Feb. 21, 2024

What Autism can teach us with Jodi Rodgers

What Autism can teach us with Jodi Rodgers
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What Autism can teach us with Jodi Rodgers
What Autism can teach us with Jodi Rodgers
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Season 11 Psychology & Neuroscience

Cass chats with Jodie Rogers, a counsellor, sexologist and the relationship coach featured in the hit series, "Love on the Spectrum". Jodi shares her journey of working with people with disabilities and the importance of access to sexuality education and relationship counselling. She discusses the challenges faced by autistic individuals in developing relationships particularly around trust and vulnerability. Jodie emphasises the shift in our understanding of neurodiversity, the evolution of language and identity and the power of storytelling in her brand new book, "Unique: What Autism can teach us about difference, connection and belonging".Connect with Jodi:www.birdsandbees.com.auwww.instagram.com/jodirodgers_Pre-order her book
Connect with Cass:www.crappytohappypod.comhello@crappytohappypod.com 
www.instagram.com/crappytohappypodwww.tiktok.com/crappytohappypod
Join the free 7-day Happiness Challenge:www.cassdunn.com/happiness

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Email: hello@crappytohappypod.com
www.crappytohappypod.com
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Transcript
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This is Crappita Happy and I am your host, cass Done.

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I'm a clinical and coaching psychologist.

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I'm mindfulness meditation teacher and of course author of the

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Crappita Happy books. In this show, I bring you conversations

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with interesting, inspiring, intelligent people who are experts in their

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field and who have something of value to share that

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will help you feel less crappy and more happy. Jodie

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Rodgers is a qualified sexologist, counselor and special education teacher

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with thirty years of experience in the industry. She established

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her private counseling practice Birds and Bees to provide relationship

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and sexuality counseling that is accessible for everyone. She is

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passionate that all people should have the right to access

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services that are inclusive of different.

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Communication and learning styles.

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You may know Jody as she was featured as the

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relationship counselor on the award winning TV show Love on

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the Spectrum, which is now available on Netflix. She has

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also just published her first book, which is called Unique

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If You Are in Australia or New Zealand and will

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be published with the title how to Find a four

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Leaf Clover If you are in the USA or the UK,

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Jody Rogers, such a pleasure to have you on the

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crap in a Happy podcast.

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Welcome.

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Oh, thank you so much for having me on, Jody.

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I would say that being featured on a top rating

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Netflix series and now writing a book are certainly career

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highlights for anybody.

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But first and foremost, you are a counselor.

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And a sexologist, specifically working with people with disabilities. That's

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your day job. So can you please share I would

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love to hear our guess a bit about your journey

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and what led you to doing this work.

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My career started in teaching, so I was a special

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education teacher and at that point, so in the nineteen eighties,

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late nineteen eighties, when I was working in a high

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school that was a segregated high school, and there was

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a really big focus on you know, employment after people

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finished school, or you know, daily living skills, and I

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just was really conscious that there was not a lot

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of talk about adult relationships and intimacy and sexuality, particularly

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for disability. So it was just something that was I

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was sort of always aware of. But then I started

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noticing just simple things cast like you know, I remember

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a student lost a parent while I was teaching, and

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there's no access to grief counseling for them. They were

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a person with an intellectual disability, and so there wasn't

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access to that. You know. I think when we talk

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about access for people with disabilities, we we forget that

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access isn't just about ramps. It's accessed information. And for me,

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having access to sexuality education and relationship counseling became fundamentally important.

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So I never planned it. I didn't wake up, you know,

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in my twenties going oh, yes, so I'm going to

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be a sexologist and relationship counselor. It wasn't like that.

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It just was, you know, life just led me along

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this path and I just sort of put my money

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with my mouth. It's basically got the qualifications to do

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that and set myself up in private practice, thinking maybe

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I'd give myself six months to see if it was

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a needed thing, and I just haven't looked back.

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Yeah.

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Wow, I love that that It's just a case of

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just following that curiosity and it eventually leading to where

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you are now.

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I think that's a great story.

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So Journey in the series Love on the Spectrum that

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focused specifically on people on the autism spectrum. But the

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work you do, I assume is broader than that. Or

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do you specifically work with people with autism?

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No, no, No, I work with any single person that

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may communicate differently, or learn differently, or have a difference

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in the way that they process their senses. So I

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work with with cognitive disability, with acquired brain injury, people

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with acquired physical disabilities, autistic people, any person that needs

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to have counseling and therapy modified to match their individual

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communication and learning needs.

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Yeah, and Jody specifically talking about relationships, you highlight some

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of this, you know obviously on the on the TV

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show Love on the Spectrum, which is obviously captivated people.

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But what are the some of the challenges that they face.

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What is the you know, the key work that you're

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doing with people in terms of relationships and sexuality.

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If we're talking specifically about autistic people, there's a lot

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of difficulty just in developing relationships for autistic people. And

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that's a huge generalization because we have to remember that

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autism presents very, very differently across the whole spectrum. But

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you know, some of the things we see as people

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might have a lot of social anxiety and have difficulties

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initiating relationships with other people, or they may have difficulty

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understanding the reciprocity of relationships back and forth that we

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all have to do. In relationships, people can have very specifically,

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you know, specific expectations of other people, and as we know,

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expectations are really complex in relationships and just communication. Like

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when you think about it, intimate romantic relationships, and we

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talk intimacy, we're really talking about not just physical intimacy,

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but emotional intimacy. The capacity to be highly vulnerable another

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person takes a lot of trust, and for many autistic

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people that's quite difficult to develop a level of trust

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with another person where they feel they can really be

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their authentic self.

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And it's so necessary, you know.

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That's the thing that's been highlighted, I think is that

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we relationships and belonging and connection is a fundamental human need.

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And that's the work you're doing, isn't it. It's like

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it is a human right, you know, it should be

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accessible to everybody, regardless of differences. I think that's what's

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really been highlighted in the TV series. It's just done

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so I feel I'd love to hear your thoughts, but

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it has done such a good job of portraying the

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humanity you know of these people are no different from

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the rest of us.

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They want the same things that we want.

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I think that is one of the most remarkable things

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that came out of the series Cass because when at

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first aired, so many people were saying, but I experienced that.

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You know, I am anxious and I go on day

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or oh, I desperately want a boyfriend or a girlfriend

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or a partner. I think that people looked at autism

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as being something so removed from themselves, and I think

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the relatability of the show actually saying, hang on, every

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single person wants this. And it may not be that

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every single person wants a life partner, but every single

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person needs to have connection with other people. We all

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need it and we do it in very very different ways.

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But I think that that's where a lot of the

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success from the show came from, because people are just

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sitting in their lounge room all of a sudden went

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oh right, I'll get it, you know. I just it

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allowed people open people's eyes up to autism. But I

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think it opened people's eyes up to just we're all

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pretty similar. We're all seeking that same thing exactly.

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And I think the thing that really struck me to was,

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I know you said about how it can be really

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difficult to be vulnerable and have that trust. But I

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just loved some of the sheer honesty, like the no

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filter yes with some of the people on the show,

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with on the autism spectrum, like just it's kind of

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refreshing to have that level of truth being expressed because

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the rest of us are all just you know, bloody

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trying to pretend or something put on a show, and

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they're just like, no, this is this is how it is,

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and this is how I feel.

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I thought. I just loved it. I feel like there

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should be more.

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It's one of the it's one of the best things, well,

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one of the great things. I mean, I've learned many,

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many things from a lifetime hanging out with autistic people.

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But the autistic people just say it as it is,

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and neurotypical people we do a lot of dancing around

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each other. There's social ants around each other, and autistic

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people are very good at just saying it exactly as

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it is because they don't really get the social nuance

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of why we do that.

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You know.

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Sometimes I've had clients come to it. They're perplexed, you say.

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They'll say, but if you don't like somebody, why don't

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you just say you don't like somebody? Or why do

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people go to each other? Why would people just say

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it was nice to meet you, Sorry, no thanks. You know,

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they just don't get the way that we do this

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crazy social dance around each other.

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Yeah, I think. And there's a big difference.

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Yeah, And there's a big difference in saying being honest

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the way that you could see autistic people being honest

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with what they're saying and being vulnerable. Being vulnerable is

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when you truly open yourself up emotionally to somebody else.

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There's a big difference in those two things. But the

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honesty is phenomenal and it's but also sometimes can be

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honest in a way that can make things difficult. So

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you know, if you went on a first date and

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the first thing you said to somebody was, oh, you've

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got a massive pimple on your chin, or you know,

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your breast smells having you brush your teeth, you know,

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there's also honesty that can be we know sometimes not

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to say the things inside of our hairs. Yes, yes,

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So that could cause some difficulties loyal for people.

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So how do you go about teaching that to somebody?

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Jody like in your work, like, how do you teach

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somebody who's just like, well.

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What wouldn't you just say that?

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How to draw that line and make that distinction between

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what's okay to say out loud and what's not.

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The way I explained sometimes to people is that I

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feel often in my work on a translator. So just

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like if somebody was a hearing person, but they were

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fluent in sign language, and then they are able to

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translate from a deaf person to a hearing person, they're

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the middle person. I feel that's a little bit like

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my job, and a lot of my work is actually

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translating why neurotypical people do the things they do, or

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what a neurotypical person will expect in terms of our

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body language and our gestures and our communication, what our

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expectations are, And a lot of my work is translating

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that for an autistic person. So then they can actually go, oh,

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I get it. They might go why that's weird, but

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it's sort of a back and forth translation. Yeah. Really,

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I often feel like that's my job is sort of

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supporting an autistic person to understand a neurotypical person's way

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of moving through the world, and then on the other hand,

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supporting neurotypical people to understand the autistic people are just

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doing it a little bit differently.

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Obviously, this whole landscape has changed significantly in the time

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that you've been working in this field, Jody, I mean definitely,

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even now, it feels like, I know it's not the case,

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but it feels like almost every other person, particularly adult

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an adult women being diagnosed and that with some sort

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of neurodiversity, and that being almost like revelationary, like people

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suddenly their whole life kind of makes sense. I guess,

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what are some of the shifts and the changes that

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you've seen over the course of twenty is it twenty

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years thirty?

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Yeah, you know, and it's not even botop. Well, we've

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got to remember that, you know this, we're pretty dumb

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when it comes to our neurology. We're really really beginning

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to understand how our minds were. And so when I

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first started in this field, any person that got a

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diagnosis with autism had to also have an intellectual disability. Wow.

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So to really back then in the eighties and nineties.

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It was you know, if you had a physical disability

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or you had an intellectual disability, but we really weren't

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looking at people's social you know, the way they interacted socially,

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or how people's regulated their emotions or we didn't really

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look at that. And so what's happened during the course

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of my lifetime in this area is that we've actually

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started going, oh, hang on, people do interact in different ways,

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or they process things differently, or they have a specific

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need for saneness, or so it's shifted in that way.

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I think we've got to we've began to understand much

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more about how the human mind actually works, which is brilliant.

230
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I personally think that at some point, probably not in

231
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my lifetime, but at some point we may not actually

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use the language that we use now of autism or

233
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or you know, this person's got obsessive compulsive disorder, or

234
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this person has you know this or this. I think

235
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that we'll in some point in our future, they'll probably

236
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just scan our brains and they'll say, oh, cass, yes,

237
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you prefer to do things in this way. You're a

238
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little bit rigid in your thinking in this or you know,

239
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your emotional regulation is in this way or you know,

240
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I think that they will see that neurodivergence is they'll

241
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look at it differently. I just believe it will be

242
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looked at it in a very very different way. And

243
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I think particularly because diagnostically, so it was really only

244
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in the nineteen nineties that we started saying, oh, hang on,

245
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you can be autistic but not have an intellectual disability.

246
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So that gave a massive shift in diagnosis because then

247
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we had at that point was called Aspergers, which is

248
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now just called autism level one. But we started rethinking

249
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that you could be you know, of average intelligence to

250
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extremely bright, but you could also be autistic. So a

251
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lot of people don't know that in Australia we actually

252
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only started thinking about autism high function that that sort

253
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of no Asperger's level one autism is being a disability

254
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in two thousand and five. So before that people couldn't

255
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even access anything that was available. And then the shifts

256
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happened again. So I love it. I love watching the

257
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shifts happen. And one of the shifts that has been

258
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very conscious of that it was always it was always

259
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kind of boys and they used to say, you know,

260
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it was four to one boys. That was the old

261
00:15:42.159 --> 00:15:44.360
scale that they used to talk about, But that was

262
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because diagnostically, boys were presenting much more easily. You know,

263
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it would be the boy in school who just couldn't sit,

264
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steal or and I'm talking about children that didn't have

265
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an intellectual disability. So then, because we were only looking

266
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at the presentation of what a boy would do a

267
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man would do. But now we're going to hang on,

268
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women actually do this differently. So it's just been another

269
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shift in understanding our neurology and how our neurology works. Yeah.

270
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So yeah, but it does sound like, you know, people

271
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say that, but everybody's got autism. No, not everybody has autism.

272
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It's just that we're starting to understand human neurology way

273
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better than we ever did, and we will continue to

274
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understand human neurology every single month, every year. We'll get

275
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a better understanding of ourselves.

276
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Yeah.

277
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It's on a bit of a path of the moment,

278
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isn't it, where there's this balance between people who really

279
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value having that understanding of oh, this is why I've

280
00:16:55.000 --> 00:16:57.440
always struggled with this, or this is why I've always

281
00:16:58.639 --> 00:17:01.159
done things this particular way. It makes so much sense

282
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balanced against the rest of the population going well, I'm

283
00:17:05.079 --> 00:17:06.640
a bit like that too, like what have we all

284
00:17:06.680 --> 00:17:09.039
got ADHD and kind of trivializing it.

285
00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:13.480
Yeah. Yeah, And I think that that's the complexity because

286
00:17:13.720 --> 00:17:16.920
people say, oh, everybody's a little bit on the spectrum.

287
00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:20.559
No we're not. It's an autism spectrum, and you have

288
00:17:20.759 --> 00:17:23.799
to present, you know, it has to be that in

289
00:17:23.839 --> 00:17:26.640
the areas that they're looking at diagnostically, which at the

290
00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:30.039
moment they look at seven different areas, and you have

291
00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:34.440
to struggle, you have to have difficulty, and it's got

292
00:17:34.480 --> 00:17:39.200
to be clinical. It can't be you know, I'm disorganized.

293
00:17:39.240 --> 00:17:41.640
Oh yeah, well that's a little bit autistic. No, it's

294
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not a little bit autistic. I'm just disorganized. You know,

295
00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:49.279
there is specific things. If you are autistic, you are

296
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struggling in your day to day world. You are struggling

297
00:17:53.720 --> 00:17:57.480
and really needs aught and you really need help. And

298
00:17:57.559 --> 00:18:00.559
it may be that you're struggling in your relationships. It

299
00:18:00.680 --> 00:18:03.680
may be that you're struggling and having employment. It may

300
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be that you're struggling because you can't actually be out

301
00:18:07.319 --> 00:18:10.960
in a CRAYD or process. You know, sensory information is

302
00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:14.880
just overwhelming. But it's not. Everybody's a little bit on

303
00:18:14.920 --> 00:18:18.559
the spectrum. We're not. We're all we're all on the

304
00:18:18.680 --> 00:18:22.119
human spectrum. We're all different and we all do things differently,

305
00:18:22.200 --> 00:18:24.000
but we're definitely not all autistic.

306
00:18:24.319 --> 00:18:27.519
I think, you know, similarly with ADHD, I'm and disorganized,

307
00:18:27.559 --> 00:18:29.599
I'm one focused. What does that mean I've got ADHD.

308
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It's the same sort of thing, isn't it. And I

309
00:18:31.400 --> 00:18:34.319
feel like sometimes those people that have done such a

310
00:18:34.359 --> 00:18:37.839
stellar job of masking, you know, just in order to

311
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fit in for so long, that people sometimes don't realize

312
00:18:43.000 --> 00:18:44.880
how much they've been struggling.

313
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And I don't think and they don't and we don't. Yeah,

314
00:18:48.279 --> 00:18:50.599
one hundred percent of growth, your cass. And I think

315
00:18:50.680 --> 00:18:54.160
that's when somebody makes a flippant comment like that, I say,

316
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do you know the dark side of this? Do you

317
00:18:56.759 --> 00:19:00.440
know the hardship of having a d HD?

318
00:19:01.519 --> 00:19:01.759
You know?

319
00:19:01.960 --> 00:19:05.359
Did you struggle in school? Did you were you so

320
00:19:05.519 --> 00:19:08.119
hyper focused in one area that the rest of your

321
00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:11.519
life slipped away into chaos? You know? Do you understand

322
00:19:11.559 --> 00:19:14.799
that this isn't just something we can talk about by

323
00:19:14.839 --> 00:19:17.920
saying I'm a bit disorganized or I get easily distracted.

324
00:19:18.200 --> 00:19:22.039
That is not Adhd. It's night, and so I think

325
00:19:22.039 --> 00:19:24.559
we have to remember it's beautiful. I love the fact

326
00:19:24.559 --> 00:19:28.519
that we've got communities of people who are talking about

327
00:19:28.599 --> 00:19:31.759
autism with deep pride, and I love that because it's

328
00:19:31.759 --> 00:19:35.519
about celebrating our differences. But we also have to remember

329
00:19:36.200 --> 00:19:38.839
that before people can speak with pride, there has to

330
00:19:38.920 --> 00:19:41.759
be a lot of courage and bravery because there has

331
00:19:41.839 --> 00:19:46.440
been many, many, many years of those people where they

332
00:19:46.440 --> 00:19:52.039
have been overlooked and bullied and isolated. So it's very

333
00:19:52.039 --> 00:19:53.960
courageous the people speaking of Now.

334
00:19:54.480 --> 00:19:57.880
Yeah, when you say that the things are shifting in

335
00:19:57.920 --> 00:20:01.839
our awareness is growing, and as it will, I agree

336
00:20:01.839 --> 00:20:03.519
with you, like it seems to just be there's this

337
00:20:03.640 --> 00:20:06.960
explosion at the moment and it'll continue in our understanding

338
00:20:08.079 --> 00:20:10.880
of these differences. How do you feel about the term

339
00:20:10.920 --> 00:20:13.720
disability versus difference because I know that some people will

340
00:20:13.759 --> 00:20:16.759
even say, well, why do we have to consider that

341
00:20:16.799 --> 00:20:22.400
somebody whose brain operates this way is disabled versus well,

342
00:20:22.440 --> 00:20:24.359
they just process information differently.

343
00:20:24.680 --> 00:20:25.759
What's your thoughts on.

344
00:20:25.680 --> 00:20:30.039
That language is so complex because I have seen language

345
00:20:30.359 --> 00:20:34.839
change dramatically. So you know, at one point when we

346
00:20:35.000 --> 00:20:38.119
always said, oh, yeah, they're a disabled person and then

347
00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:40.960
it was there a person with a disability, and now

348
00:20:41.359 --> 00:20:45.720
it's shifting again to say no disabled person because people

349
00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:48.720
will take pride in saying, well, that's part of my identity.

350
00:20:49.480 --> 00:20:53.720
You know, I think we're all different. So when we

351
00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:57.319
talk about people with differences, well, there's eight billion placibusts,

352
00:20:57.319 --> 00:21:00.680
so we're all different, and it is a different But

353
00:21:00.799 --> 00:21:03.720
I think we have to the word disability when it

354
00:21:03.880 --> 00:21:08.559
is it is that person's identity. Then it's basically saying

355
00:21:09.680 --> 00:21:13.960
it's not that they have the disability, it's that society

356
00:21:14.599 --> 00:21:19.400
has created the disability because of their difference from the majority.

357
00:21:20.920 --> 00:21:26.119
But I'm very clued into you know, I'm a therapist

358
00:21:26.200 --> 00:21:29.240
cast so every single individual that sits in front of

359
00:21:29.279 --> 00:21:34.000
me tells me who they are, and so their identity,

360
00:21:34.000 --> 00:21:37.599
whether it's their gender identity or the sexual orientation, or

361
00:21:37.640 --> 00:21:40.279
the way they think about the world, or how they

362
00:21:40.559 --> 00:21:44.960
choose to call themselves, whether they call themselves a person

363
00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:49.920
with a disability or a disabled person, whatever language they

364
00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:53.240
want to use, I will use that language too, because

365
00:21:54.039 --> 00:21:56.359
that it's not up to me to tell another person

366
00:21:56.920 --> 00:22:00.640
what words fit them. It's up to the person to

367
00:22:00.680 --> 00:22:04.240
tell me about words fit. Then yeah, that probably didn't

368
00:22:04.279 --> 00:22:05.039
answer your question.

369
00:22:05.759 --> 00:22:07.880
No, I think that's fair. I think that's fair. I think,

370
00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:10.400
you know, following somebody's lead is the important thing. I

371
00:22:10.480 --> 00:22:13.039
think that we can get tripped up, you know, we

372
00:22:13.079 --> 00:22:15.559
can get afraid to say the wrong thing, or who

373
00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:17.279
are we going to a fan? And I think that's

374
00:22:17.319 --> 00:22:21.400
a good that's a good point. You know, Well, depending

375
00:22:21.400 --> 00:22:24.480
on who you're talking to, then maybe you know, follow

376
00:22:24.519 --> 00:22:26.480
their lead in terms of the language that they use.

377
00:22:26.559 --> 00:22:28.640
I just know that I did a session, and I'm

378
00:22:28.640 --> 00:22:31.000
not an expert on neuro diversity, but I was asked

379
00:22:31.000 --> 00:22:33.799
to run a just a one hour session just covering

380
00:22:33.839 --> 00:22:38.440
some of these differences in a workplace, and there was

381
00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:44.440
somebody there who who really had an opinion about just

382
00:22:44.519 --> 00:22:47.000
the use of the term just even calling these things

383
00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:52.799
disabilities or disorders, you know, as opposed to just understanding

384
00:22:52.839 --> 00:22:55.680
these things as you know, just a different way of processing.

385
00:22:55.720 --> 00:22:58.480
And I thought, yeah, I get that, But also there's

386
00:22:58.480 --> 00:23:00.960
a balance, isn't There were also other people need to

387
00:23:01.000 --> 00:23:03.200
understand that this is a challenge and this is a

388
00:23:03.200 --> 00:23:06.680
struggle for whatever reason, and that sometimes it allowances and

389
00:23:06.680 --> 00:23:09.960
accommodations might need to be made. And maybe that is

390
00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:13.720
because we've always done it badly, catering for the neurotypical.

391
00:23:14.759 --> 00:23:15.359
But yeah, the.

392
00:23:15.400 --> 00:23:27.039
Present day, that's still the reality.

393
00:23:33.119 --> 00:23:37.119
And it is very, very difficult because for cultural shift

394
00:23:37.160 --> 00:23:42.920
to happen, it takes time, and it takes people listening,

395
00:23:43.279 --> 00:23:45.880
and then it takes the shift of language. So you know,

396
00:23:45.920 --> 00:23:48.920
I'm a sexologist who's also been a sexologist for quite

397
00:23:48.960 --> 00:23:53.079
a while, and so I really I had to go

398
00:23:53.160 --> 00:23:57.880
through and learn all about pronouns and that the huge,

399
00:23:58.119 --> 00:24:04.319
huge spectrum of gender identity and you know, the sexuality identity.

400
00:24:04.599 --> 00:24:07.640
That took me time. And it wasn't saying or was

401
00:24:07.640 --> 00:24:10.920
somebody going, oh no, It just took me time because

402
00:24:11.640 --> 00:24:15.480
I was going through a cultural shift and it takes

403
00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:18.839
sometimes it takes generations for cultural shift to happen and

404
00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:21.759
language to shift and change. And it also depends on

405
00:24:21.880 --> 00:24:26.559
environments o cas. So if you walk into a medical

406
00:24:26.599 --> 00:24:29.880
facility and you're talking to people who are working within

407
00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:34.880
psychiatry and psychiatrists, then they're still working under a medical

408
00:24:34.920 --> 00:24:38.799
system with disorder is part of the language of the

409
00:24:38.880 --> 00:24:42.680
medical language. If you're talking about an area where you're

410
00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:46.720
thinking that's social you know, the social constructive disability, then

411
00:24:46.759 --> 00:24:49.079
people would not use the word disorder because they'd say

412
00:24:49.119 --> 00:24:53.200
that's medical. They'd use disability. If you are hanging out

413
00:24:53.200 --> 00:24:55.559
with my mates down the street, then I would never

414
00:24:55.680 --> 00:24:59.039
even say disability because it's not even part of what

415
00:24:59.640 --> 00:25:03.039
they we are in my lifetime. So it also depends

416
00:25:03.079 --> 00:25:07.759
on the environment you're in. As we know anywhere on

417
00:25:07.799 --> 00:25:10.000
the planet, where you go into a new culture, there's

418
00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:12.759
a different language, and we can sometimes get it wrong.

419
00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:16.519
But what we need to do is help people. You know,

420
00:25:16.680 --> 00:25:20.400
I quite bagger up all the time, constantly baggering up,

421
00:25:20.440 --> 00:25:24.440
and so what I love best is when somebody says, oh, no,

422
00:25:24.599 --> 00:25:27.640
you don't say that, Jody. Oh, I have come, but

423
00:25:27.720 --> 00:25:32.279
not to chastise me. I don't want somebody to chastise

424
00:25:32.319 --> 00:25:34.240
me when I get it wrong. I want them to

425
00:25:34.279 --> 00:25:37.759
help me understand so that then I can get it right.

426
00:25:38.440 --> 00:25:39.880
And I think we just need to do that for

427
00:25:39.920 --> 00:25:40.480
one another.

428
00:25:41.240 --> 00:25:42.720
Yeah, yeah, I like that.

429
00:25:43.160 --> 00:25:43.440
Jody.

430
00:25:43.880 --> 00:25:49.599
You've just published your first book, called You Again. I've

431
00:25:49.640 --> 00:25:52.119
started to read it. I'm loving it. I haven't finished

432
00:25:52.160 --> 00:25:52.440
it yet.

433
00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:54.839
But what I love also about your book is the

434
00:25:54.960 --> 00:25:57.920
same thing we were talking about earlier, in that these

435
00:25:58.079 --> 00:26:02.240
stories that you share and how they so beautifully express

436
00:26:02.440 --> 00:26:05.359
that these people that we call disabled are not that

437
00:26:05.440 --> 00:26:07.839
much different to the rest of us. You've done such

438
00:26:07.839 --> 00:26:10.440
a beautiful job. Can you tell me thinks about the

439
00:26:10.440 --> 00:26:12.720
book and what inspired what inspired the book?

440
00:26:12.880 --> 00:26:15.319
Well, it's funny, you know, because I had never thought

441
00:26:15.319 --> 00:26:18.720
about being a writer. It just wasn't in my you know,

442
00:26:18.759 --> 00:26:22.319
I've done a lot of academic writing because of the qualifications,

443
00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:26.920
but I never thought I write a book because I

444
00:26:26.960 --> 00:26:29.480
love people, and in my job, I hang out with

445
00:26:29.559 --> 00:26:32.880
people all day long, so I never really to me,

446
00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:36.559
writers spend a lot of time by themselves, being deep

447
00:26:36.559 --> 00:26:40.119
in their own heads. But I have always been a

448
00:26:40.160 --> 00:26:44.720
storyteller always, and I use stories. I use stories when

449
00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:48.680
I'm training, I use stories with my family, I use

450
00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:51.880
stories with my friends, I use stories if I'm running workshops,

451
00:26:52.160 --> 00:26:55.400
and I use stories with clients. And I use story

452
00:26:55.440 --> 00:26:59.519
all the time to try and help people have greater

453
00:26:59.599 --> 00:27:02.519
understand and greater empathy for other people. So if I'm

454
00:27:02.519 --> 00:27:06.279
in a workshop and somebody says, oh what about this Jodie,

455
00:27:06.480 --> 00:27:08.839
a whole workshop five hours could be taken up with

456
00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:11.720
me going, well, let me just tell you a story

457
00:27:11.759 --> 00:27:16.440
about Because I think story allows us to say Okay,

458
00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:21.119
I can feel it too, and so really the book,

459
00:27:21.799 --> 00:27:24.160
that's what I really wanted the book to do. I

460
00:27:24.200 --> 00:27:26.920
wanted to take all of these stories that were in

461
00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:31.359
my head and I wanted to get them out as

462
00:27:31.359 --> 00:27:35.799
a way of saying, hang on, when you see somebody

463
00:27:35.920 --> 00:27:39.519
do something that is so different, when it makes you ponder,

464
00:27:39.640 --> 00:27:43.119
or it makes you frustrated or agitated, or you're just thinking,

465
00:27:43.480 --> 00:27:46.000
hell is going on here? I just wanted to tell

466
00:27:46.039 --> 00:27:48.400
us some stories to go. Let me give you a

467
00:27:48.440 --> 00:27:50.720
little bit of insight into what you may be seeing,

468
00:27:50.720 --> 00:27:54.559
and it's not so dissimilar to something you may have experienced.

469
00:27:55.279 --> 00:27:57.759
And that's really what I was hoping to do. Cash.

470
00:27:57.839 --> 00:28:00.960
Oh, well, you've done it brilliantly, and you you are

471
00:28:01.000 --> 00:28:04.440
a fabulous storyteller, but a great writer. I mean it's

472
00:28:04.720 --> 00:28:05.960
really well written.

473
00:28:06.279 --> 00:28:08.240
It really is, yeah.

474
00:28:07.799 --> 00:28:11.400
The way to you And I was reading it going.

475
00:28:11.359 --> 00:28:14.960
Ah, oh yeah, I can see myself in that.

476
00:28:15.119 --> 00:28:18.319
You just obviously it's up to the people listening to

477
00:28:18.359 --> 00:28:19.559
go and get the book to read it, but I

478
00:28:19.559 --> 00:28:22.720
would just say that it's really well done. The way

479
00:28:22.720 --> 00:28:25.759
that you present an individual with some sort of difference

480
00:28:25.839 --> 00:28:28.079
or some sort of behavior that you might be going well,

481
00:28:28.119 --> 00:28:28.799
what the hell's that?

482
00:28:29.680 --> 00:28:32.440
Like you just said, and then you as you keep reading,

483
00:28:32.480 --> 00:28:34.400
you go, oh, actually, yeah, I do that.

484
00:28:35.200 --> 00:28:36.559
I might do it in a different.

485
00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:38.599
Way, but I do that.

486
00:28:38.920 --> 00:28:40.720
I get put off by that in that sort of

487
00:28:40.759 --> 00:28:44.279
a situation, or you know, I can see myself in that,

488
00:28:44.400 --> 00:28:47.200
and it just creates so much more empathy and just

489
00:28:47.359 --> 00:28:51.480
understanding when you can see that there's actually quite a

490
00:28:51.480 --> 00:28:52.440
lot of similarity.

491
00:28:53.200 --> 00:28:56.599
Yeah. Yeah, And it's been incredible for me because I

492
00:28:56.640 --> 00:28:58.960
think a lot of the book I'm also trying to

493
00:28:59.039 --> 00:29:04.480
say that it's what autistic people have taught me about

494
00:29:04.519 --> 00:29:08.240
everybody else. So it's really interesting in my lifetime. Now

495
00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:11.359
I can see, you know, I can be with the

496
00:29:11.400 --> 00:29:15.599
neurotypical person and they'll say, no, you've got to stack

497
00:29:15.640 --> 00:29:18.240
the dishwasher like this, and be really, you know, no,

498
00:29:18.359 --> 00:29:19.799
it has to be done like this. If you do

499
00:29:19.839 --> 00:29:23.039
it another way where that could be frustrating to other people,

500
00:29:23.079 --> 00:29:25.400
I just look at them and able to say, oh, yeah,

501
00:29:25.400 --> 00:29:29.359
that's the little system. There's a reason that they believe

502
00:29:29.640 --> 00:29:32.000
that the dishwasher has to be stack off. That may

503
00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:35.799
not be my idea, but it's theirs. Autistic people have

504
00:29:35.920 --> 00:29:40.200
systems all the time, all the time, but they may

505
00:29:40.200 --> 00:29:43.279
not have the capacity to communicate to say no, I

506
00:29:43.359 --> 00:29:48.400
need my dishwasher stacked like this. And you know, we're all, yeah,

507
00:29:48.440 --> 00:29:53.799
we're all pretty interesting individuals. We're all pretty interesting in

508
00:29:53.920 --> 00:29:56.119
that way. But you know, when I was asked to

509
00:29:56.160 --> 00:30:01.480
write the book, it was really interesting that I I thought, somebody,

510
00:30:01.720 --> 00:30:04.240
you know, said why don't you write these stories down?

511
00:30:04.279 --> 00:30:06.599
And originally I thought, oh, I have to write a guidebook.

512
00:30:07.119 --> 00:30:09.319
You know, am I writing a guidebook to this? And

513
00:30:09.359 --> 00:30:12.319
then it quickly came out that there was two things. One,

514
00:30:13.000 --> 00:30:16.400
I can't tell another person's story. I'm not an autistic person,

515
00:30:16.480 --> 00:30:21.160
So I would never ever tell an autistic person story.

516
00:30:21.160 --> 00:30:23.759
That's their story to tell. All I could tell is

517
00:30:23.799 --> 00:30:29.200
the story of what a lifetime listening to people who

518
00:30:30.319 --> 00:30:32.960
see the world in a different way and communicate in

519
00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:35.559
a different way. What a lifetime of that has actually

520
00:30:35.599 --> 00:30:40.880
taught me. That's that's what it's really about. And then

521
00:30:40.960 --> 00:30:45.359
that stories came out really pretty quickly, pretty fast, and

522
00:30:45.400 --> 00:30:49.640
fury this, which was interesting as well. Yeah, but writing

523
00:30:49.720 --> 00:30:53.079
was not fun for me, cast isn't it. Na. There

524
00:30:53.119 --> 00:30:57.039
was moments that there was moments where I'd be like, oh, yeah,

525
00:30:57.119 --> 00:30:59.759
I'm so brilliant at this, but that would be brief.

526
00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:04.640
And then, you know what I loved, probably most about

527
00:31:04.640 --> 00:31:07.880
the whole process was the I was able to be reflective.

528
00:31:08.440 --> 00:31:11.200
I was able to go, oh, remember when that happened.

529
00:31:11.319 --> 00:31:13.880
You know, it gave me a lot of reflection, but

530
00:31:14.480 --> 00:31:19.200
I found it quite difficult. I never ever stopped seeing

531
00:31:19.240 --> 00:31:21.960
clients the whole time I wrote, because I needed them.

532
00:31:22.279 --> 00:31:24.920
I needed them, and that was something else. I realized

533
00:31:25.119 --> 00:31:30.279
how much my happiness comes from hanging out with people,

534
00:31:30.359 --> 00:31:33.400
and if it's just me and a computer or me

535
00:31:33.519 --> 00:31:36.279
and a bit of paper and a pen. I love

536
00:31:36.359 --> 00:31:39.720
the process, but it's not where I'll get my joy from.

537
00:31:40.039 --> 00:31:43.279
So I'm not a natural writer. I'm a good storyteller,

538
00:31:43.319 --> 00:31:44.720
but I'm not a natural writer.

539
00:31:44.920 --> 00:31:46.720
Well, you've done a really good job.

540
00:31:46.799 --> 00:31:50.359
Let me just tell you you've probably heard that already.

541
00:31:50.599 --> 00:31:53.119
I'm just starting to have people read it. I'm just

542
00:31:53.160 --> 00:31:56.799
starting to get feed back from people who've read it,

543
00:31:56.839 --> 00:31:59.480
and the things that people say to me, I'm like,

544
00:32:00.039 --> 00:32:02.240
that's not even what I would have thought. Like a guy.

545
00:32:02.799 --> 00:32:04.920
There's a story at the very very beginning of the

546
00:32:04.920 --> 00:32:09.599
book about the first person I ever met with. You know,

547
00:32:09.720 --> 00:32:12.359
she was a young autistic girl. I was only eighteen,

548
00:32:12.519 --> 00:32:15.359
she was six, and it's set. The experience we had

549
00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:18.279
was in a swimming pool. And a person I met

550
00:32:18.359 --> 00:32:21.839
just this week said, when you wrote the line about

551
00:32:21.839 --> 00:32:26.359
the chlorine burning your nostrils, that I just was in

552
00:32:26.400 --> 00:32:29.359
that pool with you, and it's something that I was.

553
00:32:29.480 --> 00:32:32.200
It's so funny because I hadn't even thought that that.

554
00:32:32.480 --> 00:32:35.279
I'd never even thought about any of those parts. That

555
00:32:35.319 --> 00:32:38.039
I was trying really to get people in the picture

556
00:32:38.920 --> 00:32:40.960
with me as well with us.

557
00:32:40.960 --> 00:32:43.480
Interesting, interesting because I did too. I was right there

558
00:32:43.480 --> 00:32:45.640
in that pool. I could feel it. I could feel

559
00:32:46.079 --> 00:32:49.039
the heat of it, I could smell it. So that's

560
00:32:49.119 --> 00:32:50.960
a that's really that's a skill.

561
00:32:51.079 --> 00:32:52.839
Yeah, it is a skill.

562
00:32:52.920 --> 00:32:56.640
Maybe I am a right, Maybe maybe I've shocked herself.

563
00:32:57.680 --> 00:33:00.000
It's great, isn't it. I'm about to have a book

564
00:33:00.119 --> 00:33:03.119
published and as getting published internationally, and I'm still sitting

565
00:33:03.160 --> 00:33:05.920
here to you saying no, I'm not really a writer.

566
00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:11.000
I don't think it's sunk in yet. Bardy.

567
00:33:11.319 --> 00:33:13.359
So, Jenny, in your day to day work, you said

568
00:33:13.400 --> 00:33:15.880
that you obviously you are a counselor. This is the

569
00:33:16.720 --> 00:33:19.960
community that you particularly work with. You also run workshops

570
00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:21.480
who do you run workshops for.

571
00:33:21.799 --> 00:33:27.559
I run workshops, So I run sexuality workshops for adults

572
00:33:27.640 --> 00:33:33.240
with intellectual disabilities. So they're really fun to have thirty

573
00:33:33.279 --> 00:33:36.720
to forty adults with intellectual disabilities in one room for

574
00:33:36.759 --> 00:33:40.119
a full day, because I have big expectations that you know, no,

575
00:33:40.319 --> 00:33:42.079
this is a day workshop. You're going to hang out

576
00:33:42.119 --> 00:33:43.359
for the day, and we do.

577
00:33:43.640 --> 00:33:43.720
So.

578
00:33:43.759 --> 00:33:47.640
I do a lot of education around sexuality and consent

579
00:33:47.920 --> 00:33:51.000
and what sex is, and because as we know, many

580
00:33:51.079 --> 00:33:57.000
many statistics of sexual abuse and assault are significant for

581
00:33:57.160 --> 00:34:00.200
people within the disability community. So I run worked so

582
00:34:00.279 --> 00:34:03.960
that A run workshops so professionals and I don't know

583
00:34:04.160 --> 00:34:07.960
anybody who wants me to talk pasts really just you know,

584
00:34:08.039 --> 00:34:10.760
broader education for their community.

585
00:34:10.760 --> 00:34:12.440
You know, it's good for people to know people who

586
00:34:12.519 --> 00:34:14.440
are listening. It's good for them to know what the

587
00:34:14.480 --> 00:34:16.840
services are that you offer, because they might want to

588
00:34:16.840 --> 00:34:20.119
call you up and have you come and run a workshop.

589
00:34:20.320 --> 00:34:22.400
Tell a few stories, tell a few stories, tell a

590
00:34:22.440 --> 00:34:23.559
few stories exactly.

591
00:34:23.679 --> 00:34:27.119
They'll be entertained, entertained and educated.

592
00:34:27.480 --> 00:34:31.159
So how did their love on the spectrum thing come about?

593
00:34:31.320 --> 00:34:33.760
Somebody just ring you up one day, Jodie and say.

594
00:34:33.639 --> 00:34:36.159
Hey, yeah, it was very random, and.

595
00:34:36.079 --> 00:34:38.199
What were your thoughts, Well, I would love to know

596
00:34:38.239 --> 00:34:39.320
what your initial reaction.

597
00:34:39.480 --> 00:34:46.599
My first My first initial reaction was no. So when

598
00:34:46.639 --> 00:34:49.320
I was contacted, and it was it was one of

599
00:34:49.320 --> 00:34:52.119
those things where somebody had told somebody else about me

600
00:34:52.280 --> 00:34:54.880
kind of thing. And then I was contacted by the

601
00:34:54.880 --> 00:34:58.119
production team Northern Pictures, who are a brilliant production team.

602
00:34:58.199 --> 00:35:04.800
But my first reaction internally was no, Why, no way

603
00:35:04.840 --> 00:35:06.760
in the hell am I going to be on the TV.

604
00:35:06.880 --> 00:35:10.440
That's ridiculous. And there's a couple of reasons for it.

605
00:35:10.440 --> 00:35:11.880
You know, one case, I never want to be on

606
00:35:11.880 --> 00:35:18.840
the TV, and the second one is that I'm a counselor,

607
00:35:18.920 --> 00:35:23.320
and so part of counseling, the true part of counseling

608
00:35:23.400 --> 00:35:30.079
is you can you can have every single theoretical understanding.

609
00:35:30.440 --> 00:35:33.159
You know, you could have studied all components of what

610
00:35:33.760 --> 00:35:36.119
I'm trying to say, just you know, counseling theory. You

611
00:35:36.159 --> 00:35:38.159
can have all of that. You can be a genius.

612
00:35:38.559 --> 00:35:42.280
But the greatest thing about counseling is having a genuine

613
00:35:42.400 --> 00:35:45.519
relationship with the person in front of you. Because when

614
00:35:45.559 --> 00:35:50.119
the relationship is genuine, it's professional. But when it's genuine,

615
00:35:50.679 --> 00:35:54.159
then you can interact with each other in a way

616
00:35:54.199 --> 00:35:58.280
that is very real, and for me to go why

617
00:35:58.519 --> 00:36:03.280
I can't tell you and be filmed doing something that

618
00:36:03.400 --> 00:36:07.519
to me, I hold in the highest regard, that therapeutic

619
00:36:07.599 --> 00:36:11.320
relationship I hold very very highly. So in my mind

620
00:36:11.360 --> 00:36:13.599
I thought, not, no way in hell, because I won't

621
00:36:13.639 --> 00:36:17.639
have a genuine relationship with these people. Weirdly, CAAs saying

622
00:36:17.679 --> 00:36:22.000
that every single person, say, Michael, who I'm on the

623
00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:24.760
show with Hee and I've been friends now for five years,

624
00:36:24.920 --> 00:36:26.920
Tale and I've been friends for three and a half years.

625
00:36:26.960 --> 00:36:31.480
I maintain friendships with every single because I requested that

626
00:36:31.559 --> 00:36:33.880
as well. I said, if I'm on this show with

627
00:36:34.119 --> 00:36:36.599
these people, then they need to know that any point

628
00:36:36.719 --> 00:36:40.119
after the show, I'm in their lives, not as a professional,

629
00:36:40.679 --> 00:36:45.679
just in their life. And yeah, that's been maintained with everybody.

630
00:36:45.960 --> 00:36:49.000
But yeah, so I said. My initial reaction was no,

631
00:36:49.239 --> 00:36:51.480
but they talked me into it. And they talked me

632
00:36:51.519 --> 00:36:57.000
into it basically by saying, it'll be five minutes one

633
00:36:57.039 --> 00:37:01.360
episode one these and so I thought, all, I'll do

634
00:37:01.480 --> 00:37:04.880
five minutes, but you know it's people don't understand, Well,

635
00:37:04.920 --> 00:37:08.480
I didn't understand they film you for five hours to

636
00:37:08.920 --> 00:37:12.039
edit to five minutes. So you have to put a

637
00:37:12.079 --> 00:37:15.599
great deal of trust in the production company as well,

638
00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:18.119
because you have no idea what they're going to edit

639
00:37:18.280 --> 00:37:20.360
that that five hours into.

640
00:37:21.000 --> 00:37:22.800
Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

641
00:37:23.039 --> 00:37:25.199
That would if somebody had approached me, that would always

642
00:37:25.239 --> 00:37:26.920
be my concern, like, how do I know how this

643
00:37:26.960 --> 00:37:29.920
is going to come across in the editor version, because

644
00:37:29.920 --> 00:37:31.679
there's so much that people don't see.

645
00:37:32.000 --> 00:37:34.960
I was really scared. I was really scared because I

646
00:37:35.039 --> 00:37:39.039
knew enough to know that with anybody I was with

647
00:37:39.199 --> 00:37:44.239
that we had been miked up and filmed for many,

648
00:37:44.280 --> 00:37:48.800
many hours, and so when and then I didn't know

649
00:37:48.840 --> 00:37:50.239
what they were going to do with it. And I

650
00:37:50.239 --> 00:37:52.880
think because I was living in you know, back the

651
00:37:52.920 --> 00:37:56.320
Bachelor World, Love Island, you know that we know what

652
00:37:56.360 --> 00:37:59.519
they do with that. So but this isn't it's not

653
00:37:59.599 --> 00:38:03.199
reality television, so it's a doco series. It's nothing scripted,

654
00:38:03.280 --> 00:38:07.039
there's no there was never any competition. We were never

655
00:38:07.119 --> 00:38:11.280
told what to say or not say. I met every

656
00:38:11.320 --> 00:38:13.400
single person for the first time when I knocked on

657
00:38:13.440 --> 00:38:15.639
their doors. That's the first time I've ever met any

658
00:38:15.719 --> 00:38:18.199
of them. None of us were paid to be on

659
00:38:18.239 --> 00:38:21.760
there because we're all being ourselves. There was no casting,

660
00:38:22.599 --> 00:38:26.199
It's just us and so it's genuine in that way.

661
00:38:26.320 --> 00:38:27.760
But yes, they did a great job.

662
00:38:28.079 --> 00:38:28.760
Yeah they did.

663
00:38:28.960 --> 00:38:31.559
You must have sense that they were very pure in

664
00:38:31.599 --> 00:38:34.760
their intentions. They had good intentions in making the show.

665
00:38:35.320 --> 00:38:37.360
Yeah, And one of the things I saw very quickly

666
00:38:38.239 --> 00:38:43.719
was the respect that the production company gave to the

667
00:38:43.760 --> 00:38:47.239
autistic people on that show and the support that was

668
00:38:47.280 --> 00:38:51.599
offered to them. And if any of the people on

669
00:38:51.639 --> 00:38:55.119
the show said I want to break, it was given

670
00:38:55.119 --> 00:38:58.599
straight away. There was always checking in are you okay

671
00:39:00.159 --> 00:39:05.039
need this? If they it was very very respectful. And

672
00:39:05.320 --> 00:39:09.679
so because I saw that, I also knew, I really

673
00:39:09.760 --> 00:39:15.159
knew that what they were wanting to do was they

674
00:39:15.199 --> 00:39:18.039
really wanted to educate the community on autism, but they

675
00:39:18.079 --> 00:39:19.800
wanted to do it in a way that would hook

676
00:39:19.920 --> 00:39:23.159
people in. And I think that they got it right.

677
00:39:23.239 --> 00:39:26.719
They got went hang on, everybody, we're all into this

678
00:39:26.840 --> 00:39:29.199
dating at the moment. They'se dating, thats are going wild.

679
00:39:29.320 --> 00:39:32.800
Everybody's interested. So it was like wanting to give a

680
00:39:32.840 --> 00:39:37.159
presentation of autistic people to a big wide community. But

681
00:39:37.239 --> 00:39:40.440
they really you know, if it had been let's do

682
00:39:40.480 --> 00:39:44.320
a show on transport training and people catching a bus.

683
00:39:44.639 --> 00:39:46.559
It just couldn't have had the same call. No, you

684
00:39:46.599 --> 00:39:50.159
know it just it was the hook that got people

685
00:39:50.159 --> 00:39:53.039
in because we've all experienced it, we all know it.

686
00:39:53.440 --> 00:39:55.199
I was going to ask how much time did you

687
00:39:55.280 --> 00:39:58.800
actually get to spend with the people on the show,

688
00:39:58.840 --> 00:40:01.320
and like, were you actually a to do like, you know,

689
00:40:01.440 --> 00:40:04.599
genuine work because we only see this little five minute snippet.

690
00:40:05.119 --> 00:40:07.880
Oh yeah, definitely, so hours and hours and they'd be

691
00:40:07.920 --> 00:40:11.039
built up too. That was really funny because I can remember,

692
00:40:11.880 --> 00:40:13.480
I don't know if you've seen the part of the

693
00:40:13.760 --> 00:40:18.039
show cast, but there's Calvin, who's a really great friend

694
00:40:18.039 --> 00:40:23.000
of mine now, and there's his dad, and they're a

695
00:40:23.079 --> 00:40:26.159
Chinese family, a male household with just the two of them.

696
00:40:26.920 --> 00:40:30.719
And so when I went to the house, what people

697
00:40:30.920 --> 00:40:35.320
saw was me working with Calvin to say when somebody

698
00:40:35.440 --> 00:40:37.719
enters the date. They saw a snippet of it, and

699
00:40:37.760 --> 00:40:41.519
the feedback for that was, oh, you know, Jodie's trying

700
00:40:41.559 --> 00:40:45.119
to teach neurotypical social skills and why the hell is

701
00:40:45.119 --> 00:40:47.320
she getting him to pull out the chair and stuff

702
00:40:47.320 --> 00:40:51.159
like that. What people didn't see was the discussion of

703
00:40:51.199 --> 00:40:56.679
them about their culture of respect to women. And you

704
00:40:56.719 --> 00:40:59.400
know that's the thing. People, I only get to see

705
00:40:59.480 --> 00:41:04.000
this new thing. And if people haven't experienced being on

706
00:41:04.039 --> 00:41:08.400
television or know what editing's like, even audio editing, people

707
00:41:09.159 --> 00:41:13.960
think that you just get filmed for that that five minutes,

708
00:41:14.440 --> 00:41:18.119
and that's the reality. It's not the reality. Any reality.

709
00:41:18.199 --> 00:41:20.199
Television is not reality.

710
00:41:20.440 --> 00:41:20.880
Yeah.

711
00:41:20.920 --> 00:41:24.880
So yeah, but I I was with them and that

712
00:41:25.039 --> 00:41:27.760
was a beautiful thing. Because I was filmed with them,

713
00:41:27.800 --> 00:41:31.119
I got to you know, follow up with them, and

714
00:41:31.239 --> 00:41:37.039
then it became friendships. So you know, I have maintained friendships.

715
00:41:37.039 --> 00:41:39.960
Actually I caught up with Michael and Tayo just yesterday.

716
00:41:40.039 --> 00:41:45.559
We were hanging out together in Sydney. So's it's lovely. Yeah,

717
00:41:45.599 --> 00:41:46.679
it's really really lovely.

718
00:41:46.840 --> 00:41:47.639
Yeah.

719
00:41:48.320 --> 00:41:50.920
Such rewarding work, Jodie, I feel like I just must

720
00:41:50.920 --> 00:41:53.480
be such. I mean, I'm you know, I do counseling

721
00:41:53.480 --> 00:41:56.119
and stuff as well and coaching. But so I know,

722
00:41:56.280 --> 00:41:58.519
but it seems like you must you must really love

723
00:41:58.559 --> 00:42:00.840
your job because it seems like very rewarding work.

724
00:42:01.280 --> 00:42:05.119
Yeah. Yeah, I really. Well, if you're a counselor, you

725
00:42:05.199 --> 00:42:07.360
know this case, if you're a counselor and you didn't

726
00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:10.079
like your work, you shouldn't be doing it. You shouldn't

727
00:42:10.079 --> 00:42:13.039
be there. You have to really love people, you have

728
00:42:13.119 --> 00:42:15.920
to be really curious about people, and you have to

729
00:42:16.519 --> 00:42:19.440
have a belief that every single person on the planet

730
00:42:19.480 --> 00:42:22.440
has good in them and that we're all striving to

731
00:42:22.480 --> 00:42:25.039
be our best selves and some of us just need

732
00:42:25.119 --> 00:42:28.199
a little bit more help. Yeah, yeah, you know, and

733
00:42:28.239 --> 00:42:31.920
we need to connect with each other. So sometimes a

734
00:42:32.039 --> 00:42:35.599
counselor or a psych or sometimes there can be the

735
00:42:35.639 --> 00:42:39.400
only people that people tell their whole truth to you exactly,

736
00:42:39.800 --> 00:42:41.920
and it can be very liberating to tell your whole

737
00:42:41.960 --> 00:42:44.840
truth to somebody. Yeah, but now I am very, very

738
00:42:44.960 --> 00:42:45.519
very lucky.

739
00:42:46.119 --> 00:42:48.400
Yeah, you've found your calling, that's for sure. And you

740
00:42:48.440 --> 00:42:50.880
found it at a young age, by the sound of it. Jody,

741
00:42:51.639 --> 00:42:55.840
I really congratulations on all of it, and I just

742
00:42:55.880 --> 00:42:58.960
think it's such it's such good work that you're doing,

743
00:42:59.039 --> 00:43:03.239
and it's just so so lovely to see the level

744
00:43:03.320 --> 00:43:07.639
of education and awareness being raised in the wider community,

745
00:43:07.679 --> 00:43:10.559
and you've done a really great job of contributing to that.

746
00:43:10.639 --> 00:43:14.360
So thank you, Thank you, Cas. That's lovely. Thank you.

747
00:43:14.360 --> 00:43:16.280
You can find out more about Jodie's work at her

748
00:43:16.320 --> 00:43:20.440
website Birdsandbees dot com dot Au. Her brand new book

749
00:43:20.559 --> 00:43:23.679
Unique is out next week in Australia. You can pre

750
00:43:23.800 --> 00:43:26.119
order it right now. Love on the Spectrum, of Course,

751
00:43:26.199 --> 00:43:30.639
is available on Netflix. It is really heartwarming television. I

752
00:43:30.880 --> 00:43:33.360
recommend it if you haven't tuned in already. Thank you

753
00:43:33.360 --> 00:43:35.639
so much for being here. Thank you for sending me

754
00:43:35.840 --> 00:43:38.000
your messages on Instagram about what you.

755
00:43:37.920 --> 00:43:40.119
Would like to hear on the podcast.

756
00:43:40.239 --> 00:43:43.119
Always really open and interested in your input, and I

757
00:43:43.119 --> 00:43:45.480
can't wait to catch you next week for another episode

758
00:43:45.519 --> 00:43:46.360
of Crapy to Happy