to put braces on

365
00:20:59.240 --> 00:21:01.720
and make her mouth we're going to put an expander

366
00:21:01.759 --> 00:21:05.440
in and make her expand her jaw. And she showed

367
00:21:05.480 --> 00:21:08.759
me and explained to me how the shape of her

368
00:21:08.880 --> 00:21:12.079
mouth and the size of her jaw impacted her breathing.

369
00:21:12.720 --> 00:21:15.640
She said, oh, I bet she had breastfeeding problems when

370
00:21:15.640 --> 00:21:17.359
she was a baby, And I said she did, actually,

371
00:21:17.440 --> 00:21:20.200
and nobody knew why. And she explained all of this

372
00:21:20.279 --> 00:21:23.480
to me, and we've gone down this much longer, more

373
00:21:23.640 --> 00:21:27.359
complicated kind of process. But we both are so happy

374
00:21:27.400 --> 00:21:30.119
we found her because she explained this whole issue of

375
00:21:31.000 --> 00:21:33.519
the power of expanding the jaw, not just for the

376
00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:36.960
breath and the airway, but the face shape and the

377
00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:40.000
fullness in your cheeks and all of these other things.

378
00:21:40.039 --> 00:21:43.200
And she said, typically orthodontists they're only interested in symmetry

379
00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:46.319
of the teeth. They're not interested in the shape of

380
00:21:46.359 --> 00:21:48.880
the mouth and the jaw and the airway. And then

381
00:21:48.880 --> 00:21:51.440
she went on to tell me that her daughter, she

382
00:21:51.640 --> 00:21:55.559
has had taping her mouth shut to sleep for her,

383
00:21:56.400 --> 00:21:58.599
you know, most of her life. And so when I

384
00:21:58.720 --> 00:22:01.359
read that in your book, it was very validating, I

385
00:22:01.440 --> 00:22:03.680
have to say. And Proba was just something that I

386
00:22:03.720 --> 00:22:07.400
think too many people just I'm not aware of. I mean,

387
00:22:07.480 --> 00:22:09.799
where all the kids are just getting braces, right, We're

388
00:22:09.799 --> 00:22:13.079
all just making actuals am out smaller.

389
00:22:13.880 --> 00:22:18.200
Well, what you discovered was exactly what I had discovered

390
00:22:18.279 --> 00:22:20.559
years ago as well, and I think I had the

391
00:22:20.599 --> 00:22:24.680
same reaction as you had. I said, what on earth

392
00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:28.119
are you talking about. I've never heard of this before.

393
00:22:28.799 --> 00:22:32.839
You must be crazy, you must be some sketchy person

394
00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:35.880
who doesn't hasn't gone to the right school, who is

395
00:22:35.920 --> 00:22:39.359
doing things on their own. And then you actually do

396
00:22:39.480 --> 00:22:42.440
the research. And I'm lucky enough to I spend my

397
00:22:42.599 --> 00:22:46.599
days and nights usually researching this stuff because I'm very

398
00:22:46.599 --> 00:22:50.160
curious about it. And it turns out that expansion was

399
00:22:50.400 --> 00:22:54.240
exactly how we used to treat crooked teeth and breathing

400
00:22:54.319 --> 00:22:59.519
problems a hundred years ago. So where braces and removing

401
00:22:59.559 --> 00:23:02.920
teeth really got started was in the nineteen forties. With

402
00:23:03.119 --> 00:23:07.119
production line dentistry. You can rip teeth out, you can

403
00:23:07.160 --> 00:23:09.599
put them in braces, you can do the same process

404
00:23:09.599 --> 00:23:13.880
for every person that comes in. Expansion is trickier. So

405
00:23:14.440 --> 00:23:17.960
this is a very contentious thing. There's this sea change

406
00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:21.680
happening in dentistry right now that we are all witnessing.

407
00:23:22.240 --> 00:23:25.359
And ten years from now, Trust me, we will not

408
00:23:25.480 --> 00:23:27.920
be treating kids the way that we have the way

409
00:23:27.920 --> 00:23:31.599
that I was treated teeth yanked, braces on headgear, on

410
00:23:31.839 --> 00:23:34.720
retainer for two years. Oh, your teeth are still crooked.

411
00:23:35.039 --> 00:23:37.680
Let's put them back in braces. Let's do it again.

412
00:23:37.759 --> 00:23:40.880
Let's make the mouth even smaller, let's ruin the profile.

413
00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:47.079
So to me, if people don't believe this, all you

414
00:23:47.160 --> 00:23:50.359
have to do is is think of the basic geometry.

415
00:23:50.799 --> 00:23:53.200
What happens when you have a mouth that's too small

416
00:23:53.240 --> 00:23:56.039
for its face, teeth are growing in crooked. What will

417
00:23:56.119 --> 00:23:58.960
happen when you remove teeth and then take the remaining

418
00:23:59.000 --> 00:24:02.720
teeth and crane them in to a mouth even more.

419
00:24:02.799 --> 00:24:05.039
What's going to happen to that mouth. It's obviously going

420
00:24:05.119 --> 00:24:07.559
to get smaller, so the rest of the face is

421
00:24:07.599 --> 00:24:10.400
going to cave in, and you're going to deny the

422
00:24:10.440 --> 00:24:14.519
airway the space it needs. Especially in early development, these

423
00:24:14.640 --> 00:24:17.920
kids put in braces when their mouths are trying to

424
00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:20.480
grow with the rest of their bodies, and it's almost

425
00:24:20.480 --> 00:24:23.720
like footbinding. You're just keeping them small as the rest

426
00:24:23.759 --> 00:24:27.359
of the bodies are growing. So this is a very

427
00:24:27.400 --> 00:24:30.599
hot topic right now. It's been thrilled for me to

428
00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:34.079
be speaking at dental conferences. And I've been talking to

429
00:24:34.160 --> 00:24:39.920
people who since the nineteen sixties have been saying this, Dennis,

430
00:24:39.920 --> 00:24:44.079
who were the top of their field, and they just said, yeah,

431
00:24:44.200 --> 00:24:46.440
you know, it took you a while, but you finally

432
00:24:46.480 --> 00:24:51.599
caught up to how things really work. So it's fascinating

433
00:24:51.640 --> 00:24:54.519
to hear you experiencing exactly what I've experienced. And I

434
00:24:54.680 --> 00:24:57.480
can't tell you how many parents I've heard this from

435
00:24:57.680 --> 00:25:01.400
hundreds and hundreds. Now, really, you're doing your daughter a

436
00:25:01.400 --> 00:25:03.200
big favor, is all I got to say.

437
00:25:03.599 --> 00:25:06.160
And she knows it too, you know, like she she

438
00:25:06.279 --> 00:25:08.960
wishes all this orthodonic work was just done, but she

439
00:25:09.440 --> 00:25:12.920
also understands the purpose of it, which is which is good.

440
00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:15.279
You know, she would much rather have that those long

441
00:25:15.359 --> 00:25:19.160
term benefits of this process that she's going through at

442
00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:22.920
the moment. Bless her. You know. I wish that I

443
00:25:23.000 --> 00:25:25.480
had had that option when I was growing up. Now,

444
00:25:25.640 --> 00:25:29.279
in hindsight, the interesting thing, though, is what they by

445
00:25:29.319 --> 00:25:32.160
the time I got her to this dentist, she's actually

446
00:25:32.160 --> 00:25:34.519
not even an orthodontist. She's a dentist who does orthodonic work.

447
00:25:34.519 --> 00:25:36.359
But by the time I got there. She said, oh,

448
00:25:36.400 --> 00:25:37.839
we have to do this straight away. She should have

449
00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:39.799
had this done, you know, when she was eight, like

450
00:25:39.839 --> 00:25:41.880
when the jaw is the most malleable. But we'll do

451
00:25:41.920 --> 00:25:43.920
it now and we'll see what benefits we get. But

452
00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:47.279
that's the other thing that fascinated me, James about your

453
00:25:47.279 --> 00:25:50.160
book is that apparently the jaw can continue to be

454
00:25:51.319 --> 00:25:55.680
malleable through into our adult life. It doesn't just stop

455
00:25:55.720 --> 00:25:59.920
growing and then it's fixed and permanently set at that size.

456
00:25:59.599 --> 00:26:02.680
And shape, the upper jaw and the upper palette. There

457
00:26:02.720 --> 00:26:04.599
is a reason that if you take a thumb, if

458
00:26:04.640 --> 00:26:07.039
you have a clean thumb, you can take your thumb

459
00:26:07.039 --> 00:26:09.200
and feel the roof of your mouth. You're going to

460
00:26:09.279 --> 00:26:12.720
feel this ridge. It's like a fault line going from

461
00:26:12.759 --> 00:26:14.960
the very center of the roof of your mouth all

462
00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:17.880
the way back. That's a suture. Okay, it's the same

463
00:26:17.960 --> 00:26:21.559
suture that's around our skull, right and these sutures are

464
00:26:21.559 --> 00:26:25.119
there so that the skull can expand and contract, which

465
00:26:25.119 --> 00:26:28.599
it does when you chew. You can chew real hard,

466
00:26:29.000 --> 00:26:32.200
you can feel your skull expanding and contracting. So that

467
00:26:32.359 --> 00:26:35.680
suture right in the middle of our palettes can actually

468
00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:40.279
open up at any age you can expand in adulthood.

469
00:26:40.759 --> 00:26:44.039
It is much easier to do this when you're a kid, though,

470
00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:48.440
trust me, off the swim. So this is what pediatric

471
00:26:48.519 --> 00:26:51.000
dentists have been saying, and there's this whole new mission

472
00:26:52.000 --> 00:26:54.960
at six months kids should be looked at for breathing problems,

473
00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:58.240
for airway problems, for mouth issues, because it is so

474
00:26:58.359 --> 00:27:01.160
much easier when a kid is younger to build a

475
00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:04.640
solid foundation right to make sure their mouth is in

476
00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:07.160
proportion with the rest of their heads. And guess what

477
00:27:07.279 --> 00:27:10.599
happens when you do that as they grow their teeth

478
00:27:10.640 --> 00:27:14.400
growing perfectly straight. Not only that, but you save them

479
00:27:14.480 --> 00:27:18.480
a collapsing profile and you save the airway. So those

480
00:27:18.519 --> 00:27:19.839
are important things as well.

481
00:27:20.440 --> 00:27:22.519
Really interesting. I'm just waiting for my inbox to be

482
00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:26.359
flooded with people asking me for the refer good luck,

483
00:27:26.839 --> 00:27:27.559
good luck with that.

484
00:27:29.279 --> 00:27:32.000
I've been there, yeah, which is why I can no

485
00:27:32.079 --> 00:27:33.920
longer give anyone my emails.

486
00:27:33.960 --> 00:27:37.599
So yeah, chewing, the whole chewing thing that you know,

487
00:27:37.599 --> 00:27:39.880
that was another that's another really interesting thing too, and

488
00:27:39.920 --> 00:27:43.319
that's something that's been reinforced the importance of chewing solid

489
00:27:43.480 --> 00:27:46.759
food and how through evolution we have you know, we

490
00:27:46.799 --> 00:27:50.440
cook food and we eat soft food and how everything

491
00:27:50.559 --> 00:27:52.559
is suffered as a result.

492
00:27:52.839 --> 00:27:57.319
Well, chewing really starts at birth. It starts with breastfeeding.

493
00:27:57.480 --> 00:28:01.680
Because breastfeeding allows the face of the infant to be

494
00:28:01.759 --> 00:28:06.200
pulled outward. It actually expands the palette and opens up

495
00:28:06.240 --> 00:28:09.680
the airwaves. It also teaches infants how to breathe through

496
00:28:09.720 --> 00:28:13.000
their nose. They're able to breastfeed as they're breathing right.

497
00:28:13.559 --> 00:28:16.480
And so after that, what we usually do is we

498
00:28:16.480 --> 00:28:23.319
wean kids onto soft foods, apple sauces, other jarred stuff, powders.

499
00:28:24.119 --> 00:28:29.079
Did our ancestors ever have Gerber's apple sauce? They went

500
00:28:29.160 --> 00:28:33.880
from weaning to eating normal food. And that's so important

501
00:28:33.920 --> 00:28:38.200
in early stages years two, three, four to be chewing,

502
00:28:38.720 --> 00:28:42.240
really chewing masticating, because the more you do that, the

503
00:28:42.319 --> 00:28:45.640
more skeletal structure you're going to be building, the more

504
00:28:45.799 --> 00:28:48.759
musculature you're going to be building. So it's just like

505
00:28:48.839 --> 00:28:52.440
anything else. If you don't walk around for the first

506
00:28:52.440 --> 00:28:54.880
ten years of your life, how are your legs going

507
00:28:54.920 --> 00:28:56.960
to be, how fit are they going to be, how

508
00:28:57.000 --> 00:28:59.440
are they going to grow? You need to have that

509
00:28:59.480 --> 00:29:01.960
same ax or size in your mouth, and there's other

510
00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:06.079
benefits for chewing beyond just growing a proper airway. It

511
00:29:06.119 --> 00:29:08.880
delivers more blood to the brain, It calms you down,

512
00:29:09.200 --> 00:29:13.279
It empties sinuses and an indolent fluid, which is why

513
00:29:13.359 --> 00:29:16.039
there are a few tricks for people of constantly plugged

514
00:29:16.039 --> 00:29:19.640
ears to be chewing more and swallowing in this certain way.

515
00:29:20.119 --> 00:29:22.799
So what these tricks are doing is just returning us

516
00:29:23.079 --> 00:29:25.519
to nature the way that we were supposed to have

517
00:29:25.640 --> 00:29:29.720
been evolved. And when we go back to nature, something

518
00:29:29.799 --> 00:29:34.119
magical happens. Our bodies start becoming more in balance, and

519
00:29:34.920 --> 00:29:37.799
breathing and chewing are just two examples of that.

520
00:29:39.279 --> 00:29:41.960
So, James, there seems to be you know, there's this

521
00:29:42.480 --> 00:29:46.799
real focus now on breath work as a tool for

522
00:29:46.880 --> 00:29:50.920
people to use to enhance their well being and mental

523
00:29:50.960 --> 00:29:54.000
health and physical health. But the whole jeeus, even just

524
00:29:54.000 --> 00:29:56.319
the term breath work is confusing for some people, Like

525
00:29:56.359 --> 00:29:57.920
you said, what am I supposed to be doing? Is

526
00:29:57.920 --> 00:29:59.759
it in for four out for four? Is it infra?

527
00:30:00.440 --> 00:30:03.440
You know, the five seven eight breathing or whatever it is.

528
00:30:04.759 --> 00:30:06.720
In all of your research and all of your studies,

529
00:30:07.480 --> 00:30:09.240
how is it that we should be what did you

530
00:30:09.279 --> 00:30:13.279
discover that we should be aiming for in terms of

531
00:30:13.319 --> 00:30:14.759
the perfect breath, if you will.

532
00:30:15.559 --> 00:30:19.160
This does get confusing because so many people are telling

533
00:30:19.240 --> 00:30:22.640
us different things. If you look at whim Hoff and

534
00:30:23.000 --> 00:30:26.000
vigorous proniamas, they want you to breathe a lot. If

535
00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:29.559
you look at Booteko and other more meditative practices, they

536
00:30:29.599 --> 00:30:32.119
want you to breathe very little and slowly. And the

537
00:30:32.160 --> 00:30:35.279
answer is they're all right, It just depends on what

538
00:30:35.319 --> 00:30:37.759
you're looking for. What I tried to do in the book,

539
00:30:37.839 --> 00:30:41.359
because so much of this is confusing, is that the

540
00:30:41.400 --> 00:30:44.519
middle of the book is like, here's the foundation of breathing.

541
00:30:44.599 --> 00:30:48.799
This is something that anyone and everyone can benefit from.

542
00:30:48.880 --> 00:30:52.119
Doesn't matter if you're an ultra marathon or or an asthmatic.

543
00:30:52.880 --> 00:30:56.599
Everyone will benefit from nasal breathing. You'll benefit from breathing slowly,

544
00:30:57.240 --> 00:31:02.240
lightly and softly deeply, and you can benefit from exhaling

545
00:31:02.240 --> 00:31:06.119
more and relaxing the body. Once you get that foundation down,

546
00:31:06.440 --> 00:31:09.160
then you can start playing around with different stuff. So

547
00:31:09.400 --> 00:31:12.240
breath work is just like going to the gym, but

548
00:31:12.599 --> 00:31:15.000
instead of working out your muscles, you're working out your

549
00:31:15.039 --> 00:31:17.839
respiratory system. So you wouldn't go to a gym for

550
00:31:17.920 --> 00:31:20.680
twenty four hours a day right, that's an awful thing.

551
00:31:21.039 --> 00:31:22.759
Even go to a gym for three hours a day,

552
00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:26.160
it's too much for your body. But the short burst

553
00:31:26.279 --> 00:31:31.200
of intense breathwork, of intense breathing can be so powerful

554
00:31:31.400 --> 00:31:36.960
and resetting your nervous system, resetting your thoughts, resetting your

555
00:31:36.960 --> 00:31:41.079
respiratory system. And so that's the real purpose of it is.

556
00:31:41.200 --> 00:31:43.640
You can think of breath work as going to the gym,

557
00:31:43.759 --> 00:31:46.000
something to be done for a short amount of time,

558
00:31:46.440 --> 00:31:49.480
and then you go back to that healthy breathing, all

559
00:31:49.559 --> 00:31:50.960
of those healthy habits.

560
00:31:51.559 --> 00:31:54.480
I'm a psychologist and I don't do really one on

561
00:31:54.559 --> 00:31:57.400
one clinical work anymore, but when I did, whenever somebody

562
00:31:57.440 --> 00:32:00.279
came to me presenting with anxiety, I would always just

563
00:32:00.359 --> 00:32:03.279
ask them to count how many times they breathed in

564
00:32:03.359 --> 00:32:06.759
one minute. Just count the inbreaths. And anybody can do

565
00:32:06.799 --> 00:32:09.119
this at home, you know, just set a time, set

566
00:32:09.160 --> 00:32:13.000
a one minute on your phone, and sometimes the number

567
00:32:13.039 --> 00:32:15.759
of breaths per minute would be as high as you know,

568
00:32:15.839 --> 00:32:21.480
thirty three. There were anything from twelve thirteen, fourteen through

569
00:32:21.519 --> 00:32:25.640
to eighteen twenty three, twenty eight, thirty three, which when

570
00:32:25.680 --> 00:32:28.519
you think about it, I mean that's just really short,

571
00:32:28.720 --> 00:32:30.400
shallow breathing up into the top of your chest. I

572
00:32:30.440 --> 00:32:32.720
don't know how anybody does it, but I would just

573
00:32:32.759 --> 00:32:36.039
then ask them for the next minute to just breathe

574
00:32:36.079 --> 00:32:38.519
to my count, and I would count in for three

575
00:32:39.200 --> 00:32:43.319
and out for three, which gives you ten breaths in

576
00:32:43.400 --> 00:32:47.079
sixty seconds. Right, Many people found that very, very uncomfortable.

577
00:32:47.279 --> 00:32:49.039
But then what we would do is we would chat

578
00:32:49.039 --> 00:32:51.400
for five minutes, and then I would get them to

579
00:32:51.720 --> 00:32:55.400
count their inbreadths again and their breath break. It wouldn't

580
00:32:55.640 --> 00:32:57.880
have necessarily stayed at the ten per minute, but it

581
00:32:57.960 --> 00:33:01.680
might have come from twenty eight to eighteen or something,

582
00:33:01.720 --> 00:33:03.920
you know, like there would be this sort of lag

583
00:33:03.960 --> 00:33:09.079
effect where their breathing rate would stay lower for a

584
00:33:09.119 --> 00:33:12.119
period of time. And so for me, I just knew

585
00:33:12.160 --> 00:33:14.960
that that was important because of the effect of rapid

586
00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:18.599
breathing on your physiology and in the case of anxiety,

587
00:33:18.680 --> 00:33:22.119
like really important to calm down that physiological arousal. I

588
00:33:22.240 --> 00:33:27.680
was completely unaware of all of the physical health ramifications.

589
00:33:28.440 --> 00:33:31.559
But is that something you know in for three out

590
00:33:31.599 --> 00:33:33.519
for three, just doing something like that, or in for

591
00:33:33.640 --> 00:33:36.440
five out for five, you know for a couple of minutes.

592
00:33:36.519 --> 00:33:39.279
Is that's just something people should be starting to I

593
00:33:39.319 --> 00:33:44.160
know you can't give advice, but you would suggest if

594
00:33:44.160 --> 00:33:44.839
you're talking to a.

595
00:33:44.759 --> 00:33:49.599
Friend, absolutely, I'm going to give that advice. I fully

596
00:33:49.680 --> 00:33:53.599
embraced this one. So what these people are responding to,

597
00:33:53.640 --> 00:33:57.279
people with panic, anxiety, other fear based disorders. I talked

598
00:33:57.279 --> 00:34:00.200
with a lot of psychologists, talk with a lot of psychiatrys,

599
00:34:00.759 --> 00:34:05.920
talked with a few neuropsychiatrists and psychologists, and what they've

600
00:34:05.960 --> 00:34:11.400
found is that people with these problems traditionally have a

601
00:34:11.559 --> 00:34:16.400
very low tolerance for carbon dioxide. So right now, if

602
00:34:16.440 --> 00:34:20.800
you exhale and you hold your breath and keep holding

603
00:34:20.840 --> 00:34:24.480
your breath, you're going to feel that nagging need to

604
00:34:24.599 --> 00:34:29.400
breathe that is not dictated by a lack of oxygen,

605
00:34:30.280 --> 00:34:35.280
but by an increase of CO two. So what people

606
00:34:35.320 --> 00:34:40.159
with panic and even asthma, they become conditioned to breathing

607
00:34:40.599 --> 00:34:46.159
too much, too often because they associate that increase of

608
00:34:46.280 --> 00:34:50.880
CO two, that breath hold with an attack. What happens

609
00:34:50.880 --> 00:34:53.199
when you have a panic attack or an asthma attack,

610
00:34:53.320 --> 00:34:57.719
you can't breathe, So they condition themselves to breathe like this,

611
00:35:01.039 --> 00:35:04.239
and after a while that becomes normal. So one of

612
00:35:04.239 --> 00:35:07.320
the quickest tests and they just did a test with

613
00:35:07.480 --> 00:35:10.119
people with COVID and found that people who are going

614
00:35:10.159 --> 00:35:13.480
to be much more susceptible to having severe symptoms of

615
00:35:13.559 --> 00:35:17.039
COVID cannot hold their breath for a few seconds. It's

616
00:35:17.079 --> 00:35:20.639
the same thing with panic sufferers and asthma sufferers. A

617
00:35:20.679 --> 00:35:26.039
lot of therapists now have their clients exhale and hold

618
00:35:26.079 --> 00:35:29.000
their breath, and a lot of people with issues can't

619
00:35:29.000 --> 00:35:31.760
hold their breath for three seconds, they freak out, they

620
00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:36.280
go And so what you've experienced with the three seconds

621
00:35:36.320 --> 00:35:40.239
in three seconds out, if someone can't hold their breath,

622
00:35:40.280 --> 00:35:43.960
if they're reacting to that short amount, that small amount

623
00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:47.920
of CO two, then they've got this negative feedback loop

624
00:35:47.960 --> 00:35:51.199
which is causing them to overbreathe, and that overbreathing is

625
00:35:51.280 --> 00:35:54.559
causing them to be overstressed, and it's cutting off blood

626
00:35:54.559 --> 00:35:56.880
flow to their brain, and it's cutting off blood flow

627
00:35:56.920 --> 00:35:58.960
to their fingers, which is why their fingers and toes

628
00:35:59.000 --> 00:36:02.400
are cold, and it's creating more adrenaline and cortisol in

629
00:36:02.480 --> 00:36:05.679
their bodies. On and on. It's this downward spiral. Again.

630
00:36:06.239 --> 00:36:09.039
We can survive just fine breathing this way for a while,

631
00:36:09.079 --> 00:36:12.079
but after doing it for too long, it's going to

632
00:36:12.119 --> 00:36:14.800
wear our bodies down, And they're perfect examples of that.

633
00:36:15.800 --> 00:36:19.880
I am so much more conscious of my own breathing.

634
00:36:20.039 --> 00:36:24.199
In fact, to get through the amount of books I

635
00:36:24.280 --> 00:36:27.000
try to read, I will often get the paper copy

636
00:36:27.039 --> 00:36:30.039
book as well as the audiobook, and I listen in

637
00:36:30.079 --> 00:36:32.199
the car, and then I pick up and read when

638
00:36:32.239 --> 00:36:33.599
I'm at home. But I happen to be doing some

639
00:36:33.599 --> 00:36:36.719
long driving trips when I was listening to your book

640
00:36:36.800 --> 00:36:40.519
on audio book, and I just you can't help but

641
00:36:41.519 --> 00:36:45.159
slow your breathing down. Just the more that you understand

642
00:36:45.159 --> 00:36:47.679
and the more that you learn about the impact. I'm

643
00:36:47.719 --> 00:36:52.000
so much more conscious of my own breathing, like I said,

644
00:36:52.039 --> 00:36:54.719
like even when I go to bed at night, I'm

645
00:36:54.760 --> 00:36:57.360
always thinking about how am I breathing.

646
00:36:57.440 --> 00:37:00.599
That I think that awareness is really the first and

647
00:37:00.639 --> 00:37:03.840
by no means should people become a neurotic about this,

648
00:37:04.000 --> 00:37:06.760
like I was for several years wearing all these different

649
00:37:06.840 --> 00:37:10.559
doodads and collecting all this data on how my breathing

650
00:37:10.639 --> 00:37:13.760
was affecting athletic performance, to sleep and so on and

651
00:37:13.760 --> 00:37:18.159
so forth. The point is to condition yourself to become

652
00:37:18.199 --> 00:37:21.679
a nasal breather, to breathe slowly, to breathe rhythmically so

653
00:37:21.719 --> 00:37:23.920
that you don't have to think about it, so that

654
00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:29.000
it becomes a habit. This is your default. Sometimes changing

655
00:37:29.000 --> 00:37:33.360
a habit can take weeks or even months, but once

656
00:37:33.440 --> 00:37:36.119
you do it, you will never go back. And I

657
00:37:36.159 --> 00:37:39.159
can attest to that someone who was a mouth breather.

658
00:37:39.400 --> 00:37:42.719
I am nasal breathing all the time now and I

659
00:37:42.760 --> 00:37:45.280
can't for an anecdote here. I can't tell you what

660
00:37:45.480 --> 00:37:48.800
a difference it has made in my life. And I've

661
00:37:48.920 --> 00:37:53.199
seen that, I've calculated the measurements, and I'm not alone.

662
00:37:53.559 --> 00:37:57.440
You know, this only has benefits. Some people may experience

663
00:37:57.519 --> 00:38:00.559
more minor benefits at the beginning, but a lot of

664
00:38:00.599 --> 00:38:04.199
you will experience benefits that you would not believe would

665
00:38:04.199 --> 00:38:07.719
be possible just through breathing. And one other thing I

666
00:38:07.760 --> 00:38:10.480
want to mention is we get the majority of our

667
00:38:10.599 --> 00:38:13.679
energy from air from breath. A lot of people think, oh,

668
00:38:13.719 --> 00:38:15.000
we get it from food and drink.

669
00:38:15.559 --> 00:38:15.920
We do.

670
00:38:16.079 --> 00:38:18.800
We You know, we break that down to glucose and

671
00:38:19.280 --> 00:38:22.400
that's helpful and getting energy. Most of it comes from air.

672
00:38:22.519 --> 00:38:25.639
So if you're not getting that air efficiently, you're denying

673
00:38:25.719 --> 00:38:30.079
your body the ability to really function at those peak levels.

674
00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:33.199
I wanted to You just mentioned wim Hoff, James, and

675
00:38:33.239 --> 00:38:36.000
I just wanted to just come back to that for

676
00:38:36.039 --> 00:38:39.480
a second, because what I'm only fairly new to wim

677
00:38:39.519 --> 00:38:42.840
Hoff and his work and his ice and breath. I

678
00:38:42.880 --> 00:38:45.320
always just assumed he was the ice person, and somebody said, no, no,

679
00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:47.679
it's all about the breath and breathing. I just know

680
00:38:47.719 --> 00:38:50.280
it goes by the ice man. But the power of

681
00:38:50.280 --> 00:38:53.880
the breath that you also discovered to like you referred

682
00:38:53.880 --> 00:38:56.800
to the ancient Buddhist monks, I found this fascinating as well,

683
00:38:56.840 --> 00:38:59.880
and the power of using their breath to regulate their

684
00:39:00.039 --> 00:39:03.199
body temperature, which is what Wim does too. Right, he

685
00:39:03.280 --> 00:39:06.079
uses his breath to regulate his body temperature, which is

686
00:39:06.079 --> 00:39:08.400
how we can stay in the ice. Am I understanding

687
00:39:08.400 --> 00:39:08.920
that correctly?

688
00:39:09.320 --> 00:39:11.960
It's exactly right. The only way Wim is able to

689
00:39:11.960 --> 00:39:14.760
be Whim and do all of his amazing things, breaking

690
00:39:14.760 --> 00:39:19.000
twenty six world records is by harnessing the power of

691
00:39:19.079 --> 00:39:22.239
his breath. That's how he was able to sit in

692
00:39:22.400 --> 00:39:26.280
ice for almost two hours and not suffer from frostbite

693
00:39:26.360 --> 00:39:30.079
or hypothermia, and these tricks. A lot of us think

694
00:39:30.119 --> 00:39:33.159
that he's just some freak of nature. They have been

695
00:39:33.239 --> 00:39:39.199
practiced and studied and used for thousands and thousands of years.

696
00:39:39.760 --> 00:39:43.519
And the first scientific study of these people who were

697
00:39:43.559 --> 00:39:46.480
able to use their breath to heat their bodies up

698
00:39:46.880 --> 00:39:49.360
was actually done in the late nineteen seventies by a

699
00:39:49.400 --> 00:39:54.360
Harvard Medical School researcher named Herbert Benson. So again, we've

700
00:39:54.400 --> 00:39:56.719
known this stuff for a long time, and the ancients

701
00:39:56.719 --> 00:39:59.320
have known this stuff for a very long time. It

702
00:39:59.480 --> 00:40:02.960
just took i'm on as charismatic as Whim to get

703
00:40:02.960 --> 00:40:05.719
this out to the world. And I know Whim. I

704
00:40:05.760 --> 00:40:09.400
am a huge fan of what he's done. And I

705
00:40:09.440 --> 00:40:12.280
think it's so thrilling that so many, hundreds of thousands

706
00:40:12.320 --> 00:40:15.440
of people are now taking better control of their health

707
00:40:15.559 --> 00:40:16.159
with breath.

708
00:40:16.800 --> 00:40:19.039
It does seem like, as you said, so much of

709
00:40:19.119 --> 00:40:21.960
this has been known for so long, and it makes

710
00:40:21.960 --> 00:40:26.599
you wonder why we are only just understanding this better,

711
00:40:26.800 --> 00:40:28.639
you know, even in the science world. I mean, you know,

712
00:40:28.679 --> 00:40:30.960
like you say, there's been research done in the sixties

713
00:40:30.960 --> 00:40:33.920
and the seventies, and yet we're only all just becoming

714
00:40:33.960 --> 00:40:34.800
aware of it now.

715
00:40:35.840 --> 00:40:39.719
I think that this is how it works in our culture,

716
00:40:39.840 --> 00:40:42.800
for better or for worse. You know, things come and

717
00:40:42.840 --> 00:40:46.880
go and you don't get on a fast track to

718
00:40:46.960 --> 00:40:49.480
tenure digging up some old research. You get a fast

719
00:40:49.519 --> 00:40:53.320
track to tenure developing your new research in your new studies.

720
00:40:53.880 --> 00:40:56.400
I am a huge fan of Western medicine. I want

721
00:40:56.400 --> 00:40:58.840
to be very clear that this book is looking at breathing,

722
00:40:58.920 --> 00:41:02.440
but I be alive. Without Western medicine, most of us

723
00:41:02.480 --> 00:41:05.119
would be in pretty bad shape. But it's not a

724
00:41:05.119 --> 00:41:08.320
one way street. Health doesn't need to just you don't

725
00:41:08.360 --> 00:41:11.599
need to just pick one side the future in medicine.

726
00:41:11.639 --> 00:41:14.199
You can ask any doctor in one that studies this stuff.

727
00:41:14.280 --> 00:41:18.079
Is an integrative view of medicine. And that's why I

728
00:41:18.079 --> 00:41:21.920
think breathing is so important, because you can see within

729
00:41:22.039 --> 00:41:25.119
your body and brain within a few seconds of changing

730
00:41:25.159 --> 00:41:28.679
your breathing what a powerful impact that has. And just

731
00:41:28.760 --> 00:41:31.159
imagine what a few days of healthy breathing or a

732
00:41:31.199 --> 00:41:33.719
few months will do for you. And you can start

733
00:41:33.760 --> 00:41:38.840
to understand why people have reversed chronic illnesses that they

734
00:41:38.880 --> 00:41:43.760
were told were incurable, like asthma, like autoimmune diseases, by

735
00:41:43.800 --> 00:41:45.559
focusing and harnessing their breath.

736
00:41:45.639 --> 00:41:47.960
Would it be fair to say, James, to finish this up,

737
00:41:47.960 --> 00:41:53.280
that whether somebody's called to Whim's method or Kundolini or

738
00:41:53.519 --> 00:41:56.960
some other breathwork practitioner, you know that they should just

739
00:41:58.159 --> 00:42:01.679
venture out and just try and find what works for them.

740
00:42:02.039 --> 00:42:04.639
Absolutely different people are going to be coming into this

741
00:42:04.800 --> 00:42:08.719
with different needs. So someone who is an extreme athlete

742
00:42:08.840 --> 00:42:11.119
might really want to bump it up. Their lungs are

743
00:42:11.119 --> 00:42:14.000
already in good shape, right, maybe they're already nasal breathing.

744
00:42:14.280 --> 00:42:17.239
They can go straight to whim off breathing and really

745
00:42:17.280 --> 00:42:20.960
experience those benefits. For someone who has chronic anxieties or

746
00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:25.440
panic or asthma, I would start very very slowly. This

747
00:42:25.480 --> 00:42:28.360
does not have to be a competition with anyone. This

748
00:42:28.440 --> 00:42:33.679
is about adopting healthy habits, letting your body acclimate into

749
00:42:33.719 --> 00:42:36.719
a new way of being. And what I'd love about

750
00:42:36.760 --> 00:42:41.599
breathing so much is it's free and it's available to

751
00:42:41.719 --> 00:42:45.800
us at any time of the day or night. There's

752
00:42:45.840 --> 00:42:49.440
really no excuse not to focus on your breathing because

753
00:42:49.440 --> 00:42:51.480
you can do it while watching a movie on a couch,

754
00:42:51.480 --> 00:42:54.199
you can do it while jogging, while walking your dog, whatever.

755
00:42:54.840 --> 00:43:00.079
And again it's you can see the measurements of how

756
00:43:00.119 --> 00:43:05.000
this will change your physiology and sometimes your anatomy. Because

757
00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:07.599
we know that the pathway through which you breathe will

758
00:43:07.639 --> 00:43:10.880
affect how you look and how your face will grow,

759
00:43:10.960 --> 00:43:13.599
and other issues in the airway when you're young.

760
00:43:13.920 --> 00:43:18.039
I guess also in this whole area of wellness, people

761
00:43:18.039 --> 00:43:19.840
can sometimes feel like, oh, it's just one more thing.

762
00:43:19.880 --> 00:43:22.480
I've got to meditate and journal and you know, do

763
00:43:22.559 --> 00:43:25.119
my thirty minutes of exercise, and now I've got to

764
00:43:25.199 --> 00:43:28.079
think about how I breathe as well. Is there one

765
00:43:28.119 --> 00:43:31.880
small thing or one small change that people could just

766
00:43:32.159 --> 00:43:35.480
implement that's fairly simple. I like to call them kind

767
00:43:35.519 --> 00:43:38.559
of micro actions or micro commitments that people can just

768
00:43:38.599 --> 00:43:41.239
slowly introduce into their life without feeling like this is

769
00:43:41.280 --> 00:43:43.000
another thing that they have to go and study and

770
00:43:43.039 --> 00:43:45.159
explore and implement.

771
00:43:45.480 --> 00:43:48.440
Yeah, it does seem overwhelming. We've been talking about breathing.

772
00:43:48.800 --> 00:43:51.280
Whim off out that we've been talking about breathing slowly,

773
00:43:51.320 --> 00:43:55.360
breathing through the noose. I get it. But I would

774
00:43:55.440 --> 00:43:59.400
just look at the natural world and look at animals

775
00:43:59.480 --> 00:44:01.960
as as your guide. They don't have to think about

776
00:44:02.000 --> 00:44:05.159
their breathing because they're already breathing naturally and they don't

777
00:44:05.199 --> 00:44:09.360
lose that ability. So this is going to sound so boring.

778
00:44:09.480 --> 00:44:11.559
People want some secret I'm going to let you in

779
00:44:11.559 --> 00:44:15.119
know on on healthy breathing, but it's really not that complicated.

780
00:44:15.480 --> 00:44:17.639
Breathe through your nose is the very first thing you

781
00:44:17.679 --> 00:44:20.920
should do beyond becoming aware of your breathing. And this

782
00:44:21.000 --> 00:44:23.320
doesn't mean that you have to be paranoid about it

783
00:44:23.519 --> 00:44:26.360
or beat yourself up if you notice your self mouth breathing,

784
00:44:26.480 --> 00:44:29.079
just become aware of it and then at moments where

785
00:44:29.119 --> 00:44:32.679
you feel stressed. I learned this from doctor Andrew Huberman

786
00:44:33.079 --> 00:44:36.079
down at Stanford who's been studying this breathing method called

787
00:44:36.079 --> 00:44:39.119
a physiological sigh. This is something I've found to be

788
00:44:39.239 --> 00:44:42.800
very helpful. It's taking two breaths and then an exhale,

789
00:44:42.840 --> 00:44:48.840
so that's two breaths in the nose, and then just

790
00:44:48.880 --> 00:44:51.800
like deflating your body, you try to gain two breaths

791
00:44:51.880 --> 00:44:58.280
in one on top of the other. There is actually

792
00:44:58.320 --> 00:45:01.960
a subsect of no neurons in the brain responsible for

793
00:45:02.119 --> 00:45:06.280
sign and when you consciously do this, you trigger those

794
00:45:06.320 --> 00:45:10.599
neurons and when that happens, your whole body relaxes, which

795
00:45:10.679 --> 00:45:12.760
is why you see a lion or even a dog

796
00:45:15.440 --> 00:45:19.119
right before it goes to sleep. So this is the

797
00:45:19.360 --> 00:45:24.239
absolute quickest way of getting in control of your anxiety

798
00:45:24.599 --> 00:45:27.840
and balancing yourself out. There is a bunch of other

799
00:45:27.880 --> 00:45:30.840
stuff you can do after that, but start with these breaths,

800
00:45:31.320 --> 00:45:34.960
and then once you've reset, try to exhale longer than

801
00:45:35.000 --> 00:45:38.599
you're inhaling. Inhale to around three or four, exhaled to

802
00:45:38.679 --> 00:45:42.679
around six, and you will feel your nervous system calming down.

803
00:45:42.840 --> 00:45:46.159
So you can start with those tricks, and then after

804
00:45:46.199 --> 00:45:47.519
that you can build on those.

805
00:45:48.719 --> 00:45:53.239
That's amazing, James. This has been fascinating for me, I'm

806
00:45:53.239 --> 00:45:55.239
sure for the listeners as well. Thank you so much

807
00:45:55.320 --> 00:45:57.159
for your time and for your research.

808
00:45:58.079 --> 00:45:59.119
Thanks for having me.

809
00:46:02.039 --> 00:46:05.880
If this has peaked your interest in learning more about

810
00:46:05.920 --> 00:46:09.039
the power of breath, James actually lays out a whole

811
00:46:09.079 --> 00:46:11.800
lot of breathing practices in his book, along with all

812
00:46:11.840 --> 00:46:15.239
of the science behind them. You might also be interested

813
00:46:15.239 --> 00:46:16.719
to know that he wrote a book back in twenty

814
00:46:16.800 --> 00:46:19.760
fifteen called Deep, which is all about his experience of

815
00:46:19.920 --> 00:46:23.800
free diving and getting up close and personal with whales

816
00:46:23.840 --> 00:46:26.320
and sharks, and I can only imagine that that would

817
00:46:26.360 --> 00:46:28.440
be a great read too, if that is something that

818
00:46:28.519 --> 00:46:31.079
is of interest to you. His books are available in

819
00:46:31.119 --> 00:46:33.760
all good bookstores. You can find out more about James

820
00:46:33.760 --> 00:46:37.280
at his website mister James Nestor dot com. That's an

821
00:46:37.320 --> 00:46:42.119
e stoer. He's also on Instagram at mister James Nestor.

822
00:46:42.639 --> 00:46:46.440
Speaking of books, all three of my Crappy to Happy books,

823
00:46:46.480 --> 00:46:49.559
including my latest release, Crappy to Happy Love Who You're With,

824
00:46:50.039 --> 00:46:52.280
are now available in all Good bookstores, or you can

825
00:46:52.280 --> 00:46:55.320
get a signed copy from my website casdone dot com.

826
00:46:55.760 --> 00:46:58.360
Come and connect with me on Instagram at cast Done

827
00:46:58.519 --> 00:47:03.239
underscore xo, facebookcast Done dot xo. And if you enjoy

828
00:47:03.280 --> 00:47:05.800
the show, please do hit the subscribe button on Apple

829
00:47:05.840 --> 00:47:09.760
Podcasts hit the follow button on Spotify. That is how

830
00:47:09.800 --> 00:47:13.079
podcasts get heard by more people. So I would really

831
00:47:13.119 --> 00:47:16.239
appreciate your support and I look forward to catching you

832
00:47:16.280 --> 00:47:25.880
in the next episode of Crappy to Have You Listener,
James Nestor