Letting Go and Starting Again with Tiffiny Hall

0:00 [Music] Tiffany Hall is a woman who knows reinvention from her roots in elite level martial arts to finding Gladiators' fame and launching a television career to a decade leading her own wellness empire. She has made strength and self-belief her signature. She's also a best-selling author and she's been a leading voice in body positive realistic health for women. For 10 years, she ran her fitness brand TXO helping thousands of women reclaim their strength on their terms. And of course, she was my co-host on this very show when we launched all the way back in 2017.

0:46 Beyond the public spotlight in the decade since Tiffiny first met, she has stepped into motherhood, navigated the highs and lows of postpartum body changes dealt with crippling injuries and chronic illness. Most recently, she has made a bold pivot, selling TXO to 28 by Sam Wood and she's transitioned from business owner to trainer. It is a huge move. It's one that has provoked mixed reactions from her community. And so today, I am so excited to catch up unpack what this change has meant for her publicly and privately and to hear what is next for Tiffiny Hall. Welcome back to Crappy to Happy Tiff!

1:28 Thank you, Cass, for having me. Beautiful Crappy to Happy. It's so good to be back. It's so good to see you. Now even personally, you and I haven't had a chance to catch up for so long. So I'm really having the chance to ask you all these questions for the first time myself. Yeah, yeah. So Tiff, the sale of TXO to 28 by Sam Wood, when you made that decision, what was the inner narrative for you? Gosh. It was a long time coming. It wasn't like he called me and made an offer and I said, "Yes!"

2:10 It was a couple of meetups and our community is so similar and our values and a couple of meetings and wouldn't it be cool if two of the largest fitness apps in Australia joined forces? Imagine the impact that would have on women's health. Oh, that'd be cool. That'd be cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I wasn't ready. That was three years ago, right? Really? That long ago. Yeah. And so we kept in touch. It was very casual. I admired him and what he's done in the fitness industry. I admired him as a businessman, as an entrepreneur. And then the stars aligned and you know how I am with my astrology Cass.

2:54 Yeah, aren’t we both. You know, the stars aligned and it was the right time. And we started talking about it more seriously and I started to think about how I could give more value to my members. What it would mean for my members moving to 28 by Sam Wood with such a huge team behind me and I got really excited about it as the next phase for TXO for growing it, for scaling it. And you know, I had been at the helm of a ship running TXO on my own for 10 years and as a female founder, it's difficult because I don't care what anyone says out there as a female founder you don't get maternity leave, you are still working when you're pregnant.

3:43 You are navigating postpartum with a huge, throbbing business behind you. And for me, that was difficult. I had two kids while I was running TXO and you know, I held it all together, but it comes a time when I really wanted to grow it. I wanted to give the members more value. And Sam Wood, he offered all of that. He offered a bigger team and you know, better tech and I was able to step into the role of being a trainer which I absolutely love on 28 and I filmed so many, so many new workouts for all of the 28ers and the ninjas and that's really exciting to have new workouts out there.

4:27 And I get to do what I love which is being a trainer and really focus on the community and the people and the training. You know, go back to my roots. So yeah, it been really, really good. And I loved running the business. I loved being a CEO. I loved being a founder and that's always going to be with me. And I'm so proud of TXO. I really am. It's been quite a journey. Yeah, you're answering my next question now. I agree. I guess the word is grief because it was grieving for me, you know, giving something that big, that big part of me away.

5:07 It was a grieving process where I feel like I've accepted it now and I'm really excited about the future and I've seen how awesome 28 is and the team and everything. So it's been a bit easier being in it now. But at first it was hard. It was very, very hard to move on because there's been a huge impact. TXO has impacted a lot of lives in such a positive way. But I was really, really proud to have created a business and then to have sold a business. And my kids are at the gorgeous ages of three and eight and I really, really wanted to have more time to be with them and it has brought about a being at all the Christmas concerts and a being at all the, you know, and I couldn't always do that.

5:56 So this year I have and that's really important to me. So it's been really nice. Yeah, it is really nice. I was actually going to ask you through all of what you dealt with while you were running TXO I mean, there was a global pandemic you had... You had awfully challenging pregnancies. You were so sick, you had wrist surgeries. There was so much personal stuff that you dealt with and I was curious to know were there moments over that period where you would have, you know, you had those quiet thoughts like, "Oh, God, I could just let this go. I just, this is too much." Yeah. You know, if it was more of a, something you'd thought about over years or if this was more just like, you know, now, like now's the time.

6:41 There's two things like definitely going through things publicly made me feel very vulnerable. And so I felt pressure. I felt that there are other, I don't know, fitness leaders of apps or whatever you call them, content creators, influencers. They're online all the time, you know, and you feel that pressure to compete to keep up. And I was always keeping it very real and sharing a lot of myself and for real women to keep fit, you know, and it was hard because I felt very vulnerable in those moments and being so public and going through it so publicly and having lots of comments and opinions, it's hard at times and sometimes I thought, "Oh, I just want to throw my phone or my computer."

7:32 You know, in the pool, I just, you know, I just smashed my phone or like, I just wouldn't want to engage with it. Absolutely, there were moments. But the passion for fitness, the passion to help people to discover that power of health and fitness was always stronger than any kind of hardship or vulnerability I was experiencing, if that makes sense. So I always kind of persevered and I always knew that my injuries were my greatest teachers, you know, those things I was going through. Seeing my babies postpartum, all these phases and seasons of life made me a better trainer.

8:12 If I had a stuck in my 20s training, people on the biggest loser, I would never have been such a good coach, you know, I had to go through all of this stuff. I put on 40 kilos with Vada, you know, I think I got nearly 100 kilos and I sit at 45 usually with Vada I really did put on weight So for context you are how tall? You're like five, I'm five three. At a push on your tippy toes Yeah, it was a lot of weight. You know, a lot of damage to my knees and my joints and all kinds of things. And then, you know, I thought I'd never get fit and strong again and then I went through that journey and I did.

8:53 It took me three years. But, you know, all of that made me a better coach. So yeah, there were moments when I thought, oh, I'd really like some privacy right now around when I had my babies or when I was postpartum and sleep deprived and, you know, I still showing up in the community and still running an online business where the primary advertising, you know, was done on Instagram. And so you've got to show up. You've got to keep the engagement going. But at the end of the day, I still did it because I loved fitness and it was always a beacon of hope and light for myself in those vulnerable moments where I would connect through movement myself. And I thought, gosh, even when I was huffing and puffing to walk up the stairs or I was, I hated exercise because it hurt for the first time because I was in a heavier body or, you know, I really realized, oh, this is what people go through.

9:46 This is why they don't love doing burpees. It hurts. And then I was a better coach and I was able to create mum board, which was low impact and great for postpartum and it went off. And, you know, I just, I always worked with the seasons I was in and I think that's what you got to be real and you got to share with people and it always was my saviour at the end of the day. So, yeah, there was never a moment where I thought I would give up TXO So if anything, it was like saving me all the time, that connection. Yeah, well, yeah. And so when it came to the point, like, what was the catalyst then that made you go, no, actually now's the time, like now I'm ready.

10:28 You said three years ago you weren't ready? Yeah, I wasn't ready three years ago. I just had Vada I was, I was really in my flow and I was enjoying that. But now my kids really need me. Life is busy. There's baseball and swimming and gymbaroo and gymnastics and taekwondo and homework and it is nonstop. My kids need me. I'm 41 now and like my husband said, you know, your 41 most pro athletes, like pro footballers retire mid 30s and you're still performing like I'd film lots of workouts in one day, high volumes of exercise. He's like, you're performing at an elite level and you're 41.

11:11 I'm like, I know, I love it. I love it. But my body wasn't holding up as well. I was having injuries. I was having niggles and I just thought, you know, let's take the pressure off. Yeah. Yeah. Let's take the pressure off and I saw this great opportunity to give my members so much more value than what I could have given them at that point in a very competitive industry. And yeah, I leaped at that opportunity. So was this just an arrangement that you and Sam kind of came to together? Always there a, you know, put the business out to a broker and call for, you know, put it up for sale basically that. No, not at all.

11:51 This was just between Sam and I because like if I had a thought, I want to sell the business. That's my goal. I wouldn't even know how to do that, to be honest. The only reason the whole acquisition with Sam would work was because our communities were so similar because our values and our missions were so similar. And I just knew that my, my ninjas would feel at home on 28 and it really was a no brainer. And like They just, they just match perfectly. No other app would sync up with TXO In the same way. So it was uncanny and it was just the right time and the right alignment and I'm a big believer in flow, don't force.

12:38 If you're forcing something, it's not right. Yeah. This just had flow and all of a sudden it was flowing and it was working and then we were announcing and we were launching and it, and I was like, oh my goodness. It was all going very fast and I didn't really emotionally process it. And then after it was all done, I was like, I was so worried about taking care of everyone and making sure everyone was at home and it was all okay. And I didn't give myself any time to really think about it emotionally. You know, so I've done that now and yeah, it's feeling more normal because I only knew TXO I only knew that life.

13:18 But yeah, it's a new chapter now. I remember after that announcement went public and you came to the end with the website switching off like that was a really emotional time for you. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely because you know, mytxo.com, it was like my home screen and everything and then it was odd to not see the branding and to see it all change. You know, it's a big change but we have to change to grow and I needed to grow TXO. I was at that point and I didn't have all the resources that I needed to do that at that time and Sam offered all of it.

14:03 So it was a good one. One of the, I guess, the complaints or the concerns that people in your community had was that they had somehow or other I wasn't even aware of this and I've been around TXO since the beginning but there were people who had a $47 a year subscription and they were locked into that for life. Was that an offer that you put out during the pandemic or something to help people through? Yeah, a long time. We did that to help people and you know, I really wanted people to feel fit and stay connected during COVID and so yeah, it was a lifetime subscription for under 50 dollars. Yeah, under 50 dollars a year as long as they continued to renew.

14:47 So there were people who clearly and that wasn't the only low priced offer that you put out. Yes. Over the years you had put out lots of really low priced subscriptions. Even if they bought some of my apparel or equipment or supplements, they'd earn free time on their subscriptions and things like that over the course of tech so I've always really tried to make fitness very accessible. Yeah. To your detriment do you think? That's not sustainable. Yeah. $47 a year or even 197 or whatever you're charging, 97. That is not sustainable. So when you say I didn't have the resources, looking back, would you have done things differently?

15:28 I think so. I think so. And I put every penny that I made back into TXO, back into the production of the beautiful workout videos and making sure I looked after my trainers and every penny I made and I would probably do it a bit differently, absolutely. But at the end of the day I'm just so proud that so many people got to train with me and I loved that and I just loved the community so much and it is still such a special place. So I've never been in anything like it and yeah, I just would do anything for them. Even if it wasn't making great business sense at the time.

16:09 Yeah, which, you know, I can say this, but I was looking at some of those comments in the community and thinking, my God, like what do you expect? People were kind of upset. I mean, understandably, but also people, we're getting a lot for nothing. I mean, a lot of programs and a lot of content and new content and it's expensive to make content as you know. Very expensive. So, you know, I really wanted to create new workouts for all of my members all of the time, but you just have to have the resources and so yes, Sam would offer that and I thought you are going to get the most amazing programs and workouts from me now.

16:52 Like, I was so excited. Because Sam Wood charges what? He's like 50, 57 a month, right? So he's got the resources. He's got the resources. How did you handle some of that pushback that you got from your community? And I'm not just talking about the people who are begrudging the increased price, but the people who also really felt an emotional connection to you and to the program. How did you manage some of the negativity that you got and alongside your own emotional experience? That was really hard. It was very hard because this is a community that had embraced me and you know, I didn't like them being upset.

17:35 I didn't like that. But you know, change is uncomfortable. But when you have that discomfort, that's when you do grow. That's when you are challenged and I just knew I was doing the best thing for my community. Because if I had just decided I'd had enough, it would have just ended. Like it would have just shut down. There would be no workouts. There would be nothing. There would be no community. It would just shut down. So it was for them to have more value. I could have kept going. I absolutely could have kept going the way I was going and I would have. But this opportunity just, it just was too good to pass up and I just knew that this value would definitely suit my ninjas once they got onto the app and once they experienced it and they got the rest of their time free on 28 to run out their subscription free on 28 to experience it before they had to pay anything before any money.

18:36 You know, it didn't automatically renew on 28. It was all shut down and then they had the free time and they could make a decision whether they wanted to join 28 for $44 for three months. We gave them 70% discount. And I thought, you know, this is a good deal and there's thousands of workouts and recipes and it's just, it's a real monster like it's amazing. It's absolutely amazing. So coming out of the other side of it, like once that initial emotional moment of announcing it, dealing with it, going through that yourself, now that you're settling into your role, not as a CEO, but as a trainer, how's it going?

19:19 It's going so good. Like, you know, I'm back doing what I'm passionate about, which is training people like being on camera, training people and that's what I love most and that's why I got into this. It started in my Taekwondo Dojo, just me and a camera filming workouts for TXO in my Dojo and we did that for years before we went into proper studios or, you know, warehouses and had proper cameras and stuff like it was just me, the Dojo and the camera. And so that passion has never left me and I get to do that now more often. I'm filming a lot more often and I'm able to give my members a lot more new content and variety and it's so much better.

20:05 I just think that's why they're there. They're there to work out. They're there to get strong. The community plays a big part of accountability and support and motivation absolutely, but at the end of the day, you want a really good quality training program and that's what I can provide. I'm a personal trainer, you know. I don't know how good I was at running a business or whatever, but I am a good personal trainer. So that's where I'm doing my best thing. Yeah. You did a lot of it. You did a lot of things. You went through so many stages. I mean, it's a long time, but you went into apparel. You went into supplements. What were some of the biggest lessons? I said that again. And equipment. Yeah. Equipment, of course, equipment. What were, do you think some of the biggest lessons that you learned as a business owner?

20:50 Yeah. Products are hard. Products are hard. I think I learned that. And we did so well with the supplements. Like my community loved the supplements and the apparel as well. Oh, my goodness. It flew off the shelves. I was shocked by that. But at the end of the day with Flex, it was taking too much of the oxygen away from the fitness program. And I just felt like I was modeling active wear and products all the time and not creating content and creating energy back into TXO Life, which was the fitness program and did that for a couple more years.

21:43 And then that's where I came to with Sam Wood again. I'm like, oh my God, I am at a computer all day running a team, running a business. I am not again being a trainer, which is grassroots. What I want to do. So again, I circle back to doing what I love, which is training people. So I'll do whatever it takes to kind of connect with people and make them feel strong in that way. It is such an important lesson. I mean, you're talking about your industry, the fitness industry, but I'm in a completely different industry and I see lots of other people people think, oh, I can make more money or I can supplement my income if I go in this direction. If I add this, if I add that, not realizing that every one of those things, it's a whole separate business.

22:25 It's a whole separate marketing strategy. And it zaps your resources and all of a sudden my team are focused on something else and the fitness program's suffering. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. As successful as all those things were and they were really successful and I moved a lot of stock, I just thought, we're just straying from what I came here to do. The mission, you know, which was realistic fitness for real women and helping women find their fit. So, yeah, I gave up a lot along the way to do that. You mentioned early Tiff that while you were going through some difficult phases, like in there's this pressure in your industry, particularly, you're promoting on Instagram and you've got to be online, the comparison, comparing yourself to other people all the time must have been one of the biggest challenges.

23:16 How did you manage that, you know, to put your blinkers on and stay in your lane? How challenging was that? Well, it was really challenging, but the way I managed to do that was just basically not be online. I had a social media manager, you know, and so what would happen is we'd get content, we'd schedule content, it would go live. I would interact with comments and all of that, do it and treat it as a job and then get offline and I wouldn't be scrolling, doom scrolling and comparing. And that's the way that was the best for my mental health at those vulnerable times, you know? At any time, really. Yeah, you got to like outsource, I think. And it is a job.

23:57 It's advertising, it's a platform, it's the algorithm is hungry beast and, you know, I don't actually have a social media manager at the moment. I'm doing all my own posting and my own stuff and it's probably a bit organic and a bit too raw or whatever, it's not polished. But I've gone through phases of actually going, oh, I'm not dealing with this and I get a social media manager and that, you know, it helps. But I can kind of deal with it at the moment. Like I'm feeling very strong and very certain and kind of content. So I'm not really bothered by being online so much at the moment, but it goes through phases. And I think that's very natural. I think everyone, after gosh, being in this industry of running my own business for 10 years and then being in television before that, I've been online out there in the media for like 20 years now.

24:52 So, you know, it's only natural that sometimes you need a break, sometimes you need a digital Detox, sometimes you need people to not be at you. And I think I'm only human in that I go offline sometimes and then I come back and I think that's okay. I always think no one's waiting for your post if I think that and, you know, no one's missing it. This is what I tell myself to like sometimes you feel that ridiculous. I mean, you've got a much bigger presence, obviously, than what I do. And even little me like you go through these phases where you think, oh God, I haven't posted or I haven't sent an email or I haven't done something. And then you have to tell yourself there is nobody sitting at home pressing refresh thinking "Where's Cass?" Or "Where's Tiff?" Yes, I always think that and it's very healthy, I think.

25:36 You just think, oh, I'll just let it go. I'll just let it go today and I don't know. I just have a different perspective, especially after having the kids just, it just doesn't matter as much. I don't know. It just doesn't matter. What is Ed and the kids noticed that is different about you since you stepped away? I think I'm definitely more present, like I don't have a laptop or a phone in my hand, 24/7. And I think I've got more of a pep in my step and re-found that joy of actually connecting and training and putting programs together and the passion has come back. There was a lot of stress running in business and anyone would tell you that with the cost of living and, you know, it's hard running a business, it's hard running a team and I felt very stressed out a lot of time.

26:25 So I guess not having a stressed out mum, a mum who's enjoying her motherhood is very important. And so I think we're having fun. There have been such big changes in the online fitness space since you launched, right? So we're going back a decade. I think particularly during COVID, suddenly everybody was online, like everything switched to online and every yoga studio suddenly had to have their own online programs and it was this big shift compared to when you started and they were a handful. What advice would you give somebody now thinking that they want to launch an online fitness program?

27:12 I think people like get into it thinking, I'm going to have thousands and thousands of members and I know it's all about the numbers but I would say you've got to focus on the community and for me it was always about the community, like building that strong community. I remember when there was 500 people in there and then there was a thousand and I could not believe it because I was used to teaching taekwondo classes of 60 people and if I had a full class I couldn't believe it. You know and then when there was 500 people in my community I was like, "Oh, it's like crazy, right? 10 classes full." So I just couldn't believe it and then when it grew to thousands and thousands and you know there was connection, there was real connection so it's not easier being online and being in person because you really need to build that connection with the community, that trust.

28:07 Like people don't trust you, they're not going to buy from you and that trust is really, really, really important and so focus on community. That would be my advice whether it's a Facebook community or an Instagram community or however you want to foster that online, it is the most important thing. Community over even just the content and the accessibility and the price, it's the community. And you know on that, a lot of people on Facebook, a lot of people don't want to be on Facebook, they don't want to be in Facebook groups, those things don't have the engagement that they have now that they did back when you started either. So it's a very different landscape.

28:50 It's interesting and I'm sitting back now without the pressure and observing and it is interesting. There's free workouts on YouTube, there's some huge conglomerate apps that I've even been a part of that in a global, you know, to compete with now and it's a really saturated landscape and it's hard. It's really, really hard now and there's a lot of noise and it's hard to stand out. So I don't know, I don't know what the future holds and now there's AI and there's avatars and clones and you can clone yourself to train people and you can train your voice and AI assistants and oh there's so much going on.

29:38 I don't know where it's all going but it's fun to watch and at the end of the day I think you can't fake that connection with people and people trusting you so that's going to be the most important thing I think. So if somebody said to, I want to start an online fitness community and it's easier than ever to create an app now again because of AI but would you encourage somebody now to go down that path knowing what you know about the online fitness space these days? No, I think people are a lot more aware of their screen time and I don't know, I just think it's really hard to be at the top of your game in this industry, really hard and unless you're willing to give it a good decade of like hard yakka, I would say no, I would say yeah, it's really, really tough.

30:38 And considering that your, so your program for example, Sam's program for example, these are not just workouts either, are they? Like even yours, it's recipes, it's meditation, it's meal plan. Right, it's lifestyle is everything for one low price of a very low rate and a high member churn I would imagine like getting members, keeping members. Yeah, retention is really, really important and it's 24/7 and you're online and you're worrying about your members all the time and yeah, you are really, really. Yeah, I do, I used to really stress about them and make sure they're okay and like, tuck them into bed, like put my phone down, you guys okay?

31:25 I was so obsessed with TXO you know, it's been hard to kind of not do that, it's like yeah, it's been hard to step away from it but it was time for me, it really was. Yeah, it was and at the end of the day it is a business and it was a business decision and then you got to separate the two. On a personal level, so you and I obviously we've had conversations, many conversations over the years about you and your perfectionism and you and your people pleasing. Yes. You know, you're the overgiver, you're the overdeliverer, you're clearly the undercharger. Yeah, yeah. What have you learned or what do you still need to learn about that?

32:09 Yeah, I think totally given up the whole perfectionism thing, that's for sure. Like I definitely am more relaxed now and with the kids, I just, like the house is always a mess, is that a point where I'm like, yeah, kind of visitors, it's just like chaos here. And you know, I kind of love it, I kind of it feels so homie and gorgeous and creative, but I still think I need to work on the people pleasing, I guess. I remember someone said to me once, oh, I was talking about my friends and they're like, what, you mean your members in your community that you haven't met?

32:52 And I'm like, yeah, they're like, they're not your friends, they're your members. There's a difference. You know, you got to run a business and I'm like, oh, but it's my community and they're all my mates and it kind of shocked me when they said that to me, but I had to learn, you know, sometimes the hard way, you have to run a business, you got to make hard decisions sometimes, you know, yeah, it's for the health of the business and it's important. So yeah, that was really hard to learn along the way, but everyone learns it in business. It's the only way to learn, you know, make mistakes and keep going resilience. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

33:32 I can remember years ago, wanting to, like, I think when we first met, you and I had first met and I wanted to ask you advice about something. And I remember thinking, no, don't ask and it wasn't because I didn't want to, it was because I know Tiff is such a people pleaser that she will bend over backwards to do this for me to her own detriment and I'm not going to, I think I did end up asking you and I think it was something to do with the book or publishing or introducing or something like that. But it was around that time, but I remember thinking, I don't trust Tiff to say no if she wants to say no.

34:12 And so therefore, I don't know if I want to ask because I think that she will go out of her way. Do you know? But I’d do anything for you Cass though. Of course I know and I love it. But, you know, and I feel like that, I know that about you and so, you know, I managed myself knowing what you would do, but there are people out there who will just ask and ask and ask. Like they won't stop to think. Yeah. Well, there are some people who just don't ever ask, but there are some people who will take advantage. I am getting better at it. I'm getting better at saying no now and like I used to get so many DMs, like I wouldn't even check them because every day hundreds of DMs, right? It was just people asking for advice on different things, health advice, fitness advice, but I went out of that and then I went to a stage where I was trying to answer them all.

34:57 And then I was like, what am I doing? I kind of give out all this free fitness advice, free, what am I doing? And I stopped and so I just, yeah, I have to check myself before I wreck myself a little bit because I will my first, yeah, I always like, I'll help, I'll help. And then I'm like, I'm burnt out and I'm like, oh God, you know, so I need to always check myself. Yeah. I had the same experience in your community too, like in online communities generally because I was in a few of them, 28 actually in the beginning. Yeah, yeah. But you know, people, you're there and I'm a psychologist and the DMs would come through, like it would be ask a question, something to do with motivation or something to do with like emotional eating, all those topics that, you know, I've talked about, but you'd get this like full on people wanting personal therapy session.

35:49 Yes, yes. And I think that's a lot of the $37 a month subscription to a fitness program, like some of the stuff that would come through was insane. Yes. Not insane, but the expectations. Yeah, the expectations. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, you're like, you're free, fodder for everyone because you're online, you're out there, you know, but I now say no to so much and it still sits with me and I'm like, oh, I feel icky. But I say no to say yes to other things like, yes, I just really don't have the capacity at the moment with the kids and stuff. So I have to. Yeah.

36:29 So my question before was what advice would you have for somebody wanting to start an online fitness business? Now I want to ask you, what's your advice for women who might be feeling exhausted from carrying at all feelings stretched overwhelmed, wanting to let something go and struggling with the guilt or feeling like, oh, it's a failure. Like what advice do you have for those women? Yeah, okay. I would say you go go back to your passion, you got to go back to your life. Why did I show up here in the first place? Like what did Tiffiny her late 20s want? And for me, it was always the connection of movement.

37:12 And so you got to go back to your passion. Whatever that is online, there's people doing some amazing things online. But you know, if it's breath work or movement or whatever the music, whatever that is, find that passion again. Because you know, I've had times where I've lost it, I've really lost it and I've just gone, I've lost it from my passion, my motivation, my actual physical body has changed as well. So I couldn't do the things that I loved. There's been times where I've gone like, why am I here? So use that passion as a compass and then you'll never feel lost.

37:53 That's what I always say. And it's okay, let go and walk away if something's not working for you. Yeah, if something is not making you feel like, I say growing grounded or flowing, like flowing with the universe, like it's just not coming too easily and let it go and that's okay. It's okay to grow and change. It's okay to evolve. And I guess you know seasons. Yeah, there's seasons and texts. I was a season. It was a long season of my life, but it was a season and it was beautiful and empowering and I'm so proud of it, but it was a season and everything changes and comes to an end.

38:35 Like I couldn't physically do that forever. So I was going to be teaching workouts in my 50s, 60s with chronic arthritis. I just was like, I don't know. Yeah. It's a tricky one, isn't it? Especially when you are, I mean, you know, because you can step up and be the CEO and have other people do all of that legwork. But when you are the people that they've bought, yeah, they've bought into you and your style and your workouts, it's a challenge. At first, it was Tiff XO. I did the Pilates, the stretching, the strength workouts, the hips, the type one, the yoga.

39:17 I did all of the workouts, right? Then I'm like, okay, not sustainable. So we'll rebrand. We'll rebrand to TXO. It could be Team XO. Who knows what the T stands for? TXO. Bring in a team of trainers and I'll just do a bit of this, bit of that, bit of everything over the top, right? But then everyone's still, you look at the views on the videos and they still want more Tiff and I'm like, no, I want Tiff. You want the others. And it was really hard to transition me out or to try and they're always very hooked on me, which was fantastic and such a blessing and I always loved it, but it wasn't sustainable, you know? So I tried rebranding and it worked.

39:59 It worked. TXO. But everyone's still called it TXO. And yeah, still too old to have it. Yeah. So now in the new world, how much time do you spend filming workouts and making content for 28? So we started with a bang actually. I started filming workouts with Sam Wood. We did some celebration workouts together which were really, really fun. And then I don't know, in February, I've got like four full filming days, which is pretty big, but I can't wait over it in some great programs. Really excited to do more 10 minute workouts, which I think is so great because everyone's got 10 minutes and you can double them up if you want a 20 minute workout, you know, or even triple them up if you want 30 minutes.

40:46 And it's just so accessible for people. So I'm going to feel more 10 minute workouts plus a tone program that's like beginner, intermediate and advanced. So that's all coming up. And yeah, I'm filming pretty consistently, but I just love it. It's very, it's quite freeing. I turn off and I don't have to worry about the edit or the music or the marketing or, you know, I usually my brain when I'm filming workouts, I'm thinking about everything and the whole business is in my head. But I'm just enjoying the workout. Yeah, you get to just do the thing that you do best. Plan it, create it, film it, Go home. That just feels so light and easy.

41:27 Yeah, yeah, it's nice. It's really nice. I hope they're all enjoying the workouts. So what are you filling your time with in the meantime, with all this space that's been created? I don't know. It's such a hard question. You know what, I'm actually doing some personal training, which I haven't done for a while. I haven't had time to do for a while. So I've got a few clients. Wow. Yeah. Imagine having Tiff Hall as your personal trainer, please. You're doing very quietly. I haven't told anyone. Well, you are now. Well, you are. People are going to be knocking on your door You don't want it to get out because I only wanted three or four clients.

42:07 So very quietly doing that. Just because I love it and it keeps me connected and it's a bit of fun for me. I'm doing back to my martial arts roots of course. I'm doing a lot of self-defense, self-defense courses and things like that. And then I'm also taking a bit of a break, like I'm just seeing what happens a little bit, like I'm not rushing into anything. I feel like I want to enjoy a bit of a break over the Christmas holidays and summer and just be with my family and then think about, you know, what's next. But I'm really enjoying my role with 28 and a bit of personal training and a lot of the self-defense stuff I'm really passionate about, the personal safety.

42:50 So it's kind of, yeah, it's enough for me at the moment. Yeah, that sounds amazing. Give it space. Don't you just going to give yourself the space to let it come about organically? Not try to, like you said, not try to push and force what's next, but just allow it to emerge. Yeah, that's it. And I've worked really hard for a long time and never given myself that moment to breathe really properly and really think and create. And it's kind of exciting, I don't know, I don't know, it's next. Everyone's like, what are you doing? What are you up to? And I'm like, not much. I'm enjoying working for 28 and I am just with the kids. So I don't know. Yeah. Amazing.

43:30 I've got listener questions or community questions. Let me just hit you with a few of them, aren't I? Do you still see the old TXO trainers? Oh, yeah. Oh, I was talking to Steph today because she's got bad knees like me and we're talking, she's giving me some good stretches for the ITB and stuff like, yeah, I talk to all of them. Yeah, they're fantastic. And they're on 28 as well. All of their workouts are still available on 28. So all of my TXO content is available on 28. And they've all been very supportive and just so gorgeous in the transition. And I love them all. I love them all. And especially Tash Jack, who I see maybe three or four times a week, she trains me and we train together.

44:11 So I'm very connected to my trainers, love them. Somebody wants to know, have you got any fitness expos coming up? You're planning to hit any fitness expos? Oh, I would love to. I was all ready to go for FitHer. And then I just got an email saying it wasn't happening. So I don't know. Times are tough. And it was an all female fitness expos. It was fantastic FitHer And I did it last year and all the ninjas came out and we had like a hundred people and we did all these workouts was fantastic. But yeah, I just got an email saying sorry, it's not happening. So I don't know. I don't know what happened there. But if there are any fitness expos happening, I would love to be there and I will be there. So keep an eye out.

44:52 I'll put in the community. Yeah. Cool. One of the first questions that I got was, I've got the feeling this was a tough year for Tiff. How is she doing? I'm doing well. I'm doing really, really well. Yes. Yeah, and thank you for asking. That's really nice actually. It is. What are your plans for the community, the TXO community? Oh, it's living as it always has and it exists as a TXO community because it's very important that they feel it's like they're safe space in their little sanctuary and Sam really understood that too. So I don't have any plans for it.

45:36 It's just, it will live on it. It's living on at the moment. Yeah. So do you still like have moderators in there? Are you still managing that or is it just kind of for them? Yeah, there's a very small team Tiff in there still. And I'm in there. I'm in there every day, even though I'm not posting as much as I used to. I should get back on that. I will adapt. No, sure. Not just. So I'm trying to touch base with them at least a couple of times a week and I'm constantly in there reading all of their wonderful posts. I love it. Still doing their little, their welfies each day. I see them as well. Yeah, yes. The welfies Yeah, they're still happening. I love it so much. Yeah.

46:16 Do you have any input into how your content, your recipes, workouts, etc. or are portrayed in 28? Oh, how they would, what? They haven't changed, so they're transferred over and they exist as they were. So they haven't changed. So yes, I guess I do, but they just haven't changed at all. Like they've not been re-edited or cut up or they just exist as they did before. Right. So there might be like a different way that you would navigate to find things because there's a different app. Yeah. But they're all just there. Absolutely. Search them. But yeah, they're all there. All the content has just been moved over. Yeah.

46:56 This is an interesting one, both of your perspectives. I think that's me and you. Okay. Our perspectives on understanding and navigating the re-emergence of the super thin aesthetic and the performance of body checking and glorification of skinny across socials. This is with all these weight loss jabs, right? The skinny thing is back I have seen this. The heroin chic. Oh, for God's sake. Oh, my goodness. It really is infiltrating, isn't it? And I am seeing it a lot and it's really quite scary because I thought we were building strong bodies and I was really excited when it was all about lifting and strength and we were getting booties, glutes and arms like Miley Cyrus and all this like people come to me saying I want Miley Cyrus's arms or want JLo's abs.

47:41 I want Beyonce's booty. I'd be like, oh, yeah, we've got to work hard. We've got to lift some weights. We can do that. We can do that. But yeah, lately it's been like, I want thigh gap. I'm like, hang on a minute. It's like not 2000. What are we talking about? Exactly. It's scary, isn't it? Yeah. And ballet boobs, the flatness like skinny ballet boobs and I guess that’s positive for the people who are naturally flat chested I suppose. I don't feel like pressure to go out and get a boob job I got ballet boobs. But yeah, I do think it's a little bit dangerous to glorify the skininess and not talk about the strength. That's really. Yeah, it's shocked me that we're letting that in.

48:22 And look, Ozempic and all of that, it does have its places at all for those who are morbidly obese and I think about the contestants I trained on the biggest loser and how much that would have helped them, especially food noise. Yeah. And it would have helped so much alongside good nutrition, training and education and good psychological help with their, you know, I think eating disorders, binge eating disorders and also good training and all those things would work together to magic up really healthy body. But, you know, I worry about Ozempic on its own. I think you need to for long term be training and educated in food.

49:02 Yeah, absolutely. And I think there's also some pretty clear research that any of those weight loss drugs, I agree that I think they have their place. I'm not shaming anybody. But they will sap bone density and stuff from your body. You've got to, you've got to be really on it with the protein and the nutrition and supporting what your body needs. Yeah, and lifting which increases your body. Yeah. So I don't know, worry about it. Yeah, it's a new trend. I don't love it. I don't love it. I don't love a lot of things at the moment. I think we've gone backwards in so many areas. Haven't we? We have. The sexism and the misogyny that's all come back and then alongside all of this women trying to be, you know, this 90s thin, like shrink their bodies.

49:51 Like we thought we'd passed all of that, but it was so easy to just switch straight back. Like, were we really passed it? You know, or were we just suppressing it? Yeah. Yeah. Diet culture, it's just, it's toxic. It's toxic. Were we just suppressing it? That's what I think. Were people just like trying to get on board with the body positivity? Yeah. Because it was not cool not to be. But now it's like, okay, well, now I've got this access to this thing. I'm just going to go as skinny as I can. Anyway, that's a bigger conversation. Tiff, essentially the rest of the questions are all just, which we've already covered. Like, what's next? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Tiff, it has been such a pleasure.

50:33 Thank you for having me Cass Thank you. Yeah, so good to see you. Thank you to those who asked questions in the community as well. It was really gorgeous. So thank you. Congratulations on all of it. I mean, I think when I move selling the business, stepping back. [MUSIC] (upbeat music)