[ 00:00:09,580 ]Tiffany Hall is a woman who knows reinvention— from her roots in elite-level martial arts to finding gladiators' fame and launching a television career to a decade leading her own wellness empire. She has made strength and self-belief her signature. She's also a bestselling author and she's been a leading voice in body-positive, realistic health for women. For 10 years, she ran her fitness brand, TXO, helping thousands of women reclaim their strength on their terms. And of course, she was my co-host on this very show when we launched all the way back in 2017.
[ 00:00:45,630 ] Beyond the public spotlight in the decade since Tiff and I first met, she has stepped into motherhood. navigated the highs and lows of postpartum body changes, dealt with crippling injuries and chronic illness. Most recently, she has made a bold pivot. Selling TXO to 28 by Sam Wood, she's transitioned from business owner to trainer. It is a huge move. It's one that has provoked mixed reactions from her community. And so today I am so excited to catch up, unpack what this change has meant for her publicly and privately, and to hear what is next for Tiffany Hall. Welcome back to Crappy to Happy, Tiff.
[ 00:01:28,130 ]Thank you, Cass, for having me. Beautiful Crappy to Happy. It's so good to be back. It's so good to see you.
[ 00:01:34,710 ]Now, even personally, you and I haven't had a chance to catch up for so long. So I'm really having the chance to ask you all these questions for the first time myself. Yeah.
[ 00:01:46,230 ] Yeah. So Tiff. The sale of TXO to 28 by Sam Wood. When you made that decision. Mm-hmm. What was the inner narrative for you?
[ 00:02:01,360 ] Gosh. It was a long time coming. It wasn't like. He called me and made an offer and I said, 'Yes.' And like it was a couple of meetups and, oh, aren't our communities so simple? and our values, and, you know, a couple of meetings, and wouldn't it be cool if two of the largest fitness apps in Australia joined forces? Imagine the impact that would have on women's health. Oh, that'd be cool. That'd be cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I wasn't ready. That was three years ago, right? Really? That long ago? And so we kept in touch. It was, you know, very casual. I admired him and what he's done in the fitness industry. I admire him as a businessman, as an entrepreneur.
[ 00:02:50,010 ] And then the stars aligned and you know how I am with my astrology, Gaz. Yeah, aren't we both? You know, the stars aligned and it was the right time and we started talking about it more seriously. And I started to think about how I could give more value to my members, what it would mean for my members moving to 28 by Sandwood with such a huge team behind me. And I got really excited about it as the next phase for TXO, for growing it, for scaling it. And, you know, I had been at the helm of a ship running TXO on my own for 10 years. And as a female founder, it's difficult because I don't care what anyone says out there. As a female founder, you don't get maternity leave. You are still working when you're pregnant. You are navigating postpartum with a huge throbbing business behind you.
[ 00:03:50,970 ] And for me that was difficult. I had two kids whilst I was running TXO and, you know. Know, I, I held it all together, but it comes a time when I really wanted to grow it. I wanted to give the members more value and Sam would. He offered all of that. He offered a bigger team and, you know, better tech. And I was able to step into the role of being a trainer, which I absolutely love. On 28 and I filmed so many, so many new workouts for all of the 28ers and the ninjas and that's really exciting to have new workouts out there.
[ 00:04:28,290 ] I get to do what I love which is be a trainer. And really focus on the community and the people and the training, you know, go back to my roots. Yeah. It's been really, really good.
[ 00:04:39,390 ] And I loved running the business. I loved being a CEO. I loved being a founder. And that's always going to be with me. And I'm so proud of Tech. So I really am. It's been quite a journey. Yeah, you're answering my next question now. Going through.
[ 00:04:54,630 ] I guess the word is grief because it was grieving for me, you know, giving something that big, that big part of me away.
[ 00:05:07,560 ] It was a grieving process where I feel like I've accepted it now and I'm really excited about the future and I've seen how awesome 28 is and the team and everything. So it's been a bit easier being in it now. You know, at first it was hard. It was very, very hard to move on because there's been a huge impact. TXO has impacted a lot of lives and in such a positive way.
[ 00:05:30,520 ] But, you know, I was really, really proud to have created a business and then to have sold a business. And, you know, my kids are at the gorgeous ages of three and eight. And I really, really wanted to have more time to be with them and it has brought that about. I've been at all the Christmas concerts and I've been at all the, you know, and I couldn't always do that. So this year I have and that's really important to me. So it's been really nice.
[ 00:06:02,790 ] Yeah, it is really nice. I was actually going to ask you through all of what you dealt with while you were running TXI. I mean, there was a global pandemic. You had awfully challenging pregnancies. You were so sick. You had wrist.
[ 00:06:18,460 ] There was so much personal stuff that you dealt with. And I was curious to know, were there moments over that period where you would have, you know, you had those quiet thoughts like, 'Oh God, I could just let this go.' I just, this is too much.
[ 00:06:31,690 ] You know, if it was more of a something you'd thought about over years or if this was more just like, 'Yeah, no, now's the time.'
[ 00:06:41,520 ] There's two things, like definitely going through things publicly made me feel very vulnerable. And so— I felt pressure. I felt that there are other.
[ 00:06:54,990 ] I don't know.
[ 00:06:57,340 ] Fitness leaders of apps or whatever you call them, content creators, influencers, they're online all the time, you know, and you feel that pressure to compete, to keep up. And I was always keeping it very real and sharing a lot of myself and for real women to keep fit, you know. It was hard because I felt very vulnerable in those moments and being so public and going through it so publicly and having lots of comments and opinions, it's hard at times. Sometimes I thought, 'Oh, I just want to throw my phone or my computer, you know, in the pool or just, you know, I just smash my phone or like I just wouldn't.' Want to engage with it absolutely. There were moments, but the passion for fitness, the passion to help people, to discover that power of health and fitness was always stronger than any kind of hardship or vulnerability I was experiencing, if that makes sense. So I always kind of persevered and I always knew that my injuries were my greatest.
[ 00:08:02,970 ] Teachers, those things I was going through, having my babies in postpartum, all these phases and seasons of life made me a better trainer. If I had stuck in my 20s training people on The Biggest Loser, I would never have been such a good coach. I had to go through all of this stuff. I put on 40 kilos with VEDA. I think I got to nearly 100 kilos and I sit at 55 usually with VEDA. I really did put on a lot of weight.
[ 00:08:34,549 ] So for context, you are how tall, Tiff? You're like five.
[ 00:08:36,990 ] I'm, I'm. Five, three.
[ 00:08:40,030 ]At a push!
[ 00:08:41,929 ] It was a lot of weight, a lot of damage to my knees and my joints and all kinds of things. And then, you know, I thought I'd never get. Fit and strong again, and then I went through that journey. I did it. It took me three years, but you know, all of that made me a better coach. So, yeah, there were moments when I thought, 'Oh, I'd really like some privacy right now— around when I had my babies or when I was postpartum and sleep-deprived, still showing up in the community.' Still running an online business, where the primary advertising, you know, was done on Instagram. So, you've got to show up, you've got to keep the engagement going.
[ 00:09:20,820 ] But at the end of the day, I still did it because I love fitness. It was always a beacon of hope and light for myself in those vulnerable moments where I would connect through movement. And I thought, 'Gosh, even when I was huffing and puffing to walk up the stairs, or I— I hated exercise because it hurt for the first time because I was in a heavier body— or, you know, I really realized, 'Oh, this is what people go through.' This is why they don't love it. Doing burpees. It hurts. And then I was a better coach and I was able to create Mumbod, which was low impact and great for postpartum. And it went off, you know, I just, I always worked with the seasons I was in. And, and I think that's what you got to be real and you got to share with people.
[ 00:10:05,980 ] And it always was my saviour at the end of the day.
[ 00:10:09,620 ] Yeah, there was never a moment where I thought I would give up tics or if anything, it was like saving me all the time, that connection. Yeah, wow.
[ 00:10:20,270 ] Yeah. And so, when it came to the point, like, what was the catalyst then that made you go, yeah, no, actually, now's the time. Like now I'm ready. You said three years ago you weren't ready.
[ 00:10:30,660 ] Yeah, I wasn't ready three years ago. I just had beta. I was really in my flow and I was enjoying that. But now my kids really need it. Me. Life is busy. There's baseball and swimming and Jim Baru and gymnastics and taekwondo and homework. And it is nonstop. My kids need me. I'm 41 now. And like my husband said, you know. You're 41. Most pro athletes, like pro footballers, retire mid-thirties and you're still performing. Like I film lots of workouts. One day, high volumes of exercise. He's like, you're performing at an elite level and you're 41. I'm like, I know, I know. I love it. I love it. But my body wasn't holding up as well. I was having injuries. I was having niggles. And I just thought, you know, let's take the pressure off. Yeah. Let's take the pressure off.
[ 00:11:24,880 ] I saw this great opportunity to give my members so much more value than what I could have given them at that point in a very competitive industry. And yeah, I leaped at that opportunity.
[ 00:11:40,120 ] So was this just an arrangement that you and Sam kind of came to together or was there a, you know, put the business out to a broker and call for, you know, put it up for sale basically?
[ 00:11:50,620 ] No, not at all. This was just between Sam and I, because.
[ 00:11:55,360 ] Like, if I had have thought, I want to sell the business, that's my goal. I wouldn't even know how to do that, to be honest. The only reason the whole acquisition with Sam Wood worked was because our communities were so similar, because our values and our missions were so similar. And I just knew that my ninjas would feel at home on 28. And it really was a no brainer. Like, they just, they just matched perfectly.
[ 00:12:23,660 ] No other app would sync up with TXO in the same way. So it was uncanny and it was just the right time and the right alignment. I'm a big believer in. Flow doesn't force if you're forcing something— it's not right. Yeah, this just had flow and all of a sudden it was flowing and it was working and then we were we're announcing and we were launching and and I was like, 'Oh my goodness, it was all going very fast' and I didn't really emotionally process it. And then after it was all done, I was so worried about taking care of everyone and making sure everyone was—okay. You know, at home and it was all okay. And, you know, I didn't give myself any time to really think about it emotionally, you know, so.
[ 00:13:10,660 ] I've done that now and, yeah, it's feeling more normal because I only knew TXO and I only knew that life.
[ 00:13:19,450 ] Yeah, it's a new chapter now.
[ 00:13:21,950 ] I remember after that announcement and when it went public, and you came to the end with a website switching off, like that was a really emotional time for you.
[ 00:13:33,780 ] Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Because, you know, my TXO. com, it was like my home screen and everything. And then it was odd to not see the branding and to see it all change.
[ 00:13:47,930 ] You know, it's a big change.
[ 00:13:50,790 ] We have to change to grow and I needed to grow TXLs at that point.
[ 00:13:57,000 ] And I didn't have all the resources that I needed to do that at that time. And Sam offered all of it. So it was a good one.
[ 00:14:05,940 ] One of the, I guess, the complaints or the concerns that people in your community had was that they had Somehow or other, I wasn't even aware of this and I've been around TXO since the beginning, but there were people who had a $47 a year. Subscription. And they were locked into that for life. Was that an offer that you put out during the pandemic or something to help people through? Yeah, a long time. We did that to help people.
[ 00:14:33,020 ] You know, I really wanted people to feel fit and stay connected during COVID. And so, yeah, it was a lifetime subscription for under $50. Yeah.
[ 00:14:43,660 ] Under $50 a year as long as they continue to renew. So there were people who clearly, and that wasn't the only low-priced offer that you put out. Over the years, you had put out lots of really low-priced subscriptions.
[ 00:14:57,403 ] Even if they bought some of my apparel or equipment or supplements, they'd earn free time on their subscriptions and things like that over the course of TXO. So I've always really tried to make fitness very accessible.
[ 00:15:11,070 ] Yeah, to your detriment, do you think? Like that's not sustainable. $47 a year or even $197 or whatever you were charging, $97. That is not sustainable. So when you say I didn't have the resources, looking back, would you have done things differently? I think so.
[ 00:15:29,500 ] I think so. And I put every penny that I made back into Teak, so back into the production of the beautiful workout videos.
[ 00:15:38,400 ] Making sure I looked after my trainers and every penny I made. And I would probably do it a bit differently, absolutely.
[ 00:15:47,090 ] At the end of the day, I'm just so proud that so many people got to train with me. You know, I loved that.
[ 00:15:53,400 ] I just loved the community so much and it is still such a special place. So I've never been in anything like it and, yeah, I just would do anything for them. Even if it wasn't making great business sense at the time.
[ 00:16:09,780 ] Yeah, which, you know, I can say this. I was looking at some of those comments in the community and thinking, my God, like what do you expect? People are kind of upset. I mean, understandably, but also. People were getting a lot for nothing.
[ 00:16:25,200 ] A lot of programs and a lot of content and new content and. It's expensive to make content, as you know.
[ 00:16:35,640 ] Very expensive. So, you know, I really wanted to create new workouts for all of my members all of the time, but you just have to have the resources. And so. Yes, Sam Wood offered that and I thought you're going to get the most amazing programs and workouts from me now, like I was so excited because Sam Wood charges what he's like $50-$ 57 a month, right?
[ 00:16:59,073 ] So he's got the resources he's got, yeah, he's got the resources. How did you handle? Some of that pushback that you got from your community. And I'm not just talking about the people who are begrudging the increased price, but the people who also really felt an emotional connection to you and to the program.
[ 00:17:17,440 ] How did you manage some of the negativity that you got and alongside your own emotional experience?
[ 00:17:26,619 ] That was really hard. It was very hard because.
[ 00:17:30,190 ] This is a community that had embraced me and, you know, I didn't like them being upset. I didn't like that.
[ 00:17:37,400 ] You know, change is uncomfortable. But when you have that discomfort, that's when you do grow. That's when you are challenged. And I just knew I was doing the best thing for my community. Because if I had just decided I'd had enough, it would have just ended. Like it would have just shut down. There would be no workouts. There would be nothing. There would be no community. It would just shut down. So it was for them to have more value.
[ 00:18:05,140 ] I could have kept going. I absolutely could have kept going the way I was going, and I would have, but this opportunity just. It just was too good to pass up and I just knew that this value would definitely suit my ninjas once they got onto the app and once. They experienced it and they got the rest of their time, you know, free on 28. To run out their subscription free on 28, to experience it before they had it. to pay nothing before any money. You know, it didn't automatically renew on 28. It was all shut down, and then they had the free time and they could make a decision whether they wanted to join 28 for $44 for three months. We gave them a 70% discount, you know, and I thought, you know, this is a good deal and there's. Thousands of workouts and recipes. And it's just, it's a real monster. Like it's amazing. It's absolutely amazing.
[ 00:19:02,970 ] So coming out of the other side of it, like once that initial emotional moment of announcing it, dealing with it, going through that yourself. Now that you're settling into your role, not as a CEO, but as a trainer, how's it going?
[ 00:19:19,700 ] It's going so good. Like, you know, I'm back doing what I'm passionate about, which is training people, like being on camera, training people. And that's what I love most and that's why I got into this. It started in. My Taekwondo dojo.
[ 00:19:33,920 ] Just me and a camera filming workouts for TXO in my dojo. And we did that for years before we went into proper studios or, you know, warehouse houses and had proper cameras and stuff. Like it was just me, the dojo and the camera. And so that passion has never left me. I get to do that now more often. I'm filming a lot more often and I'm able to give my members a lot more new content and variety and it's so much better. I just think that's why they're there. They're there to work out. They're there to get strong.
[ 00:20:10,020 ] The community plays a big part in accountability and support and motivation, absolutely. But at the end of the day, you want a really good quality training program. And that's what I can provide. I'm a personal trainer, you know. I don't know how good I was at running a business or whatever, but I am a good personal trainer. So that's where I'm doing my best thing.
[ 00:20:29,560 ] Yet. You did a lot of it. You did a lot of things. You went through so many stages. I mean, it's a long time, but you went into apparel, you went into supplements. What were some of the biggest lessons that you, say that again?
[ 00:20:40,920 ] And equipment.
[ 00:20:41,820 ] Equipment, of course, equipment.
[ 00:20:43,940 ] What were, do you think, some of the biggest lessons that you learned as a business owner?
[ 00:20:50,910 ] Yeah, products are hard. Products are hard. I think I learned that.
[ 00:20:56,880 ] And. We did so well with the supplements. My community loved the supplements and the apparel as well. Oh, my goodness. Flew off the shelves. I was shocked by that. But at the end of the day, with Flex, it was taking too much of the oxygen away from the fitness program and I just felt like I was modelling. Activewear and products all the time and not creating content for the fitness programs. And I thought, what am I doing? Like, I am here. to make people strong and healthy and fit. And I just wanted to return to my roots. So I kind of circled back to putting all my energy back into TXO Life, which was the fitness program. And did that for a couple more years, you know. And then that's where I came to with Sam Wood again. I'm like, oh, my God, I am at a computer all day running a team, running a business.
[ 00:21:52,850 ] I'm not, again, being a trainer, which is grassroots what I want to do. So again, I circle back to doing what I love, which is training people. So I'll do whatever it takes to kind of connect with people and make them feel strong in that way.
[ 00:22:06,400 ] It is such an important lesson. I mean, you're talking about your industry, the fitness industry, but I'm in a completely different industry and I see lots of other people, but people think, 'Oh, I can make more money or I can.' Supplement my income if I go in this direction, if I add this, if I add that. Not realizing that every one of those things is a whole separate business, it's a whole separate marketing strategy.
[ 00:22:27,135 ] It zaps your resources and all of a sudden my team are focused on something else, and the fitness program is suffering. I'm like, 'No, no, no, no, no, no.' As successful as all those things were, and they were really successful, and I moved a lot of stock, I just thought, 'Oh, we're just straying from what.' I came here to do the mission, you know, which was realistic fitness for real women and helping women find their fit. So yeah, I gave up a lot along the way to do that.
[ 00:22:59,370 ] You mentioned early, Tiff, that while you were going through some difficult phases, like, and there's this pressure in your industry, particularly. You're promoting on Instagram and you've got to be online. The comparison, comparing yourself to other people all the time, must have been one of the biggest challenges. How did you manage that? To put your blinkers on and stay in your lane. How challenging was that?
[ 00:23:23,590 ] Well, it was really challenging, but the way I managed to do that was just basically not be online. I had a social media manager, you know, and so what would happen is we'd get content, we'd schedule content. It would go live; I would interact with comments and all of that. Do it and treat it as a job. Then get offline. And I wouldn't be scrolling, doom scrolling and comparing. And that's the way that, like, was the best for my mental health at those vulnerable times, you know. At any time, really. Yeah, you've got to like outsource, I think, and it is a job. It's advertising, it's a platform, it's the algorithm is a hungry beast and you know I don't actually have a social media manager at the moment. I'm doing all my own posting and my own stuff and it's probably a bit organic and a bit too raw, whatever it's not polished. But. I've gone through phases of actually going, oh, I'm not dealing with this. And I get a social media manager and that, you know, helps.
[ 00:24:23,230 ] But I can kind of deal with it at the moment. Like I'm feeling very strong and very certain and kind of content. So I'm not really bothered by being online so much at the moment. But it goes through phases and I think that's very natural. I think everyone, gosh, being in this industry of running my own business for 10 years and then being in television. Before that, I've been online out there in the media for like 20 years now. So you know, it's only natural that sometimes you need a break, sometimes you need a digital detox, sometimes you need people to not be at you. I think I'm only human in that I go offline sometimes and then I come back. I think that's okay. I always think no one's waiting for your post-tiff.
[ 00:25:09,140 ] I sing that and, you know, no one's missing it.
[ 00:25:12,550 ] This is what I tell myself too. Like sometimes you feel that ridiculous. I mean, you've got a much bigger presence, obviously, than what I do, but even little me— like you— go through these phases where you think, 'Oh God, I haven't posted or I haven't sent an email or I haven't done something.' And then you have to tell yourself, 'There is nobody sitting at home, pressing refresh, thinking, 'Where's Cass? Where's Tiff?'
[ 00:25:33,040 ] Yes, I always think that. And it's very healthy, I think. You just think, 'Oh, I'll just let it go.' I just let it go today.
[ 00:25:40,950 ] I don't know. I just have a different perspective, especially after having the kids. Just. It just doesn't matter as much. I don't know. It just doesn't matter.
[ 00:25:49,880 ] What has Ed and the kids noticed that is different about you since you stepped away?
[ 00:25:55,400 ] I think I'm definitely more present. Like I don't have a laptop or a phone in my hand 24-7. And I think I've got more of a pep in my step and re-found that joy of actually connecting and training and putting programs together and the passion has come back. There was a lot of stress running a business and anyone would tell you that with the cost of living.
[ 00:26:18,110 ] You know, it's hard running a business, it's hard running a team, and I felt very stressed out a lot of the time. So I guess not having a stressed-out mum, a mum who's enjoying her motherhood, is very important. And so I think we're having fun.
[ 00:26:36,180 ] There have been such big changes in the online fitness space since you launched, right? So we're going back a decade. I think particularly during COVID, suddenly everybody was online, like everything switched to online and every yoga studio suddenly had to have their own online programs. And it was this big shift compared to when you started and there were a handful. What advice would you give somebody now? thinking that they want to launch an online fitness program.
[ 00:27:10,410 ] Hmm.
[ 00:27:12,200 ] I think people like get into it thinking I'm going to have thousands and thousands of members and I know. It's all about the numbers, but I would say you've got to focus on the community. And for me, it was always about the community, like building that strong community. I remember when there's 500 people in there and then there was a thousand and I could not believe it because I was used to teaching Taekwondo classes of 60 people. And if I had a full class, I couldn't believe it, you know? And then when there was 500 people in my community, I was like, 'Oh, it's like crazy, right?'
[ 00:27:49,620 ] So I just couldn't believe it. And then, when it grew to thousands and thousands—and you know, there was connection, there was real connection. So it's not easier being online than being in person, because you really need to build that connection with the community, that trust. And if people don't trust you, they're not going to buy from you. And that trust is really, really, really important. And so. Focus on community. That would be my advice, whether it's a Facebook community or an Instagram community or however you want to foster that online. It is the most important thing.
[ 00:28:26,480 ] Community over.
[ 00:28:28,590 ] Even just the content, you know, the accessibility and the price. It's the community. And you know, on that, a lot of people are off Facebook. A lot of people don't want to be on Facebook. They don't want to be in Facebook groups. Those things don't have the engagement that they have now, that they had back when you started either. So it's a very different landscape.
[ 00:28:49,790 ] It's interesting.
[ 00:28:52,260 ] I'm sitting back now without the pressure and observing, and it is interesting. There's free workouts on YouTube. There's some huge conglomerate apps that I've even been a part of, you know. Global, you know, to compete with now, and it's a really saturated landscape and it's hard. It's really, really hard now and there's a lot of noise and it's hard to stand out.
[ 00:29:19,570 ] I don't know. I don't know what the future holds. And now there's AI and there's avatars and clones and you can clone yourself to train people and you can train your voice and AI assistants.
[ 00:29:35,530 ] There's so much going on.
[ 00:29:38,690 ] I don't know where it's all going. But it's fun to watch. And at the end of the day, I think you can't fake that connection with people and people trusting you. So that's going to be the most important thing, I think.
[ 00:29:52,690 ] So if somebody said to you, 'I want to start an online fitness community.' It's easier than ever to create an app now, again, because of AI. But would you encourage somebody now to go down that path knowing what you know? About the online fitness space these days.
[ 00:30:09,520 ] Hmm.
[ 00:30:11,000 ] No, I think people are a lot more aware of their screen time and I don't know. I just think it's really hard to be at the top of your game in this industry. Really hard. And. Unless you're willing to give it a good decade of, like, hard yakka.
[ 00:30:32,720 ] I would say no. I would say, yeah, it's really, really tough.
[ 00:30:38,830 ] And considering that your, so your program, for example, Sam's program, for example, these are not just workouts either, are they? Like even yours, it's recipes, it's meditation, it's meal plans. Right. It's lifestyle. It's everything. For one low price of a very low rate and a high member churn, I would imagine. Getting members, keeping members.
[ 00:31:03,150 ] Yeah, retention is really, really important and it's. 24-7 and you're online and you're worrying about your members all the time and Yeah. Well, you are. Yeah, I am. Yeah, I do. I used to really stress about them and make sure they're okay and like tuck them into bed, like put my phone down. You guys okay?
[ 00:31:25,370 ] I was so obsessed with tics. So, you know, it's been hard to kind of not do that. It's like, yeah, it's been hard to step away from it. It was time for me. It really was. Yeah. It was. And at the end of the day, it is a business and it was a business decision and you've got to separate the two.
[ 00:31:46,850 ] On a personal level, so you and I, obviously, we've had conversations, many conversations over the years about you and your perfectionism and you and your people pleasing. Yes. You know, you're the over-giver, you're the over-deliverer, you're clearly the undercharger. What have you learned or what do you still need to learn about that?
[ 00:32:10,700 ] Yeah, I think totally given up the whole perfectionism thing, that's for sure. Like I definitely am more relaxed now and with the kids, I just like the house is always a mess. It's at a point where I'm like, 'Yeah, kind of visitors.' It's just like chaos here. End! You know, I kind of love it. It feels so homey and gorgeous and creative.
[ 00:32:37,390 ] But I still think I need to work on. The people pleasing, I guess.
[ 00:32:43,180 ] I remember someone said to me once, 'Oh, I was talking about my friends and they're like, 'What, you mean your members in your community that you haven't met?' And I'm like, 'Yeah.' They're like, 'They're not your friends. They're your members.' There's a difference. You know, you've got to run a business. And I'm like, 'Oh, but it's my community and they're all my mates.' And it kind of shocked me when they said that to me.
[ 00:33:06,030 ] I had to learn sometimes the hard way. You have to run a business— you gotta make hard decisions sometimes, you know? Yeah. It's for the health of the business and it's important. So.
[ 00:33:19,180 ] Yeah, that was really hard to learn along the way, but everyone learns it in business. It's the only way to learn— make mistakes and keep going, resilience. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
[ 00:33:32,780 ] I can remember years ago. wanting to ask, like, I think when we first met, you and I had first met, and I wanted to ask you advice about something. And I remember thinking, no, don't ask. And it wasn't because I didn't want to ask. It was because I know Tiff is such a people-pleaser that she will bend over backwards to do this for me. To her own detriment. Oh, what was it?
[ 00:33:55,660 ] I think I did end up asking you, and I think it was something to do with the book or publishing or introducing or something like that. But it was around that time. But I remember thinking. I don't trust Tiff to say no if she wants to say no. And so therefore, I don't know if I want to ask because I think that she will go out of her way. Do you know? But, have anything for you, Cass? Though I know and I love it, but you know and I feel like that. I know that about you and so you know I managed myself, knowing what you would do. But there are people out there who. We'll just ask and ask and ask. Like they won't stop to think. Well, there are some people who just don't ever ask, but there are some people who will take advantage.
[ 00:34:39,060 ] I am getting better at it. I'm getting better at saying no now. Like I used to get so many DMs, like I wouldn't even check them because every day, hundreds of DMs, right? It was just people asking for advice on different things, health advice, fitness advice.
[ 00:34:54,840 ] And then I went to a stage where I was trying to answer them all. And I was like, what am I doing? Can't give out all this free fitness advice. What am I doing? And I stopped. And so I just, yeah, I have to check myself before I wreck myself a little bit because. Yeah. I will. My first, yeah, I was like, I'll help, I'll help. And then I'm like, I'm burnt out. I'm like, oh, God, you know, so I need to always check myself.
[ 00:35:21,760 ] Yeah.
[ 00:35:23,060 ] I had the same experience in your community too, like in online communities generally because I was in a few of them, 28 actually in the beginning. Yeah, yeah. But, you know, people, you're there and I'm a psychologist. The DMs would come through, like it would be asking a question, something to do with motivation or something to do with, like, emotional eating, all those topics that I've talked about. But you'd get this, like, full on.
[ 00:35:46,430 ] People wanting personal therapy sessions. Yes. As part of their $37 a month subscription to a fitness program. Like some of the stuff that would come through was insane. Yes. Not insane, but the expectations. Yeah, the expectations. The expectations.
[ 00:36:03,320 ] Yes, absolutely.
[ 00:36:05,360 ] Yeah, you're like your free fodder for everyone because you're online, you're out there, you know. But I now say no to so much. It still sits with me and I'm like, oh, I feel icky.
[ 00:36:19,320 ] But I say no to saying yes to other things. Like I just really don't have the capacity at the moment with the kids and stuff.
[ 00:36:26,810 ] I have to.
[ 00:36:28,450 ] Yeah.
[ 00:36:29,340 ] So my question before was: what advice would you have for somebody wanting to start an online fitness business? Now I want to ask you, what's your advice for women who might be feeling exhausted from carrying it all, feeling stretched, overwhelmed, wanting to let something go and struggling with the guilt or feeling like, 'oh, it's a failure.' Like, what advice do you have for those women?
[ 00:36:54,269 ] Yeah, okay. I would say you've got to go back to your passion. You've got to go back to like. Why did I show up here in the first place?
[ 00:37:02,740 ] Like. What did Tiff in her late 20s want? And for me it was always the connection of movement.
[ 00:37:12,010 ] And so you've got to go back to your passion, whatever that is— online. There's people doing some amazing things online. But, you know, if it's breath work or movement or whatever, music, whatever that is— find that passion again. Because, you know, I've had times where I've lost it. I've really lost it. And I've just gone. I've lost it from my passion, my motivation, my actual physical body has changed as well. So I couldn't do the things that I loved. There's been times where I've gone like, 'Why am I here?' So use that passion as a compass and then you'll never feel lost. That's what I always say.
[ 00:37:55,910 ] And it's okay to let go and walk away if something's not working for you.
[ 00:37:59,310 ] Yeah, if something is not making you feel like, I say, growing, grounded, or flowing, like flowing with the universe, like it's just not coming to you easily.
[ 00:38:09,490 ] And let it go. And that's okay. It's okay to grow and change. It's okay to evolve. You know, and I guess you know, seasons yes, there's seasons and ticks. I was a season, it was a long season of my life, but it was a season and it was beautiful and empowering and I'm so proud of it but It was a season and everything changes and comes to an end. Like I couldn't. physically do that forever.
[ 00:38:40,500 ] So was I going to be teaching workouts in my 50s and 60s with chronic arthritis? I just was like, I don't know.
[ 00:38:49,590 ] Yeah. It's a tricky one, isn't it? Especially when you are, I mean, you know, because you can step up and be the CEO and have other people do all of that legwork. But when you are the people that they've bought, yeah. Yeah. They've bought into you and your style and your workouts. It's a challenge.
[ 00:39:06,500 ] At first it was Tiff XO. So it was all about Tiff. I did every workout. I did the Pilates, the stretching, the strength workouts, the HIIT, the Taekwondo, the yoga. I did all of the workouts, right? Then I'm like, okay, not sustainable. So we'll rebrand. We'll rebrand to TXO. It could be Team XO. Who knows what the T stands for? TXO. Bring in a team of trainers and I'll just do a bit of this, bit of that, bit of everything over the top, right? But then everyone still, you look at the views on the videos and they still want more TIFF. And I'm like, no, I don't want TIFF. You want the others. And it was really hard to transition me out or to try and they were always very hooked on me, which was fantastic and such a blessing and I always loved it. It wasn't sustainable, you know, so. I tried rebranding and yeah. It worked. It worked. TXO bar. Everyone still called it TFXO. Yeah. Still too much. Old habits.
[ 00:40:07,200 ] Yeah! So now in the new world, how much time do you spend filming workouts and making content for 28?
[ 00:40:15,460 ] So we started with a bang, actually. I started filming workouts with Sam Wood. We did some celebration workouts together, which were really, really fun. And then, I don't know. In Feb, I've got like four full filming days, which is pretty big, but I can't wait. I've written some great programs. Really excited to do more 10-minute work. Which I think is so great because everyone's got 10 minutes and you can double them up if you want a 20-minute workout, you know, or even triple them up if you want to. Want 30 minutes and it's just so accessible for people, so I'm going to film more 10-minute workouts plus a tone program that's like beginner, intermediate, and advanced. So that's all coming up and yeah, I'm filming pretty consistently, but I just love it. It's very, it's quite freeing. I turn off and I don't have to worry about the edit, the music, or the marketing, or you know, I usually, my brain, when I'm filming workouts, I'm thinking about everything. And the whole business is in my head. But I'm just enjoying the workout.
[ 00:41:17,460 ] Yeah, you get to just do the thing that you do best, plan it, create it. Film it, go home, that just feels so light and easy.
[ 00:41:27,460 ] Yeah, yeah, it's nice, it's really nice. They're all enjoying the workout.
[ 00:41:32,940 ] So, what are you filling your time with in the meantime, with all this space that's been created?
[ 00:41:38,070 ] I don't know— it's such a hard question. You know what? I'm actually doing some personal training, which I haven't done for a while. I haven't had time to do for a while. So I've got a few clients. Wow.
[ 00:41:50,780 ] Yeah. Imagine a big tip haul as your personal trainer, please. It's doing like very quietly. Like I haven't told anyone now. Well, you are now. People are going to be knocking on your door. I didn't want it to get out because I only wanted like three or four clients. And so very quietly doing that.
[ 00:42:10,490 ] Just because I love it and it keeps me connected and it's a bit of fun for me. I'm doing, back to my martial arts roots, of course, I'm doing a lot of self-defense, self-defense courses and things like that. And then I'm also taking a bit of a break. Like I'm just seeing what happens. A little bit like I'm not rushing into anything. I feel like I want to enjoy a bit of a break over the Christmas holidays and summer and just be with my family. Then think about, you know, what's next. But I'm really enjoying my role with 28 and bit of personal training and a lot of the self-defense stuff I'm really passionate about. The personal safety so it's kind of yeah, it's enough for me at the moment.
[ 00:42:54,600 ] Yeah, that sounds amazing. Give it space. Don't you just got to give yourself the space to let it come about organically, not try to, like you said, not try to push and force what's next, but just allow it to emerge.
[ 00:43:06,330 ] Yeah, that's it. And I've worked really hard for a long time and never given myself that moment to breathe really properly and really. Think and create and it's kind of exciting. I don't know. I don't know what's next. Everyone's like, 'What are you doing? What are you up to?' And I'm like, 'Not much I'm enjoying working for 28, and I am just with the kids. So I don't know.
[ 00:43:29,610 ] Yeah. Amazing. I've got listener questions or community questions. Let me just hit you with a few of them, all right? All right. Do you still see the old TXO trainers?
[ 00:43:38,660 ] Oh, yeah. Oh, I was talking to Steph today because she's got bad knees like me and we're talking. She was giving me some good stretches for the ITB and stuff. Like, yeah, I talked to all of them. Yeah. They're fantastic. And they're on 28 as well. All of their workouts are still available on 28. So all of my Texo content is available on 28. And they've all been very supportive and just so gorgeous in the transition.
[ 00:44:02,060 ] I love them all. I love them all. And especially Tash Jack, who I see maybe three, four times a week. She trains me and we train together. So I'm very connected to my trainers, love them.
[ 00:44:14,750 ] Somebody wants to know, have you got any fitness expos coming up? You're planning to hit any fitness expos?
[ 00:44:19,950 ] Oh!
[ 00:44:20,540 ] I would love to.
[ 00:44:21,540 ] I was all ready to go for Fit Her and then I just got an email saying it wasn't happening. So I don't know. Times are tough. And it was an all-female fitness expo. It was fantastic Fit Her. And I did it last year, and all the ninjas came out, and we had like 100 people, and we did all these workouts. It was fantastic. But, yeah, I just got an email saying, 'Sorry, it's not happening.' So I don't know. I don't know what happened there. But if there are any fitness expos happening, I would love to be there and I will be there. So keep an eye out. I'll put in the community, yeah. Cool.
[ 00:44:55,240 ] One of the first questions that I got was, 'I've got the feeling this was a tough year for Tiff.' How is she doing?
[ 00:45:01,310 ] I'm doing well. I'm doing really, really well. Yes, tough year of tough decisions and transitions.
[ 00:45:09,210 ] I'm doing really well.
[ 00:45:10,730 ] Yeah, and thank you for asking. That's really nice, actually. It is. What are your plans for the community, the TXO community?
[ 00:45:19,870 ] Oh, it's living as it always has and it exists as a TikTok community because it's very important that they feel it's like their safe space and their little sanctuary. Sam really understood that too, would never take that away from them.
[ 00:45:34,250 ] I don't have any plans for it. It's just, it will live on. It's living on at the moment. Yeah.
[ 00:45:39,350 ] So do you still like have moderators in there? Are you still managing that or is it just kind of for them?
[ 00:45:46,050 ] Yeah, there's a very small team TIFF in there still. And I'm in there. I'm in there every day, even though I'm not posting as much as I used to. I should get back on that. I will. Definitely, but I'm I'm trying to touch base with them at least a couple of times a week and I'm constantly in there reading all of their wonderful posts. I love it.
[ 00:46:06,630 ] Still doing their little welfies each day. I see them as well.
[ 00:46:10,010 ] Yes, the welfies. Yeah, they're still happening. I love it so much. Yeah.
[ 00:46:16,410 ] Do you have any input into how your content, your recipes, workouts, et cetera, or are portrayed in 28.
[ 00:46:24,810 ] Oh, how they would, like, they haven't changed. So they're transferred over and they exist as they were. So they haven't changed. So, yes, I guess I do, but. They just haven't changed at all. Like they've not been re-edited or cut up or. They just exist as they did before.
[ 00:46:43,879 ] Right. So there might be, like, a different way that you would navigate to find things because it's a different app. Yeah. But they're all just there.
[ 00:46:50,380 ] You search them, but yeah, they're all there. All the content has just been moved over. Yeah.
[ 00:46:55,240 ] This is an interesting one. Both of your perspectives. I think that's me and you. Our perspectives on understanding and navigating the re-emergence of the super thin aesthetic and the preponderance of body checking and glorification of skinny. This is with all these weight loss jabs, right? The skinny thing is back.
[ 00:47:13,210 ] I have seen this. The heroin chic. Oh, for God's sake. Oh, my goodness. It really is infiltrating, isn't it?
[ 00:47:22,340 ] I am seeing it a lot and it's really quite scary because I thought we were building strong bodies and I was really excited when it was all about lifting and strength. And we're getting booties, glutes and arms like Miley Cyrus and all this, like people come to me saying, 'I want Miley Cyrus' arms, I want JLo's abs, I want Beyonce's booty.' I'd be like, 'Oh, yeah, cool.' We've got to work hard. We've got to lift some weights. We can do that. We can do that. But, yeah, lately it's been like, I want thigh gap. I'm like, 'Hang on a minute.' It's like not 2000. What are we talking about?
[ 00:47:55,340 ] Exactly.
[ 00:47:56,810 ] It's scary, isn't it? Yeah, and ballet boobs, the flatness. Skinny ballet boobs and— Yeah, I've heard.
[ 00:48:04,830 ] That's positive for the people who are naturally flat-chested, I suppose. I don't feel like pressure to go out and get a boob job. I've got ballet boobs.
[ 00:48:11,660 ] But, yeah, I do think it's a little bit dangerous to glorify the skinniness and not talk about the strength.
[ 00:48:17,620 ] It's really.
[ 00:48:18,990 ] Yeah, it shocked me that we're letting that in. And look, ozempic and all of that, it does have its place as a tool for those who are morbidly obese. And I think about the contestants I trained on The Biggest Loser and how much that would have helped them, especially with truth noise. And it would have helped so much alongside.
[ 00:48:37,500 ] Good nutrition training and education, and good psychological help with their, you know, I think eating disorders, binge eating disorders, and, and also good training and all those things would work together to magic up really healthy body, but You know, I worry about a Zen pick on its own. I think you need to, for long term, be training and educated in food.
[ 00:49:04,039 ] Yeah, absolutely. And I think there's also some pretty clear research that any of those weight loss drugs, I agree, I think they have their place. I'm not shaming anybody. But they will. Zap bone density and stuff from your body. You've got to be really on it with the protein and the nutrition and supporting what your body needs.
[ 00:49:27,500 ] Yeah, and lifting, which increases bone density.
[ 00:49:30,040 ] So I don't know. I worry about it.
[ 00:49:33,229 ] Yeah, it's a new trend. I don't love it.
[ 00:49:36,240 ] I don't love it. I don't love a lot of things at the moment. I think we've gone backwards in so many areas, haven't we? We have. You know, the sexism and the misogyny that's all come back and then alongside all of this, women trying to be, you know, this nineties thing, like shrink their bodies. Like we thought we'd passed all of that, but it was so easy to just switch straight back. Like, were we really passed it, you know, or were we just suppressing it? Yeah, yeah, diet culture, it's just, it's toxic. It's toxic. Were we just suppressing it? That's what I think. Were people just like trying to get on board with the body positivity?
[ 00:50:11,100 ] Yeah.
[ 00:50:11,740 ] Because it was not cool not to be. But now it's like, okay, well. Now I've got this access to this thing. I'm just going to go as skinny as I can. Anyway, that's a bigger conversation.
[ 00:50:21,350 ] If essentially the rest of the questions are all just, which we've already covered, like, What's next? Like, what's next for TIFF? I don't know. I mean I don't know.
[ 00:52:09,700 ] Tiff, it has been such a pleasure to catch up. Thank you for having me, Cass. Thank you.
[ 00:52:15,890 ] Yeah, so good to see you.
[ 00:52:17,820 ] Thank you so much. And thank you to those who asked questions in the community as well. It was really gorgeous. So thank you.
[ 00:52:24,870 ] Yeah, great to see you, Tiff. No, you too, Cass. And good luck and congratulations on all of it. I mean, I think winner move, selling the business, stepping back.
