Jan. 18, 2024
What are the downsides of mindfulness meditation?
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In this episode, Cass explores the topic of mindfulness meditation and when it might not have positive benefits. She delves into the adverse effects of mindfulness and the importance of trauma-informed meditation training. She highlights the need for research on adverse experiences and clarifying the definition of adverse experiences when it comes to mindfulness.Cass explores the difference between intensive meditation retreats and brief mindfulness interventions, emphasising the need for properly trained teachers and the importance of finding safety in the practice.
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Transcript
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This is Crappita Happy and I am your host, Cas Dunn.
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I'm a clinical and coaching psychologist. I'm mindfulness meditation teacher
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and of course author of the Crappita Happy books. In
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this show, I bring you conversations with interesting, inspiring, intelligent
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people who are experts in their field and who have
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something of value to share that will help you feel
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less crappy and more happy. Hello and welcome to another
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solo episode of the Crappita Happy Podcast. Today, I want
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to talk about mindfulness meditation. But before you switch channels
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because you don't want to hear about mindfulness meditation, what
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I want to talk today about is when is mindfulness
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meditation perhaps not the answer? When is it not good
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for you? And what are some of the circumstances in
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which it might be really helpful to consider what some
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of those adverse effects might be. Anybody who knows me
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knows that I'm a big fan of mindfulness meditation. And
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somebody asked me last week if I could share with
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her some resources demonstrating the benefits of mindfulness meditation. She
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asked me because she was trying to convince somebody else
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who was skeptical about the practice of mindfulness and meditation,
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And of course my first response was, of course, there's
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so much research. How could anybody be skeptical because I've
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been practicing and teaching it for so long, and I
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am really a huge fan and very familiar with what
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some of the studies are that have proven the benefits
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of mindfulness for physical and mental health and improving overall wellbeing.
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I'm obviously a huge fan. Just from the perspective of
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any kind of behavior change as a therapist and as
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a coach, I think if we want to make changes
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to our patterns of thinking and behavior, the ways that
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we kind of undo ourselves and sabotage ourselves, and the
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old patterns that we repeatedly fall into in our lives,
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I think we have to start with a level of
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mindful awareness, that is, being able to observe ourselves in
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the moment, to see what we're doing, to watch what's
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happening as it's happening with no judgment, to bring that
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element of curiosity to ourselves in order to be able
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to pause and choose a different response, to be able
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to recognize a pattern of behavior is unhelpful, and to
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be able to then choose a more wise response and
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to be able to do that with kindness and compassion.
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So even as a coach, I feel like having that
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base level, that foundation of mindfulness, that mindful awareness, the
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capacity to be able to observe ourselves and what's happening
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around us and within us without judgment is just key.
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And then when you add to that all of the
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reported benefits to your wellbeing, reducing relapse rates, depression, helping
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you manage stress, anxiety, improved communication in relationships, physical benefits,
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improved experience of pain, lengthening of telomeres like reducing signs
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of aging and illness, thicker gray matter, and your brain.
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I could go on and on and on. To me,
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it seems like a no brainer. Of course mindfulness meditation
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is good for you. But when I was asked this question,
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I thought, well, in the spirit of me being mindful,
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noticing my own automatic response the path that I go down,
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wanting to just say, of course, mindfulness is great, why
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wouldn't everybody be practicing mindfulness meditation, I thought, well, maybe
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I need to pause and check myself and have a
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look into what are some of the times or situations
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when maybe mindfulness meditation is not the right thing. What
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are potentially some of the adverse experiences that people have
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when they try to practice mindfulness meditation? And I think
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this also came about. I felt this was important because
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when I was supporting a friend of mine a while
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ago who was delivering a mindfulness teacher training, I was
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asked the question, what about if a student, for example,
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has experienced trauma, like, how do we be aware of
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people's trauma when my teaching mindfulness meditation? Bearing in mind
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that these people who were taking this teacher training are
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not mental health professionals, and so my response in that
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situation had been, I think we need to treat everything
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as trauma informed. We need to practice trauma informed everything.
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By that, I mean a significant proportion of the population
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has experienced some trauma. So my view is classrooms, workplaces, courses, classes,
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anybody we interact with, I believe we should all be
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practicing trauma informed behaviors. And so I guess my response was,
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there are certain things that you can do in a class,
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and the way that you manage a classroom situation if
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you're teaching a group of students and you don't know
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what they're history, is that you would do things in
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such a way as to be mindful that some people
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may have a traumatic background, empower people to make their
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own decisions about what they're comfortable with, what they're not,
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give people permission to participate, to not participate, et cetera,
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et cetera. But then afterwards I thought, well, maybe that
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wasn't really a full response, and maybe it is worth
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and I do believe now it is worth equipping people,
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particularly people teaching mindfulness and people who are practicing mindfulness,
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for them to have some awareness of what might happen
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when you're practicing mindfulness meditation if you have a history
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of trauma. And so that's what I mean also by
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a potential adverse experience or an adverse reaction to a
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mindfulness meditation. So with that little bit of context, I
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thought today I would just like to spend a bit
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of time explaining what some of the research has been
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because I did dig up some research which is looking
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at what the adverse reported effects potentially can be from
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mine meditation, and also just cover a little bit of
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this trauma stuff. So if you are looking at initiating
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a mindfulness meditation practice, if you're looking at taking a
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class learning mindfulness, if you are teaching mindfulness meditation, then
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what are some of the things that we all need
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to probably be a little bit more aware of, Because
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in my experience as a student for many years of
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mindfulness meditation, typically if you are not comfortable, if you're
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not having a good experience, if you're struggling with meditation,
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the answer always seems to be, sit with it, take
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it back to the cushion, observe, be curious, allow All
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feelings are welcome. All experience is a welcome observe without judgment.
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But sometimes that can be really difficult for people if
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the experience that they're having is deeply, deeply distressing because
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of a personal history, for example, of trauma. So let's
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just start with I hopped online and I started to
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look has there been research done into the adverse effects
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of mindfulness meditation, And recently there have been some analysis
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done meta analysis looking at a whole big bunch of
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mindfulness research studies and looking at what the adverse experiences
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were that were reported. By and large, the summary, like
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the net result of all of these studies was that
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mindfulness meditation does improve people's experience of depression, anxiety, stress,
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and improves the overall well being. That's a fact. Some
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of the analysis found that mindfulness didn't necessarily improve people's
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experience any more so than, for example, physical exercise or
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some other sort of mental health intervention. I think that's
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fair enough. I think you know, we already know that
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mindfulness can be as effective, for example, as CBT, So
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it's not like and different people respond differently to different
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kind of interventions. So I'm not sure that we're necessarily
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saying it is the one thing that is going to
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help improve your mental health. But it certainly is a
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thing and intervention a practice that is going to improve
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your mental health. The interesting thing was that many of
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these studies didn't actually measure adverse experiences. Obviously, when you
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do a research study, you're looking at, okay, well, I'm
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testing to see if this is going to be beneficial
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for people, you know, if it's going to improve their
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scores on depression scales or anxiety scales, improve their experience
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of mood, their wellbeing overall, et cetera, et cetera. But
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many of the studies were not actually looking for adverse experiences.
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They weren't asking people to report adverse experiences. So I
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guess that's an issue we probably need to be spending
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more time asking people to report adverse experiences. There have
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been some studies though, that show that people's scores on
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for example, a depression inventory are higher after they have
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completed a mindfulness intervention. So when I say mindfulness intervention,
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I'm talking about like when they do these studies, they
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will put people through like a four week course or
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an eight week course, where you go to class every
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week and you'll learn some mindfulness meditation skills, do some
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meditation in class, and then you go home and you
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practice each day and you get some instruction. So definitely,
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there have been some studies that have shown that people's
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scores are higher. There have been some other reports of
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people actually experiencing psychosis. So I read one particular case
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study of a man who had no mental health history
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who attended a the Passiona meditation program. Now this is
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a different thing. This is quite an intensive meditating all day,
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every day for a period of time. The partial courses
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are typically a ten day program. I've done one myself
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many years ago, but you can go for twenty days,
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thirty days, and this individual had attended two separate the
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Pasiona courses nine years apart, and after both of those experiences,
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the time that he spent in that intensive meditation, when
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he returned home, he had really paranoid delusions, thought his
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wife was having an affair, for people trying to kill him,
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thought his wife was trying to poison his food, stopped
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going to work, you know, really serious kind of psychotic episode.
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Needed to be medicated, and in the second instance, needed
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to be hospitalized. It's kind of a really different thing
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than what we're talking about with a brief mindfulness intervention,
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like an eight week course like I mentioned before. Those
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VI PASIONA programs are, like I said, intense. You're meditating
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from for example, four in the morning sometimes through until
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late at night. There is no contact with the outside world.
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These are the rules with these strict kind of a
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passion of courses. You don't have access to your phone,
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you're not supposed to speak to anybody, make eye contact
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with anybody. And for some people, and my understanding is
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that for the second program that he did, it was
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like a twenty day program, and it was by about
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day eighteen that they sent him home because he was
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getting aggressive and getting really paranoid, and so he had
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experienced sleep deprivation, that was fasting, he was only eating
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one meal a day. So I guess in that case,
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when you if you hear reports of that kind of
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adverse experience, that's quite a different scenario than what would
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be a typical mindfulness meditation course that the average person
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would would do to develop skills in mindfulness meditation. It
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is still really interesting and noteworthy, but I think what
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I have read is that they're not really sure did
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meditation cause psychosis or did were the other factors the fasting,
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the sleep deprivation, the sensory deprivation, And also is it
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that the meditation practice is putting stress on the individual
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which ultimately kind of induces this kind of a breakdown,
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this mental breakdown that happens in both cases. That guy,
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you know, he was hospitalized the second time around, he
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was medicated, and he made a full recovery by all accounts,
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And I guess the result of that that the upshot
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of all of that, the conclusion was that people are
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teaching mindfulness, they probably need to be more aware of
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potential adverse experienceperiences, and that mindfulness teachers need to be
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trained to be able to manage trained in mental health
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issues in case some of this comes up. But as
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a counter argument, I just wanted to make the point
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that it's really important to be clear about what you
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define as an adverse experience with mindfulness meditation, because if
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somebody reports that they feel more depressed, for example, if
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somebody reports that they feel more anxious, it could be
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argued that what mindfulness meditation is. The point of mindfulness
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meditation is to be more present with what is happening
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as it's happening, as opposed to distracting ourselves or engaging
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in unhelpful coping strategies. Unhelpful coping strategies are things that
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we do to manage feelings of discomfort, for example, drinking,
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online shopping, Facebook scrolling, compulsive busyness, just avoidance of anything
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that is particularly distressing or uncomfortable for us. Most of
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us spend a lot of our lives in avoidance, and
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the point of mindfulness meditation is to get present with
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what is actually happening in your life and in your world,
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in your emotional world, what is actually happening, and being
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able to sit with that. So, if somebody reports that
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they feel more depressed after they have practiced mindfulness meditation.
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It could well be that all mindfulness has done is
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remove the distraction, bring to their attention something that they've
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been very busy avoiding, which is not a bad thing.
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Like the point, once you're truthful, once you're honest, and
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once you can confront what is actually happening in your life,
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your unpleasant thoughts and feelings, well, then you take back
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the power to be able to make different decisions and
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make some choices about how you manage that that do
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not involve unhelpful, unhealthy hoping strategies that you might otherwise
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be engaging in. If somebody is talking about psychosis, we
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have to look at what else is going on. What
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are the circumstances in which this is occurring. Because practicing
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and sitting for fifteen minutes in meditation fifteen to thirty
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minutes and focusing on your breath, the idea that would
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trigger a psychotic episode is difficult to fathom, to be honest,
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unless there is something dormant that is there that is
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being uncovered. All I would say is that I think
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